----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God

I cant even listen to the radio or speak to anyone older than 30 with out hearing a soliloquy filled with bitching.


But what the bitching never contains is an alternative. Not one resemblances of a plan.


And nothing pinpoints the idiots more than the talk about attracting free agents. Over paying for serviceable players w/o two or more all stars on your team already is the ultimate signs of PANIC.


TAMPONS AND CAMOMILE FOR YOU ALL.

"hey, make this right mayne
stop at the light mayne,
my yester night thang got me hung off the night train "

that makes zero fucking sense. You knew this was, essentially, a five-year process from the moment we traded Jrue. We are going into year three. Why start shitting yourself now? BUY THE TICKET, TAKE THE RIDE.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

If you dont have that ONE guy your chance to win is pretty much zero.


Which is why I'm not putting any years on it because its already been 30 plus years. We need the next Bron and I dont see the next Bron. But until then, a 15 man roster full of Lottery picks is a nice consolation prize. Especially when the GM seems to know talent.

"hey, make this right mayne
stop at the light mayne,
my yester night thang got me hung off the night train "

Hinkie has done a good job finding guys who were under-utilized or slept on in the draft. Wroten and McDaniels head that list, plus he found top rookies well below the top spot with MCW and Noel.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

You have to have at least one great player but he doesn't have to fucking Lebron James for chrissakes.

I'm from the lost black tribe of Israel, the Yos

http://coolehmag.com/frontEnd/

Not LeBron but awfully close. You look at the past 25 years:

Jordan wins six out of eight, Hakeem wins the other two. Each guy was unquestionably the best player on the planet when they won.

Then you have Tim and Shaq each get their first as they vied for individual supremacy. They would go on to combine for nine rings.

Kobe was if not the best definitely in the top 3 when he won his second set of rings.

LeBron has been the best and we see what he has done, two titles, six finals. He's been bested by similar caliber players (top 5) in Duncan and Curry, I might throw Dirk in there, especially the way he played in those playoffs. Maybe Dallas is a partial exception, and the Pistons certainly broke the mold. It was no accident that unlike the teams like by Shaq, Duncan, Jordan, LeBron, Kobe and Hakeem, they both won one title instead of multiple rings.

So, sure, theoretically you can win without the very best player or arguably the very best player, but it's pretty unlikely.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

Or point to the Pistons or Celtics in recent years, where they were the exceptions not the rule.

One chip is nice but a dynasty is the goal.

"hey, make this right mayne
stop at the light mayne,
my yester night thang got me hung off the night train "

You had three guys who were at one recent point if not right then top 10 players in the league, plus another all-star in the making. No one could say they weren't stacked.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

Three years from NOW to make the 'offs in the worst Eastern Conference in recent memory????


Chip Kelly and Hinkie have managed to do the unthinkable; turn mouthbreathing Philadelphia sports fans into mathnerds and philosophers.

I'm from the lost black tribe of Israel, the Yos

http://coolehmag.com/frontEnd/

Kelly is in a different league and a different situation. That muthafucka better deliver.

As bad as the East is, there are teams that haven't qualified for the playoffs in multiple seasons and many more who have not qualified in any meaningful way. I am not talking about backing into some 34-win 8th seed, I mean a solid berth.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

>Kelly is in a different league and a different situation.
>That muthafucka better deliver.

Agreed. But his process has been just as unprecedented, perhaps moreso, in a much less forgiving league. And he also strongarmed himself into a GM position in record time.

What do you think he has to deliver and by when? If anything, all this shuffling has given him more time, no?

>
>As bad as the East is, there are teams that haven't qualified
>for the playoffs in multiple seasons and many more who have
>not qualified in any meaningful way. I am not talking about
>backing into some 34-win 8th seed, I mean a solid berth.

Well, given the state of the East, not making the playoffs for the next three years would seem to require the same sort of intentional losing that Sixers have already been at for some time. 3 more years of it would be pretty interesting.

I'm from the lost black tribe of Israel, the Yos

http://coolehmag.com/frontEnd/

IMO there is no excuse for the Eagles to miss the playoffs this year. I know Dallas has hype behind them and it might be real for once, but at least a wild card. But just staying at that level isn't good enough either. IMO the Birds better be challenging for the Super Bowl next year or this was just a bunch of egotistical tinkering and asset shuffling. It's a Parcells level of control for a recent comer and honestly in some ways his domineering is more pervasive than the Tuna's was, plus he was starting from a better spot than Parcells was in Dallas.



>Well, given the state of the East, not making the playoffs for
>the next three years would seem to require the same sort of
>intentional losing that Sixers have already been at for some
>time. 3 more years of it would be pretty interesting.

