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Subject: "Over the Under: Chicago Bulls 2016/2017 Season post" Previous topic | Next topic
auragin_boi
Member since Aug 01st 2003
20939 posts
Mon Oct-03-16 03:23 PM

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"Over the Under: Chicago Bulls 2016/2017 Season post"


  

          

Ok, so the FO cleared out the old guard and is making way for Jimmy and Hoi to lead us. Didn't want to blow it up so brought in 2 vets with Championship experience though both are on the wrong side of 30.

They want Rondo to shoot 3's.
They want Wade to shoot 3's.

Welp, so much for Hoi putting together a system to max the strength of his roster. (Hope I'm wrong).

I've seen us predicted to win 38-39 games this year by a few sources.

Personally, I think we'll be in the mid/upper 40's/low 50's given health.

Season is upon us Bulls Nation...whaddup?

(first preseason game tonight vs the bucks too)

____________

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
cmon.
Oct 03rd 2016
1
If y'all have learned anything about me over my time here
Oct 03rd 2016
7
^noted.
Nov 01st 2016
50
Speak now or forever hold your peace.
Oct 03rd 2016
2
the only positive imo of forgoing the full rebuild
Oct 03rd 2016
4
I definitely thought this was the move.
Oct 03rd 2016
8
RE: the only positive imo of forgoing the full rebuild
Oct 03rd 2016
12
oh and i'll be there on the 4th too.
Oct 03rd 2016
5
my problem is we never know what we're gonna get.
Nov 15th 2016
66
Low 50's???
Oct 03rd 2016
3
RE: Over the Under: Chicago Bulls 2016/2017 Season post
Oct 03rd 2016
6
trying to predict anything about this team is not worth the brain strain
Oct 03rd 2016
9
They'll at least get to rd 2 of the playoffs.
Oct 03rd 2016
10
WOW. Bold prediction.
Oct 03rd 2016
13
Who does Boston have? Like seriously.
Oct 04th 2016
18
      I'm not waiting on them to be any team.
Oct 04th 2016
21
           RE: I'm not waiting on them to be any team.
Oct 04th 2016
24
^^^Their ceiling
Oct 04th 2016
14
Indy and Tor are head and shoulders better
Oct 04th 2016
16
Weird that you put Detroit in that tier when they got SWEPT
Oct 04th 2016
17
      Only if talent, youth, athleticism, depth, and coaching dont matter
Oct 04th 2016
27
I got Cleveland-----> Charlotte & Indy ----> the rest
Oct 04th 2016
19
      Charlotte? Didn't they just lose like half their offense?
Oct 04th 2016
22
      Who'd they lose? Lin & Lee?
Oct 04th 2016
23
           And Jefferson
Oct 04th 2016
25
      lulz. you and a_b both wilding.
Oct 04th 2016
26
FACTS!
Nov 03rd 2016
54
https://media.tenor.co/images/ef1a03dc0bd219098bfc6fdff8a119ad/tenor.gif
Apr 19th 2017
110
      ha
Apr 19th 2017
111
RE: Over the Under: Chicago Bulls 2016/2017 Season post
Oct 03rd 2016
11
Thoughts on the first preseason game:
Oct 04th 2016
15
I think Mirotic will come around.
Oct 04th 2016
20
theringer.com previews the season:
Oct 06th 2016
28
courtside tonight. wade and rondo looked good, man.
Oct 15th 2016
29
Snell for Carter-Williams trade being discussed.
Oct 15th 2016
30
I like this for Snell
Oct 15th 2016
31
The Bucks need a shooter.
Oct 16th 2016
36
finally
Oct 16th 2016
32
So, Kidd turned Brandon Knight into Tony Snell?
Oct 16th 2016
33
Do it. No brainer.
Oct 16th 2016
34
It's done
Oct 16th 2016
35
I'm awaiting a larger sample size...
Oct 30th 2016
37
It's still early...but I'm seeing good signs
Oct 31st 2016
38
I've been saying 45-50 wins for this team***
Oct 31st 2016
39
Ok...can't take too much stock in a W over brooklyn but
Nov 01st 2016
40
http://tinyurl.com/q8p7m5p
Nov 01st 2016
41
mcw/valentine
Nov 01st 2016
42
*looks at offensive numbers* *remembers the Hoiberg skeptics*
Nov 01st 2016
43
gonna take this moment to puff my chest a lil
Nov 01st 2016
44
Yep.
Nov 01st 2016
45
this is all great stuff n/m
Nov 01st 2016
46
RE: Yep.
Nov 01st 2016
52
Eeehh...slow down kemosabe
Nov 02nd 2016
53
      So do they fit or not?
Nov 03rd 2016
57
           Ok, let me be more clear
Nov 04th 2016
60
                Okay.
Nov 04th 2016
61
                     RE: Okay.
Nov 04th 2016
62
+1
Nov 01st 2016
47
      Interesting
Nov 01st 2016
48
<--- admitted skeptic.
Nov 01st 2016
51
Just in case I see people trying to be friends
Nov 01st 2016
49
1st L in Boston
Nov 03rd 2016
55
wide open layup opportunity, nary a rotating defender in sight
Nov 03rd 2016
56
Be prepared to see a lot of that this season, lol.
Nov 03rd 2016
58
Hoiberg wanted to reward Portis/Mirotic
Nov 03rd 2016
59
@ the Rose/Noah homecoming.
Nov 06th 2016
63
10 Games In. 10 thoughts.
Nov 13th 2016
64
10 for 10
Nov 14th 2016
65
Mirotic is definitely the X-factor.
Nov 15th 2016
67
I feel much better about that 3-2 now lol
Nov 16th 2016
68
fuck rondo.
Nov 16th 2016
69
Bro?
Nov 23rd 2016
71
      yeah, man. he hasn't been good.
Nov 23rd 2016
73
           I'm not unreasonable, I'll take your word for it.
Nov 23rd 2016
74
                he hit 3 or 4 midrange last night that all came out of the same action
Nov 23rd 2016
75
enjoyed this comment from the blogabull nuggets game recap:
Nov 23rd 2016
70
Spot on...it was a good play
Nov 23rd 2016
72
I feel like Felicio is a better option
Nov 23rd 2016
76
I'ma see how y'all talk when MCW gets back
Nov 25th 2016
77
Ha. Well he's out another 4-6 weeks.
Nov 25th 2016
78
      from my understanding
Nov 26th 2016
83
           that's better.
Nov 26th 2016
85
           Nah, it's another 4-6 weeks
Nov 26th 2016
86
                no, that was a misunderstanding. already been clarified.
Nov 26th 2016
88
                     Ah ok...gotcha.
Nov 26th 2016
89
good game, rondo.
Nov 25th 2016
79
JB circus trip #s: 28.3 p, 8.2 r, 3.8 a, 50.5 fg, 41.2 3p, 87.9 ft, +65
Nov 25th 2016
80
#2 in the east, with 9 of the next 12 at the crib.
Nov 25th 2016
81
legit fun team to watch.
Nov 25th 2016
82
      Not me!
Nov 26th 2016
87
jimmy butler's career year by the numbers:
Nov 26th 2016
84
http://i.giphy.com/1049ukAOov8bni.gif
Dec 05th 2016
94
hmmmmm any details guys
Dec 05th 2016
90
Another dumb coach trying to tell Rondo how to do his job
Dec 05th 2016
91
got into it with asst
Dec 05th 2016
92
RE: Another dumb coach trying to tell Rondo how to do his job
Dec 05th 2016
95
damn smh
Dec 05th 2016
93
Can this team win w/o consistent 3pt shooting?
Dec 16th 2016
96
RE: Can this team win w/o consistent 3pt shooting?
Dec 16th 2016
98
are we panicking yet?
Dec 16th 2016
97
RE: are we panicking yet?
Dec 16th 2016
99
I've pretty much checked out
Dec 16th 2016
100
panic?
Dec 16th 2016
101
      RE: panic?
Dec 16th 2016
102
           good luck with that.
Dec 16th 2016
103
                RE: good luck with that.
Dec 16th 2016
104
Great interview w/ Taj Gibson (swipe)
Dec 20th 2016
105
One of the most likable Bulls of all time. And a real dude.
Dec 20th 2016
106
GarPax's Draft Day Blunders (swipe)
Dec 25th 2016
107
Paxson Addresses State Of The Bulls (swipe)
Dec 25th 2016
108
This Bulls FO can't evaluate talent.
Feb 23rd 2017
109

dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
21925 posts
Mon Oct-03-16 03:28 PM

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1. "cmon."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

>Personally, I think we'll be in the mid/upper 40's/low 50's
>given health.

don't play yourself © khaled

low expectations, dogg. this team is trash. set yourself up for the pleasant surprise rather than the letdown.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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auragin_boi
Member since Aug 01st 2003
20939 posts
Mon Oct-03-16 05:08 PM

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7. "If y'all have learned anything about me over my time here"
In response to Reply # 1
Mon Oct-03-16 05:10 PM by auragin_boi

  

          

it should be that I'm a perpetual optimist.

I called the first 'resurgence' with Curry/Chandler/Lu/Kirk when we didn't really have playoff expectations.

My thing is this, the young boi's gonna be better hopefully, Jimmy got the clear alpha so the chemistry will be better and most of the team should be comfortable with the system.

And we won 42 games with Rose missing 25% of the year, Noah missing like 60%, Dunny missing like 60% and Jimmy missing like 20%.

I think 44-47 is where we'll land. 51 is a reach but 4 games ain't impossible.

I do agree with your assessment about the D tho. That's my biggest concern. Rondo and Wade are decent defenders when keyed in and Lopez is decent inside so we'll see.

____________

  

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Vex_id
Charter member
65616 posts
Tue Nov-01-16 01:48 PM

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50. "^noted. "
In response to Reply # 1


          


-->

  

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LeroyBumpkin
Charter member
36966 posts
Mon Oct-03-16 03:39 PM

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2. "Speak now or forever hold your peace."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I'm torn.

I wanted the deal with Minnesota for Kris Dunn to go down.
The idea of a Valentine, Dunn, Mirotic, Portis, McDermott squad was interesting.
Oh, and then the addition of a 2017 lottery pick.
Sure, that team wasn't going to win many games, but they'd get playing time.
AND, Butler's prime wouldn't get wasted.

But I'm a fan, and the grass is always greener...

