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Subject: "Welcome to the NBA Ben McLemore" Previous topic | Next topic
Rjcc
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"Welcome to the NBA Ben McLemore"
Sat Dec-21-13 02:15 PM by Rjcc

          

alt title: RIP Ben McLemore (Feb 11 1993 - Dec 20 2013)

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1896963-lebron-james-posterizes-poor-ben-mclemore?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=programming-national2

https://twitter.com/BleacherReport/status/414218303662350336/photo/1

http://cdn0.sbnation.com/imported_assets/1975409/131220-jamesdunk.gif


http://card.mygamercard.net/lastgame/rjcc.png

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
don't teach your kids to take charges.
Dec 21st 2013
1
not sure why this post is hidden:
May 15th 2019
2
so petty
May 15th 2019
3
damn
May 16th 2019
4
look at reply #7
May 16th 2019
5
yeah it was a crazy draft, we all know about Anthony Bennett, but's wild...
May 16th 2019
6
      This is why GMs will *always* draft young potential.
May 16th 2019
7
      whats crazy is Giannis was definitely a bit of the unknown, Kawhi was...
May 16th 2019
8
           Kawhi wasn't *nearly* the player he is today, because he couldn't shoot.
May 16th 2019
10
                I guess Pop saw it when nobody else did...
May 16th 2019
12
                Btw, how many times did you see Kawhi play at SDSU?
May 17th 2019
15
                Several. They were a top seed his sophomore year.
May 18th 2019
16
                     interesting that he was already dealing with tendinitis
May 18th 2019
17
                     "Several."? because I've been told in the past that a few tournament...
May 18th 2019
18
                          Let me check my game log of several years ago.
May 18th 2019
19
                               don't get defensive lol, I just asked because your assessment...
May 18th 2019
20
                                    lol
May 18th 2019
23
                                         This interaction is comedy....y'all need to stop. n/m
May 20th 2019
25
                btw speaking of Al-Farouq Aminu, is he not 1 of the most trash starters....
May 20th 2019
26
      It's Muhammad, but same applies
May 16th 2019
9
           right my bad lol...
May 16th 2019
11
Who the fuck is Ricky Spanish!?!?! LMAO.
May 17th 2019
13
reply #25 really got me.
May 17th 2019
14
strangely the other guys mentioned in the OP there are also bums
May 20th 2019
28
this is why tanking and the lottery shouldn't matter
May 18th 2019
21
And some guys straight up don't pan out.
May 18th 2019
22
philly's best player is the one they got with the lowest pick
May 19th 2019
24
      Embiid was No. 3 overall and Simmons was No. 1 overall
May 20th 2019
27
      ...and to Will's point...
May 20th 2019
29
      two number ones, two number threes
May 20th 2019
30
           MIN has 2 good players
May 20th 2019
31
                you're making my point for me
May 21st 2019
32
                     Nobody's arguing against the point
May 21st 2019
33
                          cool. that's why you replied to me, because my point was obvious.
May 21st 2019
34
                               Using PHL as the example negates your point
May 21st 2019
37
                                    so is my point obvious and no one is arguing it or is it negated
May 21st 2019
38
      RE: philly's best player is the one that was drafted the lowest and not....
May 21st 2019
35
           well
May 21st 2019
36

BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
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Sat Dec-21-13 03:14 PM

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1. "don't teach your kids to take charges."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

moral of this and the Seventh Woods poster.

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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ThaTruth
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2. "not sure why this post is hidden:"
In response to Reply # 0


          

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=8&topic_id=2108878&mode=full

  

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bshelly
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Wed May-15-19 06:54 PM

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3. "so petty"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God

  

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Rjcc
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Thu May-16-19 01:37 AM

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4. "damn"
In response to Reply # 2


          


www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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Rjcc
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Thu May-16-19 01:39 AM

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5. "look at reply #7"
In response to Reply # 2
Thu May-16-19 01:59 AM by Rjcc

          

which, tbh,says a lot about the 2013 draft

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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ThaTruth
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Thu May-16-19 08:59 AM

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6. "yeah it was a crazy draft, we all know about Anthony Bennett, but's wild..."
In response to Reply # 5


          

the Ben Macklemore and Shabbazz Napier all already of the league or appear to be.

Otto Porter at #3 overall has been decent but is definitely overpaid.

CJ McCollum was a steal at #10.

Its crazy that Giannis was a 15th pick just like Kawhi was in 2011. 2 of the top 4 players(top 3 according to some) in the NBA picked with the 15th pick in the draft.

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
86641 posts
Thu May-16-19 10:35 AM

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7. "This is why GMs will *always* draft young potential."
In response to Reply # 6


  

          


>Its crazy that Giannis was a 15th pick just like Kawhi was in
>2011. 2 of the top 4 players(top 3 according to some) in the
>NBA picked with the 15th pick in the draft.

The GMs always bitch about how hard it is to accurately scout young players with high potential, especially when they play overseas/play mid-major ball/play just HS/play only one season/etc.

