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Subject: "Colin Kaepernick is Better than Joe Flacco (Cien Fahey swipe)" Previous topic | Next topic
obsidianchrysalis
Member since Jan 29th 2003
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Mon Jul-31-17 11:30 PM

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"Colin Kaepernick is Better than Joe Flacco (Cien Fahey swipe)"


  

          

TL;DR - One of these players has performed competently in a run-first, deep shot offense where he lined up under center in heavy packages all the time to execute different handoffs. One of these players has performed competently in a shotgun-heavy offense that spread the field and required that he get rid of the ball quickly. One of these players offers an explosive, wide skill set that he plays to consistently. One of these players was still showing signs of growth when he was last on the field.

The other is trapped in the midst of a Matt Schaub impression and will start for the Baltimore Ravens in Week 1.

http://presnapreads.com/2017/07/30/colin-kaepernick-is-better-than-joe-flacco/

Colin Kaepernick is Better than Joe Flacco

July 30, 2017 Cian Fahey 0 Comment Uncategorized

11 quarterbacks have thrown at least 2,000 passes since the beginning of the 2013 season.

Only one quarterback averaged fewer than 7.04 yards per attempt, Joe Flacco at 6.66. Only one had a touchdown percentage lower than 4.4, Joe Flacco at 3.6. Eli Manning threw interceptions more often than Flacco, but only Eli Manning threw interceptions more often than Flacco. Only Philip Rivers had a worse win-loss record.

Nobody cares.

From the beginning of Flacco’s career until his Baltimore Ravens team won the Super Bowl in 2012, he was an adequate starter. He competently complemented a run-first offense on a team where the defense was the foundation for success. The Delaware prospect was forced to start at the very beginning of his career but rarely ever looked flustered. He quickly established himself as the Ravens’ long-term starter.

That Super Bowl at the end of the 2012 season wasn’t just the peak of Flacco’s career. It was a turning point.

Flacco’s touchdown-to-interception ratio, his touchdown percentage, his interception percentage, his yards per attempt and his quarterback rating have all fallen significantly since the Super Bowl. If one was so inclined, you might suggest that the league figured Flacco out and that he failed to adjust.

We typically don’t say that about the Flaccos of the league though. We typically don’t say anything about the Flaccos of the league.

Whether it’s apathy, wilful ignorance or the sheer inability to look past a Super Bowl ring, Flacco has been given a pass for being a bad quarterback over recent years. There are no national radio segments built around his inability to play from the pocket. Nobody is questioning if the Ravens should try to find a way out of his contract. Nobody is asking if the team would have been better off with Tyrod Taylor.

(They would)

That brings us to this week when Flacco was ruled out for the short term with a back injury. He took to the podium to discuss his injury and what the team will do without him. Flacco spoke truth when he said his job wasn’t under threat and he was comfortable knowing that he would be guaranteed his starting spot regardless of who the team brought in. The Ravens aren’t replacing him. That’s not the way the NFL works.

That’s the way it should work.

In a true meritocracy where every team prioritized winning, Colin Kaepernick wouldn’t have hit the free agent market. But now that the situation is in front of us, it’s clear that the smart move for the Ravens would be to sign Kaepernick as true competition for Flacco, not just as a camp arm or third-string backup.

Kaepernick is a better quarterback than Flacco.

Let’s start with raw numbers. Raw numbers can be misleading. They are attributed to the individual player but they are created by the whole offense and they don’t account for the quality of opponent. In spite of that, we’ll start with raw numbers because they are what most people use to craft their opinions.

Over the past two seasons, Kaepernick and Flacco have both suffered major, season-ending injuries while playing for multiple coordinators with limited supporting casts. Kaepernick has thrown touchdowns more often, interceptions less often and averaged significantly more yards per attempt than Flacco over the past two years. He has done that while also adding in 643 more rushing yards.

The raw numbers are clearly on Kaepernick’s side, which is reflected in his quarterback rating. Flacco has an 83.4 rating whereas Kaepernick’s is 85.5.

But like I said, raw numbers aren’t the way to evaluate quarterback play. They just highlight how the relative perceptions of each player is not being established the way it traditionally has been. So let’s look pas the raw numbers and focus exclusively on each quarterback’s performances from this past year.

Over the course of his career, Flacco has never been a top-tier passer. Prior to the Super Bowl, he was a worthy, consistent starter. He was never asked to carry an offense—his first 4,000 yard season came last year—but carried enough responsibility to consistently show off his poise and toughness to stand and deliver the ball in the pocket. Flacco kept his offenses moving by prioritizing the deliver of his passes over protecting his body. He exposed his legs so he could establish a strong base, absorbing big hits while standing tall.

That version of Flacco was more than good enough for the Ravens to win. That version of Flacco hasn’t existed for a while.

Since winning the Super Bowl and signing his long-term deal, Flacco’s footwork has gradually gotten worse. Before his ACL tear in 2016 it had completely fallen apart. Flacco now regularly falls backwards, points both feet in the wrong direction or leaps into the air as he releases the ball. Despite his 64.9 completion percentage in 2016, Flacco’s accuracy suffered massively because of his footwork.

It’s easier to complete short passes than it is to complete deep passes. Obvious, right? Yet, we are generally reluctant to acknowledge the different ways quarterbacks in the NFL throw the ball when discussing accuracy and completion percentage. Flacco’s completion percentage was only so high because of how often he threw the ball short.

Charting for the Pre-Snap Reads Quarterback Catalogue revealed that the 32-year old threw 56.87 percent of his passes within five yards of the line of scrimmage last year.

