What makes lyrics hip-hop? Is a particular perspective required? Is certain subject matter required?





"My turn to speak in tongues"

--Photosynthesis

"the unexpected takes hold"--Robynwildchild

In my opinion its not about subject matter but delivery.. composition.

Its the way the words are crafted to get up next to.. to get comfortable with.. the beat, or lack thereof. Complexity comes into play far more than with other genres of music.. The subject matter is paramount of course but it can be as varied as the thoughts in the writers head. Its the way that its just just line for line, but word for word in each line, the way that saying 'round instead of around, or fa sho instead of for sure, or vice versa.. how each little pronunciation variation effects the rest of the song.

Hip hop was not my first musical love, and its not my only musical love, but in my opinion its the easiest to connect with.. to get that pure emotional connect from artist to listener that musics about for me. Its the most raw anger, pain, rage, love, lust, friendship.. expression.. because the greats craft their music in a way that sounds like they're just talkin wit you, bein' real, but the way its crafted with the rhyme schemes and everything makes it sound more powerful, giving force to the words..

But thats just me.. maybe that don't even make sense.. I tried tho.

"What is done in love always takes place beyond good and evil." -- Nietzsche

but should you say, for example, "Fo' sho'" in lyrics, like copping a personna, if you really don't talk that way--or is it cooler to just be yourself and not go too far into what you're not, crafting lyrics that are closer to what you yourself are and are experiencing, rather than what "the greats" experienced.

I love the greats, I love hip-hop...but is any particular perspective what hip-hop is? It may well be...I don't know..

Flow is flow, I understand that...

I guess I think that if it sounds dope, it sounds dope, and that's all...

See I didn't mean to say you should say fa sho instead of for sure- but that when you're writing a song, one way it'll flow better than the other.. like you got to that point on the page and you originally wrote 'fa sho' (this may be internal if u just write it and know in your head how u meant it to be spoken, but u know what I mean) and you go back and spit it, and think... naw it'd sound more natural, or more dope, or just simply better, if it was 'for sure' in this case.. I was more trying to say you make these little decisions at the time of the songs creation, but that you could be going from fa sho to for sure or from for sure to fa sho.. depending on what works and what felt natural to you.. you know?

Myself.. I don't fit the image of a "rapper" very well.. and I don't speak like one either- I think in my shit you can really tell that.. 'n people are surprised when I tell 'em I've written a lotta songs, worked on a lotta beats.. so I don't believe in giving in to the image 'cause its whats expected, or in trying to emulate the greats.. Other than trying to be as great as they.. nawmean?

"What is done in love always takes place beyond good and evil." -- Nietzsche

I think I do understand what you're sayin, yeah

what Pop Culture and Soundscan have turned Hip-Hop into, allow your thinking to be ruined.

Hip-Hop is simply, what Kool Herc or whoever meant for it to be, back in the 70's;

a culture of LIFE accompanied by a 'way of MUSICAL EXPRESSION' for those excluded by The Popular Culture. Period. The White-man came along in the early 90's and found a way to make nigs sell him their soul for the highest amt. of marketing/advertising that = multi-plat sales.

Its irresponsibly-irrational for a person to set his parameters for his expectations of Hip-Hop, on commercial 'flows', production bells&whistles, or any shallow-depth in lyrical-creativity thats motivated by this reality of a 'Party' culture.

_______________________________________________________

its just *new-Millennium Vernon Johns*... upsetting the BEST racists.

I'm no expert when it comes to hip hop -- (My first love is Jazz) -- But I don't think lyrics make a joint hip hop -- *At least not now~a~daze*

I recall hip hop lyrics once being conscious -- political -- intellectual in some way/shape/or form -- Or just playful -- Unlike the money, hoes, guns, drugs & bling~bling attached to hip hop NOW! -- (not all, but a large majority of hip hop music)

I could be wrong, but I always thought the beat/music/rhythm made hip hop HIP HOP -- Not necessarily the lyrics, nahmean?


I mean, you could flow a buncha nonsense that rhymes, word juggling rambling, etc. -- But put a tight beat to it with vibin' musical accompaniment, and you got a HIP HOP HIT!!!


