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Subject: "How do you define a sport" Previous topic | Next topic
AnonymousCoward
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Wed Mar-06-13 09:17 AM

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"How do you define a sport"


  

          

This is based on a thread in GD asking id cheerleading is a sport?

-Does a sport require some sort of athleticism? If so, we can dump a couple of Olympic sports like air-rifle and curling. Poker, darts, billiards and spelling bee all out.

-Does a sport require objective scoring, timing or measurement? If so, gymnastics, diving, figure skating and maybe even boxing are out. (IMHO, boxing stays because of the KO angle allowing for decisive wins).

-Does a sport require a skill? If so, a good argument could be made against weight-lifting or even many track events.

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
Had this debate with my people before...here's what we found
Mar 06th 2013
1
So Running isn't a sport?
Mar 06th 2013
3
No its not. its a race.
Mar 06th 2013
4
      RE: No its not. its a race.
Mar 06th 2013
6
      They absolutely affect each other
Mar 06th 2013
19
           Sounds like a YOU problem
Mar 06th 2013
24
      LOL ok
Mar 06th 2013
7
How does boxing fit in with #3?
Mar 06th 2013
9
If you need judges for the score - NOPE!!
Mar 06th 2013
11
      Well, you don't *need* judges
Mar 06th 2013
16
You can probably cut out like 80% of the Olympics then.
Mar 06th 2013
26
YEAH, YOU CAN..agreed
Mar 06th 2013
36
No defense in Golf
Mar 06th 2013
46
      Golf = Not a sport imo
Mar 06th 2013
52
           Would u consider a golf tournament a sporting event?
Mar 06th 2013
53
                Without thinking much about it...NO
Mar 06th 2013
54
                     Damn you're an angry lil elf
Mar 06th 2013
55
they're ultimately all games, no different than chess
Mar 06th 2013
2
A competition in which athleticism helps to determine the winner
Mar 06th 2013
5
I think you need an objective way to determine the winner
Mar 06th 2013
20
      Boxing too?
Mar 06th 2013
21
           lol
Mar 06th 2013
22
           boxing straddles the line
Mar 06th 2013
23
Is calling something a sport that bothersome to some??
Mar 06th 2013
8
i agree...if people are competing and want to call it a sport
Mar 06th 2013
10
This is where I'm at with it: competition.
Mar 06th 2013
17
Cosign. Insisting something isn't a sport is a bizarre stance.
Mar 06th 2013
12
The better question is why we feel the need to elevate every
Mar 06th 2013
28
      But why the need to try to limit the definition?
Mar 06th 2013
30
      because definitions ARE limits.
Mar 06th 2013
32
           But what's the point of degrading, say, competitive eating?
Mar 06th 2013
34
      Longo's point is what does it hurt for someone to call it a sport?
Mar 06th 2013
31
      Difference between "competition" and "sport":
Mar 06th 2013
33
           So Miss America is a sport?
Mar 06th 2013
35
                Yes, yes it is.
Mar 06th 2013
37
                     It's not about downgrading or diaparaging, it's about correctly labeling
Mar 06th 2013
38
                          Yeah, anything can be a sport.
Mar 06th 2013
39
                          If you ask me personally, it should be physical in nature.
Mar 06th 2013
41
                               This is a very legitimate counter to my definition.
Mar 06th 2013
43
                                    Yeah, Chess is the one that gives me pause.
Mar 06th 2013
44
It's a manliness thing when people react like that I think
Mar 06th 2013
13
RE: It's a manliness thing when people react like that I think
Mar 06th 2013
14
      But he will be manly when he tells the stories
Mar 06th 2013
15
Only on OKP
Mar 06th 2013
25
      You haven't been to many message boards have you?
Mar 06th 2013
27
      Nah I don't frequent many actually.
Mar 06th 2013
29
      Wait, what????
Mar 06th 2013
42
           If this was another message board
Mar 06th 2013
45
                Was what I asked negative?
Mar 06th 2013
47
                     No which made his response stranger
Mar 06th 2013
48
                     So really his 'only on OKP' applies to him now
Mar 06th 2013
49
                     Gotta be careful how you come off when you use hullabaloo
Mar 06th 2013
50
                          Lmao!!! I had to triple spell check that
Mar 06th 2013
51
      Why can't I ask a question?
Mar 06th 2013
40
I think dexterity and coordination always get short shrift
Mar 06th 2013
18

subjctmattr
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1. "Had this debate with my people before...here's what we found"
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Mar-06-13 03:03 PM by subjctmattr

          

1- Needs offense and defense. No defense = Not a sport. (sorry cheerleading, sorry bowling)
2- Both sides need to be doing going against each other at the same time. (head to head)
3- Objective scoring (sorry gymnastics)
4- Needs to have some sort of physical activity (so no connect 4 would not be a sport)

So NO, Boxing as a competition, and Nascar and track and field as either races or competitions, would NOT be sports by my definition.

