with their guards getting long in the tooth (FTR, I'm not saying they can't play, just saying there is room for improvement there)
JJ is not a starting 2 on a chip team Jamal is a great 6th man, which means you still need a starting 2 Matt Barnes is a great defender, but you can't rely on him for points you can also factor in all being plagued by injuries recently
just a hunch
but I'd trade Blake for an elite 2 or 3 that can get you points.
figured I'd put it out there before they get bounced in the first round
1. "more than the 30+ points per game that blake gets you now?" In response to Reply # 0 Tue Mar-17-15 08:25 AM by Cenario
>but I'd trade Blake for an elite 2 or 3 that can get you points.
like who? the bron/melo/*durant*/Harden/Klays aint going nowhere
so now we looking at the kahwi/jimmy butler group.
Are you better off with them then blake?
Their biggest problem is that they are in the WEst and that they are always banged up in the playoffs.
JJ redick is avg 15 on 46% 42% shooting.
lol @ him not being a starting 2 on a championship team. If you put him on San An last year instead of Danny Green, the spurs lose?
c'mon.
-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.
4. "lol crawford is 7th on the 1st link. cmon." In response to Reply # 2 Tue Mar-17-15 12:03 PM by Cenario
if there is a good argument in here you going about it all wrong.
-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.
8. "sure they can improve at the 2/3 but does trading Blake for a 2/3" In response to Reply # 7
instantly make them better? No, unless the 2/3 is better than blake.
Besides, you will be leaving a gaping hole at pf because who fill those minutes..big baby? hawes? Where you have a capable 2 as your 6th man and an avg (at worst) starting already.
Every team in the West got some weakness. Whoever come out of the West will be because the Superstars balled out or a coach out schemes everyone like pop did last year + everyone stepping up.
Saying the Clips are weak at the 2/3 so they should trade blake for that is incredibly simplistic. And the 'evidence' you are using isn't really backing that at.
You are saying they are weak at shooting Guard but they have a sg who is in the top 7 in a metric you chose to use. Who cares if he's the 6th man. By your metric, he's one of the best shooting guards in the game.
-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.
>JJ redick is avg 15 on 46% 42% shooting. > >lol @ him not being a starting 2 on a championship team. If >you put him on San An last year instead of Danny Green, the >spurs lose? > >c'mon.
>just my opinion > >obviously, DJ shows out more without Blake > >with their guards getting long in the tooth (FTR, I'm not >saying they can't play, just saying there is room for >improvement there) > >JJ is not a starting 2 on a chip team >Jamal is a great 6th man, which means you still need a >starting 2 >Matt Barnes is a great defender, but you can't rely on him for >points >you can also factor in all being plagued by injuries recently > > >just a hunch > >but I'd trade Blake for an elite 2 or 3 that can get you >points. > >figured I'd put it out there before they get bounced in the >first round
Same with the durant stuff. After the harden trade blowback. Nobody wants to be that GM anymore.
A player may force something like Love did, but nobody is stupid enough to give away young all stars because of player x is good for a 3-4 stretch.
26. "you wouldnt lose em but you wouldnt gain em either" In response to Reply # 17
blake is a 4 and ibaka is a 4. plus they straightened up their center position finally with adams and kanter. it just makes little sense for them to make that move. blake is a helluva player but not quite as good as KD, and it would leave them with a redundancy at one spot and a void at another, a void magnified by their lack of depth on the wing in general.
And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.
11. "Don't think it would work out" In response to Reply # 0
But I can see the idea. All these teams are so excited about putting together Big 3's but when they come together one of the 3 always ends up turning into an overqualified role player. Ray Allen was clutch in Boston but his day-to-day role wasn't much more than Kyle Korver or J.J. Reddick. We all saw what happened to Bosh and Love with Miami and Cleveland respectively. Even the proto-big 3 in OKC saw James Harden relegated to a rich mans Jamal Crawford role.
I think we've seen that Blake and DJ can't play their full game together, either you have Blake at the elbow settling for 18 footers so DJ can make rim runs or you have DJ standing out of bounds on the baseline so Blake can do work down low.
The problem is I don't know if there is a match to provide the right 3 and D wing players and maybe a stretch four to make it worth trading a true star in Blake.
Orlando has some interesting pieces, I thought about Frye, Tobias Harris, Mo Harkless, and Fournier for Blake but that's a lot of young untested wings for the Clips and no shooting for Orlando.
I can kind of see the idea of trading Blake, but the Clips are still really good right now and I don't know that the right deal is out there.
27. "problem is they start two bench players as well" In response to Reply # 13
and DJ is in no way a max player.
He's overrated defensively (good rim protector, weakside blocker, good at fighting teammates out of defensive rebounds, just adequate as a man post defender).
He's mostly worthless on offense and the free-throw thing takes both he and his teammates out of rhythm often.
28. "i think youre slightly underselling DJ and JJ there" In response to Reply # 27
Redick as part of a platoon with crawford makes them more than adequate at the two.