I don't know, when was the last time Orlando was in? The Bobcats made it once but just barely, I almost wouldn't even count it. The Knicks are well on their way to a nice string of non-intentional misses, and Detroit already has one. For sure Philly will miss this year, that would be four straight years but it's not unheard of. I think someone pressed about this in another post, I think they should make it after this season, so 2017 playoffs, but I wouldn't be furious if it took until 2018 depending on the circumstances. The big thing is that soon guys will be coming for for free agency and you can't expect even RFAs to trust the process. Frankly I think frustration with the team's lack of competitiveness played a noticeable to large role in the departure of both MCW and McDaniels. No harm, no foul there as they got great return for MCW (see IMO's post above for rationale there) and a do-over on McDaniels (who I was sad to see go but whatever). But if they start talking extension with Noel, they better be moving a little quicker toward competing or it could jeopardize the whole experiment.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

Seattle and they were going about 8-8 every year in the process. Kelly just needs to get lucky with the QB the same way Carrol did.

"hey, make this right mayne
stop at the light mayne,
my yester night thang got me hung off the night train "

Seattle had a much less talented team. And actually I don't think there was more turnover, at least not of guys relatively in their primes.

Letting Hasselbeck and Tatupu go is not the same as Desean Jackson and Lesean McCoy.


Anyway, the point I was making was not whether it's the right approach or not, but how interesting it is that Philly has fully bought in. Guess you haven't won anything in a millenia so what's to lose?

I'm from the lost black tribe of Israel, the Yos

http://coolehmag.com/frontEnd/

Spinning and flipping picks year in and year out, while being garbage isn't a plan. That's stalling.

At least when Morey did it (and I killed him for it), he had a the dignity to field a decent professional basketball team.

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

Sucking, picking high but complicating their situation by signing overpriced, mid-level free agents that have limited impact if any on win totals?

It is a lot like Houston only more extreme. Bide time until the moment is right, then get aggressive. The difference is that Houston had a market that would tolerate mediocrity so they put all these weird, never-contending teams out there to sell tickets. As a result, their aggressiveness came in the FA and one-year-left trade market rather than the draft. Philly fans will turn out at about the same rate for a 20-win team as they will a 40-win team so there is no financial incentive to not just suck, get high picks and accumulate assets for now. The "no plan" contingent is among the dumbest on the boards. Don't align yourself with them just because of frustration. Your boy has put in *one* year. ONE. Have a modicum of patience here.

But you WILL see Philly get aggressive soon, probably in the summer of 2016. We need to re-sign Noel, and we now have the option to switch picks with the Kings, who are about to make the 2000s Blazers look like a beacon of emotional stability and on-court consistency. If they can suck for us, then there will be zero reason to keep up this cap-floor crap, plus we'll need to show Nerlens that things are progressing in a more tangible way.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

If NBA rosters were Spades hands.

They about 9 Books, you have 3 and a possible.

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

What it did to gut our team and help theirs (Bynum trade). Outside of that, I wouldn't swap positions with them and so far your assertion is not supported by reality. Neither team has made the playoffs in the past three seasons and their win totals are very similar. Orlando also doesn't have one individual player the caliber of Noel or Okafor in terms of potential to be a franchise player, with all due respect to Oladipo. Furthermore, they are about to sign some bloated contracts that will preclude them from signing legit vets if/when the team actually shows something. You're sitting here cysing some 25-win team that hasn't made the playoffs in three years and won't again this year. They are in the same spot as Philly from a results standpoint, but with fewer assets in hand and less financial flexibility. They just have more depth (for now). Whooptydamndoo.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

In real life, they have players other teams want.

You have TWO.

Lol...

Just stop.

They may be in the same position wins wise. But they have a better roster. Now if Skiles can get that young roster to gel. Then, the wins will come.

But they're not a half a step ahead of you. Not in an inch. They're a mile ahead.

You can actually see a team, instead of talking 3 years down the road.

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

They have five players of any sort of note (Harris, Gordon, Payton, Oladipo, Vuc), two of which they got from us, incidentally. None of those guys are franchise players. You're sitting here talking about the possibility of a hard-ass coach who will wear out his welcome pushing them to a meaningless playoff berth in the next year or two. That sounds familiar, like maybe where the Sixers were under Doug Collins. And the Magic won't luck their way into the second round like we did lol.

Meanwhile Philly has Noel and Okafor, plus Saric in waiting and as many four first and three lotto picks this year. They could easily have two picks inside the top 5. Great for Orlando if Skiles pushes them hard and drops their draft position. We'll take a couple potential superstars at their expense, why not? Labissiere would look fine in blue and red . I'm not even talking Embiid, who ain't dead yet and could mean that inside of a year the Sixers would be loaded with promising, much more than Orlando has. And no 25-win team is "miles" ahead of anyone in the NBA, that's fucking laughable, especially with no top-five-potential talent to speak of.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

No books though.

