7 Game series, who you got? 95/96 Bulls vs 00/01 Lakers

theeraser says Lakers would win *smirk*

Gotta admit it'd be close as hell tho.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CHI/1996_games.html

-Lost 3 reg season games by 1pt (woulda been 75-7...ponder that)
-Scored 105 a game, gave up 93
-Shot 47% from the field, 40% from 3
-10 of their 15 playoff wins were by double digits (including a 38 pt win over a Shaq and Penny led Magic team)
-Only loss before finals was by 3pts in OT
-Was up 3-0 on a 64 win Sonics team in the finals before they got bored and gave 2 games away
-Road to the title: Miami (42-40), NY (47-35), Orl (60-22), Sea (64-18)
-Notable losers: Tim Hardaway, Alonzo Mourning, Pat Ewing, Charles Oakley, Anthony Mason, John Starks, Nick Anderson, Horace Grant, Shaq, Penny, Gary Payton, Shawn Kemp, Detlef Schrempf, Nate McMillan, Sam Perkins, Hersey Hawkins

Roster:
0 Randy Brown G 6-2 190 May 22, 1968 4 New Mexico State University
30 Jud Buechler F-G 6-6 220 June 19, 1968 5 University of Arizona
35 Jason Caffey F 6-8 255 June 12, 1973 R University of Alabama
53 James Edwards C-F 7-0 225 November 22, 1955 18 University of Washington
54 Jack Haley C-F 6-10 240 January 27, 1964 6 University of California, Los Angeles
9 Ron Harper G-F 6-6 185 January 20, 1964 9 Miami University
23 Michael Jordan G-F 6-6 195 February 17, 1963 10 University of North Carolina
25 Steve Kerr G 6-3 175 September 27, 1965 7 University of Arizona
7 Toni Kukoc F 6-10 192 September 18, 1968 2
13 Luc Longley C 7-2 265 January 19, 1969 4 University of New Mexico
33 Scottie Pippen F-G 6-8 210 September 25, 1965 8 University of Central Arkansas
91 Dennis Rodman F 6-7 210 May 13, 1961 9 Southeastern Oklahoma State University
22 John Salley F-C 6-11 230 May 16, 1964 9 Georgia Institute of Technology
8 Dickey Simpkins F 6-9 248 April 6, 1972 1 Providence College
34 Bill Wennington C 7-0 245 December 26, 1963 8 St. John's University

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/2001_games.html

-Tied for 2nd best rec in the league
-Scored 100.6, gave up 97
-Shot 46% fg, 34% from 3
-9 of their 15 playoff wins were by double digits (including a 39 and 29 pt wins over a Duncan led Spurs team)
-Road to the title: Portland (50-32), Sac (55-27), SA (58-24), Phi (56-26)
-Notable losers: Rasheed Wallace, Steve Smith, Damon Stoudamire, Scottie Pippen, Arvydas Sabonis, Chris Webber, Peja Stojakovic, Jason Williams, Tim Duncan, David Robinson, Sean Elliott, Allen Iverson, Dikembe Mutombo

Roster:
8 Kobe Bryant G 6-6 200 August 23, 1978 4
Derek Fisher G 6-1 200 August 9, 1974 4 University of Arkansas at Little Rock
40 Greg Foster F-C 6-11 240 October 3, 1968 10 University of Texas at El Paso
17 Rick Fox F-G 6-7 230 July 24, 1969 9 University of North Carolina
3 Devean George G-F 6-8 220 August 29, 1977 1 Augsburg College
54 Horace Grant F-C 6-10 215 July 4, 1965 13 Clemson University
4 Ron Harper G-F 6-6 185 January 20, 1964 14 Miami University
5 Robert Horry F 6-9 220 August 25, 1970 8 University of Alabama
10 Tyronn Lue G 6-0 175 May 3, 1977 2 University of Nebraska
35 Mark Madsen F 6-9 240 January 28, 1976 R Stanford University
14 Stanislav Medvedenko F 6-10 250 April 4, 1979 R
34 Shaquille O'Neal C 7-1 325 March 6, 1972 8 Louisiana State University
12 Mike Penberthy G 6-3 185 November 29, 1974 R Master's College
7 Isaiah Rider G 6-5 215 March 12, 1971 7 University of Nevada, Las Vegas
20 Brian Shaw G 6-6 190 March 22, 1966 11 University of California, Santa Barba

