Hilarious to turn on my set and see Scoop Jackson complaining about
how the game is "soft" and not like the 80's & 90's. Scoop is up there
yelling and screaming on an ESPN panel on some "these guys wouldn't
last in the 90's!" - really a special form of Napolean Dynamite syndrome
coming from Scoop Jackson, as for him to call any elite athlete "soft"
is comical beyond belief - but it's not as if he's alone in that opinion.

Next, Isiah Thomas is on NBATV spouting off about how it's so "insulting"
for Ray Allen to be considering playing at 40, and how it would "never
happen" when he played. Lol.

Let's clear a few things up:

~Guys in the 80's/90's did not condition, fuel, and prepare their bodies
like Ray Allen does. Follow a day in his life in Miami and you'll see somebody
dedicated to anti-aging lifestyle habits and militant-like conditioning. Most
guys in the 80's/90's who turned 40 were done w/ that level of commitment
and thus fell off at a more rapid clip. Also, today's athlete is just more durable,
better built, better conditioned/fueled, and represents a slight leap in evolution -
so yes, they will be able to play better, longer, than what occurred 20/30 years ago

~Players are different now, they aren't 'softer' --- If you let guys like Dwight Howard, Russy
Westbroook, and LeBron James play a more physical brand of basketball like what went down 20/30 years ago, you'd see way more injuries, more explosive collisions, and all out mayhem in the paint. The game had to adapt to guys getting bigger, stronger, more athletic, and better conditioned.

Yes, everyone loves their era - and the 80's/90's were absolutely special - but I'm tired of these Ultra Nostalgia cats degrading the present era and acting like Bean, Bron, Elmo, Durant, Westbrook, Harden, Curry, Brow, 'Melo, KG/Pierce, Dirk, (MVP) Rose etc.. wouldn't compete and thrive in the 80's/90's. They would be a problem in any era.

and how come Scoop Jackson dresses like Ba-Humbug? #NotLikeThis

-->

>Yes, everyone loves their era - and the 80's/90's were
>absolutely special - but I'm tired of these Ultra Nostalgia
>cats degrading the present era and acting like Bean, Bron,
>Elmo, Durant, Westbrook, Harden, Curry, Brow, 'Melo,
>KG/Pierce, Dirk, (MVP) Rose etc.. wouldn't compete and thrive
>in the 80's/90's. They would be a problem in any era.

ummm...half them dudes DID play in the 90's

"when I was growin' up if we wanted a jacuzzi we had to fart in the tub!"

>
>>Yes, everyone loves their era - and the 80's/90's were
>>absolutely special - but I'm tired of these Ultra Nostalgia
>>cats degrading the present era and acting like Bean, Bron,
>>Elmo, Durant, Westbrook, Harden, Curry, Brow, 'Melo,
>>KG/Pierce, Dirk, (MVP) Rose etc.. wouldn't compete and
>thrive
>>in the 80's/90's. They would be a problem in any era.
>
>ummm...half them dudes DID play in the 90's

they were puppies back then - all the aforementioned didn't
come of age until after 2000.

-->

>>
>>>Yes, everyone loves their era - and the 80's/90's were
>>>absolutely special - but I'm tired of these Ultra Nostalgia
>>>cats degrading the present era and acting like Bean, Bron,
>>>Elmo, Durant, Westbrook, Harden, Curry, Brow, 'Melo,
>>>KG/Pierce, Dirk, (MVP) Rose etc.. wouldn't compete and
>>thrive
>>>in the 80's/90's. They would be a problem in any era.
>>
>>ummm...half them dudes DID play in the 90's
>
>they were puppies back then - all the aforementioned didn't
>come of age until after 2000.

Duncan won a title in 99, Kobe the next year, Duncan, Kobe, and KG were all-stars in the 90's, Dirk and Pierce were on the way

"when I was growin' up if we wanted a jacuzzi we had to fart in the tub!"

