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>>Instead he got the first coach fired within the first two
>>weeks,
>
>Stop this madness. That wasnt working, we all know it, and
>hes done absolutely zero to redeem himself in the wake of his
>firing. Hes an assistant, not a head coach.
>
I know, I said here before his first regular-season game in L.A. after they hired him that it wasn't gonna work.
Kobe still was the catalyst at that time to make in a happen in a period of a season where a coaching change is usually ill-advised plus they didn't have the next guy picked yet.
>>disrespected the second one publicly
>
>Nobody likes Pringles. He sucks and hasnt disproved that
>since he got here. Unprofessional of Kobe? Sure. It didnt
>contribute to anything though, because Pringles has been
>shitty from day one.
>
>Youre batting .000 on the coaching front, and I think you
>know that already.
>
I don't like D'Antoni either, however if your team leader publicly undermines the guy's authority it again turns a bad situation worse.
All this late-career myth-making about Kobe Bryant being a leader because he 'wants to win so bad' is nonsense.
This dude is still sabotaging that goal with his selfishness.
> >alienated the
>>new/younger first-team All-NBA center who needed coddling to
>>be convinced to stay to bridge the gap into the next Laker
>>era
>
>Yes, he definitely could have done more to endear himself to
>Dwight. In retrospect, however, the amount of coddling Dwight
>seemed to require was unreasonable, and theres plenty of
>blame to spread around on that end.
>
>You get half a point for this one.
>
>>deciding he needed to be the primary ballhandler to make
>>his new Hall-of-Fame-PG (when healthy) a catch-and-shoot-guy
>>18 years into his career in an offense/coaching-system he
>was
>>far more familiar with than Kobe,
>
>Half a point here, because youre right, but Nash wasnt all
>that healthy last year either. When Healthy is a major
>caveat. Nash was out early on for a significant stretch, and
>its unreasonable to just hand him the keys after that.
>
Nash knows what offense they're running once Pringles was there, he also knows how to play point guard at a level that got him to nearly 40 with Hall of Fame credentials by that point.
For the sake of everyone on the court, if Steve Nash is in the lineup he needs to be playing point guard otherwise you're actively working against your team's strengths.
>> made sure everyone in the
>>media knew it was 'my team' due to his
>>ego/insecurities/narcissim,
>
>Agreed and I absolutely loathe this about him.
>
>>didn't shoot much on nights he
>>decided to pass a lot or didn't pass a lot on nights he
>>decided to shoot a lot and finally burned his own body out
>>playing so many minutes (while telling the coach he'd
>decided
>>when he comes out) thus ending perhaps his career but at
>least
>>any shot to win a playoff series.
>
>I think his bullheaded, stubborn ways were a major contributor
>to his injury.
>
>Funny thing though, none of what you said really evaluates the
>actual level of play of these two guys, much less Kobe.
>
It does though, it signifies a guy who as his team's focal point is proven time and time again unwilling to utilize his considerable talent in ways that make sense for the overall success of the talent around him.
In other words not only does he not make those two guys better, he actively hinders them.
Lebron or Magic win 60 games with this same team injuries and all.
Prolly MJ too, who did make some adjustments in order to win in the second half of his career (plus was just a far more efficient player and more natural leader).
Kobe had to adjust coming into the league and he's been fighting like mad against acquiescing in any way since.
>I dont think its a question that Duncan is the better team
>guy from a personality standpoint. At this point Kobe is on
>some AI shit- not throwing darts there, but thats what lead
>to his premature demise and its a perfect analog to Kobes
>mentality right now- and his refusal to adapt to a lesser role
>has hurt the team in a major way.
>
Oh I know AI was his own worst enemy with the not-going-to-the-bench thing......in other ways as well.
But he was always a more skilled and more willing passer than Kobe Bryant by miles.
And Kobe is a better jump-shooter than AI without question, however even Iverson didn't take as many low-percentage or bad shots particularly when playing alongside actual talent.
Now with Kobe's range he makes some of those but now that he's evolved into a guy that doesn't go to the basket or pick up easy points on the line like other great scorers, he is basically a two-guard who last year: kept the basketball out of Hall of Fame point guard's hands while shooting 25 jumpers a night with the majority being 'tough shots' while also not taking into account the advantages they had most nights down low.
