Chill out, uncle

http://www.straightouttavancouver.com/2013/2/1/3940904/hollins-sounds-off-on-rudy-gay-trade

According to John Rohde in The Oklahoman‘s recap of last night’s Grizzlies-Thunder game, Lionel Hollins had this to say about the Grizzlies’ trade of Rudy Gay to the Toronto Raptors:

When you have champagne taste, you can’t be on a beer budget. It’s a small market and I understand the economics of being in a small market.

So. Take this little quote nugget, combined with the fact that Hollins was openly lobbying for the trade not to be made, combined with the fact that Hollins played recent acquisition Jon Leuer 5 minutes in a game where he only had nine players in uniform, and it’s starting to look like Lionel Hollins is trying not to get a contract extension.

You really have to wonder what Hollins’ strategy here is. I dunno. He’s a guy that speaks his mind, and always says exactly what he thinks, but it does seem like he’s needling the front office in the media whenever he gets an opportunity. Which might not be great for his tenure as the Grizzlies’ head coach.

Which is fine I suppose, if you keep it to yourself. Worry about the team's performance, whoever those 12 guys are, and leave the roster building to the management team.

I understand his frustration with losing a good player, but he's showing a glaring lack of perspective. He's been with Memphis for 11 years and still doesn't get it? Cmon Lionel.


That being said your owner is on the clock. If he doesn't allow his guys to be aggressive and spend this offseason you, and Lionel, have a right to be livid. He just bought the fucking team for 350+ million. Your window with the Gasol/Randolph interior advantage is limited, so now is the time.

>That being said your owner is on the clock. If he doesn't
>allow his guys to be aggressive and spend this offseason you,
>and Lionel, have a right to be livid. He just bought the
>fucking team for 350+ million. Your window with the
>Gasol/Randolph interior advantage is limited, so now is the
>time.

Hollins has been here 11 years
everytime something drastic to the roster happens, he's forced to play a new lineup that works
we saw it when Xavier Henry got injured and he was forced to play Tony Allen more. WHOLE TEAM OUTLOOK CHANGED
we saw it when Rudy got the shoulder injury. WILD Z-BO APPEARS
i'm seriously afraid he's gonna hold Tony Wroten back. but he actually looks like the 2nd PG thats not gonna end up in his PG shit list.

I can't figure him out at all. He can get to the rim like a legitimate NBA shooting guard, he can hit an open jumper, and he has terrific athleticism.

But he sucks.

you can have Bayless

Nor have they had a win EVER outlook.




At least you still have Gasol and Zach

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You can't send someone to war with a KFC spork and wave cap filled with Fruit Loops and expect them to come out alive.

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

they kinda talked about it last night
but gay was one of what...maybe two guys on that team who can create his own shot in a high pressure situation
simple shit like the fact he can stretch the perimeter (40% or not) and prevent defenders from collapsing on zach is kinda being ignored
i don't even like gay but ppl are acting like u just plug efficiency #s into a spread sheet and out comes a final score
there are risks associated wit the move

~~~~~~

idk what Grizzlies games you were watching but Rudy didnt spread any kind of floor
defenders cheated off of Rudy most of the time

Zach's numbers may go down now cause he wont have so many bricks to save

and the deadline isn't here
so you can believe they're gonna use that trade exception on a good outside option

or what ever other guns out there that memphis would take in a heartbeat despite having comparable (or lower) career efficiency #'s

and it's rumored that memphis might try to dump zach and/or gasol next for what that's worth

~~~~~~

he was too inefficent
and didnt fit into the system
he just didn't
we're a small market so if the contracts are big, they gotta be All-Star level to justify it
there was no way we were gonna win a title with Rudy
there just wasn't
if you couldn't see that then idk
it was Rudy's team before 2011
now its Z-Bo and Tony's team


and them trading Z-Bo and Marc is preposterous
there's no way Z-Bo is getting delt in the next two years.
and Marc is gonna be here a good long while with Darrell in the wings.

Kobe's PER for his career is 23.44.
Melo's PER for his career is 20.62.
Gay's PER for his career is 16.1.

While their FG% numbers are close, their true shooting percentages are notably different.
Kobe: .555
Melo: .545
Gay: .526

If you do or don't believe in win share, know that Kobe and Melo unsurprisingly beat Gay in that stat as well.

Even if you don't believe in advanced stats, the fact that for their careers, Melo and Kobe plays similar minutes to Gay and shoot similar FG% to Gay... but score a notable amount of more points than Gay... says something on its own.

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ball in the hoop
his %s from the floor are comparable
i'd expect their ts% to be higher...they get superstar calls and probably have higher USG% (go run and check that for me, thanks)

~~~~~~

gay shoots 40% from the floor and never gets to the foul line. plus, he shoots only 31% from 3PT, which makes him less of a threat to stretch the defense than pondexter, ellington or conley. gay has played better in the past, but he's been bad across the board on offense this year. he also has a 1:1 assist/turnover ratio, so it's not like he's drawing defenders and getting people easy looks.

>so it's not like he's drawing defenders
>and getting people easy looks.

i said career...
even ppl that think the trade was bad have acknowledged that he's been shitty this year
and not sure what shooting % or assist/to ratio has to do with him creating space....
the ball doesn't even have to be in his hands for him to do that
smh, this is when stat heads start sounding dumb creating logical fallacies and/or completely ignoring obvious factors not encapsulated in the numbers
have you any lineup +/-'s to counter with?

~~~~~~

gay is shooting 31% from 3 this season and is 2-18 from the baseline. are you suggesting that other teams are unaware of his struggles from those areas and close out as aggressively as if he were ray allen?

the point is that he's NOT punishing teams for doubling the post, and he's not creating easy baskets via ball movement either. look, gay has had a couple decent years before, so i'm not going say he can't play better, but he's been worthless on offense this season.

Hell even Joe Johnson has games where he gets off and games where he disappears.

Defenses have to be wary of him and can't collapse low on Lopez, which helps Lopez continue to get off.



Memphis doesn't have anyone to even respect from the perimeter.

Hell if they had kept Mayo, they would at least be still tough to defend.


We shall see how long this 4 seed lasts

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http://s17.postimg.org/6r7bfqpnz/kyrieglass.jpg - They Call Him Mr. Glass

we dealt rudy so now we have so much room, its insane
we're getting the perimeter taken care of

Memphis has the fourth best team in the west. They were starting Rudy Gay, 27th at his position in PER. Out of the top 50 SFs in the NBA today in PER, Rudy's true shooting percentage is only higher than Trevor Ariza, Michael Beasley, Marquis Daniels, Jae Crowder, and Ronnie Brewer.

I don't like Ed Davis as an All-Star or anything, but with increased minutes, he should make up for the rebounds lost while playing better defense. And while neither Davis, Prince, nor Daye can individually be as aggressive on offense as Gay can, they can all be more efficient at shot selection. Gay might light it up on the occasional night better than any of them can... but none of them will have the gall to shoot Memphis out of a game like Gay's done twice in the last two weeks against the Pacers and the Hornets.

The rest of their roster is still absolutely fine. Obviously having to teach new players your system halfway through a successful season must be frustrating. But Hollins is a good coach and will get the job done.

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Gay's cap number assured the Grizz that they would be essentially stuck with this roster for another 2 seasons.

Trading him ASAP was critical because it will allow them to make other moves before this year's deadline, as well as into the offseason. Sooner than later was the best course of action. They weren't winning the chip this year anyway, so it was the best time to do it.


So all this talk about what they will miss without Rudy is too short sighted. NOT having Rudy gives them way more options, without taking away the difference maker on a title contender. He clearly wasn't it.

Do I think they'll win a title? No. Do I think without Gay they can be an effective enough team to raise some serious eyebrows? Absolutely.

I think the Gay move is mostly about the money, but the dude is also chucking shots like crazy and shooting under 41% on the year, while simultaneously not contributing much on defense. They can honestly be a better team with other players.

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OKC are kind of our natural rivals and we're just built to compete with each other evenly despite the talent on that team

Tony doesn't score.

Marc doesn't score a lot.

Who's gonna get these points? Jerryd Bayless?

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

... I firmly believe their goal with the current roster to run more efficient sets on offense and clamp down more effectively on defense. Both of which are doable without Gay.

And again, while I don't like Ed Davis, he HAS been scoring 14 ppg on 55% shooting in January, whereas Gay has been scoring 16 ppg on 40% shooting.

So it's not THAT far off.

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he isn't anything super special but he's shown flashes of better than most and is just a touch below gay's scoring averages as a starter.

he scores more when he's at the 2 behind Mike

.

...I'm from the era when A.I. was the answer, now they think ai is the answer - Marlon Craft

Hollins knows it was stupid


Yet Grizzles fans seem to act like he was nothing to their team.

Enjoy your PBR and Wild Irish Rose while you just sent Toronto a bottle of Krug Clos d'Ambonnay 1995


Hollins ready to peace out too.

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probably

Rudy is a great player, but he was just paid too much to an inefficient 3rd option.

It gets the job done if used over a long enough period of time, but you can find a cheaper, more delicious, and more efficient way of getting drunk.

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this is probably the best way its been put

http://t.co/GaIHgTel

basically draft well and make smart decisions on who to keep and who to dump
i think it's interesting that both memphis and okc did their salary dumps before they had to.....and in years they were expected to make playoff runs
wonder if it's some salary implications we don't know about related to something in the new cba

HANG TIME SOUTHWEST – As Memphis, $37 million lighter after Wednesday’s dumping of Rudy Gay, visits Oklahoma City tonight, crystallized further is the small-market Thunder standing as the league’s one-and-only Super Team built to survive this new era under a sharp-toothed collective bargaining agreement.

The Super Team era is dead and the staggering luxury tax penalties that take effect next season scared Memphis straight into a salary sell-off. The Grizzlies moved lesser pieces in a deal last week that spared them from the last of the dollar-for-dollar tax penalty this season and could have allowed them to take one more postseason stab with its core four — Gay, Zach Randolph, Marc Gasol and Mike Conley.

But the Grizzlies’ new ownership and management groups decided not even to do that. Gay is now a Raptor. Who knows where Randolph and Gasol will be come July?

Soon even LeBron James and the Super Friends might have to short-circuit LeBron’s “not one, not two, not three…” proclamation because the owners’ demands in the CBA is squeezing the three superstar model onto life support. LeBron, Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh will be owed a combined $62 million in the 2014-15 season before which all three can opt out. That three-player total already tops this season’s salary cap and is just $8 million from entering the luxury tax.

Starting next season, the luxury tax penalty increases incrementally with each $5 million over the threshold.

The Lakers? The Nets? The Knicks? The Spurs? The Bulls? Name another team with a core as young, as talented and as manageably locked up as the Thunder with All-Stars Kevin Durant and Russell Westbrook and ever-emerging big man Serge Ibaka. Surely not the Grizzlies. Perhaps the Los Angeles Clippers if they re-sign Chris Paul this summer to pair long term with Blake Griffin.

“We like our team,” Durant told NBA.com recently. “ Sam Presti, Troy , do a great job of putting everything together and making it work, bringing great guys in here that fit with each other, making money fit, the salary cap, all that stuff. They make that work and we really trust them in every decision they make because they always try to put our team in position to do well.”

Presti and Co. made their difficult-but-necessary CBA-related move just days before the start of the season, further confirmation that the three superstar era is as good as dead when they gave up on signing James Harden and traded him to Houston. The deal netted sharpshooter Kevin Martin, and any criticism of the CBA pistol-whipping OKC into a chemistry-disrupting deal on the heels of an NBA Finals appearance evaporated with its seamless transition and fast start.

“We got rid of James, that had to happen, but we didn’t get rid of KD,” OKC coach Scott Brooks said. “We’re going to be good for a long time. KD is still here and Russell, and we have some young guys that are improving. Serge is only 23. Jeremy Lamb (Houston’s No. 12 overall pick acquired in the Harden deal), he hasn’t played much, but he has a chance to be really good, he’s only 20. Thabeet, he’s not a known guy, then we’ve got some first-round picks.

“So we’re excited about where we’re going, but still we want to win a championship now. We’re not playing for next season or the next season after. We’re like every team, if you have a chance to win you want to win now.”

The Thunder are the favorite to return to the NBA Finals and a combination of shrewd decisions and foresight by the front office, good timing and great luck have positioned them to rule the West, if not the league, for seasons to come. No other team has such desirable young talent locked up for the long haul and locked into contracts that make it at least possible to swim around the luxury tax line of doom without being financially severed by the sharks.

Durant and Westbrook are 24, and Ibaka, incredibly, is only 23. Durant is already signed to a max deal through 2015-16 and Westbrook is too, and through 2016-17. Ibaka signed an extension in the offeseason and is on board through 2016-17 on a reasonable deal that will begin to pay him $12.3 million next season.

Martin becomes a free agent after this season. With just one playoff series in his first eight seasons with Sacramento and Houston, Martin, who is making more than $12 million this season, says he wants to re-sign with OKC.

And if OKC needs an escape hatch, Presti still holds the amnesty card, which he can use, if he so chooses, next offseason on a player such as center Kendrick Perkins, who will earn $18.6 million over the next two seasons.

“Our management does a great job of putting the right people around the organization,” Westbrook said. “It’s showing and it should help us out for years to come.”

The new CBA is ending the Super Team era and it threatens any young building team with uncomfortable decisions and short-term cohesion.

At the moment, no team is better positioned to conquer it than the Thunder.

~~~~~~

Same way San Antonio has one and avoided big luxury tax bills: Draft Tim Duncan.

Unfortunately, most teams don't get that chance.

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NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

especially since both the thunder and spurs built deep and relatively cheap rosters with players that fit the team mold perfectly
lebron is arguably more talented than both durant and duncan and we see how cleveland squandered that

~~~~~~

They dealt Harden because they felt they couldn't afford Durant, Wessy, Harden, AND Ibaka.

To say they "built cheaply" ignores that they had a top four pick each of the years following Durant being drafted, lol.

The Spurs are a huge exception to any franchise rule, as no other team has been able to do what they've done.

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first thing i said was....draft well
because having a high pick doesn't mean much of shit if you don't have a vision and get the picks right...see current cavs
anyway,thunder drafted well with the non/late lotto picks(ibeka,collison, maynor)
dumped well (green, harden) in exchange for effective replacements (perk,martin)
and they scooped excellent role players for relative bargains (thabo,thabeet)

~~~~~~

Yes, my comment was oversimplified but the Cavs are a great example of how getting a superstar makes a difference. The Cavs were one of the worst run teams in basketball and still made the NBA Finals because of LeBron.

Swap out Kevin Durant and Rudy Gay and suddenly the Grizzlies' front office are geniuses and the Thunder are dealing with Westbrook, Harden and Ibaka and trying to make ends meet while being more than an also-ran.

The Thunder have obviously draft well but when the front office will really earn their money is in a couple of years when Durant, Ibaka, and Westbrook are eating up 5/6's of the salary cap. Will they be able to afford all three guys and fill out the roster? As it stands, they already can't afford Perkins's overpaid contract and might amnesty him. Thabeet is a bum and will never be anything more than a guy who can eat a few minutes here and there.

The Thunder have obviously drafted well and done better at building a team than the Cavs did but they'll have issues when KD comes due for his next contract as well.

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NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

And they'll do better in the postseason without Rudy-- they'll be even stronger on defense, they'll be more efficient on offense. They may score fewer points per game, but they'll be more effective per possession on both ends of the floor.

As folks who've watched Rudy over the years know, while the boy can put up numbers if he shoots enough, and he has games where he can light it up, he also has the capacity to shoot you out of a game. No point in having that on the floor when potentially facing teams as talented as OKC. Efficiency is the name of the game.

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>Efficiency is the
>name of the game.

last night was a night of mourning, really. we probably still would have lost regardless.

besides, i really dont even think this is gonna be the final post roster

Why stay on a team that is clearly going to be swapping out their current players for cheaper options? He won't be unemployed for long and could find himself in a better position than Memphis. Hell, he could go from a cheap owner to the richest since the Nets could be looking for a coach in the offseason.

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NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

>Why stay on a team that is clearly going to be swapping out
>their current players for cheaper options?

you mean BETTER options

I agree Rudy had to go but they just made a lateral move mid-season for financial reasons. And the primary owner simply can't afford to own an NBA team and never should have been okayed by the Board of Governors.

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NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

plus whatever piece we pick up this month

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

Noon CST
http://www.nba.com/grizzlies/mvp-live-chat-13
http://www.helloloser.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Mj-thriller-popcorn-o.gif

dumb trade.
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if you really want to win a championship, you shouldn't be making trades where finances trump basketball

Which is a business, first and foremost.

What is the diconnect here? Its all the same. There is literally no roster decision made in the NBA that is not in some way a financial one. And with a small market like Memphis the financial implications are amplified.

These are not fantasy squads. They have real budgets, with real money, and very real cap rules that have to be followed.


Make one good argument, taking into account the important financial, cap-related info, as to how keeping Gay put them in a position to win big? How do they accomplish this with NO cap space and an owner refusing to go into the luxury tax?

You can't.

>How do they accomplish this with NO cap
>space and an owner refusing to go into the luxury tax?
>
>You can't.

exactly. The problem is an owner who has prioritized saving money over putting together the best team

idk why people cant understand he was the odd man out of this team
you can't just watch 4 grizzlies games or go off of the 2 games you saw in 2006

like Rudy's underperfomance has been an epidemic for almost 2 seasons

that's why the OKC trade of harden was so silly to me. they didn't even have to trade him before this season, either.

that said, gay isn't very good, and ditching his contract *was* about basketball in that it means they can use the money on a better player.

OK City knew Harden wanted a max deal and they wouldn't pay that. A mid-season trade would have shaken up the team and they might not have gotten as much since it would have been harder for teams to negotiate a contract and they wouldn't give up as much for what might be a half season. Also, they'd get even more shit than they had before the season because they'd be breaking up a team mid-run.

Atlanta would have gotten more for Josh Smith had they dealt for him during the season or on draft night. Ditto for Utah with Milsap and Jefferson. Bynum and Howard won't command as much now.

In terms of return on asset and PR, trading Harden before the season was the only option.

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NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

they also could have signed harden to an extension (which doesn't kick in until next season anyway) and entertained offers for both him and westbrook after the season. or the billionaire owners could have said HEY WE'RE FUCKING PRINTING MONEY HERE and eaten the lux tax to keep an absurdly good foursome together.

my point is that if the thunder don't win a title this season--and they might anyway--ownership broke up a superior team due to financial considerations (i.e. greed). and considering martin is a free agent after this year, they diminished this season's title chances for a couple draft picks and jeremy lamb (do you REALLY think they couldn't have gotten two first-round picks for harden on the open market following this season?).

we'll see what happens. if OKC doesn't win a chip this season and those picks don't pan out...well, they gave up a top 5 scorer for very little to show for it.

in a deadline deal with no pre-arranged extension.

>they also could have signed harden to an extension (which
>doesn't kick in until next season anyway) and entertained
>offers for both him and westbrook after the season. or the
>billionaire owners could have said HEY WE'RE FUCKING PRINTING
>MONEY HERE and eaten the lux tax to keep an absurdly good
>foursome together.

The new CBA makes the luxury tax so brutal that even the Lakers were cutting payroll this offseason. And signing Harden this year and then trying to trade him would have been a risk because they'd only be able to trade him to teams that could eat his full contract (or they'd have to take back salary which would put them over the cap.)
Also, another stinker like the Finals or an injury and he's a lot harder to deal.

>we'll see what happens. if OKC doesn't win a chip this season
>and those picks don't pan out...well, they gave up a top 5
>scorer for very little to show for it.

I'd say that the issue isn't when they traded Harden, it's who they traded Harden instead of.

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NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

https://twitter.com/MikePradaSBN/status/297428831822807040

@MikePradaSBN
I approve. RT @YourManDevine: No, seriously -- we should probably start calling him Rudy "Champagne" Gay.

Rudy good to get away...

When you leave Memphis, your numbers go up and teams realize how to utilize your skills

True Story

http://i46.tinypic.com/opa88g.jpg

men are so simple, and so subject to present necessities, that he who seeks to deceive will always find someone who will allow himself to be deceived. (c)Niccolò Machiavelli

Odd how everyone is so understanding on this one. Where's Pop on this? I understand the purpose of this deal and see why it's a good deal. It's more of a talent swape than the Pau trade, but it's not far from that when you look at the financial element, which is the primary reason for both deals.

Comically better. Insult to Pau to even suggest such a thing. Of course most people are ok with this, Rudy is a disgustingly overpaid chucker. Pau was a super efficient all star in his prime, who was at worst a slight underachiever at that point in his career.

In fact, I don't see any legit comparisons here at all outside of the salary numbers of the main two guys involved.

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NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

AND

Rudy didn't lead the Grizz in almost every statistical category




if you want something comprable, it would be like Minnesota trading Kevin Love to OKC for Haseem Thabeet, Eric Maynor and 2 draft picks....and them signing and trading Michael Redd for cap purposes

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nice try

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http://s17.postimg.org/6r7bfqpnz/kyrieglass.jpg - They Call Him Mr. Glass

but nice try i guess.