Playoffs:
Team FG-3pt-FT-Stl-Blk-ppg-oppg
Lakers 46.8%-38.6%-67.6%-9.8-6.1-103.4-90.6
Bulls 44.3%-30.6%-73.8%-9.5-3.9-97.4-86.8

top 8 Vs
Shaq vs Longley
Grant vs Rodman
Fox vs Pippen
Kobe vs MJ
Fisher vs Harper
Horry vs Kukoc
Shaw vs Kerr
Lue vs Wennington

Poll result (41 votes) Greatest Regular Season (Bulls) (30 votes) Vote Greatest Post Season (Lakers) (9 votes) Vote Boston Celtics (I'm White) (2 votes) Vote

COME ON!

mind
--------
matter

to say nothing of winning 16 more games to give themselves the all-time single-season record.

But the Lakers are somehow in a discussion for being equal or better because the Bulls took their foot off the gas up 3-0 in Seattle during the final?

How/why is this a question again?

That lakers playoff run was impressive. Given the level of competition and the utter dominance. They had better stats than the Bulls almost across the board for that stretch.

While I agree with you that the bulls would win in a 7 game set even if THAT lakers team showed up, I could see why someone would feel LA could take it.

I mean (Playoff numbers):
Shaq - 30pts, 15rbs, 3ast, 2.5blks, 55%FG
Kobe - 29pts, 7rbs, 6ast, 1.7stls, 47%FG
Fish - 13pts, 51% 3pt
Fox - 10/5/3.5
Grant - 6/6/1

That's tough.
MJ - 30pts, 5rbs, 4ast, 1.9stls, 46%FG, 40%3FG
Pip - 17pts, 8.5rbs, 6ast, 2.5stls, 1blk,
Kukoc - 10/4/3
Rodman - 7.5pts, 14rbs, 2ast
Harper - 8/3/2
Longley - 8/4/1

Bulls were deeper but LA's top two were formidable. Harp woulda had to cool Fish off, Rodman/Longley/Wennington woulda had to slow down Shaq some. Jordan and Pip woulda had to slow Kobe.

I think that's where the difference is, Bulls were a better defensive team.

<---Fear no man. We have enough to win.

“22/10, MVP consideration, more apg than rose & wall, Cavs won't fuck it up.
And russy = ring before rose" - Basa 2/24 on Kyrie's 2nd season

Like, their roster was constructed to neutralize him.

That's why they had so many big men and why they swept the Magic in the conference finals.

mind
--------
matter

>That lakers playoff run was impressive. Given the level of
>competition and the utter dominance. They had better stats
>than the Bulls almost across the board for that stretch.
>
>While I agree with you that the bulls would win in a 7 game
>set even if THAT lakers team showed up, I could see why
>someone would feel LA could take it.
>
>I mean (Playoff numbers):
>Shaq - 30pts, 15rbs, 3ast, 2.5blks, 55%FG
>Kobe - 29pts, 7rbs, 6ast, 1.7stls, 47%FG
>Fish - 13pts, 51% 3pt
>Fox - 10/5/3.5
>Grant - 6/6/1
>
>That's tough.
>MJ - 30pts, 5rbs, 4ast, 1.9stls, 46%FG, 40%3FG
>Pip - 17pts, 8.5rbs, 6ast, 2.5stls, 1blk,
>Kukoc - 10/4/3
>Rodman - 7.5pts, 14rbs, 2ast
>Harper - 8/3/2
>Longley - 8/4/1
>
>Bulls were deeper but LA's top two were formidable. Harp
>woulda had to cool Fish off, Rodman/Longley/Wennington woulda
>had to slow down Shaq some. Jordan and Pip woulda had to slow
>Kobe.
>
>I think that's where the difference is, Bulls were a better
>defensive team.

Kobe only played 68 games...Shaq like 73. They could won...let's say an extra 7 games.

And yes, I am being nice lol

<---Fear no man. We have enough to win.

“22/10, MVP consideration, more apg than rose & wall, Cavs won't fuck it up.
And russy = ring before rose" - Basa 2/24 on Kyrie's 2nd season

http://s3.amazonaws.com/rapgenius/1329179424_mj-laughing1.gif

lol, you can't be serious

<-textbook blocking fundamentals

alternately paint it as Shaq and Kobe carrying a bunch of bums and then as the greatest team ever. You can't have the latter without good role players, it's impossible.

_______________________

Comedy:

http://tinyurl.com/aw6jehd

Sooooo...

