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Subject: "NBA: 90s vs Now" Search result list | First match | Last match
John Forte
Member since Feb 22nd 2013
15361 posts
Tue Feb-17-15 12:49 PM

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"NBA: 90s vs Now"


          

I had a long conversation with a few old friends this weekend about current players vs 90s players. There was a bit of disagreement about which era had better players top-to-bottom, but mainly because some niggas are stuck in the 90s. The most interesting part of the conversation was trying to figure out which stars wouldn't be stars if they were transplanted into the other era.

I'm pretty sure Chris Mullen, Reggie Miller and Clyde Drexler wouldn't be stars in today's NBA. The only modern star who I'm pretty sure wouldn't translate back to the 90s is Dwight.

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
Why?
Feb 17th 2015
1
Reggie Miller would be an even bigger star today
Feb 17th 2015
2
Less handchecking and Goonish D.
Feb 17th 2015
3
      Reggie couldn't create his own shot
Feb 17th 2015
4
           Post over...
Feb 17th 2015
5
           smfh.
Feb 17th 2015
6
           Reggie >>>>>>>>>> Kyle Korver
Feb 17th 2015
9
           He'd definitely be an all-star
Feb 17th 2015
10
                Depends on the team
Feb 17th 2015
25
                     basically.
Feb 17th 2015
27
                          Those pistons wouldn't have won a chip with Reggie
Feb 17th 2015
36
                               Rip was a serviceable defender, nothing more
Feb 17th 2015
40
                               cmon man.
Feb 17th 2015
42
                               Prince/Billups used to take the toughest assignments on defense
Feb 18th 2015
66
                               Man, just stop and KIM
Feb 18th 2015
94
           LOL, a specialist?
Feb 17th 2015
31
           getting to your sweet spots by tirelessly running off picks counts IMO
Feb 17th 2015
41
           and once the D cheats, you go to your counters
Feb 17th 2015
           http://funnyand.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Why-Doves-Cry.jpg
Feb 17th 2015
53
lulz
Feb 17th 2015
7
Drexler would be the second best shooting guard in the NBA right today
Feb 17th 2015
8
Ah, the positional designation sticking point
Feb 17th 2015
11
      LOL. point is he'd be an elite player
Feb 17th 2015
26
Perimeter players that couldn't shoot and big guy stiffs would suffer mo...
Feb 17th 2015
12
90s had the center position on lock
Feb 17th 2015
13
...no. Fuck no. 90s was the beginning of the end of the big men
Feb 18th 2015
75
RE: Perimeter players that couldn't shoot and big guy stiffs would suffe...
Feb 17th 2015
14
strick would be getting to the rack w/ ease today.
Feb 17th 2015
16
RE: Perimeter players that couldn't shoot and big guy stiffs would suffe...
Feb 17th 2015
19
Asik, Perkins, Robin Lopez, Larry Sanders, Bargnani, Haslem
Feb 17th 2015
33
Splitter nutted on Dirk & put the clamps on a LMA in the 2014 postseason
Feb 18th 2015
120
Kendrick Perkins is inexplicable in any era
Feb 17th 2015
59
drexler developed a competent 3 pt shot in his later career.
Feb 17th 2015
22
And what would Melo shoot as 2nd fiddle to prime Hakeem?
Feb 17th 2015
58
RE: And what would Melo shoot as 2nd fiddle to prime Hakeem?
Feb 17th 2015
61
Those were the years with the shortened 3 point line
Feb 18th 2015
85
      RE: Those were the years with the shortened 3 point line
Feb 18th 2015
89
Robin Lopez is a major contributor...
Feb 18th 2015
97
      I should have gone Kendrick Perkins
Feb 18th 2015
102
RE: NBA: 90s vs Now
Feb 17th 2015
15
these ppl are nuts. they clearly didn't watch drexler.
Feb 17th 2015
18
RE: these ppl are nuts. they clearly didn't watch drexler.
Feb 17th 2015
21
but he wouldnt have the size &athleticism to compete w/NBA players today
Feb 17th 2015
35
      lulz
Feb 17th 2015
43
      neither would MJ or Kemp or Barkley or KJ or Glove, etc...
Feb 17th 2015
54
Niggaz talking like Drexler would be Gary Neal or some shit.
Feb 17th 2015
47
      Hersey Hawkins be at home with that ass big mustache..
Feb 17th 2015
48
           And the Splash Brothers would love a 22 foot 3 point line
Feb 17th 2015
60
RE: NBA: 90s vs Now
Feb 17th 2015
17
This isn't a ringing endorsement
Feb 17th 2015
20
      RE: This isn't a ringing endorsement
Feb 17th 2015
23
           none of this is debatable.
Feb 17th 2015
24
                the 2nd half of that list is most certainly debatable.
Feb 18th 2015
70
                     RE: the 2nd half of that list is most certainly debatable.
Feb 18th 2015
73
Log off. Burn your computer. Rip out your internet.
Feb 17th 2015
28
the 90s wasn't that long ago.
Feb 17th 2015
29
we're old
Feb 17th 2015
34
Penny's prime was 20 years ago
Feb 17th 2015
37
Past-prime Clyde held his own against prime Penny in the Finals
Feb 18th 2015
68
I'm sayin
Feb 17th 2015
50
20 years was a long time ago
Feb 17th 2015
57
      RE: 20 years was a long time ago
Feb 17th 2015
62
Wow
Feb 17th 2015
30
All of this
Feb 17th 2015
52
naw but my perspective is changing on 80s players....
Feb 17th 2015
32
Mike Conley is a starting pg today. Why couldn't Mo Cheeks be one?
Feb 17th 2015
51
not to mention those same 80s players held Jordan in check until 1991
Feb 17th 2015
56
      no the fuck they didn't. Jordan was putting up video game numbers
Feb 18th 2015
71
           he's most remembered for what he did starting in 91
Feb 18th 2015
72
                so long as you admit you completely fabricated the part where anyone
Feb 18th 2015
84
                     yeah, other than phil knight nobody really kept jordan 'in check'
Feb 18th 2015
100
                     lol - there's nothing to admit..
Feb 18th 2015
106
                          Robert Horry >>>>> Karl Malone
Feb 20th 2015
130
Mo Cheeks would be Andre Miller except eons better on defense
Feb 18th 2015
65
this didn't go like you planned huh JF
Feb 17th 2015
38
Would Michael Jordan have starred in today's NBA?
Feb 17th 2015
39
90s basketball was bad basketball, too physical
Feb 17th 2015
44
Kawhi Leonard would've killed it in the 90s
Feb 17th 2015
45
Kyle Korver, Jeff Teague, Dirk's corpse, Milsap, were just All Stars..
Feb 17th 2015
46
you dont know shit about clyde drexler
Feb 17th 2015
49
Golden era - but there's always a tendency to romanticise past eras
Feb 17th 2015
55
Let's all agree to send Kyle Lowry and Al Jefferson to the 90s tho
Feb 17th 2015
63
Hibbert/Pau/Dirk/Bosh would get abused in the paint in the 90s
Feb 18th 2015
64
there was no perimeter defender to guard Dirk in those days
Feb 18th 2015
105
      Dirk used to LIVE at the FT line b/c of touch fouls
Feb 18th 2015
110
           cool
Feb 18th 2015
113
James Harden woulda been 2nd best SG in the game in 92-95
Feb 18th 2015
67
John Starks wept / Mark Price would have eaten in todays NBA
Feb 18th 2015
69
RE: James Harden woulda been 2nd best SG in the game in 92-95
Feb 18th 2015
74
RE: James Harden woulda been 2nd best SG in the game in 92-95
Feb 18th 2015
76
RE: James Harden woulda been 2nd best SG in the game in 92-95
Feb 18th 2015
77
you know what else is amazing about modern ball?
Feb 18th 2015
81
OOO
Feb 18th 2015
78
      RE: OOO
Feb 18th 2015
79
      yall really be on that janet jackson
Feb 18th 2015
83
           or one night.
Feb 18th 2015
96
                captain literal query over here
Feb 18th 2015
98
                     wrong and mad.
Feb 18th 2015
101
                          naw that was pretty tokpr
Feb 18th 2015
103
                               lolz
Feb 18th 2015
104
      FUCK no he's not
Feb 18th 2015
86
      potential? howard is 30 with a bad back
Feb 18th 2015
88
           RE: potential? howard is 30 with a bad back
Feb 18th 2015
90
           dwight played in an NBA with maybe 3 or 4 centers in it
Feb 18th 2015
91
      Dwight isn't close to any of those dudes
Feb 18th 2015
87
      yeah, that shit was dumb.
Feb 18th 2015
92
      Moses = most underrated of all time
Feb 18th 2015
93
           agreed.
Feb 18th 2015
112
           Oh so y'all missed this poAst:-->
Feb 18th 2015
121
      RE: OOO
Feb 18th 2015
99
      Dwight is a more athletic version Alonzo Mourning
Feb 18th 2015
122
           Dwight has 12% of Zo's fire and toughness
Feb 19th 2015
125
           That falls under the "intangibles" category which is negligible
Feb 20th 2015
133
           stop making player comparisons
Feb 20th 2015
128
                lmao
Feb 20th 2015
129
                As long as it makes you IRRATIONALLY MAD I'll keep doing it
Feb 20th 2015
132
Read what I said. 92-95 Drexler, not 80's Drexler
Feb 18th 2015
109
      RE: Read what I said. 92-95 Drexler, not 80's Drexler
Feb 18th 2015
111
           Lmao man y'all are so literal, shit!!!!!
Feb 18th 2015
115
Harden's Better Than Drexler Now?
Feb 18th 2015
107
      Harden TODAY and 92-95 Drexler....y'all are ignoring that part.
Feb 18th 2015
108
           Sprewell was 1st team All-NBA during that period so you are right
Feb 18th 2015
124
everything that happened in my childhood is better than everything today
Feb 18th 2015
80
ya'll should be required to post your age in some of these posts.
Feb 18th 2015
82
Scouting is hard work...
Feb 18th 2015
95
EWING would clean the fuck up in 2014...
Feb 18th 2015
114
that's actually an important point
Feb 18th 2015
116
      Doesn't this work both ways too?
Feb 18th 2015
117
           absolutely agree w/ all that.
Feb 18th 2015
118
           Exactly, this is why so many cross-gen debates are pointless imo
Feb 18th 2015
119
                What about "he had a broke jumper and suspect handle"
Feb 19th 2015
126
Sam Perkins would have gotten paid!
Feb 18th 2015
123
Paul Pierce and Klay Thompson are/were stars in today's NBA
Feb 20th 2015
127
RE: Paul Pierce and Klay Thompson are/were stars in today's NBA
Feb 20th 2015
131

