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Subject: "Frank Vogel officially out" Previous topic | Next topic
ShawndmeSlanted
Member since Oct 30th 2004
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Thu May-05-16 10:05 AM

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"Frank Vogel officially out"
Thu May-05-16 10:06 AM by ShawndmeSlanted

  

          


not fired, but just not renewed

knicks may retread

---
"though time has passed, im still the future" (c) black thought

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
I don't feel one way or another about dude, but it feels like he might h...
May 05th 2016
1
Not surprising given what Bird has been saying recently.
May 05th 2016
2
They may overhaul everything including roster and mascots
May 05th 2016
4
      And then hire a black coach, fire him when they are bad
May 05th 2016
7
they gon holla at mark jackson
May 05th 2016
3
Good decision and no surprise
May 05th 2016
5
Paul George leaves, then they hire a black coach to a shit team
May 05th 2016
6
He is under contract for at least two more seasons.
May 05th 2016
9
Bird wants an offensive minded coach.
May 05th 2016
13
      It's called being white. That is what whiteness gets you
May 05th 2016
17
           You gonna be ok? you got like an uncontrollable tick
May 05th 2016
25
                Oh, doing glorious.
May 06th 2016
28
Good move, he didn't suck but he wasn't taking them anywhere
May 05th 2016
8
Thought he did a great job the last two years, considering the roster.
May 05th 2016
10
100% agree..however is offense has always been some bullish
May 05th 2016
11
How many coaches could do better with this roster, though?
May 05th 2016
12
      probably none, i mean they def overachieved this year imo
May 05th 2016
14
           And post, until Vogel.
May 05th 2016
15
                It's tough to know
May 05th 2016
18
Dude is the new Jeff Van Gundy
May 05th 2016
20
      pretty good comparison, personalities seem kind of similar, too
May 05th 2016
23
           LMAO. They are nothing alike, at all.
May 06th 2016
29
Hornacek gets this?
May 05th 2016
16
Mark Jackson played for Bird
May 05th 2016
19
This article makes Larry Bird look weird af:
May 05th 2016
21
Odd memory there.
May 05th 2016
22
Forgot about that whole don't wanna play pf th8ng
May 06th 2016
27
https://twitter.com/haralabob/status/728368502369718273
May 05th 2016
24
Vogel to Wittman?
May 06th 2016
26

Dstl1
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Thu May-05-16 10:07 AM

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1. "I don't feel one way or another about dude, but it feels like he might h..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

lost them at least one game in that Toronto series.

...I'm from the era when A.I. was the answer, now they think ai is the answer - Marlon Craft

  

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Ryan M
Member since Oct 21st 2002
43743 posts
Thu May-05-16 10:10 AM

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2. "Not surprising given what Bird has been saying recently. "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

That team needs a fresh start.

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

  

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ShawndmeSlanted
Member since Oct 30th 2004
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Thu May-05-16 10:21 AM

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4. "They may overhaul everything including roster and mascots"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

perfect time to unload PG

---
"though time has passed, im still the future" (c) black thought

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Thu May-05-16 10:45 AM

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7. "And then hire a black coach, fire him when they are bad"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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Cenario
Member since Aug 24th 2005
59180 posts
Thu May-05-16 10:14 AM

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3. "they gon holla at mark jackson"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

  

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LA2Philly
Member since Oct 18th 2004
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Thu May-05-16 10:35 AM

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5. "Good decision and no surprise "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Larry legend has been hinting at this...their offensive efficiency under Vogel has been terrible.

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Thu May-05-16 10:44 AM

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6. "Paul George leaves, then they hire a black coach to a shit team"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


Watch.

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71387 posts
Thu May-05-16 11:05 AM

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9. "He is under contract for at least two more seasons."
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

Player option for a third but you know he is declining that unless he gets injured/sorry somehow.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
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Thu May-05-16 12:28 PM

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13. "Bird wants an offensive minded coach."
In response to Reply # 6


          

They're looking at Hornacek, apparently.

Ken Berger tweeted: "Bird wants to score more points; Hornacek lifted Suns from 29th in offensive rating to 8th in 2013-14."

Berger fails to mention that, in Hornacek's following two seasons, the Suns fell to 16th and 28th in offensive rating

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Thu May-05-16 02:23 PM

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17. "It's called being white. That is what whiteness gets you "
In response to Reply # 13


  

          


>Berger fails to mention that, in Hornacek's following two
>seasons, the Suns fell to 16th and 28th in offensive rating

When you're white, your flaws are always overlooked.

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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GOMEZ
Member since Feb 13th 2003
5613 posts
Thu May-05-16 06:57 PM

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25. "You gonna be ok? you got like an uncontrollable tick "
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

any time someone posts something about a basketball coach you short circuit into auto-agenda mode and post the same shit over and over again.