------------------------------
@ryanrmoran

"If anything, the Mavs' dominance this early means they'll be smoking people by mid-season." - Orbit_Established, 10/30/2012

.

http://orangekat.tripod.com/collection/visual/warmfuzzy/warm12.jpg


though to be fair, there are pictures of shaq piggybacking on hoopz.

_______________________

Comedy:

http://tinyurl.com/aw6jehd

------

Bulls are about 50/50 in games in LA

Lakers are like 1/5 for games in Chicago.

http://www.whatifsports.com/nba/default.asp

and the bulls NEVER beat that team

lol

<---Fear no man. We have enough to win.

“22/10, MVP consideration, more apg than rose & wall, Cavs won't fuck it up.
And russy = ring before rose" - Basa 2/24 on Kyrie's 2nd season

Game 1: Bulls 111 - Bobcats 68 (Highlight: MJ gets 7 steals)
Game 2: Bulls 93 - Bobcats 75 (Highlight (Dennis Rodman bullies everyone, comes down with 20 rebounds)
Game 3: Bulls 100 - Bobcats 83 (Highlight: Bismack Biyombo gets 4 blocks, unfortunately it doesn't say who he blocked)
Game 4: Bobcats 98 - Bulls 95 (Highlight: WTF???)
Game 5: Bulls 110 - Bobcats 108


Besides Game 1, not nearly the blowout it would've been in real life.

_______________________

Comedy:

http://tinyurl.com/aw6jehd

2-3-2 format, with the Bulls being the home team first, obviously.

Game 1:
Lakers 104, Bulls 99
(Kobe with 17 and 11, Shaq with 32 and 13. Jordan with 23 and 12, Rodman with 4 and 20)

Lakers lead 1-0.

Game 2:
Lakers 97, Bulls 96
(Shaq with 32 and 20, Kobe with 11, 7, and 8. Jordan with only 23 again, Rodman continues to beast on the boards with 18)

Lakers lead 2-0.

Game 3:
Lakers 109, Bulls 102
(Jordan drops 37, Rodman grabs 23 boards, Kobe drops 37 and 10, Shaq with 34 and 12)

Lakers lead 3-0.

Game 4:
Lakers 114, Bulls 101.
(Shaq with 36 and 19, Kobe with 25, 5, and 9. Jordan goes 7/22 for 19 points.)

Lakers win 4-0.

Now THAT isn't happening but it just happened for me!

------------------------------
@ryanrmoran

"If anything, the Mavs' dominance this early means they'll be smoking people by mid-season." - Orbit_Established, 10/30/2012

the year before.

---------------------
Gamertag, PSN ID, WiiU Net - LACHzilla

>the year before.

<<<<<<<TALK TO THE HAND, BITCHES!!!

.

the winner gets to keep Ron Harper I guess

<-textbook blocking fundamentals

He'll eat and man will he eat on Chicago's centers, who are legendary dogshit.

That said, chicago's shitty centers would be used against him in the 4th as they will Hack-a-Shaq away if a game is remotely close.

Kobe will be met with defensive pressure from MJ, Pippen & Rodman (sub him out if 2001 Phil hacks-a-Rodman).

Virtually the same LA squad got shitted on by Detroit, don't see how they'd be any better against THE greatest single season squad who had a defensive answer for your fav perimeter player & offensive punch to boot.

<-- I JUST ORDERED ME SUM WINGS & A SAMMACH? YEAAAA BOI!
http://i42.tinypic.com/u2268.gif B)
http://twitter.com/DaMbatolDeluxe
♪ http://www.last.fm/user/mbattol ♫ (](^_^ )[)

96 Jordan > 01 Kobe for sure. But Shaq > >>>> + >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> ANY Chicago Center

------------------------------
www.DJR-Tistic.com

New mix: Cool Grindz Vol 2: http://www.mixcrate.com/djrtistic/djrtistic-cool-grindz-vol-2-315912 - Miguel, Slum Village, DJ Quik, Jay-Z, and more

www.twitter.com/DJ_RTistic
Instagram - @DJ_RTistic

Shaq is definitely getting his 30+ & 12, but watch them bigs hack away on him. OG Phil won't give a shit about having them foul out 2-3 of his big men since he have 6 to sacrifice from Simpkins to Longley.

Otherwise, it's not so much even a matter of Jordan > Kobe, but the 3-4 guys whose D can give Kobe headaches as he tries to score including Jordan himself.

