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Subject: "Let's be real for min, how would OKC worked if they kept Harden?" Previous topic | Next topic
TheRealBillyOcean
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Tue Apr-14-15 11:39 AM

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"Let's be real for min, how would OKC worked if they kept Harden?"


          

Durant
Westbrook
Harden

That's redundancy like a mutha. They all do he same damn thing.

Yes, it would've been scary. But how would it have worked logistically.

2 or all 3 players games would be marginalized significantly. And they would never reach their individual potential.

It's diff in other scenarios we've seen in the past where players complimented one another. But OKC would probably be one big clusterfuck.

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
Well, two of them can't stay healthy
Apr 14th 2015
1
Defense would be an issue
Apr 14th 2015
2
The only one of the 3 who is below average defender is Harden.
Apr 14th 2015
5
      Ibaka is the lone rim defender OKC has.
Apr 14th 2015
8
           i'd assume they'd fill the holes they'd have like cle has in 1 year
Apr 14th 2015
9
                Good defensive big men are expensive, especially now
Apr 14th 2015
14
                     dallas just got a defensive big man this season for bs
Apr 14th 2015
16
                          RE: dallas just got a defensive big man this season for bs
Apr 14th 2015
21
                               i'm just saying big man became available...Whatever reasons Chandler
Apr 14th 2015
23
                                    My main issue
Apr 14th 2015
25
                                         I agree...but you can't just assume the big 3 with what they have now
Apr 14th 2015
27
1000x better than Westbrook, Durant, Kevin Martin
Apr 14th 2015
3
same way it worked when they went to the finals
Apr 14th 2015
4
They didn't have Green in the finals. They had traded him for Perk.
Apr 14th 2015
6
yes, I know. I was simply pointing out what the roster could have been.
Apr 14th 2015
7
Yeah, but each player is nowhere as good as they are now
Apr 14th 2015
10
and they were young. they've all gotten better
Apr 14th 2015
11
so players get better with experience? tell me more
Apr 14th 2015
12
      You think James wants to make life better he's arguably better than both...
Apr 14th 2015
13
      no, he isn't
Apr 14th 2015
18
           The fuck he ain't
Apr 14th 2015
59
      i was agreeing with you. lol
Apr 14th 2015
17
           my bad, I thought you were implying that they got better by separating
Apr 14th 2015
20
Jeff Green is not a winning player, they were right to dump him
Apr 14th 2015
31
It wouldn't work. Can't have 3 guys who all want to dominate the ball
Apr 14th 2015
15
KD and Russ's health are the issue, not Harden...
Apr 14th 2015
19
wouldn't having a healthy Harden help solve that issue too?
Apr 14th 2015
34
As far as scoring in the paint, yeah, but OKC needed a big that...
Apr 14th 2015
46
      They'd have been able to get a dude like Kanter even if they kept him.
Apr 14th 2015
55
           Get Kanter for a year on his rookie deal, but after that? Crickets
Apr 14th 2015
57
           I don't care about Enes Kanter.
Apr 14th 2015
64
           RE: They'd have been able to get a dude like Kanter even if they kept hi...
Apr 14th 2015
60
                cool, I'd rather have James Harden then Steven Adams & Enes Kanter
Apr 14th 2015
65
hot avy, fam
Apr 14th 2015
43
      Thank you, my good man.
Apr 14th 2015
47
So...OKC itself could be better, even if the players would have had an i...
Apr 14th 2015
22
who did they even get back for Harden? I legit don't remember
Apr 14th 2015
24
I think they just didn't re-sign him bc of money, and signed Kevin Marti...
Apr 14th 2015
51
Id say it works even for this year bcuz they arent a bubble team w/Harde...
Apr 14th 2015
33
      They knew Harden's talent but they weren't giving him the max
Apr 14th 2015
63
           they could have gotten him for less than max at that point
Apr 14th 2015
69
                It obviously wasn't below the luxury tax line
Apr 15th 2015
73
basketball-wise they would've been fine
Apr 14th 2015
26
Was thinking the same thing.
Apr 14th 2015
29
he still needs to be fired.......if they'd have done it sooner with Hard...
Apr 14th 2015
35
yeah it would have been a challenge, i kinda think harden wanted out
Apr 14th 2015
38
      RE: yeah it would have been a challenge, i kinda think harden wanted out
Apr 14th 2015
45
           I see what you're saying but I dunno
Apr 15th 2015
75
RE: Let's be real for min, how would OKC worked if they kept Harden?
Apr 14th 2015
28
I'm saying...i feel like we have this discussion every time
Apr 14th 2015
30
RE: I'm saying...i feel like we have this discussion every time
Apr 14th 2015
32
Nah
Apr 14th 2015
36
Look I didnt mind that they traded him HOWEVER ...
Apr 14th 2015
37
the return they got was lousy especially since they coulda rode out with
Apr 14th 2015
39
      that's another reason i suspect he wanted out, actually
Apr 14th 2015
41
           because Presti thought that he'd be able to get more not less when they
Apr 14th 2015
56
                i mean he made the right *kind* of deal but he got the wrong players
Apr 15th 2015
76
instead of "my turn, your turn" it'd be "my turn, your turn, his turn"
Apr 14th 2015
40
Nah, Harden'd Be Like, My Turn, My Turn, My Turn
Apr 14th 2015
42
lol...when has that worked worked with 3 perimeter players?
Apr 14th 2015
54
      they got to the finals with it. it was worth another few shots.
Apr 14th 2015
61
           My thing is 2 of them won't reach their potential or they realize...
Apr 14th 2015
66
                of course but that's life and you cross that bridge when you get to it
Apr 14th 2015
67
It was a bad trade for OKC...
Apr 14th 2015
44
It doesn't matter, because they'd be better than they are now
Apr 14th 2015
48
lol right
Apr 14th 2015
49
they'd be better but no guarantee of greater success
Apr 14th 2015
50
      Definitely a coaching change
Apr 14th 2015
53
Too bad their primary motivation was avoiding the luxury tax
Apr 14th 2015
52
I didn't say that, and I don't care about the motivation.
Apr 14th 2015
58
      It would work the same way it did w/ Tim/Tony/Manu
Apr 14th 2015
62
           A few things
Apr 14th 2015
68
           Basically
Apr 14th 2015
70
           Aren't we assuming their roles remained relatively the same?
Apr 15th 2015
72
           to reiterate:
Apr 14th 2015
71
                Stay M-A-D my friend, stay M-A-D
Apr 15th 2015
74
                     stay on your meds my friend, stay on your meds
Apr 15th 2015
77
                          Dirk is DONE so deal w/ it..Carlisle already recited his eulogy
Apr 15th 2015
78
                               Dirk back in dem 'offs & u mad as fuck AGAIN! GOOD!
Apr 17th 2015
80
                                    I"m HAPPY as hell bruh, I got agendas all over that series
Apr 17th 2015
82
                                         that series is a lose/lose proposition for you
Apr 19th 2015
87
they have the wrong coach and no system
Apr 15th 2015
79
pretty much. the west was theirs for as long as they wanted it.
Apr 17th 2015
81
      that's a bold-ass statement. gotta respect the spurs more than that.
Apr 17th 2015
84
           This is OKS fam, rings are foregone conclusions lol
Apr 17th 2015
85
           they woulda been the favorite to come out the west every year
Apr 17th 2015
86
They'd be in the playoffs this year.
Apr 17th 2015
83

