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Subject: "MLB Hot Stove: Cutch to Washington??" Previous topic | Next topic
Dstl1
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Thu Dec-01-16 12:26 PM

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"MLB Hot Stove: Cutch to Washington??"


          

Appears it's really far along and the deal could be done as soon as today. Damn.

Lot of smaller deals gone down. Lot of rumors.
Encarnacion to Houston???
Jay Bruce could be on the move with Cespedes back. How about Grandy Man?
Cubs sign Jon Jay...preparing for Dexter moving on.
Cards express interest in Justin Turner

Add on and discuss.

...I'm from the era when A.I. was the answer, now they think ai is the answer - Marlon Craft

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
Been real for the Pirates, see you in 20 years
Dec 01st 2016
1
well, it was nice while it lasted.. we are so cheap
Dec 01st 2016
2
Cardinals send Jaime Garcia to Atlanta for prospects...
Dec 01st 2016
3
I hope the Mets hang on to Bruce. He can't be that bad for 162 games
Dec 02nd 2016
4
lol i wanted to make this same exact post yesterday and forgot
Dec 02nd 2016
5
Nats bring back C Derek Norris (traded to Oakland in the Gio deal)
Dec 02nd 2016
6
Ramos ends up on the Rays for 2/$20 million
Dec 07th 2016
14
      Did you see the BPro article on Derek Norris throwing from his knees?
Dec 07th 2016
15
      This is awesome
Dec 07th 2016
17
      right. AL the better league for him.
Dec 07th 2016
16
Beltran to Houston on a 1 year deal
Dec 04th 2016
7
Back after all these years.
Dec 06th 2016
10
Matt Holliday to the Yankees...1/13
Dec 04th 2016
8
Chris Sale to Boston
Dec 06th 2016
9
Cubs close to getting Wade Davis....
Dec 07th 2016
11
Ian Desmond to Colorado, 5/70m
Dec 07th 2016
12
I was trying to piece together the math
Dec 07th 2016
13
Adam Eaton to the Nationals for prospect Lucas Giolito
Dec 07th 2016
18
more than giolito...basically gave up our top 3 pitching prospects
Dec 07th 2016
19
bleh.
Dec 08th 2016
21
This was good for the Sox, right?
Dec 08th 2016
24
      Yep
Dec 08th 2016
25
Aroldis back the Yankees...5/86
Dec 08th 2016
20
good deal for the yankees...i was actually happy they got him back.
Dec 08th 2016
23
looks like Cutch is staying in the Burgh
Dec 08th 2016
22
Giants pitching changes.
Dec 08th 2016
26
Dexter Fowler to the Cardinals....haven't seen contract deets, yet
Dec 08th 2016
27
5/82.5...full no-trade
Dec 09th 2016
28
That's a lot of money, made the most of his year
Dec 09th 2016
29
You should be Jaaaansennnn, YEAH!! (c) back to Dodgers 5/80
Dec 12th 2016
30
Elite relievers have really leveled up
Dec 12th 2016
31
JT back as well. 4/64
Dec 12th 2016
32
Dodgers wouldn't win or be in the hunt for shit without him
Dec 12th 2016
33
Tito Francona right now....
Dec 22nd 2016
34
Especially at 15-20 mil less than what Jays offered
Dec 23rd 2016
35
      lol...right. turnes down 4/80, wanted 5/125, ended up with 3/60...
Dec 23rd 2016
36
*whew*
Jun 04th 2017
37
he wins for the best walk off dance of the year-
Jun 04th 2017
38

Y2Flound
Member since Aug 16th 2005
9819 posts
Thu Dec-01-16 12:32 PM

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1. "Been real for the Pirates, see you in 20 years"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
79594 posts
Thu Dec-01-16 12:40 PM

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2. "well, it was nice while it lasted.. we are so cheap"
In response to Reply # 0


          

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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Dstl1
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Thu Dec-01-16 06:13 PM

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3. "Cardinals send Jaime Garcia to Atlanta for prospects..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

I was just telling a friend today, that the only reason the excercised his option was to trade him. I wouldn't be astonished if Micheal Wacha ended up somewhere else, too.

...I'm from the era when A.I. was the answer, now they think ai is the answer - Marlon Craft

  

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KosherSam
Member since Mar 18th 2004
70132 posts
Fri Dec-02-16 02:04 PM

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4. "I hope the Mets hang on to Bruce. He can't be that bad for 162 games"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I think he finally found his groove again in the last week of the season, and would love to see what he could do with a whole year of batting behind Cespedes.

*Jews you*

"this is okp tho, reading is completely optional" (c) desus

Proceed with caution. I am overtly racist.