<-- I JUST ORDERED ME SUM WINGS & A SAMMACH? YEAAAA BOI!
http://i42.tinypic.com/u2268.gif B)
http://twitter.com/DaMbatolDeluxe
♪ http://www.last.fm/user/mbattol ♫ (](^_^ )[)

Even though they had solid guard play, those Lakers teams were basically built for western conference dominance, where all the bigs reigned for a minute. No coincidence that the only loss they took that year came with an all time great scoring guard. 95-96 Bulls were as efficient and smart a team as there has ever been. If THAT philly team could hang an L on the Lakers and was close in another, hard to see the Bulls team that was infinitely more talented, disciplined, not doing much better.

ROFL @ the 2008 Celtics sweeping the Bulls. ROFL. Ray would have had Mike running around those screens but who the fuck was gonna check Mike? Pip would have made Pierce work hard as fuck. And Rodman would anger the SHIT out of studio thug. The Bulls may not have had as much scoring talent in the front court, but they defended the fuck out of everyone, AND they were physical. The thing I remember most about 2008 is that Boston slapped the Lakers around like children.

Prime time Shaq would have beasted with ease and Phil in 01 would have found ways to to take Pip out.

Kobe and Jordan cancel each other out.

Shaq in 01 would eat that bulls team for breakfast with ease.

lakers bench would come up big as well.

Rick Fox is so slept on he would put that D and be the difference really.

the power forward spot though is where the bulls would be in trouble against that laker team.

while Jordan,Pip and Rodman are 3 of the Greatest ever I always found that 95-96 team overrated and no way could they beat any of the great 80's teams IMO.

mistermaxxx08

they Rule R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Bruno Mars, Stevie Wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,Lionel RIchie,Isleys and Earth,Wind and fire

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,Buffalo Bills,Michigan Woolverines football and basketball

>while Jordan,Pip and Rodman are 3 of the Greatest ever I
>always found that 95-96 team overrated and no way could they
>beat any of the great 80's teams IMO.

>Prime time Shaq would have beasted with ease and Phil in 01
>would have found ways to to take Pip out.
Pip's scoring was never his most important attribute to the team, so let me know how Pip gets taken out when only one player on the team can create his own shot and will be defended by Jordan

>Kobe and Jordan cancel each other out.
LOL NO

>Shaq in 01 would eat that bulls team for breakfast with ease.
>
>lakers bench would come up big as well.
>
>Rick Fox is so slept on he would put that D and be the
>difference really.
>
>the power forward spot though is where the bulls would be in
>trouble against that laker team.
>
>while Jordan,Pip and Rodman are 3 of the Greatest ever I
>always found that 95-96 team overrated and no way could they
>beat any of the great 80's teams IMO.
kindly tell me what the 80s teams have to do with a team in 95-96, and more importantly, a LAKER team in 2001????

your shit is all over the place

WHAT'S GOOD *****? What's REALLY good?!?!????!!! Ha HA!
http://imgflip.com/i/pgk9

>Kobe and Jordan cancel each other out.

_________________________

stay off that blow

-------------------------
“The other dude after me didn’t help my case. It was just like…crazy nigga factory going on.”
Dre makes no apologies for his own eccentricities. “I was young, and searching, trying to find myself,” he says. “Never did.”-- Andre B

but offense and offense alone they cancel one another out IMO. Kobe can score sideways 3's with his left hand and has done it, no matter where you come down on Kobe B.Bryant the cat has a reportore of shots that will give you headache and Jordan wouldn't want to deal with that all game long.

Jordan barely could keep up with Reggie miller in that last playoff run in 98 and you gonna tell me that he would be able to deal with a 2001 Kobe after having to run after Chicken George Legs Reggie Miller?

mistermaxxx08

they Rule R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Bruno Mars, Stevie Wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,Lionel RIchie,Isleys and Earth,Wind and fire

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,Buffalo Bills,Michigan Woolverines football and basketball

the veteran Bulls swept a young Shaq and Penny but it seemed like the Bulls strategy was to let those 2 get theirs and shut down everbody else.

