So I'm watching the Wire for the first time. First episodic tv series of the modern era that I've watched. There is SO much plot. It's like I don't have time to think because the content is doing all the thinking for me.

My thesis is that television series are more plot-driven than film.

I haven't watched The Sopranos or Breaking Bad. I get the feeling these series will have very little value against the test of time. After you take away the 'whodunit' element...they're actually quite vacuous. The Wire too. None of this shit will mean anything later on.

Film lives on because you experience it. Television, at it's peak, offers you a mental distraction. A puzzle to put together.

Starting with The Wire and then calling TV "vacuous" seems odd since the lessons it was showing are still relevant 9 years later. The Oscar winners the years it aired were: Slumdog Millionaire, The Hurt Locker, The King's Speech, The Artist and Argo. I don't think many people who rank those experiences over The Wire.

Peak TV and great films are usually about character. Even plot heavy shows like The Wire are about characters and their growth or lack thereof over the years and through the plotlines. The Wire has a lot of plot but, ultimately, it's not about if the cops will find the stash, it's about the price each character and the city itself are paying to hide/find the stash.

TV has the upper hand when it comes to character growth because it can show the growth over years and tens of hours but, on the other hand, in terms of standing the test of time, it's a hell of a lot easier to watch two hours of a movie or even 6 - 8 hours of a trilogy than 6 - 8 seasons of a TV show.

On a more basic level, TV needs more plot simply because it needs to fill more hours. You can get away with a film that is almost completely a character study but it's incredibly hard to get enough people to come back and watch a weekly hour long character piece.

That being said, before a decade or so ago, most TV was disposable. TV was simply a way to get viewers to the commercials. Film is where you went to be an artist or make a statement.

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NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

>The Oscar winners the years it aired were:
>Slumdog Millionaire, The Hurt Locker, The King's Speech, The
>Artist and Argo.

little off there, bud.

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it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

you know?

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it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

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NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

>I haven't watched The Sopranos or Breaking Bad. I get the
>feeling these series will have very little value against the
>test of time. After you take away the 'whodunit'
>element...they're actually quite vacuous. The Wire too.
>None of this shit will mean anything later on.

What an asinine comment to make about things you haven't seen. I expected better from you, Denny. There's literally no "whodunit" aspect to the Sopranos, and it arguably has the richest character development of any series, ever. Much more so than The Wire IMO. (The only thing close in terms of character development is Mad Men IMO.)

I actually came in hear ready to agree with your general premise, because I'm a movie head through and through and the best cinema is still far better than the best TV IMO.

With that said, though, there is plenty of very worthwhile TV, and a lot of it is not entirely plot driven. The Sopranos is damn near Shakespearean in its brilliance, especially in the middle seasons. It's also fucking hilarious, in a dark way.

I'm not a die hard Breaking Bad guy, but the video essay below does a great job of showing how exceptional the visual storytelling is, and how deeply thoughtful the creators of the show are in terms of subtle references and symbolism. (The essay focuses on the next-to-last episode, so don't watch it if you don't want spoilers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZllwNlyTfLs)

>Film lives on because you experience it. Television, at it's
>peak, offers you a mental distraction. A puzzle to put
>together.

Again, I don't entirely disagree, but you're wildly unqualified to make this statement having, you know, never watched any of the television you're talking about.

NBC's Hannibal starts out like the TV you described in Season 1, then gets deliciously weird in season 2, then completely goes into fever-dream nightmarish david lynchian surrealism for the first half of season 3. I've never seen anything on TV like it, and it was on a fucking network!

If I were you, I'd watch the Sopranos start to finish after you finish The Wire. It's a complete masterpiece, and was arguably my gateway drug into art house cinema.

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The format still calls for bumpers at the end of episodes and pickups at the beginning. I've seen a few episodes of Sopranos because I was folding down the 5.1 mix to stereo for work...correct me if I'm wrong...but every episode typically ends with some sort of bumper/teaser that promotes the next show. They leave you with a 'What's going to happen to Jimmy next week' type question(s). That's what I meant by whodunit.

