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Subject: "Wrestling Post: TLC to Royal Rumble" Previous topic | Next topic
KCPlayer21
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30076 posts
Sun Dec-14-14 08:07 PM

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"Wrestling Post: TLC to Royal Rumble"
Sun Dec-14-14 08:12 PM by KCPlayer21

  

          

because I got a feeling we may need a new post after this PPV.....


Tonights Card

Dolph Ziggler vs. Luke Harper in a Ladder Match for the Intercontinental Championship

The Usos vs. The Miz and Damien Mizdow for the WWE Tag Team Championships

Kane vs. Ryback in a Chairs Match

AJ Lee vs. Nikki Bella for the WWE Divas Championship

Erick Rowan vs. The Big Show in a Steel Stairs Match

Jack Swagger vs. Rusev for the United States Championship

Bray Wyatt vs. Dean Ambrose in a Tables Ladders Chairs Match

John Cena vs. Seth Rollins in a Tables Match



We the children of the Light, you know what I mean?
That's why I'm hating on the darkness like Paula Deen
Cause in my hood they masked up like it's Halloween
We going hard for the Rock, but we not some fiends
- Andy Mineo

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
boooo @ the "doctors" coming out
Dec 14th 2014
1
Decent starting match, glad Ziggler has the strap back.....
Dec 14th 2014
2
This stairs match gotta be one of the dumbest ideas
Dec 14th 2014
3
adding the big slow did it no favors either.
Dec 14th 2014
4
Wow, just knew Cena/Rollins was gonna be the main event.....
Dec 14th 2014
5
man cena never sells. he just plays possum.
Dec 14th 2014
6
ugh cena matches always devolve into absolute clusterfucks
Dec 14th 2014
7
I was really hoping they wouldnt give him the win.....
Dec 14th 2014
8
Can they at least add Seth into the match at Rumble?
Dec 14th 2014
9
"I'm the first one to declare at the Royal Rumble match." (c) Reigns
Dec 14th 2014
10
Maybe the laptop will do it for us...
Dec 14th 2014
12
That's the thing I never understood regarding Brock's build...
Dec 17th 2014
28
      Thing is we all know what we get at Mania
Dec 17th 2014
29
Kane/Ryback and Rowan/Show have been the two worst matches tonight.....
Dec 14th 2014
11
God I hate Rusev.....
Dec 14th 2014
13
if Vince was smart.....
Dec 14th 2014
14
Comment from my 9 year old.....
Dec 14th 2014
15
He's already outgrowing the PG era
Dec 14th 2014
16
young smark in training.
Dec 14th 2014
17
      Lil dude cracks me up....
Dec 14th 2014
18
is it me or do these announcer tables not collapse like they used to
Dec 14th 2014
19
its not just you my friend!
Dec 16th 2014
23
This Cleveland crowd is trying too hard, doing all these NXT chants....
Dec 14th 2014
20
even Russo scoffs at the malfunctioning TV ending
Dec 14th 2014
21
RE: even Russo scoffs at the malfunctioning TV ending
Dec 15th 2014
22
      I actually love the patience with Rollins
Dec 16th 2014
24
           Dolph held his for like 9 months
Dec 16th 2014
25
                Youre right, he just lost it so fast I forgot
Dec 16th 2014
26
Whoa. Glad I didn't bother with Raw last night. (Torch swipe)
Dec 16th 2014
27
It's not even that it's bad.
Dec 17th 2014
30
so I went to the NXT Takeover in person ...
Dec 17th 2014
31
So…Dolph/Rollins are clearly the best choice WM main event
Dec 17th 2014
32
Cesaro too
Dec 17th 2014
33
RE: So…Dolph/Rollins are clearly the best choice WM main event
Dec 23rd 2014
34
RE: i wanna all three shield members in 3way for title
Dec 25th 2014
41
Raw boasted a couple of amazing matches...
Dec 23rd 2014
35
Yeah but do we really care to see Rollins/Cena for the 3rd time in 8 nig...
Dec 23rd 2014
36
      will Ambrose ever win a big match?
Dec 23rd 2014
37
           He beat Cena in that whatever-on-a-pole match
Dec 23rd 2014
38
I thought I'd never say this but...
Dec 23rd 2014
39
RE: orton is the most consistent/polished not named cena
Dec 25th 2014
42
RE: what should happen in Royal Rumble, leading to WM
Dec 25th 2014
40
This like most fantasy booking is cool, but we all know it has 0% shot
Dec 25th 2014
43
RE: gotta pull the trigger on mitb cashin pre-wm
Dec 25th 2014
44
He has til June or July, a cash in vs Reigns makes sense
Dec 26th 2014
46
I wouldn't think Bryan has a chance of usurping Reigns at all.
Dec 27th 2014
47
      Probably not, just the only possible guy I think
Dec 27th 2014
48
No solo for Brock?
Dec 25th 2014
45
      The best match they can make RIGHT TODAY is Ziggler/Lesnar
Dec 27th 2014
49
           Would be great but they clearly don't have that faith in Ziggler
Dec 27th 2014
50
                Plus, have Ziggs do what Cena couldn't? THAT aint happening.
Dec 28th 2014
51
The most realistic summary about Reigns having to win at WM from Reddit
Dec 28th 2014
52
I mean, yeah. It started earlier than that really
Dec 28th 2014
53
I don't know breaking the record had to lead to this
Dec 28th 2014
54
RE: reigns is the guy. sure
Dec 28th 2014
55
the only hope is if the crowd completely turn on him
Dec 28th 2014
56
Oh shit Bryan in the Rumble...there's a chance of something
Dec 29th 2014
57
just give us Bryan/Lesnar or Bryan/Cena at Mania
Dec 29th 2014
58
LOL we literally had this same conversation at this time last year
Dec 29th 2014
60
      haha, yup very similar
Dec 29th 2014
61
           Theres no CM Punk to quit on the Raw after Rumble...
Dec 30th 2014
65
I still feel like Reigns wins, but Bryan adds a lot of X factors
Dec 29th 2014
59
Dude had me doing the Yes chants from my couch
Dec 30th 2014
63
RE: watch dBryan get eliminated by kane
Dec 30th 2014
72
I'd bet money he doesn't wind up in the rumble.
Dec 30th 2014
73
      He's too far removed from that storyline now
Dec 30th 2014
74
           I think you forget: this is WWE.
Dec 30th 2014
76
from what I'm reading, tonight's raw looks like a fantastic show.
Dec 29th 2014
62
Seth Rollins is the best thing going right now
Dec 30th 2014
64
Daniel should have been a surprise RR entrant. WWE dropped the ball
Dec 30th 2014
66
surprise entrants don't get network buys.
Dec 30th 2014
68
They needed the good news to change the momentum...
Dec 30th 2014
70
This is a terrible idea
Dec 30th 2014
71
      http://youtu.be/VRDSBbu_OYg
Dec 31st 2014
77
           Those situations are not comparable
Dec 31st 2014
79
                they are identical
Jan 05th 2015
100
                     If DB is 200% guaranteed to win the Rumble and belt at Mania, then yes
Jan 05th 2015
101
that last segment was AWFUL. I guess Christian rolled out
Dec 30th 2014
67
Awful fo sho...
Dec 31st 2014
78
so 6 months later reigns remembers rollins turned on him
Dec 30th 2014
69
RE: db or reigns or db wins and seth cashes in
Dec 30th 2014
75
I'm excited about 2015...
Dec 31st 2014
80
RE: very talented roster
Dec 31st 2014
81
LOL this post is literally turning into last year's December post
Dec 31st 2014
83
hey at least april was good.
Dec 31st 2014
84
It couldn't have been all that bad though...
Jan 02nd 2015
85
      Almost none of the guys we were excited about are better off
Jan 02nd 2015
86
           Bray and Cesaro are fucked. Lets be real.
Jan 02nd 2015
87
           The treatment of those two is absolutely mind-boggling
Jan 02nd 2015
90
                it's troubling.
Jan 05th 2015
104
           I can respect that you think 2014 may have been lackluster...
Jan 02nd 2015
89
It starts from the top, right?
Jan 04th 2015
94
      The misuse of champ Lesnar has been a huge problem
Jan 04th 2015
97
Anyone excited for Wrestle Kingdom 9?
Dec 31st 2014
82
I might order it.
Jan 02nd 2015
88
Can't wait, this event is a perfect storm of everything great in Pro Wre...
Jan 03rd 2015
92
Its ordered!
Jan 04th 2015
93
Damn good show (mild SPOILERS review)
Jan 04th 2015
95
mo spoilers and thoughts...
Jan 04th 2015
98
      LOVED THE FOLLOWING:
Jan 05th 2015
99
           Kota is responsible for one of my most favorite sequences.
Jan 13th 2015
149
I ordered
Jan 04th 2015
96
      as did I and it was hard...
Jan 05th 2015
102
           ya boy Booker T filling in for King tonight...
Jan 05th 2015
103
They should give Cesaro and Kidd the Power & Glory moniker
Jan 03rd 2015
91
I liked what they had them tonight
Jan 06th 2015
106
RE: cena pins brock, brock f5s/detroy cena, seth cash in ?
Jan 06th 2015
105
Rollins can't go into Mania as champ to fight Reigns or Bryan
Jan 06th 2015
108
Agreed, but that's exactly why he needs to stop bringing in retirees
Jan 06th 2015
111
      Yup agreed 100%
Jan 06th 2015
118
It gives them some interesting options, I'll say that.
Jan 06th 2015
109
JBL's announcing hit an all time low last night
Jan 06th 2015
107
They’ve booked The Ascension terribly.
Jan 06th 2015
110
They don't employ any bookers.
Jan 06th 2015
113
No shit.
Jan 06th 2015
115
What was even worse is they gave them weeks of vignette promos
Jan 06th 2015
122
      Nah, the shit with Kidd is working. Even the Rosebuds shit.
Jan 07th 2015
123
           It's working despite the plan, not because of the plan
Jan 07th 2015
124
           Working is working. I don't think the "clear purpose" was to bury him
Jan 07th 2015
125
           The shit with Kidd is "working." Cesaro SHOULD have been massive
Jan 13th 2015
150
right? what the hell was that?
Jan 06th 2015
112
they do almost nothing right
Jan 06th 2015
114
Perhaps setting up a Ascension/APA fued?
Jan 06th 2015
120
      Nope, JBL is just a shitty announcer
Jan 06th 2015
121
RE: if the writing was a little more 'layered'
Jan 06th 2015
116
Orton is injured but yea you're right
Jan 06th 2015
117
      RE: i think they trying to figure it out
Jan 06th 2015
119
So, about the mammoth Brock build...?
Jan 07th 2015
126
No. This entire run is pretty much garbage. He's added nothing.
Jan 07th 2015
127
Batistas return was successful, but it took the backlash to get there
Jan 08th 2015
128
      I dunno why you insist on trying to "educate me" on shit we al...
Jan 08th 2015
129
           Damn man I was agreeing with you, why are you so combative?
Jan 08th 2015
130
                Shit, long day I guess. My bad.
Jan 08th 2015
131
it's a success for him/the title's prestige and a failure for the produc...
Jan 08th 2015
132
      RE: it's a success for him/the title's prestige and a failure for the pr...
Jan 09th 2015
133
      If the loss to Brock had actually changed Cena
Jan 09th 2015
135
      Biggest issues last few months: Nothing changed or progressed
Jan 09th 2015
137
      I don't care if Brock only shows up for the big four (and the builds the...
Jan 13th 2015
147
      BOOM, exactly dude!!
Jan 09th 2015
140
      i was definitely in favor of unifying the titles
Jan 09th 2015
143
      Did it help the title's prestige?
Jan 09th 2015
134
           There was this weird gap where Heyman wasn't on TV
Jan 09th 2015
136
           Right, the idea of what could have been is great
Jan 09th 2015
138
                I'm coming round to the idea of Lesnar's monster build...
Jan 09th 2015
139
                     If Reigns is the guy to beat Lesnar, it won't work
Jan 09th 2015
141
                     Brock needed to beat more people
Jan 09th 2015
142
           I meant more that contendership seems impossible
Jan 09th 2015
144
                Yea, the storyline was missing title defenses though
Jan 09th 2015
145
Lemme know when WWE gets to their "we actually care about the product" s...
Jan 13th 2015
146
Stroud made a great point about Ambrose and Reigns
Jan 13th 2015
148
Reigns would likely cut better promos if they stop scripting them.
Jan 13th 2015
151
I just hope...
Jan 13th 2015
152
Anyone hear Austin's latest podcast with Heyman?
Jan 14th 2015
153
Did anyone else catch the Aztec Warfare ep of Lucha Underground?
Jan 14th 2015
154
Why does the WWE hate the Ascension?
Jan 14th 2015
155
"I gotta put these guys over . . ." Book, being the best possible announ...
Jan 14th 2015
156
making them super hateable heels..even the heels, hate them
Jan 14th 2015
157
RE: hurry up & give the belt to heel seth please
Jan 14th 2015
158
Seth makes me feel like Brock and Cena are in trouble.
Jan 16th 2015
160
Heyman dropped one of his best promos ever on Smackdown
Jan 16th 2015
159
I just watched the promo on YouTube...
Jan 16th 2015
161
Spike Dudley called out Stone Cold Steve Austin & Domestic Violence
Jan 16th 2015
162
Del Rio has signed with Lucha Underground
Jan 18th 2015
163
I think that's dope with Alberto ...
Jan 19th 2015
164
it didn't really occur to me how short they are on heels until now
Jan 19th 2015
165
yo they should just can The Ascension after this lmao
Jan 19th 2015
166
I wish Lesnar loved Wrestling as much as Cena
Jan 20th 2015
167
I have him in that Austin category of coulda/shoulda/woulda
Jan 20th 2015
171
Why did they bring up The Ascension just to bury them every week?
Jan 20th 2015
168
I'm hoping they get the 3MB treatment going forward.
Jan 20th 2015
170
Brock seems like he buttfucks the most badass guys he can find
Jan 20th 2015
169
lol
Jan 20th 2015
185
Anyone else terrified anytime Daniel Bryan bumps?
Jan 20th 2015
172
RE: Anyone else terrified anytime Daniel Bryan bumps?
Jan 20th 2015
178
yeah, there was a spot where Bray didn't really catch him
Jan 20th 2015
183
Wow, did Brock turn face?
Jan 20th 2015
173
They've done a great job working the angles here
Jan 20th 2015
174
RE: They've done a great job working the angles here
Jan 20th 2015
176
Brock has always been kind of tweenish
Jan 20th 2015
175
      You're definitely right...
Jan 20th 2015
177
           He's never been wrestling an authority guy on PPV either
Jan 20th 2015
180
Ric Flair had the black dude hold the ropes open for him...on MLK day
Jan 20th 2015
179
You wanna work here?
Jan 20th 2015
188
RACIST SUMMAMA BITCH I'M ON QUIT WATCHING NOW
Jan 20th 2015
200
Seth is killin the weasel heel roll
Jan 20th 2015
181
The ascension could be great, but WWE seems to hate them
Jan 20th 2015
182
Seth was killing me before Cena came out
Jan 20th 2015
184
Agreed re: the Ascension. Those promos are abysmal.
Jan 20th 2015
187
      yeah, i think there's a way to do it
Jan 20th 2015
189
hey yo, can we talk abt the de-evolution of the big-league heel though?
Jan 20th 2015
190
      after watching a bunch of old stuff on the network, i agree
Jan 20th 2015
191
      I love a good back rake
Jan 20th 2015
192
           one of my favorite things is shawn michaels' hair pull
Jan 20th 2015
193
      I think a lot of old school psychology like that is just flat out dated....
Jan 20th 2015
194
      I agree, but not everyone can be Randy Orton
Jan 20th 2015
195
           Agree completely on Orton, and that's why I used him
Jan 21st 2015
203
                re: nut shots
Jan 21st 2015
204
                     It’s like they based Reigns character Dwayne’s character in the Toot...
Jan 21st 2015
205
      The problem isn't the heels, it's the faces.
Jan 20th 2015
196
           RE: The problem isn't the heels, it's the faces.
Jan 20th 2015
197
           nWo and Attitude era were great but have a negative impact on today real...
Jan 20th 2015
198
                The standard set by that era's guys is laughably unfair today
Jan 20th 2015
199
                     No different than any form of "in my day we did this" that ppl love
Jan 21st 2015
202
Yo….. Dudley’s rumored to be in the rumble
Jan 20th 2015
186
last year it was gonna be Sting and AJ Styles.
Jan 21st 2015
206
      They weren't WWE alumni
Jan 21st 2015
207
I'm sure everyone's heard about this (HHH and the crying kid)...
Jan 21st 2015
201
aren't all cena fans perpetually crying
Jan 21st 2015
208
he made it to good morning america lol
Jan 23rd 2015
214
      sounds like the kid was actually a Triple H fan
Jan 23rd 2015
215
no mtter the dire situation, cena is ALWAYS smiling and
Jan 21st 2015
209
RE: selling the whole time...
Jan 21st 2015
210
rosenberg, taz, josh matthews, jim ross, colt all got into it on twitter
Jan 23rd 2015
211
Matthews shot at Ross wasn't related to the Rosenberg tweet though
Jan 23rd 2015
212
      didn't say it was. but they all were in the same time frame
Jan 23rd 2015
213
           Just poor production quality all around
Jan 23rd 2015
216
                u ever heard taz's first podcast on blogtalk radio?
Jan 23rd 2015
217
                     No I was never a big Tazz (the announcer) fan so I didn't bother
Jan 23rd 2015
219
                     He speaks the way I'd imagine New Jersey lunch lady
Jan 25th 2015
223
Jim Ross calling Roman Reigns picking up the mic hahaha LINK
Jan 23rd 2015
218
Perfect.
Jan 23rd 2015
220
RE: The Rock is in Philly
Jan 25th 2015
221
The rumble is tonight !!!
Jan 25th 2015
222
while i think Brock/Reigns is pretty much a lock at this point,
Jan 25th 2015
224
hope reigns doesn't win tonight.
Jan 25th 2015
225
RE: hope reigns doesn't win tonight.
Jan 25th 2015
226
The Rock appearance was interesting...
Jan 26th 2015
227

BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
85075 posts
Sun Dec-14-14 08:21 PM

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1. "boooo @ the "doctors" coming out"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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KCPlayer21
Charter member
30076 posts
Sun Dec-14-14 08:27 PM

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2. "Decent starting match, glad Ziggler has the strap back....."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


We the children of the Light, you know what I mean?
That's why I'm hating on the darkness like Paula Deen
Cause in my hood they masked up like it's Halloween
We going hard for the Rock, but we not some fiends
- Andy Mineo

  

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im_freshhh
Member since Oct 26th 2007
1675 posts
Sun Dec-14-14 08:58 PM

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3. "This stairs match gotta be one of the dumbest ideas"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

_________________________________________________________________________________

I'm a simple man. I like pretty, dark haired women and breakfast foods.
IG/Twitter: @sammiie_b

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
85075 posts
Sun Dec-14-14 09:00 PM

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4. "adding the big slow did it no favors either."
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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KCPlayer21
Charter member
30076 posts
Sun Dec-14-14 09:05 PM

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5. "Wow, just knew Cena/Rollins was gonna be the main event....."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


We the children of the Light, you know what I mean?
That's why I'm hating on the darkness like Paula Deen
Cause in my hood they masked up like it's Halloween
We going hard for the Rock, but we not some fiends
- Andy Mineo

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
85075 posts
Sun Dec-14-14 09:24 PM

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6. "man cena never sells. he just plays possum."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
85075 posts
Sun Dec-14-14 09:39 PM

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7. "ugh cena matches always devolve into absolute clusterfucks"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

to get him Ws that he does not need. it's ridiculous

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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KCPlayer21
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30076 posts
Sun Dec-14-14 09:42 PM

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8. "I was really hoping they wouldnt give him the win....."
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

but Vince is set on Cena/Lesnar yet AGAIN....




We the children of the Light, you know what I mean?
That's why I'm hating on the darkness like Paula Deen
Cause in my hood they masked up like it's Halloween
We going hard for the Rock, but we not some fiends
- Andy Mineo

  

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Oak27
Member since Apr 17th 2005
13192 posts
Sun Dec-14-14 09:44 PM

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9. "Can they at least add Seth into the match at Rumble?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Do we really need to see Cena v. Brock AGAIN? Hopefully Cena loses because if Brock loses than him beating Taker at Mania and Cena at Summerslam was for nothing. Since they are dead set on putting Reigns over the only logical move going forward is him going over Brock at Mania. I just honestly don't feel like he's ready yet. He needs a loooot of work on the mic, or at least a mouthpiece until then.

  

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Oak27
Member since Apr 17th 2005
13192 posts
Sun Dec-14-14 09:54 PM

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10. ""I'm the first one to declare at the Royal Rumble match." (c) Reigns"
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

  

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jimaveli
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6614 posts
Sun Dec-14-14 10:00 PM

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12. "Maybe the laptop will do it for us..."
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

Reigns as Superstar of the year is embarrassingly heavy-handed. Rollins was the nerd choice and a great storyline choice. He could've Owen'd it and made a big outrageous deal out of it (only to have it be somehow exposed that the Authority rigged it on their way out or something).

Now, they are just lying about stuff since DB fell off the face of the earth before they could ruin him.

