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Lobby Okay Sports topic #2140991

Subject: "LOL Bron on them Roids or nah?" Previous topic | Next topic
Geah
Member since Feb 16th 2007
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Mon Mar-04-13 01:27 PM

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"LOL Bron on them Roids or nah?"


          

http://www.totalprosports.com/2013/03/04/lebron-james-link-steroid-clinic-miami-report-incarcerated-bob-video/

@geahuwine

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
this board would blow up
Mar 04th 2013
1
incarcerated bob = very trusted source
Mar 04th 2013
2
The guy is a sports talk staple
Mar 04th 2013
3
      he's going nuts on twitter right now
Mar 04th 2013
4
are you asking if your link is enough evidence
Mar 04th 2013
5
of course he is. It doesn't matter tho
Mar 04th 2013
6
for the record, this dude is like the ultimate ultimate ultimate MJ stan
Mar 04th 2013
7
i been thought he been on the roids but i think everyone in the NBA is
Mar 04th 2013
8
^^Best avatar in the game
Mar 04th 2013
9
Kobe clearly is now
Mar 04th 2013
10
^
Mar 04th 2013
17
Wouldn't shock me if he, Kobe, or Dwight were.
Mar 04th 2013
11
Durant clearly is not
Mar 04th 2013
12
      KD needs to get a stack
Mar 05th 2013
24
           He just need some
Mar 05th 2013
27
           i don't think his game would suffer
Mar 05th 2013
28
why wouldn't he be?
Mar 04th 2013
13
He started at 15?
Mar 04th 2013
14
http://it0224.weebly.com/uploads/1/1/6/7/11671009/2873158_orig.jpg
Mar 04th 2013
18
      ^^^ lacks inner/over/between/semi/pituitary/hypo/eso/exo/standing
Mar 04th 2013
19
      so...you're tellin me he was smaller, when he was younger?
Mar 05th 2013
20
      How is that even possible?
Mar 05th 2013
23
      I'm saying he wasn't a "beast" physically at 15. for the record, I think...
Mar 06th 2013
63
      RE: http://it0224.weebly.com/uploads/1/1/6/7/11671009/2873158_orig.jpg
Mar 05th 2013
26
           before and after comparisons are worth noting but not crucial
Mar 05th 2013
29
lol
Mar 04th 2013
15
RE: LOL Bron on them Roi-gaine ... nah
Mar 04th 2013
16
wow, i expected that article to be bad, but not that bad
Mar 05th 2013
21
you dont know what lebron wincing looks like?
Mar 05th 2013
25
I basically assume all pro athletes are on roids anyway
Mar 05th 2013
22
Hell, at this point, if MJ was on some of that Lance
Mar 05th 2013
30
wouldn't surprise me if he was on testosterone.
Mar 05th 2013
31
Last I checked this is not true.
Mar 05th 2013
32
      Nevada's athletic commission openly reveals...
Mar 05th 2013
41
           .
Mar 05th 2013
43
                they reveal NCAA, IOC, NFL, NBA, etc?
Mar 05th 2013
45
                     I can only confirm NFL not the NBA though.
Mar 05th 2013
47
                          Very interesting. Perhaps the IOC works differently.
Mar 05th 2013
49
                               Cycling, MLB players have them too:
Mar 05th 2013
51
                                    what's weird about the NFL article you posted
Mar 05th 2013
53
                                         that's happened a lot in MMA.
Mar 05th 2013
55
How do NBA players stay diesel in season?
Mar 05th 2013
33
RE: How do NBA players stay diesel in season?
Mar 05th 2013
34
probably light work/prehab when they can get it in
Mar 05th 2013
37
For sure, just not heavy and trying to break records
Mar 05th 2013
48
strength coaches & the best nutrition money can buy
Mar 05th 2013
56
dog they fucking run and jump all day
Mar 05th 2013
35
dog
Mar 05th 2013
36
exactly
Mar 05th 2013
38
huh?
Mar 05th 2013
42
lol
Mar 06th 2013
61
^^^^ posting be mad diesel
Mar 05th 2013
39
Man I thought you were setting this up for a gorilla lifting weights res...
Mar 05th 2013
40
there's no iron cross in bball
Mar 05th 2013
44
Yeah no homo but did you see how ripped he and Wade in that...
Mar 05th 2013
46
      lol no that definitely did not cross my mind.
Mar 05th 2013
50
      ...
Mar 05th 2013
52
      You consistently make the most homoerotic posts in OKS
Mar 05th 2013
54
      I'm secure enough in my manhood that I don't trip off of shit like that....
Mar 06th 2013
59
           it's all good, I know truth is an OG meathead
Mar 06th 2013
62
      yes homo
Mar 05th 2013
57
Patrick Hruby wrote a good piece on it last month
Mar 06th 2013
58
I wouldn't be shocked if Kobe was on something too, we all know...
Mar 06th 2013
60
cosign
Mar 06th 2013
65
Good article
Mar 06th 2013
64
how did I not even hear about this?
Mar 06th 2013
66
it's inevitable.
Mar 06th 2013
67
      and because they told Congress to go fuck themselves
Mar 06th 2013
68
      also true.
Mar 06th 2013
69
      two things to add
Mar 06th 2013
70