John Forte
Member since Feb 22nd 2013
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Tue Apr-14-15 11:43 AM

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1. "Well, two of them can't stay healthy"
In response to Reply # 0


          

  

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Numba_33
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Tue Apr-14-15 11:44 AM

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2. "Defense would be an issue"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

That's assuming Ibaka would have been shipped elsewhere.

  

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Cenario
Member since Aug 24th 2005
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Tue Apr-14-15 11:49 AM

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5. "The only one of the 3 who is below average defender is Harden."
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

  

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Numba_33
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Tue Apr-14-15 11:52 AM

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8. "Ibaka is the lone rim defender OKC has."
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

  

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Cenario
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Tue Apr-14-15 11:53 AM

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9. "i'd assume they'd fill the holes they'd have like cle has in 1 year"
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

  

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Numba_33
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Tue Apr-14-15 12:01 PM

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14. "Good defensive big men are expensive, especially now"
In response to Reply # 9
Tue Apr-14-15 12:29 PM by Numba_33

  

          

that good defensive big men are rare. Having those three big three contracts of Durant, Westbrook, and Harden makes it very very hard for OKC to shoulder another big contract. In addition, I don't know how many assets OKC would have to move around to get one off the market outside of those three.

  

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Cenario
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Tue Apr-14-15 12:31 PM

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16. "dallas just got a defensive big man this season for bs"
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

so did Cle. Miami plugged in pieces, got outrebounded about every game and still won 2 chips in 4 tries.

Durant, Harden, Westbrook rival Bron, Wade, Bosh pretty nicely.

I think they would have been fine.

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

  

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Numba_33
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21. "RE: dallas just got a defensive big man this season for bs"
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

>so did Cle. Miami plugged in pieces, got outrebounded about
>every game and still won 2 chips in 4 tries.

It appears Phil was desperate to move Felton from the Knicks and undervalued Chandler, similar to how Phil undervalued JR Smith when he moved him to Cleveland. Mozgov is a good fit for Cleveland, but he isn't nearly the defensive presence Ibaka is. Pretty tough to replace the good rebounding, outside shot making, and top level rim protection that Ibaka currently gives OKC.

>Durant, Harden, Westbrook rival Bron, Wade, Bosh pretty
>nicely.

In terms of scoring this may be accurate, but defensively Miami when they had the big 3 were much better than OKC would have been sans Ibaka because Spolestra used good defensive schemes that involved great team defense. It remains to be seen if Brooks has that mindset.

  

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Cenario
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Tue Apr-14-15 12:51 PM

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23. "i'm just saying big man became available...Whatever reasons Chandler"
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

was undervalued and available that same opportunity would have been there for OKC.

Pretty tough to replace the good rebounding, outside shot
>making, and top level rim protection that Ibaka currently
>gives OKC.

Have you seen Ibaka this season though. He hasn't even been that good. Especially when durant was in and out, he never stepped up.


>
>In terms of scoring this may be accurate, but defensively
>Miami when they had the big 3 were much better than OKC would
>have been sans Ibaka because Spolestra used good defensive
>schemes that involved great team defense. It remains to be
>seen if Brooks has that mindset.

