------------------------- “The other dude after me didn’t help my case. It was just like…crazy nigga factory going on.” Dre makes no apologies for his own eccentricities. “I was young, and searching, trying to find myself,” he says. “Never did.”-- Andre B
Frank Longo Member since Nov 18th 2003 65863 posts
Mon Jun-25-12 01:44 PM
11. "I *really* don't see this happening." In response to Reply # 9
Maybe it depends on the size of the contract. But you want to ideally sign a guy that can hopefully develop into a max deal sort of piece with a Top 5 pick, and Harden's not that.
I'd rather have Harden than Beal or Barnes, sure, but I think the type of team desperate enough to sign Harden to a max deal isn't the same type of team to trade away their most valuable rebuild tools, their lotto picks. I just think these teams in the top ten have WAY too diverse a set of needs to be spending a long contract on a guy who just massively choked dick on the biggest stage possible at the position of greatest depth in this draft.
Then again, with some of those GMs in the top ten, maybe I'm underestimating their stupidity.
16. "you guys are underestimating the value of a young but somewhat" In response to Reply # 11
already known commodity with upside.
Those are the types of pieces that yield the most in a trade (and realistically the only reason OKC would even consider dealing him is economics but I still don't believe they will).
You could probably get away with selling him on slightly under max for flexibility but look at the 3 picks outside of him: Enes Kanter, Derrick Favors, OJ Mayo, Al Horford, Adam Morrison.
To get to anybody you'd even remotely take over Harden you'd have to get to Deron Williams & that's more off past then future.
So yes, you could likely get a Top 3 pick for James Harden, the only one you'd completely rule out is the Anthony Davis pick.
Frank Longo Member since Nov 18th 2003 65863 posts
Mon Jun-25-12 03:54 PM
20. "Don't get me wrong, I think OKC is the reason this won't happen." In response to Reply # 16
OKC is in a rare position in which they're contenders that have a bunch of youth. I don't think they're looking to deal youth away for vets, I think they're looking to stay relatively young and talented by getting not just a lotto pick, but some additional value as well, from one of these teams interested in Harden.
However, those top ten teams are all pretty much rebuild teams. I don't see a team trading a lotto pick and the necessary value needed to entice OKC to give them Harden possibly max deal in the middle of a rebuild. I just don't see it.
I agree Harden has more value straight up than pretty much all in the draft (I still think Davis, MKG, and *maybe* T-Rob have more value with their upside, personally). But straight up isn't gonna get it done on OKC's side. And you have to ask yourself, is a young team gonna give up some value and a lotto pick for a guy that just disappeared in the finals? OKC is almost certainly gonna assume they can get the house for this guy after the season he's had, and I just don't see it happening.
23. "ok good, I thought I was the only one" In response to Reply # 16
Harden is star quality
not quite franchise player, but all star caliber
you couldn't hope to draft many guards significantly better (not saying that there aren't guards better, i'm just saying you can't expect much more from a top 5 pick at guard)
Frank Longo Member since Nov 18th 2003 65863 posts
Mon Jun-25-12 04:12 PM
24. "It's not a knock against Harden, really." In response to Reply # 23
It's a knock against what OKC will want for him.
You're dealing with a kid who had an amazing season that ended in a pretty epically poor manner.
OKC's gonna want the price for the amazing season-- the highest price possible.
Teams rebuilding aren't going to want to trade lottery picks and additional value for a guy whose season ended like that.
It's really best for OKC to keep Harden, really, where he fits their dynamic well, and it's best for other teams to keep their value and lotto picks, and not force Harden into being the #1 scorer on an up-and-coming team, which I don't think is his M.O.
28. "yes, they would, that's what I'm trying to tell you" In response to Reply # 24
> >Teams rebuilding aren't going to want to trade lottery picks >and additional value for a guy whose season ended like that. > if you think that one bad series in the first Final he ever played in at 22 is going to submarine a team spending a lotto pick on him, I'm saying you're wrong.
Frank Longo Member since Nov 18th 2003 65863 posts
Mon Jun-25-12 06:40 PM
35. "I didn't realize a straight up trade was ever on the table." In response to Reply # 34 Mon Jun-25-12 06:41 PM by Frank Longo
I've been pretty out of it the last month or so, but I thought the talk was always like "#2 and Kemba for Harden" or "#whatever and whatever for Harden." If I was mistaken, my bad.
I also think Harden won't sign and trade for less than something very close to max, which is another deal I wouldn't make if I was a young team.
29. "he's closer to being a 'cornerstone' than anyone in the later point" In response to Reply # 21
of this lottery is reasonably expected to be percentage-wise.
The only player that another team wouldn't put up for him is Anthony Davis.
You don't think a team is willing to part with Michael Gilchrist or Brad Beal for a 22-year-old who got you 17/4/4 playing a Ginobli-role on a good team last year?
I mean I'm not even a big Harden fan & that sounds silly.
39. "Beal, yes. Gilchrist, no." In response to Reply # 29
so basically i completely agree with u and O as far as the main point of the thread is concerned. outside of the top 2, i wouldn't give up Harden for anyone else in this draft. most of these mugs here are talkin foolish, i guess cuz Harden had a bad finals.
right now Harden is pretty much all-star caliber with potential to be a HOFer. do people realize that this kid is 22? yall think Manu was this good at 22???
------------------------- “The other dude after me didn’t help my case. It was just like…crazy nigga factory going on.” Dre makes no apologies for his own eccentricities. “I was young, and searching, trying to find myself,” he says. “Never did.”-- Andre B
47. "HOF'er? More like FOH'er!!!" In response to Reply # 39
Cmon you guys are giving this guy some serious bobblehead. He is a B grade Paul Pierce, B+ Jerry Stackhouse. Definitely a player worth having, but if he's your best player, your team is ass ass ass ass ass ass ass ass ass NOW STOP and make that muthafuckin' beard sweat
harden would command the #2 pick and anything lower -- anything except anthony davis. rumors have the sixers trading iggy for either the #7 or #8 pick. do you really think teams wouldn't sacrifice almost anyone in a weak draft for a 22 year-old who was fourth in the entire NBA in WS/48?
19. "Not unless they can squeeze the #2 and snag Beal " In response to Reply # 0
If they could package him somehow and pull that off, it's a no brainer that saves them some money to pay Ibaka and gives them a quality shooter to replace Harden for a few years.
I mean, we're talking Bobcats here, so it's actually not as far fetched as it seems. While I don't *expect* them to do something that dumb, it really wouldn't shock me if they did.
Outside of something that, I just can't see it. He's a fan favorite and chemistry counts for a lot. Anyone wanting to dump him due to the Finals is a jackass imo.
-DJ R-Tistic- Member since Nov 06th 2008 39078 posts
Mon Jun-25-12 05:50 PM
32. "I hate the culture of "we didn't win...let's make MAJOR changes" that" In response to Reply # 0
EVERY NBA team/fan seems to be on nowadays. These mafuckas made it this far with an almost organically rooted team who's all younger than me. Like I used to punk them lil niggs at the park. No need to break them up.
40. "Nigga did u just compare Durant to Lebron" In response to Reply # 38
as if there's not a 100lb weight difference? (yes, i know this is hyperbole, but not by much.) as if Lebron is anywhere near as dangerous from outside the 3pt line?
Durant may never be strong enough to hold his ground in the post. but that's not the major problem with this team anyway.
the problem is....... well, let's just say it rhymes with WESTBROOK, his piss poor bball IQ, and the generally low bball IQ of the team as a whole.
