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Subject: "Rams coming back to LA - Inglewood" Previous topic | Next topic
T Reynolds
Member since Apr 16th 2007
42818 posts
Fri Jan-31-14 12:31 PM

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"Rams coming back to LA - Inglewood"


  

          

They need a revamp, but this is great news for Angelinos.

God forbid you had to become a Charger fan, and supposedly (from a charger fan homie so it could be biased) people talking about jumping off the Raiderwagon if the Rams move back

http://touch.latimes.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-79109217/

The owner of the St. Louis Rams has bought a large piece of land in Inglewood that potentially could be used for an NFL stadium, multiple individuals with knowledge of the transaction have told The Times.

Within the last month, billionaire Stan Kroenke bought a 60-acre parking lot located between the Forum and Hollywood Park, according to individuals who spoke on condition of anonymity because they are not authorized to speak on behalf of the buyer or seller.

Wal-Mart originally owned the land but sold it after failing to get public approval for a superstore. Madison Square Garden Co., which owns the Forum, had planned to buy the lot for an estimated $90 million in order to acquire more space for parking and possibly additional development. However, MSG was informed by Wal-Mart at the end of 2013 that the land had already been sold to an unnamed party. The individuals confirmed the buyer is Kroenke, a former Wal-Mart board member and husband of Ann Walton Kroenke, daughter of Wal-Mart co-founder Bud Walton. For years, Kroenke has owned a substantial amount of land in Southern California.

The Rams neither confirmed nor denied that Kroenke had purchased the land and declined to comment on the situation.

Los Angeles has been without an NFL franchise since the Rams and Raiders left after the 1994 season. Although relocating a franchise would be fraught with challenges, and the L.A. market repeatedly has been used as leverage to get stadium deals done in other cities, this is the first time an NFL owner has bought a piece of land in the L.A. area capable of accommodating a stadium.

The Rams have been unable to work out a stadium deal in St. Louis, and, according to the terms of their lease, are able to move after the 2014 season. Last February, the Rams won an arbitration case against the St. Louis Convention and Visitors Commission concerning upgrades to the Edward Jones Dome. The commission proposed spending $124 million to bring the venue up to date, but the Rams said the necessary renovations would cost about $700 million.

Kroenke's purchase of the L.A.-area land puts additional pressure on St. Louis to come to the bargaining table or risk losing its NFL team. However, 60 acres is probably too small to fit a stadium and the required parking.

An adjacent 238-acre site is owned by Stockbridge Capital Partners, which intends to transform the recently closed Hollywood Park Racetrack into a modern residential community, Hollywood Park Tomorrow, with development beginning this spring. It is unclear whether it would be possible or financially feasible for Kroenke to purchase some portion of that land for a stadium, especially one unlikely to be publicly financed in any way.

Inglewood Mayor James T. Butts said he was aware of the land sale and that he would welcome a football stadium if the development included shops, restaurants and entertainment-related businesses that would be open year-round.

"It would not surprise me at all that there would be interest in a football stadium," Butts said. "We have been the home of sports teams before, and we have experience working with sports franchises."

Inglewood is centrally situated near multiple freeways and the Los Angeles International Airport, he said. "If there is to be interest by the NFL, we have the most desirable location."

It is risky for an NFL owner to take an obvious step toward Los Angeles for a number of reasons.

First, Kroenke could be creating a lame-duck situation for the Rams in St. Louis, potentially driving down attendance dramatically, as was the case when teams that announced they would move lingered in the Houston and Cleveland markets.

In order to move, the Rams would need more than an escape clause in their lease. They would need to satisfy the NFL's relocation guidelines, which require a good-faith negotiation with St. Louis and/or the state of Missouri on a stadium plan. Because St. Louis has already shown a willingness to spend public money on a venue — something that will not happen in the L.A. market — that would make it more difficult for the Rams to get the NFL's blessing on a move.

The NFL effectively controls the L.A. market, because the league participates heavily in the financing of new stadiums and the awarding of Super Bowls.

In the post-9/11 era, there is a potential Federal Aviation Administration issue with building a stadium at or near Hollywood Park, which sits in the flight path of Los Angeles International Airport. Al Davis, then owner of the L.A. Raiders, got a Hollywood Park proposal approved in the 1990s, but the world was a different place then.

There probably would be a slew of other environmental challenges to building a stadium there — among them traffic and parking issues — particularly next to a large Hollywood Park Tomorrow development.

Already, there are two competing NFL stadium proposals in the Los Angeles area, one next to Staples Center, and another in the City of Industry. Both almost certainly would exert as much political and public pressure as possible to derail a third option.

Finally, a relocation would require a three-quarters majority vote of the league's 32 teams. The fact that the Rams already left this market would be a strike against them. What's more, a team filling the L.A. market would be a detriment to getting stadium deals done in San Diego and Oakland because it would deprive those teams of leverage in their home cities. A coalition of at least nine NFL owners could block any such move.

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
I don't buy it.
Jan 31st 2014
1
I know it's been retread a hundred times. this time just seems more
Jan 31st 2014
2
Inglewood's a fine place for the stadium, accessible off 2 freeways,
Jan 31st 2014
14
      Plus football stadiums need a big parking lot
Jan 31st 2014
16
           yup, another very good point, that's a great tailgate spot n/m
Jan 31st 2014
22
Goddell just killed that rumour at a presser an hour ago
Jan 31st 2014
3
SORRY LOS ANGELES
Jan 31st 2014
4
I don't think LA really misses it that much
Jan 31st 2014
5
      LA is more a Laker and Dodger town
Jan 31st 2014
7
      my boy is convinced that the reason goodell is denying it now
Jan 31st 2014
8
           Pretty much all the LA teams draw well
Jan 31st 2014
15
           UCLA's been successful?
Jan 31st 2014
18
           Compared to 85% of college football? Hell yes
Jan 31st 2014
20
                yep. WLA fucking represents
Jan 31st 2014
21
                c'mon, you know I'm just taking shots
Jan 31st 2014
26
                     Lol I know, you ain't baiting me WC-style
Jan 31st 2014
27
           you can get $5 (or FREE) USC/UCLA football tix. NFL want $100
Jan 31st 2014
19
                man there's more than enough people to drop a hundo on an NFL game in LA
Jan 31st 2014
23
           no team in LA for the country's flagship sport is bizarre, however as
Jan 31st 2014
17
local heads are saying Kroenke is just trying to get leverage for a new....
Jan 31st 2014
6
that STL dome aint so bad. can't see why he wants that new-new
Jan 31st 2014
9
man, that Jones Dome is wack as fuck....
Jan 31st 2014
10
      honestly, only domes I can compare it to is Atlanta and New Orleans
Jan 31st 2014
12
      I heard Lucas Oil Stadium is nice, I was supposed to got out there...
Jan 31st 2014
13
      Lucas Oil is dope as fuck. Perfect stadium imo.
Feb 03rd 2014
45
      lol. i get this impression watching them on tv
Jan 31st 2014
32
Bernie has been saying for at least 2 years they ain't leaving
Jan 31st 2014
11
      yet Bernie can't point to any action taken by Stan that shows he's
Jan 31st 2014
34
Could still happen, but I doubt it will be anytime soon
Jan 31st 2014
28
lol...yeah..only that's not what he said at all....
Jan 31st 2014
30
The NFL doesn't want a team in LA
Jan 31st 2014
24
there's that too
Jan 31st 2014
25
http://www.fieldofschemes.com/2014/01/31/6727/real-estate-developer-buys...
Jan 31st 2014
29
Wait Inglewood's mayor is James T. Butts?
Jan 31st 2014
31
Let Warren Coolidge explain exactly what's going on here:
Jan 31st 2014
33
good work laying all that out, had some interesting details
Jan 31st 2014
36
It's just a leverage for a new stadium
Jan 31st 2014
35
I know I don't speak for all L.A. folks...but even though the Rams
Jan 31st 2014
37
Duh....Cholos solely ride for the Raiders & they are still in Cali
Jan 31st 2014
38
Fuck a "duh"....I'm just confirming this for people who aren't here
Feb 04th 2014
48
Here's the thing though.....back in 2000 up until maybe 5 years
Feb 01st 2014
39
      Interesting. I was 5th grade when they left, and I do remember people
Feb 04th 2014
49
           I agree with you dog
Feb 04th 2014
52
the coldest move the Rams could do right now...
Feb 01st 2014
40
Feb 03rd 2014
41
I'll reiterate an earlier point...
Feb 03rd 2014
42
This is key right here:
Feb 03rd 2014
43
you are correct...
Feb 03rd 2014
47
Do the people of St Louis
Feb 03rd 2014
46
Long, but makes a lot of sense
Feb 03rd 2014
44
      It does, but I tihnk the NFL does want a team there
Feb 04th 2014
50
           for the NFL there's more money in expansion than relocation
Feb 04th 2014
51
           I think LA will get a team eventually
Feb 04th 2014
53
                right, having a team in a "large market" doesn't benefit in the NFL the....
Feb 04th 2014
55
                     Yeah the NFL doesn't benefit as much from local media deals
Feb 04th 2014
56
whatever, don't care
Feb 04th 2014
54
Football follies in St. Louis (Swipe)
Feb 04th 2014
57
interesting, he has some of his facts off, one major thing about all thi...
Feb 04th 2014
58
what facts is he off on?
Feb 04th 2014
59
      a few things...
Feb 04th 2014
60
           I'd call those more opinions than facts...
Feb 04th 2014
62
                lol, the FACTS are that he could build a new stadium in St Louis...
Feb 04th 2014
63
                     I don't know that I'd go calling that a fact
Feb 04th 2014
64
RE: Football follies in St. Louis (Swipe)
Feb 04th 2014
61
Fox affiliate in St. Louis speaking on the Rams (link)
Feb 09th 2014
65

Ryan M
Member since Oct 21st 2002
43768 posts
Fri Jan-31-14 12:49 PM

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1. "I don't buy it."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I mean, we've heard this story a bunch of times now, but still, that area isn't big enough for a stadium. They'd have to buy Hollywood Park to really make it worth it. As nice as they've made the Forum, Inglewood is still not a desirable location for an NFL stadium, but it'd be better than Carson or whatever.