And there are *so many* high potential draft picks who bust. So many. Way more than hit. But GMs will keep gambling every time, because the payoff when you do hit? Huge. So you go down the list of every draft, and *so many* of the head scratchers are guys who could've been the next Kawhi, the next Giannis, the next Tony Parker. They'll happily settle for the next Paskal Siakam.

Kawhi was an absolute dice roll at 15 exclusively on potential. Same for Giannis. Those teams just hit. (It helps that those teams tend to do a good job developing young guys more often than not.)

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

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ThaTruth
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8. "whats crazy is Giannis was definitely a bit of the unknown, Kawhi was..."
In response to Reply # 7


          

right here in the stats but just because the right scouts didn't see him or hype him or give him enough "stars" coming out of high school he slipped under the radar.

A lot of times the super "smart" scouts overthink shit. That's how Klay Thompson gets drafted 11th after Jimmer Frederette and in the same draft Kawhi went 4 spots later. That's how Minnesota picked TWO point guards ahead of Steph Curry in 2009.

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Thu May-16-19 12:15 PM

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10. "Kawhi wasn't *nearly* the player he is today, because he couldn't shoot."
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

Again, he shot sub-30% from 3, shot 75% from the line. Put up 16 PPG in a blah conference. He was a more aggressive rebounder than he is today, but his offense wasn't really refined at all. His most effective offense was generated by using his sheer size advantage (especially in the MWC), but he also loved settling for jump shots-- despite not being able to shoot.

He also gambled too much on defense-- it's crazy to think now that Kawhi Leonard couldn't even win Defensive Player of the Year in the fucking Mountain West, but he was far better at deflecting and using his wingspan to disrupt than he was at staying in front of a guy with discipline.

He basically had the same stats at Al-Farouq Aminu in college (but in a worse conference!). So there's a very real alternate universe where Kawhi ends up the next Aminu. Now Kawhi's a multi-time DPOY, he's shot 38% from 3 and 85% from the line *for his career.* Meanwhile, Aminu still just is who he was for the most part.

Again, to underscore my original point, this is why teams jump for the potential guy. Take a guy with great length, great athleticism, great potential... because if you can teach him how to shoot, how to handle, how to stay disciplined on defense, how to crank up his aggression on offense, then you could have the next Kawhi. If you don't, you have the next Aminu-- or worse-- but it's worth the gamble.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

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ThaTruth
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12. "I guess Pop saw it when nobody else did..."
In response to Reply # 10


          

"I think he's going to be a star. And as time goes on, he’ll be the face of the Spurs, I think. At both ends of the court, he is really a special player. And what makes me be so confident about him is that he wants it so badly. He wants to be a good player, I mean a great player. He comes early, he stays late, and he's coachable. He's just like a sponge. When you consider he's only had (two years) of college and no training camp yet, you can see that he's going to be something else."
—Gregg Popovich, in 2012, on Leonard

  

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ThaTruth
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Fri May-17-19 09:09 PM

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15. "Btw, how many times did you see Kawhi play at SDSU?"
In response to Reply # 10


          

  

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Frank Longo
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Sat May-18-19 01:17 AM

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16. "Several. They were a top seed his sophomore year."
In response to Reply # 15
Sat May-18-19 01:29 AM by Frank Longo

  

          

It wasn’t hard to know about that team if you give a shit about mid-major basketball.

Edit: if you don’t believe me, here’s an old thread detailing nicely from a couple of other people how (a) his jump in quality in the pros was unexpected and (b) his jumper required massive retooling. Anyone who even halfheartedly followed him would agree. http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=8&topic_id=2102554&mesg_id=2102554&listing_type=search#2102847

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

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Rjcc
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Sat May-18-19 03:52 AM

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17. "interesting that he was already dealing with tendinitis"
In response to Reply # 16


          


www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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ThaTruth
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Sat May-18-19 06:22 AM

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18. ""Several."? because I've been told in the past that a few tournament..."
In response to Reply # 16


          

games is not enough to form an opinion on a player

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Sat May-18-19 09:20 AM

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19. "Let me check my game log of several years ago."
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

Oh wait. I won't do that. Because I find it strange that I have to explain to Box Score Bobby that I actually watch games.

Yes, I also saw regular season games. Again, not difficult. They were ranked during the season. They played Jimmer 3 times that year. Fisher usually schedules a few good OOC games too. I don't remember all of the games I saw him play or precisely how he performed in those games. But literally *everyone* knew that, in college, Kawhi couldn't shoot. It was like knowing DeAndre Hunter defends well or Bol Bol can shoot 3s or Romeo Langford is a shameless chucker. I don't need to check individual box scores of games I've watched to confirm this, because anyone who's seen these players enough gets it.

So yeah, Pop drafted a guy who couldn't shoot. Teams have drafted players who can't shoot a lot higher than 15 too. Because, going back to the original point, they draft on potential. So Pop drafted him, because he felt he could fix his jumper and have an All-Star on his hands. And holy shit, he was right. Most people who draft a guy thinking they can fix their jumper never deliver. But Pop and Kawhi together figured it out. Praise Be.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

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ThaTruth
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Sat May-18-19 10:38 AM

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20. "don't get defensive lol, I just asked because your assessment..."
In response to Reply # 19


          

in post #10 seemed to be very definitive and I know you're primarily a Duke-ACC guy and assuming you are gainfully employed and have some semblance of a social life I was wondering how many Mountain West games did you actually see or were you just going off scouting reports and video clips.