The other side of me doesn't trust this front office to orchestrate a rebuild.
They've yet to show they can evaluate players OR coaches.
Let's face it, they're in over their heads.
So the other part of me is I'm kinda glad they went with this half measure.
I'd be SHOCKED if we got the 5th seed or higher.
I'm not worried about us finding some sort of workable offense.
I just don't think this team will be able to defend anyone. Anyone.

Silver lining, the ol' man is so disgusted by the Bears he bought tickets to
the Noah/Rose homecoming game.

That's all I got.

https://digife.com

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
21925 posts
Mon Oct-03-16 03:49 PM

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4. "the only positive imo of forgoing the full rebuild"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

is that they gained some free agency cachet.

bulls have never really had a guy in the cool kid clique. dudes like rose and noah don't really fuck with the other players like that. they kinda keep to themselves and do their own thing.

now you have that in wade. if you're not gonna go full tank and build thru the draft, then you're gonna need a recruiter. wade's a guy who can realistically go out next summer and land you a blake griffin or chris paul.

so that's it. other than that? yeah man, they should've tore this shit down, cashed out on jimmy and reshuffled the deck. but whatever.






>I'm torn.
>
>I wanted the deal with Minnesota for Kris Dunn to go down.
>The idea of a Valentine, Dunn, Mirotic, Portis, McDermott
>squad was interesting.
>Oh, and then the addition of a 2017 lottery pick.
>Sure, that team wasn't going to win many games, but they'd get
>playing time.
>AND, Butler's prime wouldn't get wasted.
>
>But I'm a fan, and the grass is always greener...
>
>The other side of me doesn't trust this front office to
>orchestrate a rebuild.
>They've yet to show they can evaluate players OR coaches.
>Let's face it, they're in over their heads.
>So the other part of me is I'm kinda glad they went with this
>half measure.
>I'd be SHOCKED if we got the 5th seed or higher.
>I'm not worried about us finding some sort of workable
>offense.
>I just don't think this team will be able to defend anyone.
>Anyone.
>
>Silver lining, the ol' man is so disgusted by the Bears he
>bought tickets to
>the Noah/Rose homecoming game.
>
>That's all I got.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
86672 posts
Mon Oct-03-16 05:51 PM

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8. "I definitely thought this was the move."
In response to Reply # 4
Mon Oct-03-16 05:52 PM by Frank Longo

  

          

yeah man, they should've tore
>this shit down, cashed out on jimmy and reshuffled the deck.
>but whatever.

Seemed they were headed that direction too. I thought once they picked Valentine that maybe they could try to make a move to snag one more pick to back him up with someone like Wade Baldwin, Tyler Ulis, or maybe, if they wanted to wait til Round 2, Kay Felder. All felt like ideal Freddy backcourt guys. Even Jerian Grant and Robin Lopez all seem to fit the style, even if they aren't Sexy Names (I even like the recent addition of Thomas Walkup, who could honestly make the team-- I was surprised he wasn't drafted).

But yeah, as you pointed out, the Rondo/Wade moves make nooooooo sense to me. Unless, as you again pointed out, they brought in Wade to try to attract some names in the next offseason or towards the end of free agency.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

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LeroyBumpkin
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36966 posts
Mon Oct-03-16 08:23 PM

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12. "RE: the only positive imo of forgoing the full rebuild"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

>now you have that in wade. if you're not gonna go full tank
>and build thru the draft, then you're gonna need a recruiter.
>wade's a guy who can realistically go out next summer and land
>you a blake griffin or chris paul.

I hear you. And you're right, we've never had a connected guy like Wade.
But they have to play well now in order to give Wade ammo to recruit.
Before we had respectable records and playoff appearances, but nobody to recruit.
Is anyone coming to a 30 win team?

https://digife.com

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
21925 posts
Mon Oct-03-16 03:55 PM

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5. "oh and i'll be there on the 4th too."
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

>Silver lining, the ol' man is so disgusted by the Bears he
>bought tickets to
>the Noah/Rose homecoming game.

i think we're in 103. right by the home bench. should be lit.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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Shogun
Member since Jun 25th 2003
3042 posts
Tue Nov-15-16 11:32 AM

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66. "my problem is we never know what we're gonna get."
In response to Reply # 2


          

I'm not putting myself through the rollercoaster of "win by 20", then "lose to the bottom feeders by 10 at home" thing again.

  

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cgonz00cc
Member since Aug 01st 2002
35259 posts
Mon Oct-03-16 03:42 PM

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3. "Low 50's???"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Lmao

WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE

  

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murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
23113 posts
Mon Oct-03-16 04:00 PM

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6. "RE: Over the Under: Chicago Bulls 2016/2017 Season post"
In response to Reply # 0


          


35 to 40 wins......Not that good.....

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

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RandomFact
Member since Dec 10th 2005
8710 posts
Mon Oct-03-16 07:47 PM

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9. "trying to predict anything about this team is not worth the brain strain"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

They'll either be a respectable mid-tier playoff team, or they'll be a trainwreck. Don't see much in between with these egos.

Gonna sit back and watch the zero expectations. I just hope this shit doesn't completely blow up. That would be (another) organizational embarrassment that would set us back years in regards to fagency.

  

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TheRealBillyOcean
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38224 posts
Mon Oct-03-16 07:59 PM

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10. "They'll at least get to rd 2 of the playoffs. "
In response to Reply # 0


          

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

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Premiere
Member since Sep 02nd 2005
2177 posts
Mon Oct-03-16 09:15 PM

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13. "WOW. Bold prediction."
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

You think these guys can knock off Boston in a series? Why?

  

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TheRealBillyOcean
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Tue Oct-04-16 09:43 AM

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18. "Who does Boston have? Like seriously."
In response to Reply # 13


          

We still waiting for Boston to be that team. Why?

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

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Premiere
Member since Sep 02nd 2005
2177 posts
Tue Oct-04-16 04:57 PM

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21. "I'm not waiting on them to be any team."
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

They were better than the Bulls last year, their best players are relatively young, they added an All-Star vet at their most lacking position, they went to seven in the first round last year, and they play real NBA defense. They'll very likely still be better than the Bulls this year.

Like, in what way do the Bulls look better? They have three playmakers, two of whom are on the downsides of their careers, none of whom are above-average shooters. Yeah, Wade can probably win you a playoff game. He did a couple times last postseason. And maybe Butler can too (I know Butler's a better player, but Wade's still that dude at times). But they'll be bad at defense again, they'll feature a few nothings on offense at any time their defense will look respectable (Lopez, Gibson)... I don't know, I guess I could envision a world in which they have a decent offense if Mirotic and McDermott are good enough to play with the three playmakers and those three guys develop strong chemistry, but they'll probably just be mediocre, win 37-40 games on talent, and get their ass whooped when they play a disciplined team in the playoffs, if they get there.

  

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murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
23113 posts
Tue Oct-04-16 06:32 PM

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24. "RE: I'm not waiting on them to be any team."
In response to Reply # 21


          

>They were better than the Bulls last year, their best players
>are relatively young, they added an All-Star vet at their most
>lacking position, they went to seven in the first round last
>year, and they play real NBA defense. They'll very likely
>still be better than the Bulls this year.


Very likely is putting it mildly....

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

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auragin_boi
Member since Aug 01st 2003
20939 posts
Tue Oct-04-16 08:16 AM

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14. "^^^Their ceiling"
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

I don't think anyone outside of Clev is beatable in the first round.

T-dot
Bos
Indy
Det

I don't see any of them being head and shoulders above:

Cha
Mil
Chi
NY
Atl
Wash
Orl

talent wise at least. The first round should be really interesting outside of the Cavs matchup.

____________

  

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cgonz00cc
Member since Aug 01st 2002
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Tue Oct-04-16 08:49 AM

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16. "Indy and Tor are head and shoulders better"
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

DET and BOS are 2 heads and 4 shoulders better

WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE

  

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TheRealBillyOcean
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Tue Oct-04-16 09:41 AM

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17. "Weird that you put Detroit in that tier when they got SWEPT"
In response to Reply # 16


          

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

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cgonz00cc
Member since Aug 01st 2002
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Tue Oct-04-16 07:44 PM

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27. "Only if talent, youth, athleticism, depth, and coaching dont matter"
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

In which case that would be weird

WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE

  

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TheRealBillyOcean
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Tue Oct-04-16 09:44 AM

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19. "I got Cleveland-----> Charlotte & Indy ----> the rest"
In response to Reply # 14


          

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

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Premiere
Member since Sep 02nd 2005
2177 posts
Tue Oct-04-16 05:03 PM

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22. "Charlotte? Didn't they just lose like half their offense?"
In response to Reply # 19


  

          

I like them this year too, but I definitely don't think they're in a tier above the rest of the East outside of the bottom-feeders. They have to prove they can still hit just as many threes this year (I buy that Walker just got better, but Batum and Williams had career-best years too), and that they have enough creation after losing their two best bench scorers and a starter who spread the floor and break a defense down after the shot fake in Lee.

  

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TheRealBillyOcean
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Tue Oct-04-16 06:22 PM

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23. "Who'd they lose? Lin & Lee? "
In response to Reply # 22


          

Ehhhh, they'd be just fine.

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

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Premiere
Member since Sep 02nd 2005
2177 posts
Tue Oct-04-16 06:36 PM

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25. "And Jefferson"
In response to Reply # 23


  

          

Who, if nothing else, still got them buckets off the bench last year.

I think their D will be better this year; I just think Williams and Batum could both fall off

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
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Tue Oct-04-16 07:32 PM

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26. "lulz. you and a_b both wilding."
In response to Reply # 19


  

          

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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isaaaa
Member since May 10th 2007
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Thu Nov-03-16 03:48 PM

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54. "FACTS!"
In response to Reply # 10


          


Anti-gentrification, cheap alcohol & trying to look pretty in our twilight posting years (c) Big Reg


Just trying to share the world - www.JySbr.net

  

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TheRealBillyOcean
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Wed Apr-19-17 07:30 AM

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110. "https://media.tenor.co/images/ef1a03dc0bd219098bfc6fdff8a119ad/tenor.gif"
In response to Reply # 10


          

https://media.tenor.co/images/ef1a03dc0bd219098bfc6fdff8a119ad/tenor.gif

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

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LeroyBumpkin
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36966 posts
Wed Apr-19-17 11:12 PM

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111. "ha"
In response to Reply # 110


  

          

https://digife.com

  

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COOLEHMAGAZINE
Member since May 22nd 2007
5563 posts
Mon Oct-03-16 08:13 PM

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11. "RE: Over the Under: Chicago Bulls 2016/2017 Season post"
In response to Reply # 0


          

They will be bad. 37 wins

Still can't believe they picked up Rondo of all people, smh

I'm from the lost black tribe of Israel, the Yos

http://coolehmag.com/frontEnd/

  

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auragin_boi
Member since Aug 01st 2003
20939 posts
Tue Oct-04-16 08:27 AM

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15. "Thoughts on the first preseason game:"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

-I saw excellent D in spurts, so that's promising
-I saw multiple blown assignments, that's concerning
^^^Says they have the tools to be a good defensive team and need to iron out the kinks.