<-- In Pigpen we trust

  

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Cenario
Member since Aug 24th 2005
59181 posts
Fri Dec-02-16 02:12 PM

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5. "lol i wanted to make this same exact post yesterday and forgot"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

We are in win now mode...keep him for the year. Conforto will have to wait a year. Grandy not playing 150 games anymore anyway.

Reyes
Cabrera
Cespedes
Bruce
Walker
Granderson
Duda
Darnaud/Rivera/plawecki

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

  

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will_5198
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Fri Dec-02-16 05:09 PM

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6. "Nats bring back C Derek Norris (traded to Oakland in the Gio deal)"
In response to Reply # 0


          

presumably getting ready to let Wilson Ramos walk or resign him for cheap and let him rehab.

--------

  

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Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
10951 posts
Wed Dec-07-16 12:04 PM

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14. "Ramos ends up on the Rays for 2/$20 million"
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

Though the report I read said "up to $20 million" which leads me to believe that the Rays have some time/performance tie-ins on that contract. He was apparently insulted with the 3/$30 offer the Nationals came to the table with shortly before he hurt himself (again).

I loved Norris' game when he was with the Nationals. 2013-2015 Norris was quietly a Top 10 catcher in baseball. 2016 Norris looked like a trainwreck. Rizzo is betting on a bounce back year to bridge the gap to Severino coming into his own. I think it's a worthwhile dice roll

  

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Walleye
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Wed Dec-07-16 12:13 PM

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15. "Did you see the BPro article on Derek Norris throwing from his knees?"
In response to Reply # 14


          

I think it's a free article now. Kind of fun, though it doesn't seem to have helped his CS% in the long run.

In any case, I liked him as a bounceback candidate and hoped the Twins would look that way before Jason Castro turned up. That seems like awfully fast for the bat to crater for a guy that's still kind of young.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=29227

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
10951 posts
Wed Dec-07-16 12:32 PM

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17. "This is awesome"
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

I'm a big glove-to-glove nerd. Thanks for sharing

  

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will_5198
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Wed Dec-07-16 12:32 PM

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16. "right. AL the better league for him."
In response to Reply # 14


          

>shortly before he
>hurt himself (again).

--------

  

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Dstl1
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Sun Dec-04-16 12:07 AM

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7. "Beltran to Houston on a 1 year deal"
In response to Reply # 0


          

.

...I'm from the era when A.I. was the answer, now they think ai is the answer - Marlon Craft

  

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mrhood75
Member since Dec 06th 2004
44717 posts
Tue Dec-06-16 02:10 PM

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10. "Back after all these years."
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

-----------------

www.albumism.com

Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

https://www.mixcloud.com/returntozero/

  

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Dstl1
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Sun Dec-04-16 11:49 PM

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8. "Matt Holliday to the Yankees...1/13"
In response to Reply # 0


          

.

...I'm from the era when A.I. was the answer, now they think ai is the answer - Marlon Craft

  

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Dstl1
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Tue Dec-06-16 01:51 PM

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9. "Chris Sale to Boston"
In response to Reply # 0


          

.

...I'm from the era when A.I. was the answer, now they think ai is the answer - Marlon Craft

  

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Dstl1
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Wed Dec-07-16 08:15 AM

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11. "Cubs close to getting Wade Davis...."
In response to Reply # 0


          

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2016/12/06/chicago-cubs-kansas-city-royals-trade-closer-wade-davis-jorge-soler/95069870/

...I'm from the era when A.I. was the answer, now they think ai is the answer - Marlon Craft

  

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will_5198
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Wed Dec-07-16 11:36 AM

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12. "Ian Desmond to Colorado, 5/70m"
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Dec-07-16 11:36 AM by will_5198

          

about the same per year as the deal he turned down from Washington three years ago. risky to pay for a free-swinger who is already over 30, but good for him for betting on himself in Texas and cashing in.

--------

  

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Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
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Wed Dec-07-16 11:50 AM

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13. "I was trying to piece together the math"
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

He turned down $107 million/7 years at the start of 2014. Then the Nationals bought out the last two years of arbitration, Rangers signed him for a year, and now the 5 year contract. So

2014-2020: $107 million

v.

2014-2021: $95.5 million

2014 - $6.5 million
2015 - $11 million
2016 - $8 million
2017-21: $70 million

Turned down 7 years/$107 and ended up with 8 years/$95.5. So he probably cost himself $15-$20 million, depending on what kind of contract Nationals alternate timeline Ian Desmond could command at 35 years old.