Well this is a different discussion. I never said Brooks was the answer...with or without harden.

Those 3 are the type of players that you keep together and try to work it out the details later. I'm convinced that Presti didn't expect harden to be the superstar he became. Most folks didn't. You can find Ibaka's. Harden is either the 1st or 2nd best SG in the league depending on how you feel about his defense.

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

  

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Numba_33
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25. "My main issue"
In response to Reply # 23


  

          

even assuming Durant, Harden, and Westbrook are healthy is that they'd be very weak against the top tier West teams that have average/above average/top tier big men on their roster, especially in the playoffs when half-court defense is important. I don't see them beating Golden State or San Antonio in a seven game series and I'd see them struggling against Memphis in the same scenario. That trio would feast during the regular season, but without solid defense, they would struggle.

  

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Cenario
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27. "I agree...but you can't just assume the big 3 with what they have now"
In response to Reply # 25


  

          

Give them some time to put together a team around those 3 strengths like every other top team does.

GS core been together how long
MEm?
San An?

Look how much Cleveland roster has changed since Nov.

I think its very short sighted to look at their roster right now (even though the kanter addition is looking like a gem) as opposed to thinking about the type of team they could have built around their big 3 like every other nba team has had the opportunity to do.

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

  

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Cenario
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3. "1000x better than Westbrook, Durant, Kevin Martin"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Westbrook, Durant, Jeremy Lamb
Westbrook, Durant, Reggie Jackson
Westbrook, Durant, Dion Waiters

etc.

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

  

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bentagain
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Tue Apr-14-15 11:48 AM

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4. "same way it worked when they went to the finals"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

folks forget about Jeff Green too

Russy
Beard
Green
KD
Iblocka

who's f'n with that?

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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Ryan M
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Tue Apr-14-15 11:49 AM

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6. "They didn't have Green in the finals. They had traded him for Perk."
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

  

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bentagain
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7. "yes, I know. I was simply pointing out what the roster could have been."
In response to Reply # 6
Tue Apr-14-15 11:53 AM by bentagain

  

          

Presti WAS getting alot of praise

and just a few short years later

we're talking about what could have been.

i.e., that could have been their roster

---------------------------------------------------------------

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you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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TheRealBillyOcean
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10. "Yeah, but each player is nowhere as good as they are now"
In response to Reply # 4


          

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

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Cenario
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Tue Apr-14-15 11:55 AM

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11. "and they were young. they've all gotten better"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

  

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bentagain
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Tue Apr-14-15 11:57 AM

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12. "so players get better with experience? tell me more"
In response to Reply # 11


  

          

you think having Beard and Jeff Green on that roster

doesn't make life easier for Russ and KD

c'mon

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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TheRealBillyOcean
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Tue Apr-14-15 11:59 AM

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13. "You think James wants to make life better he's arguably better than both..."
In response to Reply # 12
Tue Apr-14-15 11:59 AM by TheRealBillyOcean

          

.

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

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John Forte
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Tue Apr-14-15 12:33 PM

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18. "no, he isn't"
In response to Reply # 13


          

  

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TheRealBillyOcean
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59. "The fuck he ain't "
In response to Reply # 18


          

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

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Cenario
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Tue Apr-14-15 12:32 PM

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17. "i was agreeing with you. lol"
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

I'm saying the 3 of them would be better as a group than they were when they made the finals.

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

  

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bentagain
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Tue Apr-14-15 12:40 PM

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20. "my bad, I thought you were implying that they got better by separating"
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

also, with the recent injuries to that team

having Harden would have at least kept them in the middle of the playoff pack

or eleviated some of the heavy lifting and avoided the injuries all together

maybe

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Bombastic
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31. "Jeff Green is not a winning player, they were right to dump him"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

where they fucked up was not amnsetying the guy they got for him (Perkins) a few years later when it was obvious he couldn't play and they needed to retain Harden.

https://soundcloud.com/matt-koelling-666011203

www.somethinginthewudder.com

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https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-koelling-438a80

  

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Vex_id
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15. "It wouldn't work. Can't have 3 guys who all want to dominate the ball"
In response to Reply # 0


          

with a shoot-first mentality. they all *can* distribute, but they don't seem to get any joy out of it - it's more out of necessity than a real willingness to share the ball and set others up.

-->

  

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BlassFemur
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Tue Apr-14-15 12:38 PM

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19. "KD and Russ's health are the issue, not Harden..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

if KD can come back next season, I actually think they'll be the best they've been in a while now that they have a guy in the paint that can get shit done. I'd much rather have Kanter alongside KD and Russ than Harden.

https://banafrit.com/
http://middlebrainmedia.com/

  

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Bombastic
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34. "wouldn't having a healthy Harden help solve that issue too?"
In response to Reply # 19


  

          

People need to stop defending this trade.

I was against it when it happened but the least those weren't can do is admit now it didn't work.

https://soundcloud.com/matt-koelling-666011203

www.somethinginthewudder.com

https://twitter.com/nostrabombus

https://www.facebook.com/matt.koelling.96

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https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-koelling-438a80

  

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BlassFemur
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Tue Apr-14-15 03:07 PM

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46. "As far as scoring in the paint, yeah, but OKC needed a big that..."
In response to Reply # 34
Tue Apr-14-15 03:08 PM by BlassFemur

  

          

plays like a big (an all-around inside presence). Kanter does a whole lot of shit in the paint and the defense has to pay attention to him a hell of a lot more than they had to pay attention to Perk. Plus they have to pay attention to Adams more too, when OKC plays Kanter and Adams at the same time. Two bigs...who plays like bigs in the paint to go along with two dynamic scorers on the perimeter. Exactly what they needed cause Ibaka is overrated and plays like a small forward now.