ErnestLee
Member since Mar 03rd 2003
28533 posts
Tue Feb-17-15 12:50 PM

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1. "Why?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


>
>I'm pretty sure Chris Mullen, Reggie Miller and Clyde Drexler
>wouldn't be stars in today's NBA.

---------------------------------------------------------

  

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Kungset
Member since Mar 29th 2004
6426 posts
Tue Feb-17-15 12:55 PM

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2. "Reggie Miller would be an even bigger star today"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

give him 3-4 more 3 point attempts per game, stick him on a fast-paced team, and he's lighting it up.

  

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gmltheone
Member since Jun 11th 2003
8564 posts
Tue Feb-17-15 01:01 PM

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3. "Less handchecking and Goonish D. "
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

>give him 3-4 more 3 point attempts per game, stick him on a
>fast-paced team, and he's lighting it up.

On the right team reggie miller would put up 30ppg.
----------------------------
Same as it ever was!

  

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John Forte
Member since Feb 22nd 2013
15361 posts
Tue Feb-17-15 01:02 PM

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4. "Reggie couldn't create his own shot"
In response to Reply # 3


          

He'd be a specialist today

  

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gmltheone
Member since Jun 11th 2003
8564 posts
Tue Feb-17-15 01:13 PM

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5. "Post over..."
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

>He'd be a specialist today

Thanks for coming. Remember to tip the waitresses.
----------------------------
Same as it ever was!

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
21925 posts
Tue Feb-17-15 01:15 PM

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6. "smfh."
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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auragin_boi
Member since Aug 01st 2003
20939 posts
Tue Feb-17-15 01:29 PM

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9. "Reggie >>>>>>>>>> Kyle Korver"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

Korver was an allstar

Safe to say, specialist or not, he'd still be a star.

All star players today can't create their own shot.

Luol Deng's been an allstar twice and he can't lol

FOH

____________

  

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John Forte
Member since Feb 22nd 2013
15361 posts
Tue Feb-17-15 01:33 PM

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10. "He'd definitely be an all-star"
In response to Reply # 9


          

but let's face it, being an all-star and being a star are two different things. Reggie Miller was a superstar, and the first option on playoff team. There's no way that would happen today.

  

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auragin_boi
Member since Aug 01st 2003
20939 posts
Tue Feb-17-15 02:15 PM

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25. "Depends on the team"
In response to Reply # 10
Tue Feb-17-15 02:32 PM by auragin_boi

  

          

Reggie is better than Rip Hamilton and Korver and on par with Ray Allen. Those guys have experienced success in todays game. They had the right systems in place for them on the right teams.

I think he could be the best player on a playoff team today...easily.

He'd be the best player on Mil, Mia, Phx, Cha, ATL (yes, he's better than the whole roster) and maybe even Tor.

Klay Thompson's numbers look a lot like Reggie's in his prime. Klay would be the best player on any of the teams I just named. Klay's a better defender but Reggie was a better shooter.

____________

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
21925 posts
Tue Feb-17-15 02:17 PM

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27. "basically."
In response to Reply # 25


  

          

prime reggie >>> rip

rip was the leading scorer on a champion.

case closed.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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John Forte
Member since Feb 22nd 2013
15361 posts
Tue Feb-17-15 04:36 PM

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36. "Those pistons wouldn't have won a chip with Reggie"
In response to Reply # 27


          

they needed Rip's defense

  

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cgonz00cc
Member since Aug 01st 2002
35272 posts
Tue Feb-17-15 05:20 PM

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40. "Rip was a serviceable defender, nothing more"
In response to Reply # 36


  

          

By 2004 Rip was a better overall player right then

But prime Reggie as opposed to prime Rip probably means the Pistons win at least 2 chips, probably 3 or 4

Rip was never the distance shooter that Miller was.

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
21925 posts
Tue Feb-17-15 05:36 PM

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42. "cmon man."
In response to Reply # 36


  

          

rip was okay on that end, but he was easily the weakest defender in
that starting 5. they'd have still been defensively elite even w/
someone as bad as a harden or jamal crawford manning the 2.

the difference btwn RM/RH on defense, and the impact that
difference would've made, is negligible. while on offense, miller was
the far superior outside shooter and money time shotmaker.

put prime reggie on that team in rip's place and they win multiple chips.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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FILF
Member since Jun 01st 2007
20180 posts
Wed Feb-18-15 05:09 AM

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66. "Prince/Billups used to take the toughest assignments on defense"
In response to Reply # 36


  

          

The Pistons used to hide Rip just like the Spurs hide Parker on the easiest defensive assignment while Kawhi/Danny Green handle the toughest assignments.

WHAT'S GOOD *****? What's REALLY good?!?!????!!! Ha HA!
http://40.media.tumblr.com/d8e2daf9f3f37244cd05436bcdf05973/tumblr_mt4qibKq4c1rgam01o1_1280.png

  

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LA2Philly
Member since Oct 18th 2004
41249 posts
Wed Feb-18-15 10:24 AM

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94. "Man, just stop and KIM"
In response to Reply # 36


  

          

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

  

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LA2Philly
Member since Oct 18th 2004
41249 posts
Tue Feb-17-15 02:32 PM

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31. "LOL, a specialist?"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

If you have a player who is THAT good at a certain skill-set, you can create an offense around it, even in today's NBA game. Not only is it effective but it sets up so many counter plays and if you have some additional talent, allows them to play off rotations the entire game...not to mention how absolutely tiring it is for anyone to play around those screens.