DJ is overrated by boxscore Bobs and underrated by bball nerds. He has become a truly superlative rebounder, for openers. Defesively, yes, he is primarily a weakside shot blocker but he is damn good at it and his overall game has improved. He is much more in control out there, in terms of himself (avoiding foul trouble and other bad risks) and in terms of the team. He is a leader out there on the floor on the defensive end and he keeps getting better. He is everything Dalembert should have been and IMO it won't be long until he isn't just the best defensive player statistically but a real DPOY.
Offensively he gets you double digits on very efficient "shooting" (more like dunking) and works well with Blake, especially now that Blake has extended his range. You can't help up off him, he will be jamming it on your ass off a lob. He is a threat near the rim, he doesn't really turn the ball over and he doesn't miss much of anything. I think he contributes more at that end than he gets credit for, especially since he is basically their fourth option.
Barnes as your starting three, however, is hurt piece.
And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.
15. "Wrong! (c) Chollie Murphy" In response to Reply # 0
They don't fuck with their core, they just hope Crawford is healthy and that they can add a bench player or two that is worth his salt. It's gonna be tough because DJ is in line for a raise. They got deep pockets in the owner's box now, so he better say FUCK A LUXURY TAX and get that lil paper clip to help him find a point guard and a big worth a shit.
And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.
they finished on a high note and ended up high in their conference. they already took the champs to 7. so how far away could they be? crawford is only about 70% (generous maybe) and right now they have no other bench (big baby hurt). so how far away can they be if they are using 5.5 guys (really five, barnes is roughly half a guy too lol) and competing this closely with the defending champs who were also the hottest team in the league after the break?
And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.
auragin_boi Member since Aug 01st 2003 20939 posts
Fri May-01-15 08:15 AM
19. "They need a SF too...Barnes is a 20mins a night off the bench goon" In response to Reply # 15
at this point. Guys like Harrison Barnes, Wes Matthews, Wilson Chandler (or Gallo) and Tobias Harris would give them exactly what they need at that spot.
23. "I agree with what Zach Lowe said earlier this week on a podcast" In response to Reply # 0
Bill Don't Lie, probably (ugh, that name).
The problem isn't the core, even with DJ's getting-fouled trouble if you tell me I can have Chris Paul, Blake Griffin and DeAndre Jordan on the same team I'm taking that to the bank.
The trouble s Hedo Turkoglu and Austin Rivers getting important minutes in the playoffs. HEDO. TURKOGLU. Overtime Jalen Rose cracks a joke about being inspired to get back in the gym by Hedo I crack the fuck up.
Jamal Crawford, a streaky bit of wildfire, and Hedo Turkoglu are the most name-brand people on that bench. For a team that wins 50 games every year and has the best pure PG in the league, that's a fuckin' problem. The Clippers have a Top Five starting Five, but I'm not sure there's a worse bench in the league. That's a real problem.
25. "RE: I agree with what Zach Lowe said earlier this week on a podcast" In response to Reply # 23
>The trouble s Hedo Turkoglu and Austin Rivers getting >important minutes in the playoffs. HEDO. TURKOGLU. Overtime >Jalen Rose cracks a joke about being inspired to get back in >the gym by Hedo I crack the fuck up. >
And Jamal Crawford is hella overrated with his bad shot takin ass. Hedo is just lazy as shit.
dula dibiasi Member since Apr 05th 2004 21925 posts
Sun May-03-15 09:20 PM
31. "i feel like 95% of clipps evals i read online are completely idiotic." In response to Reply # 30
it's like ppl just go dumb for whatever reason when it comes to this team.
their starting 5 was literally the best 5 man lineup in the nba this season. that isn't my opinion, they led the league in net rating and in raw plus-minus. they were as good as anyone, even golden state's starters.
they were also 6th in overall efficiency differential @ the shooting guard position, 28th @ small forward, and 30th out of 30 in bench efficiency differential.
so all this talk about 'blake and dj can't play together' or 'redick and crawford @ SG isn't good enough' is wrong. it's just wrong. like, everyone's entitled to their opinion, but that's a wrong opinion.
the clippers need an upgrade @ starting SF and also the back end rotation (8 / 9 / 10 spots). those should be their goals this offseason. blowing up their core would be ridiculous. it's one of the best in basketball.
___
it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes
32. "people guess too much on the far west, refuse to stay up late" In response to Reply # 31
i find that in all sports, if you play in the pacific (and often even the mountain) time zone, people around the country/league have the dumbest impressions of the teams and players on them.
matt barnes is kind of ass but he gives them some grit and occasionally more than that. bench is stinkier than week-old fish grease. it'll be hard to upgrade it while giving DJ a raise. let's not forget that barnes and crawford are kinda old. if they could somehow move hawes and split his salary between two serviceable players, they would be set.
And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.
33. "They could use a younger better Barnes" In response to Reply # 32
Not sure who would be out there that would fill that role though unless Doc found some Pop-like magic in unearthing a Danny Green type (which I have absolutely zero confidence that he'd actually do). Barnes actually fits the starting 5 well as far as role, CP3 and Blake are going to dominate most of the possessions and Redick needs his shots too so it's good if you can fill the other two starting spots with guys who don't need touches to be effective. You'd like someone who's a steadier spot up shooter and younger and more athletic than Barnes to take that spot and willing to live off 7-8 shots a game like Barnes... but the list of guys who could do all that under 30 at a reasonable price isn't all that long (unfortunately one of them plays at Golden State).