  

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Y2Flound
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3. "So Running isn't a sport?"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

No defense

  

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subjctmattr
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4. "No its not. its a race."
In response to Reply # 3


          

  

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subjctmattr
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6. "RE: No its not. its a race."
In response to Reply # 4


          

Not to mention in running are they REALLY going head to head. Competing against each other? Having an impact on the others performance?

I have to include that before yo say add obstacles and then it becomes a sport, because that would be defense.

  

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AnonymousCoward
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19. "They absolutely affect each other"
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

There was a woman who ran the fastest time in the San Francisco Marathon, but was not declared the winner because she did not register as an elite runner. The elite runners were not aware of her pace and could not make adjustments.

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subjctmattr
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24. "Sounds like a YOU problem"
In response to Reply # 19
Wed Mar-06-13 04:45 PM by subjctmattr

          

>The elite runners were not aware of her pace and could not make adjustments.

So you only run your hardest / fastest if you are aware of someone else?
That's stupid!

And here's my personal favorite part:
>There was a woman who ran the fastest time in the San Francisco Marathon, but was not declared the winner because she did not register as an elite runner.

So her time didn't count because she was not an elite runner.
If we extend this theory to other "sports" then Shane Battier's shots shouldn't count..NOT ELITE.
wtf is that?

If what you're saying is she didn't register sat all that's different.

  

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Y2Flound
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7. "LOL ok"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

  

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Kungset
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9. "How does boxing fit in with #3?"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

  

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subjctmattr
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11. "If you need judges for the score - NOPE!!"
In response to Reply # 9
Wed Mar-06-13 03:24 PM by subjctmattr

          

Again though this is just what my people and I decided over a drink or two.
Bar talk at its finest.

  

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Call It Anything
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16. "Well, you don't *need* judges"
In response to Reply # 11


  

          

Back in the day boxing matches would just on until somebody won. They instituted a set number of rounds and judging to keep people from dying.

An objective outcome can be reached without judges, they judges are just a shortcut for safety.

  

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wallysmith
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26. "You can probably cut out like 80% of the Olympics then."
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

  

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subjctmattr
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36. "YEAH, YOU CAN..agreed"
In response to Reply # 26


          

  

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RaFromQueens
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46. "No defense in Golf"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

---
"People that need positivity around them all the time are weak individuals in my book" - @lilduval

  

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subjctmattr
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52. "Golf = Not a sport imo"
In response to Reply # 46
Wed Mar-06-13 07:23 PM by subjctmattr

          

1- Needs offense and defense. No defense = Not a sport. (sorry cheerleading, sorry bowling)
2- Both sides need to be doing going against each other at the same time. (head to head)
3- Objective scoring (sorry gymnastics)
4- Needs to have some sort of physical activity (so no connect 4 would not be a sport)

Golf violates rules 1 and 2.

  

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Ceej
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53. "Would u consider a golf tournament a sporting event?"
In response to Reply # 52


  

          

Cuz I have to say, it is a really great live event.

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subjctmattr
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54. "Without thinking much about it...NO"
In response to Reply # 53


          

I guess if I say Golf ain't a sport, then a tournament based around something that ain't a sport, could not be a sporting event.

  

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Ceej
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55. "Damn you're an angry lil elf"
In response to Reply # 54


  

          

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celery77
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2. "they're ultimately all games, no different than chess"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

it's a competition with a rigidly defined ruleset which allows a winner and a loser to be declared based on the predetermined rules of the game.

it's why things like cheerleading or ice skating or gymnastics or diving are weird because winners are determined via "judging," which creates an objective factor in the competition, which generally creates for a poor game. it would be like calculating style points into a person's "score" at the end of a game of chess based on how they played instead of just saying one person won, one person lost.

anything with an objective factor like this is generally understood as something different than your typical game.

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Y2Flound
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5. "A competition in which athleticism helps to determine the winner"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

That's how I'd define it

If you try to get too picky in rules you start to rule out things that are obviously sports.

Does this leave room for agument for things like Cheerleading? Yes, but that's just how it works. You wont find a clear simple definition that rules out the things that should be and includes all that should be included.