>Duncan won a title in 99, Kobe the next year, Duncan, Kobe,
>and KG were all-stars in the 90's, Dirk and Pierce were on the
>way

Ok - so one of those guys won a title in '99 when he was a puppy w/ that Spurs team anchored by prime Admiral.

so again, yes: those guys all came of age after the new century.

-->

Duncan was that '99 title team's best player by a wide margin.

https://soundcloud.com/matt-koelling-666011203

www.somethinginthewudder.com

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https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-koelling-438a80

Admiral was starting his downward trajectory around '98/'99 - but still was
very good. Duncan was drafted in '97 - but yes, immediately developed
into a monster.

Vast majority of his body of work came after 2000, obviously - which is the point:
We're talking about the dominant players after 2000.


-->

came in during the mid to late 90s

Don't really see what the debate is abt


>Duncan won a title in 99, Kobe the next year, Duncan, Kobe,
>and KG were all-stars in the 90's, Dirk and Pierce were on the
>way

grassrootsphilosopher

complaining that the game had become TOO PHYSICAL...and that all the physical and *dirty* play was ruining the artistry of the game

Just because someone can go out and commit a hard or flagrant foul doesn't make them tougher

I've had arguments w/folks who share this sentiment abt today's players and I continue to say that if you put someone like Lebron, for instance, in the 80s that he would ABSOLUTELY DESTROY those *small forwards* from the 80s (yes, including Bird)

Lebron at 265 would be bigger than nearly ALL the centers from that 80s decade let alone the small forwards

The PGs today would also DESTROY the PGs from the 80s

There is not one PG I can think of from the 80s who could stay in front of Westbrook or a Kyrie

The PF position in the 80s hadn't evolved nowhere close to what it has become now insofar as sklls and talent-level are concerned.

Trust me, I get more and more tired of hearing analysts and former players lamenting abt the "glory days" of yesteryear. smh

The physicality doesn't enhance the game or make it more exciting


>Hilarious to turn on my set and see Scoop Jackson complaining
>about
>how the game is "soft" and not like the 80's & 90's. Scoop is
>up there
>yelling and screaming on an ESPN panel on some "these guys
>wouldn't
>last in the 90's!" - really a special form of Napolean
>Dynamite syndrome
>coming from Scoop Jackson, as for him to call any elite
>athlete "soft"
>is comical beyond belief - but it's not as if he's alone in
>that opinion.
>
>Next, Isiah Thomas is on NBATV spouting off about how it's so
>"insulting"
>for Ray Allen to be considering playing at 40, and how it
>would "never
>happen" when he played. Lol.
>
>Let's clear a few things up:
>
>~Guys in the 80's/90's did not condition, fuel, and prepare
>their bodies
>like Ray Allen does. Follow a day in his life in Miami and
>you'll see somebody
>dedicated to anti-aging lifestyle habits and militant-like
>conditioning. Most
>guys in the 80's/90's who turned 40 were done w/ that level of
>commitment
>and thus fell off at a more rapid clip. Also, today's athlete
>is just more durable,
>better built, better conditioned/fueled, and represents a
>slight leap in evolution -
>so yes, they will be able to play better, longer, than what
>occurred 20/30 years ago
>
>~Players are different now, they aren't 'softer' --- If you
>let guys like Dwight Howard, Russy
>Westbroook, and LeBron James play a more physical brand of
>basketball like what went down 20/30 years ago, you'd see way
>more injuries, more explosive collisions, and all out mayhem
>in the paint. The game had to adapt to guys getting bigger,
>stronger, more athletic, and better conditioned.
>
>Yes, everyone loves their era - and the 80's/90's were
>absolutely special - but I'm tired of these Ultra Nostalgia
>cats degrading the present era and acting like Bean, Bron,
>Elmo, Durant, Westbrook, Harden, Curry, Brow, 'Melo,
>KG/Pierce, Dirk, (MVP) Rose etc.. wouldn't compete and thrive
>in the 80's/90's. They would be a problem in any era.
>
>and how come Scoop Jackson dresses like Ba-Humbug?
>#NotLikeThis
>
>-->

grassrootsphilosopher

shooters, ball-handlers, and better athletes in today's game. So add that
with the fact that guys are bigger and stronger, and it defies logic to
say that the game has regressed and that these guys couldn't hold weight
in the 80's/90's.

