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Subject: "Greg Oden: Cursed by his body (SWIPE)" Previous topic | Next topic
Creole
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13709 posts
Mon Jul-10-17 12:22 PM

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"Greg Oden: Cursed by his body (SWIPE)"


  

          

I hate when people refer to him as a bust. he never got the chance to prove that he could play or that he couldn't play. Oden's body most certainly betrayed him just as Sam Bowie's did. Too bad we never got the chance to Oden put in that work at the NBA level.

Long read...

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/19868061/cursed-body-was-blessing-greg-oden-headed-back-ohio-state

This is a story from ESPN The Magazine's Body Issue 2017, on newsstands on July 7. Subscribe today!

GREG ODEN HAS a recurring dream. He's playing defense for the Trail Blazers. He blocks a shot and passes to the outlet and sprints downcourt, light and fast and strong. He's three years removed from his last NBA appearance now, trying to build a new life out of the lows of his last one, but in the dream he can still play. He can still run. He glides to the paint, catches a return pass and dunks. Coast-to-coast. The crowd explodes. He feels a sweet rush of adrenaline. Fans love him, and he loves himself -- all joy and no shame.

ODEN IS IN the lobby of the academic support center on the Ohio State campus on a late-May morning, registering for classes to finish the degree he started a decade ago. He lived in a dorm a block away at the time. He remembers returning to Columbus after a Final Four run ended in a national championship loss to Florida in 2007. Most assumed he would leave for the NBA, but he came back to go to class. "I never planned on leaving," he says. Students waited for him outside his dorm. Cars stopped on the street to stare. It took him 45 minutes to walk one block. Oden called his coach, Thad Matta, and said, "I can't get to class." A few weeks later, Oden announced that he would leave for the draft, one of many decisions in his life that wasn't really his to make. Now, 10 years, three major knee surgeries and a failed career later, Oden arrives at the academic support center unnoticed and unbothered, his burden no longer walking to this building but rather walking up it.

THE DAY BEFORE registering for classes, Oden is in the weight room at the Jerome Schottenstein Center on campus, where he once played and now helps the basketball team as a student assistant coach. He places just two 45-pound weights on a bar -- "I've got nothing to prove," he jokes with a shrug -- and deadlifts it, bending and straightening his fragile knees. In between sets, he describes himself as the "biggest bust in NBA history," as if saying it out loud will give him some kind of dominion over the pain of it. Before the NBA, Oden never had a serious knee injury. Not at Sarah Scott Middle School in Terre Haute, Indiana, where he first worked hard at basketball. Not at Lawrence North in Indianapolis, where he won three consecutive championships and was a two-time Parade All-American. And not during his single season at Ohio State, where he was a first-team All-American.


Two lifts into another set, something is off.


"Coach!" Oden hollers, dropping the bar and easing himself to the ground until he lies flat on his back. Dave Richardson, Ohio State basketball's longtime strength coach, runs out of his gym office. He crouches down and lifts Oden's right leg, gently shaking his foot, then pulling hard as if he were tugging a rope, his face reddening, Oden wincing for almost a minute before they both feel a pop of relief.


Still sweating, Oden explains that when he was in sixth grade, he grew so volcanically -- 6 inches in less than a year -- that his right hip detached from its socket. After surgery to place two pins in the joint, Oden enjoyed swinging his gangly legs on crutches down the hallways at school. But though the procedure worked, it left his right leg 8 millimeters shorter than his left. He walked with a bit of a dip, leaving people to assume that he was strutting, acting hard. Over time, his body adjusted, but the hip required the occasional heavy tug when it jammed.


After Oden was drafted first overall by the Trail Blazers in 2007, one pick ahead of Kevin Durant, the team outfitted him with a special orthotic insert to even his legs. "Three weeks later, I'm in surgery," he says. Oden can't prove that the orthotic is the sole reason his body collapsed in the NBA. The wheels were in motion for his body to fall apart the moment he hit his first growth spurt on the way to 7 feet. Everything in his life since has been governed by it.


"And now I'm back here," he says at the gym, "trying to figure it all out."