Are they doing athletic things to beat each other? Then sport

  

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Cocobrotha2
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20. "I think you need an objective way to determine the winner"
In response to Reply # 5
Wed Mar-06-13 04:10 PM by Cocobrotha2

          

Gymnasts have incredible athleticism but the fact that a panel of judges determines who the winner is makes gymnsatics more art than a sport to me.

Same with cheerleaders... or figure skaters.

Otherwise, I like your definition.

<-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><->
<-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><->

  

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Y2Flound
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21. "Boxing too?"
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

Or just things that mostly involve women?

  

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Cenario
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22. "lol"
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

Or just things that mostly involve women?

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

  

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AnonymousCoward
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23. "boxing straddles the line"
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

Olympic boxing scores punches landed. Subject to human error? Yes, but not subjective. And then there's the KO as a means of determining the winner.

In pro boxing is far more subjective, but doesn't factor in artistry as a key judging component.

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Ceej
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8. "Is calling something a sport that bothersome to some??"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Like how does calling cheerleading or bowling a sport negatively effect anyone, anywhere? Are they getting some sort of monetary gain by doing so?? I never got the hullabaloo over this.

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Cenario
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10. "i agree...if people are competing and want to call it a sport"
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

its fine with me.

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

  

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wallysmith
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17. "This is where I'm at with it: competition."
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

Some sort of organization with rules that defines winners and losers. Chess tourneys are a sport, but playing a game of chess with a friend is not. This means cheerleading itself isn't a sport, but cheerleading tourneys make the act of "cheerleading" a sport.

Or kids racing down the block. If they did it once or twice, then it's a race. If they did it every friday with progressive heats and a clear winner, then it becomes sport.

  

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Frank Longo
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12. "Cosign. Insisting something isn't a sport is a bizarre stance."
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

Some people can do something difficult to do that they've dedicated their whole lives to master in order to win in competition...

... yet it's somehow necessary to try to knock it down a few pegs by attempting to define "what a sport is"?

It's weird. And a little sad.

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AnonymousCoward
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28. "The better question is why we feel the need to elevate every"
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

competition to the realm of sport. Eating a lot of food and dancing may be difficult and require years of training, but they are not sports. And if so, is everything a sport? Words should mean things. We already have a word for competitions; it's "competition". No need to cheapen sport.

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Frank Longo
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30. "But why the need to try to limit the definition?"
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

There's no question that the best competitive eaters use training, strategy, years of hard work, including I would imagine hard work in the weight room to prepare for matches.

I'm not in a position to determine whether it's a sport or not.

If it's just the local boozehounds at Buffalo Wild Wings casually throwing up a hand saying they can eat more wings than their chubby buddy, that's a competition. If you're dedicating your life to that act?

I don't know. I'm just not in the position to deny that label, in any way.

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AnonymousCoward
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32. "because definitions ARE limits. "
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

Like, that's literally what a definition is. No one person gets to set definitions. Usage changes and linguists document those changes. The point of this post is to determine how we as a community would define sport. No one really expects consensus. We couldn't get half of these people to agree that the sun is shining. It's just a discussion topic.

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Frank Longo
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34. "But what's the point of degrading, say, competitive eating?"
In response to Reply # 32


  

          

What does the label of a "sport" gain that it loses if competitive eating is defined as a sport?

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Y2Flound
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31. "Longo's point is what does it hurt for someone to call it a sport?"
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

Does it ruin the entertainment value of the sports you like to know that someone else considers something you don't like a sport?

  

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wallysmith
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33. "Difference between "competition" and "sport":"
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

Competition: Some sort of event with clear winners and losers.
Example: Two kids running down the block, competing for the best time.

Sport: Some sort of organization surrounding a competition.
Example: Same two kids running down the same block, but they do this every Friday and keep tabs on who has won the most Fridays.

  

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AnonymousCoward
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35. "So Miss America is a sport?"
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

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"Like 4 out of 5 things you say on OKP offend me." -FireBrand

  

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wallysmith
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37. "Yes, yes it is."
In response to Reply # 35


  

          

It's not my deal to determine what's "worthwhile" or not to the eye of the beholder, but yes, beauty pageants are sport (in my personal definition).

For the record, I'm not trying to convince anyone that my definition of sport is the only acceptable definition (although I think that some definitions out there are way too narrow, I do acknowledge that mine is rather broad). With regards to your comment, I was just trying to highlight the difference between 'competition' and 'sport'.

I just feel that excluding activities like Chess and Cheerleading from "sport" is a bit too narrow for my tastes. Regardless of whether or not someone has a personal interest in said activity, other people obviously have a lot of interest in it... and "downgrading" their organized competition based on subjective parameters is a bit unfair.

