1. "Besides sampson and Walton who i didn't watch play its yao" In response to Reply # 0
He'd always have that advantage with that size. After him, I'd say Hill.
-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.
9. "Hill was a young lebron with more skills." In response to Reply # 6
-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.
18. "he wasn't a big as LeBron but everything else is fairly accurate" In response to Reply # 14 Mon Jun-03-13 01:41 PM by LegacyNS
He as fast as hell for his size. He could jump out of the gym. He developed a nice little cross over & pull up jumpshot. He could get to the hole anytime he wanted too. He could pass the ball, rebound, defend...
19. "yeah that's my point. better basketball skills then lebron" In response to Reply # 14
not comparing the athletic abilities at all.
What modern player would does he better compare to?
-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.
73. "i'm talking about style of play...not accomplishments." In response to Reply # 26
-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.
5. "Sampson had a great career despite being ahead of his time" In response to Reply # 0
the NBA wasn't ready for a Kevin Garnett type player, and that is what Sampson was....
Larry Johnson, as Grandmama, with 3 point range? Now that would have been something to see.
Walton healthy would have been interesting as well- he would have had a couple of more chips on his resume.
Grant Hill, healthy? One can only wonder...
Penny is my pick though.....he took a team with Shaq to the finals when he was essentially a kid...if he had stayed healthy he would have won a few titles.....
47. "I agree with all of this" In response to Reply # 20
As discussed in the Wade post, the list of guys who won a title without a 2nd HOFer is really short. Walton is one of those guys, the injuries hit immediately afterwards, and he only played 102 games in his age 26-30 seasons. Without the injuries, he is easily one of the 5-15 best players ever, and nobody else in this poll has that ceiling, let alone the resume to begin including them in that conversation.
49. "^Discussion over. Well said. " In response to Reply # 47
>As discussed in the Wade post, the list of guys who won a >title without a 2nd HOFer is really short. Walton is one of >those guys, the injuries hit immediately afterwards, and he >only played 102 games in his age 26-30 seasons. Without the >injuries, he is easily one of the 5-15 best players ever, and >nobody else in this poll has that ceiling, let alone the >resume to begin including them in that conversation. > >It's Walton, and it's not close.
----------------------------
O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"
can an advanced stats guy project oden's numbers over 35 minutes a game, for 80 games in 17 seasons. I'm sure they'd be glorious.
guinny?
-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.
91. "there are a lot of freak athletes in the NBA, what sets Lebron apart..." In response to Reply # 61
is his basketball skills combined with that freakish athletic ability. Hill DID have a similar skillset as a point forward that can do it all and was a pretty decent athlete in his own right just not at Lebron's level.
53. "How are the numbers not close?" In response to Reply # 40
Penny was like 21, 7, and 5 on 50% shooting. Granted, he only did it for a few years. Grant played at an elite level for a few years longer before getting hurt.
But at their peaks? The numbers were close. I thought Penny was a little more explosive, and had an outside shot to his game which was the one thing Hill was missing. Both had fantastic skills, fundamentals, and athletic ability. I thought Penny could do just a little more.
I always wished we got to see at least a few years of healthy Penny, without Shaq. Basically his injuries started the year Shaq left. His '97 playoffs against Miami gave just a glimpse of what he could do, but that was basically his last time as en elite player.
42. "Quality post, the answer is Yao, but why does his have to be yellow?" In response to Reply # 0
Yao had the most realistic shot at a title in a league without centers. The truth is they might well have beaten us had he not gotten injured that last year.
-Sig-
“Why didn’t you do this in your own god damn country?"
-All Stah's view on undocumented immigrants wanting to be treated like human beings.
93. "Sampsons downfall was coaching" In response to Reply # 48
they didn't know what to do with a 7'4" wing player- he was big enough to bang inside but he wanted to play on the wing and was capable, but Bill Fitch didn't know how to develop his system to incoporate Ralph's talent- so he mashed him in with Hakeem as a 'twin tower'.
50. "Bill Walton w/o question - he still made the 50 greatest list" In response to Reply # 0 Mon Jun-03-13 04:33 PM by vee-lover
w/a career that was cut way too short...
He earned MVP in a season where he appeared in like only 50 gms...because he was playing that much better than anyone else at the time. Had he not gotten injured, he and those Blazer teams would've been challenging Magic/Kareem Lakers throughout the 80s.
He was a great scorer around the basket He was a great great rebounder Probably would've gone down as the greatest passing center but for injuries He was just as good a shot blocker as Olajuwon He ran the floor really well
and 2nd out of the choices would be Ralph Sampson. He's the only other player on this list I think had a real chance to be an all time great had it not been for injuries. Everyone else? I didn't see it....all very good players nonetheless but I seriously doubt anyone of them were headed for all time greatness.
(Can't believe Grant Hill is leading this poll smh)
58. "Walton is hands down, no question the best player on that list" In response to Reply # 0
After that, it's a wonderful debate, especially Hill vs Hardaway.
Ralph Sampson is probably my number two guy there though.
Yao, well, I think there are a lot of other "what ifs" that are sort of inextricable from his health. I dont even think he could have been a huge minute player, the kind that plays 40+ in them offs. But he could have been an assassin in the minutes he played, absolutely.
And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.
60. "No way T-Mac or Grant would've had a better career than Ralph" In response to Reply # 59 Mon Jun-03-13 05:22 PM by vee-lover
Sampson had it not been for injuries...
Sampson was a once in a lifetime 7-4 center. He made an immediate impact on the Rockets soon as he arrived and he and Akeem went to a championship in only their 2nd and 3rd year respectively.