ShawndmeSlanted
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Mon Mar-04-13 01:29 PM

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1. "this board would blow up"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

---
"though time has passed, im still the future" (c) black thought

  

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Guinness
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Mon Mar-04-13 01:32 PM

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2. "incarcerated bob = very trusted source"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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MothershipConnection
Member since Nov 22nd 2003
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Mon Mar-04-13 01:33 PM

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3. "The guy is a sports talk staple"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

.

  

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Guinness
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4. "he's going nuts on twitter right now"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

https://twitter.com/incarceratedbob

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Mon Mar-04-13 01:37 PM

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5. "are you asking if your link is enough evidence"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

did you read it?

some girl said...Mr Paul...LJ

=

GTFOH

would I be surprised

literally nothing would surprise me at this point with PED use

nothing

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
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Mon Mar-04-13 01:50 PM

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6. "of course he is. It doesn't matter tho"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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El_essence
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Mon Mar-04-13 02:03 PM

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7. "for the record, this dude is like the ultimate ultimate ultimate MJ stan"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

He's been on Youtube for years shitting on Kobe. Now it's Bron.

  

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JAESCOTT777
Member since Feb 18th 2006
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Mon Mar-04-13 02:15 PM

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8. "i been thought he been on the roids but i think everyone in the NBA is"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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Deebot
Member since Oct 21st 2004
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Mon Mar-04-13 02:17 PM

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9. "^^Best avatar in the game"
In response to Reply # 0


          

  

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SeV
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10. "Kobe clearly is now"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

shyts kinda obvious


____________

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DolphinTeef
Member since Oct 25th 2009
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17. "^"
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

  

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Ryan M
Member since Oct 21st 2002
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Mon Mar-04-13 02:47 PM

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11. "Wouldn't shock me if he, Kobe, or Dwight were."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

  

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T Reynolds
Member since Apr 16th 2007
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Mon Mar-04-13 02:49 PM

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12. "Durant clearly is not"
In response to Reply # 11


  

          

  

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AlBundy
Member since May 27th 2002
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24. "KD needs to get a stack"
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

-------------------------
“The other dude after me didn’t help my case. It was just like…crazy nigga factory going on.”
Dre makes no apologies for his own eccentricities. “I was young, and searching, trying to find myself,” he says. “Never did.”-- Andre B

  

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Numba_33
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27. "He just need some"
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

squats and deadlifts.

  

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T Reynolds
Member since Apr 16th 2007
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Tue Mar-05-13 09:08 AM

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28. "i don't think his game would suffer"
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

even dirk had some cuts

  

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3xKrazy
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13. "why wouldn't he be?"
In response to Reply # 0


          

dude could damn near line up as a defensive end

  

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RaFromQueens
Member since Apr 18th 2006
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Mon Mar-04-13 07:40 PM

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14. "He started at 15?"
In response to Reply # 0
Mon Mar-04-13 07:40 PM by RaFromQueens

  

          

Dude has been an unnatural beast forever.

---
"People that need positivity around them all the time are weak individuals in my book" - @lilduval

  

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El_essence
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18. "http://it0224.weebly.com/uploads/1/1/6/7/11671009/2873158_orig.jpg"
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

http://it0224.weebly.com/uploads/1/1/6/7/11671009/2873158_orig.jpg

  

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vik
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19. "^^^ lacks inner/over/between/semi/pituitary/hypo/eso/exo/standing"
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

---

But hell, what do I know?

  

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veritas
Member since Sep 16th 2002
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Tue Mar-05-13 12:06 AM

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20. "so...you're tellin me he was smaller, when he was younger?"
In response to Reply # 18


          

i still blame hip-hop.