You got 3 actual NBA players (Noel, Okafor, Wroten) and a possible (Stauskas).

Orlando also has Mario. You forgot about him.

Keep hoping to land the next great Lebron type franchise player, while other G.M. construct actual teams.

I'll give more creedence to the young players on the Magic improving and becoming a better team. Which will lead to more wins. That's more of an actual plan than hoping lottery balls bounce your way next spring.

Go ahead and get Skal too. So you can have 5 bigs that marginalize the value of each other.

Cuz that's the PROCESS.

Lmao.

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

Orlando's six guys are "books" as in FIRM things where as Philly's four (plus a fuck ton in waiting) are "possibles?" Interesting double standard. Orlando has zero players who have made the All-Star team, zero players who have been to the playoffs and most of their guys haven't even produced all that much in a relative way yet. So basically they have six pieces, Philly has four, while Philly has two guys with more potential than any of theirs plus a stockpile of futures. Why would I want to be in the Magic's position again?


This argument is getting to the point where I think it's time to match money and mouth. Think up some terms and we can get it cracking. Obviously this will be a long-term but we are both lifers in this shithole so that's fine.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

Regardless of team.

The Sixers have 3 and maybe another one.

Therefore the Magic are in a better position right now than the Sixers. You keep wanting to argue on what might and could happen, when after 3 years of tanking you still have 3 and maybe 1 more player.

So why would anybody believe there's a process?

Yeah, man. I don't bet on basketball teams scenarios. **shrugs**

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

A lot of 8th men, maybe one or two borderline start on good team guys, none of whom are in the same league as Nerlens nor stratosphere as Jah. Whoopdeedamndo

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God

or only 1 or 2 start on good teams.

Vucevic is a good player who would start on most teams. So are Oladipo and Harris. Mario and Elfrid show promise. And Gordon is a good energy guy and can become a great defensive presence.

And surprise surprise....none of those guys went to Kentucky. Weird.

But they're all young players and with a lot of promise.

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

Because Nerlens and Okafor both are. And more talents like them are on the way.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

Hes a top 5 rebounder scoring 19 ppg

Isnt that what you *hope* Noel is?

WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE

both impress me. With the thinness of the C position maybe Vuc could be an all-star, and Oladipo is a very good two-way player in the making.

It still pisses me off we dumped Vuc like he was nothing in that Bynum deal. We really bore a huge burden there, not only giving the second best player right then (Iggy) but also two recent first rounders plus a future first. Fuck.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

But i like Orlando's core

I think they are a playoff team sooner than later

WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE

yes i could see them becoming a regular season phenomenon like the crappier early years of the pistons or some of the recent hawks teams but no way in hell do i see them developing into a contender. and they're still a ways away; they were pretty sorry last season.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

Even Harris, who seems like the elder statesman, is only 22

WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE

He's already super disruptive as a defender

He's the guy they need to be building around imo

WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

The guy with the most upside is Okafor.

After that it could be Noel, but it could also be Vucevic, Mario, Gordon, Tobias, or Oladipo before you get to Noel.

And Noel is my guy.

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

Damn dude I mean Vuc is one thing, Oladipo is one more but now you're putting Harris, a relatively unknown Euro and Gordon over your boy?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JghkG4WydNk

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

Been on record saying that. A lot of the things he does have already translated into the NBA and I expect to get better.

But no I cannot definitely say he will end up better than other young players that I believe are both skilled and athletic and have also showed potential.

Nor can I say it will materialize into All Star games. What he does isn't a sexy game. It is just super effective.

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

So far he is all I expected, obviously the injury made me nervous but looks 100% now. I think you're compensating a little between bashing Philly and trying to distance yourself from UK homerism. Be you, man.

Good bullshitting with you today.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

is your 2nd best player after all these years of being bad..I dunno....


man Orlando has way more young talented core than the Sixers...

that's how you're supposed to build if you don't make big free agent splashes....draft and aquire a bunch of young ballers...and build...you can do that shit quickly..it shouldn't take this long..

I know the Lakers ain't where we want to be, but in 2 years we've compiled 7 guys who will likely be on the roster who will be 1st or 2nd year guys..all with upside and potential..and are likely to play lots of minutes.

Orlando has a bunch of young guys who are getting attention...

they building...

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God

to carrying a team...

ok..if noel is ben Wallace...where is Chaunce, Rip, Tayshaun, and Sheed...

lolol...

when you got lottery picks ...multiple ones at that...if the best you come out of that with is the next Ben Wallace, you have failed miserably..

you don't DRAFT a Ben Wallace...You make a develop a Ben Wallace...