Before the injuries, the narrative was already being created for Grant and T-Mac. Guys w/an abundance of talent but lacked that special something that made talented players great. Ppl forget Grant, like T-Mac, couldn't get out of the 1st round for 6 yrs. either. I always questioned whether or not Grant was a true alpha dog player because his tendencies suggested differently at times.
Grant never did anything in the league besides put up nice stats on bad teams to make me think he was going to be an all time great player. (Penny was more likely to do so than Grant...and I didn't really see it in Penny)
And to have Yao ahead of Sampson is just disgusting. Yao was NEVER going to be great...NEVER. He was destined to be somewhere btw Jack sikma and Rik Smits. Greg Anthony said it best: there has never ever been a GREAT center in the history of the league who wasn't great from day 1...and Yao was good, showed potential but was far from a great player. He was never going to be the shot blocking intimidating force around the basket, was never a strong rebounder, and at times did play soft for someone 7-5.
Of the choices, it's Walton and then Sampson and then everybody else. >---------------------------- > > > >O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain" > > > > >"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..." > >(C)Keith Murray, "
67. "Nah it was mainly injuries that derailed his career..." In response to Reply # 62 Mon Jun-03-13 05:48 PM by vee-lover
> >That he might have been one of those niggas who was >just better in college than in the NBA
He got off to a strong start soon as he got to the league...unanimous ROY/averaged 20+ppg 11rpg his first few seasons in the league. I still think had he and Dream stayed together, they woulda got a chip or two. They played great together and this is when Olajuwon's game was still unpolished.
Sampson was one of the best young players in the gm pre injuries and was only going to get better (as most big men tend to do) > >He surely would have been great if not for the injuries > >But never Olajuwon or Moses Malone good or nothing like that > >Even healthy he wasn't really beasting hard like that
Yeah he wasn't on that level but remember, Hakeem wasn't the player he became back then either....and Ralph's game was much more refined than Hakeem's at that time so its safe to assume he would've gotten better...which is why I can't put the other choices in this poll ahead of him because big men have a far bigger upside to improve vs a perimeter player and I don't think T-Mac/Grant/Penny would've gotten exponentially better than they already were... >---------------------------- > > > >O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain" > > > > >"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..." > >(C)Keith Murray, "
101. "man right outta the box he was doing 22/11/2, was 7'4",athletic" In response to Reply # 62
he would have been a beast for sure.
mcgrady i dont even factor in here, really. he had nagging injuries to be sure, but had a more full career than most of the guys here. he pretty much reached his potential, he just didnt stay there. maybe that is true of hill, too. hardaway, almost, but not quite.
And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.
63. "You're right about T-Mac, sometimes I forget about him as a guy..." In response to Reply # 59
in this category because even after injuries robbed him of a lot of his athleticism he still had some productive All-Star seasons in Houston. C-Webb is kinda in that category too.
65. "And a C Webb type career is where T-Mac and Grant were more than" In response to Reply # 63 Mon Jun-03-13 05:51 PM by vee-lover
likely heading had it not been for injuries. I didn't see neither guy winning anything w/them as their team's best player. I saw too many signs that let me know they weren't really that "dude" despite their other wordly talent.
>in this category because even after injuries robbed him of a >lot of his athleticism he still had some productive All-Star >seasons in Houston. C-Webb is kinda in that category too.
74. "Nope, not really because he went to Houston and played w/Yao" In response to Reply # 70
and I'm sure you remember the series vs Dallas....
T-Mac and the Rockets go up 2-0...ON DALLAS' HOME FLOOR...and then go back to Houston and drop the next 2 at home and eventually lose the series in 6 gms. Its examples like that, and being up 2-0 against the Pistons in a best of 3-5 series and lose, that always made me suspect of T-Mac as a leader and a team's best player.
100. "You got the facts all wrong" In response to Reply # 74 Wed Jun-05-13 01:34 AM by FILF
>and I'm sure you remember the series vs Dallas.... yes, I do >T-Mac and the Rockets go up 2-0...ON DALLAS' HOME FLOOR...and >then go back to Houston and drop the next 2 at home and >eventually lose the series in 6 gms. They lost in 7....shoulda won that one if not for blowing a 4th quarter lead in GM 3.
>Its examples like that, >and being up 2-0 against the Pistons in a best of 3-5 series It was a best of 7 & T-Mac made the infamous post-game statement after they went up 3-1. .
>and lose, >that always made me suspect of T-Mac as a leader and >a team's best player. The turning point of the series was Ben Wallace taking over GM 5 & Billups demolishing Jacque Vaughn (yeah, he was the starting PG) in GM 6/7. The fact is that series is no different than Kobe losing the the Suns in '07 after being up 3-1.
dula dibiasi Member since Apr 05th 2004 21925 posts
Tue Jun-04-13 09:12 PM
99. "good lord. do you ppl know anything abt bill walton's career?" In response to Reply # 0
he should be winning this handily.
quick recap :
jr yr of HS thru sr yr of coll - basically goes undefeated, wins everything there is to win first 2 yrs in nba - bunch of weird random injuries 3rd yr - finally 100% healthy, leads league in rpg and bpg, 1st team all-d, CHIP, finals mvp 4th yr - starts the season 50-10, prolly on his way to another chip, foot explodes, still wins mvp, 1st team all-d and 1st team all-nba 5th yr on - feet are cooked, never the same dude again
if his feet don't tank, he prolly has duncan's career. we should be voting on 2nd place here.
___
it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes
it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes
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