Only Sam Bradford threw passes short at a higher rate. Flacco was almost 10 percent above the league average. Because he was throwing the ball to slants, curls and checkdowns behind the line of scrimmage rather than repeatedly trying to hit post routes between two defenders 20 yards downfield, Flacco’s 64.9 completion percentage is not actually impressive.

Furthermore, Flacco had the eighth-best failed reception rate last year. He lost a completion on an accurate pass once every 17.23 attempts.

Playing with receivers who aren’t dropping the ball and throwing the ball short almost 60 percent of the time means you should have a bloated completion percentage. The league average accuracy on passes within five yards of the line of scrimmage was well above 80 percent. The least-accurate passer to that yard range was Matt Barkley and he was above 70 percent.

That means even if you are the worst short passer in the league, you would still have the best completion percentage if you never pushed the ball deeper than that range.

When you only consider the placement of the ball and take the result of the play (whether the receiver caught or dropped the ball) out of the equation, Flacco is a subpar passer. His accuracy to five yards was 85.3 percent last year, 22nd best in the league. His accuracy past five yards was 62.26 percent, 19th in the league. By throwing the second-highest percentage of passes within five yards he warped his completion percentage.

Breaking Flacco’s accuracy down further only makes things worse. He ranked 23rd on passes to the line of scrimmage, 19th in the 1-5 yard range, eighth in the 6-10 range, 11th in the 11-15 range, 19th in the 16-20 range and 27th out of 33 passers on throws that travelled further than 20 yards downfield.

Colin Kaepernick had a sub-60 completion percentage last year. He was a much more accurate passer than Flacco though.

Kaepernick had the fifth best accuracy on throws behind the line of scrimmage, fifth best in the 1-5 yard range, 13th in the 6-10 range, 21st in the 11-15 range, 17th in the 16-20 range and 25th on deep passes. Kaepernick was more accurate in four of the six yard ranges and, crucially, ranked in the top five on both short yard ranges. Had Kaepernick thrown as many passes within five yards of the line of scrimmage as Flacco did, he would have had a much better completion percentage.

A massive 55.12 percent of Kaepernick’s passes travelled past the five-yard line. That’s 12 percent higher than Flacco’s. 12 percent of Flacco’s attempts would be 80. That’s two games worth!

Being top five in accuracy to two areas of the field and having those areas next to each other offers the coaching staff a specific area of the field to attack. Being below average in accuracy to every level of the field and being awful on deep throws means the quarterback is always handicapping his coaching staff and forcing them to work around his glaring flaws.

The depth of Kaepernick’s throws wasn’t the only reason he had a lower completion percentage last year. While Flacco lost a reception to receiver error once every 17 attempts, Kaepernick lost one once every 8.49 attempts. Nobody in the league lost completions on accurate passes because of receiver error as often as the San Francisco 49ers quarterback did.

Poor footwork is something strong-armed quarterbacks are more prone to. They trust their arms too much because they get away with more throws than weaker-armed quarterbacks. Flacco’ reluctance to set his feet ruins simple throws and makes tougher throws impossible.

In the below gif he has an opportunity to hit his receiver’s backshoulder down the seam in the endzone for a touchdown. He fears the defender arriving so much that he is falling backwards, releasing the ball off his back foot, even when the defender is a couple of yards away. He could easily have got the ball out before being hit. He probably would have been hit after the release. Reacting like this is the quintessential example of prioritizing your body over your delivery. It’s understandable, the violence in this game is monumental, but it’s not good quarterbacking.

Flacco’s inaccuracy is bad enough to be a fatal flaw on its own. Being a quality starting quarterback in the modern NFL without being efficient is almost impossible. Yet it’s not even his most damaging trait.

Interceptions have been a huge problem for Flacco over the past two seasons. He has thrown 27 in his last 26 games. He threw 12 in 10 games before his ACL tear in 2015 and 15 in 16 games last year. Because NFL seasons are so short and sample sizes of plays are so small, it’s possible to carry bad luck through multiple seasons. Take Philip Rivers for example.

Rivers is not actually a turnover prone quarterback but he’s thrown a lot of interceptions over the past two years. The Chargers have put Rivers in situations where he’s had to force plays behind an awful offensive line over and over again. He can’t take the safe play or the offense won’t function. Furthermore, he has had abnormal misfortune with defenders not dropping his interceptable passes. Rivers threw 26 interceptable passes and had 15 caught last year. 57.69 percent of his interceptable passes were caught last year, only Matt Barkley and Andrew Luck had worse fortune.

The first problem Flacco has is that he throws interceptable passes too often. He threw an interceptable pass once every 21.68 attempts last year. 4.61 percent of his passes were opportunities for defenders to catch the ball. 21 quarterbacks in the league were better at avoiding those plays. Kaepernick was one of them. In fact, Kaepernick threw an interceptable pass once every 47.29 attempts, the second best ratio in the league.

Secondly, Flacco can’t blame anyone but himself for his interceptions. He’s not being asked to make difficult throws. His mistakes aren’t coming when he’s chasing a big lead. His receivers aren’t constantly creating turnovers and pressure isn’t the primary problem. No, Flacco’s interceptions are egregiously his own.

Maybe only Blake Bortles throws more consistently ugly interceptable passes out of all the returning starting quarterbacks for the 2017 season. Despite his experience, Flacco constantly misreads underneath coverage to throw the ball straight to linebackers or defensive backs who are baiting him.