Jimaveli

>Do we really need to see Cena v. Brock AGAIN? Hopefully Cena
>loses because if Brock loses than him beating Taker at Mania
>and Cena at Summerslam was for nothing. Since they are dead
>set on putting Reigns over the only logical move going forward
>is him going over Brock at Mania. I just honestly don't feel
>like he's ready yet. He needs a loooot of work on the mic, or
>at least a mouthpiece until then.

  

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Af-1
Member since Apr 22nd 2008
3461 posts
Wed Dec-17-14 07:03 AM

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28. "That's the thing I never understood regarding Brock's build..."
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

His contract currently ends at WM31 and there's now talk of him possibly returning to MMA - if he leaves then the mighty career build of this year was kinda for nothing in my eyes. Obviously it makes for buy rates, and some jaw-dropping moments, etc but it leaves a bad taste in my mouth that he ended the Streak, destroyed Cena then left. I'd feel a way about it if I was either of them I think.

Also, I'd like to see Lesnar lose the title before WM31 if he isn't going to re-sign otherwise there's less of a buzz if he's in the title match with everyone knowing he's going to leave the next day.

-----
Check me out, say hi...
Visit our soul/jazz/funk internet radio station, Blue-in-Green:RADIO: http://www.blueingreenradio.com/
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Y2Flound
Member since Aug 16th 2005
9819 posts
Wed Dec-17-14 08:43 AM

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29. "Thing is we all know what we get at Mania"
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

Usually the huge star babyface beating someone evil for the title

As things currently stand if we have Reigns winning the Rumble and Brock coming in as champ we know how this story ends at Mania whether Brock is leaving the next day or signed for the next 10 years.

  

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KCPlayer21
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30076 posts
Sun Dec-14-14 09:59 PM

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11. "Kane/Ryback and Rowan/Show have been the two worst matches tonight....."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


We the children of the Light, you know what I mean?
That's why I'm hating on the darkness like Paula Deen
Cause in my hood they masked up like it's Halloween
We going hard for the Rock, but we not some fiends
- Andy Mineo

  

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KCPlayer21
Charter member
30076 posts
Sun Dec-14-14 10:15 PM

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13. "God I hate Rusev....."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


We the children of the Light, you know what I mean?
That's why I'm hating on the darkness like Paula Deen
Cause in my hood they masked up like it's Halloween
We going hard for the Rock, but we not some fiends
- Andy Mineo

  

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KCPlayer21
Charter member
30076 posts
Sun Dec-14-14 10:26 PM

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14. "if Vince was smart....."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

he would have had a brass ring hanging above the ring for this TLC match, the winner is the person who gets the brass ring.....




We the children of the Light, you know what I mean?
That's why I'm hating on the darkness like Paula Deen
Cause in my hood they masked up like it's Halloween
We going hard for the Rock, but we not some fiends
- Andy Mineo

  

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KCPlayer21
Charter member
30076 posts
Sun Dec-14-14 10:29 PM

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15. "Comment from my 9 year old....."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

"if they dont have to climb the ladder to get anything, isn't this just a No Holds Barred match?"




We the children of the Light, you know what I mean?
That's why I'm hating on the darkness like Paula Deen
Cause in my hood they masked up like it's Halloween
We going hard for the Rock, but we not some fiends
- Andy Mineo

  

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Oak27
Member since Apr 17th 2005
13192 posts
Sun Dec-14-14 10:36 PM

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16. "He's already outgrowing the PG era"
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
85075 posts
Sun Dec-14-14 10:38 PM

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17. "young smark in training."
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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KCPlayer21
Charter member
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Sun Dec-14-14 10:40 PM

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18. "Lil dude cracks me up...."
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

he just asked me if this was a Tables, Ladders, Chairs, Kendo Sticks Match.....




We the children of the Light, you know what I mean?
That's why I'm hating on the darkness like Paula Deen
Cause in my hood they masked up like it's Halloween
We going hard for the Rock, but we not some fiends
- Andy Mineo

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
85075 posts
Sun Dec-14-14 10:48 PM

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19. "is it me or do these announcer tables not collapse like they used to"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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QBoogie
Member since Jun 05th 2002
5885 posts
Tue Dec-16-14 10:44 AM

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23. "its not just you my friend!"
In response to Reply # 19


  

          

  

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KCPlayer21
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Sun Dec-14-14 10:49 PM

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20. "This Cleveland crowd is trying too hard, doing all these NXT chants...."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


We the children of the Light, you know what I mean?
That's why I'm hating on the darkness like Paula Deen
Cause in my hood they masked up like it's Halloween
We going hard for the Rock, but we not some fiends
- Andy Mineo

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
85075 posts
Sun Dec-14-14 11:11 PM

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21. "even Russo scoffs at the malfunctioning TV ending"
In response to Reply # 0
Sun Dec-14-14 11:14 PM by BrooklynWHAT

  

          

Vince Russo @pyroballyhoo · 9m 9 minutes ago
Would have liked to see Bray win war against Ambrose--minus exploding monitor, BUT, you can't deny-Those guys LEFT IT ALL OUT THERE! KUDOS!!

wwe in 2014 tanked 3 of their most promising and entertaining rising stars in cesaro, bray and ambrose for god knows why. it's like they want to fail.

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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jimaveli
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Mon Dec-15-14 12:12 AM

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22. "RE: even Russo scoffs at the malfunctioning TV ending"
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

>Vince Russo @pyroballyhoo · 9m 9 minutes ago
>Would have liked to see Bray win war against Ambrose--minus
>exploding monitor, BUT, you can't deny-Those guys LEFT IT ALL
>OUT THERE! KUDOS!!
>
>wwe in 2014 tanked 3 of their most promising and entertaining
>rising stars in cesaro, bray and ambrose for god knows why.
>it's like they want to fail.
>
>

Well...they're allegedly planning to put Bray with Taker at Mania so he's have to finna go on a run.

Mania almost has to have some good matches though...

Super Early 'I guess' WM card:
Brock vs Reigns
HHH vs Sting
Bray vs Taker
Cena vs Rusev (sigh)
Orton vs Ambrose (with some stip to allow Ambrose to go full indy for 20 minutes)
Ziggler vs Rollins in a 'how am I not doing more' match.
Big Red vs Harper vs Show vs Kane for some reason
Cesaro needs to win this battle royal
Get on the show tag match
Get on the show Diva match

Rollins need to cash in and mess up this draft show.

  

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Y2Flound
Member since Aug 16th 2005
9819 posts
Tue Dec-16-14 01:01 PM

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24. "I actually love the patience with Rollins"
In response to Reply # 22


  

          


>Ziggler vs Rollins in a 'how am I not doing more' match.

>
>Rollins need to cash in and mess up this draft show.
>

He has gotten over as probably the biggest heel on the show, every other MITB winner would have cashed in by now, won the belt and then lost it shortly after.

They are really building with Rollins, I'm assuming we will get a Rollins for Reigns feud after mania which will take us into the next MITB, maybe Summerslam.

Guys never hold onto the briefcase anymore, they blow the wad so quickly and almost never do anything long term (Ziggler, Del Rio, Sandow, Punk's original cash in, even Cena). Kennedy was the only guy they really made a long term plan for but then he got hurt.

I don't know the Rollins thing has been planned out step by step, but I really like that he is going to hold onto that case for 6-10 months before using it and hopefully really come out a true main eventer and title contender in the long term, rather than just right now until he loses the belt and is a midcarder again.

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
44843 posts
Tue Dec-16-14 01:12 PM

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25. "Dolph held his for like 9 months"
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

He won in July and didn't cash I until the day after Mania.

  

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Y2Flound
Member since Aug 16th 2005
9819 posts
Tue Dec-16-14 01:55 PM

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26. "Youre right, he just lost it so fast I forgot"
In response to Reply # 25


  

          

  

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Buck
Member since Feb 15th 2005
16160 posts
Tue Dec-16-14 02:40 PM

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27. "Whoa. Glad I didn't bother with Raw last night. (Torch swipe)"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Was it as bad as all this?

http://pwtorch.com/artman2/publish/The_Specialists_34/article_82311.shtml#.VJCJbuZdp7E

Dolph Ziggler, one of WWE's fastest rising faces, has his IC Title ladder match victory briefly mentioned on Raw before losing a throwaway tag team match. Wrestlers with one-dimensional gimmicks that have not connected to the crowd were forced to carry nearly two hours of a three-hour program, developing no stories and losing the crowd in the process. TLC's main-eventers were nowhere to be found, and half of the card's matches will be repeated on WWE TV some time this week. Monday Night Raw was an absolute train wreck of pacing, storytelling, and enjoyment, a creative black hole where the only things that escape are bad dialogue and incessant re-matches.

With the Diesel-esque Roman Reigns quickly approaching main event status in WWE, Monday's Raw showed more signs that the company is reaching a Creative low point not seen since 1995. With start-and-stop pushes, throwaway matches, and lines that wouldn't make a hyena cry, Monday Night Raw was an insufferable program that did exactly nothing.

The main event segment between Seth Rollins and John Cena was the sole highlight of the show. Both men worked hard to deliver memorable spots, using J&J Security effectively to build the drama of the match. Brock Lesnar's interruption was appropriately exciting, and Rollins's win fell right in line with his smarmy character. The final half-hour of Raw was a cohesive piece of work that served as a beacon of light on this otherwise sad show.

Compliments over. Time for the problems.

For one, Chris Jericho was extremely off his game, being forced to regurgitate lines that sounded as though they were composed by a five-year-old. He was quickly overexposed on the program as he both called Lana a streetwalker and threatened to assault a middle-aged father of two. Jericho felt extremely out of place tonight, feeling like a relic of the Attitude Era that needs to be removed faster than three-month-old milk inside a fridge. Chris Jericho is entertaining; Chris Jericho being forced to repeat lines about "Fanbunghole" is not.

The next problem came in terms of pacing. Chris Jericho was in the ring three separate times on the broadcast. Rising stars Dolph Ziggler, Erick Rowan, and Ryback were out one time apiece with their brief segments never being referred to after taking place. If the WWE Universe is supposed to be this sort of... well, universe, then the commentators and producers need to present the show in a manner so that all segments feel as if they are important and have lasting effects.

Speaking of commentary, there's Michael Cole, who incessantly spews out lines about Damien Mizdow needing to "take bumps" and how much "fun" the WWE is. He's being produced to repeat these lines in most instances, but there is a severe absence of genuinity. Because when I watch Top Chef, Grimm, Breaking Bad, or any other show on television geared towards humans above the age of three, I need to be constantly reminded how fun the product is. It sounds like Vince McMahon is reminding Cole to throw this out every other segment, just in-case the audience forgot they were supposed to be "having fun." Stories cannot be told when the "Voice of the WWE" acts as if he is a part of a bad Rifftrax commentary.

Back to pacing, the show grinded to a halt when viewers were expected to sit through a throwaway Divas match, a 15-minute tag re-match from the previous night's pre-show, and an Adam Rose squash. All of these matches are comprised of characters that are either inconsistent (Bellas), non-existent (Natalya, Alicia Fox, New Day) or portrayed as losers (Adam Rose, Kane). If the viewer is not told to care, the viewer will not care. That is why I did not care about anything on this broadcast tonight outside of Brock Lesnar, the WWE Champion who neglected to even bring his title out with him on his first entrance of the night.

Monday Night Raw was insulting to watch, a slap in the face of wrestling fans and those who work in the television industry. As 2014 leads into 2015, it seems that the cries for a rejuvenated product will continue to go ignored.

  

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magilla vanilla
Member since Sep 13th 2002
18758 posts
Wed Dec-17-14 08:45 AM

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30. "It's not even that it's bad."
In response to Reply # 27


  

          

Because bad could at least be entertaining.

It's that, for all Vince's talk of "telling stories," the developmental roster told more and better developed stories in 2 hours than the main has told in the last 8 hours of programming in the last four days.

It's that, with Brock Lesnar being the sometime attraction - and the only person on the roster right now that can make anything matter - they haven't done anything to fill that power vacuum. There's no way to be the top guy in the champ's absence that doesn't include "be John Cena." The build to PPVs is now "have everybody fight in tags and handicap matches, so the crowd has seen these two guys go at it 50 times before the supposed blowoff." The build to IC title matches is "have the champ lose a bunch of non-title matches so his opponent looks 'strong' and like a credible threat - who cares what the champ looks like?"

If you keep showing the crowd that nobody matters, and giving away the "paid" fights for free, eventually the crowd's going to go along with you.

>Was it as bad as all this?
>
>http://pwtorch.com/artman2/publish/The_Specialists_34/article_82311.shtml#.VJCJbuZdp7E
>
>Dolph Ziggler, one of WWE's fastest rising faces, has his IC
>Title ladder match victory briefly mentioned on Raw before
>losing a throwaway tag team match. Wrestlers with
>one-dimensional gimmicks that have not connected to the crowd
>were forced to carry nearly two hours of a three-hour program,
>developing no stories and losing the crowd in the process.
>TLC's main-eventers were nowhere to be found, and half of the
>card's matches will be repeated on WWE TV some time this week.
>Monday Night Raw was an absolute train wreck of pacing,
>storytelling, and enjoyment, a creative black hole where the
>only things that escape are bad dialogue and incessant
>re-matches.
>
>With the Diesel-esque Roman Reigns quickly approaching main
>event status in WWE, Monday's Raw showed more signs that the
>company is reaching a Creative low point not seen since 1995.
>With start-and-stop pushes, throwaway matches, and lines that
>wouldn't make a hyena cry, Monday Night Raw was an
>insufferable program that did exactly nothing.
>
>The main event segment between Seth Rollins and John Cena was
>the sole highlight of the show. Both men worked hard to
>deliver memorable spots, using J&J Security effectively to
>build the drama of the match. Brock Lesnar's interruption was
>appropriately exciting, and Rollins's win fell right in line
>with his smarmy character. The final half-hour of Raw was a
>cohesive piece of work that served as a beacon of light on
>this otherwise sad show.
>
>Compliments over. Time for the problems.
>
>For one, Chris Jericho was extremely off his game, being
>forced to regurgitate lines that sounded as though they were
>composed by a five-year-old. He was quickly overexposed on the
>program as he both called Lana a streetwalker and threatened
>to assault a middle-aged father of two. Jericho felt extremely
>out of place tonight, feeling like a relic of the Attitude Era
>that needs to be removed faster than three-month-old milk
>inside a fridge. Chris Jericho is entertaining; Chris Jericho
>being forced to repeat lines about "Fanbunghole" is not.
>
>The next problem came in terms of pacing. Chris Jericho was in
>the ring three separate times on the broadcast. Rising stars
>Dolph Ziggler, Erick Rowan, and Ryback were out one time
>apiece with their brief segments never being referred to after
>taking place. If the WWE Universe is supposed to be this sort
>of... well, universe, then the commentators and producers need
>to present the show in a manner so that all segments feel as
>if they are important and have lasting effects.
>
>Speaking of commentary, there's Michael Cole, who incessantly
>spews out lines about Damien Mizdow needing to "take bumps"
>and how much "fun" the WWE is. He's being produced to repeat
>these lines in most instances, but there is a severe absence
>of genuinity. Because when I watch Top Chef, Grimm, Breaking
>Bad, or any other show on television geared towards humans
>above the age of three, I need to be constantly reminded how
>fun the product is. It sounds like Vince McMahon is reminding
>Cole to throw this out every other segment, just in-case the
>audience forgot they were supposed to be "having fun." Stories
>cannot be told when the "Voice of the WWE" acts as if he is a
>part of a bad Rifftrax commentary.
>
>Back to pacing, the show grinded to a halt when viewers were
>expected to sit through a throwaway Divas match, a 15-minute
>tag re-match from the previous night's pre-show, and an Adam
>Rose squash. All of these matches are comprised of characters
>that are either inconsistent (Bellas), non-existent (Natalya,
>Alicia Fox, New Day) or portrayed as losers (Adam Rose, Kane).
>If the viewer is not told to care, the viewer will not care.
>That is why I did not care about anything on this broadcast
>tonight outside of Brock Lesnar, the WWE Champion who
>neglected to even bring his title out with him on his first
>entrance of the night.
>
>Monday Night Raw was insulting to watch, a slap in the face of
>wrestling fans and those who work in the television industry.
>As 2014 leads into 2015, it seems that the cries for a
>rejuvenated product will continue to go ignored.

---------------------------------
Photo zine(some images NSFW): http://bit.ly/USaSPhoto

"This (and every, actually) conversation needs more Chesterton and less Mike Francesa." - Walleye

  

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QBoogie
Member since Jun 05th 2002
5885 posts
Wed Dec-17-14 10:51 AM

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31. "so I went to the NXT Takeover in person ..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

... better live than on TV. Also made the fam some custom t-shirts and a lot of the guys at reddit dug them and told me to put them up so here they are:


Fight Owens Fight:
http://www.redbubble.com/people/qboogie/works/13374542-fight-owens-fight-debut-edition

Red Arrow/Adrian Neville:
http://www.redbubble.com/people/qboogie/works/13372955-red-arrow


Sami Zayn Club:
http://www.redbubble.com/people/qboogie/works/12835473-samizayn-club
thanks for the positive feedback as well!

Also Owens dug the shirt himself:

http://imgur.com/ZtquCKR

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
44843 posts
Wed Dec-17-14 11:22 AM

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32. "So…Dolph/Rollins are clearly the best choice WM main event"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Not even debatable IMO.

I know, I know, Cena/Lesnar/Reigns/Muscles/Merch blah blah blah
FOH with all of that.

I’m game for Reigns/Lesnar, but only because I dig Reigns. I don’t think he needs as much “time” as people think. They can literally just decide to run a program and build him through Mania and it will work. The end. In fact, they could do the same with Cesaro. The scripted promos are going to fucking KILL Reigns though, and Cesaro is another victim of Vince’s control freak ways. Yes, Vince is now at the point of diminishing returns and his presence is hurting the brand more than anything.

Blasphemy, I know, but it’s the truth. Vince is hurting WWE be virtue of his existence. His fetish for BIG! MUSCLES! CATCH PHRASE! Is actively hurting the product.

FOH with all this bullshit about how Cena outsells everyone in merch, he draws better, blah blah blah.

Nobody is being given the chance. You have to actually BUILD THESE GUYS UP.

A chance doesn’t mean a two month program where they shitcan a push because it didn’t move the needle.

A chance means pushing a guy. Protecting him. Pushing him some more. And some more.

You know, like they’ve done with Rollins, who isn’t exactly Jeff Hardy on the mic, but he’s not exactly CM Punk either. Rollins has been pushed and protected and LOW AND FUCKING BEHOLD, he’s a fucking star who can carry shit. When they decided to put serious weight behind Punk, he got awfully close to Cena. Bryan was a fucking tidal wave that could not miss. The WWE minted two new guys who snatched the fuck out of that Brass ring and could have seriously ascended to something reasonably close to that Cena stature, given the time. Injuries ultimately fucked that up, but they got themselves into the conversation.

Oh, make a wish? Hear Punk tell it, Cena isn’t lapping the field the way WWE makes it seem, it’s just that the WWE markets the living shit out of his appearances while just plain not mentioning else. You don’t think these other guys would get more of those if they’re given the fucking opportunity and actually positioned AS top guys? Remember how the Rock was some rising tide that was supposed to lift all boats? Yeah. No. He got guys a better payday, but he didn’t elevate anyone or anything. Nobody benefitted long term from that dude. They need to build stars, and they have the talent pool to make it happen. They’ve probably got the best overall collection of talent they’ve had since the Smackdown Six.

Dolph is right there, right now. Just give him the fucking push. Give him the marketing muscle. He’s on that bubble of hitting that Punk/Bryan status, and he’s done it without a pipe bomb or a catch phrase. He wears pink, shakes his ass during his ring entrance, dies his hair blonde in a way that highlights his roots, and guys STILL go ape shit over him while women lust over him. Why? Because he’s fucking awesome in that ring. Yeah, you can market all that shit.

So since it’s crystal clear that Dolph/Seth absolutely will not main event Mania, just pair them up for Mania, assign Steamboat as their road agent, put Savage in the HOF, start running vignettes detailing the greatness and significance of that WM III match, have Rollins disrespect Steamboat, let Dolph make the save, and set this shit up for Mania. They’ll rival that shit.

Let Rollins lose honorably to setup his turn, let Reigns win with Heyman turning on Brock to side with the NEW Next Big Thing, let a freshly faced Seth cash in at the end and call it a fucking day.
Rollins/Ziggler could, would, and should be done and made into a seriously big deal at Mania. They won’t main event because MUSCLES! Unless, of course, another steroid scandal hits. Then they’ll be pushed to fucking Saturn.

  

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magilla vanilla
Member since Sep 13th 2002
18758 posts
Wed Dec-17-14 11:30 AM

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33. "Cesaro too"
In response to Reply # 32


  

          

Fuck Vince not thinking he has "it."

Dude had fans dressing up and holding "Cesaro Section" signs, and what does WWE do? Quash that with the quickness. Dude didn't just GRAB the brass ring at Wrestlemania, he melted it down into a dookie chain.

---------------------------------
Photo zine(some images NSFW): http://bit.ly/USaSPhoto

"This (and every, actually) conversation needs more Chesterton and less Mike Francesa." - Walleye

  

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Af-1
Member since Apr 22nd 2008
3461 posts
Tue Dec-23-14 04:58 AM

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34. "RE: So…Dolph/Rollins are clearly the best choice WM main event"
In response to Reply # 32


  

          

Although I do get kinda excited at the prospect of Lesnar/Reigns, I have to agree that Ziggler/Rollins are rightfully the title main event for WM. They've worked hard for it, both had great years and the match would be exceptional. Don't think it's impossible that it could happen but I guess it is unlikely.