I'ont know if I answered your question, but that's just my take on the subject ...

A guitar string vibrating, a measure of my soul, a breech in the silence --
I've always felt like words come through me & I write them down... they have no master --- gsquared ♥

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/2/photosynthesis_music.htm

Interesting perspective...I see what you mean about the way the beat sounds. I guess a lot of people say "that's not *real* hip-hop" about one thing, and others say the same about something else, using different grounds.

Me and my band are making music right not that may not be purely hip-hop, but it probably sounds more like hip-hop than anything else I can describe it as. But I'm in the middle...someone might say "that ain't hip-hop" like I'm trying to take what isn't mine, and somebody else might feel "why not just call it hip-hop, stop trying to distance yourself from influences that you should be honoring."

In fact I have to describe it to a newspaper today (setting the stage for how the scene here will perceive us) and I'm a little confused. I have 4 hours to figure it out.

wuz up G
long time no see
but to me
hip hop is something that can't be discribed
it is a day to day fashion
that keeps many ethic groups grasp'n
for understanding of how they relate to the stars
and the lyrics and the cars
it's life poetry
in the making of movies it has no boundries
because some people call r&b hip hop
so why not
just expand on whats there
and who cares
if others don't agree
those are the

haters

i just took a jail house shit
put some water on it

hahahahah lol ahaha

peace

Yo G,

I haven't heard your music, but from what i've read, you're an extremely gifted artist. You may not be hip-hop or you might be, but I think your talent is too diverse to try to label it this or that.

I dunno... Maybe you shouldn't worry about what's hip-hop and just do you. Folks gave up on trying to label The Artist Formerly Known As The Artist Formerly Known As Prince years ago... and he's STILL rockin arenas.

What the hell is Lenny Kravitz? Sometimes he's funky... sometimes he's mellow... sometimes he's rock the house headbangin'. Regardless, folks still listen to him.

I'm just sayin...


"To be a poet is a condition, not a profession."
- Robert Frost

My crappy blog: http://www.livejournal.com/users/eyes_of_mine/

Blind Eye Turning: My book
http://www.lulu.com/content/187759

My other crappy blog:
http://inevitabletruth.blogspot.com/

I wish I had seen your response earlier -- (Considering you only had 4 hours before newspaper time to come ^up^ with press info) -- But I understand how -- When "writing" a description of what you do -- Some kinda *label* describing your SOUND or type of music is needed. If it's "hip hop" flavored -- Or Hip Hop influenced, I don't see why you can't just say THAT -- Instead of having to put in in a specific box, nahmean? But that's easier said than done, I'm sure --

You ever heard of Aesop Rock? -- (probably have, but I'm just askin')

That's my boy -- Unorthodox hip hop alternative sound -- *White Boy*

http://www.last.fm/music/Aesop+Rock/Labor+Days?autostart

http://www.last.fm/music/Aesop+Rock/+wiki

Some folks may say: That ain't hip hop! -- Others may say it is -- But it's what Aesop sez it is -- It's what influences his unique sound -- (Even if it is hybrid or slightly twisted) --

Like Chaotic said tho -- Just do you -- Call your sound what YOU feel & think it is -- With emphasis on your influences -- Whether R&B, Rock, Hip Hop or whatever.

(((Good Luck)))

A guitar string vibrating, a measure of my soul, a breech in the silence --
I've always felt like words come through me & I write them down... they have no master --- gsquared ♥

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/2/photosynthesis_music.htm

I meant what Photo said... only she said it much better than I did.

Hope it went well, G!


"To be a poet is a condition, not a profession."
- Robert Frost

My crappy blog: http://www.livejournal.com/users/eyes_of_mine/

Blind Eye Turning: My book
http://www.lulu.com/content/187759

My other crappy blog:
http://inevitabletruth.blogspot.com/

photo you just brought my waay back....i grew up with hip hop, before it got saran wrapped into some sanitized bullshit(yes miss k is gettin' nasty and cursin')

hip hop was about the lyric...but not in the way you youngins think ....it was slick rick geting through a WHOLE rhyme without a curse and saying more than jay z can hold in his brain cells...it WAS poetry. Take any rakim rhyme and gaurantee you can read it and it STILL has the same beauty....back in the day the MC cared out the content...and everything didn't rest on a wack(yes i said wack)bridge.