None of these plays came when he was chasing a game and made a good decision based on the situation. None of these plays where him giving his receiver an opportunity to make a play that he didn’t take advantage of. None of these plays were a result of great defensive play design or fast pressure. These are flat-out missed coverage reads. They are mistakes a rookie would be crucified for. Mistakes a 10 year veteran shouldn’t be making.

Yet, most of Flacco’s interceptable passes are as ugly.

These are plays that suggest the quarterback is incapable of executing his offense or reading NFL coverages. If Kaepernick made these types of plays they’d be on a loop everywhere and we’d use them to say he can’t read defenses and needs a specific system to function. Hell, Kaepernick doesn’t make these plays and we still say he can’t read defenses and needs a specific system to function.

We don’t say that about Flacco.

Kaepernick is 29 years old, fully healthy and coming off his best season. He has shown development, growing from a quarterback with a narrow skill set who was reliant on his scheme into someone with a wider skill set who has now shown functional ability in multiple schemes. The criticisms of Kaepernick are outdated. He used to run out of clean pockets, stare down his first read and panic if he had to hold the ball in the pocket. That’s no longer who he is.

In 2016, Kaepernick showed off an ability to make subtle movements in the pocket while keeping his eyes up to diagnose coverages downfield. He showed off poise and precision with his movement in the pocket, he got off his first reads in a timely manner and kept his eyes up at all times. He developed an ability to throw from the left flat, something he never had as a rookie, and made better decisions both in terms of attacking coverages and picking his spots for when to scramble.

The cruel irony is Kaepernick was called a superstar when he wasn’t close to a superstar because of his team’s success. Now the same inability to see the context of his performances is allowing people to argue that he’s a bad quarterback. Allowing people to pit him against second-string and third-string players when he’s a superior player to many starting quarterbacks in this league.

One of these players has performed competently in a run-first, deep shot offense where he lined up under center in heavy packages all the time to execute different handoffs. One of these players has performed competently in a shotgun-heavy offense that spread the field and required that he get rid of the ball quickly. One of these players offers an explosive, wide skill set that he plays to consistently. One of these players was still showing signs of growth when he was last on the field.

The other is trapped in the midst of a Matt Schaub impression and will start for the Baltimore Ravens in Week 1.

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
He's definitely better than Ryan Mallet....
Aug 01st 2017
1
RE: He's definitely better than Ryan Mallet....
Aug 01st 2017
2
      jay cutler is in no way a better QB than Kaep
Aug 01st 2017
14
           RE: jay cutler is in no way a better QB than Kaep
Aug 01st 2017
16
of course he is. still aint getting signed tho.
Aug 01st 2017
3
ray lewis on Undisputed talkin crazy:
Aug 01st 2017
4
Can't take bruh seriously at all...
Aug 01st 2017
5
dude says some of the most cringeworthy shit ever
Aug 01st 2017
10
      I was tempted to call a mutual friend of his and mine...
Aug 01st 2017
12
           but then you realized how cool it is to be alive?
Aug 01st 2017
15
                Not at all! Just realized it is futile to have certain convos...
Aug 03rd 2017
38
Damn Ray
Aug 01st 2017
7
on the flip side I used to not be able to stand Shannon but I'm becoming...
Aug 01st 2017
13
WTF is this other rambling shit???....
Aug 02nd 2017
22
that's how Ray always talks.
Aug 02nd 2017
23
      I mean, I know the extra ultra passion shit...
Aug 02nd 2017
24
           ray always been a company man.
Aug 02nd 2017
29
Crazy is right. Nigga said all those words and made 0 points.
Aug 02nd 2017
26
Ray and Vick signed lifetime contracts with the NFL
Aug 02nd 2017
28
I love Ray...but if you listened to those speeches
Aug 02nd 2017
33
      ha ha, Bomani just brought up this Flacco quote yesterday...
Aug 02nd 2017
35
Not at all!
Aug 01st 2017
6
Does Kap even want to play? Seems we've heard from everyone but him.
Aug 01st 2017
8
He opted out of his contract.....he spoke w/his actions imo
Aug 01st 2017
9
he worked out for Seattle and all word points to yes.
Aug 01st 2017
11
too busy giving his paper to the needy
Aug 04th 2017
41
RE: Does Kap even want to play? Seems we've heard from everyone but him.
Oct 08th 2017
63
I'd murder to have him in Jacksonville.
Aug 01st 2017
17
yep...he'd have little pockets of support...
Aug 01st 2017
18
The article was posted mostly as a starting point for a discussion.
Aug 01st 2017
19
obviously he is good enough to play in the fucking NFL
Aug 01st 2017
20
and Craig Hodges didn't take Dicky Simpkins girl either...
Aug 01st 2017
21
RE: obviously he is good enough to play in the fucking NFL
Aug 02nd 2017
25
exactly, i remember when vick was getting out of prison ...
Aug 02nd 2017
27
this is where it gets on some bullshit
Aug 02nd 2017
30
RE: this is where it gets on some bullshit
Aug 02nd 2017
32
      All 32 starting QBs aren't even better than him
Aug 02nd 2017
34
           RE: All 32 starting QBs aren't even better than him
Aug 02nd 2017
36
you aint gotta worry about Cam doing that here LMFAO
Aug 02nd 2017
31
      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Aug 03rd 2017
37
      haha, Cam better not tie his shoe or pick up a $100 bill while
Aug 03rd 2017
39
           damn i can picture it lol
Aug 08th 2017
46
the article is making the argument that he's a starting caliber QB
Aug 09th 2017
47
his woman's gonna ruin it
Aug 04th 2017
40
That's what Aldon Smith said...
Aug 07th 2017
42
Right.
Aug 08th 2017
43
Yea he's not coming here, we can dead this. Mallet under center Thursday...
Aug 08th 2017
44
he needs to, Mallet is garbage
Aug 11th 2017
48
nessa talking that shit lmfao.
Aug 08th 2017
45
Colin Kaepernick’s film shows there is no excuse for him to be unemplo...
Aug 14th 2017
49
Ray said the deal was about to be done, but....
Sep 06th 2017
50
Ray lying to shift blame? Never heard of that before.
Sep 06th 2017
51
Really Ray!?!?
Sep 06th 2017
52
Hollywoooood ((c) TKO) gonna Hollywood
Sep 06th 2017
53
That tweet hurt the cause more than it helped...
Sep 06th 2017
54
no one would deny that tweet didn't promote good relations, but
Sep 06th 2017
55
"still seriously contemplating signing him"
Sep 06th 2017
58
      RE: "still seriously contemplating signing him"
Sep 06th 2017
60
           They still were considering it until that tweet was tweeted...
Sep 06th 2017
62
RE: That tweet hurt the cause more than it helped...
Sep 06th 2017
56
Folks are done with Ray in Baltimore.
Sep 06th 2017
57
      I can't stand either one of 'em...
Sep 06th 2017
59
Fuck Jason Whitlock, fox and kid from kevin d n play
Sep 06th 2017
61