HALFWAY UP THE stairs, Oden slows for a moment before he hits the final stretch. He's slightly hunched over and for a moment doesn't seem that tall -- then he straightens himself and you wonder how anyone ever got a shot off. He's wearing his own shoe: Nike size 19 in the Trail Blazers colors of white, red and black, a logo of his last name etched into the heel. Once an embodiment of a bright basketball future, it's now a relic. Oden's friends worried when he was drafted by Portland, not just because he had to move to the Pacific Northwest after spending most of his adolescence in the Midwest. His personality always seemed miscast for his body. He was an introvert -- a self-described loner who "goes with the flow" -- who had pictured himself as one day being a dentist or a movie critic. There was a lingering sadness you felt in his company a decade ago, a fragility as he told you he felt "expected and obliged to be the best."


Oden always had tried to reckon with what his body was and could be, its power and potential. When he was a 17-year-old junior, he drew up a plus-minus list about whether to enter the NBA draft or go to college. NBA: "Set for life. Play against the best. Could be all-time leading scorer." College: "Fun. Win national title? Love Ohio State." He lunched with Kevin Garnett and bowled with Peyton Manning and rode in a limo with Baron Davis. But he also "wanted to hide and wanted to be a kid," says Reginald Shelt, an assistant coach at Lawrence North in those years. Oden couldn't disappear off the court, so he sometimes would try to do so on it, content to rebound and block shots. Jack Keefer, Lawrence North's head coach, instated a 15-touches-a-game rule for him. "He never wanted to be a basketball player," Shelt says. "That wasn't his thing. Yes, he played basketball. But basketball didn't define him in his mind."


Former Ohio State assistant Alan Major remembers a jump shot Oden made against Georgetown in the Final Four because it was the Buckeyes' 38th game and Oden had taken just a handful of jumpers all year. GMs nitpicked that Oden didn't dominate the way a 7-footer should, but a perceived red flag was actually a teenager's coping mechanism. "He really needed to be 5-11 and a bookworm," 
Major says.


When Oden got to Portland, his isolation wasn't just that of the introverted. It was the isolation of the injured. His knee injury after wearing the orthotics wiped out his first season. At the beginning of his second year, the team gave him an insert so thick that it pushed his right ankle past the rim of his high-tops. Thirteen minutes into his regular-season debut, he sprained his right foot and missed two weeks. Three and a half months later, he chipped his left kneecap and missed three more weeks.


As Oden's body broke, so did his mind. Afraid of being photographed in public doing anything but rehabbing, he wouldn't leave home, which soon turned into not leaving his bedroom. "I tried to get in my own little cocoon," he says. He would lie in bed all day, living with the dull panic that he was the Sam Bowie to Durant's Michael Jordan. "You're a bust and you can't do nothing about it," he says now. "I'm sitting there watching all these guys get better." Oden went to a dark place. Before he had turned 21, he'd grown used to drinking alone -- there are no fake IDs for famous 7-footers -- and now all of the vices that had been creeping into his life for years took over. His nighttime routine became beer, light liquor, dark liquor, champagne, wine -- "whatever I could get," he says -- coupled with two Percocets, at least two Vicodin and at least three sleeping pills, anything to help him feel less. "It got to the point where I was taking so many pills and drinking just to sleep at night that even if I didn't want to drink, I wouldn't be able to sleep," he says.


Guilty and ashamed, Oden apologized to Trail Blazers management before his 2007 and 2009 surgeries. He was easy to text but hard to get on the phone. "I don't know that he had a trusted male figure in his life that could give him good advice," Shelt says. Oden wanted out. He would look at pills and ask, Does it make you drowsy? All right, I'm taking it. "I was like, 'If I don't wake up, whatever,'" he says.


In 2009, Oden started seeing a therapist. Each session began with 10 minutes of silent meditation. He cut back on the heavy drinking and hired a personal chef. Through the first 20 games of that season, he played well and enjoyed himself, showing flashes of his original promise. But in December, he jumped to challenge a shot by Aaron Brooks of the Rockets. Their knees bumped midair. Oden felt a hollow pop. The Blazers' trainer held Oden's head to the floor so that he couldn't look down at his kneecap, mangled and split. Teammate Brandon Roy hustled to his side and said, "Oh my god," and backed away.