That said, remembering back to April 15, 2016 when he was 2 weeks into the season and hitting .109/.180/.109 while struggling at a new position on a one year contract...things more or less worked out. He bet on himself and lost, but didn't really lose big. At least in the sense that more money than I will earn over the course of my entire lifetime isn't considered big at this level.

  

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Dstl1
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Wed Dec-07-16 05:40 PM

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18. "Adam Eaton to the Nationals for prospect Lucas Giolito"
In response to Reply # 0


          

.

...I'm from the era when A.I. was the answer, now they think ai is the answer - Marlon Craft

  

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Binlahab
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Wed Dec-07-16 10:15 PM

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19. "more than giolito...basically gave up our top 3 pitching prospects"
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

for a marginal CF

i dunno man.


on sabbatical.

does it really matter?

wonder what bin's doing?
http://i.imgur.com/phECCMp.jpg

  

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will_5198
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Thu Dec-08-16 01:47 AM

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21. "bleh."
In response to Reply # 18


          

--------

  

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Deebot
Member since Oct 21st 2004
26762 posts
Thu Dec-08-16 01:25 PM

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24. "This was good for the Sox, right?"
In response to Reply # 18


          

Tell me, I don't know prospects.

  

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Walleye
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Thu Dec-08-16 03:31 PM

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25. "Yep"
In response to Reply # 24


          

People seem to be cooling a little bit on Giolito, but it kind of seems to me the natural dampening of enthusiasm that occurs when a guy who appeared to be superhuman in the minors actually experiences some struggles. The specific issue seems to be fastball command, so it's not like there's been any reconsideration of his actual talent - just the likelihood of reaching the status of big, fat, firebreathing ace. There are only a handful of guys in MLB who are that, and a larger (but still correspondingly small) group in the minors who are projected to get there. Sox gave up a real one with Sale and got a maybe-one with Giolito. He may or may not get there, but even guys with his chance are exceedingly rare.

And they hedged their bets with Lopez and Dunning. BPro had a free article on the deal:

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=30804

Giolito had a rough 2016. There’s really no way to sugarcoat that. His velocity was down for most of the season, eventually confirmed by PITCHf/x data in the majors. He got called up and was absolutely throttled. He couldn’t spot his secondary pitches well. Media reports, including Keith Law at ESPN, suggested that coaches in the Nationals' farm system were altering his mechanics for the worse, and he didn’t always look the part of a top pitching prospect. Although it was a close call, we dropped him behind Victor Robles in our recent Nationals top-10 list, and Jeffrey Paternostro wrote an essay wondering whether he's really a reliever. Whispers circulated about the Nationals themselves souring on Giolito.

Yet at the core, the profile remains the same, and it’s a heck of a profile. He’s down a tick or two in velocity, but it’s still low-to-mid-90s with incredible downward plane. The curve still flashes double-plus, sometimes even better. There’s an average changeup in there when he uses it enough. Wavering command is a pretty big issue right now, but he’s a talented 22-year-old with fewer than 200 innings above A-ball, and a lot of guys at that age and experience have command woes only to figure it out later. I wrote Giolito up a few weeks ago as an OFP 70, still a potential top-of-the-rotation starter, with a likely role of 60 as a mid-rotation arm or high-end closer. That’s a heck of a prospect, still one of the best in the game. The stock is down, sure, but consider the heights from whence it came.

Prospect development doesn’t happen in a vacuum, either. If we accept the premise that some of Giolito’s struggles were due to coaching and organizational factors, he just hit the change-of-scenery lottery. Don Cooper is probably the best pitching coach in baseball for maximizing mechanically-challenged young starters while keeping them in the rotation. That’s not an out-and-out guarantee of success—Cooper couldn’t get much out of Jeff Samardzija, for one, and Carson Fulmer still looks headed to the pen—but Giolito’s suddenly in an organization really well-positioned to mold him into the ace he always could be. It should surprise no one if Cooper rights this ship and has Giolito throwing pills and ripping off 80-grade curves in an American League ballpark near you pretty soon. —Jarrett Seidler

An undersized righty who signed for a paltry $17,000 bonus as an amateur in 2012, Lopez burst onto the prospect scene two years later after gaining strength and physical maturity. His fastball began flirting with triple digits between stops in Auburn and Hagerstown. He has some of the better raw stuff of any starting pitching prospect in the minors, though it isn’t hard to envision him dominating hitters in later innings with his power arsenal. He pitched exclusively as a starter before being shuffled up and down between Washington and the upper-rungs of their system, though his big-league appearances late in 2016 were out of the bullpen. If he can continue developing the consistency of his pitchability and strike-throwing, the ceiling is that of a mid-rotation power starter. That said, his short stature, effort, and high-velocity mix of stuff will bring about rumblings of a full-time conversion to the ‘pen if Lopez falters as a starter down the line.