Now they just need to get healthy and they'll be alright.

https://banafrit.com/
http://middlebrainmedia.com/

  

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Bombastic
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55. "They'd have been able to get a dude like Kanter even if they kept him."
In response to Reply # 46


  

          

Kanter & Adams ain't some murderous front-line defenses have to worry about.

https://soundcloud.com/matt-koelling-666011203

www.somethinginthewudder.com

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https://www.facebook.com/matt.koelling.96

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TheRealBillyOcean
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Tue Apr-14-15 06:10 PM

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57. "Get Kanter for a year on his rookie deal, but after that? Crickets"
In response to Reply # 55


          

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

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Bombastic
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Tue Apr-14-15 07:30 PM

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64. "I don't care about Enes Kanter. "
In response to Reply # 57


  

          

https://soundcloud.com/matt-koelling-666011203

www.somethinginthewudder.com

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BlassFemur
Member since Mar 26th 2008
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Tue Apr-14-15 06:25 PM

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60. "RE: They'd have been able to get a dude like Kanter even if they kept hi..."
In response to Reply # 55


  

          

>Kanter & Adams ain't some murderous front-line defenses have
>to worry about.

Man, those two dudes are starting to play well together and they are both active in the paint. I didn't say they were 'murderous', I said defenses have to pay more attention to Adams when playing alongside Kanter, cause both crash the boards and Adams only has to worry about garbage work when Kanter is there.

Maybe they could get a guy like that w/ Harden. Maybe they couldn't/ wouldn't feel the need to. I'm comparing what they have now to what they had before (which didn't get them a chip, btw).

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Bombastic
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65. "cool, I'd rather have James Harden then Steven Adams & Enes Kanter"
In response to Reply # 60


  

          

>>Kanter & Adams ain't some murderous front-line defenses
>have
>>to worry about.
>
>Man, those two dudes are starting to play well together and
>they are both active in the paint. I didn't say they were
>'murderous', I said defenses have to pay more attention to
>Adams when playing alongside Kanter, cause both crash the
>boards and Adams only has to worry about garbage work when
>Kanter is there.
>
>Maybe they could get a guy like that w/ Harden. Maybe they
>couldn't/ wouldn't feel the need to. I'm comparing what they
>have now to what they had before (which didn't get them a
>chip, btw).
>

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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Tue Apr-14-15 02:39 PM

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43. "hot avy, fam"
In response to Reply # 19


  

          

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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BlassFemur
Member since Mar 26th 2008
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Tue Apr-14-15 03:08 PM

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47. "Thank you, my good man."
In response to Reply # 43


  

          

https://banafrit.com/
http://middlebrainmedia.com/

  

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-DJ R-Tistic-
Member since Nov 06th 2008
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Tue Apr-14-15 12:48 PM

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22. "So...OKC itself could be better, even if the players would have had an i..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

reaching their individual potential.

I mean...this argument fails for this season of course BC KD is hurt and even Russ was hurt half the season.

The issue to me is that they lost Harden for nothing...Ibaka hasn't really improved since they chose to keep him, and keeping him didn't seem like a mad move at the time. But I feel they could have possibly kept Harden and then traded him for a big, and been better off.

------------------------------

50+ FREE Mixes on www.DJR-Tistic.com!

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Cenario
Member since Aug 24th 2005
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Tue Apr-14-15 12:52 PM

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24. "who did they even get back for Harden? I legit don't remember"
In response to Reply # 22


  

          

i know kev martin was the shooting guard that replaced him but you just don't give away superstars unless your hand is forced. OKC didn't know they had a superstar on their hands.

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

  

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-DJ R-Tistic-
Member since Nov 06th 2008
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Tue Apr-14-15 04:54 PM

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51. "I think they just didn't re-sign him bc of money, and signed Kevin Marti..."
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

for cheaper or something.

------------------------------

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Bombastic
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33. "Id say it works even for this year bcuz they arent a bubble team w/Harde..."
In response to Reply # 22


  

          

>reaching their individual potential.
>
>I mean...this argument fails for this season of course BC KD
>is hurt and even Russ was hurt half the season.
>
>The issue to me is that they lost Harden for nothing...Ibaka
>hasn't really improved since they chose to keep him, and
>keeping him didn't seem like a mad move at the time. But I
>feel they could have possibly kept Harden and then traded him
>for a big, and been better off.

They didn't need to do anything with either of them, Harden was under contract and they could have taken at least one more crack at it with him on his rookie deal before having to determine if he was a max player that following summer.

They blew it in both the short-term and long-term on that deal.

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FILF
Member since Jun 01st 2007
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Tue Apr-14-15 07:20 PM

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63. "They knew Harden's talent but they weren't giving him the max"
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

>They didn't need to do anything with either of them, Harden
>was under contract and they could have taken at least one more
>crack at it with him on his rookie deal before having to
>determine if he was a max player that following summer.