-Lopez will be a solid defensive asset

-Niko didn't look good and I'm getting Nocioni flashbacks...when he should be better than Noch imo

-Valentine is a gamer and indeed reminds me of Paul Pierce mobility wise, pissed he sprained his ankle though

-Grant is still playing like a rookie. He needs to pace his game more

-Rondo did Rondo, Wade was 'kinda' Wade but only played 11 mins so...

-Jimmy needs to learn how to score 'easily'. Basa was dead on with the 'struggle man' points he gets. Not saying those won't be necessary but that seems like that's ALL to his game. He's gonna get hurt doing that ALL the time.

-Starters got a lead, bench lost it, starters couldn't get it back, bench got it back, then lost the game...ugh this is like a flashback of the last 2 seasons. I'm hoping Hoi figures out the most effective lineups very early on.

-I don't like Delly but dude is just a hardnosed basketball player.

-Jabari looked very fluid. Gonna be interesting to see what he does this year.

-If this team syncs early, I see some entertaining basketball and W's at a .55% winning clip at worst.

____________

  

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LeroyBumpkin
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20. "I think Mirotic will come around."
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

It was interesting watching Rondo out run everybody down the court. Ha.

I think Valentine looked good in the few minutes he had before the injury.

https://digife.com

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
21925 posts
Thu Oct-06-16 10:53 AM

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28. "theringer.com previews the season:"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

https://theringer.com/could-dwyane-wade-bring-team-banana-boat-to-chicago-5ac2de10c913#.2uwd2b9ms

Could Dwyane Wade Bring Team Banana Boat to Chicago?
Probably not, but the Bulls’ offseason plan has created all sorts of possible outcomes. The future could be exciting, but the present is complicated.

Kevin O'Connor
Staff Writer, The Ringer

Dwyane Wade and Rajon Rondo are stopgaps for a retooling Chicago Bulls team. That would sound crazy to someone who fell asleep in 2012 and woke up today, but it’s a reality. Wade and Rondo are two nonshooting, ball-pounding, past-their-prime guards that don’t make a lick of sense for Fred Hoiberg’s system, which is based on spacing and ball movement. But they do afford Chicago the time to find the answers the team is seeking as it attempts to reconstruct itself as a contender that might not involve either of them.

“We were able to change the roster and get younger, and in doing so we really didn’t sacrifice as we’re looking at into the future. We kept a great deal of flexibility from a cap standpoint and kept our assets moving forward,” Bulls GM Gar Forman said at media day this summer. “We’re excited about where we’re at today, but we’re also excited about where we can be down the road, which was a big part of our plan.”

But by signing both Wade and Rondo to short-term deals instead of spending lavishly on inflated contracts over the summer, Chicago has also left the door open to a number of different plans for the future — including one so wildly improbable it would turn the league on its head … again.

Wade has a player option for 2017 and Rondo’s second year is only partially guaranteed. The 2017 salary cap is projected at $102 million, so the Bulls could easily create enough space for one max contract. Maybe Wade could dump Rondo and upgrade to his Banana Boat buddy Chris Paul, who has a player option next summer.

Still with me? OK, let’s go way off the deep end here: Don’t forget LeBron James and Carmelo Anthony have options to hit free agency in 2018, and the Banana Boat quartet has expressed a desire to play together. “I really hope that, before our career is over, we can all play together,” LeBron told Bleacher Report earlier this year. “At least one, maybe one or two seasons — me, Melo, D-Wade, CP — we can get a year in. I would actually take a pay cut to do that.” Maybe this is what Gar Forman is talking about when he says that the team is retaining flexibility. Maybe it’s not about the youth, maybe it’s about the future Hall of Famers. After all, the Bulls were in the conversation to sign LeBron and Wade when LeBron made the original Decision in 2010, so maybe they could be the final port of call for the Banana Boat Superteam in 2018.

OK, back to reality: The Bulls need to actually be good to appeal to stars, and there are no guarantees of that with this clunky roster.

The team’s offseason plan was to get “younger (and) more athletic,” and it’s exactly what they did. Over the past three seasons Chicago had the fifth-oldest team in the NBA; now it’s entering 2016 with one of the 10 youngest rosters in the league. Mission: Curious Case of Benny the Bull Button was accomplished. The Bulls’ projected starters — Rondo (30), Wade (34), Jimmy Butler (27), Taj Gibson (31), and Robin Lopez (28) — are fairly old, but they have a youthful bench with Doug McDermott, Denzel Valentine, Bobby Portis, Nikola Mirotic, Jerian Grant, Cristiano Felicio, and others.

Butler was reportedly unhappy last season, and even publicly criticized Hoiberg. “Several teams” tried to “pry away Butler” at the deadline, according to The Vertical, and those talks resumed on draft night. It’d be understandable if Butler were still disgruntled heading into the summer. Chicago was able to acquire a couple of marquee names to help with the bottom line, but Wade and Rondo create more questions on the floor than they answer.

Hoiberg was hired to modernize the team’s stone-age offense by emphasizing constant player and ball movement, pace, and spacing. Unfortunately, Butler, Wade, and Rondo all have iso-heavy tendencies: 57 percent of Wade’s field goal attempts came in the paint last season, compared with 55 percent for Rondo, and 44 percent for Butler, per NBA Savant. They all need proper spacing for their penetrating drives, and without a natural perimeter threat among the three, they’ll be suffocating when they share the floor.

Hoiberg recently said the Bulls playmakers will need to “create scoring opportunities through ball movement and cutting,” but that’s easier said than done when teams will defend them like the Bucks did on Monday.

https://gfycat.com/OpenSillyGemsbok

All eyes are on Rondo as he penetrates the paint, while Butler and Wade are left totally open. Butler ends up with what should be an open look but he opts to drive inside, where the defense has collapsed. Rondo somehow manages to bail the team out with a fadeaway jumper, but the entire play itself is troubling. Teams will defend Rondo-Wade-Butler lineups just like that all season. Butler has shot 33.3 percent on spot-up 3s over the past three years, per SportVU. Rondo has improved to 36.7 percent on spot-up 3s since being traded by Boston in 2014, per SportVU, but that number comes on a small sample of 147 shots. It’s not any better for Wade, who has made 386 3-pointers since he came into the NBA in 2003; for perspective, Steph Curry made 402 last season alone.

On the bright side, the Bulls bench is flooded with shooters. McDermott, who shot 42.5 percent from behind the arc last season, is lights out. Nikola Mirotic is streaky, but shot 44.5 percent from 3 after returning from an appendectomy last season. Tony Snell shot over 36 percent from 3 over the past two years. Rookie Valentine shot 44.4 percent on a high volume of 3s in his senior year at Michigan State. Even young bigs Portis and Felicio have flashed floor-spacing upside. Hoiberg can stagger the minutes of Butler, Rondo, and Wade and sprinkle in shooting throughout the rest of their lineups.

Beyond spacing issues, the roster is devoid of two-way players. Most of the aforementioned bench shooters are not plus defenders. The more shooting the Bulls have on the floor, the less likely they are to get stops or grab rebounds. The Bulls allowed 14.3 second-chance points per game last season, tied for third-worst in the NBA, so they’ll need help from their guards crashing the boards. That only hurts the offense since it limits leak outs.

The Bulls ranked 29th in forced turnovers and 30th in transition scoring efficiency last season. They simply weren’t creating many easy fast-break buckets. Hoiberg has stressed defensive aggression for the upcoming season. “Like all staffs we watched a ton of film and tried to figure out with this group how we can create more turnovers, how to impact the ball better,” Hoiberg said. “Every day it’s been a big emphasis in our defense and we get out and force turnovers, and make sure that help is there behind the trap, and being aggressive on the ball.”

Rondo is lauded for his transition scoring and playmaking, but he ranked in the third percentile of transition scoring efficiency last season (0.67 points per possession, per Synergy, or worse than an Old Kobe Bryant isolation). Per Synergy, Rondo was also worst in the league in transition turnover frequency because of Hail Mary passes like this:

https://gfycat.com/DecentEvergreenHerring

Rondo’s low production last season is partly a byproduct of donning a Kings jersey, but as a passer, he’s always been as frustrating as he is dazzling. Chicago’s overall transition scoring production doesn’t fall entirely on Rondo’s broad shoulders, either. His teammates must commit to running the floor. Rondo’s job is a whole lot easier when he’s racing with a fleet by his side.

Balance will be an issue for the Bulls on defense, but you can see a faint outline of how it might work. Lopez isn’t quite prime-level Joakim Noah, but he plays with a similar tenacious element. He’s not a shot-blocker, but he’s a reliable linebacker on defense, communicating assignments, calling out screens, and flying around the paint. He’ll typically be in good position to alter a shot, like he was here against Jabari Parker:

https://gfycat.com/TameDefensiveDolphin

The Bulls allowed the most drives in the league last season, according to Nylon Calculus. That happened because of their inability to contain the ball. Defense starts on the perimeter and Chicago’s guards, especially Derrick Rose, left their bigs out to dry. Even Butler’s defense declined with increased offensive responsibility. Wade and Rondo could theoretically help a lot here. Once upon a time, both players were elite defenders, named to All-Defensive teams a combined seven times over their careers. But they’ve declined sharply in recent years. Wade’s effort and focus has diminished as he’s aged; Miami was 5.5 points per 100 possessions better on defense without him last season, and he averaged a career-low 1.1 steals per game.

Rondo’s defense is like the show Dexter: entertaining through its first four or five seasons, and frustrating thereafter. Rondo is lauded for his intelligence, but he gambles for steals far too often. He was once a playoff hero, but he now rests his hands on his knees before the buzzer sounds.

https://gfycat.com/WelcomeAfraidIndianrhinoceros

Here’s a common scene: Rondo looks disinterested, lazily fights through a screen, and then stands and watches. Above, Curry has time to pour a cup of coffee and read the newspaper before unloading his 3-pointer. Rondo still has his brilliant moments, but he hasn’t played hard on defense consistently for at least four years, or with fundamentals for even longer. It’s a shame, really, because prime Rondo was enthralling on defense.