  

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guru0509
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23. "How is that even possible?"
In response to Reply # 20
Tue Mar-05-13 01:07 AM by guru0509

  

          

It's mind boggling. Where is Dr. JungleSouljah to give us his medical opinion on this phenomena?


______________________
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Inspectah Deck + 7L & Esoteric - CZARFACE
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El_essence
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63. "I'm saying he wasn't a "beast" physically at 15. for the record, I think..."
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

story is some bullshit.

  

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RaFromQueens
Member since Apr 18th 2006
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26. "RE: http://it0224.weebly.com/uploads/1/1/6/7/11671009/2873158_orig.jpg"
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

http://www.cs.fredonia.edu/szocki/projects/spring_09/15/images/highschool_2.jpg

---
"People that need positivity around them all the time are weak individuals in my book" - @lilduval

  

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3xKrazy
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29. "before and after comparisons are worth noting but not crucial"
In response to Reply # 26
Tue Mar-05-13 09:18 AM by 3xKrazy

          

bron is a good 60 heavier right now but yeah, he always had the frame to fill out and 1 in a million genetics.

the more important point is that these guys are paid to win and lebron is not only at the top of his profession right now but one of the best of all time...

if you've been following sports over the past decade you should know what it takes to compete at the pro level, let alone what it takes to dominate a field of elite athletes who have access to PED's (see: Lance)

the shit is available to him...so why wouldn't he take it? moral concerns?

  

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Vex_id
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15. "lol "
In response to Reply # 0


          


-->

www.astralquest.com
http://bit.ly/K71yjf

#TruSparta x #Innerstanding

  

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vik
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16. "RE: LOL Bron on them Roi-gaine ... nah"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

>http://www.totalprosports.com/2013/03/04/lebron-james-link-steroid-clinic-miami-report-incarcerated-bob-video/

---

But hell, what do I know?

  

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pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
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21. "wow, i expected that article to be bad, but not that bad"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

And I was even entertaining the idea the other day, just because it's pretty freakish to not have a major injury for that long (I mean I don't even know what him wincing looks like, that seems odd). Not unprecedented though, KG didn't have one until 2009 unless I'm forgetting something.

But this article has too many "ifs", "claims", and guys named "Incarcerated Bob" for me to take it seriously.

  

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AlBundy
Member since May 27th 2002
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25. "you dont know what lebron wincing looks like?"
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

really bro?

-------------------------
“The other dude after me didn’t help my case. It was just like…crazy nigga factory going on.”
Dre makes no apologies for his own eccentricities. “I was young, and searching, trying to find myself,” he says. “Never did.”-- Andre B

  

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MothershipConnection
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Tue Mar-05-13 12:59 AM

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22. "I basically assume all pro athletes are on roids anyway"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Hell, HGH and roids are pretty much some of the best things they can do to their body, especially compared to some of the painkillers they take and some of the concussions they receive.

It'll be a long time before people come around on my "let up roid" bandwagon but I still believe.

  

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Beamer6178
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Tue Mar-05-13 12:44 PM

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30. "Hell, at this point, if MJ was on some of that Lance"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

for his endurance and stamina, it wouldn't shock me that much.

and he's my all time top two favorite athletes (Jerry Rice) period. I happen to think it's that character defect that pushed him through that made him that rare dude to keep going, but it wouldn't change the rotation of the planets were something like that to come out.

  

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Expertise
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31. "wouldn't surprise me if he was on testosterone."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Testosterone Replacement Therapy is one of those things that is out in the open, but none of the mainstream media talks about outside of boxing (and that's to a small extent) and MMA.

And the catch is, it's doctor administered and legal in all sports. If ESPN suddenly gained a hard-on about the practice all hell would break loose.
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3xKrazy
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32. "Last I checked this is not true."
In response to Reply # 31


          


>And the catch is, it's doctor administered and legal in all
>sports.

You would need to apply to the governing agency within your sport to be given clearance for testosterone replacement therapy. And nobody has ever applied for this waiver.

It would be too easy of a loophole to get around.

And 'Testosteorne replacement therapy' isn't bound by any strict set of guidelines either. There's nothing that says you can't take a supraphysiolgical dose and claim that to be your TRT. Like I said, this would never fly.

  

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Expertise
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41. "Nevada's athletic commission openly reveals..."
In response to Reply # 32


  

          

Who is on TRT and who isn't. And the procedure is clearly being abused among boxers and MMA fighters.

Yes; it's an easy loophole. That's the whole point of so many that get the exemption.
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3xKrazy
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43. "."
In response to Reply # 41
Tue Mar-05-13 09:02 PM by 3xKrazy

          

.