As much as I like Reigns, I am of the mind-set that he isn't actually ready for it. I thought he had a great match with Orton at SummerSlam but I do feel that was more Orton than anything else. I'm actually struggling to come up with other singles matches that Reigns has had where you could argue him as a legit contender - and that isn't the case with Rollins, Ziggler, Ambrose, Wyatt, etc.

-----
Check me out, say hi...
Visit our soul/jazz/funk internet radio station, Blue-in-Green:RADIO: http://www.blueingreenradio.com/
https://www.mixcloud.com/Blue_in_Green_Sessions/
http://soundcloud.com/user305437292

  

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bucknchange
Member since May 07th 2003
3590 posts
Thu Dec-25-14 02:59 PM

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41. "RE: i wanna all three shield members in 3way for title"
In response to Reply # 32


  

          

of course seth wins & retains

  

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Af-1
Member since Apr 22nd 2008
3461 posts
Tue Dec-23-14 04:58 AM

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35. "Raw boasted a couple of amazing matches..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Rollins/Cena and Ambrose/Wyatt were crazy impressive!

-----
Check me out, say hi...
Visit our soul/jazz/funk internet radio station, Blue-in-Green:RADIO: http://www.blueingreenradio.com/
https://www.mixcloud.com/Blue_in_Green_Sessions/
http://soundcloud.com/user305437292

  

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Oak27
Member since Apr 17th 2005
13192 posts
Tue Dec-23-14 09:57 AM

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36. "Yeah but do we really care to see Rollins/Cena for the 3rd time in 8 nig..."
In response to Reply # 35


  

          

And Bray/Ambrose AGAIN??

  

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DJR
Member since Jan 01st 2005
18637 posts
Tue Dec-23-14 11:45 AM

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37. "will Ambrose ever win a big match?"
In response to Reply # 36


  

          

He lost every single one on one match in both of his singles feuds so far, didn't he?

Like Tommy Dreamer against Raven.....with both Rollins and then Wyatt playing the Raven role.

  

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Oak27
Member since Apr 17th 2005
13192 posts
Tue Dec-23-14 01:07 PM

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38. "He beat Cena in that whatever-on-a-pole match"
In response to Reply # 37


  

          

Since then he's been paying the price of going over on Cena.

  

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QBoogie
Member since Jun 05th 2002
5885 posts
Tue Dec-23-14 01:25 PM

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39. "I thought I'd never say this but..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

... I miss Orton on the show and of course DBry. I do some more time w/o Reins.

  

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bucknchange
Member since May 07th 2003
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Thu Dec-25-14 03:11 PM

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42. "RE: orton is the most consistent/polished not named cena "
In response to Reply # 39


  

          

  

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bucknchange
Member since May 07th 2003
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Thu Dec-25-14 02:57 PM

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40. "RE: what should happen in Royal Rumble, leading to WM"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

royal rumble card
brock/cena - cena should win @ royal rumble with unwanted help from the authority (hhh rub), seth cashes in & wins at royal rumble because of the shock of the authority winning him the match

royal rumble final 5 - zigg, wyatt, orton, ambrose, reigns - wyatt & orton eliminate zigg
wyatt, orton, ambrose reigns
wyatt & orton eliminate each other potenial fallout 3way feud with zigg/orton/wyatt face/tweener/monsterheel

authority with new champ come to the ring to watch former shield members battle to face him

cena comes down argues with hhh on apron, because of some many people on apron, double elimination of reigns/ambrose - NO CONTEST

RAW AFTER RUMBLE -
hhh comes out & says cena called the authority for insurance because he thought he couldn't beat brock by himself
cena says hhh is lying. says hhh called him said that he had his back. hhh then says that if cena retained cena promised he would reinstate authority and that he should honor their arrangment
seth says it doesn't matter cena is old news
ambrose & reigns make their case for winning the rumble
vince comes out says regardles a convo between hhh/cena happen doesn't know what to think who's lying they effected outcome of rr
so vince announces FastLane card, gives cena ultimatum he either reinstates authority for tainting title bout or his 'fired':

FastLane
zigg vs seth (champion vs. champion)
reigns vs. ambrose (no dq for wm main event)
wyatt vs. orton
cena announcement

wyatt vs. orton - build up to this, orton keeps saying that wyatt is in head in dreams, voices are telling him to succumb to the darkness. match: brutal back n forth. orton wins with rko. sets up punt after match, wyatt screams for it, he doesn't wyatt smiles gets hits sister abaigal, waits to he gets up slowly punts orton, helps orton up carries him off

reigns vs ambrose - come out shake hands, face vs. face, jj security come out turns into 2 vs 2 match. rusev/seth comes out and they start annihilating both. no contest.

zigg vs seth - zigg upperhand wyatt comes out to annilate zigg, orton comes out, but attacks zigg. seth retains. ambrose and reigns for the save attack seth.

cena reinstates authority under a condition, hhh says he has no leverage. says he wants brock & hhh @ wm with a partner of his choice.
hhh announces 3 way for title since no contest

WM:
seth vs ambrose vs reigns
cena/special partner*(sting) vs hhh/brock
zigg vs. wyatt (orton in wyatts corner still unstable)

  

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Y2Flound
Member since Aug 16th 2005
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Thu Dec-25-14 03:16 PM

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43. "This like most fantasy booking is cool, but we all know it has 0% shot"
In response to Reply # 40


  

          

There are 100 scenarios better than Reigns winning the Rumble and going over Brock but we all know what we're getting.

The only possible chance of it not happening is a surprise Bryan return, but I'm pretty sure he's not ready so we have no hope.

  

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bucknchange
Member since May 07th 2003
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Thu Dec-25-14 03:44 PM

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44. "RE: gotta pull the trigger on mitb cashin pre-wm"
In response to Reply # 43


  

          

shit is starting to look too telegraphed so far out, unless they plan on hitting reset after wm again

  

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Y2Flound
Member since Aug 16th 2005
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Fri Dec-26-14 09:45 AM

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46. "He has til June or July, a cash in vs Reigns makes sense"
In response to Reply # 44


  

          

That likely will be Reigns first big feud post Mania.

  

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Af-1
Member since Apr 22nd 2008
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Sat Dec-27-14 11:37 AM

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47. "I wouldn't think Bryan has a chance of usurping Reigns at all."
In response to Reply # 43


  

          

-----
Check me out, say hi...
Visit our soul/jazz/funk internet radio station, Blue-in-Green:RADIO: http://www.blueingreenradio.com/
https://www.mixcloud.com/Blue_in_Green_Sessions/
http://soundcloud.com/user305437292

  

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Y2Flound
Member since Aug 16th 2005
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Sat Dec-27-14 11:39 AM

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48. "Probably not, just the only possible guy I think"
In response to Reply # 47


  

          

If he were to get cleared health wise and have a surprise return at the Rumble they have to know how much money that would be worth to take advantage of.

Also the idea of Lesnar vs Bryan is appealing for the david vs goliath aspect

He won't be healthy though so it's not really important.

  

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jimaveli
Charter member
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Thu Dec-25-14 08:45 PM

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45. "No solo for Brock?"
In response to Reply # 40


  

          

AND Brock possibly in a ring with old @$$ Sting? I doubt it. I always like these convos tho, so thanks for jumping it off...

Hate done, I'm all about a Shield-only main event however it goes down. Reigns is at his best when the other guys do the heavy lifting and he can just check the monster boxes. And Rollins vs Ambrose is THE match for them right now.

I have to assume and be happy with the idea that WWE could easily moonwalk out of this Reign over Brock Mania plan. Last year gave us proof that they 'could' rebook a show two months before. Maybe Brock is the Phil this year that leaves and forces an issue, but I doubt it.

So...in reverse order of appearance..WM Card:

- Shield Implosion 3-way for the title
- Hall of Fame folks
- Ziggla vs Cena (#1 contender something or other..John Cena get down on tha flo')
- Divas: AJ's 19th last WWE match vs Cena's Girl
- Orton vs Brock
- Divas: Get on the show match with 8 chicks...I see Layla and Natalya.
- OverTaker vs Wyatt
- HHH vs Sting
- US Title: Rusev crush Big Red (or Ryback)
- Battle Royal/hoss-off: Cesaro (if he's still in WWE) vs Harper vs Sheamus vs Show vs Henry vs Kane vs Big Red (or Ryback)
- DB shows up talking about how he's finna be but still not wrestling.
- Awesome opener: Sami Zayn vs Kevin Stee...I'm just playin...we ain't that lucky, but NXT has all but earned a spot on Mania at this point.
- Preshow: the match where Mizdow 'breaks free' from Miz. 4-way tag to get dancing black, Misbooked-Dusts, and Carlito's cuzins on the show.


>royal rumble card
>brock/cena - cena should win @ royal rumble with unwanted help
>from the authority (hhh rub), seth cashes in & wins at royal
>rumble because of the shock of the authority winning him the
>match
>
>royal rumble final 5 - zigg, wyatt, orton, ambrose, reigns -
>wyatt & orton eliminate zigg
>wyatt, orton, ambrose reigns
>wyatt & orton eliminate each other potenial fallout 3way feud
>with zigg/orton/wyatt face/tweener/monsterheel
>
>authority with new champ come to the ring to watch former
>shield members battle to face him
>
>cena comes down argues with hhh on apron, because of some many
>people on apron, double elimination of reigns/ambrose - NO
>CONTEST
>
>RAW AFTER RUMBLE -
>hhh comes out & says cena called the authority for insurance
>because he thought he couldn't beat brock by himself
>cena says hhh is lying. says hhh called him said that he had
>his back. hhh then says that if cena retained cena promised he
>would reinstate authority and that he should honor their
>arrangment
>seth says it doesn't matter cena is old news
>ambrose & reigns make their case for winning the rumble
>vince comes out says regardles a convo between hhh/cena happen
>doesn't know what to think who's lying they effected outcome
>of rr
>so vince announces FastLane card, gives cena ultimatum he
>either reinstates authority for tainting title bout or his
>'fired':
>
>FastLane
>zigg vs seth (champion vs. champion)
>reigns vs. ambrose (no dq for wm main event)
>wyatt vs. orton
>cena announcement
>
>wyatt vs. orton - build up to this, orton keeps saying that
>wyatt is in head in dreams, voices are telling him to succumb
>to the darkness. match: brutal back n forth. orton wins with
>rko. sets up punt after match, wyatt screams for it, he
>doesn't wyatt smiles gets hits sister abaigal, waits to he
>gets up slowly punts orton, helps orton up carries him off
>
>reigns vs ambrose - come out shake hands, face vs. face, jj
>security come out turns into 2 vs 2 match. rusev/seth comes
>out and they start annihilating both. no contest.
>
>zigg vs seth - zigg upperhand wyatt comes out to annilate
>zigg, orton comes out, but attacks zigg. seth retains. ambrose
>and reigns for the save attack seth.
>
>cena reinstates authority under a condition, hhh says he has
>no leverage. says he wants brock & hhh @ wm with a partner of
>his choice.
>hhh announces 3 way for title since no contest
>
>WM:
>seth vs ambrose vs reigns
>cena/special partner*(sting) vs hhh/brock
>zigg vs. wyatt (orton in wyatts corner still unstable)

  

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Tiger Woods
Member since Feb 15th 2004
18387 posts
Sat Dec-27-14 10:16 PM

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49. "The best match they can make RIGHT TODAY is Ziggler/Lesnar"
In response to Reply # 45


  

          

That's provided Daniel Bryan isn't playing lay and pray and pegged to win the Rumble.

I think everybody could get behind a Ziggler/Lesnar match. Ziggler will allow Brock to literally throw him like a dart from ring to floor. Have Ziggler pull it out after a 30 minute ass kicking for the ages...

...then drop to Rollins on some bullshit the next night on Raw

  

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Y2Flound
Member since Aug 16th 2005
9819 posts
Sat Dec-27-14 10:26 PM

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50. "Would be great but they clearly don't have that faith in Ziggler"
In response to Reply # 49


  

          

They are growing on him, but not at a rate fast enough for him to main event Mania and be the man that ends the Beast.

  

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KneelB4Me
Member since Apr 06th 2005
4473 posts
Sun Dec-28-14 02:58 AM

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51. "Plus, have Ziggs do what Cena couldn't? THAT aint happening."
In response to Reply # 50


          

I can see Ziggler going over Lesnar in the midst of crazy interference like Foley's first win, but that's about it (although I'd love to see it).


"I halfway hope people put "btw, rappers lie and shit" on CD covers, like a parental advisory sticker." - OKP Villain

www.twitter.com/lexlamont

  

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Y2Flound
Member since Aug 16th 2005
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52. "The most realistic summary about Reigns having to win at WM from Reddit"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

This was in regards to some good fantasy booking like everyone does at this time of year. His point about this being set in motion at last year's Mania is right.


It's too late for all of this. Undertaker's streak was broken, Cena got squashed, and now somebody has to beat Lesnar at Wrestlemania.

It's not going to be Ambrose, because his character isn't face of the company-material, and it isn't going to be Ziggler because it's been pretty clear over the years that WWE has no interest in pushing him unless EVERYONE gets injured. Bryan might not even be back for Wrestlemania. Besides, all those guys will have Wrestlemania matches (assuming Bryan's back by then), so their fans will be happy.

So it's Reigns. He has the lineage, he was trained by WWE, and since day one he's been WWE's choice to dethrone Cena. Yeah, he's not as over as they'd like him to be and he has five moves and he can't talk, but that's never stopped WWE from pushing a guy before.

There's no going back. It either works or it doesn't, but this is what is going to happen. Plans changed last year because of a perfect storm of events. Punk left, Batista wasn't well-received as a face, and Bryan was MEGA over. That's not the case this year. Reigns isn't despised, he isn't taking the spot from an obvious candidate (nobody in the company is as over as Bryan was last year), and it's extremely unlikely that a main event talent will walk out this year.

They're not going to waste Lesnar on anyone but their next top guy and Lesnar has to lose at Wrestlemania. I'm not crazy about it either, but it is what it is.

  

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Oak27
Member since Apr 17th 2005
13192 posts
Sun Dec-28-14 12:43 PM

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53. "I mean, yeah. It started earlier than that really"
In response to Reply # 52


  

          

Him breaking Kanes Royal Rumble eliminations record wasn't a coincidence. It's Vince once again only allowing HIS creation to get over while putting down the rest of the roster full of guys doing it themselves (Zigglers, Cesaro, Ambrose, etc) for not reaching for that brass ring of his.

  

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Y2Flound
Member since Aug 16th 2005
9819 posts
Sun Dec-28-14 02:00 PM

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54. "I don't know breaking the record had to lead to this"
In response to Reply # 53


  

          

It certainly never did for Kane and he held that record a really long time, but yea it was clear very early on that Reigns was going to be huge. Most people were ok with it back then because we didn't realize how fast and how rushed it would be.

Once Lesnar beat the streak and squashed Cena he could only lose to the next mega star and Reigns is basically the only guy they've put in the position while somehow being the one to earn it the least in the ring.

If you asked me at Rumble/Mania last year what the main event would be at WM XXXI I would have sworn up and down that it would involve Wyatt or Cesaro. I knew Reigns was a future star but he just didn't seem like he was the next one at that time.

  

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bucknchange
Member since May 07th 2003
3590 posts
Sun Dec-28-14 02:54 PM

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55. "RE: reigns is the guy. sure"
In response to Reply # 52
Sun Dec-28-14 03:00 PM by bucknchange

  

          

i just think some sort of swerve with seth having the belt
and having basically reigns chase him and others like db, zigg, ambrose would be 'better for business'
seth is hbk/flair level talent, but
brock/reigns is gonna have a big fight feel
maybe brock gets a 'work' injury via cena because brock/paul wm should be unbeatable unless your scsa/the rock

EDIT:
How do you book Fastlane (used to be Elimination Chamber)?
The ppv before WM, main event is already booked per RR
Brock will likely not be on this
meaningless ppv before your biggest?
this is why you need seth to once again carry the program, jump start feud with reigns and make wm red hot

  

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pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
12493 posts
Sun Dec-28-14 03:06 PM

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56. "the only hope is if the crowd completely turn on him"
In response to Reply # 52


  

          

It's starting to happen, but it's not nearly there yet. I don't think the kids will ever turn on him either. He's gonna be Cena with no mic skills if they run with him.

  

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Y2Flound
Member since Aug 16th 2005
9819 posts
Mon Dec-29-14 10:38 PM

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57. "Oh shit Bryan in the Rumble...there's a chance of something"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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DJR
Member since Jan 01st 2005
18637 posts
Mon Dec-29-14 10:43 PM

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58. "just give us Bryan/Lesnar or Bryan/Cena at Mania"
In response to Reply # 57


  

          

Fuck Reigns.

Either one of those matches is guaranteed to have an insane crowd reaction, and a near lock to be a really strong match. No reason to force anyone else into the role....basically everyone wants Bryan.

  

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Y2Flound
Member since Aug 16th 2005
9819 posts
Mon Dec-29-14 10:46 PM

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60. "LOL we literally had this same conversation at this time last year"
In response to Reply # 58


  

          

Replace Reigns with Batista

Will be interesting to see how they handle it this year

  

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DJR
Member since Jan 01st 2005
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Mon Dec-29-14 10:59 PM

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61. "haha, yup very similar"
In response to Reply # 60


  

          

I feel strongly about it. Bryan is the guy. Best wrestler and most popular with the fans. If he's good to go, just roll with it!

And I like Reigns, and at least he's fresh and new where Batista winning when he was only coming back for a few months would've been completely pointless.

  

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ChampD1012
Member since Sep 27th 2003
8355 posts
Tue Dec-30-14 07:27 AM

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65. "Theres no CM Punk to quit on the Raw after Rumble..."
In response to Reply # 61


  

          

Reigns is going to become a heel if he wins the Rumble

And the Rumble is in Philly?????

WWE has to know that this won't go well...

  

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Y2Flound
Member since Aug 16th 2005
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Mon Dec-29-14 10:44 PM

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59. "I still feel like Reigns wins, but Bryan adds a lot of X factors"
In response to Reply # 57


  

          

-Triple threat match to help carry Reigns is on the table

- Rollins and Bryan having a match at Mania could be amazing even without a title picture

- Some type of multiple matches to set the title match like there was last year involving all of these guys.

But I'm guessing we just get Reigns winning rumble and probably a Rollins Bryan feud

  

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adam
Member since Jul 15th 2006
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Tue Dec-30-14 01:45 AM

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63. "Dude had me doing the Yes chants from my couch"
In response to Reply # 57


  

          

That was played really well by Bryan. There was part of me that was hoping one night, whether at the Royal Rumble or some random Raw, his music would hit unexpectedly, and he'd run out and just beat the shit out of a few dudes. But this was great.

I'm really excited he's coming back, and, I guess this means, he's healthy. It would've been a shame if his career ended at this point, for a number of reasons.

  

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bucknchange
Member since May 07th 2003
3590 posts
Tue Dec-30-14 12:43 PM

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72. "RE: watch dBryan get eliminated by kane"
In response to Reply # 57


  

          

& they hit reset on that dumb feud.

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
44843 posts
Tue Dec-30-14 02:18 PM

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73. "I'd bet money he doesn't wind up in the rumble. "
In response to Reply # 57


  

          

Remember, The Authority came back at the end.

They'll probably resume their abuse of Bryan as part of their return.

  

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Y2Flound
Member since Aug 16th 2005
9819 posts
Tue Dec-30-14 02:29 PM

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74. "He's too far removed from that storyline now"
In response to Reply # 73


  

          

Its authority vs Cena this WM season

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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76. "I think you forget: this is WWE. "
In response to Reply # 74
Tue Dec-30-14 03:40 PM by Cold Truth

  

          

Sensible booking isn't exactly their stock in trade these days.

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Mon Dec-29-14 11:37 PM

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62. "from what I'm reading, tonight's raw looks like a fantastic show."
In response to Reply # 0
Mon Dec-29-14 11:38 PM by Cold Truth

  

          

E&C hosting? Yeah I'm in for that alone.

Cesaro gets a promo?! Then wrestles Barrett?
Yeah I'm in.

Rusev-Ziggler? Yeah I'm in.

I'm interested in The Ascension on the main roster. A true blue tag team that wasn't cobbled together? Yeah I'm giving them a fresh start despite being bored with them in nxt.

That ending sounds dope too.

Oh... and Bryan in the rumble?

Yeah all this sounds like a fantastic episode of Raw.

  

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adam
Member since Jul 15th 2006
2188 posts
Tue Dec-30-14 02:25 AM

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64. "Seth Rollins is the best thing going right now"
In response to Reply # 0
Tue Dec-30-14 02:28 AM by adam

  

          

He killed it all year, and tonight's last segment was just fantastic. Between all the injuries and the awesome heel champ showing up only a handful of times over these last few months, he's really had to carry things a lot, and I think he's been awesome. Oh, and he constantly churns out dope matches, which certainly helps.

edit: I also think Rusev's been real solid for a while too. Not Rollins-level, but I enjoy his matches a lot more than I thought I would. Obviously, tonight's match with Dolph was fun, but even when he's not wrestling someone as good as Dolph, Rusev still brings it.

