"Andy Reid vs Joe Paterno (Contrast)" Tue Aug-07-12 10:13 PM by low2behold
Who would've thought that through all of the winning and running out on the field with their respective teams, Andy Reid (not Joe Paterno) would have the better legacy.
EVERYBODY and their wives/girlfriends (and in some cases: mom) were at Garret Reid's funeral today to show Andy Reid love. Donovan McNabb, John Harbaugh and Roger Goodell were there along with the entire current Eagles roster.
Brian Westbrook even took some time out to show his support. I'm missing a whole bunch of people cuz i'm sure Dawk was there.
This Eagles family is strong and I'm proud to be a fan.
Its a shame what happened in Happy Valley especially when they pinned the blame on the freshly laid to rest body of arguably one of the best coaches in NCAA history. Im not overshadowing Joe Paterno's role in the Sandusky tragedy by any means because more could have been done, but at least he reported it.
likewise, grew up with a philadelphia pedigree and a beyond vested/scholarly interest, I wholeheartedly agree.. each of them are invaluable icons who have been (and will be) indiscriminately shitted on behind incurably asinine logic --- to hell&beyond with anyone who says differently ~ mahalo
4. "What is it with Pennsylvanians?" In response to Reply # 0
Joe Peterno did a terrible thing and I wish he were still alive to see the consequences of his actions. His friend was raping kids...literally the worst crime you can do...and Paterno let it slide. Every single bit of blame he is getting for this is well deserved, and every rational person knows that.
Why can people from Pennsylvania not grasp this? The man is almost literally a God in that state. Nobody believes that old man could EVER have done anything wrong. It's disgusting. He covered up for an evil pedophile. Just accept it. It's not some conspiracy theory made up by people who hate Penn State. Nobody gives enough of a crap about Penn State to hate them. Just accept that the man you unhealthily idolized was not what you thought he was.
--------- ------------------ "Did you want to be a critic as a child? Or did your dreams die with your humility?" - Arian Foster to Colin Cowherd
14. "From Central PA and East they do this, not all of PA" In response to Reply # 4
Over here on the West Half the general thought is with the rest of the country with the exception of alums still drinking the kool aid.
Something about Philly, probably having no other college fb to root for most of their lives (Temple doesn't count) makes people who didnt even go to PSU get as crazy for them as actual students. _____________________ <---- At least we have this
22. "Yeah, I have fam in Philly and I never got the sense that the city" In response to Reply # 19
and its people were very pro-Paterno in light of the scandal. Where I live I would say there's definitely more a pro-Paterno/PSU sentiment, but it's nowhere near as bad as the poster above is describing it. Surprisingly the PSU scandal isn't discussed (outside of the media) near as much as a lot of outsiders here on OKP are describing it to be (at least from my own personal experience). I've been to numerous social functions where the scandal and PSU football wasn't discussed at all. But again, that's just my own experience.
72. "There are PSU bars everywhere" In response to Reply # 48
L2B and SPM aren't doing the argument any favors, but I will give Philly one complement in that it's not as mind-numbingly pro-Paterno/PSU as most of the rest of the state. My travels through the state (I will argue I've seen more of Pennsylvania than most of the people from Philly on this board), I've gotten the distinct impression that outside of 276, "anti-Philly" exists and, because of that void, PSU is the rest of the state's sports religion until you get into Steelers territory.
73. "PA is basically 3 parts, West, central and Philly" In response to Reply # 72
West includes Erie and Pittsburgh, Philly obviously and Central is everything an hour east of PGH and an hour West of Philly
I'd say the Paterno idol breakdown is like this
Central PA: 95% of population Philly: 30% of population West: 15% of population
No real stats to break this down obviously, but I still think Eastern PA has more Paterno obsessed people than Western just because Pittsburgh has the entire Pitt population that hates Penn State where as if you are into CFB out East you are probably a Penn State fan. _____________________ <---- At least we have this
Erie is weird. Has the same vibe as Buffalo. I wasn't overwhelmed with any affiliation when i was up there and it shares more in common with western New York than PA. That entire corner of the state is backwoods and strange, too day-to-day to care about sports that aren't hunting (if you consider it a sport); ever been to Kane? Fucking weird place.
I'd say once you get on the other side of Indiana, you are in PSU country. And the people in-between there and Pittsburgh care far more about the Steelers than any college sports.
On the other side, I've never gotten the same backwoods/PSU Pennsylvania vibe anywhere say south of Allentown or east of Reading.