Game 1 was a blowout, the Bulls won by 38 and out rebounded Orlando 62 to 28 led by Rodman's 21 rebounds to go with 13 points. Penny had 38pts but only 3 assists with 4 turnovers. Shaq had 27pts but only 6 rebounds with 6 assists and went 1 for 7 from the line. Orlando's other 3 starters, Nick Anderson, Dennis Scott and Horace Grant were 0 for 11 from the field. Grant was injured and missed the next 3 games. The Bulls had balanced scoring with 6 people in double figures led by MJ's 21.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/199605190CHI.html

Game 2, Bulls won a tight game by 5, MJ had 35, Scottie had the near triple-double with 17, 10 and 9, and Rodman has 15 and 12 for the Bulls. Shaq had 36 and 16, Penny had 18 with 3 assists and 3 turnovers.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/199605210CHI.html

Game 3, another Chicago blowout by 19, Scottie led the way with 27, 6 and 7, MJ had 17, Rodman had 9 and 16. For Orlando Shaq had 17 and 12 and went 1 for 9 from the line. Penny had 18 with 3 assists and 3 turnovers.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/199605250ORL.html

Game 4, Bulls win the close out game by 5, MJ throws up 45 on 16 of 23 shooting from the field, went 10 of 14 at the line, and 3 of 4 from 3-point range. Scottie chipped in 12, 5, and 8, Rodman had 9 and 14. Penny and Shaq had 28 apiece. Orlando was missing starters Horace Grant and Nick Anderson plus top reserve Brian Shaw and didn't really stand a chance.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/199605270ORL.html

Now, looking at a more mature Shaq on the 01 Lakers, he had extended his offensive game quite a bit, plus the triangle offense freed him up a bit more and made it more difficult to double and triple team him and made teams pay if they did. Penny was a great player but he was no Kobe Bryant. Plus I think the Lakers role players were a little more mature and reliable than the other guys on that Magic team.

The one part that is really hard to quantify is Phil Jackson coaching against Phil Jackson. Btw, anybody arguing against him being the GOAT is foolish.

<<<<<<<TALK TO THE HAND, BITCHES!!!

>Btw, anybody arguing against
>him being the GOAT is foolish.
>
>

not many arguments you can put up, but its not nearly as unanimous as that

__________________________________________
CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
------------------------------------
Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

>>Btw, anybody arguing against
>>him being the GOAT is foolish.
>>
>>
>
>not many arguments you can put up, but its not nearly as
>unanimous as that

I mean in addition to winning more titles than anyone else across a 20-year span, he probably coached 2 of the greatest teams in the modern era. You'd have to package Riles and Pop together to come close to Phil's resume.

<<<<<<<TALK TO THE HAND, BITCHES!!!

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CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
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Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

<<<<<<<TALK TO THE HAND, BITCHES!!!

plus if not for what he did Phil wouldn't have had all those talented niggers to play for him to even get those titles

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Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

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CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
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Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

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Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
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CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
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Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

and every team since then, if you wanna keep it 1oo

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Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

Lakers bench would be the difference.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

>Lakers bench would be the difference.

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lydbz0qlfv1qzzwx9.gif

Lakers bench would be in foul trouble about midway through the 3rd quarter

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Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

Though Bean doesn't really go full on Super Sayain 3 until 05-06 when he had a shit team, 02 was still a very prime Kobe and his hunger to take on Alice The Goon and Cheese Eyes would be amazing to watch. \

All I'll say is that Mike really didn't have a finals opponent quite like those lakers teams. I can't think of another that was so top heavy offensively with two guys as dominant as Shaq and Kobe were at the time. The Magic were neophytes all around, but ShaKobe circa 02 was seasoned, battle tested, defending repeat champs and an entirely different animal all together from anything Mike ever faced in the finals.

So that's something to consider- these Lakers were great champions in their own right. In fact, the only actual champion the Bulls faced was the aging, Kareem-less Lakers.

I mean, sure, you kinda just don't bet against Mike. Anyone thinking the three-peat Lakers would have simply been a cakewalk is delusional. IMO Shaq rag-dolls Dennis, and that's the beginning and end of anything they'd have to throw at him. Scottie and Mike go a long ass way toward negating Kobe though, even if they don't stop him.

Objectively that Bulls team was just too good. I just don't think they really had a finals opponent that was ANYTHING like the threepeat Lakers.

02 Lakers prolly don't even make the finals if someone on Sacramento could nut up besides Bibby and BJack.


>Though Bean doesn't really go full on Super Sayain 3 until
>05-06 when he had a shit team, 02 was still a very prime Kobe
>and his hunger to take on Alice The Goon and Cheese Eyes would
>be amazing to watch. \
Kobe v. MJ was always worth twice the admission price


>All I'll say is that Mike really didn't have a finals opponent
>quite like those lakers teams.
Can't the same be said for every team the Lakers faced as well? I mean since the west was big man heavy, once the Lakers made it out of the west, it was just prime Shaq against didn't really matter.