  

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3xKrazy
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45. "they reveal NCAA, IOC, NFL, NBA, etc?"
In response to Reply # 43
Tue Mar-05-13 09:09 PM by 3xKrazy

          

I know nothing of boxing and MMA

edit: from an SI article...

"If so, Olympic wrestlers should be prime candidates for TRT, though it turns out that therapeutic-use exemptions are actually exceedingly rare when one has to petition the IOC rather than a state athletic commission for one. ("It's simply not done," according to Dr. Don Catlin, who sits on the IOC's review board for therapeutic-use exemptions, and who describes testosterone as the "preferred" performance-enhancing drug for elite athletes these days.)"
...

"Every sport struggles with performance-enhancing drugs of some stripe, but no other major professional sport offers its athletes this type of opportunity to use them right out in the open."



  

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Expertise
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47. "I can only confirm NFL not the NBA though."
In response to Reply # 45


  

          

I don't think they release who though. But they did confirm one of the doctors that allow it.

And WADA has allowed over a dozen exemptions for HGH and over 2 dozen for testosterone:

http://thinksteroids.com/news/therapeutic-use-of-testosterone-and-hgh-granted-in-football-players/

I do recall reading that TRT is legal in all major sports, though. They don't reveal who received the exemptions.
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3xKrazy
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49. "Very interesting. Perhaps the IOC works differently."
In response to Reply # 47
Tue Mar-05-13 09:23 PM by 3xKrazy

          

that opens up an enormous can of worms.

and anyone in the nfl can claim a need for TRT since concussions are linked to endocrine disturbances. though the article did specify 'testicular disease' which is a bit different and doesn't include generic age-related decreases in testosterone levels. it would be interesting to read the actual fine print in the rule book as opposed to 2nd hand info from dubious sources

NBA probably doesn't even have to stipulate regarding TRT because steroids aren't yet a PR issue for their sport.

  

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Expertise
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51. "Cycling, MLB players have them too:"
In response to Reply # 49


  

          

Which I think is even more heinous considering they've gone through and are still going through a scandal:

http://thinksteroids.com/news/therapeutic-use-exemptions-for-performance-enhancing-drugs/

"In the 2006 Tour de France, it was reported that 60 percent of the 105 riders subject to testing had therapuetic use exemptions. This meant that even if they tested positive for a banned substance, they were not penalized. Pat McQuaid, of the International Cycling Union (UCI) was quoted as saying:

We follow the WADA rules and the WADA rules allow guys to have (the certificates) for certain things… It’s not particular to cycling.
TUEs for anabolic steroids, beta-2 adrenergic agonists (e.g. clenbuterol, salbutamol), and corticosteroids were granted by the UCI.

Now just imagine how problematic the TUE loophole could be in Major League Baseball whose drug testing procedures are much more lenient that those of WADA (World Anti-Doping Association).

According to the Mitchell Report, Rob Manfred from the Commissioner’s Office maintained that no therapeutic use exemptions were issued to MLB players for growth hormone (GH). (If use of GH is not detectable, it is clearly not necessary for a doped athlete to obtain a TUE.)

But when Senator Mitchell’s office asked for the total number of therapeutic use exemptions granted to players, the Commissioner’s Office and Player’s Association refused to answer:

I asked for the number of therapeutic use exemptions granted each year for performance enhancing substances (without identifying the players involved) because therapeutic use exemptions have been a significant loophole in some drug testing programs. The Commissioner’s Office and the Players Association declined to provide that information on the ground that it is considered confidential under the joint program."
_________________________
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3xKrazy
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53. "what's weird about the NFL article you posted"
In response to Reply # 51


          

it said the players appealed for exemptions AFTER they failed a drug test.

seems like a convenient way for the sport to make the problem "go away" and not have to out those players or report it in the numbers as a failed test.

  

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Expertise
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55. "that's happened a lot in MMA."
In response to Reply # 53
Tue Mar-05-13 09:57 PM by Expertise

  

          

A number of fighters get TUEs after they fail drug tests.

The most famous one is Chael Sonnen. Failed the test, then appealed, claiming he had hypogonadism, diagnosed by a quack doctor that had been linked to steroid doctor shopping. And Nevada still cut his suspension and gave him a TRT exemption.
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3xKrazy
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33. "How do NBA players stay diesel in season?"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Ain't no time and recovery capabilities (even with PED's) for squatting and deadlifting when you're balling 40 minutes per night.

Hell, even maintaining your weight and LBM is a difficult feat.