  

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lazyboi
Charter member
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Tue Dec-30-14 10:55 AM

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66. "Daniel should have been a surprise RR entrant. WWE dropped the ball"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


"If you wanna help us, fine. Sit down with your kids and make 'em study at night...otherwise, shoot THIS mothaf*cka!" (c) Morgan Freeman,

  

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pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
12493 posts
Tue Dec-30-14 11:17 AM

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68. "surprise entrants don't get network buys."
In response to Reply # 66


  

          

they need a few people to believe reigns won't win so that everyone will watch the rumble. this accomplishes that.

  

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jimaveli
Charter member
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Tue Dec-30-14 11:27 AM

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70. "They needed the good news to change the momentum..."
In response to Reply # 66


  

          

They have to announce and play up any piece of good stuff they have.

DB was basically Black Messiah to me...aka I didn't think he was ever coming back. So, they got me by going deep into the 'retirement speech' waters with the tweet before Raw AND the announcing during the show AND him showing up to lay it on THIC with the 'it is over guys' face. 'I'm Magnum TA y'all. That's right. I'm crippled, the doctors are clueless and you'll never see me wrestling again unless you have the WWE network, which is $9.99'. I saw it all coming...then, BOOM! He swerves it up and say he's ready to roll at the Rumble!? Yes indeed.

He's winning the Rumble or Philly's gonna go smooth crazy. I can see the Authority putting him through it all over again though, so I could see anything jumping off now. As long as he ends up with the title shot at Mania, wrestling nerds will unite in general happiness.

WWE just went from having a Mania that could've had some good wrestling with the right booking to having a boom pow Mania that would have to be screwed up by their booking and/or more injuries.

For now, Reigns gets bailed out of having to carry things so he can just keep making up cutesy backdrops and slams until something else sticks (hint: throw in a Samoan Drop in there, big man).

Brock vs Bryan is wrestling nerd overload. Brock being on his way out matters so much less if DB is the one to get him. And Rollins is gonna be the king shit of heeldom for years to come when he cashes in on Bryan anytime after that. Optimism is alive.

Jimaveli

>"If you wanna help us, fine. Sit down with your kids and make
>'em study at night...otherwise, shoot THIS mothaf*cka!" (c)
>Morgan Freeman,

  

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Y2Flound
Member since Aug 16th 2005
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Tue Dec-30-14 11:40 AM

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71. "This is a terrible idea"
In response to Reply # 66


  

          

Not only would it not help sell the PPV as was said, but it also helps excite the audience that they totally lost the last few months.

The people who were begging for any non Reigns possibility and just got one.

  

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lazyboi
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77. "http://youtu.be/VRDSBbu_OYg"
In response to Reply # 71
Wed Dec-31-14 07:50 AM by lazyboi

  

          

http://youtu.be/VRDSBbu_OYg
and just putting a rumor out that former champ would participate would have created a buzz.


"If you wanna help us, fine. Sit down with your kids and make 'em study at night...otherwise, shoot THIS mothaf*cka!" (c) Morgan Freeman,

  

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Y2Flound
Member since Aug 16th 2005
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Wed Dec-31-14 11:22 AM

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79. "Those situations are not comparable"
In response to Reply # 77
Wed Dec-31-14 11:24 AM by Y2Flound

  

          

DB is the IWC champion, granted he is the rare wrestler that kids and adults both like, but WWE needs adults to buy back into their programs right now. The ones who spend 9.99 a month for things like the network, not just kids who convince their parents to buy it.

Also I can't recall 2008 that well, but everytime there is a "surprise" return that winds up winning it like Cena, HHH, Edge it is always pretty well known that they are going to return for the Rumble, we also knew they were going to return and win the belt at Mania. Bryan is totally different because we really didn't know if he would ever wrestle again let alone if. I wouldn't buy any rumors that he was returning until I heard it officially because nobody really knew what was up with his neck to begin with. We also don't know he is going to win the rumble, but now we have a little hope. A surprise return and him losing would have gone over terribly, at least now there is a chance to set up a storyline that makes him lose. Surprise wrestlers on his level must win the rumble and I don't think he is going to.

Also after last year's not announcing him and everyone hoping he was a surprise entrant you have to plug the hell out of him being in it this year. I was in that Pittsburgh rumble crowd last year, people there felt like the just watched their team lose the super bowl when Bryan didn't even enter. They are not going to buy in this year HOPING to see him again...we need to know.

Hell I don't even really need to make this case, look at the buzz that has been generated already online, check a place liked r/squaredcircle which is really the #1 spot for IWC activity at this point, they people they wanted to get excited for the Rumble are excited. A surprise would not have done that.

  

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lazyboi
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100. "they are identical"
In response to Reply # 79


  

          


"If you wanna help us, fine. Sit down with your kids and make 'em study at night...otherwise, shoot THIS mothaf*cka!" (c) Morgan Freeman,

  

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Y2Flound
Member since Aug 16th 2005
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101. "If DB is 200% guaranteed to win the Rumble and belt at Mania, then yes"
In response to Reply # 100


  

          

If not, then no

Announcing the DB return early is an attempt to get people who hate the idea of Reigns winning to tune in with hopes someone else is going to win or that the story may change.

They need people like me (if I didn't have network already) to buy in for this PPV and DB being in the mix does it.

That was not the situation with the Cena return in any way whatsoever.

  

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lazyboi
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67. "that last segment was AWFUL. I guess Christian rolled out"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

of the ring and went to warm the car up. dude got hit with a briefcase once, and was out for 45 minutes..like he was a refereee

"If you wanna help us, fine. Sit down with your kids and make 'em study at night...otherwise, shoot THIS mothaf*cka!" (c) Morgan Freeman,

  

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jimaveli
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Wed Dec-31-14 09:03 AM

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78. "Awful fo sho..."
In response to Reply # 67


  

          

>of the ring and went to warm the car up. dude got hit with a
>briefcase once, and was out for 45 minutes..like he was a
>refereee

We all thought selling/playing dead in wrestling bottomed out at The Worm or in 6-man ladder matches. Nope. They're pushing our love a little bit too far constantly with folks curled up on the floor for 10 minutes off of something close to nothing.

One day Brandon Stroud is gonna get to rejoice at Cena being revealed as a huge 'in on it the whole time' heel. Either that or Cena bringing back the Authority to save Edge is 'stupid' on such a large scale. There's no way that was planned long-term as how the Authority would make it back. No way. If so, a slow-play over a few weeks to establish that Cena and Edge are now somehow bros from another mo would've helped a lot. But nevermind...EDGE is in on the plan, right? Right?

And they really need to get back to properly selling the 'anything can happen' part of the game. AKA don't have Steph and Haitch show up right after that sequence of events. We know it is fake and we're clearly okay with liberties being taken since...well...it is fucking pro wrestling. But still..c'mon! Sell the shit like it is real..make it easier for me to take it in as a logical series of events. Don't abuse the fact that kayfabe has been being dead.

  

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pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
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Tue Dec-30-14 11:20 AM

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69. "so 6 months later reigns remembers rollins turned on him"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

and they blew the match on raw? no real buildup, and it wasn't even the main event. hilariously stupid. they don't even bother with real plans anymore.

this showed (again) how hard it is to produce 3+hours of entertainment. this show was one of the better ones this year and it was still painfully slow.

  

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bucknchange
Member since May 07th 2003
3590 posts
Tue Dec-30-14 03:39 PM

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75. "RE: db or reigns or db wins and seth cashes in"
In response to Reply # 69


  

          

i feel like a double elimination swerve is on the horizon for royal rumble.
i don't see brock wrestling 'fast lane' so theirs room to have substory: orton, ziggler, reigns, seth main event

  

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Af-1
Member since Apr 22nd 2008
3461 posts
Wed Dec-31-14 01:15 PM

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80. "I'm excited about 2015..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I think a lot of things are falling into place for a lot of guys we root for and have high hopes for them and the title picture in the coming year.

DB back is excellent news - I don't see him taking the Mania crown which would be amazing but I think with everything he's been through health-wise, it could potentially just make sense to see how he gets back into the swing of things over the next 6 months etc before long-term plans on that level would be considered. I do hope for Reigns's sake he isn't the one to eliminate him at the Rumble as I don't think that would help him.

I, like many here, have doubts about Reigns being ready for the top spot so soon - I honestly just don't think he's ready - but I'm excited about a new name taking a top spot. I also think the excitement and build-up for Reigns/Lesnar could be pretty big. I think those two for the title is a mega match-up so can't blame them for persevering with it.

Ziggler's had an amazing last 6 months or so - if he stays healthy and injury-free, he could move on to big things as it definitely looks like he's being prepped for.

Rollins is as awesome as it gets. Exceptional work, exceptional worker and the clock is clearly counting down to him wearing that belt.

Fascinated by the Mania booking this year. Intrigued to know where Cena's booking will place him if he doesn't walk in to Mania as champion?

-----
Check me out, say hi...
Visit our soul/jazz/funk internet radio station, Blue-in-Green:RADIO: http://www.blueingreenradio.com/
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bucknchange
Member since May 07th 2003
3590 posts
Wed Dec-31-14 03:54 PM

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81. "RE: very talented roster"
In response to Reply # 80
Wed Dec-31-14 03:56 PM by bucknchange

  

          

db/seth shouldcould be able to put on hbk/bret level matches for the title
you got skilled big guys in rusev, brock, l.harper, bnbarret(i'll throw in ryback, reigns with the right opponent)
and you got a great mainevent-midcard-not-in-the-title-picture guys in ambrose,wyatt,ziggler,cesaro,orton

  

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Y2Flound
Member since Aug 16th 2005
9819 posts
Wed Dec-31-14 05:27 PM

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83. "LOL this post is literally turning into last year's December post"
In response to Reply # 80


  

          

Lots of exciting stuff for sure

But let's not forget how excited we were at this time last year with DB, Cesaro, Wyatts, Shield etc... and how terrible the year was

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
85075 posts
Wed Dec-31-14 05:33 PM

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84. "hey at least april was good."
In response to Reply # 83


  

          

rest of the year was pretty shit tho.

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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Af-1
Member since Apr 22nd 2008
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Fri Jan-02-15 09:56 AM

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85. "It couldn't have been all that bad though..."
In response to Reply # 83


  

          

DB did get the shot, Bray is still doing well (with the rumoured Taker match at Mania too), the success of The Shield is self-explanatory too although, like others, not without its injury time.

-----
Check me out, say hi...
Visit our soul/jazz/funk internet radio station, Blue-in-Green:RADIO: http://www.blueingreenradio.com/
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Y2Flound
Member since Aug 16th 2005
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Fri Jan-02-15 11:35 AM

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86. "Almost none of the guys we were excited about are better off"
In response to Reply # 85


  

          

DB got his shot and inury took him down so that isn't something you can hold against WWE (although they certainly were tanking his title reign with that Kane feud)

Wyatt is basically exactly where he was a year ago and maybe even a little worse off. He gets in great feuds and gets TV time sure, but he has had 0 title opportunities (his character may not need titles, but putting a US strap on him would have done something) and doesn't really ever come out of feuds looking better than he did going in them. He is basically running in place.

The Shield has been handled well and those guys have been pushed, Rollins and Ambrose along with Ziggler were the best parts of 2014 for sure, but they weren't enough to make up for a generally lackluster year of shows.

Cesaro is the ultimate example of things going poorly for the crop of people we were excited over.

Basically there were some good moments in 14 and some stars have been made a little bit, but at this time last year we were picturing a 2014 full of Bryan, Rollins, Ambrose, Wyatt, Reigns, Cesaro and Ziggler being the main event world title feuds and the year really felt like just a holding place where nothing really changed.

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
85075 posts
Fri Jan-02-15 11:45 AM

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87. "Bray and Cesaro are fucked. Lets be real."
In response to Reply # 86


  

          

Cesaro moreso cause Vince dumbass doesnt even like him.

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
12493 posts
Fri Jan-02-15 02:16 PM

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90. "The treatment of those two is absolutely mind-boggling"
In response to Reply # 87


  

          

almost none of it makes any sense. i just have to stop thinking about it.

  

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cereffusion
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104. "it's troubling. "
In response to Reply # 90


  

          

  

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Af-1
Member since Apr 22nd 2008
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Fri Jan-02-15 01:00 PM

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89. "I can respect that you think 2014 may have been lackluster..."
In response to Reply # 86


  

          

but I don't see things the same regarding the wrestlers we've named: the IC title over the last few months went from Ziggler to Harper and back to Ziggler, the US title went from Sheamus to Rusev. Not bad names at all. The Heavyweight title picture looks worse - not because part-time Lesnar is champ - but because by Rumble he would only have had two title defenses and they have BOTH have been against Cena. (That's actually the biggest disappointment over the last few months in that we didn't see Lesnar against... well anyone else.)

The Shield are now 3 established singles wrestlers. That's pretty amazing. 1 of the 3 is practically the top heel and 1 is practically the the top face (or he will be by Mania).

Ziggler is having a great year. Being the sole survivor of 'Team "Cena"' and defeating the last 3 names is kinda a big deal. Wyatt may not have developed as fast as some would have liked but he closed the last PPV with Ambrose as the main event which is a big deal. Plus it seems he's facing Taker which isn't a distinction that gets handed to just anyone.

Cesaro... well they definitely dropped the ball there.

-----
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Visit our soul/jazz/funk internet radio station, Blue-in-Green:RADIO: http://www.blueingreenradio.com/
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jimaveli
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Sun Jan-04-15 10:44 AM

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94. "It starts from the top, right?"
In response to Reply # 80


  

          

I know folks love to say that Brock hanging out at the house with the main title isn't a big deal because the WWE has a good roster and we luv our nerdy guys having good matches at the beginning of hour two on our $9.99 PPVs, but when there's nothing truly 'big' for the 'best' folks on the show to fight for other than the farce of The Authority going away, that is a problem to me. AKA if WWE would've had an active non-Cena champ at the top of these cards for the last forever months, folks would have a much different impression of 2014..especially after the first quarter was Daniel Damn Bryan finally 'getting his' vs HHH, Bootista, Orton, and whoever. We all dug that stuff. We didn't dig him running like a bitch with his wife from 'Demon Beastly' Kane before he was kayfabe injured by him. Then, they made it worse by moonwalking out of it once it was clear that DB wasn't coming back any time soon. But I can't forget him beating boss HHH and surviving a video game double team move through a table to beat Orton and Bootista.

And I kinda get why we think the title isn't important. WWE helped. Brock being off the scene with it is a last straw. Then, Taker matches have basically main evented Mania with no title implications since WM 25. Add in that Phil (who is super mad) had the title for a year and could barely get above ADR status on a show. We were forced to focus on John Cena cuz he lost to the Rock one time and his world is coming to an end because of it. Let's ignore that he's still friggin John Cena, he basically never loses otherwise, and the bigger bodied Bella is his Bella..forget that, he's screwed in a bad way y'all. BS.

And now we're to a point where fighting for the title as a big deal in of itself can be called 'lazy booking'. There has to be a 'personal beef', heel authority figure shenanigans, or a wrestling-style attempt on someone's life for a title match to matter. And we get Vince himself showing up on his own shit and saying 'yeah...the title is whatever'. WHAT!? BS again.

If they make the title a big deal and listen to the crowds while watching the show, they'll have the info to make a logical decision on Reigns, Bryan, etc. If they ignore it all and Mania ends with regular ass face Cena or Sir Punchalot/Green Reigns/Duckface as champ, we'll see. But I'm optimistic somehow. Rollins is holding a briefcase and I think he's gonna somehow make us smile with when/how he uses it. It won't be cool heel. It won't be fun. It is going to be SUPER SHADY and chickenshit..like Honky Tonk Man shit.

>I think a lot of things are falling into place for a lot of
>guys we root for and have high hopes for them and the title
>picture in the coming year.
>
>DB back is excellent news - I don't see him taking the Mania
>crown which would be amazing but I think with everything he's
>been through health-wise, it could potentially just make sense
>to see how he gets back into the swing of things over the next
>6 months etc before long-term plans on that level would be
>considered. I do hope for Reigns's sake he isn't the one to
>eliminate him at the Rumble as I don't think that would help
>him.
>
>I, like many here, have doubts about Reigns being ready for
>the top spot so soon - I honestly just don't think he's ready
>- but I'm excited about a new name taking a top spot. I also
>think the excitement and build-up for Reigns/Lesnar could be
>pretty big. I think those two for the title is a mega
>match-up so can't blame them for persevering with it.
>
>Ziggler's had an amazing last 6 months or so - if he stays
>healthy and injury-free, he could move on to big things as it
>definitely looks like he's being prepped for.
>
>Rollins is as awesome as it gets. Exceptional work,
>exceptional worker and the clock is clearly counting down to
>him wearing that belt.
>
>Fascinated by the Mania booking this year. Intrigued to know
>where Cena's booking will place him if he doesn't walk in to
>Mania as champion?

  

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Y2Flound
Member since Aug 16th 2005
9819 posts
Sun Jan-04-15 05:09 PM

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97. "The misuse of champ Lesnar has been a huge problem"
In response to Reply # 94


  

          

It's not their biggest problem but it has certainly given the last few PPVs a small event feel.

I had no problem with Lesnar part timing as champ, but I still thought we would see more of him. This being only his 2nd title defense since August is a joke. At the very least he should have defended at Survivor Series to try to give that a major PPV feel again.

I imagined a scenario where Lesnar would show up to 1 Raw a month for a contract signing but still defend at least at every other PPV. You could give a big fight feel several times if you spent 2 months building one guy up but never getting him and Lesnar in the same place until the week of the PPV. If you really really built the guy as the face who can stop Lesnar it would have been great. Even if we knew the guy was going to lose you could spend that time building someone big, and losing to Lesnar would not really hurt a push since he is supposed to beat everyone. (as long as the guy he beats stays winning after the PPV)

Even using a guy like Sheamus who I personally hate in this role would have worked and made PPVs a little more exciting, but really you could do it with anyone. Hell, build Ziggler for 2 months as the guy smart and quick enough to beat Lesnar but then have Lesnar squash him anyway. Keep having Ziggler look good after the PPV, meanwhile Brock just keeps murdering all of your top faces.

Eventually someone like Reigns beats him and it makes the win an even better deal. The fact that Lesnar will have 2 title defenses by the time he loses makes the beating of him even less impressive.

  

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QBoogie
Member since Jun 05th 2002
5885 posts
Wed Dec-31-14 05:27 PM

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82. "Anyone excited for Wrestle Kingdom 9?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Shit I am!

  

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ChampD1012
Member since Sep 27th 2003
8355 posts
Fri Jan-02-15 12:37 PM

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88. "I might order it. "
In response to Reply # 82


  

          

  

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Brougham 2334
Member since Feb 21st 2004
564 posts
Sat Jan-03-15 06:22 PM

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92. "Can't wait, this event is a perfect storm of everything great in Pro Wre..."
In response to Reply # 82


          

I mean....Good Ole JR calling a Shinsuke Nakamura match is worth it alone.

  

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jimaveli
Charter member
6614 posts
Sun Jan-04-15 09:23 AM

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93. "Its ordered!"
In response to Reply # 82


  

          

>Shit I am!

And I'm pretty krunk for it. I just have to make sure I don't go into expecting a comp video. That's right...I'm old. I remember those old comp VHS joints from tape trading guys that would have stuff like nothing but AJPW main events on them. I would sit in awe and watch Misawa, Kawada, Kobashi, and even Taue do various modified mutilation suplexes, harder than Benoit chops, lariats, and elbows on each other for 30 minutes. The over the top 'selling' of fatigue is what I dug the most. It was an easier sell when the guys were a little more '80s southern' with their bellies on the scene. That and the fact that they were legit blowing each other up. Nevertheless...dope.

  

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ZooTown74
Member since May 29th 2002
43582 posts
Sun Jan-04-15 04:45 PM

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95. "Damn good show (mild SPOILERS review)"
In response to Reply # 82


  

          

Loved the NEVER title match as well as the last two matches on the card

Not really familiar with many of the Japanese wrestlers (though obviously I know who cats like Jeff Jarrett, Shelton Benjamin, Luke Gallows, etc are)

Production-wise, the show was solid, even though J.R. appeared to be understandably lost at times, and this was the first time when I can actually say I enjoyed listening to Matt Striker on commentary, as he played his role as the helpful bridge between NJPW and the American audience well.

This note is going to totally be some "Murica" shit, but in the future they could really stand to add subtitles to the pre-match packages that they run, and perhaps look into having an interpreter ringside (Tenay?) who can translate what's being said when wrestlers cut in-ring promos.

Those notes aside, it was a fun watch.

________________________________________________________________________________
Your typing ain't as "incendiary" as you think it is.

  

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jimaveli
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Sun Jan-04-15 11:19 PM

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98. "mo spoilers and thoughts..."
In response to Reply # 95


  

          

Nakumara is the shit. I mean damn. The shit! I will fo sho get up on some more of his matches.

Strong style IS strong. When someone actualy throws a punch, they are playing for keeps. And there's not a lot of punches as I expected. JR was luvin that! Elbow is still a Punch basically. That or a slap that Steph would so 'damn' on.

I could see how Tanihashi would have some hate but dude is still pretty damn dope in the ring. His moveset is stout even tho his high flow over and over thing could probably get old. And he's pretty clearly over. So it ain't like a Cena thing where folks grunt when he wins, right?

Never title match...damn man! Talk about stiff...good wrestling match tho. Hossathon with a gang of bombs fo sho.