>I can't think of another that
>was so top heavy offensively with two guys as dominant as Shaq
>and Kobe were at the time. The Magic were neophytes all
>around, but ShaKobe circa 02 was seasoned, battle tested,
>defending repeat champs and an entirely different animal all
>together from anything Mike ever faced in the finals.
Yeah, but did the Lakers EVER run into some shit like that before? We know the simple answer.


>So that's something to consider- these Lakers were great
>champions in their own right. In fact, the only actual
>champion the Bulls faced was the aging, Kareem-less Lakers.
In that same token, except for the Spurs (who won their first and second championships four years apart) the Lakers didn't face any champions either.

I just don't think 02 could have done nearly as well as 01. 01 was a fucking buzzsaw.

>I mean, sure, you kinda just don't bet against Mike. Anyone
>thinking the three-peat Lakers would have simply been a
>cakewalk is delusional. IMO Shaq rag-dolls Dennis, and that's
>the beginning and end of anything they'd have to throw at him.
>Scottie and Mike go a long ass way toward negating Kobe
>though, even if they don't stop him.

The hardest thing (and most telling) about this debate is coaching. It was Phil on both of them. I think MJ could have exploited Kobe's immaturity and pulled him out of the team concept more and Rodman would have still annoyed the living shit out of Shaq. That's another reason why I think it would HAVE to be 01 Lakers, because of how much of a fight the Kings gave them in 02.

>Objectively that Bulls team was just too good. I just don't
>think they really had a finals opponent that was ANYTHING like
>the threepeat Lakers.
oh no question. Shaq and Kobe the nastiest two man punch ever.

>02 Lakers prolly don't even make the finals if someone on
>Sacramento could nut up besides Bibby and BJack.

"If" is perhaps the worst possible way to look back at things that have already happened. Hey, if Karl Malone doesn't get injured, we COULD be looking at the Lakers winning the 04 title as well. At bare minimum, that series goes down differently.

>Kobe v. MJ was always worth twice the admission price

true, but we never saw both guys at their peak going at it.

>Can't the same be said for every team the Lakers faced as
>well? I mean since the west was big man heavy, once the Lakers
>made it out of the west, it was just prime Shaq against didn't
>really matter.

Yes, the same can be said. Absolutely. Thing is, the Bulls had nothing whatsoever that could handle a guy like THAT Shaq.

>Yeah, but did the Lakers EVER run into some shit like that
>before? We know the simple answer.

Of course we know the answer, but it's true on both sides of the coin.

>I just don't think 02 could have done nearly as well as 01. 01
>was a fucking buzzsaw.

True. As a team they were better, I'm just more intrigued at a better Kobe in the mix mainly.

>The hardest thing (and most telling) about this debate is
>coaching. It was Phil on both of them. I think MJ could have
>exploited Kobe's immaturity and pulled him out of the team
>concept more and Rodman would have still annoyed the living
>shit out of Shaq. That's another reason why I think it would
>HAVE to be 01 Lakers, because of how much of a fight the Kings
>gave them in 02.

Shaq would have mowed down Rodman. I have no doubts about that personally.

>oh no question. Shaq and Kobe the nastiest two man punch
>ever.

Yeah, and that's why I think it's absurd for some people to act like this is a "no duh" type question. Smart money will always bet on Mike, but it's simply not a no brainer in this case.

>Though Bean doesn't really go full on Super Sayain 3 until
>05-06 when he had a shit team, 02 was still a very prime Kobe
>and his hunger to take on Alice The Goon and Cheese Eyes would
>be amazing to watch. \

You have to remember too, MJ was like 32 during the 72-10 season. IMO, he was on the tail end of his career. Each year of that 3peat he got progressively worse and the 72-10 season MJ <<< the last season of the first 3peat MJ. It's just that he was so far ahead of the league that it didn't matter. So slightly declining MJ vs early peak Kobe is about as even as you'd get regarding title teams.

>All I'll say is that Mike really didn't have a finals opponent
>quite like those lakers teams. I can't think of another that
>was so top heavy offensively with two guys as dominant as Shaq
>and Kobe were at the time. The Magic were neophytes all
>around, but ShaKobe circa 02 was seasoned, battle tested,
>defending repeat champs and an entirely different animal all
>together from anything Mike ever faced in the finals.

