dula dibiasi Member since Apr 05th 2004 21925 posts
Wed Jun-14-17 11:05 AM
"so we talk a lot about lebron passing jorn..."
that's a boring conversation. not really worthy of discussion imo until lebron's career is finished and in the books, and we can compare apples to apples.
here's an interesting conversation: what exactly and specifically in your mind would it take for durant to pass lebron as the consensus current #1?
is it numbers/stats? rings? two-way brilliance? some combination thereof? a significant dropoff by lebron? or is it not possible, and lebron is just automatically #1 until he decides to retire? does durant's free agency decision disqualify him from ever being #1?
thoughts?
___
it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes
3. "When did Durant become the 2nd best player in the NBA?" In response to Reply # 0 Wed Jun-14-17 12:18 PM by Creole
I'm legit asking.
All this season's BS aside.
When did this happen?
Kawhi better!
Maybe I'm partial to guys who do a whole bunch of things well as opposed to guys who are exceptional at one thing.
"Two-way brilliance" - Swiss Army knives are better than a regular old steak knife!
Edit: And you're right about not trying to put LBJ above Jorn right now or until his career is over. Kareem still got both of them beat. They are prolly the three best players to ever do it.
11. "Durant averaged more rebounds and assists than Kawhi" In response to Reply # 3
>Maybe I'm partial to guys who do a whole bunch of things well >as opposed to guys who are exceptional at one thing. > >"Two-way brilliance" - Swiss Army knives are better than a >regular old steak knife! >
And while Kawhi is the better defender, Durant is good on defense too. Durant is exceptional at one thing, but he does a bunch of other things well too.
dula dibiasi Member since Apr 05th 2004 21925 posts
Wed Jun-14-17 12:52 PM
12. "he's been that for a while imo." In response to Reply # 3
finished 2nd to lebron in mvp voting in '10, '12 and '13, and won it in '14.
been top 2 or 3 in most of the aggregate advanced stats (PER, VORP, WS/48) since '10.
>Kawhi better!
durant's a better shooter, scorer, creator, defensive rebounder, playmaker and rim protector. i'd prolly rank kawhi #4 right now behind bron, kev and steph. he's still got facets of his game yet to be unlocked.
>Edit: And you're right about not trying to put LBJ above Jorn >right now or until his career is over. Kareem still got both >of them beat. They are prolly the three best players to ever >do it.
agreed. throw in wilt and earv and you've got my top 5.
___
it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes
6. "Bron has to fall off some" In response to Reply # 0
Until I see that, nothing Durant can do would put him over Bron for me, not with the Golden set-up Durant has. I'm not arguing others should feel that way, but that's how I feel and will feel.
---- bshelly
"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God
dula dibiasi Member since Apr 05th 2004 21925 posts
Wed Jun-14-17 01:14 PM
13. "i think most people feel this way." In response to Reply # 6
like, it's not a matter of anyone passing lebron. he'd have to noticeably decline, and until then he gets the benefit of any reasonable doubt. burden of proof, basically.
___
it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes
42. "I've seen both their highest levels" In response to Reply # 31
I've seen bron's best and kd's best. Bron's is better. Either KD has to get measurably better, which I don't see happening, or Bron has to fall off, as he inevitably will. Absent clear proof of either of those things, my opinion isn't going to change.
Which is a long way of saying, kd's probably going to be the best player within 2 years. At some point, Bron has to slow down. Hell, I suppose KD could get even better.
---- bshelly
"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God
9. "Winning 2 out of the next 3 would start the convo. 3 out of the next 4....." In response to Reply # 0
...would probably solidify it (assuming that LeBron's team doesn't win another title in that time period).
What's a set-back right now is the MVP awards. Durant has one to James' four (plus three finals MVPs). The problem is Durant has spent parts of the last three seasons injured (as well as a few seasons before that). He might have been in the MVP convo this season if he hadn't have been injured.
Now, if he plays 75-80 a season, and the Warriors keep being the best team in the league, he'll have a shot at few more. But he'll need more individual and team hardware before the "> than Bron" conversation would be a legitimate discourse.
auragin_boi Member since Aug 01st 2003 20939 posts
Wed Jun-14-17 01:38 PM
16. "I think the Bron decline is the only answer" In response to Reply # 0
Durant's career trajectory took a hit after OKC let Harden walk. The injuries and not making it back to the finals knocked him about 4-5 yrs out. He'd need to have the best years of his career over the next 4 seasons and they'd all need to end with rings before I could even talk about it. Durant had a shot at #1 all time even but now I can't see him higher than maybe 5-6 and that's if he ends up with 3+ rings.
Dude will be 29 this year. He has an 'outside' shot at it from a career stand point but I don't see him dominating the league at 33 with all the younger guys hitting their primes at the same time.
And Bron is just 'better'. I think we've seen enough of both for that to be a law. From a vs standpoint, I don't think KD could improve enough to be better than Bron right today but definitely in the future when slippage starts to sink in for Bron.