I think that's a pretty good distinction between tv and film. Film doesn't need to promote itself. When the audience enters the theater the promotion ends. The tv format needs to promote the next episode which I think is sort of constraining and perhaps one of the reasons that it's forced to be more plot-driven?

For the record...I really like The Wire. But I just don't think it's on the same artistic level as film. I forgot to mention that I also watched the first season of True Detective and felt the exact same way.

One critique I have with the Wire is that the moral ambiguity of the characters sometimes feels forced and it makes the plot a little predictable at times. It feels like they're just ticking off boxes in the character development. If a character is first introduced with positive moral value...then you know the next time they're involved with a sub-plot, they will give him/her a negative moral value and vice versa.

Another observation which I think shows both a strength and a weakness.....they clearly follow a 'show don't tell' philosophy. The plot and characters are revealed to the viewer rather than explained. They expect the viewer to deduce and infer. That's cool and was the reason I kept watching after a couple episodes. But after a certain amount of time it started feeling like they were being demonstrative about this philosophy. Almost going out of their way just to PROVE that they are 'showing and not telling' which makes it seem like an exercise at times. Kinda like doing it for it's own sake rather than serving the story.

Lastly....I absolutely LOVE that people watched this series and were exposed to it's worldview. Especially in regards to the war on drugs. I also commend it for humanizing the characters in the context of race and poverty. I LOVE that upper-middle class people watched this series and empathized with teen-aged dope dealers and runners. I can't think of another film or tv show that presented these characters with this particular view of the drugwar and race that reached this many eyeballs.

I don't think I'm gonna change my mind about any of this.

The Previously On isn't "promotion"; it's to catch people up. TV can't win in this case since you had trouble keeping up with the story in The Wire but then you claim it isn't art because it has Prev On aimed at helping you keep tabs on what had happened.

And commercial films that are parts of a series often have teasers now for the next film. Nevermind that trailers that precede the film.

Mostly though, the idea that plot driven is somehow less artistic is confounding to me. The vast majority of films that are made are plot driven. The Wire added moral dilemma to the basic whodunnit element of their plots but then you complain that there's too much moral dilemmas.

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NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

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i will not let finite disappointment undermine infinite hope
- Cory Booker

Football is a simple game; 22 men chase a ball for 90 minutes, and at the end the Germans always win
- Gary Lineker

However, I do agree that my first trip through the Wire was mainly keeping up with the plot. The 2nd and 3rd viewings were much more rewarding.

Cause I have no idea how someone could watch these episodes individually with a week apart. I don't think I could follow what's happening without viewing them in consecutive chunks.

>So I'm watching the Wire for the first time. First episodic
>tv series of the modern era that I've watched. There is SO
>much plot. It's like I don't have time to think because the
>content is doing all the thinking for me.
>
>My thesis is that television series are more plot-driven than
>film.
>
>I haven't watched The Sopranos or Breaking Bad. I get the
>feeling these series will have very little value against the
>test of time. After you take away the 'whodunit'
>element...they're actually quite vacuous. The Wire too.
>None of this shit will mean anything later on.
>
>Film lives on because you experience it. Television, at it's
>peak, offers you a mental distraction. A puzzle to put
>together.

Saw this on twitter and it kinda blew me away:

"Simon, IIRC, has acknowledged exactly this kind of thing when Bodie was killed later on. He can be seen shooting his pistol (attacking) only diagonally during the attack on his corner, and he can not run away (move backwards). He is killed in the basic l-shaped move of a knight, the over and forward L-Shape movement of that piece. In this case, the knight is O-Dog whom has moved up in Marlo's crew to that of an enforcer, walks around a set of stairs and then attacks straight forward towards Bodie."

https://digife.com