I did a swing in March that started in Pittsburgh and went through Dubois/Clearfield/Cresson/Altoona/Huntington/Carlisle/Harrisburg; the PSU misery was palpable once I got on the other side of batshit crazy Punxatawney and didn't let up until around Chambersburg and Maryland. God love the Mennonites for not giving a shit.
75. "i'm sipping on coffee in a cafe just north of spring garden right now" In response to Reply # 48
>that PSU vs Temple game is always a big draw
lol. "big draw" because temple games normally get a couple thousand. and there are a lot of alumni (Philly is the biggest city in the state after all). no one except the alumni care.
>and there are even bars like Mad River that cater to the PSU >crowd on saturday afternoons
here's what's really funny. guess what bar just shut the fuck down in old city? Yep--Mad River. I don't count manayunk as "philly." (jk. sorta).
there are also a ton of steelers bars--does that mean philly likes the steelers more than the eagles? no. just that there are enough transplants to populate a couple bars once a week. ooooo.
----------- It's only funny till someone gets mad. Then it's hilarious.
20. "This is like the 10th comment you made ripping the state of PA" In response to Reply # 4
relax, we get it, you hate us....
Yeah, an unhealthy amount of Pennsylvanian's are embarrasing themselves with their reactions to recent events. But to cast the whole state and it's people as worthless and whatever other adjectives you've used seems pretty ridiculous to me. I've traveled/met enough people in my life to understand that while PA does have some shit towns/people there are plenty of other states filled with shit towns/people too.
21. "The defensive comments just make me sick man." In response to Reply # 20
I've had people close to me abused sexually before, and it ruined them. Seeing these people who don't seem to care at all about the victims or want to downplay it just *KILLS* me, man. Absolutely kills me. I just can't explain in words how much the "Yeah, he raped some kids, but let us play FOOTBALL!" or the head in the sand stuff irks me.
--------- ------------------ "Did you want to be a critic as a child? Or did your dreams die with your humility?" - Arian Foster to Colin Cowherd
27. "One of my closest friend's was sexually abused as a child and" In response to Reply # 21
grew up for a considerable time in his life in PA and attended PSU and was a huge supporter of the football team. Naturally, he's disgusted by those who helped enable Sandusky for so many years. You honestly don't think there are other PSU students, perhaps even former players, who were victims of sexual abuse as well??? Your posts indicate that you feel all of Pennsylvanian's don't care about child abuse and are enablers/Joe Pa apologists. As I stated before, yes there is certainly an unhealthy amount of Joe PA loyalists in this state, and I am ashamed at how many folks are responding to recent events. But again, it ain't everyone.
I have no problems with you or anybody bashing PSU kool-aid drinkers/Joe Pa loyalists, it's just when you characterize a whole state an its people is what seems a bit overboard to me.
------------------------- “The other dude after me didn’t help my case. It was just like…crazy nigga factory going on.” Dre makes no apologies for his own eccentricities. “I was young, and searching, trying to find myself,” he says. “Never did.”-- Andre B
6. "further proof of why Penn State needs 4 year death penalty" In response to Reply # 0
> >Its a shame what happened in Happy Valley especially when they >pinned the blame on the freshly laid to rest body of arguably >one of the best coaches in NCAA history. Im not overshadowing >Joe Paterno's role in the Sandusky tragedy by any means >because more could have been done, but at least he reported >it. > motherfuckers STILL DON'T GET IT.
"at least he reported it"
i'm not even going to comment on that last statement....just gonna walk away from it.
23. "its actually stupisad. perfectly balanced combo of pathos and wtf- " In response to Reply # 15
ness that makes one shake their head in slack-jawed disbelief.
in the annals of axe grinding, bait-and-switching and quadruple-backflip conclusion jumping, this shit is taking an individual gold and seriously threatening for an all around in msg board fuckery.
lets take one thing that even the ridiculously contentious oks almost unanimously agrees upon, and then surgically graft that onto an agenda to cop pleas for a decades long enabler of a serial child rapist.
makes a LOT of fucking sense.
paterno should have lived to witness his legacy go down in flames.
30. "Why stop at Andy Reid? Why not Rich Kotite? " In response to Reply # 0 Wed Aug-08-12 01:51 PM by ConcreteCharlie
You could pretty much pick anyone and prop them up compared with Paterno and say "WHO WOULD HAVE THOUGHT!?!"
As for Paterno, I think the one thing in the emails and Freeh report that came out was that he was not being "unfairly" pinned just because he was the most prominent person here. They discussed the allegations with him and he wasn't comfortable going to the authorities. He was about as complicit as his worst critics claimed, really.