Warren Coolidge
Charter member
41998 posts
Tue Aug-01-17 12:14 AM

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1. "He's definitely better than Ryan Mallet...."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

and I wouldn't be against him being in the Rams camp instead of Orlavsky, being that I'm not sold on Goff...


but one thing that last season has done for Kap is that it made people forget that prior to last year, he had basically the entire 49er locker room turn on him because of the situation with Alden Smith...

Your QB geeing your less than stable and on shaky legal ground for his mtv girlfriend was just a dick move...certainly not your QB.... that was following issues of him regressing as a player...losing his job to friggin blaine gabbert.....

Kap wasn't well thought of...and justifiably so...prior to last season... He knew that kneeling as he did would risk his career....I respect the fact that he understood consequences....

but lets not pretend that there weren't GLARING issues involving him prior to last year.....

  

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COOLEHMAGAZINE
Member since May 22nd 2007
5563 posts
Tue Aug-01-17 08:39 AM

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2. "RE: He's definitely better than Ryan Mallet...."
In response to Reply # 1


          

He has looked worse in some ways, almost every year since that SB. I was never a fan, and while I think he is good enough to be in the league…Trump supporter, Jay Cutler is a much better player and had to retire because no one wanted the supposed "baggage" of bringing him on.

NFL is full of risk averse dummies and if the prevailing narrative about a player is negative, that is often it. Partially because NFL teams also don't want to have a backup that they think might create some sort of QB controversy.

I'm from the lost black tribe of Israel, the Yos

http://coolehmag.com/frontEnd/

  

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josephmurf2384
Member since Nov 21st 2005
5289 posts
Tue Aug-01-17 03:46 PM

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14. "jay cutler is in no way a better QB than Kaep"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

  

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COOLEHMAGAZINE
Member since May 22nd 2007
5563 posts
Tue Aug-01-17 04:45 PM

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16. "RE: jay cutler is in no way a better QB than Kaep"
In response to Reply # 14


          

He is much better

I'm from the lost black tribe of Israel, the Yos

http://coolehmag.com/frontEnd/

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
85067 posts
Tue Aug-01-17 08:44 AM

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3. "of course he is. still aint getting signed tho."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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BigJazz
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Tue Aug-01-17 09:35 AM

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4. "ray lewis on Undisputed talkin crazy:"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

https://youtu.be/EHTaVawdQBw?t=4m58s





***
I ain't lyin. This shit i'm making up is true...

  

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Creole
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Tue Aug-01-17 11:44 AM

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5. "Can't take bruh seriously at all..."
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

Greatest LB to ever do it while also being the dumbest som'bitch ever.

  

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Dstl1
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Tue Aug-01-17 01:27 PM

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10. "dude says some of the most cringeworthy shit ever"
In response to Reply # 5


          

.

...I'm from the era when A.I. was the answer, now they think ai is the answer - Marlon Craft

  

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Creole
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Tue Aug-01-17 02:19 PM

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12. "I was tempted to call a mutual friend of his and mine..."
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

Wanted to tell the friend to pass along one of two things...

A.) "Tell your man to shut the entire fuck up and stop playing himself!"

or

B.) "Tell your man to shut the entire fuck up and stop playing himself!"

I left it alone and chose not to involve the mutual acquaintance because I'm now resigned to never uttering Ray's name again unless it's to discuss his place in football and Ravens lore. Otherwise, I am going to do my best to ignore topics related to him or his involvement in anything else.

  

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cgonz00cc
Member since Aug 01st 2002
35253 posts
Tue Aug-01-17 04:22 PM

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15. "but then you realized how cool it is to be alive?"
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE

  

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Creole
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Thu Aug-03-17 10:31 AM

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38. "Not at all! Just realized it is futile to have certain convos..."
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

RE: but then you realized how cool it is to be alive?

with people like him. Dude's set in his ways and won't change them anytime soon.