Maybe the veterans will rally around each other in Chicago. Maybe the diminished production of Rondo is a reflection of the teams he played on. Maybe “The Three Alphas,” as Butler labeled the trio, can feed off one another. But it’s hard to be optimistic about this unit: Rondo is the same guy who admitted in 2015 he hadn’t played defense “in a couple of years,” and Wade’s default setting for defense nowadays is off, not on.

The success of the Bulls starts on the defensive end of the floor. If Rondo, Wade, and Butler do morph into the league’s most ferocious trio, with Lopez manning the paint, then this team could be a tough play no matter the opponent. But that would be asking for a lot — namely, a time machine.

You know how when you’re watching a scary movie and you get that bracing feeling like some wild shit is about to go down onscreen? That’s what it feels like reviewing this Bulls roster.

This could be a disaster waiting to happen, but the franchise absolutely made the right choice to maintain a team with a winning complexion. Unless the Bulls could have gotten an overwhelming return for Butler in a trade, they were correct to hold off on pressing the reset button. Wade and Rondo can be the Band-Aids to control the bleeding until real solutions are found; Butler is a top-20 player signed through 2019 on a bargain contract. There just needs to be a lot of effort in making this all work, from all sides. Wade and Rondo might implode, and by February we might be talking about where the Bulls should trade Butler, but it’s worth a try when the long-term payoff could be significant.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
21925 posts
Sat Oct-15-16 12:04 AM

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29. "courtside tonight. wade and rondo looked good, man."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

i can't even front. team is still trash and all, but yeah.

oh and THE ZIP. kid can ball. i left impressed.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
25919 posts
Sat Oct-15-16 10:25 PM

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30. "Snell for Carter-Williams trade being discussed."
In response to Reply # 0


          

Assume that Bulls give up something else or maybe everyone's finally dropped MC-W's trade value.

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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LeroyBumpkin
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Sat Oct-15-16 10:28 PM

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31. "I like this for Snell"
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

New scenery.
The Bucks seem to like guys with length.
Plus there's less pressure for him to shoot (eh...is there?)

Either way, I hope he plays well for them.

As for MCW, obviously Gar and Paxson aren't happy with any of the back up point guard options.

https://digife.com

  

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
25919 posts
Sun Oct-16-16 11:05 AM

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36. "The Bucks need a shooter."
In response to Reply # 31


          

It's why I didn't quite get this. He doesn't really fill the skills I think they would be looking for at the 2.

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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mashpg89
Member since Dec 08th 2004
2867 posts
Sun Oct-16-16 12:17 AM

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32. "finally"
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

Snell doesn't belong in the NBA. He's got good length, athleticism, and shooting touch, but absolutely zero confidence, aggressiveness, or competitiveness. He's a boy in a man's league. Took BarfPacks long enough to realize it.

It'll be interesting to see if MCW can turn his young career around on the Bulls. Rondo should be a good mentor for him. Though I'm not sure how many more non-shooting guards we can fit on the roster. I hope Hoiberg still allows Dinwiddie to compete for backup point guard minutes, because he's been playing great.

  

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FILF
Member since Jun 01st 2007
20180 posts
Sun Oct-16-16 01:31 AM

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33. "So, Kidd turned Brandon Knight into Tony Snell?"
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

WHAT'S GOOD *****? What's REALLY good?!?!????!!! Ha HA!
http://40.media.tumblr.com/d8e2daf9f3f37244cd05436bcdf05973/tumblr_mt4qibKq4c1rgam01o1_1280.png

  

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auragin_boi
Member since Aug 01st 2003
20939 posts
Sun Oct-16-16 08:43 AM

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34. "Do it. No brainer."
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

____________

  

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ShawndmeSlanted
Member since Oct 30th 2004
43353 posts
Sun Oct-16-16 08:45 AM

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35. "It's done"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

---
"though time has passed, im still the future" (c) black thought

  

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LeroyBumpkin
Charter member
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Sun Oct-30-16 01:13 PM

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37. "I'm awaiting a larger sample size..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

...specifically I want to see how we do in that 2nd game against Boston, but the 2nd unit rebounded much better against Indiana after the poor showing in the first game.

But yeah, I have thoughts that I'm holding on to.

https://digife.com

  

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DVS
Member since Sep 13th 2002
19730 posts
Mon Oct-31-16 04:39 AM

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38. "It's still early...but I'm seeing good signs"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

1. Defense has returned

The loss of 3 pointers has led to the return of effort. Taj insertion into the starting lineup has finally come...and you can see him talking with the vets. Rondo, Wade, Butler, Lopez....ain't none of them ever ran from a challenge and I'm enjoying seeing how the rotate and make it hell for their opponents. You can score if you PG or Turner...but it's PROBLEMS out there.

2. The Bench Mob is BACK

One of my favorite lineups so far is D Wade running with the bench boys. Having him out there teaching while we have our floor spacers and effort guys in place is a revelation. This has generally been how we close the 1st and start the 2nd...and the dividends should pay out as the season goes on.

The Bulls look like a team for the 1st time in the past 3 seasons. I still wouldn't say they are headed to the chip...but the playoffs is looking more probable and I know it's gonna be fits for whoever they face.

D

vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

Waldorf and Statler Vol 4:CONAN IS OUT NOW!!!: http://waldorfandstatler.bandcamp.com

and don't forget to check "DVS 4 ALDERMAN"

http://windimoto.bandcamp.com/album/dvs-4-alderman-bandcamp-exclusive-expanded-editio

  

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auragin_boi
Member since Aug 01st 2003
20939 posts
Mon Oct-31-16 10:15 AM

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39. "I've been saying 45-50 wins for this team***"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

people kept scoffing at me.

We went 42-40 last year with comparable talent, tons of injuries and a team that wasn't working chemistry wise (especially on D). 3-8 wins can be had easily with just correcting ONE of those things and I think we'll correct at least 2.

We've beaten Boston and Indy and looked good doing so. The defense is more keyed in than last year like DVS said. But I'm most impressed with the offense. Rondo works WONDERS for hoiberg's system. What he does promotes ball movement. While he might be a SPT, when he's surrounded with talent, he heightens what they do. I like that Freddie isn't afraid to pace his lineups this year either. Valentine and Portis have not played much and probably won't until necessary, which is good imo. MCW is another good addition as he likes to pass as well and his length makes him a great rebounder.

Which is the other key notable this year: Rebounding

Vs Boston 55-36
Vs Indy 47-33
31 total offensive boards too

I love that wade, rondo, butler, MCW are all good G rebounders. Taj+Lopez makes us a force all over the court there. Killing possessions and giving us additional ones. I think we are actually #1 in offensive rating through 2 games.

I'm looking forward to a few road tests tho. Wanna see what travels.


***Given relative health

____________

  

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auragin_boi
Member since Aug 01st 2003
20939 posts
Tue Nov-01-16 08:29 AM

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40. "Ok...can't take too much stock in a W over brooklyn but"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

it was on the road and the offense traveled, which is very good.

We didn't play down to their level which is much better than the last 2 seasons.

MCW sprained a knee and might be out a few weeks but Canaan played well replacing him and now Denzel might get some minutes.

Defense looked sharper.

Fast break game is nasty...oop from wade to jimmy was nice.

#1 offense in the league and the highest scoring team in the NBA to date

And I'm glad nobody is talking about us yet.

Shhhhhhhh lol

____________

  

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TheRealBillyOcean
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38224 posts
Tue Nov-01-16 08:48 AM

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41. "http://tinyurl.com/q8p7m5p"
In response to Reply # 40


          

http://tinyurl.com/q8p7m5p

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

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LeroyBumpkin
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Tue Nov-01-16 09:30 AM

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42. "mcw/valentine"
In response to Reply # 40


  

          

>MCW sprained a knee and might be out a few weeks but Canaan
>played well replacing him and now Denzel might get some
>minutes.

The sooner Denzel can get some minutes, the sooner I think he can help that 2nd unit. Right now one of the big 3 kinda have to be on the floor to keep it from falling completely apart. There was a sequence against the Pacers MCW was running the 2nd unit and he committed 2 turnovers and bad shot. Wade immediately got up off the bench.

If MCW and Valentine can work together, I think they could both really help McDermott and Mirotic find their shots. But I'm not sure how much MCW is going to want to give up the PG duties...ha.

https://digife.com

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
86672 posts
Tue Nov-01-16 10:16 AM

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43. "*looks at offensive numbers* *remembers the Hoiberg skeptics*"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

*smiles*

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

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RandomFact
Member since Dec 10th 2005
8710 posts
Tue Nov-01-16 11:46 AM

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44. "gonna take this moment to puff my chest a lil"
In response to Reply # 43
Tue Nov-01-16 11:47 AM by RandomFact

  

          

always maintained that a team with a bunch of plodders could not run anything resembling hoiball.

pau was a big issue.

actually, everyone was an issue. bunch of disgruntled vets and players set in their ways who didn't want to adapt.

rondo and wade not letting that shit fly this year.

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
86672 posts
Tue Nov-01-16 11:56 AM

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45. "Yep."
In response to Reply # 44


  

          

And while I was initially mad at the Rondo/Wade move, I had a couple thoughts:

1. I wasn't appreciating enough how Hoiberg wants *everyone* to chip in with rebounding, a staple going back to ISU, and Rondo and Wade are perfect for that. Surprisingly, Hoiberg knows more about what fits his style than I do.
2. As long as Wade continues to intelligently pick his distance shot spots and Rondo continues to avoid taking shots from distance, both of them will continue to work great. I assumed they'd both be bringing some baggage into the mix (especially Rondo) for no reason.
3. I'd also like to take this time to shout out the people who said Hoiberg can't adjust his style to match his personnel and can't run a defense. Since Hoiberg is clearly doing both this year thus far.

While I don't expect this level of dominance all season... this is why teams were desperate for Hoiberg when he was in college. He's a goddamn hell of a coach, and he's taken two players that didn't seem to be perfect fits for Hoiball on paper due to their lack of distance shooting and married his offense beautifully to their offensive strengths (it helps that they both look very much on board as well).