  

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Numba_33
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34. "RE: How do NBA players stay diesel in season?"
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

>Ain't no time and recovery capabilities (even with PED's) for
>squatting and deadlifting when you're balling 40 minutes per
>night.
>
>Hell, even maintaining your weight and LBM is a difficult
>feat.

Do players lift during the season? That sounds like a recipe for an injury if that's the case.

  

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3xKrazy
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37. "probably light work/prehab when they can get it in"
In response to Reply # 34


          


>Do players lift during the season?

even football players tone it down in season and will usually lift 2-3x week whole body with the goal of strictly maintaining strength and LBM...cause like i said, it's really hard to maintain in season.

  

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-DJ R-Tistic-
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48. "For sure, just not heavy and trying to break records"
In response to Reply # 34


  

          

The players who need strength the most, like the skinny Centers and PF's, probably go harder than everyone else....but still not like Summertime transformer hard

------------------------------

50+ FREE Mixes on www.DJR-Tistic.com!

Twitter and Instagram - @DJ_RTistic

  

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AlBundy
Member since May 27th 2002
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56. "strength coaches & the best nutrition money can buy"
In response to Reply # 34


  

          

-------------------------
“The other dude after me didn’t help my case. It was just like…crazy nigga factory going on.”
Dre makes no apologies for his own eccentricities. “I was young, and searching, trying to find myself,” he says. “Never did.”-- Andre B

  

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Ryan M
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35. "dog they fucking run and jump all day"
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

  

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3xKrazy
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36. "dog"
In response to Reply # 35
Tue Mar-05-13 08:41 PM by 3xKrazy

          

go run and jump all day every day for the next 2 months and see how much muscle you add

report back with your results

  

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Ryan M
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38. "exactly"
In response to Reply # 36


  

          

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

  

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3xKrazy
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42. "huh?"
In response to Reply # 38


          

.

  

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Deebot
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61. "lol"
In response to Reply # 36


          

  

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soundsop
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39. "^^^^ posting be mad diesel"
In response to Reply # 35


  

          

  

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ShawndmeSlanted
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40. "Man I thought you were setting this up for a gorilla lifting weights res..."
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

>Ain't no time and recovery capabilities (even with PED's) for
>squatting and deadlifting when you're balling 40 minutes per
>night.
>
>Hell, even maintaining your weight and LBM is a difficult
>feat.


---
"though time has passed, im still the future" (c) black thought

  

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3xKrazy
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44. "there's no iron cross in bball"
In response to Reply # 40


          

hoops and gymnastics aren't exactly alike

  

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ThaTruth
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46. "Yeah no homo but did you see how ripped he and Wade in that..."
In response to Reply # 33


          

Harlem Shake video?

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

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3xKrazy
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50. "lol no that definitely did not cross my mind."
In response to Reply # 46
Tue Mar-05-13 09:38 PM by 3xKrazy

          

i was too focused on how that shit has nothing to do with harlem

  

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Numba_33
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52. "..."
In response to Reply # 46


  

          

http://tinyurl.com/a423tnx

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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54. "You consistently make the most homoerotic posts in OKS"
In response to Reply # 46


  

          


Just pointing that out

I miss gay-bashing Truth from 2005

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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ThaTruth
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59. "I'm secure enough in my manhood that I don't trip off of shit like that...."
In response to Reply # 54


          

the way you do.

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

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3xKrazy
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62. "it's all good, I know truth is an OG meathead"
In response to Reply # 59
Wed Mar-06-13 10:16 AM by 3xKrazy

          

and it's 'ok' for meatheads to talk about other dudes physiques and whatnot.

but that shit ALWAYS sounded wild homo to me so i never partook in those types of discussions and usually just made fun of everybody else who did. even if i actually did in fact notice another man's dieselness. its just the principal of the matter.

  

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AlBundy
Member since May 27th 2002
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57. "yes homo"
In response to Reply # 46


  

          

fixed it for YOU

-------------------------
“The other dude after me didn’t help my case. It was just like…crazy nigga factory going on.”
Dre makes no apologies for his own eccentricities. “I was young, and searching, trying to find myself,” he says. “Never did.”-- Andre B

  

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Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
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58. "Patrick Hruby wrote a good piece on it last month"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://www.patrickhruby.net/2013/02/ball-and-juice.html

WHY WOULDN'T NBA PLAYERS USE PEDS?

Maybe you missed it. Probably you missed it. Earlier this week, Orlando Magic forward Hedo Turkoglu was suspended 20 games by the NBA after testing positive for steroids.

