If you ask Charles Barkley which five players he has on his all-time top five NBA players list today, this is the answer he'll give:

1. Michael Jordan

2. Oscar Robertson

3. Wilt Chamberlain

4. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

5. Bill Russell

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nba/news/20131028/charles-barkley-on-lebron-james-kobe-bryant-jason-collins/

Charles Barkley: LeBron can't crack my all-time top five

Turner Sports tips off its 2013-14 NBA coverage with an opening-night doubleheader of Bulls-Heat and Lakers-Clippers on Tuesday. Before the games, TNT's popular Inside the NBA studio show will air live at 7 p.m. ET from New York City's Flatiron Plaza. As part of the promotion for the start of the season, the quartet of Charles Barkley, Ernie Johnson, Shaquille O'Neal and Kenny Smith met with a small group of reporters on Monday afternoon in New York. During that outing, SI.com sat down with the always-engaging Barkley.

SI.com: Where should we place LeBron James right now in a historical context? Is he a top 10 all-time guy right now on your list?

Barkley: I have him there. But he can't get any higher than where he is. I have Michael Jordan at No. 1. Oscar Robertson at No. 2. Then Wilt Chamberlain, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and Bill Russell. I have Kobe Bryant, LeBron, Tim Duncan, Jerry West and Elgin Baylor after that. Those are my top 10. Those second five fluctuate, but who do I take off my top five? LeBron can get to No. 6 on my list, but here's the thing that bothers me about the whole LeBron debate: I want to know why y'all killed Kobe Bryant! Y'all don't even compare him to LeBron anymore. You are skipping him for LeBron and going right to Michael. I'm still going to take five titles over two. It makes me laugh with my friends -- the media just kills Kobe Bryant. Like he's dead! Five still is a lot more than two!

SI.com: Do you expect LeBron to stay in Miami after this season?

Barkley: That will be an interesting question. I've always personally hoped he would return to Cleveland. That's just my personal opinion.

SI.com: Why has Jason Collins not yet been signed?

Barkley: I think the question is a little unfair because he was on the downside of his career. I'm hoping someone picks him up, but to say nobody has picked him up because he is gay is really unfair. He was on his last legs as it was. It's an interesting situation because if you are a veteran team that needs six fouls and has a chance to win a championship, OK, maybe you sign him. Or he can mentor some young guy who has real potential but had some stuff going on, like a DeMarcus Cousins. Unless you are a championship contender and need a big body who can give you six fouls a game, it is not like he's averaging a bunch of points.

SI.com: For any team that signs him, how much of a media circus would it be?

Barkley: That's a great question. I don't know if it would be a circus. It would be more about how the fans would react. The players would be cool with it. I'd want to see how the fans would react.

SI.com: How many games will the Sixers win this year?

Barkley: Well, sitting Nerlens Noel for the season is probably the smart move. The over-under was 21 wins. I'm taking the under now. If Noel was playing, I would have taken the over. But I think it's a smart move because Noel is not physically or offensively ready to play in the NBA. (Editor's note: The oddsmaker Bovada lists the 76ers' current over/under win total at 16.5.)

SI.com: Last year, you told SI.com that you were not sure whether you would make it to the end of your Turner contract, which concludes in three years. Where does your thinking stand now?

Barkley: I'm going to finish out my contract, and I think I am going to do more games as an analyst this year. I enjoyed doing the games on site. People don't really understand we are in the studio from 8 p.m. to 2:30 in the morning, but we are only working 45 minutes. I have been doing this for 14 years so it was fun being at the games. You have to be on your toes. It was cool saying hello to the players. And I think Turner liked me doing it so I'm going to do more.

SI.com: Have you seen Andrew Wiggins play?

Barkley: First of all, no. Why would I watch a high school player? That's stupid. I've heard all the stuff. OK, he's a great high school player. Let me see what happens when he gets to college. When people ask me who will be the Rookie of the Year, I say, "I don't know." The guys have played against college players. Nobody expected Damian Lillard to win Rookie of the Year. I will watch the Wiggins kid play when I start watching college basketball. I am not going to project how great he will be. I mean, Kwame Brown was a great high school player.

SI.com: How excited are you for the start of this season?

Barkley: It's been a long time since I have been this excited for a season. In the last five or six years, there has probably been five teams that could actually win a championship. I think there are eight legitimate contenders this year if everything goes their way. There are four elite teams in each conference so I am excited to look at some of these teams. I mean, the Washington Generals might make the playoffs this year! I love the Wizards getting Marcin Gortat.
All you guys act like Miami is a juggernaut. First of all, they went seven games with the Pacers in last season's Eastern Conference finals and they should have lost to the Spurs in the NBA Finals. It ain't like they are the Michael Jordan Bulls! Listen, Miami, congratulations, they had a fantastic run. But it ain't like they swept the Pacers and Spurs. Anyone who doesn't think the Spurs blew that series does not know basketball. Now if Greg Oden can play, Miami will be tough to beat. But when they play against big teams, they really struggle.