And after all of the stuff I've read about AJ blowing spots and botching the styles clash, it was good to see him mostly stay clean. He looks bigger in a bad way tho.

Kenny Omega was dope too. His finisher screams out 'indy' but he's solid.

Overall, enjoyed what I saw. And the strong style was right up my alley. I missed a chunk of the first hour...was watching Cowboys/Lions. I'll go back and catch those matches. But I don't plan to miss any shows where English is in the mix. I loved the lack of bull for the most part. It was just match after match. And the best matches were pretty much at the end...imagine that.



>Loved the NEVER title match as well as the last two matches
>on the card
>
>Not really familiar with many of the Japanese wrestlers
>(though obviously I know who cats like Jeff Jarrett, Shelton
>Benjamin, Luke Gallows, etc are)
>
>Production-wise, the show was solid, even though J.R. appeared
>to be understandably lost at times, and this was the first
>time when I can actually say I enjoyed listening to Matt
>Striker on commentary, as he played his role as the helpful
>bridge between NJPW and the American audience well.
>
>This note is going to totally be some "Murica" shit, but in
>the future they could really stand to add subtitles to the
>pre-match packages that they run, and perhaps look into having
>an interpreter ringside (Tenay?) who can translate what's
>being said when wrestlers cut in-ring promos.
>
>Those notes aside, it was a fun watch.
>
>________________________________________________________________________________
>Your typing ain't as "incendiary" as you think it is.

  

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Brougham 2334
Member since Feb 21st 2004
564 posts
Mon Jan-05-15 11:51 AM

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99. "LOVED THE FOLLOWING:"
In response to Reply # 98


          

Shinsuke Nakamura, Ibushi, and Rainmaker Okada are STARS. Crossover stars. Throw Styles into that mix and you got the future of the company on lock. I personally don't understand the appeal of Tanahashi, I know he is the man that resurrected NJPW, and he certainly can wrestle an amazing match, but his shtick seems too dated/lame to crossover imo.

I thought Striker was great, he carried the broadcast, JR did seem overwhelmed, especially during tag matches. He did get back into old form during most of the singles matches. All in all great event, great for wrestling, unfortunate that flipps app kind of shit the bed for those of us who wanted to watch it live.

  

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magilla vanilla
Member since Sep 13th 2002
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149. "Kota is responsible for one of my most favorite sequences. "
In response to Reply # 99


  

          

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iDlh1dac-Y

---------------------------------
Photo zine(some images NSFW): http://bit.ly/USaSPhoto

"This (and every, actually) conversation needs more Chesterton and less Mike Francesa." - Walleye

  

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Soletaker
Charter member
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96. "I ordered"
In response to Reply # 82


  

          

I'm catching the Sunday Night showing. So I'm avoiding all posts and news sites until after. Looking forward to it.

--------

Mixcloud - www.mixcloud.com/Soultaker/

  

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QBoogie
Member since Jun 05th 2002
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Mon Jan-05-15 05:32 PM

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102. "as did I and it was hard..."
In response to Reply # 96


  

          

... but boy was that a fantastic show. I am now a fan of Kenny Omega, Nakamura, and NJPW as a brand. JR was lost at first due to the fast pace of the first few bouts but Striker was in deed great at complimenting JR and picking up the initial slack. Boy was this refreshing.

  

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QBoogie
Member since Jun 05th 2002
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103. "ya boy Booker T filling in for King tonight..."
In response to Reply # 102


  

          

... I hope Lawler is alright though. Booker T on commentary should be refreshing for a change.

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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91. "They should give Cesaro and Kidd the Power & Glory moniker "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

it fits perfectly and would refine what's currently a very loose gimmick. They're going to be damn good as a team if they keep them together, because it's clear they're a natural fit. Kidd's a little more of an attention whoring douchebag (Glory) while Cesaro exerts his strength in very arrogant way. All and all I really think they could tweak them a little bit and run with Power & Glory as a moniker that makes them both. They'll eventually become cool heels with a great face turn before Kidd's ego takes over and they split for what *could* be an amazing feud.

Plus, let's be honest, anything that would piss off Paul Roma is a good thing.

I know rehashing old gimmicks isn't really the best way to go but it's not like P&G was anything special, legendary, or what have you. Shit IMO the most notable thing about them is Roma's outsized ego in contrast to his actual ability and status.

  

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adam
Member since Jul 15th 2006
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106. "I liked what they had them tonight"
In response to Reply # 91


  

          

I think both of those guys are great, and some more heel tag teams would be nice. I guess the Usos are still feuding with Miz and Mizdown, but after them, I don't know who would be next up. I'd like to see Kidd and Cesaro beat the shit out dudes for a bit and then get a title shot. I think it's too soon for the Ascension to be in the tag title mix.

  

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bucknchange
Member since May 07th 2003
3590 posts
Tue Jan-06-15 02:00 AM

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105. "RE: cena pins brock, brock f5s/detroy cena, seth cash in ?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

#sethpleasemaineventwm

  

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Y2Flound
Member since Aug 16th 2005
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Tue Jan-06-15 10:33 AM

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108. "Rollins can't go into Mania as champ to fight Reigns or Bryan"
In response to Reply # 105
Tue Jan-06-15 10:34 AM by Y2Flound

  

          

I'd like it don't get me wrong, but we know how Vince views WM.

He needs the big names in the main event to sell it and get coverage through pop culture. He will always put a guy like The Rock or Brock in the main event given the chance. At the very least Cena. Even last year that is why he wanted Batista, he thought he would bring in his movie audience.

I can't see a WM main event featuring all up and coming new guys who have no outside appeal outside of wrestling.

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Tue Jan-06-15 11:10 AM

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111. "Agreed, but that's exactly why he needs to stop bringing in retirees"
In response to Reply # 108


  

          

You have to actually build new stars. It's actually NOT best for business to keep bringing these older names in. It hotshots buy rates and gets a few paydays, but the truth is the only guy who was used to actually mint a new star was Batista and we all know that only happened because Punk left. He helped get the Shield over even more than they were, but then they disbanded right after.

NOBODY has benefited from Brock. Since he's returned all he's done is feud with guys whose legacy was already etched in stone. Hunter? Cena? Taker? Henry and Big Show were supposed monsters that he completely neutered instead of elevating.

He had an awesome match with Punk that did add *something* to Punk's resume, but not much.

Rock?

Yeah, he came in and feuded with Cena, a guy who was already Teflon John.

Oh, he did have two matches with Punk. Cool. I guess. Nobody came up as a result of his presence.

These guys aren't Wrestlemania main eventers because he won't *make* them Wrestlemania main eventers.

They made a little extra on these names in the short term, but time has proven this to be a poor long-term strategy.The greater benefit after all these years would have been had by stronger, more consistent booking of their current crop dating back a few years.

  

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Y2Flound
Member since Aug 16th 2005
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118. "Yup agreed 100%"
In response to Reply # 111


  

          

Vince's whole nobody has grabbed the brass ring thing is the issue because he honestly believes it.

He thinks nobody has become a superstar since Cena because they have not done it themselves and totally ignores the fact that you have to help them to become superstars.

Guys like the Rock who can't be denied are 1 in a million, most superstar main eventers are made that way by WWE. Sure Cena grabbed the brass ring by working hard and getting over, but you also booked him to win major matches and feuds and be a main eventer.

You can't get a guy popular and then just bury him in bad storylines and losses and then wonder why nobody is a star.

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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109. "It gives them some interesting options, I'll say that. "
In response to Reply # 105


  

          

I’m curious if there’s a face turn in the works for either Seth or Lesnar. That doesn't make much sense since they're currently face heavy, kayfabe firings aside.

We all know a heel turn isn’t coming for Cena, but this match combined with the Philly venue is going to get Seth a shit ton of cheers. Cena will get much bigger boos than usual, people are likely pissed Brock is likely to bail again, and Seth’s work is exciting enough that all this will combine for big face pops during the match. If he cashes in, he’ll probably get a pop similar to what Dolph got on Del Rio.

Heyman turning on Brock (The Future is here, he’s the kind of guy who likes to get in on the ground floor, nobody else would have the balls to curb stomp Brock at NOC, etc) could be an interesting option.

In the end I doubt we get anything special but it’s a curious mix to have Cena in there with two heels, especially given the odd situation with Brock and Rollins.

If I’m a betting man, I’d put money on Orton being involved somehow, either getting shoehorned into a four-way at the 11th hour or simply doing a run-in that screws Seth out of the match. In that event, I won’t mind a clusterfuck finish that ends with RKO’s on everyone while Randy poses to end the match. At least, so long as it doesn’t mean yet another Brock/Cena match at Fastlane or whatever.

Can’t say I’m thrilled with this Authority angle but I’ll admit I’m intrigued by how things will work out from here.

  

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Y2Flound
Member since Aug 16th 2005
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Tue Jan-06-15 10:26 AM

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107. "JBL's announcing hit an all time low last night"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Dude is a heel announcer burying the brand new heel tag team. Talking about how they will never be as good as LOD and how the team they are beating is a worthless team and doesn't prove anything.

This is not how you build what is supposed to be your new big tag team.

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Tue Jan-06-15 10:57 AM

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110. "They’ve booked The Ascension terribly. "
In response to Reply # 107
Tue Jan-06-15 11:11 AM by Cold Truth

  

          

The opened with Miz & Mizdow, which was fine by me since Mizdow ate the whole match. It wasn’t a great choice but they went over one of the most over babyfaces, so I assumed they’d start out with a feud with the Miz & Mizdow leading to Mizdow finally turning on Miz after eating the Fall Of Man one time too many.

Then they had them come out against random jobbers and doing nothing to generate heat or cheers or anything. Then they come out and cut a terrible heel promo.

No.

These guys have an outdated meathead gimmick and they’re getting absolutely NO reaction because this shit is cheesy. So make them hurt people. Interfere in other tag matches. Make appearances on the ramp during a Los Matadores match or whatever. Have them decimate the New Day (Kofi & Woods, Big E makes the save). Have them bump into Mizdow in the back and beat his ass. Have an uncomfortable encounter with Gold Star (or whatever the fuck they’re being called) where they back down, then have them sneak attack the Usos.

After three weeks of that between Raw & Smackdown, guess what?

Now they have some fucking heat.

Now they’re a legit threat.

Instead, we get shitty promos shitting on dead legends while they take out A’noai C-listers in seconds.

It’s mind boggling to me how they can’t even execute basic and obvious booking these days.

  

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Buck
Member since Feb 15th 2005
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Tue Jan-06-15 12:06 PM

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113. "They don't employ any bookers."
In response to Reply # 110


  

          

>It’s mind boggling to me how they can’t even execute basic
>and obvious booking these days.

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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115. "No shit. "
In response to Reply # 113


  

          

  

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magilla vanilla
Member since Sep 13th 2002
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122. "What was even worse is they gave them weeks of vignette promos"
In response to Reply # 110


  

          

only to book their debut for RIGHT AFTER Daniel Bryan blew the roof off the place by announcing his return.

And WHAT was the motherfucking point of having Wade Barrett come back as a face in the middle of Cesaro's pipercracker promo if you were going to turn him into part of the Authority. You could have had Cesaro do his own version of the pipe bomb (and before he turned it into "I don't care about YOU PEOPLE," the crowd was getting ready to jump behind him, just like they were after the Andre Battle Royal), but instead you feed him to Wade Barrett and make him one of the "secret Rosebuds(as hilarious as I thought that bit was)?" And THEN you wonder why he's not connecting? It's because the audience has been conditioned to think "why bother? They're just going to put him into dumb shit anyway."

Now that NJPW is making inroads to America and trying to become a true global brand, I can't wait for Claudio to jump overseas and become the new king of Strong Style.

---------------------------------
Photo zine(some images NSFW): http://bit.ly/USaSPhoto

"This (and every, actually) conversation needs more Chesterton and less Mike Francesa." - Walleye

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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123. "Nah, the shit with Kidd is working. Even the Rosebuds shit. "
In response to Reply # 122


  

          

They're assholes and Cesaro wears it well. I still think he'd be a monster face if they simply let him. Vince is terribly out of touch though.

  

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Y2Flound
Member since Aug 16th 2005
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Wed Jan-07-15 07:50 AM

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124. "It's working despite the plan, not because of the plan"
In response to Reply # 123
Wed Jan-07-15 07:51 AM by Y2Flound

  

          

People want to get behind Cesaro so they will get into these ideas, but in reality this is a classic bury someone gimmick teaming them with Tyson Kidd and having them be secret rosebuds.

There is just a section of the audience that will like these 2 no matter what. Very similar to the whole Mizdow thing. That team was not put together to make him more popular, he just connected with the crowd anyway and they had to push the team when the clear purpose was to bury him further. Eventually they will split up and he will get another terrible idea for a story.

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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125. "Working is working. I don't think the "clear purpose" was to bury him"
In response to Reply # 124


  

          

>People want to get behind Cesaro so they will get into these
>ideas, but in reality this is a classic bury someone gimmick
>teaming them with Tyson Kidd and having them be secret
>rosebuds.

Based on what exactly? More likely, the thinking is that Kidd has time on Divas and has built himself up as a credible heel, but he's a little small for their tastes. Cesaro really made his bones in a tag team, came to WWE and had his biggest success as a tag team wrestler with The Real Americans, and they got paired up. I don't know if you've followed their recent matches together, but it's a good pairing. The rosebuds thing is just the latest antic.

>There is just a section of the audience that will like these 2
>no matter what. Very similar to the whole Mizdow thing. That
>team was not put together to make him more popular,

Actually, the team was put together to capitalize on his growing popularity. They weren't an actual tag team to start with. He was Alex Riley Part 2 and the more likely thinking was that the last time Miz got over, it was with a lackey he could abuse. Further, it fit the mold of Mizdow's previous 'Charlie Haas' gimmick. The plan wasn't to put Sandow over, but he GOT over, and *then* they decided to give them an actual tag team push. They didn't create that team to reverse his popularity, they actually tried to capitalize on it.

>connected with the crowd anyway and they had to push the team
>when the clear purpose was to bury him further. Eventually
>they will split up and he will get another terrible idea for a
>story.

Well yeah, they'll eventually split up, but not as some intentional burial. Everything I've read indications Sandow's actually getting as good of a reaction in the back as he does with the crowd. Whether "the back" includes Vince, who knows.

  

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magilla vanilla
Member since Sep 13th 2002
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150. "The shit with Kidd is "working." Cesaro SHOULD have been massive"
In response to Reply # 123


  

          

Putting him with Heyman put a lot of the brakes on his momentum because, as "well" as Cesaro wears being a heel, Heyman wears it like George Fucking Clooney wears a tux.

Then you have him cut down on a move that's popping crowds. Then you stop fans from joining the "Cesaro section" to cheer for that dude.

Cesaro should have been as big as Ambrose (who's also had the brakes applied), if not Reigns heading into the Rumble.

---------------------------------
Photo zine(some images NSFW): http://bit.ly/USaSPhoto

"This (and every, actually) conversation needs more Chesterton and less Mike Francesa." - Walleye

  

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pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
12493 posts
Tue Jan-06-15 11:26 AM

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112. "right? what the hell was that?"
In response to Reply # 107


  

          

He buried them the second he got the chance and at a very tenuous moment when the announcers are supposed to be saying "these guys mean business"

  

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cereffusion
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114. "they do almost nothing right"
In response to Reply # 112


  

          

raw is on mute 75% of the time and I don't even both watching it on the tv.

  

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Oak27
Member since Apr 17th 2005
13192 posts
Tue Jan-06-15 08:01 PM

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120. "Perhaps setting up a Ascension/APA fued?"
In response to Reply # 107


  

          

Bring the APA back for a few months and let them put them over at Mania?

  

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Y2Flound
Member since Aug 16th 2005
9819 posts
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121. "Nope, JBL is just a shitty announcer"
In response to Reply # 120


  

          

He does this stuff nonstop

  

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bucknchange
Member since May 07th 2003
3590 posts
Tue Jan-06-15 01:27 PM

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116. "RE: if the writing was a little more 'layered'"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

bryan & orton play a big part in the authority storyline, keeping them off tv this week is weird

  

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Y2Flound
Member since Aug 16th 2005
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117. "Orton is injured but yea you're right"
In response to Reply # 116
Tue Jan-06-15 01:30 PM by Y2Flound

  

          

Instead the storyline is picking up exactly where it was before Survior Series which means that entire PPV, that match of the year winner and the Sting appearance were all meaningless.

  

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bucknchange
Member since May 07th 2003
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Tue Jan-06-15 01:47 PM

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119. "RE: i think they trying to figure it out"
In response to Reply # 117


  

          

http://www.wrestlinginc.com/wi/news/2014/1229/588074/randy-orton-appears-after-tonight-wwe-raw/

he came out an RKO'd the heels in DC last week after the show went off the air. they're keeping him of tv for now

  

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Af-1
Member since Apr 22nd 2008
3461 posts
Wed Jan-07-15 12:44 PM

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126. "So, about the mammoth Brock build...?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Would you call it a success? I mean, his 2014 was as impactful as it could have been (WM, SS) but in the likelihood that Lesnar's leaving after WM, would you say it was for nothing, or did the news/TV buys/etc that it generated at the time do everything it was supposed to?

This is why I had such a problem with him being the one to end the Streak in the first place - the possibility that Lesnar wouldn't even be around the following year.

I definitely think that there was a missed opportunity with the Brock and Cena storyline following SummerSlam and, in my opinion, it didn't go where it needed to. Conversely, with the rematch, seeing how close Cena came to defeating him drastically undid the work they did building Lesnar the way they did.

-----
Check me out, say hi...
Visit our soul/jazz/funk internet radio station, Blue-in-Green:RADIO: http://www.blueingreenradio.com/
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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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127. "No. This entire run is pretty much garbage. He's added nothing. "
In response to Reply # 126


  

          

He hasn't built anyone by his presence.

Vince thinks Taker "did the honors", but that's bullshit. "Honors" are done to pass a proverbial torch, to solidify a legacy, to fucking MAKE someone.

You know who did the honors last year? Orton and Batista. They put a little dude over clean at Mania and (along with HHH) helped Bryan put the finishing touches on one the best rises to stardom in recent memory. It’s interesting considering it wasn’t supposed to go down that way. If anything, the Batista Backlash only helped Bryan’s cause and increased the fans fervor for him. Oh, and Orton and Batista (along with Hunter) put the Shield over in a big way.

Batista returned. He and Orton wound up “doing the honors” for the current crop of youngsters occupying the shoes they wore a decade ago.
Lesnar hasn’t done shit but pop a few buys and have a few dope ass matches. Nobody is better off for his tenure, unless you count a few extra bucks after a few shows. Three matches with Cena hasn’t done anything for anyone, including Cena.

  

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Y2Flound
Member since Aug 16th 2005
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Thu Jan-08-15 02:10 AM

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128. "Batistas return was successful, but it took the backlash to get there"
In response to Reply # 127


  

          

Had he returned, won the rumble, won the belt at mania, had a run and then left again it would be viewed as crap.

But WWE listening to the fans and Batista being willing to job cleanly so much and take on the role of heel made it work great. He earned a lot of respect the way he got himself back into wrestling shape and made guys like Bryan and Reigns look good.

None of that changes that Vince had an awful plan for him, but that's not Batistas fault, he dealt with the circumstances well as far as I can tell.

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Thu Jan-08-15 02:49 AM

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129. "I dunno why you insist on trying to &quot;educate me&quot; on shit we al..."
In response to Reply # 128
Thu Jan-08-15 02:51 AM by Cold Truth

  

          

I don't know why you insist on continuing to pepper me with these "b-b-b-b-b-but that only worked because x y z, and if p q r woulda shoulda coulda, then it wouldn't have been like that." responses.

Yeah, no shit.

I know these things. You're not enlightening me or correcting me or opening my eyes to anything.

Yeah, obviously, IF/WOULDA equals a lot of things. If Vince didn't bend to the fans fever pitch support of Bryan, Batista's run winds up a lot different.

Thing is, Vince listened, Batista did three consecutive jobs that left everyone he helped put over looking better as a result. I'm discussing what actually is. I cited an example of a big name being brought in and actually utilized the way they should be in light of Brock being used in absolutely the wrong way and nobody benefiting from him.

In the previous Cesaro post, I spoke about what actually IS in that Cesaro and Kidd are a good pairing with good ring chemistry and it's working, and there you were with the "b-b-b-but it's working DESPITE THE PLAN, NOT BECAUSE OF IT!!!" as though I'm over here championing the genius of the so-called plan as opposed to simply showing love for the guys making it work.

I mean, what next? I say something about how great Austin was, and you chime in with "b-b-b-b-but that only happened because he got hurt in WCW and there was a miscommunication with Bischoff so Bischoff fired him! If Bret didn't hand pick him for his return match, he would have never gotten past the Ringmaster gimmick!".

The Rock lived up to his self-proclaimed status as The Most Electrifying Man In Sports Entertainment. Are you going to rush in to remind me that Vince tried to bring him in as a white meat babyface with a goofy ass outfit, AND IF THE FANS WEREN'T BOOING THE SHIT OF HIM, by god, his rise never would have happened!