But still, again - until they actually break ground on a stadium, I'm not buying this story.

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

  

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T Reynolds
Member since Apr 16th 2007
42818 posts
Fri Jan-31-14 12:53 PM

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2. "I know it's been retread a hundred times. this time just seems more"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

legit

and agreed on carson or the harbor area

  

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Bombastic
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Fri Jan-31-14 01:51 PM

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14. "Inglewood's a fine place for the stadium, accessible off 2 freeways,"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

right next to LAX, as easy a trip as it gets from the South Bay or the Westside, still pretty easy from Hollywood or Downtown, doable from Long Beach, the SF Valley, Pasadena/Burbank or North OC.

Hollywood Park's track is now officially closed (pours out a little liquor, I miss that place already) and they're pretty much gonna put that whole thing up to the highest bidder which would easily be an NFL team owner over whoever that real-estate mogul is trying to put in condos and shit over there in its place.

  

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MothershipConnection
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Fri Jan-31-14 01:57 PM

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16. "Plus football stadiums need a big parking lot"
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

I'd prefer to take mass transit to basketball and baseball games (Staples is pretty much perfect in that regard), but if I'm going to a football game, I'd want to get there early for some good tailgating action. That wouldn't really happen with the other Downtown plan. And if there's anything that Hollywood Park has, it's a big fucking parking lot.

  

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Bombastic
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Fri Jan-31-14 02:24 PM

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22. "yup, another very good point, that's a great tailgate spot n/m"
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

  

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deejboram
Member since Sep 27th 2002
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Fri Jan-31-14 01:02 PM

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3. "Goddell just killed that rumour at a presser an hour ago"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Someone asked about it
He said he spoke with Kroenke and it has been confirmed he is NOT moving the rams to LA.

  

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T Reynolds
Member since Apr 16th 2007
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Fri Jan-31-14 01:12 PM

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4. "SORRY LOS ANGELES"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

no football for you

  

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MothershipConnection
Member since Nov 22nd 2003
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Fri Jan-31-14 01:23 PM

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5. "I don't think LA really misses it that much"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

Honestly I don't think I've met anyone here who's absolutely thirsty for an NFL team to be here. It's not like Seattle wanting the NBA back or anything.

It's probably better for negotiations for the NFL to have LA as vacant, anyway.

  

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deejboram
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Fri Jan-31-14 01:29 PM

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7. "LA is more a Laker and Dodger town"
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

and USC/UCLA game too
LA supports TWO baseball and TWO basketball teams just fine
nobody (set) trippin

  

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T Reynolds
Member since Apr 16th 2007
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Fri Jan-31-14 01:30 PM

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8. "my boy is convinced that the reason goodell is denying it now"
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

is because of they don't want a season of low attendance and revenue like Houston or when the Browns were about to relocate to Baltimore. he's saying they are trying to move on the low like the Colts but I don't know

I'm saying but how can high school and college football be such a big thing in LA and there be no pro team?

Kind of weird

  

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MothershipConnection
Member since Nov 22nd 2003
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Fri Jan-31-14 01:54 PM

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15. "Pretty much all the LA teams draw well"
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

I'm sure if an LA NFL team existed, they would draw pretty decently, but the NFL likes to have cities absolutely bow at the feet of the NFL and LA ain't having that. Even the Kings and Galaxy sell out pretty consistently.

High school football is sort of a different deal, So Cal produces a ton of players cause there's so many people and the weather is conducive to playing year round but most of the people who actually go to games have some ties to the school. And USC and UCLA have giant alumni bases that largely stick around So Cal. They get more casual fans who have no ties to the school cause historically both teams have been pretty successful on a high level but it ain't like these towns in Texas and the South where damn near everything stops for a high school or college game.

  

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Bombastic
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18. "UCLA's been successful?"
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

>I'm sure if an LA NFL team existed, they would draw pretty
>decently, but the NFL likes to have cities absolutely bow at
>the feet of the NFL and LA ain't having that. Even the Kings
>and Galaxy sell out pretty consistently.
>
>High school football is sort of a different deal, So Cal
>produces a ton of players cause there's so many people and the
>weather is conducive to playing year round but most of the
>people who actually go to games have some ties to the school.
>And USC and UCLA have giant alumni bases that largely stick
>around So Cal. They get more casual fans who have no ties to
>the school cause historically both teams have been pretty
>successful on a high level but it ain't like these towns in
>Texas and the South where damn near everything stops for a
>high school or college game.

  

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MothershipConnection
Member since Nov 22nd 2003
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Fri Jan-31-14 02:16 PM

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20. "Compared to 85% of college football? Hell yes"
In response to Reply # 18
Fri Jan-31-14 02:19 PM by MothershipConnection

  

          

Obviously USC has had more historical success and the early 2000s were bad for UCLA, but it's still one of the "name" schools in college football. Probably a tier below the USCs and tOSU's of the world but it's not like Cal football or Texas Tech football or something. Plus attendance for UCLA football games are still very well attended and the program is well in the black, it's not like one of those schools that are barely financially able to field a team or anything.

Put it this way: when UCLA sucks at football, lots of people ask "why the hell does UCLA suck at football?" When a Cal sucks at football, no one asks nationally why they suck.

  

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T Reynolds
Member since Apr 16th 2007
42818 posts
Fri Jan-31-14 02:18 PM

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21. "yep. WLA fucking represents"
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

WESTHOOD

  

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Bombastic
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Fri Jan-31-14 02:34 PM

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26. "c'mon, you know I'm just taking shots"
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

  

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MothershipConnection
Member since Nov 22nd 2003
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Fri Jan-31-14 02:47 PM

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27. "Lol I know, you ain't baiting me WC-style"
In response to Reply # 26


  

          

Mad respect to WC if/when he reads this.

  

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deejboram
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Fri Jan-31-14 01:59 PM

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19. "you can get $5 (or FREE) USC/UCLA football tix. NFL want $100"
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

>High school football is sort of a different deal, So Cal
>produces a ton of players cause there's so many people and the
>weather is conducive to playing year round but most of the
>people who actually go to games have some ties to the school.
>And USC and UCLA have giant alumni bases that largely stick
>around So Cal. They get more casual fans who have no ties to
>the school cause historically both teams have been pretty
>successful on a high level but it ain't like these towns in
>Texas and the South where damn near everything stops for a
>high school or college game.



it's about pricepoints
NFL be wanting to sellout stadiums every game
look 2hrs south of LA
san diego can't see out The Murph these days for the life of them

  

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Bombastic
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Fri Jan-31-14 02:26 PM

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23. "man there's more than enough people to drop a hundo on an NFL game in LA"
In response to Reply # 19


  

          

that's got absolutely nothing to do with it.

  

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Bombastic
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17. "no team in LA for the country's flagship sport is bizarre, however as"
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

I approach my ten year anniversary as a resident of this city, I can honestly say I don't care and know that most transplants feel the same way.

Born & raised folks care a little bit more but even most of them are on some 'fuck em, if they don't wanna be here we're good' prideful type of thing.

The bottom line is it will happen at some point, maybe.......like the bullet train.

All of us will continue not to care until the day it actually does.

  

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ThaTruth
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Fri Jan-31-14 01:24 PM

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6. "local heads are saying Kroenke is just trying to get leverage for a new...."
In response to Reply # 3
Fri Jan-31-14 01:25 PM by ThaTruth

          

stadium in STL...