Here's what didn't happen next.

Demands for more stringent drug testing. Calls for Congressional hearings. Comparisons to Lance Armstrong. I-told-you-so tweets from Jose Canseco. Wailing over Turkoglu's career statistics. Gnashing of teeth over his place in basketball history. Concern that this sets a bad example for the children. Concern that this sets a bad example for other dopers. (Seriously: Turkoglu took a left on Anabolic Avenue, and all he has to show for it 2.9 points and 2.4 rebounds per game? Did his methenolone get mixed up with a bag of oregano?)

Turkoglu's swift mea culpa and dubious-sounding excuse -- he took mystery medication from a trainer in Turkey last summer to recover from a shoulder injury, and whaddya know, he forgot to check it against the league's list of banned substances -- was not met with the pronounced public snickering that greeted Roger Clemens' totally scientific Third Ear and the short, tragic non-life of Tyler Hamilton's unborn twin. Federal agents did not pick through Turkoglu's trash. Anti-doping officials did not appear on "60 Minutes" to press for a detailed confession. No one connected the potential dots between Turkoglu and former Magic teammate Rashard Lewis, who also flunked a steroid screen in 2009; no one, not even on the Internet, took the next conspiracy-minded step and wondered how, exactly, former Magic frontcourt mate Dwight Howard's bulbous shoulders became bigger than Barry Bonds' head.

To the contrary, nobody cared. Not really. Nobody cared because the NBA got the same pass it always gets, because everybody knows that professional basketball -- a ferociously competitive, highly lucrative sport that puts a premium on running, jumping, strength and endurance, not to mention rapid recovery during a long, physically taxing season -- does not have a performance-enhancing drug problem.

Right?

David Stern seems to think so. In 2005, the league commissioner said that PED use wasn't "a problem at the present time that we think we have." Charles Barkley seems to think so, too: four years ago, he expressed surprise at Lewis' steroid suspension, arguing that tall, lithe NBA players simply don't have physiques that suggest widespread doping. Around the same time Stern made his comment, a longtime NBA athletic trainer told ESPN.com's Marc Stein that "in the basketball culture, players want to be long and athletic. They want to be lean, and they would be fearful that added bulk would affect their lateral quickness;" a team physician said that "when you're playing every other night for 82 games, endurance is really what you're after, and steroids actually hurt that;" and 15-year league veteran Tony Massenburg added that NBA players don't even like to lift weights.

Of course, all of this makes perfect sense. Provided you have no idea how PEDs can actually enhance, you know, performance.

"That makes no sense," says former Bay Area Laboratory Co-Operative (BALCO) mastermind Victor Conte. "Look at the biceps of Tour de France riders. They're 9-10 inches . We know they use anabolic steroids, specifically testosterone. For the most part, these drugs -- meaning the whole category of anabolic steroids -- are recovery drugs. They are very powerful. Would they be a benefit to an NBA player? Absolutely."

Charles Yesalis, a Penn State emeritus professor and sports doping expert, concurs.

"Distance runners have been using anabolics and growth hormones in very small doses for years," he says. "Not to build muscle. But to help recuperate. The myth of making you muscle-bound is so over."

I believe NBA players are using steroids. Human growth hormone. Stimulants like Adderall. The blood-boosting drug erythropoietin (EPO). Anything and everything to get an edge. I believe players are doping in the summer and doping in season and doping during All-Star Weekend, stacking and micro-dosing, injecting and rubbing in cream. Do I have smoking-gun proof? Nothing beyond the occasional failed drug test, like the one that earned then-Memphis Grizzlies guard O.J. Mayo a 10-game suspension in 2011. Is use widespread, like Chicago Bulls guard Derrick Rose reportedly once suggested and then denied? I have no idea.

Still, I'm convinced it's happening. So is Yesalis, who after Lewis' suspension told me there was "no doubt in his mind." To think otherwise is to have both admirable faith in the better angels of human nature and a willful disregard for basic logic. "The money involved is substantial," Yesalis says. "The drugs are available. The tests are fraught with loopholes. I don't know how complicated it is. It's the same as all other sports. Why would anybody think the NBA is any cleaner than baseball?" To think otherwise is to sound like Stern, who in 2005 delivered the following prepared statement to a Congressional committee, and only walked away a free man because declaring one's studious belief in the existence of Bigfoot before a group of skeptical lawmakers is not, in fact, a federal crime:

"The sport of basketball emphasizes a specialized set of physical abilities -- particularly quickness, agility and basketball skill -- that are distinct from those required in a number of other sports. Accordingly, illicit substances that could assist athletes in strength sports , power sports , or endurance sports , are not likely to be of benefit to NBA players."