The only thing Oden remembers from the night in 2012 when the Trail Blazers cut him -- after three more years and three more knee operations -- is that he drank enough to not remember anything. The Heat signed him in 2013, but he played sparingly that season, and the team let him walk. Soon after, on Aug. 7, 2014, Oden was supposed to be with the Ohio State basketball team in the Bahamas, volunteering on a summer tour, but he bailed at the last minute. He went to a club with his on-and-off girlfriend at the time, Christina Green, and he coupled beers with shots. They returned to the house of Oden's mother, Zoe, and started arguing. Zoe and a friend of Green's tried to calm him down, but Oden swatted them out of the way, pushed Green onto a couch and hit her three times, according to the police report. The last blow split open her forehead, drawing blood. Oden's mother pulled him off, and Green's friend called 911. Oden also called 911, ordered an ambulance and turned himself in. "I was wrong," he told police, "and I know what has to happen."


Oden pleaded guilty to a felony charge of battery with moderate bodily injury, for which he received probation, a fine and an order to attend counseling and Alcoholics Anonymous classes. Almost three years later, he thinks often about that night, though he can't discuss it in much detail because of the terms of a civil suit. "I just want to be a good example for my fiancée and daughter," he says. He thinks about what will happen when Londyn one day Googles her daddy's name and discovers something much worse than being the biggest bust in NBA history. And he thinks about what he did next, trying to begin a new life.


He moved back to Columbus.


HE REACHES THE top of the stairs, masking pain. He always hurts somewhere -- his knees, his legs, his hip, his back. He talks about goals the way many former NFL players do, in terms of just wanting to be able to walk and to be able to pick up his daughter and to be able to make peace with not feeling right -- not feeling good -- ever again. People sometimes ask if he still plays ball or, worse, look at him with pity in their eyes because they know why he doesn't. He looks like he could play -- until he tries to run. He's on a roster for a five-on-five summer tournament, but whether he'll play is an open question. He loves his identity as a father and husband-to-be, but he needs a professional distinction outside of his current one.


So in fall 2014, Oden started showing up at the Schottenstein Center basketball court. He had a support system -- Matta would let him come to practices and games and be around the guys -- but it was no small feat. A body that once announced his arrival now announced his failures. "I tried to find happiness again," he says. One day, Jake Diebler, an OSU video coordinator at the time, introduced himself. "I'm a big fan of yours," Diebler said. They became friends, and Oden became Diebler's project. He was out of shape, in constant pain, bereft of confidence and still feeling the pressure to somehow right a wrong, both with his career and his criminal actions. He would often cancel their morning workouts, claiming his knees hurt. "Rather than a full workout, let's do half," Diebler would say, and Oden would relent. "He was lost," says Diebler, now an assistant at Vanderbilt. "It hurt my heart to see him go through what he did. But it was also cool to see him go through it."


Oden could no longer rely on his physical dominance, so he practiced hooks and jumpers. By the summer of 2015, he landed tryouts with the Mavericks and Hornets but received no offers. The only chance came from the Jiangsu Dragons of the Chinese Basketball Association. He took it. In the preseason, he injured his thumb, missing three weeks. But he didn't fall apart; he returned to play 25 games. That he had even gotten himself in shape to play felt like enough of a win. "I was actually ready to play basketball," he says. It was more than a chance to walk off the court with a new semblance of peace. It was an invisible victory upon which the rest of his life would be built.

HE ENTERS THE office of John Macko, his academic counselor. Oden sits opposite Macko, knees touching the bottom of the desk. Oden still has a lot of the $24 million he made in his career, but he knows how quickly the life he thought he'd have can disappear. He might coach. Might broadcast. Might go into business. "Who knows?" he says.


Energetic and excited to see Oden, Macko plays a video made years ago in which famous OSU athletes tout the school's academics.


"You seen it?" Macko says.


"I haven't seen it," Oden says.


Oden is the first athlete to appear.


"Oh man," he says, shaking his head. "So skinny."


His old life will always follow him, haunting him, even as he tries to define his new one. He didn't throw away his future; his body broke before he could experience it. He is often asked to give motivational speeches, but he doesn't know what to say. "I don't think I have an ending yet," he says. On the first day of school last fall, Oden stood in line for his student ID card, surrounded by freshmen. Last semester he took a class about NCAA rules and regulations -- a class he lived -- but he still did his required reading. He grinds as if something larger than a degree is at stake.


Macko switches screens, to Oden's student profile.


Oden seems antsy, staring at his accumulated credits. He registers for advanced math and history of sports. Now the number of credits left for his degree appears on the screen. He leans in.


"That's all you've got left," Macko says.


"Oh really?"


He's closer than he realized. He leans back, feeling a little lighter. "I'm chopping away at it." He'll likely receive his degree in two years. He smiles and says, "I need to eat."


He will go next door to a greasy spoon called Hang Over Easy, one of his favorite spots from his first run as a student. People will stare at him as he enters, as he ducks below low ceilings. He'll find a quiet table and relax, ordering both breakfast and lunch. A waiter will welcome him back and give him a card for free food. Someone else will shake his hand and will walk away saying, "That's my man!" Then he will go home and play with Londyn. A good morning will become a good day. But first, Oden walks down the stairs of the academic support center, back to the first floor. His steps are slow and studied, but they are steady, so much easier than the way up.


  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
Glad he's moving on
Jul 10th 2017
1
Sad story.
Jul 10th 2017
2
to me, a bust is someone who gets to play and we realize they suck
Jul 10th 2017
3
Yeah agreed.
Jul 10th 2017
4
it feels like someone does an article about him like once a year
Jul 10th 2017
5
im tired of them...dude is sitting on 22 mil +, young and healthy
Jul 13th 2017
25
"Oden still has a lot of the $24 million he made in his career..."
Jul 10th 2017
6
Is somebody going to do a story on the blazers training staff?
Jul 10th 2017
7
he's a funny, goofy dude
Jul 10th 2017
8
Beating your girlfriend will make you a little camera shy.
Jul 10th 2017
9
I still maintain he's a bust tho
Jul 10th 2017
10
      this is bullshit
Jul 10th 2017
11
      Completely.
Jul 10th 2017
12
           I legit stopped reading at "he was limited athletically"
Jul 11th 2017
15
                LOL!
Jul 11th 2017
21
                like...there are unathletic 7 footers. they don't get drafted #1
Jul 12th 2017
22
                     bruh, dude actually said he wasn't quick, agile, nor could he jump
Jul 12th 2017
23
                          I mean, THIS link was years after the knee surgeries, etc:
Jul 12th 2017
24
      LOL stfu. Also Ralph Sampson is a 4-time NBA all star
Jul 11th 2017
13
      as a rookie the brief time he was healthy he showed he could've easily.....
Jul 11th 2017
14
      I agree with this part....
Jul 11th 2017
16
      LOL
Jul 11th 2017
17
      same. availability is an ability.
Jul 11th 2017
18
      Uh, Hakeem went ahead of Bowie so there's that.
Jul 11th 2017
20
      Dude come on, he was productive when healthy
Jul 11th 2017
19
      He was averaging 8.5 boards in 24 minutes by year 2.
Jul 13th 2017
26
           Honest question - will melmaq come back to this post?
Jul 13th 2017
27

bnicedh
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4557 posts
Mon Jul-10-17 02:31 PM

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1. "Glad he's moving on "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I am sure the pressure to be and do something you truly dont want to do but your BUILT for it has to be a trip. Then to go against yourself just for that body to fail you...I'm glad he got past his demons and making peace with life.

  

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Ryan M
Member since Oct 21st 2002
38632 posts
Mon Jul-10-17 03:10 PM

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2. "Sad story."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

The NBA needed him. He was kinda Embiid before Embiid too - an amazing force, hilarious personality, and a total game changer. But his demons (fueled by his body breaking down on him no doubt) got the best of him. Really sad overall...but good to know he's moving on with his life.

------------------------------
'16-'17 LA Lakers

Lopez. Clarkson. Ingram. Ball. Kuzma. Randle. Pope. Bogut. Nance. Deng. Zubac. Brewer. Ennis.

  

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J_Stew
Member since Jul 06th 2002
21871 posts
Mon Jul-10-17 03:24 PM

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3. "to me, a bust is someone who gets to play and we realize they suck"
In response to Reply # 0


          

of course, it was a bad result for the Blazers compared to getting KD, but dude was good when he played. Shit happens, they also have a horrific medical staff with a history of fucking players' health up.

  

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Ryan M
Member since Oct 21st 2002
38632 posts
Mon Jul-10-17 03:35 PM

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4. "Yeah agreed. "
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

Busts are people like Anthony Bennett. Odens career was a crazy disappointment but he wasn't a bust in a traditional sense.