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/football/professional/l-a-land-sale-raises-stakes-in-rams-stadium-talks/article_af7e5b59-0b30-5978-ad5d-2a7b3b0878d6.html

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

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deejboram
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Fri Jan-31-14 01:32 PM

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9. "that STL dome aint so bad. can't see why he wants that new-new"
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

the current rams dome is in a prime location downtown
lots of stuff to do before and after the game
he prolly want a super complex out in chesterfield somewhere

  

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Dstl1
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Fri Jan-31-14 01:37 PM

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10. "man, that Jones Dome is wack as fuck...."
In response to Reply # 9


          

I went to 4 games this year. Compare that to the dome in Indy, for example....it's weak. The lighting is horrendous. Feels like you watching the game in a big ass Sam's Club.

...I'm from the era when A.I. was the answer, now they think ai is the answer - Marlon Craft

  

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deejboram
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Fri Jan-31-14 01:41 PM

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12. "honestly, only domes I can compare it to is Atlanta and New Orleans"
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

so, i guess i been scrappin the bottom of the barrel

  

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ThaTruth
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Fri Jan-31-14 01:46 PM

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13. "I heard Lucas Oil Stadium is nice, I was supposed to got out there..."
In response to Reply # 10


          

this past season for the Rams game but plans feel through at the last minute

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

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Radio Rahim
Member since Jul 21st 2008
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Mon Feb-03-14 09:32 PM

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45. "Lucas Oil is dope as fuck. Perfect stadium imo. "
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

And a 5 min walk from downtown Indy.

__________________________
Duke, Knicks, Yankess, Giants, UGA, Rangers

Binlahab droppin science on the youth

"youre frustrated now? in undergrad? reading books all day?,
surrounded by more nubile unattached pussy than you will be in your life?"

  

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southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
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Fri Jan-31-14 03:19 PM

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32. "lol. i get this impression watching them on tv"
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