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

  

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cgonz00cc
Member since Aug 01st 2002
35272 posts
Tue Feb-17-15 05:22 PM

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41. "getting to your sweet spots by tirelessly running off picks counts IMO"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

To me that is creating your own shot

If it were so easy Reggie and Rip wouldnt be the only 2 names in this discussion

Either of those guys could get open whenever they wanted because they were masters of cutting

  

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LA2Philly
Member since Oct 18th 2004
41249 posts
Tue Feb-17-15 11:23 PM

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"and once the D cheats, you go to your counters"


  

          

You can run an entire offense off a player who is effective at coming off screens because it sets up everyone else as the defensive focuses on stopping that first option...and Reggie is one of the best ever at doing it

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

  

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LegacyNS
Member since Jan 16th 2004
38095 posts
Tue Feb-17-15 10:38 PM

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53. "http://funnyand.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Why-Doves-Cry.jpg"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

http://funnyand.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Why-Doves-Cry.jpg
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<---- 5....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dlgiritpmfo

=======================================

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
21925 posts
Tue Feb-17-15 01:16 PM

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7. "lulz"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

>I'm pretty sure Chris Mullen, Reggie Miller and Clyde Drexler
>wouldn't be stars in today's NBA.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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40thStreetBlack
Charter member
27116 posts
Tue Feb-17-15 01:28 PM

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8. "Drexler would be the second best shooting guard in the NBA right today"
In response to Reply # 0


          

so basically the same thing he was in the 90's.

___________________

Mar-A-Lago delenda est

  

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John Forte
Member since Feb 22nd 2013
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Tue Feb-17-15 01:36 PM

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11. "Ah, the positional designation sticking point"
In response to Reply # 8


          

SG/SF doesn't matter. Drexler was a top-3 wing when he played. He wouldn't be a top-5 wing today.

  

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40thStreetBlack
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Tue Feb-17-15 02:16 PM

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26. "LOL. point is he'd be an elite player"
In response to Reply # 11


          

>SG/SF doesn't matter. Drexler was a top-3 wing when he
>played. He wouldn't be a top-5 wing today.

he'd be right in the top 5 range. not sure what would lead you to believe otherwise.

___________________

Mar-A-Lago delenda est

  

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MothershipConnection
Member since Nov 22nd 2003
7498 posts
Tue Feb-17-15 01:37 PM

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12. "Perimeter players that couldn't shoot and big guy stiffs would suffer mo..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I feel Mullin and Reggie, both close to career 40% three point shooters, would do just fine in a league when you have even more free reign to launch from deep, it's the perimeter guys that can't shoot that would get killed. Outside of Wade, pretty much every other star perimeter guy is an at least competent 3 point shooter these days, so what would that do to a guy like Mark Jackson or Drexler or Rod Strickland?

The star centers of that day like Hakeem, Robinson, young Shaq, would all fucking dominate today especially since they were fast enough to hedge and run the floor (let alone their post games), but somehow guys like Jim McIlvaine and Jon Koncak and Greg Ostertag managed to get major run on actual good teams and I couldn't possibly see them surviving these days (though I guess you could consider them the Robin Lopez of their time).

The early 2000s probably fare the worst of all though, that's when you see dudes like the Davis brothers and Jamaal Magloire pop up on all star teams.

  

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John Forte
Member since Feb 22nd 2013
15361 posts
Tue Feb-17-15 01:44 PM

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13. "90s had the center position on lock"
In response to Reply # 12


          

  

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kayru99
Member since Jan 26th 2004
16105 posts
Wed Feb-18-15 09:02 AM

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75. "...no. Fuck no. 90s was the beginning of the end of the big men"
In response to Reply # 13


          

the 80s was the golden age of bigs

  

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COOLEHMAGAZINE
Member since May 22nd 2007
5563 posts
Tue Feb-17-15 01:45 PM

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14. "RE: Perimeter players that couldn't shoot and big guy stiffs would suffe..."
In response to Reply # 12


          

What's happening????


Drexler suddenly doesn't have a jumper in this bit of historical revisionist Quantum Leap series finale?


Man, I really wonder what Drexler did to make people so eager to try and relegate him to just being a "good player"

I'm from the lost black tribe of Israel, the Yos

http://coolehmag.com/frontEnd/

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
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16. "strick would be getting to the rack w/ ease today."
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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COOLEHMAGAZINE
Member since May 22nd 2007
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19. "RE: Perimeter players that couldn't shoot and big guy stiffs would suffe..."
In response to Reply # 12


          

Kendrick Perkinshas been playing on contenders for this whole era, seems like.

I'm from the lost black tribe of Israel, the Yos

http://coolehmag.com/frontEnd/

  

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auragin_boi
Member since Aug 01st 2003
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33. "Asik, Perkins, Robin Lopez, Larry Sanders, Bargnani, Haslem"
In response to Reply # 19
Tue Feb-17-15 02:58 PM by auragin_boi

  

          

Splitter, Dalembert...c'mon.

Half of these were starting C's on playoff teams.

____________

  

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FILF
Member since Jun 01st 2007
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120. "Splitter nutted on Dirk & put the clamps on a LMA in the 2014 postseason"
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

>Splitter, Dalembert...c'mon.
>
>Half of these were starting C's on playoff teams.

WHAT'S GOOD *****? What's REALLY good?!?!????!!! Ha HA!
http://40.media.tumblr.com/d8e2daf9f3f37244cd05436bcdf05973/tumblr_mt4qibKq4c1rgam01o1_1280.png

  

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MothershipConnection
Member since Nov 22nd 2003
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59. "Kendrick Perkins is inexplicable in any era"
In response to Reply # 19


  

          

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
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22. "drexler developed a competent 3 pt shot in his later career."
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

34% on about 5 attempts/game in his houston years.

that's comparable to lebron's and carmelo's career numbers. he'd be fine.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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MothershipConnection
Member since Nov 22nd 2003
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58. "And what would Melo shoot as 2nd fiddle to prime Hakeem?"
In response to Reply # 22


  

          

Considering Melo was a 40% three point shooter dragging JR Smith and Andrea Bargnani up and down the court.

I don't mean to denigrate Clyde though, I tend to think the stars would translate no matter what the era (the 2nd tier and role players would suffer much worse) and he'd be something similar to Wade, but he just came to mind as a guy who would have to adjust his game a bit more considering non-perimeter shooting wings used to dominate back in the day when it's not as common anymore.

  

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COOLEHMAGAZINE
Member since May 22nd 2007
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Tue Feb-17-15 11:23 PM

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61. "RE: And what would Melo shoot as 2nd fiddle to prime Hakeem?"
In response to Reply # 58


          

Clyde shot in 33% with bum ass Duckworth and hustle-man Buck Williams in the frontcourt on Portland.

I think he would be fine.

I'm from the lost black tribe of Israel, the Yos

http://coolehmag.com/frontEnd/

  

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John Forte
Member since Feb 22nd 2013
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85. "Those were the years with the shortened 3 point line"
In response to Reply # 22


          

he didn't become a better 3 pt shooter. They made the shot easier because niggas in that era couldn't shoot threes.

  

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COOLEHMAGAZINE
Member since May 22nd 2007
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89. "RE: Those were the years with the shortened 3 point line"
In response to Reply # 85


          

I was talking about the .337 he shot when he took the Blazers to the Finals against Jordan.

BEFORE the 3-point line was moved.


He also continued to shoot 3s at a healthy % AFTER the 3 point line was moved back


So, I have to disagree again.

I'm from the lost black tribe of Israel, the Yos

http://coolehmag.com/frontEnd/

  

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BSharp
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97. "Robin Lopez is a major contributor..."
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

...on his team. Check his numbers versus the guys you mentioned.

  

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MothershipConnection
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102. "I should have gone Kendrick Perkins"
In response to Reply # 97


  

          

I actually really like Robin Lopez and think he's significantly better than the numbers say... the Blazers would be much worse without him.

I'm really not in a mood to get into a debate whether Omer Asik is a better player than Olden Polynice but it's just disingenuous to imply that every 90s playoff team had a legitimately good big man when you can dig up any random 90s season and find guys like Chris Dudley and Andrew Lang starting on actual playoff teams. It's debatable whether or not those guys would make it in this NBA based off their individual skills... I'm pretty sure the stars would adjust their game enough to make it in any era but it's the role players that would fall by the wayside.

  

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COOLEHMAGAZINE
Member since May 22nd 2007
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15. "RE: NBA: 90s vs Now"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Clyde Drexler would be a superstar today, WTF? Drexler>>>Klay Thompson.

I'm from the lost black tribe of Israel, the Yos

http://coolehmag.com/frontEnd/

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
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18. "these ppl are nuts. they clearly didn't watch drexler."
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

dude was 25+ ppg, 7 rpg, 7 apg, 2 spg in his prime. but he wouldn't be a top wing today?

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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COOLEHMAGAZINE
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21. "RE: these ppl are nuts. they clearly didn't watch drexler."
In response to Reply # 18


          

He would be such a problem in a run and gun league with no hand checking.