Lopez’s game is all about overwhelming hitters with big stuff, though it isn’t without effort to his delivery’s finish. His arm speed is about as good as it gets, but there's recoil and noise through his high three-quarters slot. This caused his control and command to waver earlier in his career--and even in the early goings of last season--though he progressively stayed around the zone more as 2016 wore on. Lopez holds a late-bursting fastball sitting at 94-96 (scraping 97-98 at best) late into starts, and can reach back for even more velo on his bests bolts when he pitches out of the ‘pen. His power curveball is in the 80-84 range, showing hard vertical bite. He'll lose control of the curve, specifically, when he pulls off his release point, though a large part of his reduced walk totals stem from an increased ability to land his secondary pitches for strikes. Lopez's third pitch is a split-like change in the upper 80s, showing the power arm-side action of an above-average pitch when he sells the pitch well off his fastball. Lopez will need a third pitch less if he’s working as a full-time reliever in years to come, but all three of his pitches show the raw ingredients to miss bats. —Adam McInturff

The Nationals had two first-round picks last year for the first time since selecting Anthony Rendon and Alex Meyer in 2011, and used the second on Dunning. Florida’s rotation was so stacked last spring between A.J. Puk, Logan Shore, and 2017 top prospect Alex Faedo that Dunning didn’t make many starts for the Gators as a junior. He showed that his turbo sinker and hard curveball can play as dominant pitches in short stints, though evaluators long saw him as capable of transitioning back to pitching every fifth day as a pro. Dunning breezed through eight starts between the GCL and Penn League in his pro debut, walking just five percent of hitters while holding opponents to a .208 average, his heavy fastball generating tons of ground-ball outs.

A wiry 6-foot-3 and 205 pounds with trim features and a tapered lower-half, Dunning’s sinker and curveball both are above-average to plus pitches at their best. His hard, arm side-boring fastball sits 90-94 as a starter, and reached as high as 96-97 working from the ‘pen. His curveball shows shows the makings of a swing-and-miss pitch, working 78-82 with flashes of late, crisp downward action. Working as a starter this summer, he relied more on a changeup; while I’ve seen it play more like his third pitch in looks at Dunning, he’ll flash darting, bottoming action away from opposite-handed hitters. With size on his frame and fairly clean extension out front, Dunning can fill up the zone when his timing is right, and has a best-case ceiling of a reliable back-end sinkerballer with a full three-pitch mix. If his arsenal lacks the depth to turn big-league lineups over, Dunning could move very quickly in a two-pitch relief role. After contributing to a talented Gators team for three years, Dunning is a polished pitching prospect who could debut as early as 2018 if all goes right. —Adam McInturff

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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Dstl1
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Thu Dec-08-16 12:50 AM

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20. "Aroldis back the Yankees...5/86"
In response to Reply # 0
Thu Dec-08-16 12:50 AM by Dstl1

          

.

...I'm from the era when A.I. was the answer, now they think ai is the answer - Marlon Craft

  

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Cenario
Member since Aug 24th 2005
59181 posts
Thu Dec-08-16 09:45 AM

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23. "good deal for the yankees...i was actually happy they got him back."
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

weird.

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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Thu Dec-08-16 09:44 AM

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22. "looks like Cutch is staying in the Burgh"
In response to Reply # 0


          

fingers crossed.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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roamr1
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Thu Dec-08-16 04:12 PM

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26. "Giants pitching changes."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

The Giants obv needed a closer bad...and Melancon seems to be a great fit. Although he's not a power pitcher, he's low risk and really that's what we need. Best part? His name is not Santiago Casilla.

However, the high price means that may be the biggest signing of the off season. I've seen rumors of Jay Bruce, JD Martinez, and even Todd Frazier but those seem unlikely.

It will be interesting how the rest of the pen unfolds w/ them not signing any of the core guys left (Javy, Romo, Casilla).

Also, Heston traded for a player to be named...

  

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Dstl1
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Thu Dec-08-16 09:22 PM

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27. "Dexter Fowler to the Cardinals....haven't seen contract deets, yet"
In response to Reply # 0


          

.

...I'm from the era when A.I. was the answer, now they think ai is the answer - Marlon Craft

  

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Dstl1
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Fri Dec-09-16 12:22 PM

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28. "5/82.5...full no-trade"
In response to Reply # 27


          

.