the upper half looks dark as hell like MSG

~~~~~~

  

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Dstl1
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11. "Bernie has been saying for at least 2 years they ain't leaving"
In response to Reply # 6


          

.

...I'm from the era when A.I. was the answer, now they think ai is the answer - Marlon Craft

  

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Warren Coolidge
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Fri Jan-31-14 03:47 PM

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34. "yet Bernie can't point to any action taken by Stan that shows he's"
In response to Reply # 11


  

          

going to stay..

none...

zero...

  

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Marauder21
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Fri Jan-31-14 02:55 PM

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28. "Could still happen, but I doubt it will be anytime soon"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
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Warren Coolidge
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30. "lol...yeah..only that's not what he said at all...."
In response to Reply # 3


  

          


here's what Goodell said:

"Stan is a very large developer on a global basis. He has land throughout the country and throughout the world.

"He has kept us informed of it, we're aware of it. There are no plans, to my knowledge, of a stadium development. Any kind of stadium development requires multiple votes of the membership."


There are no "plans" to move to Los Angeles because the Rams have 1 more year on their least. Nobody wants a lame duck season...so nobody is going to come out at explicitly say what is in the works..

  

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smutsboy
Member since Jun 29th 2002
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Fri Jan-31-14 02:29 PM

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24. "The NFL doesn't want a team in LA"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Otherwise owners couldn't use the "WE'LL MOVE TO LA" threat in order to steal hundreds of millions of dollars of public money from shitty politicians.

  

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T Reynolds
Member since Apr 16th 2007
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25. "there's that too"
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

  

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smutsboy
Member since Jun 29th 2002
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29. "http://www.fieldofschemes.com/2014/01/31/6727/real-estate-developer-buys..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://www.fieldofschemes.com/2014/01/31/6727/real-estate-developer-buys-real-estate-everybody-freaks-out-that-rams-are-moving-to-l-a/

Real estate developer buys real estate, everybody freaks out that Rams are moving to L.A.
Posted on January 31, 2014 by Neil deMause

Omigod omigod the owner of the St. Louis Rams bought a parking lot! A parking lot in Los Angeles! You know what this must mean!

Los Angeles has been without an NFL franchise since the Rams and Raiders left after the 1994 season. Although relocating a franchise would be fraught with challenges, and the L.A. market repeatedly has been used as leverage to get stadium deals done in other cities, this is the first time an NFL owner has bought a piece of land in the L.A. area capable of accommodating a stadium.

“Fraught with challenges” is a bit of an understatement. First off, getting land in L.A. isn’t a problem — at this point L.A. has more proposed stadium locations than you can shake a stick at — but rather the money to build a stadium, which has been a bit of a sticking point. Second, as the L.A. Times notes way down in its article (which is headlined, “A return of L.A. Rams? Owner is said to buy possible stadium site”), the 60-acre site that Kroenke bought “is probably too small to fit a stadium and the required parking.”

So what’s going on here? Kroenke, don’t forget, is now on a year-to-year lease in St. Louis after opting out of his old deal when it was ruled that the city wasn’t keeping the stadium state-of-the-art enough; the only reason to be on a year-to-year lease is to try to extort money for a new stadium by threatening to leave town, and buying land in another city is certainly a good way to rattle sabers. Or, it could just be that Kroenke, whose wife is a Wal-Mart heiress, saw that Wal-Mart was putting up some land for sale in an area that is hot (the L.A. Forum is on one side and wants to expand, and the old Hollywood Park racetrack site, marked for redevelopment, is on the other) and saw a chance to make a killing at an insider price. Or both. Or it could be omigod omigod the Rams are coming back to L.A., but don’t hold your breath on that one just yet.

  

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MothershipConnection
Member since Nov 22nd 2003
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Fri Jan-31-14 03:14 PM

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31. "Wait Inglewood's mayor is James T. Butts?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


>Inglewood Mayor James T. Butts said he was aware of the land
>sale and that he would welcome a football stadium if the
>development included shops, restaurants and
>entertainment-related businesses that would be open
>year-round.
>
>"It would not surprise me at all that there would be interest
>in a football stadium," Butts said. "We have been the home of
>sports teams before, and we have experience working with
>sports franchises."

Fantastic name.

  

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Warren Coolidge
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Fri Jan-31-14 03:46 PM

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33. "Let Warren Coolidge explain exactly what's going on here:"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Here's the thing...

there is ONE thing..and only ONE thing that will determine whether or not the Rams will stay in St. Louis or not..

One thing...

and that is do the people of St. Louis and the region have the "will and desire" to make a deal with Stan and the Rams that will keep them in St. Louis.

That's it....

if they do have that "will and desire"..then a deal can be made to keep them there...if they do not...The Rams are leaving.

it's that simple.

This is obviously a story I've been following pretty closely over the last few years and I'm pretty confident in a couple of things..

First...

We already know what Stan wants from St. Louis...they presented their proposal for what would be needed to fix the dome.... Based on that...we can assume what type of New stadium would be required to be built for them to stay..

we already know these things...we don't have to guess about that at all.

Now... to address the primary question.... The CVC or whatever rejected the Rams offer.... ok.....that honestly doesn't mean too much. What's really telling about all of this is that even after the Governor of Missouri stated he was going to "get involved" there have been no signs of any negotiation about a new stadium or any compromise on the dome issue. NONE. The reason why you can safely assume that these negotiations have not taken any substantial form is because if they had.....it would be made known to the public so that they could be confident the Rams are working on staying. But that is simply not happening....

So again..back to that "will and desire"...... From everything I've seen...whether it be media reports...St. Louis based message boards....and relatives I have who live in the area.... I can safely say that the people of St. Louis and the region are not willing to pony up the amount of money that will be required to build a new stadium. I see the majority of people....even die hard St. Louis Ram fans are basiclly telling Stan to kick rocks....particularly because he's making know attempt or efforts to let folks know his primary intention is to stay...

Just based on that....Right today...I am more confident than ever (and I've been pretty confident for a couple years now) that the Rams will be returning to Los Angeles after next season. I just don't see St. Louis and the state willing to do what will be required for them to stay..

a couple of other things that supports that confidence..

peep:
http://espn.go.com/nfl/attendance/_/sort/homePct

you can change the year up in the left hand corner and go back a few years.... The Rams home attendance stinks... anyone who has watched them over the last couple years...even with the team improving and having a legit coach.... You see an empty stadium with a ton of visiting fans there with tickets sold to them by "ram fans". The interest in the team just isn't there anymore ...and whether or not it's because of the fact they haven't been very good..the fact remains...the fans whose home stadiums are empty seldom get rewarded with new stadiums... It just doesn't happen...

second...

Even before Stan bought the land in Inglewood..he made a move that many ignore..but is a tell-tell sign he wanted to move to Los Angeles.. He made a very strong bid to buy the Dodgers. Had that bid been accepted he would have been forced to either sell the Rams...or move them to Los Angeles based on cross ownership rules. If he didn't want to move the Rams to Los Angeles..he would have never made a bid for the Dodgers.

Now as far as the Inglewood deal is concerned.....this has done a couple of things. First it is causing even more apathy with the St. Louis fans...furthering the chance for them to tell Stan to kick rocks after next season. Second, the land the Stan bought has been looked at as a viable option for a stadium in the past, and dealing with Inglewood on this is going to be a lot easier than dealing with Los Angeles. In Inglewood Stan would have a city that is more than eager to make a big splash...and now he would not have to partner with anyone regarding the land to build a stadium. Inglewood would cut a major deal with Stan to make this happen.

he already has a house in Malibu
http://walmart1percent.org/files/2012/02/ann_house2.jpg

another hurdle was just cleared as the Rose Bowl won in court the right to host NFL games as a temporary site.... I seriously doubt that the timing of all of this is a coincedence....

we shall see what happens..but now that their is a tangible location for a future stadium...now that the Los Angeles media is talking about the possibility...watch how the ground swell of support will start to increase in LA..there are already tons of Ram fans in Los Angeles....the Los Angeles Rams booster club meets on Sunday's for the games and has over a couple hundred people on a regular basis and have completely taken over what used to be The Hop in Lakewood CA.... and there are numerous other game day locations in Southern Cal doing the same thing..

the momentum is building and I simply do not see the people of St. Louis or the region wanting to do what it takes to keep the Rams there...

  

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Bombastic
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36. "good work laying all that out, had some interesting details"
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

although yes I think it's more than fair to say that the main reason Ram attendance stinks is because they haven't made the playoffs in over a decade.

  

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FILF
Member since Jun 01st 2007
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Fri Jan-31-14 08:31 PM

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35. "It's just a leverage for a new stadium"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

WHAT'S GOOD *****? What's REALLY good?!?!????!!! Ha HA!
http://40.media.tumblr.com/d8e2daf9f3f37244cd05436bcdf05973/tumblr_mt4qibKq4c1rgam01o1_1280.png

  

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-DJ R-Tistic-
Member since Nov 06th 2008
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37. "I know I don't speak for all L.A. folks...but even though the Rams"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

have been better than the Raiders since they both left...it's still way, way way more Raiders fans, and I don't think many of us would really care for the Rams unless they started winning right away. Even then, a lot of folks have adopted other teams.

The games would still sell out though, and that's all that matters.

------------------------------

50+ FREE Mixes on www.DJR-Tistic.com!

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FILF
Member since Jun 01st 2007
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Fri Jan-31-14 09:36 PM

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38. "Duh....Cholos solely ride for the Raiders & they are still in Cali"
In response to Reply # 37


  

          

>have been better than the Raiders since they both left...it's
>still way, way way more Raiders fans

WHAT'S GOOD *****? What's REALLY good?!?!????!!! Ha HA!
http://40.media.tumblr.com/d8e2daf9f3f37244cd05436bcdf05973/tumblr_mt4qibKq4c1rgam01o1_1280.png

  

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-DJ R-Tistic-
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48. "Fuck a "duh"....I'm just confirming this for people who aren't here"
In response to Reply # 38


  

          

Some people in the South have zero idea about the Raiders culture in L.A...especially young folks that didn't even know they played in L.A.

------------------------------

50+ FREE Mixes on www.DJR-Tistic.com!

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Warren Coolidge
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39. "Here's the thing though.....back in 2000 up until maybe 5 years"
In response to Reply # 37


  

          

ago....

particularly when the Rams were a very competitive team.... People in Los Angeles had a choice..

they had a choice of which team...the Raiders or the Rams.....they wanted to see on TV in the pre-season....and which team's games a particular radio station would broadcast in Los Angeles during the Regular season...

KTLA channel 5 in Los Angeles put it up for a vote...you want to see the Rams..or the Raiders... The fans in Los Angeles wanted to see the Rams....so for like 3 season, KTLA channel 5 was the Los Angeles channel for pre-season Rams football...

I have no doubt at all that there are more Raider fans in Los Angeles than Ram fans right today....

but let's get real...

The Rams were in Los Angeles for 48 years....they have the longest and most successful Pro Football history in the city...there is a ton of support in Los Angeles by long time die hard Rams..and young fans from the greatest show on turf era....

as of this morning....with the fans seeing that there is a chance they could return..watch how the support will start to bubble..

and watch how Inglewood is going to rise up as a community wanting to make it happen..

trust.

  

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-DJ R-Tistic-
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49. "Interesting. I was 5th grade when they left, and I do remember people"
In response to Reply # 39


  

          

being hype for Jerome Bettis (and my pops meeting him at Ladera Fatburger and getting his autograph for me) but after they left, I rarely ever, ever ever saw ANYTHING reppin Rams. Barely any jerseys or anything aside from the one year they won the SB, and even then, it was more Woodson jerseys around than Kurt Warner ones.

I do think it might build up some momentum and hype if they do come. But for some reason, I can't even feign excitement.

------------------------------

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T Reynolds
Member since Apr 16th 2007
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Tue Feb-04-14 12:28 PM

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52. "I agree with you dog"
In response to Reply # 49


  

          

> after
>they left, I rarely ever, ever ever saw ANYTHING reppin Rams.
>Barely any jerseys or anything aside from the one year they
>won the SB, and even then, it was more Woodson jerseys around
>than Kurt Warner ones.
>
>I do think it might build up some momentum and hype if they do
>come. But for some reason, I can't even feign excitement.

You'll see though.

I thought the same thing until the Nets came to brooklyn.

  

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Warren Coolidge
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Sat Feb-01-14 01:55 AM

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40. "the coldest move the Rams could do right now..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


there is something the Rams could do that would all at once improve the team for the future....and at the same time make St. Louis fans less supportive....something that would be almost impossible to do at the same time..

draft Teddy Bridgewater and trade Sam Bradford..

  

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ThaTruth
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41. ""
In response to Reply # 0


          

http://www.101sports.com/2013/07/15/rams-stadium-and-relocation-prospects-not-as-they-seem/

Rams’ Stadium and Relocation Prospects Not as They Seem
By STL Staff on July 15th, 2013 @ 2:11pm


Shane Gray provides special Rams commentaries on 101sports.com. Follow him on Twitter @ShaneGmoSTLRams.

Whether it’s because of the flimsy reporting that often occurs regarding the St. Louis Rams’ stadium situation and relocation prospects, a lack of homework by some on the aforementioned issues or a myriad of other potential factors, misunderstandings run all too rampant in regard to a plethora of items concerning the Rams’ long-term future headquarters.

Recently, both the St. Louis Convention and Visitors Commission and the Regional Convention and Sports Complex Authority officially rejected an arbitration-based dome renovation plan that would have cost the city approximately $700 million to implement while likely creating significant revenue losses during a multi-year construction process. According to Jeff Rainford, chief of staff for Mayor Francis Slay, the concurrent loss of convention business during the remaking of the Edward Jones Dome would have taken $500 million out of the local economy.

When considering a potential total cost of well over a billion dollars and the fact that the dome remodel would have only guaranteed a Rams stay through 2025, the decision to reject binding arbitration was a no-brainer. In the end, the determination was the only one that was economically feasible or otherwise made sense.

As expected, both the delusional and the doom-and-gloom crowds got worked up over the “news”; however, none of those paying attention – including the Rams – remotely expected the CVC to move forward with the proposal.

With the arbitration process having been finalized without a stadium plan in place, the Rams will become franchise free agents in 2015 unless a stadium resolution has been reached by then. If an agreement has not been secured by that time, the club may opt to utilize its current dome lease on a year-to-year basis or pursue moving the franchise to another location – a location like Los Angeles, for example.

As of today, the eventual utilization of the year-to-year option seems almost a certainly, particularly when considering that L.A. isn’t close to being ready for an NFL return and the Rams still retain one of the top two or three team-friendly leases in football.

To some, a Rams return to L.A. is all but inevitable. Those writing or believing such are apparently doing little to no homework, though. One mind-boggling group, for example, has gone so far as to say there is a 100-percent chance the Rams are moving back. However, when studying various topics related to L.A., the NFL and the Rams, the evidence strongly suggests that a move to California is excessively unlikely.

As has been the case with the NFL and L.A. for a long time, what glitters isn’t always gold.

For one, to put a theoretic potential L.A. move into better perspective, consider that Stan Kroenke could construct a top-tier venue in St. Louis – even before counting a dime of outside financial help from public and NFL sources – for approximately what it would cost in relocation fees and lost NFL G4 money alone. And that’s before turning a shovel of dirt on a new stadium there, building practice facilities or setting up shop. (Let me clarify, before being misunderstood, that I offer the preceding as a perspective-builder, not as a predictor of what might occur.)

Even if one suggests that Kroenke is anxiously anticipating the chance to sell out his home state by making more efforts to lead the Rams out than he did to bring them in when buying 30 percent of the club on the precondition that they move here after being lead investor for St. Louis’ expansion efforts in 1993, the Rams would still need relocation approval by 75 percent of league owners if successful in checking off a dozen or so league-mandated prerequisites for moving.

Speaking of the league and its ownership group collectively, we know a few things: We know they love money, we know they love using and/or allowing L.A. to serve as leverage for stadium deals and we know they realize that expansion fees (according to Mike Ozanian of Forbes and others) could be in the neighborhood of a billion dollars per team. The league, by the way, attained $700 million when the Houston Texans joined the NFL in 1999 during its most recent augmentation.

And those prospective mega-expansion fees are a big reason why the relocation of any organization is remote at best. And even if the Rams wanted to pay up, the Raiders and Chargers could jump ahead of them and move first.

Let’s be real: Anyone thinking the powers that be would bypass a huge payday by allowing a franchise to take one of two potential L.A. expansion spots off the map and the corresponding money it could later generate without maximizing a relocation fee is ridiculously out of touch.

League owners know that the collective bargaining agreement runs another eight years, and the TV deals and overall finances are set through that time. Moving a team to a city like L.A. – minus a massive relocation fee that would equate to an expansion fee – would not economically benefit the league and would take away both a lucrative future expansion spot and leverage piece, even if one believes L.A. is predestined for two teams rather than one.

Thus, common economic sense would suggest that expansion is the league’s long-term objective, as NFL commissioner Roger Goodell spoke of in detail with Bob Costas before later withdrawing those comments – likely under pressure to do so after nearly killing the golden goose better known as L.A. leverage.

The L.A. market could eventually bring a windfall in expansion fees with the addition of two teams there. Simply put, if a current owner wants to take one of those paper-printing expansion fee lottery-like jackpots away, they will be paying top dollar to do so, as you can be sure the NFL and its owners will get theirs. Believing otherwise is naďve and unrealistic. At minimum, one should expect a $500 million fee and the price could certainly push closer to a billion.

After all, why would a league that has never been more lucrative than it is now not prefer to retain its current bountiful revenues in every existing market and also add to those dollars via expansion monies and larger future TV deals? It would seem obvious that the NFL would prefer to increase the money pie rather than simply moving it around and making a mess by alienating one or more regions of the country through any unnecessary franchise moves.

Quite simply, why move an existing team that is generating profits when they can keep those profits intact and add to those through expansion? More specific to home, why leave St. Louis unnecessarily – which would then become the nation’s second largest market without a team – when you could add L.A. through expansion and still reap revenues from here?

In addition to a punitive relocation fee, a moving team would bypass the opportunity to receive up to $200 million in funding from the NFL’s G4 program as any stadium “…project must not involve any relocation of or change in an affected club’s home territory,” according to NFL policy guidelines. By the way, while the G4 program is known technically as a loan, fieldofschemes.com and others argue that it effectively operates more as a grant due to the fact that repayments come via monies that clubs would not normally retain anyhow.

Circling back to an earlier point on costs to re-emphasize it, Kroenke could choose to pay a relocation fee of $500 million or more and bypass $200 million in G4 money, or could use that money to build a Lucas Oil Field in St. Louis – at a cost of $768 million in 2013 dollars – before even counting a dime of public funding contributions and investments towards that effort. Lucas Oil, by the way, is a stadium Rams officials have often talked highly of after touring the facility.

It is also important to consider that Kroenke and/or his franchises own the venues of all of his other major franchises: the NBA’s Denver Nuggets, the Premiere League’s Arsenal, MLS’s Colorado Rapids and the NHL’s Colorado Avalanche. With that pattern understood, it would seem likely that Kroenke would also prefer to own and operate his NFL stadium. If so, that’s part of why a resolution was never going to come via the just-finished arbitration process. Those suggesting Kroenke would never contribute to paying for a venue once again need to do some homework on his other clubs before making such assertions.

As for L.A. sites for Kroenke to build upon, one location that has been discussed since the late 1990s is on the Dodger Stadium grounds. However, recent reports show that former Dodgers owner Frank McCourt can re-enter the picture, which makes the spot a virtual no-go because the NFL has no interest in dealing with him, according to Sam Farmer of the Los Angeles Times.

In the City of Industry, Ed Roski’s site has been shovel-ready for five years, but would require an organization to sell a significant minority interest to Roski before being allowed to build its own venue there. It’s little surprise, then, that nobody has yet bit at the chance to build there.

The much-overhyped Farmer’s Field proposal would cram a stadium with direct costs potentially exceeding $1.8 billion into a small downtown area. The proposed project has a plethora of problems surrounding it, including the fact that Tim Lieweke – the project’s long-time point man and spearhead – is no longer involved after moving to Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment of Toronto. In addition, AEG has been in a state of flux after being up for sale earlier this year. Most of all, according to a recent report from Jason Cole of Yahoo! Sports, the project is “essentially dead” to the NFL in its current state because “the numbers just don’t work.” Anyone studying the details of that prospective deal found the report to be of no surprise.