SI.com: Shaq faces the most criticism of your studio analysts. Why do you think that is?

Barkley: Listen, man, we love Shaq on the show. I don't understand why people worry about this. It's like when I watch ESPN's show. I have never watched and thought, "This guy sucks." For me, it's, "Dude, who is playing tonight and tell me some stuff." But I don't hear criticisms of me either (laughs).

SI.com: I know you love the NFL. What teams have impressed you this year?

Barkley: Every team that has a good quarterback is successful and every team that does not have a good quarterback is not. Andy Reid has done a great job, but the Chiefs getting Alex Smith took them to a whole other level. They have changed the rules so much where it is a 100 percent offensive game and your team is dictated by how your quarterback plays. It is amazing to me.
***
During the meeting with reporters, the TNT crew was asked about ESPN's NBA Countdown. Here's a partial transcript:

Question: How aware are you of the struggles of ESPN's studio show regarding a consistent group of on-air staffers?

Shaq: The thing that I like about our show is they allow us to be ourselves. You know Chuck is an a-hole, you know Kenny knows everything, you know Ernie is a genius and you all know that I mumble (laughs).

Johnson: I don't think any of us think about anyone else. We have enough stuff to deal with for our own show on a nightly basis. I just think there is no way to predict what will work. You put these three or four guys together and it clicks, but there is no way to know that. We did not know it would happen when it was just Charles, Kenny and I. I thought Charles would get sick of this after six shows and say, "What else I am going to do?" But to his credit he still comes in saying the same he does every night: "Let's have fun tonight."
Smith: I pay attention to what is happening in TV, but in the 16 years I have been doing this, I have probably watched the other basketball shows 16 times. I don't like to listen to anyone else. I want to form my opinions. We talk like we are watching the game at home together.

Barkley: I don't look at it as a competition with those ESPN guys. First of all, those guys are our friends. We know all those guys and we want their show to be successful. It's not a competition. We are not on the same nights. It's not like we are matching up against them. I watch their show all the time so I am going to watch the games they have on. But I don't watch their show to critique their talent.
Shaq and I like to make people have fun. I think that is probably the difference in our shows. We really want to make people have fun. Think about it. We are on from 8 to two in the morning and you can't keep people's attention span for that long a period of time if you just X-and-O people to death about basketball. That's why our show is different.

******************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

Geto Boys, Poison Clan, UGK, Eightball & MJG, OutKast, Goodie Mob

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God

Someone could formulate an argument for leaving Russell up and dropping Wilt, but I'd never buy it.

*


"D is for what I serve, I don't be on no curb, she aint no junky neither, I ain't no dope dealer" - 3000

grassrootsphilosopher

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

_________________________

And no Magic in top 10, please.




----------
I Love That Dirty Water...Boston Your My Home

___________________

Mar-A-Lago delenda est

that MJ was at with only one.

so Bron gonna need to figure something out to get there.

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Mar-A-Lago delenda est

.

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Mar-A-Lago delenda est

>.

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Mar-A-Lago delenda est

Dwayne Wade is going to be a 20 million-dollar ankle weight in another year or two so hopefully they understand that.

Regardless, we'll see what happens but the point is Lebron is on pace to be better than Jordan no matter how mad that makes y'all & I don't subscribe to the notion he needs six rings to do it anyway.

He's currently three MVPs & a ring up on him at the same age while being a more versatile & dominant player the past couple seasons than Jordan ever was.

>Regardless, we'll see what happens but the point is Lebron is
>on pace to be better than Jordan no matter how mad that makes
>y'all & I don't subscribe to the notion he needs six rings to
>do it anyway.

And Tom Brady was "on pace" to be better than Montana, how's that working out? none of that projecting stuff matters until it's actually done. Bron might pass Jordan in MVPs but Mike could've easily won several more so nobody will care. They'll still care about 6-0 in the Finals with 6 Finals MVPs though. You may not subscribe to the notion that Bron needs 6 to get there but most people do, so unless Bron wins 6 the consensus will still be Mike is GOAT.


>He's currently three MVPs & a ring up on him at the same age
>while being a more versatile & dominant player the past couple
>seasons than Jordan ever was.

More versatile, sure; more dominant, debatable. Won't matter unless he gets 6.

___________________

Mar-A-Lago delenda est

and since the dude is a free agent *this summer*, then it really doesn't matter.

>>Regardless, we'll see what happens but the point is Lebron
>is
>>on pace to be better than Jordan no matter how mad that
>makes
>>y'all & I don't subscribe to the notion he needs six rings
>to
>>do it anyway.
>
>And Tom Brady was "on pace" to be better than Montana, how's
>that working out?