They reached an impasse where Harden's agent demanded the max & OKC was hell bent on not going over the luxury tax even after Harden outplayed Russy against the Mavs/Spurs in the 2012 postseason. He might actually have been the best player against the Mavs. Thus, even if they though he was worth the max on the free market they weren't going to give it to him.

The reason they pulled the trigger is most likely b/c Harden wanted out feeling unappreciated knowing they weren't going to give him the max. Presti tried doing what you said w/ Reggie Jackson & we all know how that ended after he got butt hurt he didn't get the max.

WHAT'S GOOD *****? What's REALLY good?!?!????!!! Ha HA!
http://40.media.tumblr.com/d8e2daf9f3f37244cd05436bcdf05973/tumblr_mt4qibKq4c1rgam01o1_1280.png

  

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Bombastic
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69. "they could have gotten him for less than max at that point"
In response to Reply # 63
Tue Apr-14-15 07:45 PM by Bombastic

  

          

Harden even admitted that.

They could have waited a year.

They could have amnestyied Perk and the luxury-tax be damned because they had a championship nucleus.

They could have signed Harden rather than Ibaka since he was better then and now.

The trade is indefensible.

I won't even get into the difference between him and Reggie Jackson.

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FILF
Member since Jun 01st 2007
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Wed Apr-15-15 02:03 AM

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73. "It obviously wasn't below the luxury tax line"
In response to Reply # 69


  

          

>Harden even admitted that.
>
>They could have waited a year.

They could have but they wanted to move on & not deal w/ his pending free agency.

>They could have amnestied Perk and the luxury-tax be damned
>because they had a championship nucleus.

They valued Perk as a "vet" & as a small market team they weren't going to pay him to walk. It was stupid but that was their stance. They wouldn't amnesty Perk to sign other free agents after K-Mart left but rather had Fisher/Butler closing out games. They eventually dumped him on Utah to acquire Kanter by simply throwing in a high teens 1st rd pick.

>They could have signed Harden rather than Ibaka since he was
>better then and now.

We all know how great they are defensively without Ibaka.

>The trade is indefensible.

Lamb was a bust & K-Mart was forced to play wingman after Russy got injured. Who knows what becomes of Adams the same way nobody figured Harden would be a top MVP candidate.

>I won't even get into the difference between him and Reggie
>Jackson.

fuck you, pay me!

WHAT'S GOOD *****? What's REALLY good?!?!????!!! Ha HA!
http://40.media.tumblr.com/d8e2daf9f3f37244cd05436bcdf05973/tumblr_mt4qibKq4c1rgam01o1_1280.png

  

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Kungset
Member since Mar 29th 2004
6426 posts
Tue Apr-14-15 01:07 PM

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26. "basketball-wise they would've been fine"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

but Scott Brooks was not keeping that team unified if they kept all 3. would've needed a Phil or a Doc or someone like that

  

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B.J.S.301
Member since Nov 30th 2005
7074 posts
Tue Apr-14-15 01:38 PM

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29. "Was thinking the same thing."
In response to Reply # 26


          

Scott Brooks would definitely have to be fired.

  

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Bombastic
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35. "he still needs to be fired.......if they'd have done it sooner with Hard..."
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

that would be another good byproduct of keeping him.

I don't necessarily believe it but would be fine either way.

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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Tue Apr-14-15 02:05 PM

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38. "yeah it would have been a challenge, i kinda think harden wanted out"
In response to Reply # 26


  

          

i mean you could look at it either way, OKC wouldnt *quite* max him out, so they were beefing over small money. but the money would have been bigger to them in terms of having flexibility, not having to pay out the ass in lux tax, etc. this is not the lakers we are talking abou here, this is a team in oklahoma city.

or you could look at it like harden had the opportunity to be their james worthy, the guy who played a role a little under his ability to stay with a dominant team. i doubt he cared that much about the extra million a year, i think he wanted to be the main man somewhere.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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Numba_33
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45. "RE: yeah it would have been a challenge, i kinda think harden wanted out"
In response to Reply # 38


  

          

>i mean you could look at it either way, OKC wouldnt *quite*
>max him out, so they were beefing over small money. but the
>money would have been bigger to them in terms of having
>flexibility, not having to pay out the ass in lux tax, etc.
>this is not the lakers we are talking abou here, this is a
>team in oklahoma city.
>
>or you could look at it like harden had the opportunity to be
>their james worthy, the guy who played a role a little under
>his ability to stay with a dominant team. i doubt he cared
>that much about the extra million a year, i think he wanted to
>be the main man somewhere.


From Harden's perspective, you can't really get mad at him for leaving. Outside of the ego of wanting to be the man on another team, coming of the bench like he was in OKC and taking less money would have hurt his value. He's young and should look to get as much money as possible since he's not going to play forever. I wonder if eventually he would become a starter if he staying in OKC; that's assuming he would become a better defender I suppose, which he's shown signs of this year.

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71387 posts
Wed Apr-15-15 02:49 AM

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75. "I see what you're saying but I dunno"
In response to Reply # 45


  

          

Starting is for high school, like I mean did Manu Ginobili make less money and get less shine? Would Detlef not be a max or near max player today? Shit man Cliff Robinson would be getting paid like a fat rat today.

He would have been running their second unit, finishing games, getting starter's minutes and putting up starter's production, just not #1 option production.