  

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Frank Longo
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Sat May-18-19 12:35 PM

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23. "lol"
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

I've been watching >100 college games a season since 2009ish. In a perfect world, 4ish games during the week, 4ish games on weekends. More if the slates are more enticing. If I'm busy and have to miss games I want to see, I've also got a TiVo, and I like having games on while I write. It's really not hard. I just love the game. It's easy to work and date *and* watch a sport you love.

And again, Kawhi's strengths and weaknesses weren't a mystery. Even if I *had* just watched scouting videos or whatever, it'd be an easy conclusion to reach.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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25. "This interaction is comedy....y'all need to stop. n/m"
In response to Reply # 23


  

          


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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ThaTruth
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26. "btw speaking of Al-Farouq Aminu, is he not 1 of the most trash starters...."
In response to Reply # 10


          

in the league? Every time I see him on the court I constantly ask myself why is this dude in the NBA? I wondered that when he was involved in the "Chris Paul trade" and still to this day. He has improved his 3 point shooting in Portland but still doesn't really do anything well. He's an average defender at best.

  

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ErnestLee
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9. "It's Muhammad, but same applies"
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

>the Ben Macklemore and Shabbazz Napier all already of the
>league or appear to be.
>
>

---------------------------------------------------------

  

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ThaTruth
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11. "right my bad lol..."
In response to Reply # 9


          

>>the Ben Macklemore and Shabbazz Napier all already of the
>>league or appear to be.
>>
>>
>

  

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Castro
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13. "Who the fuck is Ricky Spanish!?!?! LMAO."
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

------------------
One Hundred.

  

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Reeq
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Fri May-17-19 02:04 AM

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14. "reply #25 really got me."
In response to Reply # 2


          

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=8&topic_id=2108878&mode=full#2109035

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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28. "strangely the other guys mentioned in the OP there are also bums"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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will_5198
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21. "this is why tanking and the lottery shouldn't matter"
In response to Reply # 0


          

some draft classes just suck.

--------

  

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Frank Longo
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Sat May-18-19 12:19 PM

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22. "And some guys straight up don't pan out. "
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

As many folks who watched McLemore in that post thought, McLemore was projected as a high-floor, can't-miss guard with upside... then, nothing.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

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Rjcc
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24. "philly's best player is the one they got with the lowest pick"
In response to Reply # 21


          

I feel like that's not mentioned enough

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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ConcreteCharlie
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Mon May-20-19 02:48 PM

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27. "Embiid was No. 3 overall and Simmons was No. 1 overall"
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
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Mon May-20-19 05:30 PM

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29. "...and to Will's point..."
In response to Reply # 27


  

          

We tanked for what...5 seasons...?

We got 2 players out of that.

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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Rjcc
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30. "two number ones, two number threes"
In response to Reply # 27


          

not even counting nerlens/mcw, two picks in 2013 who weren't giannis or even gobert

two guys who can't shoot from outside at all, two guys who may not have a place in the league and two really really good players.



www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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bentagain
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31. "MIN has 2 good players"
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

still can't make the playoffs

PHX, same

SAC

CHA

...I'm sure you had a point, just not sure what it was...

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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Rjcc
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32. "you're making my point for me"
In response to Reply # 31


          

going that hard at tanking only got philadelphia so far. the results themselves are the deterrent.

If minnesota had drafted *any* of the next six players taken after gorgui dieng in 2013 they'd be in better shape right now, even with the two #1s they got from cleveland being pretty much whiffs

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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bentagain
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Tue May-21-19 07:48 AM

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33. "Nobody's arguing against the point "
In response to Reply # 32


  

          

The draft is very volatile

Thanks captain obvious.

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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Rjcc
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34. "cool. that's why you replied to me, because my point was obvious."
In response to Reply # 33


          


www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
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Tue May-21-19 03:06 PM

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37. "Using PHL as the example negates your point"
In response to Reply # 34


  

          

I'm not going to relive every moment of the process for you...

...because you're probably just going to post a one line snarky comment anyway...

Being on this side of the process arch

You think a team that just completed it's 2nd straight +50W season, 2nd straight 1st round playoff W, 2 all-stars, 1 being an MVP/DPOTY candidate...

...is THE example of tanking not working...

?

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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Rjcc
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38. "so is my point obvious and no one is arguing it or is it negated"
In response to Reply # 37


          

you just flip-flopped between your own replies bro

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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Creole
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15425 posts
Tue May-21-19 02:14 PM

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35. "RE: philly's best player is the one that was drafted the lowest and not...."
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

drafted by Philly.

--- praying for peace, love, and power

  

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Rjcc
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Tue May-21-19 02:41 PM

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36. "well"
In response to Reply # 35


          


www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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