Fuck no, he wasn't.

He was a borderline game-manager early on & that was a Top 2-3 D he was playing with while sneaking field goal victories.

Anyone comparing that to Montana didn't watch Montana.

Later once Brady started getting numbers & MVPs, he couldn't win

>none of that projecting stuff matters until
>it's actually done.
Lebron LAST YEAR is better than Michael Jordan ever was, that's my point.

So I'm not worried about projections or bothering to argue a career case while Bron is in the middle of his prime.

>Bron might pass Jordan in MVPs but Mike
>could've easily won several more so nobody will care. They'll
>still care about 6-0 in the Finals with 6 Finals MVPs though.
>You may not subscribe to the notion that Bron needs 6 to get
>there but most people do,
most people are idiots & again, I don't care.

>so unless Bron wins 6 the consensus
>will still be Mike is GOAT.
>
>
>>He's currently three MVPs & a ring up on him at the same age
>>while being a more versatile & dominant player the past
>couple
>>seasons than Jordan ever was.
>
>More versatile, sure; more dominant, debatable. Won't matter
>unless he gets 6.
>
uh-huh, anything else, Dr Huffinpuff?

because I already said I don't care to debate a half done career with a finished one other than to say what I already said.

I'll leave that to people who still wanna pretend Kobe's got another in 'em.

>and since the dude is a free agent *this summer*, then it
>really doesn't matter.

It'll matter when Bron don't have a legit championship-caliber #2 option to run with.

>>And Tom Brady was "on pace" to be better than Montana, how's
>>that working out?
>
>Fuck no, he wasn't.

At 30 Brady had won 3 Super Bowls, NFL MVP, and broke the single-season TD record, so by that age he was a ring & MVP up on Montana while being a more dominant player that season than Joe ever was. so by your own 'on pace' standards Brady was on pace to be better than Montana.

>He was a borderline game-manager early on & that was a Top 2-3
>D he was playing with while sneaking field goal victories.
>
>Anyone comparing that to Montana didn't watch Montana.

The borderline game-manager stuff doesn't apply past the first season he replaced Bledsoe: he led the league in passing TDs the following season & led in passing yards a few years after that. If you compare Brady's first 6 seasons to Montana's first 6 their stats are remarkably similar; compare their first 2 Super Bowl performances and their numbers are almost identical. And Montana was playing with Top 2-3 D's behind him for his SB wins as well so that's neither here nor there.

>Later once Brady started getting numbers & MVPs, he couldn't
>win

Brady's a desperation throw helmet catch away from 4 rings with an undefeated championship season. On the flip-side, Bron's a missed FT/ stepback 3 off rebound in traffic from being 1-3 in the Finals.

>Lebron LAST YEAR is better than Michael Jordan ever was,
>that's my point.

So what are you waiting for then? If you want to crown him, then crown his ass! but before you do, you'll have to address this first:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=jordami01&y1=1989&p2=jamesle01&y2=2013

MJ had more PTS/gm, AST/gm, STL/gm, same REB/gm with more offensive rebounds, same BLK/gm

So, yeah.

>So I'm not worried about projections or bothering to argue a
>career case while Bron is in the middle of his prime.

So you're not worried about projections, while making projections that Bron will pass Jordan? How does that work, some kind of Zen thing?


>because I already said I don't care to debate a half done
>career with a finished one other than to say what I already
>said.
>
>I'll leave that to people who still wanna pretend Kobe's got
>another in 'em.

Six or it don't matter.

Anything else I'll leave to people who still wanna pretend AI ever had even one in him*

___________________

Mar-A-Lago delenda est

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

Really think we need to all choose a separation mark year wise for judging eras/players.

Inflated stats/shitty defenses/no shot clock.. Can we really judge those guys with the players now

best guard of a generation that included jerry west and walt frazier. the guy was lebron before lebron. i have never, ever heard anyone who saw him play say he was overrated, in fact many think he is UNDERrated even as a consistently top 10 player. a few stat dorks have tried to knock him and wilt down, but they seldom present an argument that does anything other than cast a modicum of doubt over the assertion that they were the top TWO players of all time.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

It's his list, let him cook

People chastize Kobe for playing with Snaq but give DShade and Bron passes. The superfiends could win 10 rings and all of them getting cuban'bed.

None of the players on Barkley's list except Jordan needed another great superstar beside them. They proved themselves in their own right.

It's his list and he could put who he wants there.

No empathy for white misery (c) BDot

"root for everybody black haters say that's crazy, wow..."

>
>None of the players on Barkley's list except Jordan needed
>another great superstar beside them.

I threw common sense out the window to fit my agenda.

No empathy for white misery (c) BDot

"root for everybody black haters say that's crazy, wow..."

>I threw common sense out the window to fit my agenda.

WHEN do you keep common sense in the car with you?