Where is Sheed=Okafor, Embiid if he recovers

Where is Rip=Saric, Stauskas

Where is Chauncey=this year's draft

The idea that you put a complete team together is exactly what we are shooting for and we will be doing it with high picks that we develop from the start.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

By the time the 04 regular season ended, Chauncey was their best player imo

Not because Ben slipped (he didnt) but because Chauncey took to LBs coaching like he was born to play for him

WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE

Yes, Brown developed Billups into what they were missing (the guy who could create his own shot late in games mostly) and yes Billups flourished. Still, over the course of 48 minutes, Wallace was their engine. Plus let's not just ignore their successful years under Carlisle, when Wallace was unquestionably the man.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

to a title and Game 7 of another Finals plus a SLEW of conference finals. If Noel is that plus more offense, he is a fucking STUD. Funny that you'd disrespect Wallace after 2004.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

His prime was truncated but holy shit could he cover ground and eat glass.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

His reflexes are like that I see from some of the best wing defenders.

Like the people who love WCS cuz he runs and it looks pretty. Noel is better than that. Maybe not as straight line fast, but better.

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

anything negative about Cauley-Stein, I think he will be a valuable player but not the kind of dominant defender Noel will be (or Wallace was).

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE

will get Rick Pitino a handjob in an Olive Garden mens room.

The Sixers also just made moves to get pros though we will see who sticks and who doesn't. Their rotation won't be as short or nearly as full of holes as last year. I would be not the least bit surprised if both teams finished with about the same record and, again, the Sixers have both more star power and more draft picks. I can't believe you are downplaying the fact that we may have two more top 5 picks this year. And if Mario "has potential" sight unseen, well then so does Dario. This is just a puzzling discussion and so far your only salvation is "See and none of these guys went to Kentucky." I know you cyse other players, just not blindly. Or so I thought

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

It's weird that you are arguing this.

You're talking "star power" like that shit matters.

You're debating simple shit like Mario vs Dario. One guy on a NBA roster this season. The other isn't.

So I don't care.

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

saric will be here eventually. tons of guys were worse than mirotic two years ago that were "on NBA roster."

orlando has a core and a roster? that will be sub-.500 and soon over the cap? cool. that's what we want to avoid being.

obviously being good in 2-3 years is not something to pop off about like it will happen tomorrow, but honestly orlando is probably a year ahead of that in terms of ETA and in terms of ceiling they are not especially high.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God

Enjoy your process.

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God

But as of right now there is absolutely no reason for me to tell you I blindly believe Hinkie knows what he's doing.

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

instead of your boy and sort of hinting that he should be signing the channing fryes of the world. sound about right? it's totally wrong.

and how has he not shown he knows what he is doing? he got the best rookie at the bottom end of the lottery. noel has panned out. wroten was a classic analytics style pickup. he's managed to get not only draft picks but *high* draft picks just for taking contracts and shuffling them around. you think he could have done that signing meaningless vets? i mean, you're talking about *the magic* having some grand plan, but we don't? you're off the bandwagon, dude, when noel is a DPOY for a playoff team in philly, no soup for you. the real fam is gonna be eatin. bags took your place at the table.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

What I am saying (I think I said it clearly) Randle is, was, and will always be better than Embiid.

Don't know why that upsets you?

How was Wroten a classic analytics pick? His 25% 3pt %? Lmao.

Goddamn you dudes be reaching. Wroten was a throw in, who happens to be good.

Yeah, never a Sixers fan. Always a Noel fan and sole owner of all Noel stock. **shrugs**

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

Not in the sense that his advanced stats are good but that he was a guy who could have had an expanded role despite playing in a diminished one. That is the broader goal rather than conforming to any particular stat.

I'm sure you're glad Randle landed on an equally rotten team that has delusions of grandeur. Like I said, when Noel's eating, don't try to buddy up.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

now you backtracking and scrambling.

Oh, the Lakers are in the same boat as the Sixers. Don't think you're better off than they are.

Like I said before. As the sole holder of all Noel stock, you're not making a lick of sense talking about buddying up.

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

And the ones that don't aren't.

Thanks

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

Morey and any other GM who subscribes has said the end goal of their system is to identify players who are playing smaller roles elsewhere whose responsibility could expand, thus creating a good value. Is that not what happened with Wroten? I know goddamn well he is not James Harden, obviously that is not what I meant. I can see needing one post to clarify, but not three or four.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

The goal of analytics is to identify talent who might
or might not be good in some circumstances, realistic or
not, most of the time, depending on the weather, or the
planet you're playing on.


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

seems to be working great for the knicks to have known dinosaur feel jackson pushing a 1940s offense and eyeball test talent evaluations.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

"hey, make this right mayne
stop at the light mayne,
my yester night thang got me hung off the night train "

SVG has a very obvious plan with a high probability of success:

Step 1: Build around Drummond
Step 2: Profit

WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE

"hey, make this right mayne
stop at the light mayne,
my yester night thang got me hung off the night train "

WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE