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>
>>all i'm saying is he was believed to be a duke lean back as
>>far back as 1990, before juwan started cysing "the fab 5"
>and
>>pulled everyone to michigan. he was prolly closer wit g.
>hill
>>than any of them niggas. they saw each other enough at AAUs
>>and camps for several summers in a row to form a bond. chris
>>was staying with the hills when he came to the DMV for
>>tournaments and shit...not staying in the hotel playing
>>nintendo wit jalen.
>
>
>So?
>
>Jalen and Chris were friends back in Detroit. Of
>course he gonna go chill with the rich nigga he
>know in the other town.
jalen and chris knew each other. the idea that they were best friends and hung out all the time is and has always been a cyse.
>This don't mean shit but that Grant Hill had better
>Nintendo games than Jalen did in the dorm.
it meant chris made a decision.
>I used to shit on hood niggas all the time to go
>hang with white bols for the same reason
>
>You know better than this, Ba
you better than THIS. don't try to shame me with them identity tricks, dogg. i flat out don't care. i'm commenting on what i've come to understand about the relationships of teen basketball prodigies from people in DMV basketball circles who had first hand knowledge of what went down...you makin this about race. you are. not me. you are. not me. i can't help your instincts. i don't care about hatin on hood dudes to hang wit white folks and if you wanna equate what you did with cwebb ditching jalen to hang with the hills...cool. i ain't into all that.
>>but, if you wanna make it about a TO, let's make it about a
>>TO. jalen say the timeout changed chris, just fundamentally
>>altered who he was. jalen said all that. not me. chris
>became
>>distant and ain't wanna be bothered wit them dudes no more.
>
>
>Right.
my opinion.
>>from my perspective (this is my straight up no bullshit
>>opinion) chris prolly felt like he did his time and there
>was
>>no reason to pretend anymore.
>
>Pretend?
yes...pretend. he didn't like even like HALF of the other fab five members. they weren't some all-for-one force people tried to make 'em out to be.
>No, he distanced himself from it because losing a game
>at 19 can be that painful. And because of the Ed Martin
>scandal.
>
>I mean,
>
>Bill Buckner old as shit now and still be crying at press
>conferences.
>
>Buckner's thing happened in 1986. And he was a grown
>man when it happened. And he was a star player already.
>
>Why he still affected?
don't know. don't care. bad analogies do nothing for me. no one was yelling from the dugout for him to let the ball roll away.
>Because losing hurts. And it hurts worse when you're
>a kid.
>
>Had nothing to do with acting a certain way, or being
>from the hood, or blackness, etc
>
>Very Toure-ish perspective there.
yep...we playing that game, i guess. tryna...lol...tryna press them "identity" buttons. cool. YOU. not me.
>>by the time he was mature enough
>>to process it and his individualism set it, he prolly knew
>he
>>fucked up not being in a disciplined environment, FOCUSED ON
>>BASKETBALL, instead of spending two years partying, getting
>by
>>on pure talent, and being surrounded by a coach that was so
>>weak he created a culture of fuckupness and no
>accountability
>>so profound that several muhfuckas on that bench could yell
>>for chris to call a TO and then LIE about it later and put
>the
>>blame all on him.
>
>The "Steve Fisher let them run wild" meme is patently racist,
>and not true at all.
what's race have to do with fisher allowing a culture that was conducive to boosters have EASY access to his players? or allowing his players to become BIGGER than the program, which allowed for a lack of FOCUS in the biggest games of their careers...TWICE?
YOU. not me.
>a) The Fab 5 were actually one of the most unselfish teams
>in college basketball, which is how they got away with not
>having a classic point guard. That was all Fisher.
that's in-game strategery...nothing to do with off-court environment.
>(Fisher basically turned around SD state too; he might
>be no coach K, but he can coach).
don't care. only concerned with mich. and fab 5.
>They actually played astonishingly little one-on-one
>ball. They just barked and dunked and looked like they
>were enjoying themselves.
good for them.
>Jalen, Juwon and Chris were all outstanding passers in the
>NBA; one can easily trace this to the unselfishness that was
>emphasized at Michigan.
>
>b) All of them grew up to be outstanding, respectful men.
well...yeah. they WERE that coming in, which is what i've consistently said about 'em from jump. i liked 'em too...just not against my team. hey, i wanted them to beat UNC, too. oh well. i never understood how they were made into "bad" kids. jalen's whining about not being recruited by duke because of how he was perceived is a slap in the face of basic reasoning, bobby hurley, thomas hill and grant hill, all of whom played positions where jalen would have gotten tick at duke...but, waaaaaah...make it about some 'cism. come on...
>The book highlights how Jalen was actually the best student
>of all the them niggas. Ironically, he could have hung
>academically at either Michigan or Duke better than any
>starter on either...Bobby Hurley was not-so-bright, everyone
>knew that.
i. don't. care.
>>that shit don't happen at duke. somebody fuck up, K makes
>sure
>>them boys go down as a team. he blame EVERYONE, primarily
>>himself. there's a reason JJ Redick isn't seen as the
>biggest
>>choker in NCAA tournament history, despite shooting Duke out
>>the tourney every fuckin year he was there.
>
>Main reason JJ Redick don't go down as a choker because nobody
>
>gives a shit about JJ Redick anymore.
well, that's a lie (or simply not well-reasoned) because people care about fred brown...people who weren't even BORN at the time. he threw away g-town title and he still get fried. why? this isn't my opinion, it's fred's....he felt big john and his teammates didn't support him after that L and let him get fried.
>Chris Webber was the best player in the country, among the
>finest power forward prospects ever, on one of the most
>unique
>college basketball teams ever.
>So that's a bad comparison. All that other shit you're
>talking about is silly.
it's a bad comparison because he was better player than redick? how's that make sense again?
>>chris ain't have that kinda support system. and jalen wonder
>>why he don't wanna be bothered.
>
>Not even sure what this means. You're just making shit up.
means he took all the blame and said "fuck all them dudes...i don't wanna be bothered"
>Webber is distancing himself from the fab 5 for two
>reasons:
>
>a) the timeout loss still stings
this is true.
>b) the Ed Martin scandal was costly and threw a weird
>wrench into the whole dynamic
this isn't. if he were cool with them BEFORE that trial, he'd have been cool after. things were already cooled.
>If you want to say "Chris should not have gone to
>Michigan" then I'll give you that. Maybe being close
>to home and near Ed Martin and all that was too much.
or his coach and AD coulda created an environment where he was insulated from ed martins and it wouldn't have mattered.
>But that has nothing to do with Duke specifically.
not specifically...but, it's the best example considering he was down to duke and mich.
>Let's not play armchair psychologist colored by Duke
>fandom. None of the shit you said has anything to do
>with it.
it does only because he was down to duke and michigan. obviously, if i hadn't followed his recruitment closely and thus DIDN'T CARE...i prolly wouldn't even be commenting on this. at all.
>>hey, i was a webber fan either way, but as much as we can't
>>predict the future...damn, he shoulda took his ass to duke.
>he
>>almost went to jail from playing identity politics at 17.
>
>Identity politics?
>
>Umm
um...webber's words. NOT MINE. he equated UNLV beating duke with the civil rights movement. NOT ME. now, if he said that as a grown ass man speaking in on his feelings as a teen, imagine the PRESSURE he felt to identify with THIS SIDE rather than THAT side. i don't have to make up anything. i know what was said.
>Quick question:
>
>How many early entries did Duke have in 1991?
none. quick question. how many duke players before grant hill, who didn't need to leave early and didn't WANT to leave early, had early entry talent?
>Right.
riiiiiiight.
>Leaving early was less welcome at Duke, Chris did
>not have stay 4-year talent.
chris was being recruited with full-knowledge that he'd leave early, just like elton brand was just a few years later.
oh.
>And Laettner earned no friends in the hood by stepping
>on old boys face.
*partying* NIGGA...i. don't. care. that's your FEELINGS. it has nothing to do with what we're talking about.
>And UNLV had captivated America.
agreed. i liked 'em.
>And his actual friend (not just some nigga he exploited
>for better video games) was leaning Michigan.
feelings...
>And he would have another freshman frontcourt mate,
>a nigga he grew to like.
i won't deny he felt comfort with jalen and juwan. but there was also undeniable pressure to roll with them instead of being an uncle tom. *shrug*...if there weren't, his recruitment would have been incredibly anti-climactic. buuuuuuuutt...it's wasn't. he thought about it.
>And he'd be close to family.
true.
>And Michigan State botched their chances by harassing
>him on a recruiting trip (its in the book; young Tom
>Izzo, assistant to Heathcoate had the inside track on Webber)
don't care.
>And Michigan is an outstanding academic institution.
agreed. and, if i could make a completely irrelevant racial aside like you've been doing....it's WHITER than duke and graduates far less of its black student athletes. so does Georgetown. but, they soooooo black. so black.
>So:
>
>a) There were plenty of good reasons for him to go to
>Michigan
>
>b) As he is among the 10 best power forwards to ever play,
>any talk of what he could have done better is silly. He had
>a great career.
he coulda gone to duke and blown out a knee. what do i know? just my opinion, in case you missed it the first time, dogg.
>Just stop, Ba.
my opinion, based on the information. ____________________________________________________
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Kyrie: I wasn't.
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