Reminds me of baby-boomers who claim that a 6'1, 195 pound farmer
(who happened to win a belt) would "destroy" wladimir klitschko.

shit is absurd.


-->

/d

~~~~~~

Jalen likes to use that one and I've heard some other old guys with similar opinions. It's silly on a lot of levels.

In a generation of swine, the one-eyed pig is king.
-Hunter S. Thompson

>Jalen likes to use that one and I've heard some other old
>guys with similar opinions. It's silly on a lot of levels.


-->

i've had this discussion re: the thibs criticisms. this preoccupation
with resting guys is definitely a recent phenomenon. playing your
superstars big minutes wasn't a 'thing' until a few yrs ago.

lebron's first run in cle (03-10) he avgd 40+ mpg. since kobe became a
full time starter in yr 3 he's avgd 39 mpg. scottie avgd 38 as a
starter w/ chicago. jordan 39. when duncan was jimmy butler's age he
played 41 mpg.

now it's 'you've gotta play your guys 25 mpg like the spurs do so
they don't get hurt', never mind that the spurs have just as many
guys missing time w/ injury (mills, leonard, parker, splitter) as
everyone else does.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

>i've had this discussion re: the thibs criticisms. this
>preoccupation
>with resting guys is definitely a recent phenomenon. playing
>your
>superstars big minutes wasn't a 'thing' until a few yrs ago.
>
>lebron's first run in cle (03-10) he avgd 40+ mpg. since kobe
>became a
>full time starter in yr 3 he's avgd 39 mpg. scottie avgd 38 as
>a
>starter w/ chicago. jordan 39. when duncan was jimmy butler's
>age he
>played 41 mpg.

Playing lots of MPG is one thing but when it comes to the Bulls in particular, similar to the Heat under Riles, it's the daily grind of their practices that I've heard ppl discuss and write abt as to why the Bulls players stay on the IR list

Notice that every player who plays significant minutes for the Bulls has been injured and missed a ton of gms
-Rose
-Noah
-Gibson
-Heinrich
-Butler
-Dunleavy
-Deng (when he was there)

This is why the Bulls front office had to *make* Thibs cut down on his player's minutes two seasons ago

The Bulls are the exception and not the norm...same as the Heat under Pat Riley...he was known for working the dogshit out of his players during practice which is why when there were ppl saying Riles needed to come down from the front office and take over the HC position from Spo the ones who didn't agree w/that idea were the PLAYERS (specifically Wade) because Riles was known for having 4-5 hour practices according to players who played for him
>
>now it's 'you've gotta play your guys 25 mpg like the spurs do
>so
>they don't get hurt', never mind that the spurs have just as
>many
>guys missing time w/ injury (mills, leonard, parker, splitter)
>as
>everyone else does.

As far as I know, Pop is the only coach in the league who plays his starters under 30 mpg...

grassrootsphilosopher

the level of athleticism that today's game is played with, and what we know about sports injuries, it's just logical. Not to mention that the amount of ball kids play in high school/AAU/College has all increased a ton, so there's additional stress put on these guys as they're growing in to their bodies.

You don't have to limit players to 25 minutes a night, but if you're the Spurs and a good number of your players are closer to 40 than 30, it makes sense.

In a generation of swine, the one-eyed pig is king.
-Hunter S. Thompson

80s defense, post play, and coaching was much better.

The modern player is a better athlete, on average, but they play such a different type of ball than the 80s.

90s ball, in general, is waaaaaaaay overrated. It was a transitional period that kinda was a low point in coaching in the NBA

that being said, some cats would just be great no matter when they played - Duncan, Lebron, Westbrook, Kobe, etc. But at the same time, the conditional development would be different too. Durant wouldn't be coached to jack up threes and handle like crazy by any coach before the mid 90s maybe, for example.

I do miss the handcheck though.