...I'm from the era when A.I. was the answer, now they think ai is the answer - Marlon Craft

  

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DeepAztheRoot
Member since Dec 19th 2003
13992 posts
Fri Dec-09-16 01:24 PM

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29. "That's a lot of money, made the most of his year"
In response to Reply # 27


  

          

Not sure where the Jays go at this point....but not too disappointed they didn't go that high

<-Fear Ameer

  

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Dstl1
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Mon Dec-12-16 01:58 PM

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30. "You should be Jaaaansennnn, YEAH!! (c) back to Dodgers 5/80"
In response to Reply # 0


          

.

...I'm from the era when A.I. was the answer, now they think ai is the answer - Marlon Craft

  

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Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
10951 posts
Mon Dec-12-16 08:17 PM

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31. "Elite relievers have really leveled up"
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

The fact that none of the big time reliever contracts up to this point have worked out has not deterred teams at this point from spending more money. Nobody had ever gotten more than $50 million before this season and now three guys have AAVs over $15 million for 4+ years.

Top 10 relief pitcher contracts by total amount (not including options):

2016: Aroldis Chapman - 5 years/$86 million
2016: Kenley Jansen - 5 years/$80 million
2016: Mark Melancon - 4 years/$62 million
2012: Jonathan Papelbon - 4 years/$50 million# (4.8 fWAR/8.6 WPA/256 G/261.1 IP/130 S/163 ERA+)
2008: Joe Nathan - 4 years/$47 million (3.5 fWAR/7.6 WPA/186 G/181 IP/100 S/171 ERA+)
2006: BJ Ryan - 5 years/$47 million (2.8 fWAR/4.3 WPA/155 G/155.1 IP/75 S/151 ERA+)
2015: David Robertson - 4 years/$46 million* (2.9 fWAR/1.5 WPA/122 G/125.2 IP/71 S/115 ERA+)
2006: Billy Wagner - 4 years/$43 million (5 fWAR/5.8 WPA/198 G/203.1 IP/101 S/186 ERA+)
2014: Craig Kimbrel* - 4 years/$42 million* (5.0 fWAR/6.9 WPA/181 G/174 IP/117 S/159 ERA+)
2009: Brad Lidge - 3 years/$37.5 million (-0.1 fWAR/-2.4 WPA/142 G/123.2 IP/59 S/87 ERA+)
2009: Francisco Rodriguez - 3 years/$37 million (3.4 fWAR/3.2 WPA/196 G/197 IP/83 S/137 ERA+)

*Middle of the contract
#Papelbon had his option picked up when he was traded to the Nationals in 2015 so the contract ended up being 5/$61

  

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LA2Philly
Member since Oct 18th 2004
41249 posts
Mon Dec-12-16 10:07 PM

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32. "JT back as well. 4/64 "
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

Love that deal

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

  

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justin_scott
Charter member
19864 posts
Mon Dec-12-16 10:11 PM

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33. "Dodgers wouldn't win or be in the hunt for shit without him"
In response to Reply # 30


          

.

************************************************************

  

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Dstl1
Charter member
56230 posts
Thu Dec-22-16 09:51 PM

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34. "Tito Francona right now...."
In response to Reply # 0


          

https://youtu.be/vna3HpGohDg?t=38

...I'm from the era when A.I. was the answer, now they think ai is the answer - Marlon Craft

  

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DeepAztheRoot
Member since Dec 19th 2003
13992 posts
Fri Dec-23-16 01:26 PM

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35. "Especially at 15-20 mil less than what Jays offered"
In response to Reply # 34


  

          

EE's agent is probably not employed long

<-Fear Ameer

  

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Dstl1
Charter member
56230 posts
Fri Dec-23-16 02:19 PM

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36. "lol...right. turnes down 4/80, wanted 5/125, ended up with 3/60..."
In response to Reply # 35


          

not that that's anything to sneeze at.

...I'm from the era when A.I. was the answer, now they think ai is the answer - Marlon Craft

  

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will_5198
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63108 posts
Sun Jun-04-17 08:32 PM

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37. "*whew*"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Nats lucky this never materialized. or maybe it was just smoke to begin with. but Cutch is playing even worse than last year.

amazing how his OPS has plummeted 250 points since 2014, in his age 28, 29 and 30 seasons. who would've saw that coming.

--------

  

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kinetic94761180
Member since Jul 05th 2002
17857 posts
Sun Jun-04-17 09:17 PM

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38. "he wins for the best walk off dance of the year-"
In response to Reply # 37
Sun Jun-04-17 09:18 PM by kinetic94761180

  

          

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtkDEjikWKw

i just realized it was a real dance, too.

i'm old.

_____________
if racism is a cancer, black thought is the answer.

Rjcc is code for "bitch-ass troll"

DROkayplayer™

  

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