I don't think it's entirely a situation where he wrote a legacy with his right hand and erased it with his left. He still built the university, he still strengthened college football in the entire region, he still sent a ton of guys onto successful careers in football and elsewhere and he still stood for a lot of the right things in the coaching world.
That said, it's all tarnished because when it came time to really show his integrity, he wilted completely.
31. "this isn't really clarified in the report tho...." In response to Reply # 30
>As for Paterno, I think the one thing in the emails and Freeh >report that came out was that he was not being "unfairly" >pinned just because he was the most prominent person here. >They discussed the allegations with him and he wasn't >comfortable going to the authorities. He was about as >complicit as his worst critics claimed, really. > >
people are still making assumptions about what paterno thought/knew vis a vis severity the report details some emails that mention that the dude went to paterno about the situation and paterno said he wanted to be kept abreast..... WE ALREADY KNEW THAT first of all 2ndly it still doesn't outline exactly what JoePa knew or if he understood the complete implications which was the only thing up for debate after week 1 of this shit
41. "But it was evident in the exchange of emails btw Paterno, the athletic" In response to Reply # 31
director and the school president that all were aware of what Sandusky had done and initially the athletic director stated he was going to the authorities w/the info abt Sandusky and the following emails btw the athletic director and the president of the university showed the next day that he (the athletic director) "talked it over w/Paterno the previous night and that they decided to wait before going to the authorities, that they were going to go the subject (Sandusky) first."
It is willfully naive on anyone's part to think thee most powerful person on the entire campus of Penn St. and one of the most powerful ppl in the state of Pennsylvania was in the dark on this matter.
McCreary said he explicitly told Paterno he witnessed something *sexual* in the shower btw Sandusky and a young boy. Now, the Paterno family tries to act as if its a mitigating factor that Paterno didn't fully know what McCreary witnessed therefore he should be absolved in this sordid and tragic story because McCreary didn't outright say he saw Sandusky rape someone...but that is complete bullshit...as an adult and authority figure that Paterno was, all he needed to hear was something sexual taking place btw an adult staff member of his football team and a minor and that bit of info alone should've been enough to compell him to act. And if the athletic director and president were slow to act or weren't going to do nothing at all, you're telling me Paterno couldn't have went over those guys heads to get the proper authorities involved to make sure the football program was not harboring a pedophile on its staff?
If Paterno wasn't fully aware of what had occurred btw Sandusky and the boy in the shower, he wouldn't have said before he died that "I know I should've done more." I just don't understand how anyone could believe Paterno didn't know one of his closest friends and a longtime staff member on the football program had been accused of molesting a child on the campus of Penn St. and in the shower of the football team. If he was in the dark to that degree, then he should've been long retired from coaching as many of his critics were saying during that time.
46. "Nah, that's what I said initially before I saw the emails...after seeing" In response to Reply # 43
the exchange of emails, I said Paterno along w/the athletic director and the school's president all need to be brought up on charges w/Sandusky...
explain to me how Paterno could not know? how was this man kept in the dark who was known for being a micromanager of his football team? Here you have your 2nd hand man accused of molesting a boy(s) in the shower and somehow Paterno knew very little abt it. Nah, its evident he made a decision to protect his football program rather than protect the innocent victims from his pedophile friend.
The emails exposed Paterno and the other school administrators involved.
52. "who is arguing that?" In response to Reply # 46
Paterno said he found out and he acted on it how HE felt he should...... what he found out or how he felt about what he found out is the only debate unfortunately that's what most of yall are hinging ur hateful vengeance on while the PSU community is trying to rebuild and move on
77. "RE: who is arguing that?" In response to Reply # 52
>Paterno said he found out and he acted on it how HE felt he >should......
But they didn't act on it, they decided to wait it out according to the emails btw Paterno and the athletic director...the athletic director told the school president in an email that he and Paterno discussed what should be done going forward and they decided they were going to hold out on going to the authorities and that they would consult w/the "subject first" (Sandusky) abt what occurred in the showers. Once Paterno was ousted from Penn St., he openly admitted he should've done more.
If Joe Paterno was resolute in getting to the bottom abt what happened, then he could've done just that - because we're talking abt a child predator here, not some coach who was seen giving a wad of cash to a player so it was encumbent on Paterno to make sure that this properly dealt with...instead he set his friend up w/a pension fund and kept him on as an assistant coach.
>what he found out or how he felt about what he found out is >the only debate >unfortunately that's what most of yall are hinging ur hateful >vengeance on while the PSU community is trying to rebuild and >move on
The Penn St. community in fact is still in denial abt this whole thing. They're still more concerned abt their football program and the punishment leveled against it than they are for the victims of Sandusky.