  

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RexLongfellow
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Tue Aug-01-17 12:14 PM

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7. "Damn Ray"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

Dude is on some dumb shit

And the more I see Shannon Sharpe on Undisputed, the more I root for him...dude spits some facts most of the time

  

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ThaTruth
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13. "on the flip side I used to not be able to stand Shannon but I'm becoming..."
In response to Reply # 4


          

a fan

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

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Dstl1
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Wed Aug-02-17 07:19 AM

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22. "WTF is this other rambling shit???...."
In response to Reply # 4


          

smh...did Ray accept the bag?
https://twitter.com/raylewis/status/892444180999544833?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.espn.com%2F

...I'm from the era when A.I. was the answer, now they think ai is the answer - Marlon Craft

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
85067 posts
Wed Aug-02-17 07:59 AM

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23. "that's how Ray always talks."
In response to Reply # 22


  

          

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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Dstl1
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Wed Aug-02-17 08:03 AM

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24. "I mean, I know the extra ultra passion shit..."
In response to Reply # 23


          

but, he basically on Vick...tellin cap to be good.

...I'm from the era when A.I. was the answer, now they think ai is the answer - Marlon Craft

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
85067 posts
Wed Aug-02-17 11:27 AM

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29. "ray always been a company man."
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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bignick
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Wed Aug-02-17 09:30 AM

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26. "Crazy is right. Nigga said all those words and made 0 points. "
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
79586 posts
Wed Aug-02-17 11:26 AM

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28. "Ray and Vick signed lifetime contracts with the NFL"
In response to Reply # 26


          

all lives or GTFOH

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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will_5198
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Wed Aug-02-17 05:30 PM

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33. "I love Ray...but if you listened to those speeches"
In response to Reply # 4


          

a lot of them didn’t even make sense. He meant everything he was saying, but I didn’t know what he was talking about 90 percent of the time." (c) Joe Flacco

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/08/23/joe-flacco-i-love-ray-lewis-but-his-speeches-didnt-even-make-sense/

--------

  

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Dstl1
Charter member
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Wed Aug-02-17 05:41 PM

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35. "ha ha, Bomani just brought up this Flacco quote yesterday..."
In response to Reply # 33


          

I had forgotten he said that.

...I'm from the era when A.I. was the answer, now they think ai is the answer - Marlon Craft

  

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Creole
Charter member
15425 posts
Tue Aug-01-17 12:00 PM

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6. "Not at all! "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Joe:
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/F/FlacJo00.htm

Colin:
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/K/KaepCo00.htm

Colin would be a great backup for us. And if Joe would need to miss extended time, I think Colin could do some damage especially with the vastly improved WR corps we're rolling out there this year.

I'm all in for us signing him and couldn't give hoot about the butt hurt fans who are out there whining now.

  

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Overqualified
Member since May 03rd 2006
4543 posts
Tue Aug-01-17 12:57 PM

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8. "Does Kap even want to play? Seems we've heard from everyone but him."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Streets won't let me chill.

  

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Wonderl33t
Member since Jul 11th 2002
21405 posts
Tue Aug-01-17 01:05 PM

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9. "He opted out of his contract.....he spoke w/his actions imo"
In response to Reply # 8


  

          


______________________________
http://i.imgur.com/v2ye7l2.jpg

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
85067 posts
Tue Aug-01-17 01:31 PM

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11. "he worked out for Seattle and all word points to yes."
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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Flash80
Member since Jan 03rd 2007
6953 posts
Fri Aug-04-17 10:03 AM

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41. "too busy giving his paper to the needy"
In response to Reply # 8


          

kap's content now with being a backup. seattle made the most sense, but sneaky pete obviously chickened out.

  

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j0510
Member since Feb 02nd 2012
2315 posts
Sun Oct-08-17 01:09 PM

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63. "RE: Does Kap even want to play? Seems we've heard from everyone but him."
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

https://twitter.com/NFLonCBS/status/917060568875331584

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
86672 posts
Tue Aug-01-17 05:38 PM

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17. "I'd murder to have him in Jacksonville."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

But they'd murder him in a military town.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

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Dstl1
Charter member
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Tue Aug-01-17 06:21 PM

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18. "yep...he'd have little pockets of support..."
In response to Reply # 17


          

but for the most part...just what you said.

...I'm from the era when A.I. was the answer, now they think ai is the answer - Marlon Craft

  

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obsidianchrysalis
Member since Jan 29th 2003
8749 posts
Tue Aug-01-17 08:34 PM

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19. " The article was posted mostly as a starting point for a discussion. "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

My stance is a lot like many of you - that Kaep is at least good enough to play in the league and that the anxiety and nervousness about signing him has less to do with his play than his status as a social activist.

But I didn't know that Kaep was as good at using the entire field as a quarterback relative to quarterbacks like Flacco who are considered to be intelligent enough to use their minds to maneuver defenses into positions favorable for the quarterback.

His accuracy has always been criticized by pundits as a fault, but it was interesting to note how much he's grown. Like murph71 got at, he hasn't been the same quarterback he was early in his career, but his skills have also improved over the years which is a fact that many pundits have apparently looked over.

It's interesting to note the difference being 'only' a football player makes in the NFL. Most of the stars don't seem to have a meaningful life outside of football, even players who are thought to be more 'intelligent'. There are some fans who are nostalgic for a period of time where athletes were more socially involved with their communities, so when one arises where are his supporters?