Ahem. Conte tells a story. Back when he was helping athletes dope, he gave EPO to one of his female sprinters. (Conte declines to provide her name, but it's easy to infer he's talking about retired sprinter Kelli White.) White won two gold medals at the 2003 world championships. When she subsequently confessed to PED use during the height of the BALCO scandal, anti-doping scientists such as Don Catlin found one part of her drug cocktail baffling: why was a sprinter taking EPO, a drug that boosts endurance by increasing the blood's oxygen-carrying capacity?

"What they failed to ask was this: how long do you think these athletes train each day?" Conte says. "Hours and hours. And in the offseason, training for months and months, do you think that a deeper training load wouldn't help you? These are training drugs!"

When Conte first began studying the physiology of athletic performance, he says, he was particularly intrigued by Defense Department research on Navy SEALs, whose bodies and minds are subjected to extreme levels of strain and stress during intense training exercises. "They go through hand-to-hand combat, verbal abuse, sleep deprivation, underwater demolition," he says. "It depletes the body of nutrients and builds up metabolic waste products. I saw parallels with elite athletes."

Growth hormone, Conte says, could help NBA players maintain muscle mass over the course of a long, punishing season. Anabolic steroids accelerate muscle tissue repair and healing, which could help with recovery from both hard training and hard-luck injury. EPO boosts endurance not only by bringing more oxygen to muscles, but also by speeding up removal of metabolic waste, delaying the onset of fatigue.

"I have heard a lot of athletes in the NFL and track and field describe the effect of EPO with one word," he says. "It makes you like a machine. You just don't get tired. In basketball, you might not see the effect as much in the first and second quarter, but by the fourth quarter there's a huge edge. One guy has a body full of toxins that have built up. The other guy has a body that has accelerated the removal of those toxins. He's the one who will be able to make that quick move and get past his defender."

In baseball, widespread use of PEDs inverted the usual relationship between advancing age and declining production: 30-something players were suddenly becoming better as they got older. (See Clemens, Roger. Er, allegedly.) In the NBA, a group of aging stars including Los Angeles Lakers guards Kobe Bryant and Steve Nash spent much of the last half-decade managing to pull off a similar trick; was it, as Grantland's Bill Simmons has argued, the result of "better doctors, surgical procedures, dieting, drug testing, trainers, computers, video equipment, workout equipment, workout regiments, airplanes" and even "hotel pillows?" Or was something else afoot?

Remember: during MLB's 1990s size-and-power surge, before BALCO and the Mitchell Report, people were writing straight-faced articles about Ken Caminiti's "goody bag" -- full of all-natural vitamins and nutritional supplements -- and how creatine and weight training alone were changing the sport.

"The level of these hormones like growth hormone and testosterone begin to decline in the body on average at age 30," Conte says. "At least a one percent drop per year. So guys getting up in their 30s are not going to recover like they would be in their mid 20s. That's another way can help."

If NBA players have ample incentives to use PEDs -- millions of guaranteed dollars at stake; the not-insubstantial fact that the drugs work -- they also have few disincentives. After all, federal lawmakers labeled the league's drug testing policy "inadequate," "pathetic" and "a joke" in 2005, and again blasted the NBA three years later. Last October, World Anti-Doping Agency director general David Howman said the league had "gaps" in its program -- gaps that ESPN.com's Henry Abbott identified as:

• A lack of blood testing, which means the league cannot detect HGH use;

• A lack of "biological passports," a year-round assessment of an athlete's blood profile that looks for chemical oddities and has been credited with reducing doping in cycling;

• A vulnerability to micro-dosing, a practice in which athletes take small doses of PEDs that clear the body in a matter of hours, giving testers a tiny window of opportunity;

• Advance notice to players of drug tests, particularly in the off-season, which gives players time to prepare and/or make themselves scarce.

Abbott also points out that the NBA only subjects players to four random tests per season and just two random tests in the offseason. Both numbers make Conte incredulous. "Testing you only a couple of times a year isn't much, especially when you know how quickly some of these drugs clear," he says. "EPO, synthetic testosterone, you can clear them in a day. And the offseason is when the fish are really biting. If you don't put your hook and line in the pond when you know they're biting, you're not going to catch any fish. I believe that there are really all sorts of loopholes in the testing of the NBA."