>Still his actual on-court play was better than all but a few
>last year and had a season comparable to his best. Duncan
>cannot boast that. He rebounded and assisted on par with his
>prime years and scored 2 points above his career average.
>
>Further?
>
>-Dwight was not producing night in and night out, and its
>high time people pick a side. He was either injured and had an
>acceptable excuse for why he couldnt play like his old self,
>or he was perfectly fine and should have had more of the
>offense run through him despite the obvious limitations he had
>due to recovering on the clock, which in fact removes the
>injury excuse. Its either or and you cannot have your cake
>and eat it too there.
>
Oh I've always hated Dwight's ugly-ass-game, dislike his personality as much as any in the league.
He was banged up last year but really he doesn't look all that different this year. That athleticism that his game was pretty much solely based on is at least in part gone for good.
However he does at least seem reasonably happy to be playing basketball this season and is playing better (even if it's not '09 Dwight) and his team is having far more success as well despite actually having less expectations on paper going in then the '12/'13 Lakers did.
>-Pau had injury problems of his own, and when he was healthy
>and on the floor, anyone with eyes knows Pringles was far and
>away the biggest problem there.
>
D'Antoni has been disrespectful and misusing of Gasol from the jump, agreed.
>-Nash has been covered.
>
>-Lets not pretend the injury bug didnt decimate the entire
>roster throughout the year, in more significant ways than it
>did to most other teams. They also lost their owner.
>
Dr Buss is the greatest owner ever but his death didn't keep that team from performing last season.
You could say that his death is going to be a cross to bear after last season or in a way due to his illness/reduced-active-role you could even say they had lost him before last year.
But the Buss Memorial was actually a catalyst for Howard buying in a little bit and playing slightly better than they had been.
>The second you wash yourself of your agenda, youll see a more
>nuanced situation and the truth that Kobe actually played at
>an extremely high level, more so than Duncan despite Duncans
>approach and temperament being far better and more conducive
>to winning WHILE being in a more stable environment with a
>long tenured coach who commanded the respect of everyone.
>
I disagree.
Tim Duncan anchors their entire defense, sets the example for the rest of his teammates and offensively was shockingly just about as good or better than he ever was outside of him now being a 70 game/30-minute-guy compared to the 82 game/39-41 area during his early back-to-back MVP years.
And it's tough to fault him for being in the more stable environment when he himself fostering that environment is the #1 reason for its stability to begin with, tho I guess in fairness coming into the league as a grown man then being shown the way by David Robinson was a better model to follow than being a high-school kid with a Jordan fixation looking at Shaq.
>So, all things considered, Kobe might be a dick and might have
>had ego issues that hurt his team, but in terms of their
>individual play, Kobe was still the better player than Duncan.
Kobe's entire season, while certainly impressive at this stage in his career, really once things broke bad often felt like an effort to validate his individual play and be absolved of any responsibility for the failings of its collective.
He also takes too many shots as well as too many bad shots, isn't particularly great strong in assists considering the amount of time he has the ball or gets tunnel-visioned into one role or the other and at this stage of his career really makes no attempt to mask his lack of interest in playing defense.
A great big man like Duncan used to facilitate the offense of a ball-movement-driven team on one end and anchor D on another is inherently more valuable to a basketball team than a great two-guard almost every time anyway.
If you swapped them for each other, think the Spurs win anywhere near the total they did or the Lakers don't manage to win more than 45?
I don't.
Kobe's performance last season was pretty damn good probably even close to great, had the gaudy numbers and from watching both it would be hard to say Kobe wasn't more impressive.
But part of that is due to the degree of difficulty, something you look for in wanting to be entertained but something you try your best to avoid wherever possible while playing basketball.
I'm not sure who I would have rather had last season as the centerpiece of my team last season rather than Tim Duncan other than Lebron James.
>There are two different conversations here, though they
>overlap somewhat. Kobe was on a beastly stretch when he went
>down that made it look like there might be a glimmer of hope
>on the horizon. I dont see how anyone can say he wasnt
>playing at an extremely high level at the time with a straight
>face.
>
I'm glad I never said that. Just said he wasn't as good as Duncan. Last year or for his career.
And they made a bit of a run in April to get into the bottom-seed of the playoffs but I didn't see anything to indicate they could actually win a series in the 7 or 8 slot with or without Kobe (though obviously I don't think they get completely swept/obliterated the way they did if he played).
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