So a Finals tested Magic team with 3 time Champ Horace Grant (though he got hurt) is a neophyte? Really? They played a Blazers team that got to the Finals twice in 3 yrs (losing to the Pistons 2 season earlier and in the season they missed the finals lost a tough WCF series vs Magic's lakers). They beat Phx with Barkley/KJ and a slew of talented role players. Beat Gary Payton/SHawn Kemps sonics and then toppled Karl Malone and John Stockton TWICE.

Now, I'll say this, yeah LA was top heavy but those teams I just mentioned were MUCH deeper and had MORE overall talent. LA started a Dirt Old Horace Grant, crafty Rick Fox, really only good for timely 3's Fisher as their compliments and an only good in spots Robert Horry as their key bench guy. Being real...Shaq was gonna get his. I could see 30-34ppg, 10-13 rebs. Kobe would struggle, he'd still get 22-25 a night but he'd take 22-25 shots to get it. 30 yr old Pip (chi) vs 35 yr old pip (port) is a BIG difference defensively. And then they'd switch MJ on him from time to time so he's got two elite defenders hounding him all game. Not to mention if Kobe guards MJ, he's in foul trouble all series.

>So that's something to consider- these Lakers were great
>champions in their own right. In fact, the only actual
>champion the Bulls faced was the aging, Kareem-less Lakers.

During that LA run, they only played 1 team that had been to the Finals before. And that SA team was NOT anywhere NEAR as good as the Bull were. But the bulls did face 3 finals tested teams in their runs (Lakers, Blazers, Utah)

>I mean, sure, you kinda just don't bet against Mike. Anyone
>thinking the three-peat Lakers would have simply been a
>cakewalk is delusional. IMO Shaq rag-dolls Dennis, and that's
>the beginning and end of anything they'd have to throw at him.
>Scottie and Mike go a long ass way toward negating Kobe
>though, even if they don't stop him.

Shaq doesn't rag-doll Dennis, he'd beast but Dennis annoys shaq into early offensive fouls and sits his ass on the bench until the 2nd half for at least 2 of the 6 games it would take to beat them. Shaq would rag-doll the rest of our C lineup though but given he was such a shitty FT shooter, Wennington, Salley, Edwards, Longley, Rodman woulda had his ass at the line the entire second half. Shaq in foul trouble + living at the line = death for that team.

>Objectively that Bulls team was just too good. I just don't
>think they really had a finals opponent that was ANYTHING like
>the threepeat Lakers.

They didn't but that Lakers team just got REALLY hot at the right time. That coupled with not ever having faced a team as good defensively as that bulls team was why they kinda blazed their way through those playoffs.

<---Fear no man. We have enough to win.

“22/10, MVP consideration, more apg than rose & wall, Cavs won't fuck it up.
And russy = ring before rose" - Basa 2/24 on Kyrie's 2nd season

in that series. MJ would have him so focused on trying to keep up on that 1vs1 battle that the rest of the lakers would never get involved at all.

-----------
It's only funny till someone gets mad. Then it's hilarious.

Over 7 games? Doubtful. For a game or two yeah, and stretches here and there, but not for a whole series. And one on one, Kobe was a monster at the time. You forget how much influence Shaw and Harper had at the time. Those two were able to get in his ear a little bit- just enough, really- and I'm comfortable saying Kobe WOULDN'T go so far off the reservation in a situation like that through most of the series. He would definitely do it for a game or two though... but there's a caviat to this that you aren't really acknowledging.

Kobe gunning could just as easily result in serious damage to MJ and co. That's historically been the gift and the curse we've enjoyed and suffered through with Kobe- the fact that in any given game where he fully asserts himself, he could either decimate the opposing team or shoot the Lakers right out of the game. These days the odds favor the latter. Back then the odds favored the former. So, sure, he just might gun a game or two, but there are plenty of games where that's precisely why we won, just as it's the cause for plenty of losses.

>Over 7 games? Doubtful. For a game or two yeah, and stretches
>here and there, but not for a whole series. And one on one,

umm...that's all it would take. even if you assume the teams are even (and they aren't), one or two gunning games is all it would take.

>Kobe was a monster at the time. You forget how much influence
>Shaw and Harper had at the time.

oh please. this is ridiculous. you think shaw telling kobe to stop trying to one up his idol would really stop him? during the nba finals? GTFOH. kobe would be *gunning.* shit, he was gunning already--taking 23 shots per game that playoff run.

>definitely do it for a game or two though... but there's a
>caviat to this that you aren't really acknowledging.

this is going to get good.