We'll see if they can upgrade the bench this offseason, if they could get someone to shift Barnes to the bench and Hawes bounces back that'd really go a long way to improving that, I agree about the refusing to stay up late thing though. Can't totally blame them though, everytime I'm on the East Coast it's a fucking challenge to stay up late enough to see West Coast games, if you get them on TV at all. On the West Coast most of the East/Central time zone games are finishing up when you get home from work so you can at least catch the second halves, but you have to be totally nuts to regularly spend your 12-2 AM hours watching West Coast sports.
34. "i did it when i lived back east " In response to Reply # 33
granted i didnt have a job where i had to be up butt early (usually 10 AM three times a week, whenever i wanted the other four) but as a sportswriter it's not exactly an up-with-the-roosters schedule either.
i can remember being up until 4 in the fucking morning watching the canucks and stars play three (maybe four?) overtimes in a game in vancouver once.
it's their job to know!
out here i still watch a lot of eastern games. like i try to pick an eastern team to follow (easy when the philly teams are worth a shit) and kind of use them as a gauge for the teams out there, then watch the hot matchups. you just have to watch a lot of games. sometimes though i think outlets don't understand that. you have so many of these catch-all types, not only at the national level but at the local level. like take a show like PTI or ATH, they can't possibly be *experts* on eight different sports and all the different actors therein. their job isn't about saying the right thing at some time, it's about saying something at the right time.
And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.
38. "clips better without CP3...should give the reigns to Austin" In response to Reply # 0
lol
-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.
45. "RE: Blake for Pau and McBuckets" In response to Reply # 44
>Or Blake for Al Jefferson and MKG >Or Blake for Bosh and Deng > >Pau and McDermott is the best package although the trade for >Bosh would give them a better 4 and upside at the 3.
As much as I would dig a trade like that to the Bulls AINT NO WAY THAT'S HAPPENING....lol
Pau is 36...And McBuckets has been up and down all season....We would have to give up more in order to land someone on the level of Blake....
GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....
46. "Hell...at this rate, Blake will def. be traded...." In response to Reply # 0
Part of the Clippers statement on incident: "His conduct has no place in our organization and this incident does not represent who we are as team," the Clippers organization said. "We are conducting a full investigation with assistance from the NBA. At the conclusion of the investigation, appropriate action will be taken."
I smell a trade....
GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....
High Society Member since Oct 13th 2003 7375 posts
Tue Jan-26-16 08:33 PM
47. "Bosh & Deng for Blake has been mentioned by people" In response to Reply # 0
but wonder if it messes up Riles' plan / attempt to go after kd in summer.
Personally, I think kd gonna sign a one year deal and become FA again when Westbrook is also a FA and talk to him about what he's gonna do.
Man, if they BOTH leave - good luck OKC... actually karma would exist. Owners did Seattle dirty and would deserve to immediately become doormat of NBA with no chance of recruiting star free agents.
not sure who says no there. i think LA hangs up on bosh/deng. bosh/winslow @ the very least makes it a longer conversation. i still don't know if that's enough to get it done.
it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes
it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes
56. "A trade that makes sense for both teams is Blake for PG" In response to Reply # 0
Bird wanted PG to play the 4 but he refused & the Clips need a wing player b/c Mbah a Moute is unplayable in the postseason.
Hill/Monta are both combo guards so Blake can slide in & play point forward alongside Turner. PG can play the Kawhi role & stay in his lane instead of trying to get his Kevin Durant on by jacking up contested jumpers.
The Clips still need a PF so just swap Wes Johnson with Jordan Hill as part of the deal. Although he's an empty stats guy, Jordan Hill can hit mid-range jumpers & won't get in DeAndre's way. (He has an expiring contract so they can dump him at the end of the season)
58. "At what point does deandre get all the shots that was promised him when" In response to Reply # 0
cp3 and doc barricaded him in his house?
Shoulda got that written in the contract, deande know all about broken promises.
-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.
63. "Blake's not giving up money to facilitate a trade." In response to Reply # 62
Blake can sign a 200 million dollar deal if he stays with the Clips this offseason. He's not signing a smaller extension to help work a deal to be an odd fit alongside 'Zingis.
-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.
67. "Well after three or four years, I am kinda on board" In response to Reply # 0
They never rounded out the team the way they needed to in order to make the big three they had work. They needed to have an excellent bench and they didn't even really put together a starting five. Never got good reserve bigs (Spencer Hawes kinda fucked them), handed a shit contract to Rivers, etc.
It was done and frankly they dodged a bullet not having to pay CP3 huge ass money right as his inevitable physical decline was nearing. He will earn his money for two years, maybe three, not five.
Now though they have kind of a rag tag collection and of course Griffin has had multiple injuries since the OP was made.
I would definitely gauge interest for him and eye a rebuild. He isn't old enough to create urgency around it but I'd sure be listening to offers. They sold themselves short with draft picks. This won't be an easy rebuild but it was a likely one and now it's pretty much a necessary one.
And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.
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