Hell, while we're at it, if WWE never rehired Daniel Bryan, he probably winds up in TNA or NJPW. HE'S ONLY OVER BECAUSE VINCE GAVE HIM A SECOND CHANCE! Yeah, doesn't change that he's over, just like "the plan" doesn't change the fact that Cesaro and Kidd are working well as a team or that Batista's run actually did more for the brand than Rock or Brock's did BECAUSE THEY ACTUALLY USED HIM TO PUT CURRENT STARS OVER.

Why doesn't change what is.

  

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Y2Flound
Member since Aug 16th 2005
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Thu Jan-08-15 09:20 AM

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130. "Damn man I was agreeing with you, why are you so combative?"
In response to Reply # 129
Thu Jan-08-15 09:22 AM by Y2Flound

  

          

Was basically making the point I went from hating him to respecting what he did over the span of a few months and that he was a big part of putting guys over last year.

You ok?

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Thu Jan-08-15 10:29 AM

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131. "Shit, long day I guess. My bad. "
In response to Reply # 130
Thu Jan-08-15 10:29 AM by Cold Truth

  

          

Looking at it right now it doesn’t seem like much but at the time, in conjunction with my Cesaro/Kidd post, it just seemed like you were trying to undermine my points with backstage political details as though I'm unaware of those things.

Whatever the case, yesterday was long as fuck and I didn’t get to really sit down and relax until like 11, so I was probably a little irritable and just took it outside the intended spirit of the post. My bad.

  

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pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
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Thu Jan-08-15 03:02 PM

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132. "it's a success for him/the title's prestige and a failure for the produc..."
In response to Reply # 126


  

          

The title is the holy grail right now. It seems relatively unattainable and that's great. Also, his squashing of cena will go down as pretty legendary and made summerslam the best show of the year. that said, it didn't help the company. w/o the title the company is very directionless. cena has a sense of purpose, but his feuds were just excuses to give him something to do in the meantime. orton, ambrose, and rollins were not real hurdles and the storylines to put them together were pretty slapdash. meanwhile, what is everyone else aiming for? they've just now started to elevate the IC and US title, but that's only because of who's been holding them and the quality of the title matches. it doesn't really seem like the rest for the roster is gunning for those titles, they just kinda end up contending at some point.

as i've said before, rollins has done a helluva job being the center of attention while the belt is gone, but that wasn't enough to keep everyone's storyline going for 5 tv hours a week. and with wwe trying to expand its audience via the network, the brass ring vince wants everyone to grab should be visible. the top rung of the ladder has been removed, so the rest of the roster has no goal to achieve. even just splitting the titles again and keeping the big gold belt defended regularly would work MUCH better than what they're currently doing.

additionally, the rumor is they want to pair undertaker with wyatt if taker is working this year's wrestlemania. presumably, if they aren't stupid, wyatt will go over taker... WHICH WOULD HAVE BEEN MILES BETTER FOR HIS CAREER AND THE COMPANY IF IT HAPPENED A YEAR AGO!!!! HOW DO YOU NOT KNOW HOW TO BOOK MONSTERS WWE?

>I definitely think that there was a missed opportunity with
>the Brock and Cena storyline following SummerSlam and, in my
>opinion, it didn't go where it needed to. Conversely, with
>the rematch, seeing how close Cena came to defeating him
>drastically undid the work they did building Lesnar the way
>they did.
>

i think this has been a problem with the announcing mostly, the match was well-booked in my opinion, though they could've had lesnar get a couple more shots in. remember that cena was on a mission to make lesnar tap out. lesnar was in trouble, but he's just such a monster i don't think you can predict it no matter how many times cena hit his finisher first. i mean he kicked out after 1 the first time he got AA'd. that's insanity. i read the match itself as "cena caught lesnar sleeping and made him sweat for the first time, but i'm not sure cena could've won." the announcers since have said "rollins screwed cena out of a certain win" and i think they should have said "rollins screwed cena out of potentially winning." a small change, but i think it would go a long way towards building the lesnar mystique.

  

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Af-1
Member since Apr 22nd 2008
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Fri Jan-09-15 09:06 AM

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133. "RE: it's a success for him/the title's prestige and a failure for the pr..."
In response to Reply # 132


  

          

Splitting the titles over two shows is always interesting - when there's only one title then it always makes all the sense in the world to have two; when there is two though, all anyone petitions for is for them to be unified. There's always good reasons for each arguement though.

My problem with the Cena/Brock story was... that there was no story. Brock did what he did and the question was 'where does Cena go from here?', but he came back the following week, looking stronger than ever; the talk continued as usual and he had a strong match with Lesnar the following PPV. The loss didn't formulate into a story - and I mean one way beyond 'turning Cena heel' - it's currently like it didn't happen but a main event title match like that for a top face should have been a turning point. Now, it's just something shocking that happened and that's all. (I do have unlimited respect for Cena for doing it though because I can't think of a single top guy that would have agreed to it.)

I'm getting a bit off-topic now but the Undertaker one is a tricky scenario. Completely agree that it would have been way better for WWE to have rolled the dice and given the Streak breaking to someone in the company they believe in going forward, not someone who has had 2 matches(?) since then and more than likely won't be around in a year's time. Booking Taker now though? I don't see the attraction of bringing Taker into a Mania going forward, plus him losing again at Mania? I dunno - I'm in favour of him continuing working if he wants to but make it a Summerslam or something - I think the Taker/Mania attraction should definitely be considered over now.

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magilla vanilla
Member since Sep 13th 2002
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Fri Jan-09-15 09:10 AM

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135. "If the loss to Brock had actually changed Cena"
In response to Reply # 133


  

          

And totally shaken his confidence to the point he was losing to Fandango, they could have done a really interesting story.

Cocky champ gets demolished, and works to get it all back. I mean, that's the core idea of "Rise Above The Odds," no? There's also a blueprint for how to do that with the DDP riches-to-rags-and-back story.

I mean, if the writers that get hired are reportedly TV-focused first, how are they THIS bad at writing stories?

---------------------------------
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Y2Flound
Member since Aug 16th 2005
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Fri Jan-09-15 09:14 AM

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137. "Biggest issues last few months: Nothing changed or progressed"
In response to Reply # 135


  

          

Authority is still in power and still hates Cena

Cena is still the same

Brock is still champ and we have not seen him

The whole point of the past 6 months with Survivor Series being the apex was for everything to change, but here we are in January and everything is exactly like it was in September.

  

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magilla vanilla
Member since Sep 13th 2002
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Tue Jan-13-15 04:38 PM

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147. "I don't care if Brock only shows up for the big four (and the builds the..."
In response to Reply # 137


  

          

And has Heyman hyping him periodically between all that. Because crowds still love seeing the guy when he shows up.

But the storytelling has been so static. They're only just now dealing with Rollins being the "ultimate opportunist" in the Edge model when he should have been bristling from the second that Heyman announced Brock "only fights for big money." Or in the interim, have someone elevate the IC belt as the "big prize left." Ziggler had it for what, a month? And now Barrett is taking non-title losses like he didn't even miss a day?

And they even screwed THAT up because Brock wasn't locked in for Survivor Series. Don't get me wrong, I love the idea that Survivor Series actually had an SS match as the main, but surely, the champ should have been there.

---------------------------------
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Af-1
Member since Apr 22nd 2008
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Fri Jan-09-15 09:50 AM

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140. "BOOM, exactly dude!!"
In response to Reply # 135


  

          

That's what I'm saying - there was no story to it and it went nowhere.

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pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
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Fri Jan-09-15 01:35 PM

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143. "i was definitely in favor of unifying the titles"
In response to Reply # 133


  

          

but also i thought they'd be defended and/or the midcard would be elevated... of course that's not what happened


>
>My problem with the Cena/Brock story was... that there was no
>story. Brock did what he did and the question was 'where does
>Cena go from here?', but he came back the following week,
>looking stronger than ever; the talk continued as usual and he
>had a strong match with Lesnar the following PPV.

yeah, this is the same mistake they made when Cena lost to Rock. They can't help but book him strong always. Although in fairness to this time around they were booking for a month not a year. They were just trying to sell NOC, not lead up to buys for WM.

I dunno - I'm in favour of him continuing working if
>he wants to but make it a Summerslam or something - I think
>the Taker/Mania attraction should definitely be considered
>over now.

I already resigned to the fact that if he was coming back they'd do it at Mania just because it'd be money to say "Will he come back from his only defeat?" It's probably better they leave it alone, but you know they'd rather milk an official retirement match than not. Can't say I really blame them (if he's in shape)

  

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Y2Flound
Member since Aug 16th 2005
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Fri Jan-09-15 09:06 AM

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134. "Did it help the title's prestige?"
In response to Reply # 132


  

          

It seems unattainable, but that's because nobody is allowed to wrestle for it.

It should have helped the prestige, but instead it just made people forget about the title and focus on other things. This part time experiment has been a failure in every way. Only defending against Cena and nobody else, months at a time without seeing him, there's just nothing to like about how it went down other than the idea of how it could have been.

  

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magilla vanilla
Member since Sep 13th 2002
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Fri Jan-09-15 09:13 AM

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136. "There was this weird gap where Heyman wasn't on TV"
In response to Reply # 134


  

          

and I think it was because they were too focused on building Survivor Series to keep him in the viewers' minds. But if you have him constantly out there explaining how awesome his client, BRRRRROCK LESSNAR is, and saying he doesn't fight for free (and if you actually negotiate/plan his dates so he's on the "go home" Raw and the major PPVs), there's a chance to build him into the special attraction that he still is (I mean, listen to the crowd when he does show up) properly.

---------------------------------
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"This (and every, actually) conversation needs more Chesterton and less Mike Francesa." - Walleye

  

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Y2Flound
Member since Aug 16th 2005
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Fri Jan-09-15 09:15 AM

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138. "Right, the idea of what could have been is great"
In response to Reply # 136


  

          

What actually happened didn't help anything.

  

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Af-1
Member since Apr 22nd 2008
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Fri Jan-09-15 09:33 AM

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139. "I'm coming round to the idea of Lesnar's monster build..."
In response to Reply # 138


  

          

all being solely to elevate whoever dethrones him at Mania. If Reigns is that guy, then there's nothing else WWE can do to put their faith in a wrestler - being the man who defeated Brock Lesnar at the Mania main event (Brock Lesnar, who ended the Streak and destroyed John Cena) is as epic as it gets. Maybe that's been the plan all along.

-----
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Brougham 2334
Member since Feb 21st 2004
564 posts
Fri Jan-09-15 11:01 AM

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141. "If Reigns is the guy to beat Lesnar, it won't work"
In response to Reply # 139


          

he is clearly not as over as he was last year, and with Bryan returning, I'm 100% sure a forced Reigns push will play out much like the return of Batista. Let Bryan beat Brock or Cena for the belt, let reigns take on Rusev, hell if they are tired of Brock, take the belt off him and let Reigns beat him clean at Mania, just not in the Main event for the belt.

  

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Y2Flound
Member since Aug 16th 2005
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Fri Jan-09-15 11:46 AM

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142. "Brock needed to beat more people"
In response to Reply # 139


  

          

Beating the streak and destroying Cena was cool

But imagine if the last 6 months had been full of Lesnar destroying everyone. Would make the Reigns (or whoever) win look a lot cooler.

  

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pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
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Fri Jan-09-15 01:44 PM

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144. "I meant more that contendership seems impossible"
In response to Reply # 134


  

          

if cena gets squashed, who would stand a chance? maybe orton or bryan. now obviously you can argue this is ultimately a bad thing as it threatens to make the rest of the roster look like amateur shit in the meantime. i'm not really sure where i stand on that. in theory i think they could make the roster look strong and still keep that holy grail out there, but that's also too much to ask for this company. the booking has been all over the place.

  

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Y2Flound
Member since Aug 16th 2005
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Fri Jan-09-15 02:11 PM

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145. "Yea, the storyline was missing title defenses though"
In response to Reply # 144


  

          

It doesn't seem like contendorship is impossible it just seems like the champ never has to defend the belt unless Cena has earned another shot.

Simply building up some guys like Sheamus, Ryback or any other big face as unstoppable and then having Brock beat them would have helped the story and also not hurt the faces if done right.

Instead we just got no title defenses for half a year.

  

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Oak27
Member since Apr 17th 2005
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Tue Jan-13-15 12:46 PM

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146. "Lemme know when WWE gets to their "we actually care about the product" s..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Their biggest issue with Reigns isn't the fact that he has no idea how to cut a decent promo, it's that even though this is an obvious trait they are not doing their job in highlighting his strengths (being a monster and beating the hell out of people) to hide his weaknesses. Instead, they give him a microphone every Raw and have him say the most childish, corny dialogue ever. Just let him say a few lines that paraphrase to "I'm about to beat the hell out of this guy because I'm huge and Samoan and that's what I do. B'LEEEEE DAT" That works better than "I'm faster than a speeding bullet, PWOOOOON!"

Speaking of which, who the hell greenlighted that Dean Ambrose shit last night? Hot, steaming garbage. He's just another on the list of guys who grabbed the "brass ring" and had it taken away from him from writers/management/Vince/whoever. Jesus, remember this summer when he was flying from one end of the arena to the other not giving a fuck how much risk he was taking and how bad he was hurting himself as long as he was hurting the other guy? I'm starting to forget, so please remind me.

I like having Rollins in the main event at Rumble, if only for the fact that we aren't getting Lesnar/Cena for the 3rd time. But I swear to god if this leads to Cena getting the pin on Rollins I'm going to be pissed for 3 reasons:
1) Ugh, Cena wins.
2) All this Brock shit, breaking the streak, annihilating Cena, etc, would all be for nothing if a new guy isn't elevated by beating him clean (even if it HAS to be Reigns, so be it).
3) I don't want to see Cena v. Reigns at Mania. Sorry. It's basically Old Cena v. New Cena as far as insufferably, superhuman babyfaces being jammed down our throats are concerned.

If Cena/Reigns is the ME at Mania, and the reason they are going to do that is they hope that Reigns will get cheered because the smarks hate Cena so much, I hope the crowd does the opposite and gets behind Cena just to spite these idiots writing (not booking, because these guys clearly have no idea what booking is) this shit.

  

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magilla vanilla
Member since Sep 13th 2002
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148. "Stroud made a great point about Ambrose and Reigns"
In response to Reply # 146


  

          

In that Reigns is being given shit material and doing a terrible job delivering it, while Ambrose is very visibly doing the best he can with shit writing, similar to what Bryan did (ironically enough in "therapist" segments).

The thing is, it's going to take as monumental a fan reaction to Reigns' all-but certain Rumble victory as it took Batista's failure as a face for Vince to pull the trigger on elevating anybody but Reigns to the top spot.

But yeah, that list of people who have built something only to have it yanked back is starting to pile the fuck up. You've got Ryder (who yeah, was limited, but was in Colt Cabana-level purgatory before he built his own thing), Ziggler (who, sure, suffers from chronic foot/tweet in mouth syndrome, but there's no denying the reactions he gets), Cesaro (most wasted heat ever by having him be a heel when EVERYONE WANTS TO CHEER THE STRONGEST MAN IN THE DAMN COMPANY), Punk (would probably still be in the company if their "creative" made any sort of sense), Ambrose, Wyatt and the Family - and I'm sure I'm missing plenty there

---------------------------------
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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Tue Jan-13-15 08:56 PM

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151. "Reigns would likely cut better promos if they stop scripting them. "
In response to Reply # 146


  

          

>Speaking of which, who the hell greenlighted that Dean Ambrose
>shit last night? Hot, steaming garbage.

I actually enjoyed the therapist shit. Being a headcase is the heart of his character and a bit like this was inevitable.

He's just another on
>the list of guys who grabbed the "brass ring" and had it taken
>away from him from writers/management/Vince/whoever. Jesus,
>remember this summer when he was flying from one end of the
>arena to the other not giving a fuck how much risk he was
>taking and how bad he was hurting himself as long as he was
>hurting the other guy? I'm starting to forget, so please
>remind me.

Definitely agree here. What's truly disappointing is that the feud he had with Bray should have minted both men into a new level, but shitty- hell, nonexistent writing made it an entirely forgettable experience. By the time HIC rolled around he was white hot on some Austin shit and they managed to suck a ton of that heat off him since.

>I like having Rollins in the man event at Rumble, if only for
>the fact that we aren't getting Lesnar/Cena for the 3rd time.

Shiiiiiiiiit. I like this if only for the fact that he's curb stomped Brock twice already on some Boss shit. I like the triangle here, with a good guy, a bad guy, and a badass guy. The wrinkle in relationship between Seth and Paul was fantastic. I see great things to come from that at some point. Seth in a main event title match is money.

  

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jimaveli
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Tue Jan-13-15 10:25 PM

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152. "I just hope..."
In response to Reply # 146


  

          

Rollins gets a successful super shady cash-in and jackass title run. That's basically why I at least read recaps still. I couldn't imagine sitting down for three real hours watching Raw right now. Still, the Rumble should be fun until Reigns jump punches and spears everyone while making duck faces, which was sadly awesome last year. If Fastlane is useful, color me shocked. Then they have no choice but to blow their loads for Mania, right? Right?

Firing Ziggler and killing whatever heat he had is the worst. It's like they don't trust fans to bigtime like more than a certain # of wrestlers at once. And trying to force us to roll with Reigns when DB, Orton, Ziggler, and Stone Cold Crazy Ambrose are already pretty much getting the heat is fool stuff. If DB fights Kane more after this week, c'mon.

And any Cena loss is borderline applauded over here. They have to know that's an issue and not a cool thing 'cuz the fans can decide what they want to cheer/boo'. It ain't XPac heat. But it is 'I'm sick of looking at this dude' Hulk Hogan 95 heat.

I could TOTALLY see them going with face vs face Cena/Reigns at Mania and then being shocked if folks don't GAF. Imagine THAT match with a shady Rollins appearance. Whooo! Face turn! But hey...let's assume they wouldn't do that even if Brock is headed to the house full-time after not retaining at the Rumble.

I can't pretend to know exactly what went wrong but I'll be damned if they haven't uckfayed almost everything since after that awesome as hell asswhooping Brock threw on Cena at Summerfest. But WWE hasn't done 'monster heel champ' properly on purpose outside of HHH pretty much ever. And even then they overdid it cuz he was winning 'too clean' while playing a chickenshitty Power Ric Flair character. It's like all Japan or WCW Vader tape is unavailable to them or something. Mark Henry? kinda?

No Brock on random shows was enough, but not mentioning him/the title AND not having him show up since NoC to kick off in somebody's ass makes it about as limpdick a monster championship run as can be. He isn't a monster at all. He won the tile in style then went out like a bitch at NoC. Meanwhile, Roman's looking strong. HE damn near needs to be the monster for someone to overthrow.

Jimaveli

>Their biggest issue with Reigns isn't the fact that he has no
>idea how to cut a decent promo, it's that even though this is
>an obvious trait they are not doing their job in highlighting
>his strengths (being a monster and beating the hell out of
>people) to hide his weaknesses. Instead, they give him a
>microphone every Raw and have him say the most childish, corny
>dialogue ever. Just let him say a few lines that paraphrase to
>"I'm about to beat the hell out of this guy because I'm huge
>and Samoan and that's what I do. B'LEEEEE DAT" That works
>better than "I'm faster than a speeding bullet, PWOOOOON!"
>
>Speaking of which, who the hell greenlighted that Dean Ambrose
>shit last night? Hot, steaming garbage. He's just another on
>the list of guys who grabbed the "brass ring" and had it taken
>away from him from writers/management/Vince/whoever. Jesus,
>remember this summer when he was flying from one end of the
>arena to the other not giving a fuck how much risk he was
>taking and how bad he was hurting himself as long as he was
>hurting the other guy? I'm starting to forget, so please
>remind me.
>
>I like having Rollins in the main event at Rumble, if only for
>the fact that we aren't getting Lesnar/Cena for the 3rd time.
>But I swear to god if this leads to Cena getting the pin on
>Rollins I'm going to be pissed for 3 reasons:
>1) Ugh, Cena wins.
>2) All this Brock shit, breaking the streak, annihilating
>Cena, etc, would all be for nothing if a new guy isn't
>elevated by beating him clean (even if it HAS to be Reigns, so
>be it).
>3) I don't want to see Cena v. Reigns at Mania. Sorry. It's
>basically Old Cena v. New Cena as far as insufferably,
>superhuman babyfaces being jammed down our throats are
>concerned.
>
>If Cena/Reigns is the ME at Mania, and the reason they are
>going to do that is they hope that Reigns will get cheered
>because the smarks hate Cena so much, I hope the crowd does
>the opposite and gets behind Cena just to spite these idiots
>writing (not booking, because these guys clearly have no idea
>what booking is) this shit.

  

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Af-1
Member since Apr 22nd 2008
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153. "Anyone hear Austin's latest podcast with Heyman?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Heyman's gold as always!

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pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
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154. "Did anyone else catch the Aztec Warfare ep of Lucha Underground?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

What an awesome idea. And that belt is gorgeous.

  

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Y2Flound
Member since Aug 16th 2005
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155. "Why does the WWE hate the Ascension?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

First you had the JBL burying, and now this is taken right from WWE.com raw recap

And while The Ascension is a ways away from truly surpassing The Road Warriors, Demolition and The Powers of Pain as WWE’s premier big-man tandem, their display against the latest locals to wander into their path was truly a thing of beauty.

Why even write that? Are they setting up a feud between a bunch of 60 year old men and them, or do they just want us to like them less?

  

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magilla vanilla
Member since Sep 13th 2002
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156. ""I gotta put these guys over . . ." Book, being the best possible announ..."
In response to Reply # 155


  

          

But the short answer is Kevin goddamned Dunn.