Like he would have been an inch from a max deal and then when his deal was up he would have either re-upped or hit the market as a max player anyway. If this were a baseball type salary structure, sure, I would buy this argument 100% because there is no limit to what you can make.

I think it was more about his role. I don't fault him for that, everybody has their goals in their career and his was to be the man on a team. He wanted to be Michael and make sure no one could even come close to confusing him for Tito.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
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Tue Apr-14-15 01:33 PM

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28. "RE: Let's be real for min, how would OKC worked if they kept Harden?"
In response to Reply # 0


          



They would go to the Finals....again.....

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

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Cenario
Member since Aug 24th 2005
59169 posts
Tue Apr-14-15 01:38 PM

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30. "I'm saying...i feel like we have this discussion every time "
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

We are talking bout 3 of the top 10 players in the league.

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

  

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murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
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Tue Apr-14-15 01:48 PM

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32. "RE: I'm saying...i feel like we have this discussion every time "
In response to Reply # 30


          



Yep...very true...

The fallacy that people stumble for is they try to equate what Harden and Russy are doing RIGHT NOW....

But the truth is Harden was a willing passer when he was with OKC...Russy going alpha would have been a bit of an issue because dude is almost as unstoppable as Durant. ALMOST....lol

But this whole what-if is silly....Especially given that Durant has had some serious foot issues. Hell, a team with Harden and Russy would be scary within itself...

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

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RexLongfellow
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Tue Apr-14-15 01:58 PM

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36. "Nah"
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

They'd be a threat, but they'd get beat by San Antonio (maybe even Memphis)...assuming Harden's there and no Ibaka.

The only way that team gets to the Finals is if Scott Brooks wasn't the coach

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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Tue Apr-14-15 02:03 PM

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37. "Look I didnt mind that they traded him HOWEVER ..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

the return they got was lousy, the young guys didn't really pan out and kevin martin was even more disposable than met the eye.

and, as it turned out, that "redundancy" would have saved their ass when russy went down and KD had to take on all comers by himself, or this year when the entire team was a MASH unit.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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Cenario
Member since Aug 24th 2005
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Tue Apr-14-15 02:31 PM

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39. "the return they got was lousy especially since they coulda rode out with"
In response to Reply # 37


  

          

him for at least that year. There was no need to make that decision at that time.

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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41. "that's another reason i suspect he wanted out, actually"
In response to Reply # 39


  

          

seems like they hit an impasse and he wanted to go. otherwise why not let it play out until the deadline, sign-and-trade time, etc?

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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Bombastic
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56. "because Presti thought that he'd be able to get more not less when they"
In response to Reply # 41


  

          

didn't need to be traded, he also thought he got a good haul.

He was wrong.

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www.somethinginthewudder.com

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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Wed Apr-15-15 02:50 AM

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76. "i mean he made the right *kind* of deal but he got the wrong players"
In response to Reply # 56


  

          

they needed a scorer for the second unit and they needed futures, but all the players they got were cheesy despite fitting the right roles.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
85056 posts
Tue Apr-14-15 02:34 PM

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40. "instead of "my turn, your turn" it'd be "my turn, your turn, his turn""
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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RexLongfellow
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Tue Apr-14-15 02:38 PM

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42. "Nah, Harden'd Be Like, My Turn, My Turn, My Turn"
In response to Reply # 40


  

          

Russy'd give him the FOH my nigga face

Harden would try to ice-grill him back

Russy'd yell at him FOH my face bearded ass nigguh!

Harden tries to brush him off

Russy does *SOMETHING*

Harden's at the line shooting FT's because he's fouled by Russy

Durant's at the end of the bench in a slim suit singing Know When to Hold 'Em, Know When to Fold 'Em

Brooks updates his resume on CareerBuilder

Abdul Jabbar, Muggsy Malone you
I don't know what that means but you know what I meant when I told you (c) Sean Price

  

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TheRealBillyOcean
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Tue Apr-14-15 05:41 PM

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54. "lol...when has that worked worked with 3 perimeter players?"
In response to Reply # 40


          

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
85056 posts
Tue Apr-14-15 06:53 PM

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61. "they got to the finals with it. it was worth another few shots."
In response to Reply # 54


  

          

they chose money over winning.

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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TheRealBillyOcean
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66. "My thing is 2 of them won't reach their potential or they realize..."
In response to Reply # 61


          

how good each one them can be and then they're issues.

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
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Tue Apr-14-15 07:37 PM

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67. "of course but that's life and you cross that bridge when you get to it"
In response to Reply # 66


  

          

that team deserved some more chances than a 1 and done finals run.

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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gmltheone
Member since Jun 11th 2003
8564 posts
Tue Apr-14-15 02:43 PM

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44. "It was a bad trade for OKC..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

It happens.

They'll be fine.


----------------------------
Same as it ever was!

  

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icecold21
Member since Jan 18th 2008
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Tue Apr-14-15 04:08 PM

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48. "It doesn't matter, because they'd be better than they are now"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

They certainly haven't been back to the finals since.

I'd say the clusterfuck is what you see now, if there is one.

They absolutely played themselves.