------------------------------
'16-'17 LA Lakers

Lopez. Clarkson. Ingram. Ball. Kuzma. Randle. Pope. Bogut. Nance. Deng. Zubac. Brewer. Ennis.

  

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Dstl1
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42338 posts
Mon Jul-10-17 04:25 PM

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5. "it feels like someone does an article about him like once a year"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

.

__________________________
wait...y'all goin to Oklahoma???

You can raise a child in a house full of love
but, can't keep him safe in a world full of hate - Oddisee

  

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guru0509
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41442 posts
Thu Jul-13-17 03:50 AM

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25. "im tired of them...dude is sitting on 22 mil +, young and healthy"
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

enough of hte pity party already

-------------------
I wanna go to where the martyrs went
the brown figures on the walls of my apart-a-ment...

  

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auragin_boi
Member since Aug 01st 2003
19140 posts
Mon Jul-10-17 04:38 PM

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6. ""Oden still has a lot of the $24 million he made in his career...""
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Smart man and ='s W for life. All he has to do, which it sounds like he's doing, is heal, be smart and find something he likes to do to focus his life around it.

He has the luxury of not having money force him into that decision. Even with all his struggles, that's a good place to be in life.

<---6 Like Mike!!!

  

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ThaTruth
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84578 posts
Mon Jul-10-17 04:42 PM

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7. "Is somebody going to do a story on the blazers training staff?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

"June 16th, 1971, Mama gave birth to a hell-raisin' heavenly son..."

2014 DAMALI Football Pool Champion

  

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melmag
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18267 posts
Mon Jul-10-17 07:07 PM

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8. "he's a funny, goofy dude"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


sorta like Shaq. I'm surprised he hasnt done the "talking head" thing yet

  

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Ryan M
Member since Oct 21st 2002
38632 posts
Mon Jul-10-17 07:44 PM

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9. "Beating your girlfriend will make you a little camera shy. "
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

------------------------------
'16-'17 LA Lakers

Lopez. Clarkson. Ingram. Ball. Kuzma. Randle. Pope. Bogut. Nance. Deng. Zubac. Brewer. Ennis.

  

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melmag
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18267 posts
Mon Jul-10-17 08:02 PM

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10. "I still maintain he's a bust tho"
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

*ducks tomatoes*


Consider this dude was the best & most hyped big man prospect since Shaq. Yeah his career before injury was short but I don't recall him beasting or anywhere close to it.

I know we're quick to blame the injury but honestly, I dont seem him beyond a 15/8 type player AT BEST from the little I saw. I mean, for any other big man without the hype & promise, those are great numbers, but for "the next great big man", thats a disapointment imo..


How I know?

1) his athleticism was limited. He wasnt particularly quick, agile nor could he jump. dude's game was based ALL on size & strength ala Shaq, but Shaq had the other components too. Oden did not.

2) traditional back to the basket center types were getting phased out. Could he expand his game from under the basket to the perimetr? Hard to say, but normally, players that thrived under the basket for so long have a hard time adapting. how did Dwight Howard turn out??



3) Old man body at 19. I dont know about his conditioning but I dont see how with his already failing body, how he would keep up for 48 minutes/82 games in a decidedly "run & gun" league

Sure he's not to blame for his natural body chemistry, but how does that exclude him from being a bust tho? Yes, there's levels to bustage, but a bust nonetheless. He's a likeable dude we wouldve loved to see dominate, but we didnt, so we make excuses. His story is no different from Raplh Sampson or Sam Bowie whose bodies failed them too, but are quick to be called busts. So is Greg Oden



  

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Rjcc
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Mon Jul-10-17 10:44 PM

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11. "this is bullshit"
In response to Reply # 10


  

          


www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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Ryan M
Member since Oct 21st 2002
38632 posts
Mon Jul-10-17 10:53 PM

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12. "Completely. "
In response to Reply # 11


  

          

It's not even worth going point by point. Dude was a beast when his legs weren't failing him.

------------------------------
'16-'17 LA Lakers

Lopez. Clarkson. Ingram. Ball. Kuzma. Randle. Pope. Bogut. Nance. Deng. Zubac. Brewer. Ennis.

  

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Dstl1
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42338 posts
Tue Jul-11-17 09:59 AM

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15. "I legit stopped reading at "he was limited athletically""
In response to Reply # 12
Tue Jul-11-17 10:01 AM by Dstl1

  

          

.