I'm from the lost black tribe of Israel, the Yos

http://coolehmag.com/frontEnd/

  

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40thStreetBlack
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35. "but he wouldnt have the size &athleticism to compete w/NBA players today"
In response to Reply # 18


          

oh wait...

___________________

Mar-A-Lago delenda est

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
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43. "lulz"
In response to Reply # 35


  

          

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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LegacyNS
Member since Jan 16th 2004
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54. "neither would MJ or Kemp or Barkley or KJ or Glove, etc..."
In response to Reply # 35
Tue Feb-17-15 10:55 PM by LegacyNS

  

          

lol'd so hoard..

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<---- 5....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dlgiritpmfo

=======================================

  

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TheRealBillyOcean
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47. "Niggaz talking like Drexler would be Gary Neal or some shit."
In response to Reply # 15


          

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

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TheRealBillyOcean
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48. "Hersey Hawkins be at home with that ass big mustache.."
In response to Reply # 47


          

wishing he could be a Splash Brother.

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

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MothershipConnection
Member since Nov 22nd 2003
7498 posts
Tue Feb-17-15 11:21 PM

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60. "And the Splash Brothers would love a 22 foot 3 point line"
In response to Reply # 48


  

          

My god we might have 5 or 6 guys hitting over 50% from three if the line was 2 feet closer.

Hersey Hawkins was really before his time though, he's definitely comes to mind as a guy who be even better today - I'd also wanna see some of these playmaking tweener forwards like Mase (feel better!), Kukoc, Detlef play in today's game.

  

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COOLEHMAGAZINE
Member since May 22nd 2007
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17. "RE: NBA: 90s vs Now"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Put Reggie Miller in Korver's spot on the Hawks and they are going to the Eastern Conference Finals.


Reggie Miller's superstardom was also somewhat due to his outsized personality and antics, as well as being on a great team whose rivals were some of the leagues most visible players and teams.

I'm from the lost black tribe of Israel, the Yos

http://coolehmag.com/frontEnd/

  

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John Forte
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20. "This isn't a ringing endorsement"
In response to Reply # 17


          

>Put Reggie Miller in Korver's spot on the Hawks and they are
>going to the Eastern Conference Finals.


Since they're probably going there anyway, and Korver is the 4th option.

  

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COOLEHMAGAZINE
Member since May 22nd 2007
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Tue Feb-17-15 02:01 PM

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23. "RE: This isn't a ringing endorsement"
In response to Reply # 20


          

I don't know how you want to quantify it then but a guy like Drexler was significantly better than

Klay Thompson
Joe Johnson
Manu Ginobili

and better than

Carmelo Anthony
James Harden
Paul George



I'm from the lost black tribe of Israel, the Yos

http://coolehmag.com/frontEnd/

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
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24. "none of this is debatable."
In response to Reply # 23


  

          

>Drexler was significantly better than
>
>Klay Thompson
>Joe Johnson
>Manu Ginobili
>
>and better than
>
>Carmelo Anthony
>James Harden
>Paul George
>
>
>
>

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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John Forte
Member since Feb 22nd 2013
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70. "the 2nd half of that list is most certainly debatable."
In response to Reply # 24


          

  

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COOLEHMAGAZINE
Member since May 22nd 2007
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73. "RE: the 2nd half of that list is most certainly debatable."
In response to Reply # 70


          

In what universe is James Harden better than Drexler?

Drexler is better on ball defender by miles
Drexler is a better finisher around the hoop
Drexler is an equally capable ballhandler
Drexler is physically bigger
Drexler is easily the better athlete
Drexler is the better leader
Drexler is the more accomplished NCAA player
Drexler is far better rebounder


And I like James Harden.



Honest, forreal, forreal question: Did you watch Drexler play?

I'm from the lost black tribe of Israel, the Yos

http://coolehmag.com/frontEnd/

  

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bignick
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28. "Log off. Burn your computer. Rip out your internet. "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

>I'm pretty sure Chris Mullen, Reggie Miller and Clyde Drexler
>wouldn't be stars in today's NBA. The only modern star who I'm
>pretty sure wouldn't translate back to the 90s is Dwight.

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
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29. "the 90s wasn't that long ago."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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ne_atl
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34. "we're old"
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

___________________________________
http://instagram.com/mrellsberry

  

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John Forte
Member since Feb 22nd 2013
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37. "Penny's prime was 20 years ago"
In response to Reply # 29


          

  

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FILF
Member since Jun 01st 2007
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68. "Past-prime Clyde held his own against prime Penny in the Finals"
In response to Reply # 37


  

          

WHAT'S GOOD *****? What's REALLY good?!?!????!!! Ha HA!
http://40.media.tumblr.com/d8e2daf9f3f37244cd05436bcdf05973/tumblr_mt4qibKq4c1rgam01o1_1280.png

  

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Lach
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50. "I'm sayin"
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

  

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MothershipConnection
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57. "20 years was a long time ago"
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

Especially since everyone is talking about guys who peaked in the early-mid 90s (not guys who peaked in the late 90s like AI or Zo or something)... this is literally like people saying MJ wouldn't measure up to Oscar Robertson back in the day (who played 20 years before MJ).

  

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COOLEHMAGAZINE
Member since May 22nd 2007
5563 posts
Tue Feb-17-15 11:35 PM

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62. "RE: 20 years was a long time ago"
In response to Reply # 57


          

More like the premise of this post is, "Oscar Robertson would have been coming off the bench in Jordan's era"

I'm from the lost black tribe of Israel, the Yos

http://coolehmag.com/frontEnd/

  

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RexLongfellow
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Tue Feb-17-15 02:32 PM

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30. "Wow"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Just, wow
You realize those guys were all-stars when cats were allowed to play D right?

Those cats would FEAST on the new rules for D. Shit, there are guys that didn't make all-star games that would be balling these days (Rod Strickland, Derek Harper, prime Ron Harper, Horace Grant)

  

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Beezo
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52. "All of this"
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

>Just, wow
>You realize those guys were all-stars when cats were allowed
>to play D right?
>
>Those cats would FEAST on the new rules for D. Shit, there are
>guys that didn't make all-star games that would be balling
>these days (Rod Strickland, Derek Harper, prime Ron Harper,
>Horace Grant)

<---
Fuck a sig, my presence is enough.

  

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southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
90059 posts
Tue Feb-17-15 02:38 PM

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32. "naw but my perspective is changing on 80s players...."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

usually i'm unimpressed when i watch 70s/80s games on nba classics or archives*
i think you can take the stars from any modern era and they'd probably perform comparably now
it's the good but not great players you have to look at
like who are the mike conleys/jeff teague allstars of the 80s/90s?
could mo cheeks be a starting PG right today?
i'm sure he has some stats that say yes, but that's in the context of that era
based on a pure eye test i'm not so sure