Again, I don't really know what to expect from the full season... but I'm glad Hoiberg skeptics are getting a chance to come around and see him for what he really is.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

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RandomFact
Member since Dec 10th 2005
8710 posts
Tue Nov-01-16 12:17 PM

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46. "this is all great stuff n/m"
In response to Reply # 45


  

          

>And while I was initially mad at the Rondo/Wade move, I had a
>couple thoughts:
>
>1. I wasn't appreciating enough how Hoiberg wants *everyone*
>to chip in with rebounding, a staple going back to ISU, and
>Rondo and Wade are perfect for that. Surprisingly, Hoiberg
>knows more about what fits his style than I do.
>2. As long as Wade continues to intelligently pick his
>distance shot spots and Rondo continues to avoid taking shots
>from distance, both of them will continue to work great. I
>assumed they'd both be bringing some baggage into the mix
>(especially Rondo) for no reason.
>3. I'd also like to take this time to shout out the people who
>said Hoiberg can't adjust his style to match his personnel and
>can't run a defense. Since Hoiberg is clearly doing both this
>year thus far.
>
>While I don't expect this level of dominance all season...
>this is why teams were desperate for Hoiberg when he was in
>college. He's a goddamn hell of a coach, and he's taken two
>players that didn't seem to be perfect fits for Hoiball on
>paper due to their lack of distance shooting and married his
>offense beautifully to their offensive strengths (it helps
>that they both look very much on board as well).
>
>Again, I don't really know what to expect from the full
>season... but I'm glad Hoiberg skeptics are getting a chance
>to come around and see him for what he really is.

  

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LeroyBumpkin
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52. "RE: Yep."
In response to Reply # 45


  

          

>2. As long as Wade continues to intelligently pick his
>distance shot spots and Rondo continues to avoid taking shots
>from distance,

I actually don't mind Rondo taking mid range shots and 3s. He hasn't been that bad honestly, and they're wide open looks most of the time. Keep the defense honest.

https://digife.com

  

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auragin_boi
Member since Aug 01st 2003
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Wed Nov-02-16 08:21 AM

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53. "Eeehh...slow down kemosabe"
In response to Reply # 45
Wed Nov-02-16 08:24 AM by auragin_boi

  

          

>1. I wasn't appreciating enough how Hoiberg wants *everyone*
>to chip in with rebounding, a staple going back to ISU, and
>Rondo and Wade are perfect for that. Surprisingly, Hoiberg
>knows more about what fits his style than I do.

C'mon, Wade and Rondo BEEN good guard rebounders. Hoi had nothing to do with that. And that was already a staple of Jimmy's game. Add that to Taj (decent rebounder) and Lopez (another decent rebounder) and it's pretty good on the boards.

>2. As long as Wade continues to intelligently pick his
>distance shot spots and Rondo continues to avoid taking shots
>from distance, both of them will continue to work great. I
>assumed they'd both be bringing some baggage into the mix
>(especially Rondo) for no reason.

I agree, I was a lil antsy about the baggage thing but so far so good. I also agree about Wade's 3's and Rondo's reluctance to shoot them more frequently (I don't mind him taking the open ones though, he's at least respectable).

>3. I'd also like to take this time to shout out the people who
>said Hoiberg can't adjust his style to match his personnel and
>can't run a defense. Since Hoiberg is clearly doing both this
>year thus far.

Ah, ah, aaaah...he did NOT adjust his style. He just has better pieces for it. Rondo is a near perfect fit for his offense. Wade is not a good fit but he's been veteran enough to adjust his game to fit into the system. Also, I don't think he's running the defense per say either. I think, again, he has better pieces. Rondo and Wade have decent track records as defenders. Jimmy, Taj and Lopez are known for being decent defenders. As long as everyone is buying in, it can work. It worked for almost half the season last year until he lost Pau on that end (he sucked in pnr D) and we suffered some injuries (Noah being a major blow to the D and Jimmy got hurt for a chunk of the year).

>While I don't expect this level of dominance all season...
>this is why teams were desperate for Hoiberg when he was in
>college. He's a goddamn hell of a coach, and he's taken two
>players that didn't seem to be perfect fits for Hoiball on
>paper due to their lack of distance shooting and married his
>offense beautifully to their offensive strengths (it helps
>that they both look very much on board as well).

lol so you agree, he didn't adjust his system, the vets just fit into it better. Wade isn't a PG yet he plays that role here on occasion to help the system, Wade historically didn't shoot 3's, Rondo still doesn't shoot 3's often but his game is all about ball movement/assist which is what Hoi's system breathes on. Marriage my a**...Vet humility is more like it.

>Again, I don't really know what to expect from the full
>season... but I'm glad Hoiberg skeptics are getting a chance
>to come around and see him for what he really is.

Yeah, a system coach. lol Granted it's an effective system if the right parts are there but a system none the less. See, Hoi recruited players that fit his system in college. Not always the case that you have that chance in the Pros. Who really deserves credit thus far? The FO...because none of us saw what they saw and we all questioned the moves. And secondarily, Wade and Rondo for adjusting their games/being good fits/checking ego at the door and making the system cohesive.

Looks good so far but we have a few real test I want to see before I get too excited.

____________

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Thu Nov-03-16 04:29 PM

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57. "So do they fit or not?"
In response to Reply # 53


  

          

Hoi playing two guards who aren't terribly good 3-point shooters at once is absolutely an adjustment. He never did that at ISU. Not once. It helps that Wade is getting good looks right now, but I'd be stunned if he shoots over 36% from 3 on the season-- even that would be by *FAR* a career best for him.

And I didn't say Hoi taught them to rebound, you non-reading-ass fool, lol. I said I discounted how important that aspect is to Hoi's game. His teams were never necessarily the best rebounders in college, but upon looking back, he really did ask a lot of guards to chip in on that front. So Rondo and Wade's shooting deficiencies are made up for with their rebounding.

But you can't say "the front office picked guys who miraculously fit Hoiberg's system!" without saying either (a) Hoiberg saw he could make them work and wanted those guys too, or (b) Hoiberg changed his system to fit the guys he had.

If you want to make the "he hasn't changed his system at all" argument, then I reckon you have to go back to the days of Royce White, because that was the last time Hoiberg had a ballhandler who couldn't really shoot (and even he was a better shooter than Rondo). So maybe he flipped back a few years in his playbook to what he did then. Because the "four guys who can shoot from 3" thing isn't really in effect here. So if it's still his system, it's a reversion back to an older version of it.

Either Hoi was in on the moves or he changed what he'd been planning on doing and made the moves work. It can't be neither. You can't deny Hoi credit for how good the Bulls have generally looked so far in this young season.

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auragin_boi
Member since Aug 01st 2003
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Fri Nov-04-16 08:44 AM

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60. "Ok, let me be more clear"
In response to Reply # 57


  

          

Historically, based on their skillset, they didn't fit his system. Upon arrival, Wade has adjusted and Rondo hasn't really NEEDED to score/have high usage from outside because his game is tailored to ball movement which in turn breathes life into Hoi's system.

>Hoi playing two guards who aren't terribly good 3-point
>shooters at once is absolutely an adjustment. He never did
>that at ISU. Not once. It helps that Wade is getting good
>looks right now, but I'd be stunned if he shoots over 36% from
>3 on the season-- even that would be by *FAR* a career best
>for him.

That's not an adjustment, that's happenstance of roster moves. It's who the FO put in front of him to coach. But he did't redesign his system to incorporate non-shooting. He asked the VETS TO ADJUST THEIR GAMES to the system:

http://bulls.247sports.com/Bolt/Fred-Hoiberg-wants-Dwyane-Wade-to-shoot-more-3-pointers-47848564

It just so happens that people are doubting Wade's ability to hit it at a respectable clip and he's been serviceable so far. It helps that a lot of his shots come off ball movement and not off the dribble as well (which is what Rondo brings to the table).

>And I didn't say Hoi taught them to rebound, you
>non-reading-ass fool, lol. I said I discounted how important
>that aspect is to Hoi's game. His teams were never necessarily
>the best rebounders in college, but upon looking back, he
>really did ask a lot of guards to chip in on that front. So
>Rondo and Wade's shooting deficiencies are made up for with
>their rebounding.

No, that's not what you said...here's what you said:
1. I wasn't appreciating enough how Hoiberg wants *everyone* to chip in with rebounding, a staple going back to ISU, and Rondo and Wade are perfect for that. Surprisingly, Hoiberg knows more about what fits his style than I do.

This is giving him credit for skills Rondo (about 5rpg, almost 6 over the last 4yrs) and Wade (about 5rpg) already had. Oh, he WANTS guys who were already good rebounders to chip in? Really? Wowzers! And then you contradict yourself at the end with "fits his system". So is he not a system coach or is he a system coach? lol

>But you can't say "the front office picked guys who
>miraculously fit Hoiberg's system!" without saying either (a)
>Hoiberg saw he could make them work and wanted those guys too,
>or (b) Hoiberg changed his system to fit the guys he had.

No, I said, the FO found guys that fit his system...better than most fans thought they would (so far). And I'd wager money if Hoi had a choice, Rondo and Wade would not have been top 3 for guys he thought we should target to fit his system. Hoi had 2 choices, adjust for the personnel coming in or ask them to adjust to the system. He chose the latter...hence, system coach.

>If you want to make the "he hasn't changed his system at all"
>argument, then I reckon you have to go back to the days of
>Royce White, because that was the last time Hoiberg had a
>ballhandler who couldn't really shoot (and even he was a
>better shooter than Rondo). So maybe he flipped back a few
>years in his playbook to what he did then. Because the "four
>guys who can shoot from 3" thing isn't really in effect here.
>So if it's still his system, it's a reversion back to an older
>version of it.

1-Royce White wasn't a PG
2-Hoi has never had a passer as gifted as Rondo
3-Everyone on the floor doesn't need to be a 38%+ 3pt specialist for Hoi's system to work though. They just have to be respectable AND you have to have a few guys who can shoot it consistently well on the roster (McBuckets, Niko, Canaan, Valentine). The KEY to his system is ball movement to get those 3's. Rondo is the catalyst there. That's why Wade and Butler are having career years so far because those shots are a little easier when you get them off effective passes.
4-We actually had a better shooters last year and shot worse. Key difference...more ball movement. We're averaging 4 assist more a game than last year.

>Either Hoi was in on the moves or he changed what he'd been
>planning on doing and made the moves work. It can't be
>neither. You can't deny Hoi credit for how good the Bulls have
>generally looked so far in this young season.