__________________________
wait...y'all goin to Oklahoma???

You can raise a child in a house full of love
but, can't keep him safe in a world full of hate - Oddisee

  

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bnicedh
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Tue Jul-11-17 11:29 AM

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21. "LOL!"
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

Me too...!!

  

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Rjcc
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86840 posts
Wed Jul-12-17 03:00 PM

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22. "like...there are unathletic 7 footers. they don't get drafted #1"
In response to Reply # 15


  

          


www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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Dstl1
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42338 posts
Wed Jul-12-17 03:35 PM

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23. "bruh, dude actually said he wasn't quick, agile, nor could he jump"
In response to Reply # 22


  

          

.

__________________________
wait...y'all goin to Oklahoma???

You can raise a child in a house full of love
but, can't keep him safe in a world full of hate - Oddisee

  

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Ryan M
Member since Oct 21st 2002
38632 posts
Wed Jul-12-17 03:47 PM

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24. "I mean, THIS link was years after the knee surgeries, etc:"
In response to Reply # 23


  

          

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2VMZ7gRl94

------------------------------
'16-'17 LA Lakers

Lopez. Clarkson. Ingram. Ball. Kuzma. Randle. Pope. Bogut. Nance. Deng. Zubac. Brewer. Ennis.

  

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isaaaa
Member since May 10th 2007
29428 posts
Tue Jul-11-17 12:24 AM

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13. "LOL stfu. Also Ralph Sampson is a 4-time NBA all star"
In response to Reply # 10
Tue Jul-11-17 12:36 AM by isaaaa

  

          

Anti-gentrification, cheap alcohol & trying to look pretty in our twilight posting years (c) Big Reg


Just trying to share the world - www.JySbr.net

  

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ThaTruth
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84578 posts
Tue Jul-11-17 09:57 AM

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14. "as a rookie the brief time he was healthy he showed he could've easily....."
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

put up prime Dwight numbers at the very least

"June 16th, 1971, Mama gave birth to a hell-raisin' heavenly son..."

2014 DAMALI Football Pool Champion

  

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Cenario
Member since Aug 24th 2005
55151 posts
Tue Jul-11-17 10:06 AM

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16. "I agree with this part...."
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

  

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Dstl1
Charter member
42338 posts
Tue Jul-11-17 10:19 AM

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17. "LOL"
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

.

__________________________
wait...y'all goin to Oklahoma???

You can raise a child in a house full of love
but, can't keep him safe in a world full of hate - Oddisee

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
73602 posts
Tue Jul-11-17 10:32 AM

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18. "same. availability is an ability."
In response to Reply # 10
Tue Jul-11-17 10:34 AM by BrooklynWHAT

  

          

if he aint a bust then you can't clown portland anymore for not drafting Hakeem or MJ.

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
68691 posts
Tue Jul-11-17 11:00 AM

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20. "Uh, Hakeem went ahead of Bowie so there's that."
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

as far as availability being an ability, that depends. i think guys who have a lot of nagging injuries, maybe that applies. but if you have a congenital and/or degenerative condition or you sustain a major traumatic injury, i don't think that can be held against you.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
68691 posts
Tue Jul-11-17 10:57 AM

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19. "Dude come on, he was productive when healthy"
In response to Reply # 10
Tue Jul-11-17 10:58 AM by ConcreteCharlie

  

          

bowie was not a bust and only some child looking at the 1984 draft would say so. sampson as a bust? LMAO

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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ErnestLee
Member since Mar 03rd 2003
28366 posts
Thu Jul-13-17 03:20 PM

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26. "He was averaging 8.5 boards in 24 minutes by year 2. "
In response to Reply # 10


  

          


>
>I know we're quick to blame the injury but honestly, I dont
>seem him beyond a 15/8 type player AT BEST from the little I
>saw.


Woulda been a double double lock in 30 minutes.

---------------------------------------------------------

  

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Ryan M
Member since Oct 21st 2002
38632 posts
Thu Jul-13-17 03:54 PM

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27. "Honest question - will melmaq come back to this post?"
In response to Reply # 26


  

          

------------------------------
'16-'17 LA Lakers

Lopez. Clarkson. Ingram. Ball. Kuzma. Randle. Pope. Bogut. Nance. Deng. Zubac. Brewer. Ennis.

  

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