*off top i didn't start watching bball until the 91 finals
so it's naan nostalgia in my assessment

~~~~~~

  

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Lach
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51. "Mike Conley is a starting pg today. Why couldn't Mo Cheeks be one?"
In response to Reply # 32


  

          

>could mo cheeks be a starting PG right today?

To me a good look at a guy like Rondo shows that a Mo Cheeks style player could thrive today.

  

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LegacyNS
Member since Jan 16th 2004
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56. "not to mention those same 80s players held Jordan in check until 1991"
In response to Reply # 51


  

          


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<---- 5....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dlgiritpmfo

=======================================

  

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John Forte
Member since Feb 22nd 2013
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71. "no the fuck they didn't. Jordan was putting up video game numbers"
In response to Reply # 56


          

  

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LegacyNS
Member since Jan 16th 2004
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72. "he's most remembered for what he did starting in 91"
In response to Reply # 71
Wed Feb-18-15 08:52 AM by LegacyNS

  

          

I'm talking about him winning...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<---- 5....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dlgiritpmfo

=======================================

  

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John Forte
Member since Feb 22nd 2013
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84. "so long as you admit you completely fabricated the part where anyone"
In response to Reply # 72


          

held Jordan in check. Jordan won when Pippen made the leap and Zeke got old.

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
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100. "yeah, other than phil knight nobody really kept jordan 'in check'"
In response to Reply # 84


  

          

(get it? 2 pacs)

in most of the playoff series jordan lost his first 6 seasons, he was
by far the best player, and the next 3 (sometimes 4) best players
were on the other team. i mean, scottie pippen REALLY sucked against
the pistons in 88 and 89. lolz. i don't think ppl really understand that.
he was okay in 90 but prolly the 6th best player in that series.

chicago's 2nd leading scorer in the 89 ECFs was craig hodges. 3rd was
bill cartwright. 2nd leading scorer in 88 playoffs was sam vincent. cmon.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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LegacyNS
Member since Jan 16th 2004
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106. "lol - there's nothing to admit.. "
In response to Reply # 84
Wed Feb-18-15 11:45 AM by LegacyNS

  

          

he didn't win titles until the Celtics/Pistons runs were over..
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<---- 5....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dlgiritpmfo

=======================================

  

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40thStreetBlack
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130. "Robert Horry >>>>> Karl Malone"
In response to Reply # 106


          

___________________

Mar-A-Lago delenda est

  

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FILF
Member since Jun 01st 2007
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Wed Feb-18-15 05:00 AM

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65. "Mo Cheeks would be Andre Miller except eons better on defense"
In response to Reply # 32


  

          

Rondo is an elite rebounding guard w/ a broken jump-shot which isn't what Cheeks was in his prime. Kyle Lowry sans the 3 point range ability would probably be a more accurate comparison as far as current all-stars in their primes.

WHAT'S GOOD *****? What's REALLY good?!?!????!!! Ha HA!
http://40.media.tumblr.com/d8e2daf9f3f37244cd05436bcdf05973/tumblr_mt4qibKq4c1rgam01o1_1280.png

  

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astralblak
Member since Apr 05th 2007
20029 posts
Tue Feb-17-15 05:04 PM

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38. "this didn't go like you planned huh JF"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

.

  

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Kungset
Member since Mar 29th 2004
6426 posts
Tue Feb-17-15 05:11 PM

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39. "Would Michael Jordan have starred in today's NBA?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

would he???

http://www.sbnation.com/2014/3/25/5542838/nba-rules-changes-lebron-james-michael-jordan

Ever notice the way point guards used to back their way down the court, using their wide posteriors as a way to shield off defenders? Ever notice how only 38-year-old Andre Miller ever does that anymore? It's because of hand-checking, which allowed defenders to stick their forearms into their man's chest to impede their progress towards the rim. With that kind of advantage, the best way to prevent defenders from poking at the ball was to make them hand-check the back.

Oh, sure, it technically wasn't allowed. The league tried outlawing the practice several times to no avail. In 1978 -- yes, 1978 -- the league said if hand-checking impeded a player's forward progress, it was to be prohibited using "rigid enforcement." That didn't work. After a particularly ugly Finals in 1994, the league tried again, outlawing all hand-checking that happened from the baseline to the opposing three-point line. That somewhat alleviated the problem, but the game was still as physical as ever in the frontcourt. It was only in 2004, when the league disallowed any arm contact on drives and added a new defensive three-second rule, that hand-checking was truly eradicated.

This is what Jordan faced every night. Nobody was quick enough to stay with him, so they clutched, grabbed and held to prevent him from getting to the basket. The Pistons started the practice, the Knicks continued it and countless other contenders copied it.

The hand-check gave a second life to so many slow perimeter players. Craig Ehlo would have been fried in this era unless he developed some lateral quickness, for example. But he ultimately was the man tasked with checking Jordan, and despite some memorable failures, he was better at it than most.

This is a world LeBron James never knew. At his size, James would have been physically imposing in any area, but he's especially difficult to contend with when he's able to get a full head of steam against a player who cannot hand-check. Hand-checking was a proactive defensive measure; without that tactic, defenders must react to James by sliding their feet to beat him to the spot. Tough to do when he can drive through any bit of contact that results from being late.

But keep in mind: this only applies to the man directly in front of Jordan or LeBron. While the changes here aid Jordan's case, the changes elsewhere do the opposite.

***

Five-man defensive schemes in the 90s were incredibly simple compared to today. The passage of time explains some of this: every industry is built on innovation, and innovation is built on fixing a problem with the common methods of the present. There would be no Tom Thibodeau without Chuck Daly; no Mike D'Antoni without the Showtime Lakers.

But the simplicity was also due to the existing rules, which penalized teams for, essentially, playing zone. If you wanted to double-team a player, you had to double-team a player. There was no digging down, no helping off non-shooters to pre-rotate to stop the bigger scoring threat. It was double-team or nothing. And while a few teams, such as George Karl's Sonics, would break the rules and dare officials to whistle for illegal defense, most abided by the regulations.

This made it especially easy to post up. Send your tallest man on the block, let him back down his single defender, and all he needs to do is pick out the teammate who the defense helped off to double-team. If no double-team, go to work. Consider the massive difference in these two screenshots:

The first is from a 1993 playoff game between the Nets and Cavaliers. New Jersey is so concerned with Brad Daugherty's ability to see over the defense and find the open man that they are single-covering him. Rumeal Robinson and Drazen Petrovic are sticking on their men, Chris Morris is sort of coming to help and Derrick Coleman has one foot outside the paint because he needs to stay within that length of Larry Nance. Daugherty hits a short turnaround on the play.

The second is from a March Rockets-Magic game. Dwight Howard has the ball in a similar spot, yet must deal with Arron Afflalo digging down from the top of the key, Jameer Nelson lingering in the lane instead of staying with Patrick Beverley and a third defender (he's hidden) in the paint thanks to Terrence Jones. Howard does well to get a layup opportunity, but misses it amid all the arms in the paint.

The difference is stark. Where Daugherty has clear sailing, Howard has to consider multiple defenders who could impede his path. You can see why teams posted up so much back in the day. Centers who weren't double-teamed scored over each other, and centers who were double-teamed could easily find the open man.

That had lasting implications. These days, coaches bench size in favor of speed and shooting. They accept defensive trade-offs because too many non-shooters makes it impossible to conduct a reasonable offense. In the 90s, though, teams had to actually defend every player on the court unless they sent a hard double-team. This allowed teams to play unskilled titans or defensive specialists who nevertheless had to be accounted for because the rules said so.

This occasionally was taken to the extreme. In the 1991 playoffs, Don Nelson would station his biggest player, whether it was journeyman Jim Petersen, youngster Tyrone Hill or the previously unknown Tom Tolbert, 30 feet from the hoop just to get David Robinson out of the lane. They weren't going to do anything productive from 15 feet, much less 30, but Robinson still had to come out and pretend like they could anyway. The Warriors posted up Mitch Richmond and Chris Mullin against smaller players, feasted on the driving lanes Tim Hardaway now had and upset the Spurs in four games.

In 2014, Robinson would have tiptoed the lane while essentially playing a one-man zone around the rim and Nelson would have been forced to choose between going small and getting lit up on the other end or leaving his big men in and suffering spacing consequences. In 1991, those centers were the unsung heroes by standing aimlessly well beyond the three-point line and doing nothing.

Place LeBron James in this world, and you can see how he'd be even more devastating. He'd have to fight harder to beat his own man, but once that happened, it wouldn't be hard to pick out open players. He averages nearly seven assists for his career; imagine how many he'd have if he could back someone down, draw a double-team and easily find the open man. Imagine how many points he'd get in the low post if he only had one man to beat each time. Jordan prolonged his career by learning how to back his man down and shoot over them when he realized no help was coming. The development of LeBron's post game would have come much faster if he didn't have to worry as much about reading that help.


Jordan has an entire side without any bodies immediately in his way. James, meanwhile, has all five Rockets' eyes on him as he begins his move. Which do you think is easier to score against?

***

So, which player would be better in the other's era? It's complicated. In real life, James would learn how to use his size and raw strength more effectively and Jordan would have learned how to rifle crosscourt passes to open three-point shooters while running the high pick-and-roll.