No empathy for white misery (c) BDot

"root for everybody black haters say that's crazy, wow..."

How many chips does Big O have without Cap? Cap without Big O or Magic? LeBron without Wade? Wilt without West? Notice a pattern?

OGs get a pass. Lebron didn't just need Wade. He needed Bosh, Wade, and two years of curses placed on every team in the eastern conference.

No empathy for white misery (c) BDot

"root for everybody black haters say that's crazy, wow..."

20% of that list applies 100%.

---
"People that need positivity around them all the time are weak individuals in my book" - @lilduval

_________________________

But yea, it really is.

---------------------------------------------------------

C: Kareem (Shyt on every HOF center including Wilt/Dream/Chief)
PF: ELMO (Best all-around)
SF: Bird (Was an under-rated defender & Bron is still a mediocre jump shooter)
SG: Cheese (God)
PG: Magic (GOAT floor vision)

WHAT'S GOOD *****? What's REALLY good?!?!????!!! Ha HA!
http://40.media.tumblr.com/d8e2daf9f3f37244cd05436bcdf05973/tumblr_mt4qibKq4c1rgam01o1_1280.png

.

Bron

Shaq

Magic

Bird

Jordan

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

Respect. Can't be mad at that list at all.

******************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

Geto Boys, Poison Clan, UGK, Eightball & MJG, OutKast, Goodie Mob

realistically say Lebron belongs ahead of Russell/Kareem/Wilt/Jordan

but he's steadily climbing that list

Although I still maintain that Russell is on here moreso for what his team's accomplished rather than him being a transcendant type of talent like the others on this list.

Russell had a very high basketball IQ to compensate for not having otherwordly talent like Kareem and Wilt.

grassrootsphilosopher

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

_________________________

russell? y'all have lost your goddamn minds.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

______

in the memory of NYC upt JUX�

regular and post season stats,etc... i can name alot of great players not seeing that resume.

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

So you all that say Russell must don't know about those 11 championships huh?

Russell is the most overrated player of all time. Good defender, TERRIBLE offensive player. Terrible. Played with 2-5 HoF teammates EVERY season.

He was a career 43% shooter who only shot 50% from the field once in his caree, despite playing in an era with a narrower lane and where (according to legend) only HE played defense. What was stopping him from scoring?

He'd be a hall of famer in any era, but in the modern era he's Dennis Rodman.

>Russell is the most overrated player of all time. Good
>defender, TERRIBLE offensive player. Terrible. Played with
>2-5 HoF teammates EVERY season.
>
>He was a career 43% shooter who only shot 50% from the field
>once in his caree, despite playing in an era with a narrower
>lane and where (according to legend) only HE played defense.
>What was stopping him from scoring?
>
>He'd be a hall of famer in any era, but in the modern era he's
>Dennis Rodman.

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

as a *basketball player* is somewhat inflated

but

he STILL BELONGS in the discussion of the Top 5 Greatest players of all time, make no mistake abt it. He has *11* rings...eleven rings. And he won one of those as a PLAYER/COACH.

If a qb won 11 rings in the nfl we wouldn't care how average his skills were, he'd be in the discussion of the greatest qbs ever w/o question.

All Oscar did was put up some impressive stats...and won one championship w/a prime Lew Alcindor.

Big O was great I'm sure, but he would have to come off Charles' list in favor of Lebron.

Bill Russell's legacy is like another all-time great, though, - Rocky Marciano. Because Marciano was the only heavyweight to retire undefeated, he belongs in the discussion of the all time greatest fighters - even though I can think of many heavyweights who were actually better but weren't/aren't as heralded.

>Russell is the most overrated player of all time. Good
>defender, TERRIBLE offensive player. Terrible. Played with
>2-5 HoF teammates EVERY season.
>
>He was a career 43% shooter who only shot 50% from the field
>once in his caree, despite playing in an era with a narrower
>lane and where (according to legend) only HE played defense.
>What was stopping him from scoring?
>
>He'd be a hall of famer in any era, but in the modern era he's
>Dennis Rodman.

grassrootsphilosopher

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

russell, constant and building block of championships everywhere he went. even as a player coach. he was the greatness around which the team was constructed.

no one was constructing teams around horry and kerr.

he was basically Ben Wallace

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

and ben wallace, champion
dennis rodman uber champion and hof'er

russell did what they did at its maximum level, and hell made a place in basketball for their skillset.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/1969.html

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

players...

they don't win 11 championships w/o Russell, period.

grassrootsphilosopher

55 game winning streak 2 NCAA titles
Gold Medal
11 World Championships

The constant in all these scenarios is russell. people became hof'ers off of his greatness.

Without Russell the Celts aren't winning those championships. He was the ultimate winner and leader on the floor. He was always prepared and knew how to put his team in position to win. In top of that he had to do it against Chamberlin year in and year out.