KRS 1/Main Source/Pete Rock and CL Smooth/ Big Daddy Kane/ Slick Rick/Dana Dan/Tribe Called Quest/Rakim/MC Lyte....

poetry...aaaahh those were the days...miss k

if you didn't define yourself for yourself you'd be crunched into other peoples fantasies of you an eaten alive.

audre lorde

But why to build and define what you connected with, do you have to tear down somebody else?

I mean to say,

"more than Jay-Z can hold in his brain cell" or something akin to it..

Was describing it as poetry not good enough? Not that I feel compelled to go out of my way to defend Jay or anything, and of course you are entitled to that opinion, but then by association because I'm a fan of Jay-Z and listen to his music, I'm the fool, 'cause I'm listenin' to him, you know what I'm saying? Just because I connect with an artist that you don't, although we've both got our reasons for feeling the way we do..

I've just noticed that theres a tendancy (in all music genres, but especially in hip hop) to tear down an artist because of his content.. which in some cases I understand, but still..

Why do we judge the ARTIST? I listen to a lot of music that deals with violence, hustlin', money, skanless ass women, dead friends and struggles of all kinds.. "stereotypical" for hip hop music.. but only because I can connect with it, it has meaning for me.

People been villianizing artists for as long as I've had an eye on the industry.. including me back in the day.. but it ain't the artists fault. It ain't the record execs fault. It ain't nobody's fault but the CONSUMER.. cause who keeps buyin' the c.d.'s, puttin' cash in everybodys wallets? The CONSUMER does. Yeah, execs are going to try and produce albums that are formulaic in a sense that they will appeal to the largest customer base.. thats their job. They get paid lots of money to do that. Artists will write/perform it because A.) Its representative of their life, and for most of us (I'm not rich 'n famous but I do perform 'n play) its theraputic, a way to relieve the tension and pain or B.) They fake cats that wanna make a few dollars.

But like I said, the people SPENDING money on this, are US, the consumer. Blame anyone who spends money on it if you need to blame somebody on the state of hip hop today.

Anyway, I just thought I'd say that, its my opinion, I respectfully offer it as a counterpoint to your own..

Hope y'all are havin' a good day now, ya hear?

"What is done in love always takes place beyond good and evil." -- Nietzsche

I can’t do what I CAN’T do
I can’t do you, what I haven’t been through
Even if there’s demand to

Do what I gotta do
Not what roots or wu clan do
Do what’s true as a true fan
as a woman or man
from Atlanta, Indiana or Canada
we’re all canonized
from within if that’s where we begin
and away from the corpus runnin’ on a heart of tin
replication, viral dissemination
metastatic habits on automatic can’t hack it

you need magic
your own plan of attack a crack at an attitude
massive as a master
or as passive as shattered glass
I can’t I won’t I do

"for life's not a paragraph

And death i think is no parenthesis"

e.e. cummings

Do what you do, do what you know.

Didn't mean to say "make music that sounds like whats popular so you can get rich" or anything.. if violence, slangin, drugs and alcohol are what you know- then do what you know. If what you know is something else, by all means, be true to yourself, because as far as hip hop goes, and as far as OKP goes,

You is who you was 'fore you got here.

"What is done in love always takes place beyond good and evil." -- Nietzsche

Purity professed is lying incest

I think that one point of contention underlined by the question that frames this debate is the matter of Purity. Purity is the price paid when a music becomes a movement. Each emcee, deejay, aficionado has his own concept of pure hiphop – however flawed. And I would imagine this perception is radically different between those in their 40s, 20s, teens, American-born, European, etc. Is it only the oldest, New York-born participants that have the purest view? (Obviously not, if this whole thing really has legs.)

So then, it’s really not about the mostest bestest hiphop, but what contains the spirit of this movement – and then some. Too often, limitations are drawn under false premises. And some of the baddest emcees are such because of their connection with other great poets who lived before the advent of the sampler.