With Farmer’s Field – like the aforementioned Industry project – an owner would be required to sell a significant minority interest in the franchise, potentially at a discounted rate to boot. Kroenke, however, has never sold any portion of a franchise, so these alternatives would seem like non-starters from the jump. Furthermore, the Farmer’s Field deal would not only keep Kroenke from owning the venue, but would see him receiving just a set fee on returns. That setup, of course, is something that would certainly seem unattractive to any owner, let alone one who likes to own his venues and develop properties.

If it’s not the relocation costs discussed above or the dismal current stadium potential in L.A. just touched on, another topic that people seem misinformed about or confused on is market size.

People are often either oblivious to the fact that market size isn’t a major factor in the NFL or seem bamboozled and shocked when they discover that it has so little to do with an individual NFL team’s bottom line. Many don’t realize that market size is far less a factor in football than it is in other leagues like Major League Baseball, where teams can secure their own individual big-money TV deals.

In the NFL’s egalitarian model, an organization’s stadium situation and lease are far more important than market size. In the NFL, the vast majority of revenues are shared, so keeping costs low while having a friendly lease and a good stadium situation are much more vital than market size – as L.A.’s nearly 20-year absence from possession of a league team strongly supports and validates.

As Arash Markazi of ESPN Los Angeles has pointed out, a move to L.A. by a team from a smaller market would never make financial sense if a franchise could obtain some public support and a friendly lease in its current city, because that type of deal is unlikely to ever occur in L.A.

As a first side note to the market-size discussion, TV ratings in the nation’s second-largest city are thought to be better without a team, as networks can put the most in-demand games on each and every week. That’s vitally important when TV contract talks come up.

As a second market size-related point, many do not realize that the higher gross revenues that sometimes occur in larger markets do not necessarily equate to a higher net profit. Upped revenues don’t mean much if corresponding costs rise concurrently, after all.

People often point to the Forbes franchise valuation reports as they certainly are helpful in getting an idea about NFL teams and their individual financial statuses. Unfortunately, however, the reports don’t tell the whole story because organizations do not have to fully divulge their books. For instance, last year’s edition of the aforementioned report showed that the Pittsburgh Steelers lost money in 2011. Does anyone actually believe that?

As a report from Amy Shipley of the Washington Post points out, we don’t know what an individual team is paying and/or charging to the team. We don’t know if teams are paying aunts, uncles or children millions of dollars, for example.

In St. Louis, the Rams were typically among the more profitable teams before encountering the NFL’s worst-ever five-year performance. And that was while routinely spending to or near the salary cap when other teams (the Cincinnati Bengals, Buffalo Bills and Kansas City Chiefs, for example) would sometimes spend $20 or $30 million less towards player salaries. Obviously, a team that is spending tens of millions less on personnel is going to see a difference on its bottom-line financial numbers.

As for L.A. in the view of others, the aforementioned Farmer of the L.A. Times recently wrote that the city is as far away from the NFL as it has ever been since the Rams and Raiders departed almost 20 years ago. ESPN’s Mike Sando called L.A. an “overrated suitor” in his July 10 NFC West blog. And AEG’s former point man, Lieweke, admitted last year that there is no groundswell of support in L.A. for a return of the NFL.

If L.A. were such a sure goldmine, why have the Chargers – a team that could have been in L.A. a decade ago and continue operating on a year-to-year lease in a more outdated stadium than St. Louis’ – not made the move? Why did the Vikings – who began stadium discussions in 1998 and were to the point of operating with no lease at all – pass it up? Well, when looking at all of the above, it’s no surprise that they and several other franchises have routinely bypassed the market over the last 18 years.

As for the Rams, will they be the exception to the rule and make a move to L.A.?

Even if one believes the 66-year-old Kroenke wouldn’t mind alienating his friends and family in his birth state and the state that is still his official residence, or living out his days as a villain here, or tossing away his Missouri Sports Hall of Fame legacy, or doing damage to his work with the University of Missouri or blighting many other things he has accomplished in the Show-Me State, it would still be hard to imagine that business issues and interests – i.e. money – wouldn’t cause him hesitation in considering running out on Missouri.

If Kroenke cancelled the Rams’ run in St. Louis, it would do immense damage to his day job, realty development. His home bases are still in St. Louis (THF Realty) and Columbia (The Kroenke Group), and Kroenke has long benefitted from some favorable tax deals and other economic helps from the city and state. The chance of maintaining as positive a standing with city leaders or state politicians as he has now would be remote at best if removing the NFL, particularly after all they did to help secure its return.

Some have questioned “Silent” Stan’s quietness on the Rams’ future of late, and while it would be nice to hear him say “we are staying no matter what,” it isn’t going to happen – at least not for now. Anyone not understanding why a businessman wouldn’t flat-out proclaim that I’m keeping my business here irrespective of what the future holds probably won’t understand the explanation, either. Sure, Kroenke could say, “Hey, we are staying in St. Louis, period.” If a businessman wanted to play the fool, that would be the route to travel. If Kroenke wanted to ensure that he would receive as little city and state help as possible, well, that would prove the wisest way to go. Otherwise, it would be an incredibly illogical thing to express.

In 2010, Kroenke addressed his long-term intentions in St. Louis.

“There’s a track record,” Kroenke said. “I’ve always stepped up for pro football in St. Louis. And I’m stepping up one more time. I’m born and raised in Missouri. I’ve been a Missourian for 60 years. People in our state know me. People know I can be trusted. People know I am an honorable guy.”

Besides that, Rams chief operating officer Kevin Demoff is and has been the de-facto voice of the franchise. He has continually made it clear that the Rams plan to remain somewhere under the distinct shadow of the Gateway Arch.

Chip Rosenbloom, son of former Rams majority owner Georgia Frontiere of St. Louis, has stated his beliefs that Kroenke will honor his late mother’s wishes and keep the team here.

NFL Hall of Famer Dan Dierdorf, a former CVC chairman and long-time St. Louisan, has told Bernie Miklasz of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch that he believes Kroenke’s No. 1 objective is to possess a long-term future here.

“I guarantee you at the top of his list (Kroenke) is a new stadium in the St. Louis area,” Dierdorf said. “That’s priority No. 1 for the Rams.”

Twenty years ago, at the same time Kroenke became lead investor for expansion efforts here, another relatively unknown man by the name of Roger Goodell was working closely with city leaders before ultimately recommending St. Louis as an expansion city.

According to Miklasz, Goodell is still just as bullish on St. Louis and has clearly confirmed his desire that the Rams remain in place during private conversations. By all accounts, Goodell and the league want the team to stay put.

And why in the world would they not, when considering the above on expansion fees and the fact that the league can retain revenues in all current markets while create a bigger overall pie by adding new teams? That’s a win-win if there ever was one.

As for the Rams, their own actions seem to be making their long-term intentions rather clear.

The Rams have continually expanded their community efforts and outreach since Kroenke took over in 2010. As led by Demoff, the organization became the first team in the city’s history to win its Philanthropic of the Year award. The Rams’ community initiatives are some of the league’s most extensive. They have been done in part to grow the “next-generation fan,” according to Brian Killingsworth of the club’s front office. It would seem odd to constantly increase efforts in this community if it were planning to uproot from it.

And the Rams are not just ever-expanding their St. Louis community work and marketing, but are now also beginning to reach out more to markets like Springfield, a city that houses the Double-A Cardinals and is a huge St. Louis Cardinals town and the centerpiece of a sports-crazed region. (By the way, the coming work in Springfield is something brand-new and has just begun to be worked on since the close of arbitration, something that also would seem particularly odd if a move was in the works.)

In addition to all the community initiatives, the Rams recently installed the league’s largest preseason network, one that reaches into nine states and is geographically as widespread as the league allows with affiliates in every market within 250 miles of home base. The team’s preseason network – just like its community work – escalated after Kroenke took over ownership.

I have to ask, why in the world would you implement this network if not expecting to be here for the long haul? A three- or four-year preseason network, after all, isn’t going to add many, if any, deep-rooted fans who would be sticking with a team on the West Coast or purchasing tickets there. The preseason network expansion, put bluntly, was and is nearly useless if not designed and used as a long-term tool for growing this region’s fan base.

As a side note, a weekly show called “Rams Nation” was shown directly via affiliates for the first time last year ago in markets outside St. Louis, yet another indicator of commitment to enlarging the base in the surrounding regions.

As yet another indicator, the Rams went to great lengths in recent seasons to ensure home broadcasts with Kroenke at the helm while fans in places like Tampa Bay, San Diego, Oakland, Buffalo, Detroit and Cincinnati have endured multiple blackouts.

In looking deeper at Kroenke, he is a guy who is thought by many to be a few steps ahead of the game. He likely has had a good idea of what he wants to do (and by that, I mean in St. Louis) for quite some time. For now, it’s a matter of going through the process and securing the desired location and the best deal possible before then, almost certainly, owning and developing surrounding properties therein.

Kroenke is known to model Bob Kraft of the New England Patriots. One can look at and study Gillette Place online and see who paid for most of that venue and what ownership did on the land around it. Indeed, it is impressive. Kroenke knows how to get things done more so in Missouri than anywhere else. St. Louis is the safest play and the best bet.

As for getting things done here, that starts with Gov. Jay Nixon. It is highly encouraging that he was not only willing to take the lead on future negotiations, but that he requested the opportunity to do so. Nixon will be a great asset going forward, and was key in hiring Goldman-Sachs – a company that has often advised various parties on stadium-related matters and is already working on finding the optimal stadium solution here.

Nixon and Kroenke have known each other since their mutual Mizzou days. Nixon is known as a proponent of St. Louis sports and will help find a workable solution for the both St. Louis and the Rams.

Having the process streamlined to primarily just involve Nixon and Kroenke at this point is highly advantageous. In general, the fewer people in the room at this stage, the better.

Late last week, a portion of a statement from Nixon’s office said he appreciates “the value of having two solid NFL franchises in the state of Missouri, with stable ownership in both St. Louis and Kansas City” and that he will “never forget the way both franchises stepped up to help the people of Joplin after the 2011 tornado, including building several new homes as part of the Governor’s Joplin Habitat Challenge.”

Earlier this year, Nixon said, “The state has a long-term interest in the future of the Dome and in ensuring Missouri continues to be home to this proud NFL franchise.”

People often speak of public votes, but Minneapolis was technically required to utilize a public vote for its coming stadium and got around it, something St. Louis and Missouri has done in regard to many things in the past.

A new report came out via Fox 2 on July 11 that suggests a vote might be able to be averted if bonds are used again. For over two years, I have shared skepticism that a public vote – or at least one that would be critical in making or breaking a deal – would ultimately come.