Hoi was force fed the moves but understood it was probably a better fit chemistry wise for the team than the guys who left. And he didn't change his system, he asked Wade to shoot more 3's and Rondo's passing skills enhance what he wants to do. Nevermind Rondo coming off a career high percentage behind the line (36% in Sac last yr).

And I never denied him credit, I said he's still a system coach which was the key thing in your post that I disagreed with. The system is effective obviously, but getting better fitting pieces now is how that worked out. And they fit because Wade was able to adjust his game and Rondo's passing.

____________

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
86672 posts
Fri Nov-04-16 10:02 AM

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61. "Okay."
In response to Reply # 60


  

          

That was just a lot of words, and my response would've just been another version of my above reply in a lot of ways, so I'll spare us the time loop, lol.

He's a very very good coach, regardless of whether you feel his system is rigid or flexible. At least we can hopefully agree on that.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
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auragin_boi
Member since Aug 01st 2003
20939 posts
Fri Nov-04-16 10:11 AM

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62. "RE: Okay."
In response to Reply # 61


  

          

>That was just a lot of words, and my response would've just
>been another version of my above reply in a lot of ways, so
>I'll spare us the time loop, lol.

lol at least you're self aware of it and I appreciate it.

>He's a very very good coach, regardless of whether you feel
>his system is rigid or flexible. At least we can hopefully
>agree on that.

I dig Hoi...was optimistic about him coming in. I just wasn't sure how our roster (last year or the new one) would work for his ideas. Last year, not as well as it could have, this year (so far) better than expected. I do think he's a system coach but he can and likely will grow beyond that.

____________

  

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LeroyBumpkin
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Tue Nov-01-16 01:25 PM

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47. "+1"
In response to Reply # 44


  

          

>rondo and wade not letting that shit fly this year.

Plus Fred is letting Rondo call plays.
Carlisle was not on that.

https://digife.com

  

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TheRealBillyOcean
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Tue Nov-01-16 01:39 PM

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48. "Interesting"
In response to Reply # 47


          

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

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LeroyBumpkin
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Tue Nov-01-16 03:15 PM

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51. "<--- admitted skeptic."
In response to Reply # 43


  

          

I'm still skeptic to be honest.
It's still the honeymoon period.
I still don't like how this team is constructed.
But what's apparent is that player attitude goes a long way.

Playoffs? I stand by nothing higher than a 5th seed.
I hope I'm wrong.

https://digife.com

  

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TheRealBillyOcean
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49. "Just in case I see people trying to be friends"
In response to Reply # 0


          

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=8&topic_id=2553574&mesg_id=2553574&listing_type=search#2553887

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

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auragin_boi
Member since Aug 01st 2003
20939 posts
Thu Nov-03-16 04:11 PM

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55. "1st L in Boston"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Pros: fought back and almost pulled it off against a team shooting pretty good. Keyed in on D in the second half. Offense still looked good.

Cons: too many TO's, Rondo needs to take those layups deep into the lane and stop forcing that pass that leads to TO's...they are playing him for the pass now, Even though it took us to go down double digits, Hoi recognized Felicio was having a bad night (ugh, he ruined the 2nd for us) and went with Portis in the second half...I'm just wondering why he didn't go back to Lopez who was playing well. D didn't start the game right, let Boston run out to a big lead.

Yeah, I think we're in decent shape. The more the team gels, the better this will all look come Mid December.

Next up is the reunion tour vs the Knicks tomorrow night. Ya boi will be in the building...right behind the Bulls bench. FUN!!!!

____________

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
21925 posts
Thu Nov-03-16 04:24 PM

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56. "wide open layup opportunity, nary a rotating defender in sight"
In response to Reply # 55


  

          

and this dude's trying to weave a pinpoint, zero-margin-for-error pass thru a thicket of bodies.

just shoot the damn thing.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
86672 posts
Thu Nov-03-16 04:31 PM

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58. "Be prepared to see a lot of that this season, lol."
In response to Reply # 56


  

          

There needs to be a YouTube supercut of Rondo passing up wide open layups to make passes.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
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LeroyBumpkin
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Thu Nov-03-16 08:46 PM

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59. "Hoiberg wanted to reward Portis/Mirotic"
In response to Reply # 55


  

          

...I'm just wondering why he
>didn't go back to Lopez who was playing well.

...since they were the ones to help spark the comeback.
Only problem in crunch time Boston went AT Portis every time.
We needed stops more than shooters out there.

https://digife.com

  

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LeroyBumpkin
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63. "@ the Rose/Noah homecoming."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Really great to hear people cheer Noah.
Surprised (but not surprised) at the mixed reaction Rose got.
I stood for both them dudes. Hope they both have healthy seasons.
When they showed that Noah breakaway dunk against Boston in tribute video?
Dude, that's a top 5 Bulls moment for me.

Outside of auragin and dula, 3 more of my people were at that game.
The ol' man got great seats. 200 section, right up against the wall of the box seats.

But yeah.
3-3
Still early.

https://digife.com

  

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LeroyBumpkin
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64. "10 Games In. 10 thoughts."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


- Butler has been playing amazing. To the level of Harden, Leonard and Westbrook.
- Why is Portis playing over Felicio?
- When Hoiberg's frontline doesn't consist of Lopez or Gibson, it's a train wreck. Every time.
- I'm rooting for Canaan. Hope dude gets paid.
- Our defensive switching has no structure. It's Harden-Vine embarrassing.
- I feel like Wade's turnaround jumper has rubbed off on Butler and McDermott.
- The circus trip and the rest of Nov. is brutal. POR UT LAC LAL DEN (2-3 at best).
- The only problem I have w/ Rondo is his passing IN the paint. He needs to find a way to score.
- I think auragin_boi's dream of a 4th seed can happen if Mirotic brings any sort of consistency.
- Ten games in and I'd still wish we had traded Butler for youth/draft picks.

https://digife.com

  

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auragin_boi
Member since Aug 01st 2003
20939 posts
Mon Nov-14-16 10:16 AM

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65. "10 for 10"
In response to Reply # 64


  

          

>- Butler has been playing amazing. To the level of Harden,
>Leonard and Westbrook.

Yes, he's doing well, not as well as Harden and Wessy but Leonard yeah.

>- Why is Portis playing over Felicio?

Because Felicio is fat? Seeing him in person at the Knicks game, I literally said out loud "He's too fat to be an NBA player" and like 5 people around me laughed and said they were thinking the same thing. lol But seriously, probably because he had a few bad halves and now Portis is doing ok in spot duty.

>- When Hoiberg's frontline doesn't consist of Lopez or Gibson,
>it's a train wreck. Every time.

Yeah, one of the good things about Taj off the bench was this fact. Niko unravels on D sometimes.

>- I'm rooting for Canaan. Hope dude gets paid.

Ditto...this is season 2 for me. I thought he was primed in Houston last year but it never panned out.

>- Our defensive switching has no structure. It's Harden-Vine
>embarrassing.

The switch of G to Big is painful. Rondo don't need to guard Gortat or Porzingis on a switch. ugh.

>- I feel like Wade's turnaround jumper has rubbed off on
>Butler and McDermott.

Astute. Hadn't thought of that.

>- The circus trip and the rest of Nov. is brutal. POR UT LAC
>LAL DEN (2-3 at best).

That's tough, not as bad as it could be. We can get 3 of those games (UT, LAL, DEN) and we always seem to play well against LAC. POR seems like a definite L but I wouldn't be that surprised if we beat them. I wanna say 3-2.

>- The only problem I have w/ Rondo is his passing IN the
>paint. He needs to find a way to score.

Echo from up top.

>- I think auragin_boi's dream of a 4th seed can happen if
>Mirotic brings any sort of consistency.

I think the bench just has to be consistent. Niko's off nights need to be supplemented by a good game from Doug, Caanan, Valentine or MCW.

>- Ten games in and I'd still wish we had traded Butler for
>youth/draft picks.

We all do bro. Lemonade tho.

____________

  

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Shogun
Member since Jun 25th 2003
3042 posts
Tue Nov-15-16 11:34 AM

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67. "Mirotic is definitely the X-factor. "
In response to Reply # 64


          

the rest is spot on.

  

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auragin_boi
Member since Aug 01st 2003
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Wed Nov-16-16 09:41 AM

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68. "I feel much better about that 3-2 now lol"
In response to Reply # 64


  

          

>- The circus trip and the rest of Nov. is brutal. POR UT LAC
>LAL DEN (2-3 at best).

Lakers game is gonna be tougher than expected though. UT and POR are historically tough road games for us but making light work of the Blazers makes me think we can make a statement this trip. I'd be elated with 4-1 or 5-0.

____________

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
21925 posts
Wed Nov-16-16 08:06 PM

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69. "fuck rondo."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

seriously, man. bench that nigga. trash on both ends. they'd be MUCH better off just putting another shooter out there in his stead and letting wade and butler take turns facilitating.

http://www.numberfire.com/nba/news/11415/the-chicago-bulls-have-figured-it-out

"When Rondo's been on the floor, the Bulls have put up an offensive rating of 108.3 and a defensive rating of 109.1 points per 100 possessions. Any time that he's been off, they've improved both of those numbers to 109.9 and 98.3, respectively. In terms of net rating, that's a difference of 12.4 points over the course of 100 possessions.

The Bulls are nearly 12 points better than opposing teams without him and almost a point worse with him.

I'm not saying that they need to get rid of Rondo -- though, if you're asking me, they should if they can get something of worth in return when he's eligible in mid-December. In all probability, he'll remain in Chicago, but this suggests that, for a free agent pickup, he's not much of a factor in today's NBA.

He can't consistently hit from deep, and he's not the defender he once was.

When you have this, you don't need that.

https://vine.co/v/5TAVZP0nbF1

Jimmy and D-Wade are running -- and will continue to run -- the show in Chi-town."

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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TheRealBillyOcean
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Wed Nov-23-16 12:00 PM

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71. "Bro?"
In response to Reply # 69


          

I haven't watched. He's been hurt though right. Seemed like he was himself yesterday.

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
21925 posts
Wed Nov-23-16 12:17 PM

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73. "yeah, man. he hasn't been good."
In response to Reply # 71


  

          

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/nbas-worst-summer-signings-thus-far/

they just look and play much much better when wade/butler run the show and a weak-side floor spacer is occupying that other slot.

last night was encouraging. he played well. need to see more of it.