But hiphop doesn’t restrict a poet’s universal appeal. I see hiphop as a mode, as a tradition that informs a poet – by impressing upon him the unique insight of hiphop and as an expression of poetry on the whole. Hiphop is the evolution of the poetry dialectic.

Furthermore, poetry and music are substantially aural. Therefore, it has to survive in the air before competing on the page. Even a very cerebral emcee must first pass the test of Jay-Z’s supreme aural aesthetic.

I’m not in any way trying to discredit what has been previously written on this topic, I think we’re all revolving around some form of the same awareness. But don’t let me put words in anybody’s mouth…

"for life's not a paragraph

And death i think is no parenthesis"

e.e. cummings

I think that was very finely stated right there..

Bravo, you.

"What is done in love always takes place beyond good and evil." -- Nietzsche

Thanks, man. I dig what you, Invisible and the rest are saying about this. I just think there are probably a handful of pure hiphop gods on the planet, and the rest of us have to deal with being mere mortals, a mix of the essence and something else.

"for life's not a paragraph

And death i think is no parenthesis"

e.e. cummings

I'm not tearing down Jay Z because of his content...I'm the most OPEN person in the world...because i am an artist myself(visual and writer)...i think and believe i have the right to think that his lyrics can not hold like poetry...that's important to me...it may not be important to YOU...but it is important to me...and in my opinion...Jay Z doesn't do it for...don't take it personal.

stay love....miss k

if you didn't define yourself for yourself you'd be crunched into other peoples fantasies of you an eaten alive.

audre lorde

Oh by all means, of course.. you can feel however you feel and have every right to that, I'm not tryin' to take that away.. Hell if you wanted you could say anything at all, and thats your right as well.

The tone just ended up coming out like Jay was retarded, especially next to Slick Rick.. which I wouldn't say you were wrong to feel that way if you did, I was just saying by that tone, it makes me initially get a little defensive because I do listen to him..

Was just trying to offer my opinion, didn't mean to detract from yours or sound like I was coming down on you for it. If I did, I apologize.

"What is done in love always takes place beyond good and evil." -- Nietzsche

as someone who is about the same age as Jay Z...maybe even two years older ( yes i'm cute and in my thirtie )i base my opinions a thoughts on the hip hop i grew up with... no need to apologize tho'...like i said an opinion can be argued and debated...stay love...miss k

if you didn't define yourself for yourself you'd be crunched into other peoples fantasies of you an eaten alive.

audre lorde

...the input and encouragement and suggestions.

This wasn't just about me though, of course. It's something to think about.

Me and my deejay friend explained the music in words to the interviewer, and gave her a CD. I had my guitar with me and she asked me to play a song. I did, and she said "It's like the Gorillaz." So I was flattered, and the genre thing resolved.

*Yes Indeed*


Sometimes we either take things for granted or accept things without thinking about WHY? -- WHAT? -- WHO? -- WHEN? -- WHERE?



Note: If you make a tape/CD -- I want a copy!!! --


(((INBOX)))

A guitar string vibrating, a measure of my soul, a breech in the silence --
I've always felt like words come through me & I write them down... they have no master --- gsquared ♥

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/2/photosynthesis_music.htm

I've been thinking on how to respond to a question like this. Seems like a pretty straightforward question and answer. But than again...

Lyrics:
Sure, so long as they "flow" and that's when you "hear it" not read it. How you use words (again flow) will be the deal-breaker whether or not you hold someone's interest. That's any genre really...but we'll keep it hiphop.

Voice:
Wow...this goes w/o saying to me. On the one side there are your Bustas and Pharaoh Monch that "grab you" w/ their animated vocals while on the other side of the spectrum a GZA or Nas can "lure" you in w/a gritty-conversational style, as if they just walk w/the beat. Thing is to just know your voice. Being comfortable w/what you're saying.

Subject Matter:
In actuality it doesn't matter what you rhyme about. Just so long as the above mentioned is in place. But going back to those, it's still not 100% cut and dry. What qualifies as good lyrics and a good voice, shit...my opinions...is all very much subjective.


but i had fun trying to answer this


<--really!,have one--


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