In this fantasy world? It's tough to say. Perhaps Jordan would have put up bigger numbers in the regular season against poor defenses, only to struggle against the quickness and length of tough, smart schemes in the playoffs. How would he fare against a team like the Pacers that would corral him in a mid-range pocket on a pick-and-roll? By contrast, perhaps LeBron would have averaged 13 assists a game, yet be stifled in the post by wider, slower defenders on teams that refused to double-team him. LeBron would not have enjoyed going up against Anthony Mason, that's for sure.

In other words, they were both great for their own specific eras. It's a boring answer, but it's also the right one.

  

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J_Stew
Member since Jul 06th 2002
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Tue Feb-17-15 05:52 PM

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44. "90s basketball was bad basketball, too physical"
In response to Reply # 0


          

80s basketball was like ballet by comparison. there were still hard, playoff fouls, but the allowed escalation of physicality in the bad boys era and through the 90s could have ended up killing the game if it had been allowed to continue. the more physical you allow the defense to be, the more it hurts the exceptionally talented players. obviously there is a happy medium, dudes are going to bang in the paint for position, but that perimeter hand checking was ridiculous.

Now, all the grabbiness they allow defenders to get away with while dudes are moving without the ball is pretty bad.

basketball is a contact sport, but it shouldnt be a collision sport, and people should be penalized for playing perimeter D like the seahawk secondary.

  

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TRENDone
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Tue Feb-17-15 06:51 PM

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45. "Kawhi Leonard would've killed it in the 90s"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

he's a throwback player. Curry/Klay/Draymond too.

____________________________________________________________________

San Diego State's holy trinity of sports:
Kawhi Leonard
Marshall Faulk
Tony Gwynn (RIP)

#Aztec4Life

  

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TheRealBillyOcean
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Tue Feb-17-15 09:17 PM

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46. "Kyle Korver, Jeff Teague, Dirk's corpse, Milsap, were just All Stars.."
In response to Reply # 0


          

but Clyde, Mullin, and Miller wouldn't be stars?

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

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LAbeathustla
Member since Jan 24th 2004
33858 posts
Tue Feb-17-15 09:51 PM

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49. "you dont know shit about clyde drexler"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

------------------------------------
2019 CABG Survivor

2016 OK Survivor Champion

be about it or be without it

RIP GOATs

  

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Vex_id
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Tue Feb-17-15 10:57 PM

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55. "Golden era - but there's always a tendency to romanticise past eras "
In response to Reply # 0


          

people who say that a dream team of Bron/Elmo/Bean/Durant/Paul & co. couldn't compete against the past greats are nuts.

-->

  

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MothershipConnection
Member since Nov 22nd 2003
7498 posts
Tue Feb-17-15 11:46 PM

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63. "Let's all agree to send Kyle Lowry and Al Jefferson to the 90s tho"
In response to Reply # 0
Tue Feb-17-15 11:46 PM by MothershipConnection

  

          

Considering that Lowry is built like Frank Gore and Al Jeff would kill it if you could back someone down for 10 seconds and not be able to pack the paint.

Just send back Dan Majerle (3 and D plus dunks!) and Anthony Mason (the ultimate Lebron stopper) and let's get it on.

  

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FILF
Member since Jun 01st 2007
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Wed Feb-18-15 02:18 AM

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64. "Hibbert/Pau/Dirk/Bosh would get abused in the paint in the 90s"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

-Bosh would get trucked in the post

-Dirk would obviously be a defensive liability in any era but his issue in the 90s would be not getting as many touch foul calls on his post-ups/drives & he would also be affect by hand-checking
(KD would also struggle if hand-checking was legal)

-Pau would be doing his trademark "I got fouled" howl on every post-up if he had to go up against the mid 90s Knicks frontline.
(Joakim/Tyson are also somewhat allergic to physicality so I'm not sure that they would be DPOYs in the 90s)

-Hibbert's soft ass would be Hasheem Thabeet status constantly getting Dejuan Blair'ed trying to box-out bammas in the paint: http://i.usatoday.net/sports/gallery/2009/02/16/s090216_thabeet-blairpg-vertical.jpg

On the other hand:

-Z-Bo/Big Al/Boogie/Monroe/Nene would be backing their way down to the restricted area ala Barkley on every other play w/o the 5 second rule.

-Kawhi/Jimmy/Tony Allen would be even better defenders if they were allowed to hand-check.

-Blair/Tristan/Zaza/Nurkic/Adams/Drummond wouldn't be sitting on the bench w/ foul troubles if they were allowed to throw their bodies around in the paint.

-Bledsoe/Lowry/Wes/Russy wouldn't have to worry so much about guards flopping when they post-up ala Marc Jackson.

-Draymond/David West/Taj would be giving out hard fouls when cats drive into the paint w/o the fear of picking up a flagrant foul.

WHAT'S GOOD *****? What's REALLY good?!?!????!!! Ha HA!
http://40.media.tumblr.com/d8e2daf9f3f37244cd05436bcdf05973/tumblr_mt4qibKq4c1rgam01o1_1280.png

  

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cgonz00cc
Member since Aug 01st 2002
35272 posts
Wed Feb-18-15 11:34 AM

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105. "there was no perimeter defender to guard Dirk in those days"
In response to Reply # 64


  

          

Maybe Rodman, maybe Anthony Mason

But Dirk's skillset is still extremely rare even as players have gotten longer. I actually think he would do extreme damage if you put him in his prime 20 years ago.

He would just shoot over ppl

  

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FILF
Member since Jun 01st 2007
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Wed Feb-18-15 03:25 PM

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110. "Dirk used to LIVE at the FT line b/c of touch fouls"
In response to Reply # 105
Wed Feb-18-15 03:28 PM by FILF

  

          

Mobile bigs/physical wing players are the ones that bother Dirk not necessarily size. Pippen, Rodman, McKey, Mason, Horry, Cliff Robinson & even prime Hakeem/Admiral had the foot speed to stay w/ Dirk on the perimeter.

One of the reasons why Dirk struggled in the 2007 postseason was b/c the refs were letting Stephen Jackson body Dirk up & didn't call the usual touch fouls Dirk gets in his favor when he gets bumped on a series of shot fakes. When Dirk tried to drive Jackson had the foot speed to cut him off & send him towards a help defender. The same thing happened in the 2006 Finals vs. Haslem.

WHAT'S GOOD *****? What's REALLY good?!?!????!!! Ha HA!
http://40.media.tumblr.com/d8e2daf9f3f37244cd05436bcdf05973/tumblr_mt4qibKq4c1rgam01o1_1280.png

  

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cgonz00cc
Member since Aug 01st 2002
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Wed Feb-18-15 04:05 PM

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113. "cool"
In response to Reply # 110


  

          

  

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-DJ R-Tistic-
Member since Nov 06th 2008
51986 posts
Wed Feb-18-15 05:14 AM

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67. "James Harden woulda been 2nd best SG in the game in 92-95"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Dwight woulda been #6-#8 Center in the 90's. He woulda been a bit better than Brad Daugherty, but not touching Robinson, Ewing, Hakeem, Shaq, arguably close to Zo.

Drexler would be Top 3 SG today for sure, maybe even #2 behind Harden.

Stockton wouldn't have been AS dominant on a different team in the 90's...so depending on his team now, he'd still be an All Star, but not a clear cut choice every year as he was back then. He was tougher and a bit smarter than many current PG's, but I feel this is a PG golden age, and he wouldn't stand out as much now.

------------------------------

50+ FREE Mixes on www.DJR-Tistic.com!

Twitter and Instagram - @DJ_RTistic

  

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FILF
Member since Jun 01st 2007
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Wed Feb-18-15 05:24 AM

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69. "John Starks wept / Mark Price would have eaten in todays NBA"
In response to Reply # 67


  

          

WHAT'S GOOD *****? What's REALLY good?!?!????!!! Ha HA!
http://40.media.tumblr.com/d8e2daf9f3f37244cd05436bcdf05973/tumblr_mt4qibKq4c1rgam01o1_1280.png

  

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COOLEHMAGAZINE
Member since May 22nd 2007
5563 posts
Wed Feb-18-15 09:01 AM

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74. "RE: James Harden woulda been 2nd best SG in the game in 92-95"
In response to Reply # 67


          

Brad Daugherty was better than Dwight.

But before we get into that...how exactly is James Harden better than Clyde Drexler? At what?

I'm from the lost black tribe of Israel, the Yos

http://coolehmag.com/frontEnd/

  

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kayru99
Member since Jan 26th 2004
16105 posts
Wed Feb-18-15 09:09 AM

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76. "RE: James Harden woulda been 2nd best SG in the game in 92-95"
In response to Reply # 74


          

>Brad Daugherty was better than Dwight.

By a country mile, too. Dwight is essentially Kevin Willis 2.0

  

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COOLEHMAGAZINE
Member since May 22nd 2007
5563 posts
Wed Feb-18-15 09:18 AM

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77. "RE: James Harden woulda been 2nd best SG in the game in 92-95"
In response to Reply # 76


          

>>Brad Daugherty was better than Dwight.
>
>By a country mile, too. Dwight is essentially Kevin Willis
>2.0

I mean, if Harden and Dwight were as good as Drexler and healthy Daugherty, the Rockets would not have gotten dusted off by the Blazers last year.


Drexler had championship quality teams where he was FAR AND AWAY the best player on the roster in Portland.

Harden isn't even far-and-away the best player on his current non-championship contender.


And I say this as a Harden fan.

I'm from the lost black tribe of Israel, the Yos

http://coolehmag.com/frontEnd/

  

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kayru99
Member since Jan 26th 2004
16105 posts
Wed Feb-18-15 09:23 AM

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81. "you know what else is amazing about modern ball?"
In response to Reply # 77


          

there's almost no 2way players anymore. I LOVE harden's offensive game. He gives not a single damn about defense, and everybody is cool with it.

Even 90s stars who weren't good at one on one d, tried to compensate with off ball play. Dudes now just don't care.

And 80s ball was LIGHT YEARS better than 90s

  

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southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
90059 posts
Wed Feb-18-15 09:20 AM

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78. "OOO"
In response to Reply # 76


  

          

> Dwight is essentially Kevin Willis
>2.0


and i don't even like dwight but cmon
a HEALTHY dwight is probably better than moses malone, mchale, parish, etc