18. "KD is the same age as MJ when he won his first title..." In response to Reply # 16
>Durant's career trajectory took a hit after OKC let Harden >walk. The injuries and not making it back to the finals >knocked him about 4-5 yrs out. He'd need to have the best >years of his career over the next 4 seasons and they'd all >need to end with rings before I could even talk about it. >Durant had a shot at #1 all time even but now I can't see him >higher than maybe 5-6 and that's if he ends up with 3+ rings. > >Dude will be 29 this year. He has an 'outside' shot at it >from a career stand point but I don't see him dominating the >league at 33 with all the younger guys hitting their primes at >the same time. > >And Bron is just 'better'. I think we've seen enough of both >for that to be a law. From a vs standpoint, I don't think KD >could improve enough to be better than Bron right today but >definitely in the future when slippage starts to sink in for >Bron.
We've just seen them head-to-head in the Finals and that's no longer the open and shut case it was once thought to be. Especially late in games.
auragin_boi Member since Aug 01st 2003 20939 posts
Wed Jun-14-17 02:22 PM
19. "KD is not MJ though" In response to Reply # 18
I still think he'll be good at 32-33, just not, dominate the league good.
And yeah, they did go head to head and Bron was the better player. KD did his thing and was definitely the second best player in the series but Bron was better. KD just had a better team.
And you'd get no argument from me that KD is a better closer. That's not Bron's strength. But that's just one point of skill. Bron did almost everything else better than Durant in the finals.
21. "Obviously not, the point is he's in his prime and in prime position on a..." In response to Reply # 19
"GOAT" team with all the major pieces under 30 to make a nice little run over the next 3-4 years at least.
>I still think he'll be good at 32-33, just not, dominate the >league good. > >And yeah, they did go head to head and Bron was the better >player. KD did his thing and was definitely the second best >player in the series but Bron was better. KD just had a >better team. > >And you'd get no argument from me that KD is a better closer. >That's not Bron's strength. But that's just one point of >skill. Bron did almost everything else better than Durant in >the finals. >
Bottom line in crunch time on the biggest stage KD did what he wanted and the self-anointed "best player in the world" couldn't do shit about it but pray for other people to bail him out again.
26. "I think I understand what he means" In response to Reply # 23
When Russy was notching all those triple-doubles people were calling him a stat padding turd. Bron gets some triple-doubles and niggas ready to gape their ass.
________________________________ There are dozens of us! Dozens!
47. "lol you don't see the difference?" In response to Reply # 22
one guy is going out in the first round against a mediocre team and bricking his way through the end of games with iffy ass efficiency. the other guy is doing a triple double on 30+ points and mid-50s shooting, and also contributing more on D. not really hard to figure out.
And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.
50. "He needs some MVPs and rings." In response to Reply # 49 Thu Jun-15-17 03:31 PM by pretentious username
Always amazes me how much we don't talk about MVPs when we're talking about legacy. Bron has 4 and probably deserved more. That number is what puts him in rare company and is why he can be ranked above some guys who have more rings.
44. "He would need to round out his game for sure" In response to Reply # 0
Even though he is a better shooter and smoother offensive player, he's not substantially more efficient on O because he can't get to the rack while guarded as well. He is not nearly the playmaker that Lebron is. His defense has been underrated most of his career but his best is still well below LeBron's best at that end, though LeBron turns it on and off now whereas maybe a couple years ago it was always on. It seems kind of difficult because they are fairly close in age and LeBron takes great care of his body.
And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.
52. "it's already started" In response to Reply # 46
Over the course of the season KD was a more reliable and consistent defender, and I'm pretty sure no one could have predicted that. If Bron has to cash out from time to time to save his legs, he is in a different phase of his career than Durant, who does not.
500 games is a whole career for some guys
>i mean, is a durable lebron going to fall off that hard while >KD is still getting better? if not then they are close >enough.
58. "that's not rounding out, that's getting better" In response to Reply # 44
and therein lies the problem. kd already can do anything on the court, and is as complete a package as we've ever seen among actual human being. yeah, he can get bodied a little, but that just doesn't matter in the nba anymore.
the problem is, he has to improve on almost all non-scoring skills to be at lebron's level. he's already an elite playmaker and, when engaged, defender, and he's a solid rebounder as well, but he would have to get better at all those things to reach bron's peak. and he's not going to, because bron's one of the 2-3 best players who ever lived.
---- bshelly
"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God
65. "exactly, KD rebounds at about the same rate as Lebron, actually higher....." In response to Reply # 62
per 36 minutes, Lebron has the bigger edge in assists, KD has the edge in blocks and is a much better free throw shooter so he's not scared to have the ball and take big shots in crunchtime.
70. "He couldn't do shit with KD in 2012, Lebron's defensive reputation..." In response to Reply # 67
is largely built on help defense and chase-down blocks he's decent but he's never been anything special on the ball. He got a lot of hype off d'ing up Rose in crunchtime in the 2011 ECF but that's about it.
Printer-friendly copy 
Email this topic to a friend
Okay Sports
#/media/File:Firefly.png)