_________________________________________

  

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Cenario
Member since Aug 24th 2005
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Tue Apr-14-15 04:09 PM

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49. "lol right"
In response to Reply # 48


  

          

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71387 posts
Tue Apr-14-15 04:34 PM

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50. "they'd be better but no guarantee of greater success"
In response to Reply # 48


  

          

and if they had stayed healthy recently they could have done just as well as they did with him in 2012.

it's moot anyway because the deal is done and they have moved on, beefing up their frontcourt now. they can win with this roster if it stays healthy. they also may want to consider a coaching change.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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BlassFemur
Member since Mar 26th 2008
10309 posts
Tue Apr-14-15 05:26 PM

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53. "Definitely a coaching change"
In response to Reply # 50


  

          

https://banafrit.com/
http://middlebrainmedia.com/

  

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Cocobrotha2
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Tue Apr-14-15 05:01 PM

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52. "Too bad their primary motivation was avoiding the luxury tax"
In response to Reply # 0


          

You make it sound like it was purely a basketball decision but, really, they wanted to avoid the luxury tax so somebody had to go. That business decision made them a lot of money because they've stayed pretty competitive and they haven't paid a luxury tax to do so.

But I think it's cost them any real hope of a championship. The better basketball decision would've been to keep him, shuffle the bench with min players and pay the tax.

Sure, their skills are redundant but they've sorely needed redundancy (and better coaching) because Russ or KD + supporting cast isn't enough.

<-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><->
<-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><->

  

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TheRealBillyOcean
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58. "I didn't say that, and I don't care about the motivation. "
In response to Reply # 52


          

I'm talking about how it would work on the court.

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

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FILF
Member since Jun 01st 2007
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Tue Apr-14-15 07:03 PM

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62. "It would work the same way it did w/ Tim/Tony/Manu "
In response to Reply # 58


  

          

I watched every second of the 2012 WCF when OKC came back to win the series after being down 2-0 to Team Duncan so I'm pretty sure they could have played together just fine but Harden/Russy would have never been MVP candidates playing alongside a healthy KD. They had good chemistry so I'm not sure ego would have been much of a problem ala Bosh/Wade/Bron.

KD-->Tim (Unselfish franchise cornerstone)
Russy--> Tony (shooting guard masquerading as a PG)
Harden--> Manu (PG masquerading as a shooting guard)

They basically started out game w/ Russy setting the tone then KD would take over in the 2nd & 3rd quarter while Harden would become the primary ball handler in the 4th quarter & Russy would just play off the ball usually spotting up at the corner. Harden was essentially their point guard thus he didn't take that many shots although he touched the ball just as much as Russy/KD. They used to also get a bunch of transition baskets which was a free for all.

The reason why Manu became a 6th man was to maximize the amount of touch all the the Big 3 got through out the game & the same applies w/ why Harden was a 6th man.

WHAT'S GOOD *****? What's REALLY good?!?!????!!! Ha HA!
http://40.media.tumblr.com/d8e2daf9f3f37244cd05436bcdf05973/tumblr_mt4qibKq4c1rgam01o1_1280.png

  

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TheRealBillyOcean
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68. "A few things"
In response to Reply # 62


          

-Tim doesn't function the same way as KD, Harden or Russ
-KD isn't unselfish. He's a scorer.
-Harden wasn't gonna be a 6th man much longer

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

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RexLongfellow
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Tue Apr-14-15 09:30 PM

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70. "Basically"
In response to Reply # 68


  

          

That was a pretty bad comparison

  

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FILF
Member since Jun 01st 2007
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Wed Apr-15-15 01:28 AM

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72. "Aren't we assuming their roles remained relatively the same?"
In response to Reply # 68
Wed Apr-15-15 01:40 AM by FILF

  

          

>-Tim doesn't function the same way as KD, Harden or Russ

KD used to draws double teams in the post and also allowed Russy/Harden to play off him on the PnRs. Harden was able to play 1-on-1 in the 4th quarter b/c the the KD/Harden PnR since teams wouldn't help off KD. It was similar to Dirk/Terry pick-and-pop that the Mavs used as the bread & butter of their offense when they went to the Finals in '06 & also won 67 games the following season.

>-KD isn't unselfish. He's a scorer.

So Jordan was selfish b/c he was a great scorer? We ain't talking about gunning ass Nique or Gervin, there are levels to it.

>-Harden wasn't gonna be a 6th man much longer

I've never heard him complain about being the 6th man behind Thabo when he was in OKC so that's all speculation. All he asked for was the max & not a starting job.

Even if he was a starter it wouldn't not have been a big deal, the Spurs won a chip in '05 w/ Manu as a starter & also won 61 games in '11 w/ Manu as a starter but he got injured in the regular season Finale. Manu also started a bunch of playoffs games without a hitch. It's not like Harden didn't play starter minutes anyways so him starting or coming off the bench is irrelevant. They would have been fine whether he came off the bench or started b/c starters' minutes could be staggered in a variety of ways to maximize touches.

WHAT'S GOOD *****? What's REALLY good?!?!????!!! Ha HA!
http://40.media.tumblr.com/d8e2daf9f3f37244cd05436bcdf05973/tumblr_mt4qibKq4c1rgam01o1_1280.png

  

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40thStreetBlack
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Tue Apr-14-15 09:49 PM

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71. "to reiterate:"
In response to Reply # 62


          

>KD-->Tim (Unselfish franchise cornerstone)
>Russy--> Tony (shooting guard masquerading as a PG)
>Harden--> Manu (PG masquerading as a shooting guard)

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=8&topic_id=2421643&mesg_id=2421643&listing_type=search#2422924

___________________

Mar-A-Lago delenda est

  

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FILF
Member since Jun 01st 2007
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Wed Apr-15-15 02:31 AM

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74. "Stay M-A-D my friend, stay M-A-D"
In response to Reply # 71


  

          

Seems like your sugar-walls still have my dick on speed dial.