~~~~~~

  

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COOLEHMAGAZINE
Member since May 22nd 2007
5563 posts
Wed Feb-18-15 09:21 AM

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79. "RE: OOO"
In response to Reply # 78


          

>> Dwight is essentially Kevin Willis
>>2.0
>
>
>and i don't even like dwight but cmon
>a HEALTHY dwight is probably better than moses malone, mchale,
>parish, etc


LOL absolutely not.

I'm from the lost black tribe of Israel, the Yos

http://coolehmag.com/frontEnd/

  

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southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
90059 posts
Wed Feb-18-15 09:28 AM

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83. "yall really be on that janet jackson"
In response to Reply # 79


  

          

orlando finals dwight who could give you 40 and 20 on any given night is not better than kevin willis or robert parish?
k

~~~~~~

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
21925 posts
Wed Feb-18-15 10:33 AM

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96. "or one night."
In response to Reply # 83


  

          

>orlando finals dwight who could give you 40 and 20 on any given night

http://bkref.com/tiny/ZccBc

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
90059 posts
Wed Feb-18-15 10:46 AM

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98. "captain literal query over here"
In response to Reply # 96


  

          

FOH nigga ran to bbal reference like GOTCHA
smh

~~~~~~

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
21925 posts
Wed Feb-18-15 10:56 AM

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101. "wrong and mad."
In response to Reply # 98


  

          

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
90059 posts
Wed Feb-18-15 11:11 AM

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103. "naw that was pretty tokpr"
In response to Reply # 101


  

          

not mad

~~~~~~

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
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Wed Feb-18-15 11:12 AM

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104. "lolz"
In response to Reply # 103
Wed Feb-18-15 11:17 AM by dula dibiasi

  

          

word.

yeah man, that shit was petty. my bad.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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kayru99
Member since Jan 26th 2004
16105 posts
Wed Feb-18-15 09:33 AM

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86. "FUCK no he's not "
In response to Reply # 78


          

and I LIKE dwight, a lot.

he has no low post offense.

Malone's an all time great. He would destroy dwight, cuz his lateral movement ain't good enough to stay in front of him.

Mchale/Parrish is closer...Parrish is closer to Dwight all around, but Mchale was MUCH better that Dwight on offense. MUCH.

So nah. Dwight got more potential than all of them, but skill..? NOPE

  

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southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
90059 posts
Wed Feb-18-15 09:38 AM

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88. "potential? howard is 30 with a bad back"
In response to Reply # 86


  

          

we talking about what we already know he could do if healthy and in his prime
dude went 20 and 14 with no post moves and his rim protection shits on all those guys
lol @ slow ass parish or mchale handling dwight in his prime
corny ass niggas could barely handle a 40 yr old kareem
just stop

~~~~~~

  

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COOLEHMAGAZINE
Member since May 22nd 2007
5563 posts
Wed Feb-18-15 09:47 AM

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90. "RE: potential? howard is 30 with a bad back"
In response to Reply # 88


          

>we talking about what we already know he could do if healthy
>and in his prime
>dude went 20 and 14 with no post moves and his rim protection
>shits on all those guys
>lol @ slow ass parish or mchale handling dwight in his prime
>corny ass niggas could barely handle a 40 yr old kareem
>just stop

Mchale and Parish might have struggled against the athleticism of prime Dwight, but he would have had his own problems with their offensive ability and basketball IQ.

Meanwhile, Kevin Willis on prime Dwight is a matchup I would not have been mad at. Dwight didn't face a lot of guys like Kevin Willis or Mutumbo in this era.

I'm from the lost black tribe of Israel, the Yos

http://coolehmag.com/frontEnd/

  

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kayru99
Member since Jan 26th 2004
16105 posts
Wed Feb-18-15 09:54 AM

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91. "dwight played in an NBA with maybe 3 or 4 centers in it"
In response to Reply # 88


          

for his whole career.

By virtue of simple athleticism, alone, he should be able to get that, especially in a league filled with BUM-ASS bigs who don't play D.

If he had been coached/learned some skill, he'd have been an all-time great.

He's better than Kevin Willis (hence the 2.0 part), but he's a very, very similar type player

  

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John Forte
Member since Feb 22nd 2013
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Wed Feb-18-15 09:35 AM

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87. "Dwight isn't close to any of those dudes"
In response to Reply # 78


          

  

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dula dibiasi
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92. "yeah, that shit was dumb."
In response to Reply # 78


  

          

>> Dwight is essentially Kevin Willis 2.0

but so is this

>a HEALTHY dwight is probably better than moses malone

lmao. wtf bruh.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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John Forte
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93. "Moses = most underrated of all time"
In response to Reply # 92


          

although I admittedly didn't watch a minute of his prime

  

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dula dibiasi
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112. "agreed."
In response to Reply # 93


  

          

when people talk about the great centers, his name is routinely omitted. that should NEVER happen.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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FILF
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121. "Oh so y'all missed this poAst:-->"
In response to Reply # 93


  

          

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=8&topic_id=2398785&mesg_id=2398785&listing_type=search

WHAT'S GOOD *****? What's REALLY good?!?!????!!! Ha HA!
http://40.media.tumblr.com/d8e2daf9f3f37244cd05436bcdf05973/tumblr_mt4qibKq4c1rgam01o1_1280.png

  

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BSharp
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99. "RE: OOO"
In response to Reply # 78


  

          


>a HEALTHY dwight is probably better than moses malone, mchale,
>parish, etc

also better than Wilt, Jordan, Magic, Oscar Robertson, Cousy, Pistol Pete

  

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FILF
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122. "Dwight is a more athletic version Alonzo Mourning"
In response to Reply # 78


  

          

Orlando Dwight very comparable to 98-00 Zo when he finished 2nd/3rd in MVP voting & won back-to-back DPOY awards. They both are also RELATIVELY undersized centers who were yoked to the core & most likely had their primes end prematurely while they were at the peak of their primes.

WHAT'S GOOD *****? What's REALLY good?!?!????!!! Ha HA!
http://40.media.tumblr.com/d8e2daf9f3f37244cd05436bcdf05973/tumblr_mt4qibKq4c1rgam01o1_1280.png

  

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John Forte
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125. "Dwight has 12% of Zo's fire and toughness"
In response to Reply # 122


          

  

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FILF
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133. "That falls under the "intangibles" category which is negligible "
In response to Reply # 125


  

          

WHAT'S GOOD *****? What's REALLY good?!?!????!!! Ha HA!
http://40.media.tumblr.com/d8e2daf9f3f37244cd05436bcdf05973/tumblr_mt4qibKq4c1rgam01o1_1280.png

  

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40thStreetBlack
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128. "stop making player comparisons"
In response to Reply # 122


          

you're terrible at it.

___________________

Mar-A-Lago delenda est

  

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dula dibiasi
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129. "lmao"
In response to Reply # 128


  

          

>you're terrible at it.
>

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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FILF
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132. "As long as it makes you IRRATIONALLY MAD I'll keep doing it"
In response to Reply # 128
Fri Feb-20-15 11:30 PM by FILF

  

          

All you have to offer is BITTER remarks..... maybe you should think about constructing rebuttals relevant to the topic being discussed & break down for us where you disagree rather than making bitch-made comments b/c your ego is hurt.