33. "15K people went to JoePa funeral" In response to Reply # 0
and the reality is people who support what he stood for/did will continue to ride for him they already are now the irrational mob of people hating paterno and PA residents? meh what are they doing RIGHT NOW to prevent this type of thing from happening in their community? what are they doing to help current victims? not a damn thing ppl need something to be mad at to feel good about themselves right now it's this joepa thing, in a couple months it'll be something else keep doing u imo
38. "Paterno's dead, his legacy is fucked, and you already hate him" In response to Reply # 34 Wed Aug-08-12 02:58 PM by southphillyman
unless you have a time machine i can borrow i don't know what more you expect to get than that which makes people on the front line of this legacy killing shit look more retarded i mean we barely know anything about the victims..... cause nobody gives a fuck about them or their stories why create an environment where these ppl can feel comfortable coming out to speak when you can pinch fork and burn at the stake being mad because i don't hate him as much as you do because you don't think he did enough to prevent someone elses crime that's your focus? k but we already knew what it was when the mob was after paterno and sandusky was sitting in his favorite diner a block away eating a fucking ham sandwich with nann camera in his face realizing i'm arguing this on a messageboard.......ppl just put the most energy into the dumbest unproductive shit
40. "Man, you're taking swings all over the place here." In response to Reply # 38
Whole bunch of stuff that doesn't have anything to do with what I posted. If you want to try and dispute the fact that Paterno condoned the presence of an alleged child rapist at his facility from at least as far back as 2001, give it a shot. That's all I posted.
>Whole bunch of stuff that doesn't have anything to do with >what I posted. If you want to try and dispute the fact that >Paterno condoned the presence of an alleged child rapist at >his facility from at least as far back as 2001, give it a >shot. That's all I posted.
56. "Its laughable because all the hurt feelings in here." In response to Reply # 54
First off I never said JoePa was a saint. All this time he was heralded as a wholesome good guy and now look at what has happened.
Even though Andy Reid has never won anything more than a trip to the Superbowl he will still have the better legacy by time all is said and done.
I don't see how anybody can disagree with that. The man doesnt even drink for cryin out loud!
After all the haterade and complaining that he doesnt run the ball... Reid is who he is. I just get the feeling that if Jim Johnson was sexually abusing little boys, Andy (despite JJ's accomplishments) would have handled that shit right then and there.
The real culprit is PSU's administration that undoubtedly could have and should have done more, but didn't.
59. "The idea of even comparing the 2 people is laughable" In response to Reply # 56
Almost every single coach in history of the world will now have a better legacy than paterno, are you simply comparing these two because funerals have bot happened related to them in the last year?
If that is the case then it is a dumb post and deserves mocked because there is nothing in common other than a funeral recently, if it is not the case why stop at Andy Reid.
It's crazy that Ray Rhodes will have a better legacy than Joe Paterno. It's crazy that Eric Mangini will have a better legacy than Joe Paterno. Should we make a post for every coach who will have a better legacy now?
Also when you say "Im not overshadowing Joe Paterno's role in the Sandusky tragedy by any means because more could have been done, but at least he reported it."
You are indeed overshadowing it because you are adding an at least which means it's not that bad. Sure Jeffery Dahlmer murdered all those people, but at least he made good use of the body parts.
Same thing as saying anything with a but. I'm sorry, but you had it coming. You can't just add things like at least or but and say you aren't trying to overshadow or downplay the bigger issue because that is exactly what you are doing.
No difference between that and saying I don't mean to be racist, but (racist statement) _____________________ <---- At least we have this
67. "I laughed, loudly at this:" In response to Reply # 59
>You are indeed overshadowing it because you are adding an at >least which means it's not that bad. Sure Jeffery Dahlmer >murdered all those people, but at least he made good use of >the body parts.
Lol, well done
_______________________________ The Alchemist - Russian Roulette Apollo Brown & O.C. - Trophies Meyhem Lauren - Respect The Fly Shit
58. "No doubt innocent ppl will suffer, but that's collateral damage" In response to Reply # 57
No different than USC getting punishments last year for shit Reggie Bush did, or Urban Meyer suffering for the sweater vest.
Way worse crime so way worse punishment, but that's just how it has always gone b/c they can't go back in time and punish the past people. _____________________ <---- At least we have this
66. "They have come out with who the coach was, who knows if true" In response to Reply # 65
It wasn't Sandusky though, that was a quick and easy assumption to make but all parties involved have said the same thing since then.
I forget who they said the players were pranking and don't feel like looking it up, I tend to believe it only because if it was that prevalent and that well known then word would have leaked out somehow even sooner. _____________________ <---- At least we have this