>I haven't watched. He's been hurt though right. Seemed like
>he was himself yesterday.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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TheRealBillyOcean
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Wed Nov-23-16 01:16 PM

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74. "I'm not unreasonable, I'll take your word for it."
In response to Reply # 73


          

I've just watched the lines.

He's gotta find ways to contribute on offense and go all in on defense. And hit them free throws.

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
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Wed Nov-23-16 02:07 PM

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75. "he hit 3 or 4 midrange last night that all came out of the same action"
In response to Reply # 74


  

          

high ball screen, he turns the corner, defending big drops all the way into the paint, rondo pulls up right at the FT line without hesitation and buries the shot.

that's bread and butter right there. dude could eat real nice off that. they're giving it to him every time, he just needs to take it, instead of continuing his dribble into oblivion or trying to force a pass that ain't there.

and the thing is, i know he can hit that shot. i've attended a few games this year where i've watched him closely in warmups, and dude doesn't miss. like, he literally hits every single shot. it's uncanny. not sure why he's so hesitant in games.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
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Wed Nov-23-16 11:41 AM

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70. "enjoyed this comment from the blogabull nuggets game recap:"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

"Don't understand the hand-wringing over the last play at all.

Creeping determinism at its worst. A play with several actions, with Jimmy and Wade as the designed first options, still managed to get an wide open 3 when those options were taken away. If Canaan makes it, people are talking about the improvement in Hoiberg’s ATOs. As THJ pointed out, Thibs regularly designed plays for role players using stars as decoys. And it’s pretty standard practice to have your best shooters in for such a play, even if they’ve been resting or shooting poorly. Canaan was like 3 days removed from knocking down a similar shot against the Clips to pull the Bulls within a possession. Alternatively, if they try to force the ball to a well-covered Jimmy and turn it over, people are now posting Vines highlighting how wide open Canaan, one of the Bulls best shooters, was.

Also don’t understand the Felicio obsession. Fred tried to run a lineup with Felicio and Niko anchoring against the Lakers, and LA promptly went on an 8-0 run in the span of like 90 seconds. The fact of the matter is that the Bulls only have two front court players capable of anchoring a defense, and you can’t play them the entire game. 39 and 35 minutes for Taj and RoLo is dangerous territory, and I’m already dreading the exertion-induced annual Taj ankle injury that kills his effectiveness for the rest of the year. Portis played 8 minutes this game.

I was at this game, and you know what? I don’t really care about this loss. Jimmy Butler is the real fucking deal. I had three different Nuggets fans turn to me, me in my Butler jersey, at different points during the game and just start laughing after Jimmy made a play. One of them started asking me where he played college ball at and how they hadn’t heard of him before. She said Jimmy Butler was the most impressive player she’d seen so far this year, and she’d been to the Warriors game like two weeks earlier. My entire section was dumbfounded when he made that 3 ball to tie it up. Awesome feeling.

Are the Bulls good? The Bulls starters are great. The Bulls bench is mediocre, has no defensive identity, and is missing its two best players. Let’s not overthink this.

Jimmy Butler has probably half a decade of prime performance left (maybe a little less given his play style) and it’s becoming clear that yes – you can build a contender around him. Still hoping for a nice playoff run, but this year is all about finding out what guys are gonna be around to supplement Jimmy moving forward, and what guys aren’t. November of this year is the perfect time to do that. Let’s gooooo."

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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auragin_boi
Member since Aug 01st 2003
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Wed Nov-23-16 12:13 PM

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72. "Spot on...it was a good play"
In response to Reply # 70


  

          

And i did recall the 3 vs the clips that he drained. But down 2, with Jimmy cooking, I WANTED him to get it. Wasn't mad at a wide open 3 though. Canaan just flub it.

I think our bench is working through it's identity. I think when it finally pans out, it'll look like:

MCW
Valentine
Mcdermott
Niko
Felicio/Portis

I think there will be some overlap with the starters obviously but MCW is a good defender and rebounder from the G spot so that makes them better in that regard.

____________

  

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LeroyBumpkin
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76. "I feel like Felicio is a better option"
In response to Reply # 70


  

          

...simply based on his size. Both Portis and Mirotic get beat up so much in the paint. That run the Nuggets went on last night is a prime example. Plus I recall Felicio playing solid at the end of last season, even on the defensive end as a rim protector. Not amazing, but serviceable. And that's what need, serviceable. Portis and Mirotic can't even do that. Every once in a while Niko can have a big night (15 rebounds against the Lakers).

The silver lining I'm pulling from Fred not playing Felicio is that:

1. Portis has 2 years left on his rookie deal, so he's gonna be here.
Might as well see what he's going to be.

2. The extra playing time may result in him being serviceable come May.
We just have to take our lumps now.

As for the Canaan shot, I'm cool with it.

https://digife.com

  

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DVS
Member since Sep 13th 2002
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Fri Nov-25-16 01:48 PM

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77. "I'ma see how y'all talk when MCW gets back"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

We had a VERY small sampling before he went down but let me tell you...

I think MCW is going to be a key cog in anything we do this year.

What does MCW bring? Well...it's not shooting.

He gives you PRESSURE

One of the biggest things we've seen with the 2nd unit is that either JB or Wade has to be out there in order to apply pressure to the defense.

The 2nd unit needs someone who is able to collapse the middle and provide openings for other players. The shots don't have to come from deep...they just need to come with some fucking SPACE in order for them to thrive.

MCW was stepping into that role before he went down. On any given play, MCW was able to drive straight to the middle as a capable scorer around the basket.

Take him away and now you have JB or Wade trying to play that role on spent legs.

Put him in and then stagger JB or Wade as a secondary penetrator and THE WHEELS ON THE BUS GO ROUND AND ROUND!

I like Canaan but he's at his best when he can penetrate with another viable threat on the floor, or taking advantage of a defensive breakdown.

MCW gonna change shit.

Mark my words

D

vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

Waldorf and Statler Vol 4:CONAN IS OUT NOW!!!: http://waldorfandstatler.bandcamp.com

and don't forget to check "DVS 4 ALDERMAN"

http://windimoto.bandcamp.com/album/dvs-4-alderman-bandcamp-exclusive-expanded-editio

  

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LeroyBumpkin
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78. "Ha. Well he's out another 4-6 weeks."
In response to Reply # 77


  

          

https://digife.com

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
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Sat Nov-26-16 10:48 AM

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83. "from my understanding"
In response to Reply # 78


  

          

it's 4-6 weeks from the original injury, not in addition.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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LeroyBumpkin
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85. "that's better."
In response to Reply # 83


  

          

I thought they had found something new and added additional time which, for an organization with a history of poor diagnoses, wouldn't be surprising.

https://digife.com

  

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auragin_boi
Member since Aug 01st 2003
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Sat Nov-26-16 12:31 PM

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86. "Nah, it's another 4-6 weeks"
In response to Reply # 83


  

          

They are talking about him coming back in January.

Supposedly the wrist injury is the issue. He has a chipped bone and some swelling. They are gonna reevaluate him in 2 weeks.

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nba/2119/michael-carter-williams

____________

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
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Sat Nov-26-16 01:41 PM

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88. "no, that was a misunderstanding. already been clarified."
In response to Reply # 86
Sat Nov-26-16 01:48 PM by dula dibiasi

  

          

https://twitter.com/vgoodwill/status/802298530127867904
http://www.nba.com/bulls/news/carter-williams-injury-update
http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2016/11/25/bulls-michael-carter-williams-has-bone-chip-in-wrist-out-at-least-2-more-weeks/

the team statement is admittedly a little confusing, but the "4-6 weeks" is from the date of the original injury.

he's currently @ 4 weeks. so (fingers crossed) another 2.






>They are talking about him coming back in January.
>
>Supposedly the wrist injury is the issue. He has a chipped
>bone and some swelling. They are gonna reevaluate him in 2
>weeks.
>
>http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nba/2119/michael-carter-williams

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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auragin_boi
Member since Aug 01st 2003
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89. "Ah ok...gotcha."
In response to Reply # 88


  

          

____________

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
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79. "good game, rondo."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
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80. "JB circus trip #s: 28.3 p, 8.2 r, 3.8 a, 50.5 fg, 41.2 3p, 87.9 ft, +65"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
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81. "#2 in the east, with 9 of the next 12 at the crib."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

not too shabby. way better than i expected.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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RandomFact
Member since Dec 10th 2005
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82. "legit fun team to watch. "
In response to Reply # 81
Fri Nov-25-16 11:47 PM by RandomFact

  

          

obviously everyone thought it would be the exact opposite.

they compete on defense, move the ball on offense. after last year it feels weird to be watching this.

  

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auragin_boi
Member since Aug 01st 2003
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87. "Not me!"
In response to Reply # 82


  

          

>obviously everyone thought it would be the exact opposite.

I've been saying 45-50 wins, since this summer even.

My rationale was all the adversity we went through last year and still ended up 42-40. 3-8 more wins seemed easily attainable.

Not sure if we're a contender (I'd bet against that) but we could easily give Toronto and Boston fits in a 7 game series with a STRONG possibility of winning. The issues would arrive after those two (Cleveland or anyone in a potential finals matchup).

With health though, I like our chances.

____________

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
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Sat Nov-26-16 10:55 AM

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84. "jimmy butler's career year by the numbers:"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://www.blogabull.com/2016/11/24/13745492/jimmy-butlers-career-year-by-the-numbers

Much has been said and written about Jimmy Butler by Bulls beat writers and fans alike so far this season, and with good reason. Despite drastic improvements in each of the last two seasons, nobody seemed to predict anything close to the leap that Butler seems to have made so far in his current campaign. I remember Chris Vernon laughing his ass off on The Ringer NBA Show Podcast about the seemingly ridiculous notion that the Bulls were Jimmy Butler’s team as declared by Dwyane Wade. Chris Vernon was dead wrong.

One of the most impressive things about Butler’s play through 15 games is that he is thriving on a roster without much in the way or reliable shooting, other capable perimeter defenders or reliable depth (let’s never talk about that Denver game again).

With all of that being said I thought it would be an interesting exercise to look at some of the stand out stats that highlight just how good Jimmy Buckets has been in his current campaign.