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71387 posts
Tue Aug-01-17 11:18 PM

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20. "obviously he is good enough to play in the fucking NFL"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

but is he that much better than the next guy that teams want him despite his "baggage?" it's dumb AF that anyone cares but they do. we are talking about a backup quarterback here, not a starter. craig hodges can buy him a milkshake.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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Warren Coolidge
Charter member
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Tue Aug-01-17 11:56 PM

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21. "and Craig Hodges didn't take Dicky Simpkins girl either..."
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

there's that...

  

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COOLEHMAGAZINE
Member since May 22nd 2007
5563 posts
Wed Aug-02-17 08:08 AM

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25. "RE: obviously he is good enough to play in the fucking NFL"
In response to Reply # 20


          

That's the funny thing, if Cam Newton did this, or Russell Wilson, they would have teams lining up to sign them.

There is more than one narrative about Kap; the kneeling and political activist narrative is the active one since last year, but before that it was that he had steadily regressed as a player and might have just been a system QB.

I'm from the lost black tribe of Israel, the Yos

http://coolehmag.com/frontEnd/

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71387 posts
Wed Aug-02-17 10:01 AM

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27. "exactly, i remember when vick was getting out of prison ..."
In response to Reply # 25


  

          

beano cook was on ESPN News and he said that "if attilah that hun could start at quarterback, there'd be a line of 20 teams trying to sign him." but if he was just a backup, he might have to go play in the CFL. not much upshot for kap to return to a firm #1 position. to me that doesn't mean he doesn't deserve a job but it makes his margin for error a helluva lot finer then if he had taken his stand after going to the super bowl.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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Beamer6178
Member since Jan 09th 2006
6379 posts
Wed Aug-02-17 03:49 PM

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30. "this is where it gets on some bullshit"
In response to Reply # 25


  

          

>That's the funny thing, if Cam Newton did this, or Russell
>Wilson, they would have teams lining up to sign them.
>
>There is more than one narrative about Kap; the kneeling and
>political activist narrative is the active one since last
>year, but before that it was that he had steadily regressed as
>a player and might have just been a system QB.

Cam the reformed mr peanut man and russell the conciliatory won would NEVER do this.

when you look at the backups that have been signed and for how much, it's laughable to say it is anything other than him taking a knee. in a league where a team can never have too many reliable QB options, it defies all rational personnel decision making.

  

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COOLEHMAGAZINE
Member since May 22nd 2007
5563 posts
Wed Aug-02-17 04:28 PM

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32. "RE: this is where it gets on some bullshit"
In response to Reply # 30


          

>>That's the funny thing, if Cam Newton did this, or Russell
>>Wilson, they would have teams lining up to sign them.
>>
>>There is more than one narrative about Kap; the kneeling and
>>political activist narrative is the active one since last
>>year, but before that it was that he had steadily regressed
>as
>>a player and might have just been a system QB.
>
>Cam the reformed mr peanut man and russell the conciliatory
>won would NEVER do this.

Doesn't matter. They could and they would be signed immediately. Because the cost-benefit analysis weighs out from the perspective of a GM. Superstar franchise QB is more important than angry fans or some players grumbling.

Backups, not so much.


>
>when you look at the backups that have been signed and for how
>much, it's laughable to say it is anything other than him
>taking a knee. in a league where a team can never have too
>many reliable QB options, it defies all rational personnel
>decision making.

And this is where the narrative aspect comes in.

Kap is seen as a talented but equally flawed backup

Risk-reward not enough for the conservative scared-ass mind of GMs and coaches.

It's the same reason-albeit different narrative- why a Trump-loving guy like Jay Cutler doesn't have a job.

Is Tom Savage better than Jay? Is Fitzpatrick or Glennon or Semien ?

No…but the narrative is that Jay Cutler is a bad locker room guy and a coach killer, so no one wants that risk, despite how many of his former teammates speak well of him. Hence him ending up retiring.

The NFL is big on narratives, usually dumb ones, and the GMs are very risk-averse so if you come with a big risk, and the potential upside is quality backup QB…not many of these guys are going to bite.


I stand by my statement; if Kap did this after his SuperBowl run, teams would be running to sign him.

I'm from the lost black tribe of Israel, the Yos

http://coolehmag.com/frontEnd/

  

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Beamer6178
Member since Jan 09th 2006
6379 posts
Wed Aug-02-17 05:33 PM

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34. "All 32 starting QBs aren't even better than him"
In response to Reply # 32


  

          

>>>That's the funny thing, if Cam Newton did this, or Russell
>>>Wilson, they would have teams lining up to sign them.
>>>
>>>There is more than one narrative about Kap; the kneeling
>and
>>>political activist narrative is the active one since last
>>>year, but before that it was that he had steadily regressed
>>as
>>>a player and might have just been a system QB.
>>
>>Cam the reformed mr peanut man and russell the conciliatory
>>won would NEVER do this.
>
>Doesn't matter. They could and they would be signed
>immediately. Because the cost-benefit analysis weighs out from
>the perspective of a GM. Superstar franchise QB is more
>important than angry fans or some players grumbling.
>
>Backups, not so much.
>
>
>>
>>when you look at the backups that have been signed and for
>how
>>much, it's laughable to say it is anything other than him
>>taking a knee. in a league where a team can never have too
>>many reliable QB options, it defies all rational personnel
>>decision making.
>
>And this is where the narrative aspect comes in.
>
>Kap is seen as a talented but equally flawed backup >MAAAYBE could recover that early magic and be a quality
>starter in league again]
>
>Risk-reward not enough for the conservative scared-ass mind of
>GMs and coaches.
>
>It's the same reason-albeit different narrative- why a
>Trump-loving guy like Jay Cutler doesn't have a job.
>
>Is Tom Savage better than Jay? Is Fitzpatrick or Glennon or
>Semien ?
>
>No…but the narrative is that Jay Cutler is a bad locker room
>guy and a coach killer, so no one wants that risk, despite how
>many of his former teammates speak well of him. Hence him
>ending up retiring.
>
>The NFL is big on narratives, usually dumb ones, and the GMs
>are very risk-averse so if you come with a big risk, and the
>potential upside is quality backup QB…not many of these guys
>are going to bite.
>
>
>I stand by my statement; if Kap did this after his SuperBowl
>run, teams would be running to sign him.

the NFL has a rabid white male fanbase that is also "wildly" patriotic
so I would take that bet on whether teams would sign a kneeler who was playing at the top of his game.