>Kobe gunning could just as easily result in serious damage to
>MJ and co. That's historically been the gift and the curse
>we've enjoyed and suffered through with Kobe- the fact that in
>any given game where he fully asserts himself, he could either
>decimate the opposing team or shoot the Lakers right out of
>the game. These days the odds favor the latter. Back then the
>odds favored the former. So, sure, he just might gun a game
>or two, but there are plenty of games where that's precisely
>why we won, just as it's the cause for plenty of losses.

BWAHAHAHAHA. you just said in a game between in-his-prime MJ vs. in-his-prime Kobe, you'd be fine with Kobe trying to beat MJ mano a mano. GTFOH. this is what ab was trying to bait, somebody who would actually say "good! let kobe beat MJ one on one. he could do it!"

Fam, kobe gunned against jordan pretty much every game they played, even when jordan was 38 and on the wiz. imagine that in the NBA finals?!?! with in his prime Pippen helping guard him? lol.

-----------
It's only funny till someone gets mad. Then it's hilarious.

Pippen was usually taking all the top perimeter defensive assignments. This was around the same time Iverson was crossing him up.

<<<<<<<TALK TO THE HAND, BITCHES!!!

>Pippen was usually taking all the top perimeter defensive
>assignments. This was around the same time Iverson was
>crossing him up.
You do a disservice to AI comparing Kobe to him in terms of handles and quickness. He could have crossed over Mike prolly in 87. He was just THAT dude.

Jordan was third in the league in steals that year.

He was also much physically stronger during the second three peat, since he had spent a few years developing baseball muscles. The fadeaway was patented and would have preserved much energy for him to save for later when he needed to drive or turn it up defensively.

than Kobe. On both ends of the court. Even TODAY's Kobe who I admit is much smarter than he use to be but still does tons of dumb shit glory hunting.

A guy with as much talent if not more, who's more effecient, more experienced and just flat out smarter is gonna let Kobe out-play him?

FOH. lol

If Kobe put up 35ppg against that Bulls team, Shaq would have 27 and the lakers would lose in 5 cuz Kobe would need 32 shots to get that 35. Kobe IS not and NEVER was as efficient as MJ and a REAL defense would shut down wack ass Fisher, Fox and Grant and let those two get what they could.

Foul Shaq with the 4-5 C's we have, Pip + MJ + Trap and recover on Kobe...We've seen effective defenses on Kobe in his prime, post-championship, we've seen Shaq can't be relied on in the clutch cuz of his FT woes. What team shut down the Jordan Bulls post championships?

The defense, ability to rebound and hoops IQ woulda beat LA...not simply the roster.

<---Fear no man. We have enough to win.

“22/10, MVP consideration, more apg than rose & wall, Cavs won't fuck it up.
And russy = ring before rose" - Basa 2/24 on Kyrie's 2nd season

shit I'M a kobe fan and i CLEARLY get that shit, that's what makes him so frustrating.

>than Kobe. On both ends of the court. Even TODAY's Kobe who
>I admit is much smarter than he use to be but still does tons
>of dumb shit glory hunting.
>
>A guy with as much talent if not more, who's more effecient,
>more experienced and just flat out smarter is gonna let Kobe
>out-play him?
>
>FOH. lol
i didn't even want to GO there, nor did i need to point out that the greatest gap between Kobe and MJ takes place in the postseason.


>If Kobe put up 35ppg against that Bulls team, Shaq would have
>27 and the lakers would lose in 5 cuz Kobe would need 32 shots
>to get that 35. Kobe IS not and NEVER was as efficient as MJ
>and a REAL defense would shut down wack ass Fisher, Fox and
>Grant and let those two get what they could.
true story. i never believed kobe could get bodied the way he was against detroit and boston in the finals. Mj aint NEEEVER been handled like that by a team, his game and his smarts flat out wouldn't allow it.


>Foul Shaq with the 4-5 C's we have, Pip + MJ + Trap and
>recover on Kobe...We've seen effective defenses on Kobe in his
>prime, post-championship, we've seen Shaq can't be relied on
>in the clutch cuz of his FT woes. What team shut down the
>Jordan Bulls post championships?
lolol that's a trick question

>The defense, ability to rebound and hoops IQ woulda beat
>LA...not simply the roster.
we were better than any defense they ever dealt with and as effective as any offense they faced.

No this is not shock value.

"MY FOOD FOR THOUGHT SO HOT IT GIVE YOU DUDES ULCERS."
JAY Z

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CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
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Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this