Beyond a public vote, the city and/or state could use tax-exempt bond financing, MODOT services, TIF, tax abasement, blighted land grants, property donations and more to bring indirect dollar support toward a new venue. There are creative solutions to be utilized.

And it won’t take a fully publicly financed stadium to get a deal done. Those days are gone.

Atlanta is on its way to a new venue, but the Falcons will cover roughly 80 percent of the stadium’s funding. In Minneapolis, their recent agreement called for what amounts to nearly a 50/50 public/private split of costs. In Santa Clara, the 49ers took out a $200 million loan from the NFL and are on the hook for an annual rent of approximately $30 million dollars.

In Massachusetts, the Patriots paid for their entire venue. In New York, the new Jets/Giants home was primarily privately funded. In Texas, Cowboys owner Jerry Jones paid for the majority of his palace.

In St. Louis, we can expect a new stadium that comes by way of a private, NFL and public split.

Whether a breathtaking new venue ultimately goes up in the downtown area or in a suburban locale is yet to be determined. However, don’t expect city leaders to stand too strongly in the way of something getting down outside the city limits if that ends up being the chosen destination. As David Hunn of the Post-Dispatch reported in January, Rainford has said a metro solution is a good second option if an agreeable city plan cannot be created.

Wherever the location, expect a deal to get done that will see an elite stadium come to pass in the St. Louis region that not only houses the former Super Bowl-winning Rams, but one that – in my estimation – will bring an MLS team to soccer-loving St. Louis. A new venue – dare I say a Wal-Mart Field or Sam’s Club stadium – will beautifully showcase the region on a worldwide scale, serve the region exceptionally well, free up the dome to book events year-round and generate significant new revenues annually. If done properly, this could be a win for all parties.

In St. Louis, contrary to some misguided reports, the region’s corporate base is healthy. In 2012, the city of St. Louis came in fifth in the U.S. in regard to most Fortune 500 corporations, more than that of L.A. The city also boasts 21 Fortune 1000 companies. The corporate base is strong, and that bodes well for the Rams.

When looking over what has been touched on here, it seems clear that the Rams are very likely to remain in St. Louis for the long run unless there is no cooperation whatsoever from the city and state, which seems highly unlikely.

In upcoming decades, expect the Rams to be winning more Super Bowls in St. Louis and building an NFL legacy that football fans and non-football fans alike in St. Louis and the state can be proud of. In my opinion, that is something that Kroenke has had in mind all along.

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

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Warren Coolidge
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42. "I'll reiterate an earlier point..."
In response to Reply # 41


  

          

only 1 thing will determine whether or not the Rams stay in St. Louis or leave...

and that is whether or not the people in St. Louis or in the region have the "will and determination" to keep the Rams. If they do..and are willing to make a deal that will keep them there..the Rams will stay... If they don't...then the Rams are leaving..

it's that simple...

This article mentions how Stan could easily build his own stadium in St. Louis with less expenses to do so than moving to LA..

and that is correct.....it's absolutely 100% true...

Stan could do that..

but he hasn't done it..

He hadn't made in moves to do it..

in fact a recent report came out that Stan Kroenke isn't even returning phone calls from State representatives trying to initiate negotiations for a stadium in St. Louis..

No negotiations have started regarding a st. Louis stadium...no effort is being made by the rams side to start those negotiations...no comments or statements have come from the Rams side regarding even a desire to start negotiations...

nothing...

compare that to what Stan HAS done.... he HAS bought land in Los Angeles that has for years been looked at as a possible stadium site...and he HAS made a bid to buy the Dodgers which would have forced him to either sell the Rams or move them to Los Angeles...

  

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ThaTruth
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43. "This is key right here:"
In response to Reply # 42


          

"For one, to put a theoretic potential L.A. move into better perspective, consider that Stan Kroenke could construct a top-tier venue in St. Louis – even before counting a dime of outside financial help from public and NFL sources – for approximately what it would cost in relocation fees and lost NFL G4 money alone. And that’s before turning a shovel of dirt on a new stadium there, building practice facilities or setting up shop."

He could build a new stadium in STL with just his own money for basically the same cost of just the opportunity to move to LA, before anything is built out there.

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

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Warren Coolidge
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47. "you are correct..."
In response to Reply # 43


  

          

>"For one, to put a theoretic potential L.A. move into better
>perspective, consider that Stan Kroenke could construct a
>top-tier venue in St. Louis – even before counting a dime of
>outside financial help from public and NFL sources – for
>approximately what it would cost in relocation fees and lost
>NFL G4 money alone. And that’s before turning a shovel of dirt
>on a new stadium there, building practice facilities or
>setting up shop."
>
>He could build a new stadium in STL with just his own money
>for basically the same cost of just the opportunity to move to
>LA, before anything is built out there.

he could build a stadium in ST. Louis with his own money...

but he has not even began talking to St. Louis about that..

and until he does....doing things like making bids to buy the Dodgers and buying land in Inglewood are making people think he's at a minimum open to moving..

  

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smutsboy
Member since Jun 29th 2002
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Mon Feb-03-14 11:40 PM

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46. "Do the people of St Louis"
In response to Reply # 42


  

          

want to give away 100's of millions of dollars in tax breaks and other freebees to a man with a net worth of $4,000,000,000.

(It's unclear if that number includes his wife's wealth as a member of the Walmart family.)

I think that's what you meant to write.

>"will and determination"

  

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Tek4mula
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44. "Long, but makes a lot of sense"
In response to Reply # 41


  

          

It always seemed crazy to me that LA could go this long without an NFL team but when you think about it there aren't a lot of reasons for an existing owner to move a team there.

  

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Marauder21
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50. "It does, but I tihnk the NFL does want a team there"
In response to Reply # 44


  

          

And they're not going to expand to a 34 team league.

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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ThaTruth
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51. "for the NFL there's more money in expansion than relocation"
In response to Reply # 50


          

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

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Tek4mula
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53. "I think LA will get a team eventually"
In response to Reply # 50


  

          

But it's going to take someone ponying up a ton of blood money to the NFL. They've basically shown that they can get pretty much whatever they want from the Networks without having a team in the LA area. The biggest benefit the other owners would get from having a team in LA is the pay-out they would get from either a relocation fee or expansion fee. It's starting to get pretty obvious that the owners like the idea that everytime they go to the voters with their hands out they can threaten to move to LA.

Expanding to 34 is pretty awkward but I think the NFL and the owners have shown that they are open to anything that will make them more money. Adding 2 new teams, either both in LA or one in LA one somewhere else, would generate a significant amount of money.

WC keeps talking about the "will and desire" needed by St. Louis folks to keep the Rams but I'm starting to feel like it's the other way around. I've always assumed that if a group from LA could ever get there act together and create a viable stadium plan the NFL would be ecstatic to get back into that market. Now I think it's going to take a group that can not only get a stadium built, but one that is going to invest a huge amount of cash to get a team to come.

For any current owner it would be an awfully big investment to get a stadium built in LA and to pay off the NFL and for what? You get to be in one of the largest media markets but you can't sell your TV rights. I guess you might get a more lucrative deal for radio rights. I'm not sure how NFL handles the pay-outs for merchandise sales but I guess you could get a bit more there being in LA. I can see why teams would rather use LA to try and get a few hundred million in taxpayer money to stay put rather than actually move to LA.

  

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ThaTruth
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55. "right, having a team in a "large market" doesn't benefit in the NFL the...."
In response to Reply # 53


          

same way that it does in other sports

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

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MothershipConnection
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56. "Yeah the NFL doesn't benefit as much from local media deals"
In response to Reply # 55


  

          

The Lakers and Dodgers are the two marquee brands in LA sports and they both benefit greatly from the giant TV deals they signed with Time Warner. Ignoring the fact that the Lakers are terrible this year, that gives him a giant windfall that they can budget against for the next decade. Even accounting for revenue sharing in those sports, it's still a giant leg up on other teams. The NFL has a strict hard cap and all games are broadcast nationally so it's not like a potential LA NFL owner is going to profit extra from that.

LA and CA don't have a ton of tax money to pony up for a stadium (getting better budgetwise but still not great) and Garcetti doesn't seem particularly pressed to get an NFL team here either... it seems Villagrosa was more pressed in that regard and Garcetti would rather spend the money improving public transport and fixing up pensions (a good move IMO, and to be fair Villagrosa was also big on public transport). So it would take a ton of private money most likely and why move to LA when you could most likely make just as much money in Jacksonville or St Louis or San Diego with less headache?

  

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Kungset
Member since Mar 29th 2004
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54. "whatever, don't care"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

unless it gets built in carson, then i'll be mad knowing that shuckster jim dear getting paid off that.

  

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Warren Coolidge
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57. "Football follies in St. Louis (Swipe)"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/columns/bill-mcclellan/mcclellan-it-s-a-new-season-for-football-follies-in/article_2ed94bab-78fc-5eb6-9735-bca67b70a962.html

February 02, 2014 12:45 am • By Bill McClellan bmcclellan@post-dispatch.com 314-340-8143

McClellan: It's a new season for Football Follies in St. Louis

The Football Follies are back. That’s great news. The Follies have always been more fun than the games.
The games have had their moments. The Cardiac Cards and the Greatest Show on Turf were each fun for a couple of years, but for the most part, football in St. Louis has been ho-hum. But the Follies have been a regular laugh riot.

Bill Bidwill threatening to leave town. Don’t let the door hit you on the way out! Vince Schoemehl going to Boston and coming back with notes jotted down on a napkin. He claimed those jottings represented an option to buy an option to buy the New England Patriots. Ten bucks.

Flimflam man Fran Murray promised that if we’d built a stadium we’d get an expansion team. The uneasy partnership of flamboyant New Money (Jerry Clinton) with staid Old Money (James Orthwein) coming to its inevitable disintegration, and the frenzied search for a new Daddy Warbucks. That search led to the news conference at which we met Stan Kroenke.

“I’m a very private person,” he said.

“Hey, Stan! How much you worth?” shouted a television reporter.