Yesalis trusts his eyes. Are NBA players as muscular as their NFL counterparts? No. But they're bigger, faster and stronger than their predecessors. More defined, too. "Just get a bunch of pictures of pro basketball players in the 1960s and 1970s," he says. "Look at how they've changed." In the early 1980s, Yesalis was a college strength coach. He remembers women's basketball players at major conference programs lifting weights. "Basketball players have been lifting for more than 30 years," he says. "The notion that they're bigger and stronger just because they started lifting weights is a bunch of crap. That can't explain it. You can't use that as an excuse."

Maybe Yesalis is wrong. Conte, too. Maybe I'm wrong. I'd like to be. I'd like to believe Turkoglu is a sad, bizarre outlier, that the reason only eight NBA players since 2000 have been caught and suspended for PED use is that NBA players don't use PEDs. Thing is, history suggests otherwise. Americans once scoffed at East Germany's no-good, very-bad, lyin' and cheatin' glow-in-the-dark Olympic athletes -- that is, until we learned that the United States Olympic Committee may have covered up more than 100 positive drugs tests for U.S. athletes who won 19 Olympics medals from 1988-2000. Mark McGwire wasn't here to talk about the past. In her 2004 autobiography, Marion Jones covered an entire page in large red letters reading: I AM AGAINST PERFORMANCE ENHANCING DRUGS. I HAVE NEVER TAKEN THEM AND I NEVER WILL TAKE THEM. Armstrong told his doubters that he was "sorry you don't believe in miracles." When the Carolina Panthers were caught up in a Super Bowl steroids scandal, not even their punter was immune. Years after his good boy sweater-wearing doping confession, Alex Rodriguez is allegedly still hanging out with Cousin Yuri. So it goes. Sports are awash in drugs. Why would professional basketball be any different? "It's the same story with all of these sports," Conte says. "If you have the financial incentive and the inept testing, and you are part of a culture where you believe your opponents are using drugs, you do what you have to do in order to be competitive. I'm not as familiar with NBA culture, but I know that all the same elements are there."

In 2004, Conte appeared on ABC's "20/20," giving an interview in which he fingered Jones and insisted that the Olympics were rife with PEDs, corruption and cover-ups. Many scoffed. Almost a decade later, he's gone from pariah to prophet, and his disquieting message -- the one that very well may apply to the same NBA that has built an entire unironic marketing campaign around the word big -- hasn't changed.

"There is no Santa Claus, Easter Bunny or Tooth Fairy," he says. "Not at the elite level of sport."

  

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ThaTruth
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60. "I wouldn't be shocked if Kobe was on something too, we all know..."
In response to Reply # 58


          

he'll do anything to gain a competitive advantage.

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

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Deebot
Member since Oct 21st 2004
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65. "cosign"
In response to Reply # 60


          

  

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Deebot
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64. "Good article"
In response to Reply # 58


          

I bet 80% of the NBA is doped up.

  

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pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
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66. "how did I not even hear about this?"
In response to Reply # 58


  

          


>
>Maybe you missed it. Probably you missed it. Earlier this
>week, Orlando Magic forward Hedo Turkoglu was suspended 20
>games by the NBA after testing positive for steroids.
>

and there was the story about how NBA players got around the olympic testing somehow too, right? that's not evidence to suggest anyone in particular was using, but i thought that story should've been bigger given the names on that team.

  

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Guinness
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67. "it's inevitable."
In response to Reply # 58


  

          

there's too much money at stake and the physical demands are too high. the NBA has gotten a pass because those who have been busted are minor, irrelevant figures. football more or less gets ignored too, despite it being obvious that they're heavily juicing.

the MLB is singled out because huge stars like a-rod, manny, mcguire, clemens and sosa were all implicated.



  

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3xKrazy
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68. "and because they told Congress to go fuck themselves"
In response to Reply # 67
Wed Mar-06-13 03:37 PM by 3xKrazy

          

>the MLB is singled out because huge stars like a-rod, manny,
>mcguire, clemens and sosa were all implicated.

had they cooperatively instituted testing (however bullshit it might have been) a la the NFL then they'd be getting the same level of scrutiny.

  

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Guinness
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69. "also true."
In response to Reply # 68


  

          

  

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pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
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Wed Mar-06-13 03:43 PM

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70. "two things to add"
In response to Reply # 67


  

          


Baseball fans tend to be more "traditionalist", and Football fans basically don't care. I can't exactly explain why Basketball fans/media don't care, but the fact that there have been zero high profile cases certainly helps.

  

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