Jimmy Butler Basic Stats

25.8 PPG (career high)

48% FG% (career high)

42.3% 3P% (career high)

6.8 RPG (career high)

4.1 APG

Butler is currently 10th in points per game, but is dominating the ball less than anyone putting up more raw numbers. At 16.4 field goal attempts per game, he is taking less shots than everyone else in the top 10 in scoring. In fact Blake Griffin (20th) is the only player in the top 20 taking less shots than Butler is, and he is scoring 21.9 points per game on 15.7 field goal attempts.

While Butler admittedly doesn’t shoot an especially high volume of threes, it is encouraging to note that Butler’s that out of the league’s top 10 scorers only Kevin Durant is making a greater percentage of his looks from distance (Butler’s percentage of .423 is identical to Steph Curry).

Jimmy Butler Advanced Stats

Offensive Rating : 129.8 (3rd overall)

Offensive Win Shares: 2.8 (2nd overall)

Win Shares: 3.4 (2nd overall)

Win Shares per 48 Minutes: (2nd overall)

Box Plus/Minus: 7.9 (7th overall)

Offensive Box Plus/Minus: 8.1 (6th overall)

Value Over Replacement Player: 1.3 (4th overall)

Player Efficiency Rating (PER): 29 (6th overall)

There it is folks. The numbers confirm exactly what the eye test has been telling you, which is that Jimmy Butler has firmly established himself in the conversation of the absolute elite players of the league such as Chris Paul, Steph Curry, Kawhi Leonard, Kevin Durant, James Harden etc. Jimmy is also ranked 4th in RPM at this point in time.

Regression of some kind would not be shocking, as we are not even 20% through the season quite yet. However with 15 games and more than 500 minutes played, this is not as small a sample size to judge from as you might have thought. For the sake of the team, let’s hope that Jimmy Butler’s career year continues on its current trajectory.

Thank god GarPax managed to not shit the bed and trade our franchise player for Jaylen fuckin Brown or Kris fuckin Dunn.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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94. "http://i.giphy.com/1049ukAOov8bni.gif"
In response to Reply # 84


  

          

http://i.giphy.com/1049ukAOov8bni.gif

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

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ShawndmeSlanted
Member since Oct 30th 2004
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Mon Dec-05-16 11:46 AM

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90. "hmmmmm any details guys"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

https://twitter.com/MarcJSpearsESPN/status/805812688613875712

---
"though time has passed, im still the future" (c) black thought

  

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okayplayery
Member since Aug 25th 2012
518 posts
Mon Dec-05-16 11:52 AM

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91. "Another dumb coach trying to tell Rondo how to do his job"
In response to Reply # 90


          

Either that or Wade snitching!

  

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ShawndmeSlanted
Member since Oct 30th 2004
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Mon Dec-05-16 12:15 PM

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92. "got into it with asst"
In response to Reply # 91
Mon Dec-05-16 12:16 PM by ShawndmeSlanted

  

          

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/5gn1x0/wojnarowski_rajon_rondo_suspended_for_tonights/


i dont get why you have to suspend him if it was a part of teh game. He apologized and moved on.

---
"though time has passed, im still the future" (c) black thought

  

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murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
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Mon Dec-05-16 12:40 PM

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95. "RE: Another dumb coach trying to tell Rondo how to do his job"
In response to Reply # 91
Mon Dec-05-16 12:50 PM by murph71

          

>Either that or Wade snitching!


There's a pattern here though.....

Also, we def. needed Rondo when Wade was out. There was something def. going on there. That nasty L against Dallas was troubling. Truth be told, I don't care if Rondo is a the asshole of all assholes as long as he produces. But he has to produce when we need it most.... And if the reports r true that he was tanking that game just to prove a point, I can't....

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

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Cenario
Member since Aug 24th 2005
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93. "damn smh"
In response to Reply # 90


  

          

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

  

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LeroyBumpkin
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96. "Can this team win w/o consistent 3pt shooting?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Legit question from @Bulls_Jay:

"In the end, you can only be so good offensively if you can't shoot 3s. This was always a fundamental problem of this Bulls team. Obvious. Bulls have been able to somewhat make up for it thanks to those free throws and offensive rebounds, but ceiling is so clearly capped."

https://digife.com

  

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murph71
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Fri Dec-16-16 09:12 AM

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98. "RE: Can this team win w/o consistent 3pt shooting?"
In response to Reply # 96


          



No....

And it's more than that a lack of 3 pt shooting....This team seems to lumber on the court. They r stiff. No athleticism.....No speed. We r getting dusted and run off of the court....

If Jimmy ain;t being Jimmy, we are pretty much a barely .500 team....

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

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Shogun
Member since Jun 25th 2003
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Fri Dec-16-16 07:53 AM

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97. "are we panicking yet?"
In response to Reply # 0


          

I have NO idea what to expect from this team. We beat the Cavs, then lay back-to-back eggs against the T-Wolves and Bucks.


___________

Back again for the first time.

  

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murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
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Fri Dec-16-16 09:14 AM

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99. "RE: are we panicking yet?"
In response to Reply # 97


          

>I have NO idea what to expect from this team. We beat the
>Cavs, then lay back-to-back eggs against the T-Wolves and
>Bucks.


No so much panicking, but coming to the reality that this is a heavily flawed team.....

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

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DVS
Member since Sep 13th 2002
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Fri Dec-16-16 10:05 AM

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100. "I've pretty much checked out"
In response to Reply # 97


  

          

This is a team that needs a perfect storm to win.

Rondo, Wade, Butler, Taj and Lopes ALL have to be healthy.
Wade, Butler and one of either McDermott or Niko ALL need to be hitting their threes to open the middle.
Niko, McDermott, Portis and Grant/Canaan/Carter-Williams ALL need to keep their mental lapses to a minimum.

....AAAAAND the opposing team can't get hot from 3.

If they make the playoffs they won't make it past the 2nd round.
If they get on a run they are guaranteed to lose a few in a row immediately afterwards because there just ain't that much perfect in the world.

This season is a wrap....I'll watch because I'm die hard but it won't be fun.

D

vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

Waldorf and Statler Vol 4:CONAN IS OUT NOW!!!: http://waldorfandstatler.bandcamp.com

and don't forget to check "DVS 4 ALDERMAN"

http://windimoto.bandcamp.com/album/dvs-4-alderman-bandcamp-exclusive-expanded-editio

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
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Fri Dec-16-16 10:18 AM

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101. "panic?"
In response to Reply # 97


  

          

nothing to panic about. they're just not that good.

one great player in his prime, one all-timer in his twilight, a couple of good role guys.

at their best they can play with anyone, but their ceiling is pretty evident. as long as your expectations are realistic, it should be an enjoyable enough season. a few highlights sprinkled here and there, but nothing to get excited over.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
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Fri Dec-16-16 10:22 AM

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102. "RE: panic?"
In response to Reply # 101


          


>at their best they can play with anyone, but their ceiling is
>pretty evident. as long as your expectations are realistic, it
>should be an enjoyable enough season. a few highlights
>sprinkled here and there, but nothing to get excited over.


I think Bulls fan want a little more than just this^^^^^...lol

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
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Fri Dec-16-16 10:48 AM

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103. "good luck with that."
In response to Reply # 102


  

          

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
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Fri Dec-16-16 11:26 AM

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104. "RE: good luck with that."
In response to Reply # 103


          



Indeed....lol

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

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LeroyBumpkin
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Tue Dec-20-16 06:35 PM

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105. "Great interview w/ Taj Gibson (swipe)"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/how-a-fight-on-a-new-york-train-laid-the-foundation-for-taj-gibsons-career/

https://digife.com

  

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RandomFact
Member since Dec 10th 2005
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Tue Dec-20-16 08:28 PM

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106. "One of the most likable Bulls of all time. And a real dude. "
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>http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/how-a-fight-on-a-new-york-train-laid-the-foundation-for-taj-gibsons-career/
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LeroyBumpkin
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Sun Dec-25-16 08:30 PM

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107. "GarPax's Draft Day Blunders (swipe)"
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A discussion over at blog a bull.

http://www.blogabull.com/2016/12/22/14066612/bulls-draft-day-blunders

A short list of Bulls' draft picks, and who was available were they to redo the draft.

2012 - Pick 29 - Marquis Teague

Pick 34 (2nd Round) - Jae Crowder
Pick 35 (2nd Round) - Draymond Green
Pick 39 (2nd Round) - Khris Middleton

2013 - Pick 20 - Tony Snell

Pick 21 - Gorgui Dieng
Pick 22 - Mason Plumlee
Pick 27 - Rudy Gobert

2014 - Pick 11 - Doug McDermott (Traded picks 16&19)

Pick 16 - Jusuf Nurkic
Pick 19 - Gary Harris
Pick 23 - Rodney Hood
Pick 25 - Clint Capella
Pick 30 - Kyle Anderson

2015 - Pick 22 - Bobby Portis
Pick 23 - Rondae Hollis-Jefferson
Pick 27 - Larry Nance Jr.

Bulls' Potential 2016-17 Starting Lineup:

C Rudy Gobert
PF/C Draymond Green
SF Jimmy Butler
SG Rodney Hood
PG Kyle Anderson

https://digife.com

  

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LeroyBumpkin
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Sun Dec-25-16 08:37 PM

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108. "Paxson Addresses State Of The Bulls (swipe)"
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https://theathletic.com/31222/2016/12/25/john-paxson-addresses-state-of-the-bulls-in-christmas-radio-interview/

John Paxson addresses state of the Bulls in Christmas radio interview

I thought this was the most interesting:

Not all of Paxson’s forecast for the Bulls was gloomy. He was effusive in his praise for Wade, particularly singling out his professionalism. But even though Wade is one of the most highly respected stars in the league, Paxson cautioned fans against getting their hopes up that his presence will help them recruit big-name free agents next season. (For one thing, Wade has a player option after the season, meaning he can leave if the Bulls’ situation isn’t palatable.)

“You can’t count on that,” Paxson said. “I guess in your dreams you hope something like that might happen, but if you’re counting on that, to me, that’s not a plan. You’re just kind of hoping and wishing. That wasn’t a consideration. We looked at it as Dwyane was available in the short term, we hadn’t done anything to get up high in last year’s draft or anything to try to get really young and rebuild and we made that choice … that’s what we were looking at this past summer. So he’s been great. I think he’s been a real positive for this organization.”

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LeroyBumpkin
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Thu Feb-23-17 07:11 PM

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109. "This Bulls FO can't evaluate talent."
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They can't.
So, I'm not in a big rush to rebuild.
Not with these guys running it.

https://digife.com

  

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