In a generation of swine, the one-eyed pig is king.
-Hunter S. Thompson

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Fri May-06-16 08:02 AM

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28. "Oh, doing glorious. "
In response to Reply # 25


  

          


I'm a black guy who works in one of the whitest worlds, so I
know how this type of thing works, which explains my auto
understanding of this world.

The evidence (which I'm compiling) is shocking on these
things.

So it isn't much of an "Agenda." I just see things you guys
don't, which is just...a fact. Sorry.


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71387 posts
Thu May-05-16 11:04 AM

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8. "Good move, he didn't suck but he wasn't taking them anywhere"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Offense was a cheesy ass dribble-fest, defense wasn't all that consistent either. They may have accomplished right around what they could have but they didn't come close to over-achieving. They turned over almost everything around PG so the coach seemed like a natural next step, especially with his deal up.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Thu May-05-16 11:34 AM

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10. "Thought he did a great job the last two years, considering the roster."
In response to Reply # 0
Thu May-05-16 12:02 PM by Frank Longo

  

          

He was one of the hottest coaches in the NBA until George went down two years ago.

Last year, his leading scorer was George Hill, and he got astonishingly close to .500. Hill is fine if he's your third or fourth option, but as first?

This year, took Toronto to 7 with Paul George, the ghost of Monta Ellis, and change. All things considered (he damn near reached the second round), I think he did work. The offense wasn't good, but who were his options down the bench? CJ Miles? Lavoy Allen? Rodney Stuckey? Chase Budinger? You put George Hill and Monta Ellis in a backcourt together, and you're surprised the ball doesn't move as much as it should?

Outside of George (and Turner, but he still needs time), they simply don't have a roster built to win. Vogel can go somewhere else and immediately be in a better position. (So can George, really.)

Edit: I agree with this piece: http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/news/larry-bird-frank-vogel-contract-indiana-pacers-paul-george/1rgzmrt6okr3c12sbhgtuu4b9k?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

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Cenario
Member since Aug 24th 2005
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Thu May-05-16 12:05 PM

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11. "100% agree..however is offense has always been some bullish"
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

then again, he got the most out of LAnce.

He did an excellent job the last 2 seasons but a change is understandable at this point time being that his contract is up and there a few good candidates available.

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Thu May-05-16 12:27 PM

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12. "How many coaches could do better with this roster, though?"
In response to Reply # 11
Thu May-05-16 12:29 PM by Frank Longo

  

          

George, Turner, and a bunch of random dudes, has-beens, and never-wases.

How many coaches on the market have a 50+ win season under their belts? And why would any of them go to Indiana of all places, especially with that roster?

Did you know that this was the tenth best season in Pacer history in terms of wins? Out of forty seasons, Vogel led *this roster* to a season that places in the top 25% of every Pacer season ever. The ten best seasons in Pacer history-- seven of them were the Reggie Miller era, the other three were the Frank Vogel era. AND ONE OF THEM WAS THIS SEASON. WITH THIS ROSTER.

Vogel is probably dancing down the street right now to be out of there.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

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Cenario
Member since Aug 24th 2005
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Thu May-05-16 12:33 PM

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14. "probably none, i mean they def overachieved this year imo"
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

i didn't even think they'd make the playoffs.

As far as it being a top 10 season, that just goes to show how crappy the team was before Reggie Miller era lol

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

  

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Frank Longo
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Thu May-05-16 12:40 PM

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15. "And post, until Vogel."
In response to Reply # 14


  

          


>As far as it being a top 10 season, that just goes to show how
>crappy the team was before Reggie Miller era lol

You've got seven Reggie seasons and three Vogel/George seasons.

I think people also forget just how raw George was coming into the league. Vogel oversaw his development-- it's quite possible he's not the star he is today without Vogel's guidance.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

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Numba_33
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Thu May-05-16 02:49 PM

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18. "It's tough to know"
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

if Vogel and the front office clashed in terms their outlook/philosophy and the firing may not completely be based on strictly stuff that's knowledgeable to folks that watch games.

"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.

  

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FILF
Member since Jun 01st 2007
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Thu May-05-16 04:39 PM

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20. "Dude is the new Jeff Van Gundy"
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

-Excellent defense
-Overachieves
-Stagnant offense

WHAT'S GOOD *****? What's REALLY good?!?!????!!! Ha HA!
http://40.media.tumblr.com/d8e2daf9f3f37244cd05436bcdf05973/tumblr_mt4qibKq4c1rgam01o1_1280.png

  

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ConcreteCharlie
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Thu May-05-16 06:27 PM

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23. "pretty good comparison, personalities seem kind of similar, too"
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

he is just not as sarcastic as JVG

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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Fri May-06-16 08:03 AM

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29. "LMAO. They are nothing alike, at all. "
In response to Reply # 23


  

          

>he is just not as sarcastic as JVG

LMAO. That's like someone is just like Dave Chappelle,
just not as funny

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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gmltheone
Member since Jun 11th 2003
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Thu May-05-16 01:25 PM

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16. "Hornacek gets this? "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


----------------------------
Same as it ever was!