  

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AnonymousCoward
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38. "It's not about downgrading or diaparaging, it's about correctly labeling"
In response to Reply # 37


  

          

I was just showing the inherent flaws in your particular definition pf sport as any competition with a sanctioning body, because literally ANYTHING can be a sport, from barbecue cook-offs to beauty pageants.

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wallysmith
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39. "Yeah, anything can be a sport."
In response to Reply # 38


  

          

If a bunch of hardcore barbecuers want to get together and figure out who's the best barbecuer year in and year out, and call it a sport, why not? Why deny them that ability to call their own passion a sport if it's properly organized, has rules and clear winners and losers?

Random, but I decided to google competitive barbecuing... the internet has everything haha

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=rovell/050909

  

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Frank Longo
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41. "If you ask me personally, it should be physical in nature."
In response to Reply # 38


  

          

Which means cheer leading is a sport, competitive eating is a sport, gymnastics is a sport, strong man is a sport.... but Miss America is not.

However. I don't know a lot about Miss America.

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wallysmith
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43. "This is a very legitimate counter to my definition."
In response to Reply # 41


  

          

I personally keep my definition broad because I firmly insist that Chess (and other contests that stress mental prowess) is a sport.

But I have no issues if people want to add physicality to their definition.

  

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Frank Longo
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44. "Yeah, Chess is the one that gives me pause."
In response to Reply # 43


  

          

Because I can understand people who say either chess or poker competitively are sports.

It's a tough call.

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Y2Flound
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13. "It's a manliness thing when people react like that I think"
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

Dudes who just want to make sure everyone knows they are manly because they only consider things they want to as sports.

Bowling is for pussies, I played football in high school like a real man!

  

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Ceej
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14. "RE: It's a manliness thing when people react like that I think"
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

>Bowling is for pussies, I played football in high school like
>a real man!

Right, yet if you are actually good at bowling you can do it for years and make money while the high school superstar can tell stories from the good ole days and bore everyone around him.

http://i.imgur.com/vPqCzVU.jpg

  

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Y2Flound
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15. "But he will be manly when he tells the stories"
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

  

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subjctmattr
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25. "Only on OKP"
In response to Reply # 8


          

The question was asked; if you think the question is useless...ignore the question.

  

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Y2Flound
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27. "You haven't been to many message boards have you?"
In response to Reply # 25


  

          

Because on most Ceej's response would have been, this question is gay, you're a f*g

Followed by something racist for good measure.

  

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subjctmattr
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29. "Nah I don't frequent many actually."
In response to Reply # 27


          

I guess thanks for the heads up.

  

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Ceej
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42. "Wait, what????"
In response to Reply # 27


  

          

http://i.imgur.com/vPqCzVU.jpg

  

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Y2Flound
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45. "If this was another message board"
In response to Reply # 42


  

          

That board's equivalent of you would have said something like that rather than asking your question.

My point was if you think OKP is the only place where people will make a negative comment about your original post then you have not explored the internet.

  

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Ceej
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47. "Was what I asked negative?"
In response to Reply # 45


  

          

I got what you were sayin now tho

http://i.imgur.com/vPqCzVU.jpg

  

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Y2Flound
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48. "No which made his response stranger"
In response to Reply # 47


  

          

Like you were daring to question him on a message board which is unheard of

  

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Ceej
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49. "So really his 'only on OKP' applies to him now"
In response to Reply # 48


  

          

I wasn't mad about this post at all, it's not like ima start a seperate post with my question.

http://i.imgur.com/vPqCzVU.jpg

  

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Kungset
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50. "Gotta be careful how you come off when you use hullabaloo "
In response to Reply # 47


  

          

  

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Ceej
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51. "Lmao!!! I had to triple spell check that"
In response to Reply # 50


  

          

Shoulda saved that reply for a Thursday

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Ceej
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40. "Why can't I ask a question?"
In response to Reply # 25


  

          

http://i.imgur.com/vPqCzVU.jpg

  

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Cocobrotha2
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18. "I think dexterity and coordination always get short shrift"
In response to Reply # 0


          

in this argument.

But it's what separates a good jumpshooter from a great one in basketball... or distinguishes an accurate passer from an average one in the NFL.

Just because bowling, darts, golf, and car racing depend almost SOLELY on dexterity and coordination doesn't disqualify them as sports. There are other sports that are solely about speed or strength.

But a motherfucker that can hit a tiny target 20-30 feet away with precision and accuracy is just as much an athlete as Usain Bolt or Kendrick Perkins.

<-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><->
<-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><->

  

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