  

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COOLEHMAGAZINE
Member since May 22nd 2007
5563 posts
Wed Aug-02-17 06:50 PM

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36. "RE: All 32 starting QBs aren't even better than him"
In response to Reply # 34


          

>>>>That's the funny thing, if Cam Newton did this, or
>Russell
>>>>Wilson, they would have teams lining up to sign them.
>>>>
>>>>There is more than one narrative about Kap; the kneeling
>>and
>>>>political activist narrative is the active one since last
>>>>year, but before that it was that he had steadily
>regressed
>>>as
>>>>a player and might have just been a system QB.
>>>
>>>Cam the reformed mr peanut man and russell the conciliatory
>>>won would NEVER do this.
>>
>>Doesn't matter. They could and they would be signed
>>immediately. Because the cost-benefit analysis weighs out
>from
>>the perspective of a GM. Superstar franchise QB is more
>>important than angry fans or some players grumbling.
>>
>>Backups, not so much.
>>
>>
>>>
>>>when you look at the backups that have been signed and for
>>how
>>>much, it's laughable to say it is anything other than him
>>>taking a knee. in a league where a team can never have too
>>>many reliable QB options, it defies all rational personnel
>>>decision making.
>>
>>And this is where the narrative aspect comes in.
>>
>>Kap is seen as a talented but equally flawed backup >>MAAAYBE could recover that early magic and be a quality
>>starter in league again]
>>
>>Risk-reward not enough for the conservative scared-ass mind
>of
>>GMs and coaches.
>>
>>It's the same reason-albeit different narrative- why a
>>Trump-loving guy like Jay Cutler doesn't have a job.
>>
>>Is Tom Savage better than Jay? Is Fitzpatrick or Glennon or
>>Semien
>?
>>
>>No…but the narrative is that Jay Cutler is a bad locker
>room
>>guy and a coach killer, so no one wants that risk, despite
>how
>>many of his former teammates speak well of him. Hence him
>>ending up retiring.
>>
>>The NFL is big on narratives, usually dumb ones, and the GMs
>>are very risk-averse so if you come with a big risk, and the
>>potential upside is quality backup QB…not many of these
>guys
>>are going to bite.
>>
>>
>>I stand by my statement; if Kap did this after his SuperBowl
>>run, teams would be running to sign him.
>
>the NFL has a rabid white male fanbase that is also "wildly"
>patriotic
>so I would take that bet on whether teams would sign a kneeler
>who was playing at the top of his game.

If your contention is that had Colin Kapernick been Russell Wilson, Cam Newton or fuck it, even James Winston he would be jobless today, I would take that bet in a heartbeat.

I'm from the lost black tribe of Israel, the Yos

http://coolehmag.com/frontEnd/

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
85067 posts
Wed Aug-02-17 04:03 PM

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31. "you aint gotta worry about Cam doing that here LMFAO"
In response to Reply # 25


  

          

boy you thought these white folks were flaky on cam before???

let this nigga kneel on the anthem.

they will march on BoA Stadium.

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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Beamer6178
Member since Jan 09th 2006
6379 posts
Thu Aug-03-17 09:35 AM

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37. "^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^"
In response to Reply # 31


  

          

>boy you thought these white folks were flaky on cam
>before???
>
>let this nigga kneel on the anthem.
>
>they will march on BoA Stadium.

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
79586 posts
Thu Aug-03-17 12:02 PM

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39. "haha, Cam better not tie his shoe or pick up a $100 bill while"
In response to Reply # 31


          

that anthem is playing.

I had a coworker FB his kids standing during the anthem IN THEIR HOME before a Panther game.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
85067 posts
Tue Aug-08-17 09:24 AM

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46. "damn i can picture it lol"
In response to Reply # 39


  

          

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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40thStreetBlack
Charter member
27115 posts
Wed Aug-09-17 02:07 PM

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47. "the article is making the argument that he's a starting caliber QB"
In response to Reply # 20


          

>but is he that much better than the next guy that teams want
>him despite his "baggage?"

and that he's better than many starting QBs in the league, not just that he's good enough to play in the NFL as a backup.

___________________

Mar-A-Lago delenda est

  

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Flash80
Member since Jan 03rd 2007
6953 posts
Fri Aug-04-17 09:54 AM

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40. "his woman's gonna ruin it"
In response to Reply # 0


          

https://twitter.com/MusikFan4Life/status/893206063272665088

  

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Warren Coolidge
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Mon Aug-07-17 11:12 PM

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42. "That's what Aldon Smith said..."
In response to Reply # 40


  

          

  

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Beezo
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Tue Aug-08-17 06:57 AM

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43. "Right. "
In response to Reply # 42


  

          

<---
Fuck a sig, my presence is enough.