  

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FILF
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Thu May-05-16 04:37 PM

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19. "Mark Jackson played for Bird"
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

WHAT'S GOOD *****? What's REALLY good?!?!????!!! Ha HA!
http://40.media.tumblr.com/d8e2daf9f3f37244cd05436bcdf05973/tumblr_mt4qibKq4c1rgam01o1_1280.png

  

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dEs
Member since Sep 01st 2006
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Thu May-05-16 05:37 PM

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21. "This article makes Larry Bird look weird af:"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

particularly, Bird's arbitrary "3 year limit" on coaches and his claim
that he would've "bothered" Paul George by asking him how he
felt about possibly moving to power forward

http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/columnists/gregg-doyel/2016/05/05/doyel-frank-vogel-falls-victim-larry-birds-warped-thinking/83978554/

excerpt:


But Bird is getting rid of his overachieving coach because of 1983.
And 1988. Here’s Bird defending the decision:

“Just the history. I’ve been around the history of the game for a lot
of years. My experience has been, good coaches leave after three
years. I played for Bill Fitch and I’ve seen it happen firsthand.
I’ve talked to Red Auerbach on the subject a lot. We had K.C. Jones
for five years. Nicest man I ever met. And they let him go. And we
were having success.”

Bird uses history selectively. Auerbach got rid of Bill Fitch after
losing in the 1983 Eastern Conference semifinals, and that worked
out. K.C. Jones replaced him and reached the NBA finals his first
four years, winning two titles. The new voice worked. Bird remembers that.

Auerbach moved on from K.C. Jones after his fifth year, when the
Celtics lost in the conference finals. Auerbach replaced him with
Jimmy Rodgers, who lost in the first round twice and was fired. The new voice was a disaster.

Did Bird forget that?

When he became Pacers coach in 1997, Bird told anyone who would
listen that he would leave after three years. People didn’t believe
him. He led the Pacers to the Eastern Conference finals all three
years, including the 2000 NBA Finals, then retired to give the Pacers
a new voice. Bird remembers that.

The Pacers replaced him with Isiah Thomas, who bombed.

Did Bird forget that?

“This goes back a long time ago,” Bird said, reminding us that he
knows what he knew. “I’ve seen it. And after a certain number of
years, it’s time to make a move, and that’s how I feel.”

Interesting, the three-year shelf life Bird assigns a coach. The
Pacers have just three players who have been with the team longer,
and one (Ian Mahinmi) is a free agent. The other two are Paul George
and George Hill. Did Larry Bird really say goodbye to a good coach
just so two players can hear a new “voice”?

...

This season didn’t go wrong because of Frank Vogel. It didn’t go
wrong at all, but it wasn’t great for the same reason Vogel is out of
a job: because Larry Bird runs his franchise straight out of the mid-1980s.

Back then, see, Red Auerbach didn’t seek input from players. Not even
from a player as good as Larry Bird.

“He didn’t want my opinion on anything,” Bird said Thursday.

Bird remembered that as he was putting his 2015-16 roster together,
deciding small forward Paul George would move to power forward in an
up-tempo attack. Bird never sought George’s input on that decision.
Just made it on his own, even with George coming off a gruesomely broken leg.

“I don’t like to bother my players,” Bird said. “When I played, I
didn’t want the front office bothering me.”

Pity he never bothered Paul George, because maybe Bird would have
learned George didn’t want to switch positions, would basically
refuse to do it. Forced to return George to the wing and start the
even smaller C.J. Miles at power forward, Vogel eventually had no
choice but to return to a traditional, two-big lineup – despite a
roster put together by Bird to play smaller. That left Vogel starting
two non-starters, Mahinmi and Allen, in the frontcourt until Turner developed.

And still this team won 47 games.

http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/columnists/gregg-doyel/2016/05/05/doyel-frank-vogel-falls-victim-larry-birds-warped-thinking/83978554/

_____

shann.email/inbox.pls.

  

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SoulHonky
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Thu May-05-16 06:14 PM

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22. "Odd memory there."
In response to Reply # 21


          

Auerbach coached for a long time. After Russell retired, Heinsohn coached the C's for a while.

Bill Fitch resigned because the team hated him.

KC Jones announced he was retiring during the playoffs. Maybe he was forced out but this is the first I've heard that angle.

As a Celtics fan, I love Larry but I would never want him running the Celtics.

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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Cenario
Member since Aug 24th 2005
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Fri May-06-16 06:02 AM

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27. "Forgot about that whole don't wanna play pf th8ng"
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
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Thu May-05-16 06:42 PM

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24. "https://twitter.com/haralabob/status/728368502369718273"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

https://twitter.com/haralabob/status/728368502369718273

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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B.J.S.301
Member since Nov 30th 2005
7074 posts
Fri May-06-16 03:39 AM

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26. "Vogel to Wittman?"
In response to Reply # 24


          

When Larry getting fired? That is a catastrophe.

  

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