WHAT'S GOOD *****? What's REALLY good?!?!????!!! Ha HA!
http://40.media.tumblr.com/d8e2daf9f3f37244cd05436bcdf05973/tumblr_mt4qibKq4c1rgam01o1_1280.png

  

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-DJ R-Tistic-
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109. "Read what I said. 92-95 Drexler, not 80's Drexler"
In response to Reply # 74


  

          

Basically Post-Finals Drexler. You telling me Harden as of today isn't better than him at that point?

------------------------------

50+ FREE Mixes on www.DJR-Tistic.com!

Twitter and Instagram - @DJ_RTistic

  

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COOLEHMAGAZINE
Member since May 22nd 2007
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111. "RE: Read what I said. 92-95 Drexler, not 80's Drexler"
In response to Reply # 109


          

>Basically Post-Finals Drexler. You telling me Harden as of
>today isn't better than him at that point?
>

So we have to start the minute Drexler loses the Finals?

Cause at the beginning of the next season I would still have taken Drexler over Harden.

I also would have taken prime KJ over Harden.

I'm from the lost black tribe of Israel, the Yos

http://coolehmag.com/frontEnd/

  

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-DJ R-Tistic-
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115. "Lmao man y'all are so literal, shit!!!!!"
In response to Reply # 111


  

          

And KJ was a PG

------------------------------

50+ FREE Mixes on www.DJR-Tistic.com!

Twitter and Instagram - @DJ_RTistic

  

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RexLongfellow
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107. "Harden's Better Than Drexler Now?"
In response to Reply # 67


  

          

Wow
Is Harden even better than Steve Smith? Latrell Sprewell?

  

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-DJ R-Tistic-
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108. "Harden TODAY and 92-95 Drexler....y'all are ignoring that part. "
In response to Reply # 107


  

          

91-92 Drexler was vicious, but he was already 30 at that point. 80's Drexler was better for sure.

------------------------------

50+ FREE Mixes on www.DJR-Tistic.com!

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FILF
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124. "Sprewell was 1st team All-NBA during that period so you are right"
In response to Reply # 108
Wed Feb-18-15 10:50 PM by FILF

  

          

Spree was a legit 2 way player but he was closer to Jimmy than Harden.

WHAT'S GOOD *****? What's REALLY good?!?!????!!! Ha HA!
http://40.media.tumblr.com/d8e2daf9f3f37244cd05436bcdf05973/tumblr_mt4qibKq4c1rgam01o1_1280.png

  

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bshelly
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80. "everything that happened in my childhood is better than everything today"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God

  

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Cenario
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82. "ya'll should be required to post your age in some of these posts."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

  

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gmltheone
Member since Jun 11th 2003
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95. "Scouting is hard work..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Please don't try it at home.


----------------------------
Same as it ever was!

  

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My_SP1200_Broken_Again
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114. "EWING would clean the fuck up in 2014..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

....he'd probably become a 3 point threat as well



< Live Mixshow - Thurs 11PM/EST >
https://twitch.tv/djchiefone

----Mixtape Archives-----
https://soundcloud.com/djchiefone

  

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dula dibiasi
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116. "that's actually an important point"
In response to Reply # 114


  

          

and one that's rarely broached in these discussions.

when the 3 pt line was introduced in the 79-80 season, most
coaches and players figured it was a gimmick that wouldn't last.
it took a while to really be embraced, to the point where guys
were coaching it and practicing it extensively.

for the first decade or so, it wasn't emphasized or utilized much.
even the guys from that era who we think of as prolific 3pt
shooters weren't taking more than 2 or 3 a game.

http://bkref.com/tiny/SCfde

contrast that w/ nowadays:

http://bkref.com/tiny/Ra4lD

everyone now is coached on that shot from the age of 12, even
bigs. so when you look up a lot of the guards from that era, see
their 3pt percentages, and say zeke or drexler or jordan or magic
couldn't shoot 3s. well yeah, dude. they were only taking 1 a game
and weren't really practicing it. if they'd come along 20 yrs
later that obv wouldn't have been the case.

another example of why i'm always railing against comparing guys
across eras. what's to say a guy like russell in today's league
doesn't develop a sick elbow jumper, that he's been coached to
shoot since AAU? bigs in the 60s just weren't asked to do those things.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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MothershipConnection
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117. "Doesn't this work both ways too?"
In response to Reply # 116
Wed Feb-18-15 06:19 PM by MothershipConnection

  

          

It's definitely true it took a while for teams to adapt to the three pointer and if the past guys came up today they'd definitely practice and shoot them more, plus current guys benefit from actually watching all the past greats and learning their moves. It just seems silly to me to see people claim things the other way too like Lebron wouldn't be able to score if you could hand check and play 90s defense - motherfucker is literally the size of Karl Malone and has the handles of a guard, I'm pretty sure he woulda learned to run through a hand check if he came up 20 years earlier. Plus could you imagine Lebron getting to play defense like that? Or guys like Alridge or Bosh who are the size of past centers and have actual decent post games but never break it out cause the way teams play these days, if they came up 20 years earlier and you told them to get their ass on the block 20 times a game, I'm sure they'd adapt.

Pretty sure the greats in any era would be just fine, it's just a matter of degrees they'd have to adapt.

  

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dula dibiasi
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Wed Feb-18-15 06:42 PM

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118. "absolutely agree w/ all that."
In response to Reply # 117


  

          

>It's definitely true it took a while for teams to adapt to
>the three pointer and if the past guys came up today they'd
>definitely practice and shoot them more, plus current guys
>benefit from actually watching all the past greats and
>learning their moves. It just seems silly to me to see people
>claim things the other way too like Lebron wouldn't be able to
>score if you could hand check and play 90s defense -
>motherfucker is literally the size of Karl Malone and has the
>handles of a guard, I'm pretty sure he woulda learned to run
>through a hand check if he came up 20 years earlier. Plus
>could you imagine Lebron getting to play defense like that? Or
>guys like Alridge or Bosh who are the size of past centers and
>have actual decent post games but never break it out cause the
>way teams play these days, if they came up 20 years earlier
>and you told them to get their ass on the block 20 times a
>game, I'm sure they'd adapt.
>
>Pretty sure the greats in any era would be just fine, it's
>just a matter of degrees they'd have to adapt.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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LA2Philly
Member since Oct 18th 2004
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Wed Feb-18-15 06:48 PM

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119. "Exactly, this is why so many cross-gen debates are pointless imo"
In response to Reply # 117
Wed Feb-18-15 06:50 PM by LA2Philly

  

          

The development of players doesn't exist in a vacuum, players (shit, humans) are molded by whatever context and environment they are a part of. You can't take a player from 20 years ago and stick him 20 years later and think it's reasonable. Add in nutritional and exercise sciences...so many variables that can't be accounted for.

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

  

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John Forte
Member since Feb 22nd 2013
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Thu Feb-19-15 12:18 PM

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126. "What about "he had a broke jumper and suspect handle""
In response to Reply # 119


          

For all the talk about declining fundamental skills, there were far more players in the 80s and 90s who couldn't shoot or dribble.

  

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FILF
Member since Jun 01st 2007
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123. "Sam Perkins would have gotten paid!"
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Feb-18-15 10:47 PM by FILF

  

          

Stretch 4 mullah

WHAT'S GOOD *****? What's REALLY good?!?!????!!! Ha HA!
http://40.media.tumblr.com/d8e2daf9f3f37244cd05436bcdf05973/tumblr_mt4qibKq4c1rgam01o1_1280.png

  

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40thStreetBlack
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127. "Paul Pierce and Klay Thompson are/were stars in today's NBA"
In response to Reply # 0


          

so why wouldn't Mullin and Miller be stars today?

(I think everyone's addressed the Drexler thing already)

___________________

Mar-A-Lago delenda est

  

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SirLau
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Fri Feb-20-15 10:53 PM

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131. "RE: Paul Pierce and Klay Thompson are/were stars in today's NBA"
In response to Reply # 127


  

          

>so why wouldn't Mullin and Miller be stars today?
>
>(I think everyone's addressed the Drexler thing already)
>

I'm assuming due to lack of athleticism. Pierce =better athlete than Mullin, Klay = better athlete than Reggie.

  

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