WHAT'S GOOD *****? What's REALLY good?!?!????!!! Ha HA!
http://40.media.tumblr.com/d8e2daf9f3f37244cd05436bcdf05973/tumblr_mt4qibKq4c1rgam01o1_1280.png

  

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40thStreetBlack
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77. "stay on your meds my friend, stay on your meds"
In response to Reply # 74


          

>Seems like your sugar-walls still have my dick on speed
>dial.

seems like your mom still has Dirk's scheiße on her chest.

___________________

Mar-A-Lago delenda est

  

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FILF
Member since Jun 01st 2007
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Wed Apr-15-15 07:35 PM

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78. "Dirk is DONE so deal w/ it..Carlisle already recited his eulogy "
In response to Reply # 77
Wed Apr-15-15 07:40 PM by FILF

  

          

>seems like your mom still has Dirk's scheiße on her chest.

Dirk got butt fucked by Tiago & hasn't been able to recover from that embarrassing performance just like you haven't been able to recover from getting butt fucked in the Dirk agenda poAst. You are defending Dirk more than his wife or mom would...I'm pretty sure you have a crush on him: must be those blue eyes & blond hair.

WHAT'S GOOD *****? What's REALLY good?!?!????!!! Ha HA!
http://40.media.tumblr.com/d8e2daf9f3f37244cd05436bcdf05973/tumblr_mt4qibKq4c1rgam01o1_1280.png

  

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40thStreetBlack
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80. "Dirk back in dem 'offs & u mad as fuck AGAIN! GOOD!"
In response to Reply # 78


          

LOL u were cysing tiago as some superstar before. meanwhile Dirk scheißed in your mouth 3x over in that agenda post.

>I'm pretty sure you have a crush on him:

I'm pretty sure Dirk scheißed on ur mom and sent u a video of it.

must be those
>blue eyes & blond hair

Is that why ur mom let Dirk scheiße on her?

___________________

Mar-A-Lago delenda est

  

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FILF
Member since Jun 01st 2007
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82. "I"m HAPPY as hell bruh, I got agendas all over that series"
In response to Reply # 80


  

          

-Monta/Harden
-Mavs FINALLY winning a series AFTER Tyson is reacquired
-Dirk having ZERO excuses for not abusing Terrance Jones

BTW..you might want to look into Freud's "Fixation" theory since you CLEARLY are obsessed w/ Dirk's "scheißed" as you can't seem to keep it out of your mouth.

WHAT'S GOOD *****? What's REALLY good?!?!????!!! Ha HA!
http://40.media.tumblr.com/d8e2daf9f3f37244cd05436bcdf05973/tumblr_mt4qibKq4c1rgam01o1_1280.png

  

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40thStreetBlack
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87. "that series is a lose/lose proposition for you"
In response to Reply # 82


          

- Rox win and your Monta/Harden agenda loses
- Mavs win and your Dirk agenda loses (again)

any way you slice it, you lost.

>BTW..you might want to look into Freud's "Fixation" theory
>since you CLEARLY are obsessed w/ Dirk's "scheißed" as you
>can't seem to keep it out of your mouth.

your mom couldn't seem to keep it out of her mouth in that video.

___________________

Mar-A-Lago delenda est

  

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mistermaxxx08
Member since Dec 31st 2010
16076 posts
Wed Apr-15-15 11:34 PM

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79. "they have the wrong coach and no system"
In response to Reply # 0


          

you got a MVP, then two cats who are MVP runners up in Harden and Westbrook this year
and a cat like Surge who ain't nothing to sneeze at and Reggie Jackson was tough for a minute. problem is that wack coach,cornball inside pressence and that lack of a bench.

i still say a Phil Jackson triangle would have done wonders for Durant, Westbrook and Surge and if you still had Harden with a legit low post pressence and somebody off the bench then they are gonna own the west instead of watching golden state replace them

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
85056 posts
Fri Apr-17-15 10:35 AM

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81. "pretty much. the west was theirs for as long as they wanted it."
In response to Reply # 79


  

          

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71387 posts
Fri Apr-17-15 03:11 PM

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84. "that's a bold-ass statement. gotta respect the spurs more than that."
In response to Reply # 81


  

          

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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LA2Philly
Member since Oct 18th 2004
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Fri Apr-17-15 04:05 PM

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85. "This is OKS fam, rings are foregone conclusions lol"
In response to Reply # 84


  

          

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

  

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Cenario
Member since Aug 24th 2005
59169 posts
Fri Apr-17-15 04:10 PM

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86. "they woulda been the favorite to come out the west every year"
In response to Reply # 84


  

          

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

  

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Cenario
Member since Aug 24th 2005
59169 posts
Fri Apr-17-15 02:42 PM

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83. "They'd be in the playoffs this year."
In response to Reply # 0
Fri Apr-17-15 02:42 PM by Cenario

  

          

Houston would not.

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

  

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