---------------------------------
Photo zine(some images NSFW): http://bit.ly/USaSPhoto

"This (and every, actually) conversation needs more Chesterton and less Mike Francesa." - Walleye

  

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lazyboi
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157. "making them super hateable heels..even the heels, hate them"
In response to Reply # 155


  

          


"If you wanna help us, fine. Sit down with your kids and make 'em study at night...otherwise, shoot THIS mothaf*cka!" (c) Morgan Freeman,

  

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bucknchange
Member since May 07th 2003
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Wed Jan-14-15 01:34 PM

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158. "RE: hurry up & give the belt to heel seth please"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5Fxr7e1yLw

who has more heat than this guy right now?
'i pinned john cena, all by myself'

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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160. "Seth makes me feel like Brock and Cena are in trouble. "
In response to Reply # 158


  

          

I like the way he's cutting these promos on not being afraid of Brock, and I love the way Brock and Cena are selling those Curb Stomps. This main event is intriguing as fuck now, especially with the subtle wrinkles between Paul and Seth.

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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159. "Heyman dropped one of his best promos ever on Smackdown"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I might go so far as to say that if I wanted to show someone everything that makes Heyman who and what he is as a character, I'd show them tonight's segment with Seth. Everything from entrance to exit was Heyman at his most Heyman-y.

Seth's mic work has been improving by leaps and bounds to boot, possibly delivering his best WWE promo to date. Scratch that, he cornered Paul and flat delivered his best WWE promo to date.

Seth and Paul have chemistry that reminds me of.... well... Heyman and Punk. The opener with Bryan was solid if for nothing more than we got to see Bryan and the crowd pop that comes with his presence. He's fucking money.

The segment with Paul and Seth though? Shit was fucking fire. I can't wait for these two to get paired up after (shit... before? fuck it.) Brock leaves.

But yeah. Seth and Paul are going to be money together.

  

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Af-1
Member since Apr 22nd 2008
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Fri Jan-16-15 07:10 AM

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161. "I just watched the promo on YouTube..."
In response to Reply # 159


  

          

You're right, it was very good.

Pairing Heyman and Rollins up makes all the sense in the world if Lesnar does in fact leave so fingers crossed it happens... or fingers crossed they just have something equally excellent lined up for Heyman post-Brock. Would be terrible news if he left too.

-----
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lazyboi
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162. "Spike Dudley called out Stone Cold Steve Austin &amp; Domestic Violence"
In response to Reply # 0
Fri Jan-16-15 11:32 AM by lazyboi

  

          

hahahaha old RAW footage. I remember watching it live Austin had me cracking up. entertaining. "it ain't fair, Spike"

http://youtu.be/K-DF0F3Wg48



"If you wanna help us, fine. Sit down with your kids and make 'em study at night...otherwise, shoot THIS mothaf*cka!" (c) Morgan Freeman,

  

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pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
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163. "Del Rio has signed with Lucha Underground"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I think this could be great for them and I hope they finally get a decent fanbase. Would love to see him and the owner teamed up. Don't expect him on TV for a while though. I think they're on a 2-3 month tape delay. Prince Puma just won the title and that happened in October.

  

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QBoogie
Member since Jun 05th 2002
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Mon Jan-19-15 11:21 AM

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164. "I think that's dope with Alberto ..."
In response to Reply # 163


  

          

... ROH/AAA/LU and if he does the ROH/NJPW shows too. WOW, there is life after WWE.

  

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pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
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165. "it didn't really occur to me how short they are on heels until now"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

was watching the smackdown replays and saw ambrose-reigns-bryan vs. the authority. add in cena to the group of top faces and you realize the authority poses no real threat to these guys. they can screw them out of title shots, deny them entry to the rumble or whatever, but as far as wrestling goes the only believable foil is rollins. as i've said before, rollins has done a great job as the central heel to the company, but he can't do it all. show and kane are just there to be knocked down and there's no one outside of the authority who looks great either (out of people that are on TV regularly).

i believe i've stated this before, but i think reigns should turn heel. people are starting to see his flaws (or at least the flaws in the writing for him) and its gonna be pretty brutal the more screentime he gets. if he aligns with the authority and is the tough silent guy he'll be a much better character and the authority can actually match up against the faces w/o all the dirty tricks EVERY single match. this also gives them a much better route to reigns-rollins-ambrose at WM (rollins wins the title, ambrose wins the rumble, reigns gets thrown in after turning or wins a shot at fast lane), which would be the best possible WM main event.

goddamn, i need to stop fantasy booking. it's such a waste of time.

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
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Mon Jan-19-15 10:14 PM

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166. "yo they should just can The Ascension after this lmao"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

man it's kinda rough out here for NXT Alumni.

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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Y2Flound
Member since Aug 16th 2005
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167. "I wish Lesnar loved Wrestling as much as Cena"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

He would be on the Mt. Rushmore of Wrestling wright now if he loved it like some of the greats.

Every time you see him just go full Lesnar in the ring you remember he could have been the GOAT

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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171. "I have him in that Austin category of coulda/shoulda/woulda"
In response to Reply # 167


  

          

Had Austin retained his WCE workrate peeked in WWE, he'd have been the best hands down, under any criteria. It would basically be Brett Hart level work with Hulk level marketability.

All Brock needs is actual passion for the business and it's a wrap.

  

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KCPlayer21
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168. "Why did they bring up The Ascension just to bury them every week?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


We the children of the Light, you know what I mean?
That's why I'm hating on the darkness like Paula Deen
Cause in my hood they masked up like it's Halloween
We going hard for the Rock, but we not some fiends
- Andy Mineo

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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170. "I'm hoping they get the 3MB treatment going forward. "
In response to Reply # 168


  

          

That was some of the worst mic work I've ever seen.

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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169. "Brock seems like he buttfucks the most badass guys he can find "
In response to Reply # 0
Tue Jan-20-15 02:58 AM by Cold Truth

  

          

On some, "No homo, just making sure you know I can do it, and that you really can't do a damn thing about it." Just scary..

Just a man among boys out there.

  

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pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
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Tue Jan-20-15 11:51 AM

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185. "lol"
In response to Reply # 169


  

          

>On some, "No homo, just making sure you know I can do it, and
>that you really can't do a damn thing about it." Just scary..
>
>Just a man among boys out there.

  

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adam
Member since Jul 15th 2006
2188 posts
Tue Jan-20-15 03:49 AM

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172. "Anyone else terrified anytime Daniel Bryan bumps?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I assume I'll get over that in time once he's been back a while, but, yeah, I can't help it. And he's playing into it really well, too. Bray's clothesline is one of my favorite moves going, and he always makes it look vicious. The way Bryan sold that clothesline tonight was just nuts. It looked brutal.

But beyond that, I'm so happy Bryan is back. I watched Smackdown last week just to see him fight, and I'll probably keep an eye on it this week to see him wrestle again. I think he's looked really great in his few matches back.

  

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Af-1
Member since Apr 22nd 2008
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Tue Jan-20-15 10:34 AM

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178. "RE: Anyone else terrified anytime Daniel Bryan bumps?"
In response to Reply # 172


  

          

Yeah, even that dive from the top to the outside made me wince a little.

-----
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pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
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183. "yeah, there was a spot where Bray didn't really catch him"
In response to Reply # 172


  

          

I was kinda holding my breath on all the big spots. I know they've gotten rid of the diving headbutt but i'm surprised the suicide dive is still in his repertoire.

  

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Af-1
Member since Apr 22nd 2008
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Tue Jan-20-15 05:37 AM

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173. "Wow, did Brock turn face?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I can see either Brock or Cena winning the match at Rumble, but then Rollins cashing in immediately and walking out with the Gold.

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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174. "They've done a great job working the angles here"
In response to Reply # 173


  

          

We have a three way with various moving parts that might be at play during the match.

Brock
Seth
Lena
The Authority
Heyman
Sting
Rowen, Ryback, Ziggler

Oh....

And Orton is still out there

Honestly, Cena is walking out the champ. I just can't call how or why.

  

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Af-1
Member since Apr 22nd 2008
3461 posts
Tue Jan-20-15 10:19 AM

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176. "RE: They've done a great job working the angles here"
In response to Reply # 174


  

          

I'm very intrigued to know where Brock's or Cena's story will take them in their roads to Mania if they're not the champions walking in. If Cena wins at the Rumble, what will they have for Brock, and conversely, if Cena loses, who will his Mania opponent be because I couldn't really even guess who he'd be paired with.

-----
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Y2Flound
Member since Aug 16th 2005
9819 posts
Tue Jan-20-15 09:49 AM

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175. "Brock has always been kind of tweenish"
In response to Reply # 173


  

          

He just beats up anyone in his way, he doesn't fall into the standard face/heel dichotomy.

  

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Af-1
Member since Apr 22nd 2008
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Tue Jan-20-15 10:21 AM

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177. "You're definitely right..."
In response to Reply # 175


  

          

but he's never walked into a ring and attacked Authority guys before - even Heyman (who has always played the 'business' angle with HHH & Steph) wasn't making any attempts to hold him back.

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Y2Flound
Member since Aug 16th 2005
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Tue Jan-20-15 10:52 AM

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180. "He's never been wrestling an authority guy on PPV either"
In response to Reply # 177


  

          

He just attacked his opponent, other people got in his way so he destroyed them too.

  

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lazyboi
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179. "Ric Flair had the black dude hold the ropes open for him...on MLK day "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


"If you wanna help us, fine. Sit down with your kids and make 'em study at night...otherwise, shoot THIS mothaf*cka!" (c) Morgan Freeman,

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
44843 posts
Tue Jan-20-15 02:10 PM

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188. "You wanna work here? "
In response to Reply # 179


  

          

  

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ZooTown74
Member since May 29th 2002
43582 posts
Tue Jan-20-15 10:48 PM

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200. "RACIST SUMMAMA BITCH I'M ON QUIT WATCHING NOW"
In response to Reply # 179


  

          

________________________________________________________________________________
Your typing ain't as "incendiary" as you think it is.

  

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Ceej
Member since Feb 16th 2006
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Tue Jan-20-15 11:16 AM

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181. "Seth is killin the weasel heel roll "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

hes great

Nash durin the Ascension "promo" was great, they.....are not.

http://i.imgur.com/vPqCzVU.jpg

  

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Y2Flound
Member since Aug 16th 2005
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Tue Jan-20-15 11:41 AM

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182. "The ascension could be great, but WWE seems to hate them"
In response to Reply # 181


  

          

They were great in the NXT, but like many NXT call ups other than Shield and Wyatts they have pretty much been ruined through terrible booking from the second they showed up.

  

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pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
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Tue Jan-20-15 11:47 AM

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184. "Seth was killing me before Cena came out"
In response to Reply # 181
Tue Jan-20-15 11:49 AM by pretentious username

  

          

he's my favorite on the roster by far. and while the Ascension hasn't done a great job themselves, they've been booked about as bad as a new tag team could possibly be booked.

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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187. "Agreed re: the Ascension. Those promos are abysmal. "
In response to Reply # 184


  

          

This whole “welcome…………… to the wasteland!” bullshit is just that” bullshit. This gimmick is incredibly dated, as opposed to being a refreshing throwback. It’s too gimmicky for this era.

They can keep the music and entrance attire, but need to drop the fucking Avatar triangle on the head and the overdone generic Mad Max promos. It doesn’t help that both guys look generic as fuck, that they struggle to deliver their, uh, promos, and even the big, menacing guy doesn’t look all that big or menacing.

Personally I think their overall shtick would still put off most fans even without these horrible booking decisions and need a significant overhaul to become anything more than another force-fed freak show.

Seth is just money though. He reminds me of Edge, on some 2.0 shit- better look, more athletic, and embodies some of the same sniveling, cowardly characteristics. I doubt he’ll ever reach Edge’s promo ability though, but he’ll probably overtake him in everything else outside of racking up tag titles.

  

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pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
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Tue Jan-20-15 02:18 PM

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189. "yeah, i think there's a way to do it "
In response to Reply # 187


  

          

that would make it a refreshing throwback and they screwed the pooch. the facepaint and shoulder pads are too cartoonish. look at rusev for example. he's a character for sure, but a much more believable one than the russian/foreign archetypes of the past.

>
>Seth is just money though. He reminds me of Edge, on some 2.0
>shit- better look, more athletic, and embodies some of the
>same sniveling, cowardly characteristics. I doubt he’ll ever
>reach Edge’s promo ability though, but he’ll probably
>overtake him in everything else outside of racking up tag
>titles.

he's improved so much on the mic. he was always good, but has become miles better than i thought he could, and i'm glad they saw that he could pull this off. i almost want to say he's better than ambrose at this point, but i might just be knocking off some points for ambrose because the writing on that bray feud was mostly garbage.

  

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Flash80
Member since Jan 03rd 2007
6953 posts
Tue Jan-20-15 04:14 PM

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190. "hey yo, can we talk abt the de-evolution of the big-league heel though?"
In response to Reply # 181


          

was listening to steve austin's podcast a few weeks ago and it all resonated.

can't remember the guest, but both were discussing how heels have basically been watered down and don't *CHEAT* anymore. specifically no more eye gouges, no grabbing the ropes doing an abdominal stretch, no reverse mule kick to the balls, etc etc cheap shots.

anecdotally austin said when he was backstage at a tv or ppv taping... he gave cesaro a suggestion to draw heat, but cesaro told him that he'd get in trouble with wwe brass if he were to do it.

the cumulative ring-psychology effect is a lack of, well, heat. "i need a reason to make me hate you as a heel...and i'm just not getting that." (paraphrasing)

JR and jericho spoke on this too.

  

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pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
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Tue Jan-20-15 04:59 PM

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191. "after watching a bunch of old stuff on the network, i agree"
In response to Reply # 190


  

          

not only is that stuff great for cheap heat, it makes the role of the heel announcer much better. when they defend stuff like that it's hilarious. i think it was overused a bit back then though because even faces did that shit. For instance, I've come to the conclusion that Hogan was a heel his entire career with all the back rakes and eye gouges he used. he was out of control and no one reined him

  

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Ceej
Member since Feb 16th 2006
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192. "I love a good back rake "
In response to Reply # 191


  

          

http://i.imgur.com/vPqCzVU.jpg

  

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pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
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Tue Jan-20-15 05:04 PM

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193. "one of my favorite things is shawn michaels' hair pull"
In response to Reply # 192


  

          

*slowly lifts hand up to pull on opponent's hair while ref is in the wrong position*
*ref walks around to see if there are shenanigans*
*shawn michaels puts hand down and acts innocent*
*ref goes back to original position*
*michaels does it again*

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
44843 posts
Tue Jan-20-15 05:10 PM

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194. "I think a lot of old school psychology like that is just flat out dated...."
In response to Reply # 190


  

          

Heel’s DO NOT need to cheat to draw heat. That’s such a simplistic way of doing business that just comes across as corny and carni at this point. There are other ways to draw heat and IMO part of the problem is that guys just don’t think outside the box enough.

Randy Orton is a great example of how to work as a heel and draw heat in more subtle ways. He’s got a ‘heel’ move set, for starters. Stomping your hands, feet, legs? Heel moves. That step/scrape on the forehead? Heel moves. Crowd boos? He cups his ear and begs for more. Crowd boos? He goes into his entrance pose. Guess what? The crowd boos more when he does that shit. His slithering and creeping while he waits for his opponent to get up for an RKO? Heel shit. Some of his moves work equally well as a heel or face. His middle rope DDT, for example. He smiles ear to ear before he smashes your heroes face into the mat, the crowd heats up. They cheer their ass off when he’s a face. His snap body slam sucks all the heat out of a comeback for a baby face, or serves as a desperation move he pulls out of his ass when he’s a face.

That’s good psychology. When you have to resort to the most overt methods like eye gouging and things of that nature in this day and age, you’re character doesn’t put off enough of a heel vibe on it’s own to get people to care to begin with and THAT’S the issue.
Cesaro is a bad example for Austin to use, because the people do NOT want to boo him, and that’s because he’s an absolute badass in the ring. The issue is Vince and Co not wanting to make him a babyface when the people were fucking demanding it, though not as fervently as Bryan. He wrestles like a god damned superhero and people dig it, suckas.

One thing Austin and Ross and everyone else who harps on this is forgetting is that this is a different audience. Today’s audience is generally smarter than those of years past, and so guys who can go get rewarded with acknowledgment that yeah, you’re dope. Ross, for example, stays bitching about Bray not being a heel, except… Bray is a fucking heel, and not because we’re told he is. He’s basically a creepy cult leader, shows up and attacks people without provocation, and even his finisher is smarmy as fuck. He just had a really good gimmick, a dope ass entrance with a great song, and can flat out go in that ring. Today’s audience will reward all of that by playing along and telling you how awesome it is. That said, psychology is all about knowing your audience, and it doesn’t seem like Ross or Austin understand this audience. Frankly, Austin is the biggest reason for this next to the NWO. It wasn’t just that they were “cool”, it was that the audience shifted.

We live in an era where Tony Soprano, Don Draper, Heisenberg, and other less than savory characters are the central figures in our television shows. Antiheroes like Sawyer (Lost) are now commonplace. The audience has shifted, and the characters have shifted along with them.

Kayfabe is dead, as it should be, because pushing to make people believe that this is all real only results in a roll of the eyes to most people. Within that, however, there must be continuity and a commitment to present the show as realistic as possible so that we’re able to suspend disbelief.

That’s where a team like The Ascension got the psychology right by shitting on legends (the Hawk crack notwithstanding), but WWE fucked it up by having them beat up jabronis in the process. Had they cut that promo after kicking the living shit out of the Usos, attacking Bradshaw at the announce table, and taking out Los Matadores back stage or some shit, they’d have nuclear heat already. The in-ring cheating tricks are good and well in limited doses but it would be nothing more than a band-aid on a knife wound because the big issue here is WWE overly scripts everything and does so in ways that just plain don’t work.

Wade Barret’s new habit of beating the piss out of his opponent after the match is great. Having him lose to Sin fucking Cara in a non-title match? Fucking dumb. Let him lose a non-title match to a believable threat, and let him lose in a way that makes sense. So, his own arrogance leads to a loss or whatever and he flips out. Now he’s not only a maniac, he’s only got himself to blame for his loss to begin with. More reason to hate him. There are plenty of ways to generate good, solid heat without resorting to cheating to do it. IMO that’s the cheapest possible way to generate heat and that heat, those boos, that hatred really stems from personal traits embodied by a character in contrast to the crowd’s love for the babyface. Cesaro should have Kane’s slot in The Authority and he’d be over like crazy as a heel right now even with the giant swing. If you want people to boo the giant swing, ut Daniel Bryan or Dean Ambrose or Dolph Ziggler in the swing after beating his ass, grab the mic, and tell the crowd to cheer while he destroys their hero. Once Cesaro acknowledges how cool it is and plays to it being cool when he does it to someone the crowd positively loves, the crowd will turn on him and the move. After he hits that dope ass uppercut? Get down in his opponents face while he kisses his own biceps and slaps the poor guy in the face.

Shit like that is a thousand times more effective than back rakes and eye gouges. Those types of things should be tools in the repertoire, but those things won’t fit the problem with heels not getting heat in WWE.

  

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pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
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Tue Jan-20-15 07:24 PM

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195. "I agree, but not everyone can be Randy Orton"
In response to Reply # 194


  

          

Orton is masterful. As you mentioned, he's got all the subtleties down and his arms outstretched taunt is one of the cockiest things I've seen (which is why he's so bland as a babyface, his mannerisms make no sense). If I was coaching a guy to become a heel I'd tell him to study the dude. His only problem is when he doesn't care about a program it really shows. But when he does, he's golden.

That being said, I think there's still room for cheap heat for other guys. And I think you can do cheap heat stuff, get some boos, and then give the crowd a taunt and an IDGAF look and get more boos.

>Cesaro is a bad example for Austin to use, because the people
>do NOT want to boo him, and that’s because he’s an
>absolute badass in the ring. The issue is Vince and Co not
>wanting to make him a babyface when the people were fucking
>demanding it, though not as fervently as Bryan. He wrestles
>like a god damned superhero and people dig it, suckas.
>

True, but given that they kept him a heel when he shouldn't have been, they needed to do something else to get heat. Maybe not eye gouges and such, but something. They never did that, they just gave him a robe, paired him with Heyman (while not doing anything with that pairing), and took away his spin when it had quickly become the most popular move in the company.

>One thing Austin and Ross and everyone else who harps on this
>is forgetting is that this is a different audience. Today’s
>audience is generally smarter than those of years past,

eh, they're smarter, but they still generally boo when someone gets in a crotch shot, cause they know that's what you're supposed to do.

Ross, for example, stays bitching about Bray
>not being a heel, except… Bray is a fucking heel, and not
>because we’re told he is.

I disagree with Ross here too (he has some weird opinions on heels from what I've gathered) but in the overall picture I think there's room for cheap heat tactics.

It comes down to this: I kinda agree with you when you said kayfabe was dead and I kinda agree with Vince when he (supposedly) said there are no faces and heels, people are cheering for who they want. That's not entirely true, but it has an air of truth. I think they should be making clear distinctions between faces, tweens, and heels and then we can decide whether we want to boo or cheer them.