  

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Beezo
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Tue Aug-08-17 07:14 AM

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44. "Yea he's not coming here, we can dead this. Mallet under center Thursday..."
In response to Reply # 40


  

          

Wish you luck Colin

<---
Fuck a sig, my presence is enough.

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
79586 posts
Fri Aug-11-17 12:35 PM

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48. "he needs to, Mallet is garbage"
In response to Reply # 44


          

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
85067 posts
Tue Aug-08-17 09:24 AM

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45. "nessa talking that shit lmfao."
In response to Reply # 40


  

          

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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j0510
Member since Feb 02nd 2012
2315 posts
Mon Aug-14-17 06:00 PM

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49. "Colin Kaepernick’s film shows there is no excuse for him to be unemplo..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

https://www.sbnation.com/2017/8/14/16058454/colin-kaepernick-film-breakdown-free-agency

  

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Dstl1
Charter member
56228 posts
Wed Sep-06-17 07:59 AM

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50. "Ray said the deal was about to be done, but...."
In response to Reply # 0


          

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/20597810/ray-lewis-said-baltimore-ravens-sign-colin-kaepernick-girlfriend-racist-tweet

https://twitter.com/nessnitty/status/892902143983792128?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fbleacherreport.com%2Farticles%2F2725504-colin-kaepernicks-girlfriend-nessa-diab-tweets-django-comparison-at-ray-lewis

...I'm from the era when A.I. was the answer, now they think ai is the answer - Marlon Craft

  

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magilla vanilla
Member since Sep 13th 2002
18753 posts
Wed Sep-06-17 08:15 AM

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51. "Ray lying to shift blame? Never heard of that before."
In response to Reply # 50


  

          

---------------------------------
Photo zine(some images NSFW): http://bit.ly/USaSPhoto

"This (and every, actually) conversation needs more Chesterton and less Mike Francesa." - Walleye

  

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bnicedh
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Wed Sep-06-17 08:22 AM

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52. "Really Ray!?!?"
In response to Reply # 50


  

          

So right when the contract was about to be extended, ya'll checked his girlfriend twitter account and did a 180!?!? Yea ok...

  

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magilla vanilla
Member since Sep 13th 2002
18753 posts
Wed Sep-06-17 08:35 AM

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53. "Hollywoooood ((c) TKO) gonna Hollywood"
In response to Reply # 52


  

          

---------------------------------
Photo zine(some images NSFW): http://bit.ly/USaSPhoto

"This (and every, actually) conversation needs more Chesterton and less Mike Francesa." - Walleye

  

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Creole
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Wed Sep-06-17 11:24 AM

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54. "That tweet hurt the cause more than it helped..."
In response to Reply # 50


  

          

And my assertion is based on a discussion with the mutual acquaintance I mentioned in #12.

  

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Beamer6178
Member since Jan 09th 2006
6379 posts
Wed Sep-06-17 02:00 PM

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55. "no one would deny that tweet didn't promote good relations, but"
In response to Reply # 54


  

          

>And my assertion is based on a discussion with the mutual
>acquaintance I mentioned in #12.

by the time it was released, had the Ravens minds been made up and them just putting on for show or were they still seriously contemplating signing him?

If it's anything close to the former, I'm gonna call bullshit, plain and simple.

  

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Creole
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Wed Sep-06-17 03:03 PM

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58. ""still seriously contemplating signing him""
In response to Reply # 55


  

          

I still call BS though cuz, if they really wanted him, they would have signed him.

Signing him was still the best move considering Mallett played liked shit because he is shit and ain't gon ever be nothing but shit.

Now, Joe gotta do his thing after nor practicing all summer. Also gotta hope his back cooperates because there's nothing on the bench that resembles a QB.

  

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Flash80
Member since Jan 03rd 2007
6953 posts
Wed Sep-06-17 04:28 PM

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60. "RE: "still seriously contemplating signing him""
In response to Reply # 58


          

>I still call BS though cuz, if they really wanted him, they
>would have signed him.
>

i'm not so sure. i think niggas is being a bit disingenuous about the topic, just 'cause it's ray, whom i'm not denying has become quite the farce. if the harbaughs had convinced biscotti to lean toward signing him, ain't no way a multi-billionare's signing off on anything after he gets wind of that pic.

the redbone ruined it.

would be nice to hear from biscotti though.

  

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Creole
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15425 posts
Wed Sep-06-17 08:48 PM

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62. "They still were considering it until that tweet was tweeted..."
In response to Reply # 60


  

          

Decision sealed at that point.

That's how I understand it.

  

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Beezo
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27560 posts
Wed Sep-06-17 02:16 PM

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56. "RE: That tweet hurt the cause more than it helped..."
In response to Reply # 54


  

          

That's about it

<---
Fuck a sig, my presence is enough.

  

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Castro
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50749 posts
Wed Sep-06-17 02:39 PM

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57. "Folks are done with Ray in Baltimore. "
In response to Reply # 50


  

          

Ed can have a statue.

------------------
One Hundred.

  

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Creole
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Wed Sep-06-17 03:04 PM

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59. "I can't stand either one of 'em..."
In response to Reply # 57


  

          

>RE: Folks are done with Ray in Baltimore.
>Ed can have a statue.

The team didn't like either dude at the end. LMAO


  

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josephmurf2384
Member since Nov 21st 2005
5289 posts
Wed Sep-06-17 06:25 PM

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61. "Fuck Jason Whitlock, fox and kid from kevin d n play"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

That is all

  

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