The failure to get an expansion team. The Chuck Knight explosion at the airport. Tom Eagleton leading the effort to lure the Rams out of Los Angeles. The triumphant return of hometowner Georgia Frontiere, lounge singer turned serial wife. Georgia mistaking Mayor Freeman Bosley Jr. for a waiter at her welcome home party.

The evolution of Kroenke from Awkward Stan minority owner to Silent Stan, intergalactic sports mogul.

Such memories.

Now, with the lease on the Dome set to expire — while our payments on the place still have years to run — Silent Stan has bought land in Los Angeles. It is a chunk of land that could be used for a stadium. Could this be an effort to prompt St. Louis to begin serious negotiations about a new stadium? Are we now engaged in a high-stakes poker game?

I doubt it. I suspect that if Kroenke is playing cards, it’s solitaire.

He’s a businessman. He is all about the money. A football team in Los Angeles is worth more than one in St. Louis. Can he move the team? Maybe. If he can, he will. That’s been my guess for a long time.

Not just mine, of course. I followed the lead of Ray Hartmann, owner of St. Louis magazine, fellow panelist on Channel 9’s “Donnybrook” and the original Chicken Little. The Rams are leaving! The Rams are leaving!

The league wants a presence in Los Angeles. An expansion team would mean splitting the television money one more way. If an existing team were to ask to move to Los Angeles, no team can make a better case than the former Los Angeles Rams. They are in a division with San Francisco, Seattle and Phoenix. They don’t sell out their stadium in St. Louis. With the lease in St. Louis about to expire, they will be legally free to move.

Nothing will happen immediately. Except speculation, some informed, some otherwise. St. Louisans will try to peer into Silent Stan’s head. Does he love us? Does he like us even a little bit?

Certainly not, and probably not, I’d say, but those are guesses.

That’s the beauty of Silent Stan. Your guess is as good as mine. He ain’t saying.

Hey, here’s some speculation. The land deal in Los Angeles went down on Jan. 13. The buyer was a holding company in care of a lawyer from a firm that advised Silent Stan when he bought an English soccer team. Nobody in the press made the connection. This newspaper and the Los Angeles Times both published stories Thursday night. In other words, the story was 17 days old and the two papers broke the story within 10 minutes of each other.

Were they tipped off by the same sources? Did somebody want this to come out? If Silent Stan wanted it to come out, why use a holding company?

Until the stadium situation in St. Louis is resolved, this potential move to the West Coast will cast a large shadow over the team. And guess what? The stadium situation is unlikely to be resolved. We don’t have any more money to throw at Silent Stan. And why should we? He’s worth something like $5.3 billion and his wife is worth something like $4.7 billion.

Maybe if the Rams leave, we can steal the Jacksonville Jaguars. A team in Jacksonville is worth even less than a team here. Jacksonville owner Shahid Kahn tried to buy the Rams. The president of the Jaguars is St. Louisan Mark Lamping. On the other hand, the Jaguars’ lease runs until 2030. Could we buy them out of it?

We should feel fortunate on this Super Bowl Sunday. For fans in Seattle and Denver, the season ends this evening. Our Follies have a long way to go. We are blessed.

  

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ThaTruth
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58. "interesting, he has some of his facts off, one major thing about all thi..."
In response to Reply # 57
Tue Feb-04-14 03:23 PM by ThaTruth

          

is all this talk about this "land" that Stan bought in LA, I've heard than in reality that its not an ideal location for a new NFL stadium and Stan will probably use that land for something else.

Its interesting that they speak on Jacksonville coming here because before with got the Rams a lot of people in St. Louis thought we would get the expansion team that went to Jacksonville since Florida already had 2 football teams.

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

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Warren Coolidge
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59. "what facts is he off on?"
In response to Reply # 58
Tue Feb-04-14 03:54 PM by Warren Coolidge

  

          

I'm curious because I'm trying to decipher all of the facts from fiction and it gets tough when reading St. Louis columnists because they usually ignore a lot of the stuff that's happening that hints towards a move. This guy seems to be trying to be brutally honest, so I'm curious where he's missing the boat in your opinion.

as far as the land goes.....both Lucas Oil stadium and the new Vikings stadium sit on less acres than the amount Kroenke just bought, and the parking situation would be worked out by using the Forum across the street.... overall it would actually work out better than Farmers field as far as traffic is concerned with a few minor upgrades to Manchester blvd.

that area..the Hollywood park area has been looked at as viable for a stadium for a couple of decades though.

oh..and I've been saying this for years...at the end of the day...St. Louis will get the Jags....and LA will get the Rams,

  

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ThaTruth
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60. "a few things..."
In response to Reply # 59


          

1. "A football team in Los Angeles is worth more than one in St. Louis"

That's not necessarily true and its already been discussed in this post why. For one, he could build a brand new stadium in St Louis for basically the same amount it would cost just to move to LA and he would then probably have to spend double that to get a stadium built in LA. Also like it was said above, NFL teams don't get to negotiate their own TV contracts so having a team in a larger market is not necessarily more lucrative in pro football as it is other sports.

2. "The league wants a presence in Los Angeles."

Does it really? I think if the league was really that concerned about a team in LA it would be there. They are more interesting in putting a team in London than they are LA. The other owners like having the "move to LA" threat as a bargaining chip in stadium negotiations that they wouldn't have if there was an actual team team there.

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

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Warren Coolidge
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62. "I'd call those more opinions than facts..."
In response to Reply # 60


  

          

opinions of course that anyone is welcome to disagree with or provide an alternative point of view...but the 2 statements that you are questioning have some data and facts that support what the author is saying...


>1. "A football team in Los Angeles is worth more than one in
>St. Louis"
>
>That's not necessarily true and its already been discussed in
>this post why. For one, he could build a brand new stadium in
>St Louis for basically the same amount it would cost just to
>move to LA and he would then probably have to spend double
>that to get a stadium built in LA. Also like it was said
>above, NFL teams don't get to negotiate their own TV contracts
>so having a team in a larger market is not necessarily more
>lucrative in pro football as it is other sports.
>

The Rams are currently the 29th most valuable NFL team according to Forbes. They are also 29th in home attendance. I don't think it's a stretch at all to assume that a move to Los Angeles...or more specifically a team that was in Los Angeles for 48 years...if that team returns ...being the flagship for the return of professional football to Los Angeles....it isn't a stretch at all that the team will be able to do better than 29th in home attendance...and would be playing in a revenue producing stadium that Kroenke would own...

and although NFL teams do not make money from local tv/cable deals like say the Dodgers and the Lakers are making with Time Warner.... The Rams would also be able to have a pretty decent deal with a Time Warner to broadcast pre-season games as well as Team related programing during the week. And much like Time Warner way over paid for the Laker and Dodger TV deals...I can guarantee that they or someone else will over pay to a lesser extend for those pre-season games and weekly programing.... So there is very much local tv revenue to be made in Los Angeles for an NFL team.




>2. "The league wants a presence in Los Angeles."
>
>Does it really? I think if the league was really that
>concerned about a team in LA it would be there. They are more
>interesting in putting a team in London than they are LA. The
>other owners like having the "move to LA" threat as a
>bargaining chip in stadium negotiations that they wouldn't
>have if there was an actual team team there.

Professional football in Los Angeles was successful ..both financially and otherwise...for a lot more years than it wasn't successful. Don't get it twisted.... There isn't a major city in the country that supports as many professional and major college sports programs than Los Angeles..

repeat..

Not a city in the United States can stand up to the support shown right today for ..The Dodgers.....The Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim.....The Los Angeles Lakers....the Los Angeles Kings....the Los Angeles Clippers....UCLA Football and USC Football....and the LA Galaxy..

no city is supporting that many teams..to the Level that Los Angeles supports those teams....

  

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ThaTruth
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Tue Feb-04-14 10:53 PM

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63. "lol, the FACTS are that he could build a new stadium in St Louis..."
In response to Reply # 62


          

for what's going to cost just to relocate to LA and that's before actually getting a stadium out there. Its also a FACT that it will cost a helluva lot more to build a stadium in LA than it would in St Louis. So at the end of the day its going to cost at least double, and possibly triple to move to LA than it would to stay in St Louis and there's not going to be enough extra revenue in LA to offset that huge of a gap. It all comes down to money and Stan is a businessman with St Louis roots and the majority of his non-sports related development business is based in St Louis so he has those interests to consider as well.

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

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Tek4mula
Member since Nov 11th 2008
1451 posts
Tue Feb-04-14 11:26 PM

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64. "I don't know that I'd go calling that a fact"
In response to Reply # 63


  

          

The numbers that were being thrown around in that article you posted were pretty suspect. He was saying something like $700M+ for the cost of relocation before building a stadium came from 2 separate questionable assumptions.

First he just assumed the relocation fee the NFL would want would be north of $500M. I don't know where he got that number from but the reports back from 2011 when it looked like AEG was serious about bringing the Chargers up were that the NFL was hoping to get a $275M relocation fee. He doesn't really explain why he thinks the NFL's asking price has doubled in the last couple years.

The second part is that relocating teams don't have access to the $200M loan from the league stadium fund. It's a loan under very favorable terms that every owner would want but it's not free, I don't think you can say that not having access to this fund counts as a straight $200M out of the owners pocket. Also, I'm just guessing, but I think the rules governing the league stadium fun are in the league charter, not the CBA, which means the owners could probably amend them with a vote. I would assume that if a moving team negotiated a relocation fee accepted by the NFL it would probably include an agreement from the owners to vote to allow them access to the fund.

It would still cost some serious change to get a move to LA, but that $700M quoted in the article you posted looks more like lightly supported opinion than fact.

  

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smutsboy
Member since Jun 29th 2002
33301 posts
Tue Feb-04-14 04:51 PM

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61. "RE: Football follies in St. Louis (Swipe)"
In response to Reply # 57


  

          

>while our payments on the place still have years to run

  

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Warren Coolidge
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41998 posts
Sun Feb-09-14 11:18 PM

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65. "Fox affiliate in St. Louis speaking on the Rams (link)"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://www.rams-news.com/should-st-louis-be-worried-about-the-silence-of-the-rams-video/

What these guys are talking about is exactly what I've been saying.... the energy from the fan base just isn't there in St. Louis right now..

also...they are confirming that the Rams never "negotiated" during the thing about the dome..only providing written proposals....

and..

Kroenke isn't returning the Governors calls to start negotiations..

  

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