Look at Rusev for instance. He's supposed to be a heel. Except the past 6 months he hasn't even made many derogatory comments about America, he's just said he loves his country and then American wrestlers have taken issue with him for some odd reason. Then the American wrestlers (who are supposed to be faces) bully him for a few weeks and promptly get beat. None of it makes any sense, yet they think their smarter audience doesn't notice. Granted, there are still a lot of USA chants (ugh). But still, it's pretty glaring.

>Shit like that is a thousand times more effective than back
>rakes and eye gouges. Those types of things should be tools in
>the repertoire, but those things won’t fit the problem with
>heels not getting heat in WWE.

true, I just think it's an easy fix for some guys who aren't getting much heat. As you said, it should be a tool in their repertoire. I think the fact that it NEVER happens anymore is more stupid than making every heel do it.

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Wed Jan-21-15 12:13 PM

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203. "Agree completely on Orton, and that's why I used him"
In response to Reply # 195


  

          

I just think the hallowed likes of Ross and Austin should be screaming for better character work, not bringing back low common denominator gimmicks. I just think that approach is terribly misguided and disagree completely that the loss of those tactics represents‘devolution’ of the modern heel, as I view those things as a lower form of the art.

You hit the nail on the head about Orton though, and that’s why he was my example. They should be pointing to the last decade of Orton, Edge, Jericho and Punk and asking why we’re not getting more of that sort of mojo throughout today’s roster (coughSETHcough). They all did their best work in very different ways and each were masterful during stretches as heels, and none of them really relied on the cheap shots Ross and Austin keep clamoring for. It all boiled down to character work and promos. Edge didn’t just cheat, he labeled himself the Ultimate Opportunist. He also branded himself as Rated R, which made him a heel whether or not he ever cheated. So to that end, my overarching point is that the path to creating great heels that people love to hate lies in overall character work, not just breaking rules.
***One thing I’ll say about nutt shots is that it’s the sort of thing that should really be used in limited doses and/or utilized as a gimmick specific to one character (Chyna damn near added 2 levels to her status using it).

I think cheap heat tactics are fine for, say Adam Rose. Fandango. Gives them a little bit of an edge as undercard talent. Guys like Cesaro, Wyatt, etc shouldn’t be fucking with it though. Top guys of yesteryear benefitted from such tactics, but it doesn’t really fit the mold of modern heels.

Far as Orton, he’s one of the best heels in the last thirty years and I agree everyone can’t be him. I also agree that it’s crystal clear when he doesn’t like the program. I differ in that I think he works just fine as a face so long as they cast him in that anti-hero role. He’s always been at his most over when he’s a heel who hasn’t quite turned face but beats the shit out of other heels. That’s another issue I have with Ross, he’s always crying about the ‘tweener’ and how they don’t draw money, damnit! The antihero though? Yeah, there’s money in that. See: Austin, Steve.

Steve was never- EVER- a “babyface”. Dude was getting cheered for handing out Stunners to women. It doesn’t matter who he beats up, or why, because crowds love his ‘I do what I want and I’ll whoop your ass if you try and stop me’ demeanor. It took aligning with an evil Vince and beating the shit out of The Rock with a chair to get fans to boo him, and even then… it wasn’t nuclear heat like HollywoodHogan got. He was certainly the “good guy” insomuch as pro wrestling yin-yang goes, but hardly a ‘babyface’. He was a grade-A Antihero. Orton is best cast in a similar vein, and while he lacks the charisma, promos, and marketability of an Austin like everyone else, he always gets his biggest pops in those phases.

This also goes back to my take on Bryan joining the Wyatts last year, because that whole story was some Stockholm Syndrome shit, hardly heel work, regardless of what WWE officials wanted it to be or how fans perceived it.

I agree that there are shades of gray between my stance and Vince’s in that people still generally fall in line with the face/heel dynamic, but my point about a smarter audience is more that crowds nowadays will reward a great performance much more consistently than they did in years past. Wyatt would get booed out the building twenty-five years ago because the audience generally adhered much more to a traditional good/evil dynamic. Today’s crowd will still react to heels and faces, but great heels get positive reactions from guys like us because we ‘get it’ in a way others do not, and despite Vince & co thinking we’re some small minority, we make up a bigger portion of these crowds than they want to admit.

  

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pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
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Wed Jan-21-15 02:06 PM

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204. "re: nut shots"
In response to Reply # 203


  

          

(Which is a subject line I never thought I'd write) I've watched only a couple episodes of TNA, and on one episode there were 3 segments IN A ROW that ended with a nut shot. So yeah, limited doses for all that stuff is better. And I agree on Orton as the anti-hero being good. I suspect that's how they'll treat him when he comes back, but whatever he was going for before he aligned with the Authority was what I meant when I said he didn't work as a face. The world is more complex and the audience is smarter so there should be more tweeners to reflect that, while not going full Attitude Era where literally everyone is an anti-hero. Even for faces, there's gotta be something that makes them tick. They teased Cena losing his mind because of Wyatt. Why not run with that a bit? It makes sense given who Wyatt is and wouldn't do nearly as much damage to Cena's image as they think.

>
>I think cheap heat tactics are fine for, say Adam Rose.
>Fandango. Gives them a little bit of an edge as undercard
>talent. Guys like Cesaro, Wyatt, etc shouldn’t be fucking
>with it though. Top guys of yesteryear benefitted from such
>tactics, but it doesn’t really fit the mold of modern heels.

Yeah, that's kinda what I meant. There's so many characters lost in the shuffle who have no real personality and cheap heat would help them a little bit.

>I agree that there are shades of gray between my stance and
>Vince’s in that people still generally fall in line with the
>face/heel dynamic, but my point about a smarter audience is
>more that crowds nowadays will reward a great performance much
>more consistently than they did in years past. Wyatt would get
>booed out the building twenty-five years ago recluse the
>audience generally adhered much more to a traditional
>good/evil dynamic. Today’s crowd will still react to heels
>and faces, but great heels get positive reactions from guys
>like us because we ‘get it’ in a way others do not, and
>despite Vince & co thinking we’re some small minority, we
>make up a bigger portion of these crowds than they want to
>admit.
>

It just boggles my mind how they won't let anything happen organically until it reaches a breaking point where they don't have a choice. "Bryan is getting over, how about not putting him in the rumble at all." (He just confirmed Sheamus was supposed to be his WM 30 opponent... yikes) "Cesaro is getting over? Let's take away what people like about him and make him blander." I suspect Ambrose is getting the same treatment, but I won't freak out till I see what they have planned for him at Wrestlemania. Meanwhile, you can feel audiences starting to resist Reigns' push, yet he's still shoved down our throats.

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Wed Jan-21-15 02:41 PM

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205. "It’s like they based Reigns character Dwayne’s character in the Toot..."
In response to Reply # 204
Wed Jan-21-15 02:45 PM by Cold Truth

  

          

**Tooth Fairy

Seems like a byproduct Vince being determined to stick it to the IWC or something. He’s clearly a guy who could realistically take that Cena role and do well, but they’ve stripped him of the ‘Big Homie’ aura that made him special to begin with. Shit I remember sitting there wishing I had a dude like that for an older brother or cousin while growing up or some shit, because he was the element of The Shield that really struck fear in the hearts of their foes. He was the dude you’d want to call if you needed backup in a brawl, hands down. Shit, even if you're winning, he was Insurance Policy status. Believe that. At least, that was how *eye* connected to the character.

Now? I’d call Ambrose because win or lose he’d make that shit so chaotic your enemies would think twice next time and I’d call Reigns if I needed a fucking babysitter or a hunky maid in 15 years to keep my middle aged wife aroused so she could fantasize about him when she fucks me while I fantasize about Naomi. (jokes!)

Meanwhile, Daniel Bryan goes out there with the balls of a Greek god looking like the boss of the Geek Squad (Bars!). He kicks the living shit out of guys and cuts promos with conviction and rage in his face. Reigns eyefucks the camera on some Dexter St. Jock steeze after every line of his promos. I just. Don’t. Fucking. Get it.

In all seriousness the writing for Reigns is either a sign of Vince finally going senile or a sign of Vince being the ultimate heel, screwing the pooch on his next potential crossover megastar as a way to tell smarks to go fuck themselves.

  

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magilla vanilla
Member since Sep 13th 2002
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Tue Jan-20-15 09:04 PM

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196. "The problem isn't the heels, it's the faces."
In response to Reply # 190


  

          

The faces in WWE are just as likely to attack their opponents from behind, gang up on a heel, steal a win, call a woman some variation of a bitch, etc. as a heel is. The face's ultimate goal isn't to be a hero anymore, it's to be "cool." That's why Sami Zayn's title chase in NXT was so great. It was an old school face run, done well.

And usually the heels are the only ones talking logically.

---------------------------------
Photo zine(some images NSFW): http://bit.ly/USaSPhoto

"This (and every, actually) conversation needs more Chesterton and less Mike Francesa." - Walleye

  

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pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
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Tue Jan-20-15 09:31 PM

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197. "RE: The problem isn't the heels, it's the faces."
In response to Reply # 196


  

          


>
>And usually the heels are the only ones talking logically.

Seriously. Everytime the Authority says "See what happened when we left, everything fell to shit" I yell at the TV "They're right. Listen to them!"

  

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Y2Flound
Member since Aug 16th 2005
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Tue Jan-20-15 09:52 PM

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198. "nWo and Attitude era were great but have a negative impact on today real..."
In response to Reply # 196
Tue Jan-20-15 09:52 PM by Y2Flound

  

          

Not blaming today for them, but if we view this as a major problem we have to look to that era when everything changed of what we expect from good guys and bad guys, especially once nWO was basically a face faction acting like a heel.

  

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Tiger Woods
Member since Feb 15th 2004
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Tue Jan-20-15 09:57 PM

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199. "The standard set by that era's guys is laughably unfair today"
In response to Reply # 198


  

          

Guys like, say, Nash for instance will drone on about talent making their own responsibilities and cutting authentic promos...

Dude everything is so blatantly micromanaged now that the boys can't even fart without running it by somebody lest they risk being jobbed out for a month.

  

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Y2Flound
Member since Aug 16th 2005
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Wed Jan-21-15 07:23 AM

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202. "No different than any form of "in my day we did this" that ppl love"
In response to Reply # 199


  

          

"In my day we worked at McDonalds during the summer and paid for college that way"

"In my day we took women to dinner and a movie and brought flowers on the first date"

"In my day we didn't listen to what our bosses said and just wrestled how we want"

Well none of those things are the norm in todays world, some are flat out impossible, move along grandpa.

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Tue Jan-20-15 01:54 PM

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186. "Yo….. Dudley’s rumored to be in the rumble"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

According to PWInsider.com, former TNA Champion Bully Ray, and his partner, former WWE and TNA Tag Team Champion Devon, may have recently been in talks with WWE.

As a result, it’s being rumored the two could potentially be surprise entrants in the Royal Rumble match on Sunday night, however that has yet to be confirmed.

Over the course of the past year, it has been speculated that Bully Ray and/or Devon could end up as trainers down in NXT, but no further update has been provided on that possibility.

**************



I hope they get in a good 6 months to a year as a full time tag team before heading to their eventual status as agents or trainers or whatever. They can still go and that would give us a nice little tag team scene for a minute.

Usos, Gold & Star have been pretty much it on the tag scene for too long now, though the recent additions of Cesaro & Kidd and New Day (hopefully they get a New Name with a new gimmick to boot , but I doubt it) might help that along. The Dudley’s could supercharge that scene though.

The Ascension are fucking terrible, terrible, terrible, holy shit are they awful on the mic.

Also, word is Calisto is due to be called up to the main roster. I hope the Lucha Dragons get in a good run because we could have a full fledged reneassaince with them in the mix. Of course, Los Matadores would also need a decent gimmick and not the quasi racist coonery Vince still jerks off to in 2015, but I digress. They actually have a deep crop of workers in the division and they could do some great things if they (ahem: Vince) put in some effort. The Usos and Gold/Star make for tremendously marketable teams to lead the pack, but I can’t help but feel like Vince will fuck off a perfect set of circumstances to rebuild this division.

Oh yeah, I guess you can throw the wack ass Ascension into the mix too.

  

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cereffusion
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206. "last year it was gonna be Sting and AJ Styles. "
In response to Reply # 186


  

          

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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207. "They weren't WWE alumni"
In response to Reply # 206


  

          

I'd put much more stock in this one.

  

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Af-1
Member since Apr 22nd 2008
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Wed Jan-21-15 07:23 AM

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201. "I'm sure everyone's heard about this (HHH and the crying kid)..."
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Jan-21-15 07:23 AM by Af-1

  

          

but I really wanted to post it as I thought HHH did the coolest thing:

http://www.lordsofpain.net/news/wwe/Photos_Triple_H_Breaks_Character_After_Making_Young_Fan_Cry_at_RAW_Fan_Goes_Backstage.html

-----
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cereffusion
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208. "aren't all cena fans perpetually crying"
In response to Reply # 201


  

          

?

  

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lazyboi
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Fri Jan-23-15 01:28 PM

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214. "he made it to good morning america lol"
In response to Reply # 201


  

          


"If you wanna help us, fine. Sit down with your kids and make 'em study at night...otherwise, shoot THIS mothaf*cka!" (c) Morgan Freeman,

  

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lazyboi
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215. "sounds like the kid was actually a Triple H fan"
In response to Reply # 214


  

          


"If you wanna help us, fine. Sit down with your kids and make 'em study at night...otherwise, shoot THIS mothaf*cka!" (c) Morgan Freeman,

  

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lazyboi
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209. "no mtter the dire situation, cena is ALWAYS smiling and"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

happy go lucky. fighting to get 3 guys their jobs back...about to lose his title shot, he comes out, saluting and running and.....damn. i'm no cena hater, but wtf?

as a contrast, i'd offer u dustin's demeanor when he was trying to get cody's job back


"If you wanna help us, fine. Sit down with your kids and make 'em study at night...otherwise, shoot THIS mothaf*cka!" (c) Morgan Freeman,

  

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jimaveli
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Wed Jan-21-15 11:19 PM

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210. "RE: selling the whole time..."
In response to Reply # 209


  

          

>happy go lucky. fighting to get 3 guys their jobs
>back...about to lose his title shot, he comes out, saluting
>and running and.....damn. i'm no cena hater, but wtf?
>
>as a contrast, i'd offer u dustin's demeanor when he was
>trying to get cody's job back
>
>
>"If you wanna help us, fine. Sit down with your kids and make
>'em study at night...otherwise, shoot THIS mothaf*cka!" (c)
>Morgan Freeman,

Aka selling the whole story in the way that your character SHOULD be acting..the whole time...silly shit like that. Aka selling in wrestling is sooooo much more than how you react to eating a move being done on you. Best days Shawn is grand for instance. Sure, he treats every big move he gets hit with like attempted murder too, but he sells the story while he's telling it. Like...at Mania 25, he was TOTALLY OKAY with the count-out win he almost got on Taker. As it was about to happen, he sold it like he 'realized' it and 'decided' right then that he'd take it. Stuff like that...

  

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lazyboi
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Fri Jan-23-15 11:32 AM

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211. "rosenberg, taz, josh matthews, jim ross, colt all got into it on twitter"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

haha

the hardest his was josh matthews telling jim ross to just "go away"
rosenberg talked about wreslters doing podcasts
colt replied, taz replied in a smart aleck way
(actually rosen, was probably talking about piper's i can't listen to piper's)
rosen snapped back at those two then calemd down
josh defnded taz...but then shent a shot to jim ross.



"If you wanna help us, fine. Sit down with your kids and make 'em study at night...otherwise, shoot THIS mothaf*cka!" (c) Morgan Freeman,

  

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Oak27
Member since Apr 17th 2005
13192 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 12:50 PM

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212. "Matthews shot at Ross wasn't related to the Rosenberg tweet though"
In response to Reply # 211


  

          

Ross said something about how UFC won this past Sunday, and then Matthews tweeted that people over 60 should just go away or something to that affect. Not sure what Matthews issue with Ross is.

And Rosenberg is right. We don't need every wrestler having their own podcast. We eventually just have them all doing the same rotation of wrestler iterviews. Piper's is HORRIBLE. Austin and Jericho's are great, but I really only care about the interview and not their "here's what I've been up to" bits.

  

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lazyboi
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Fri Jan-23-15 01:26 PM

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213. "didn't say it was. but they all were in the same time frame"
In response to Reply # 212
Fri Jan-23-15 01:27 PM by lazyboi

  

          

it was just funny that as soon as josh defended taz......the next tweet was a shot at jr lol

man, piper be babbling, snorting, coughing, mumbling, sleeping. like wtf?!?!

"If you wanna help us, fine. Sit down with your kids and make 'em study at night...otherwise, shoot THIS mothaf*cka!" (c) Morgan Freeman,

  

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Oak27
Member since Apr 17th 2005
13192 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 01:30 PM

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216. "Just poor production quality all around"
In response to Reply # 213


  

          

  

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lazyboi
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Fri Jan-23-15 02:59 PM

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217. "u ever heard taz's first podcast on blogtalk radio? "
In response to Reply # 216


  

          


"If you wanna help us, fine. Sit down with your kids and make 'em study at night...otherwise, shoot THIS mothaf*cka!" (c) Morgan Freeman,

  

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Oak27
Member since Apr 17th 2005
13192 posts
Fri Jan-23-15 03:23 PM

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219. "No I was never a big Tazz (the announcer) fan so I didn't bother"
In response to Reply # 217


  

          

Where does it rank among the rest of them?

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
44843 posts
Sun Jan-25-15 02:08 PM

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223. "He speaks the way I'd imagine New Jersey lunch lady"
In response to Reply # 217


  

          

Whenever he talks I just picture a beastly lunch lady smoking a cigarette while she slops food on some poor kids plate.

  

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lazyboi
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Fri Jan-23-15 02:59 PM

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218. "Jim Ross calling Roman Reigns picking up the mic hahaha LINK"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://youtu.be/iW1W7StCbqk

"If you wanna help us, fine. Sit down with your kids and make 'em study at night...otherwise, shoot THIS mothaf*cka!" (c) Morgan Freeman,

  

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Buck
Member since Feb 15th 2005
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Fri Jan-23-15 04:02 PM

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220. "Perfect."
In response to Reply # 218


  

          

  

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jimaveli
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Sun Jan-25-15 08:14 AM

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221. "RE: The Rock is in Philly"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Hmm....messing with Rusev? Rock vs Brock at mania? Hmm...

>because I got a feeling we may need a new post after this
>PPV.....
>
>
>Tonights Card
>
>Dolph Ziggler vs. Luke Harper in a Ladder Match for the
>Intercontinental Championship
>
>The Usos vs. The Miz and Damien Mizdow for the WWE Tag Team
>Championships
>
>Kane vs. Ryback in a Chairs Match
>
>AJ Lee vs. Nikki Bella for the WWE Divas Championship
>
>Erick Rowan vs. The Big Show in a Steel Stairs Match
>
>Jack Swagger vs. Rusev for the United States Championship
>
>Bray Wyatt vs. Dean Ambrose in a Tables Ladders Chairs Match
>
>John Cena vs. Seth Rollins in a Tables Match
>
>
>
>We the children of the Light, you know what I mean?
>That's why I'm hating on the darkness like Paula Deen
>Cause in my hood they masked up like it's Halloween
>We going hard for the Rock, but we not some fiends
>- Andy Mineo

  

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QBoogie
Member since Jun 05th 2002
5885 posts
Sun Jan-25-15 10:29 AM

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222. "The rumble is tonight !!!"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Geeked, almost even called out of work!

  

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im_freshhh
Member since Oct 26th 2007
1675 posts
Sun Jan-25-15 03:02 PM

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224. "while i think Brock/Reigns is pretty much a lock at this point,"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

i think it would be dope to have Brock win by pinning Cena, then Rollins cash in & leave with the belt,
then have Orton come back & win the rumble to set up Orton vs. Rollins at Mania.
Probably not the best draw for Mania but i think it'd make more sense than Brock/Reigns & the Rollins/Orton feud is gonna be gold!

_________________________________________________________________________________

I'm a simple man. I like pretty, dark haired women and breakfast foods.
IG/Twitter: @sammiie_b

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
85075 posts
Sun Jan-25-15 03:09 PM

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225. "hope reigns doesn't win tonight."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

i don't mind if he's in the title match at WM some way. but im really not trying to see him get that RR win tonight.

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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jimaveli
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Sun Jan-25-15 06:48 PM

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226. "RE: hope reigns doesn't win tonight."
In response to Reply # 225


  

          

>i don't mind if he's in the title match at WM some way. but
>im really not trying to see him get that RR win tonight.

It is crazy that last year Reigns had a dope run and folks weren't pleased when Bootista took him out. Now there's a mountain of energy against the win a year later. And I don't disagree. But that's cuz my inner wrestling nerd pushes me toward wanting them to go back to Daniel Bryan now that he's able-bodied again.

  

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Af-1
Member since Apr 22nd 2008
3461 posts
Mon Jan-26-15 04:48 AM

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227. "The Rock appearance was interesting..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

It's like they anticipated the bad/mixed reaction and thought 'how can we get people back on side?'

Naturally surprised by the short time Bryan and Ziggler were in there for as well.

-----
Check me out, say hi...
Visit our soul/jazz/funk internet radio station, Blue-in-Green:RADIO: http://www.blueingreenradio.com/
https://www.mixcloud.com/Blue_in_Green_Sessions/
http://soundcloud.com/user305437292

  

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