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Subject: "Silence (Martin Scorsese, 2016)" Previous topic | Next topic
bwood
Member since Apr 03rd 2006
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Fri Oct-21-16 01:21 PM

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"Silence (Martin Scorsese, 2016)"


          

Saw a 15 minute sizzle reel today.
Scorsese da gawd about to come through and crush the buildings.

Da gawd came out and was talking passionately about this and how he's glad he was finally had to make it. Said he's had this project in the cards for 30 years.

Can't wait to see the finished product near Thanksgiving. Drops in limited release on December 23rd.

------------------------------------------
America from 9:00 on: https://youtu.be/GUwLCQU10KQ

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
A sweeping epic meditation on faith.
Nov 19th 2016
1
You met Scorsese the gawd?
Nov 19th 2016
2
      Thank you beloved.
Nov 19th 2016
3
Interminable Eurocentric Christian Torture Porn
Dec 07th 2016
4
I might have misread the dedication
Dec 07th 2016
5
Wasnt just you
Dec 13th 2016
6
Yeah, you misread it.
Jan 15th 2017
16
christian martyr porn
Jan 10th 2017
7
Call me crazy...
Jan 14th 2017
10
agreed 100%, I'd rather be hung up over the pit than watch this again
Jan 14th 2017
8
Naa. Not good.
Jan 14th 2017
9
I saw a different movie than most of you, I guess.
Jan 14th 2017
11
Some quotes from a couple of smart critics I like:
Jan 14th 2017
12
^^^^^^^^^^
Jan 15th 2017
13
how many sleeps though?
Jan 15th 2017
14
Haha, none for me. And none for my wife either!
Jan 15th 2017
15
Sounds like you saw the same movie.
Jan 16th 2017
17
Some thoughts:
Jan 16th 2017
18
Completely agree with this take...
Jan 17th 2017
19

bwood
Member since Apr 03rd 2006
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Sat Nov-19-16 06:55 PM

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1. "A sweeping epic meditation on faith."
In response to Reply # 0


          

I'm heavily embargoed but Scorsese da gawd is challenging the spirit of Kurosawa.


It's alot to take in, so I'm going to have to see it agian.

I got to shake his hand and tell him he channelled Kurosawa and he was so taken aback and humbled. I made his day.

------------------------------------------
America from 9:00 on: https://youtu.be/GUwLCQU10KQ

  

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Madvillain 626
Member since Apr 25th 2006
10018 posts
Sat Nov-19-16 07:32 PM

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2. "You met Scorsese the gawd?"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

Damn my breh, you out here.

Thanks for doing what you do and bringing us these sneak previews. You been lowkey feeding us for year

btw: Dr. Strange at Universal City IMAX was liiiiit. Was def zooted out of my mind with milk duds on deck

-------------------------------
If life is stupendous one cannot also demand that it should be easy. - Robert Musil

  

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bwood
Member since Apr 03rd 2006
8614 posts
Sat Nov-19-16 08:51 PM

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3. "Thank you beloved."
In response to Reply # 2


          

I'm glad you got to see Strange in IMAX elevated.

------------------------------------------
America from 9:00 on: https://youtu.be/GUwLCQU10KQ

  

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
25919 posts
Wed Dec-07-16 03:39 AM

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4. "Interminable Eurocentric Christian Torture Porn"
In response to Reply # 0


          

THIS. MOVIE. WOULD. NOT. END.

This movie will launch a lot of think pieces. I thought it was painfully Eurocentric. So much happens to so many people, I found it hard to really care about the fate of one guy, Andrew Garfield's Rodrigues. (We couldn't even get a Portagee in one of the two supporting role?! C'mon!) I believe even the dedication of the film was to the Jesuit priests and ignored the countless Japanese who were murdered for their beliefs.

First screening I've been to in which I've heard snoring. And I heard a handful of different people snoring.

The audio dubbing was so bad at times that I thought it was an homage to old Kung Fu flicks.

The Inquisitor distracted me. Critics seem to love it and he definitely kept your attention but people were laughing in my screening at him. Kind of reminded me of Bechir in Hateful 8; felt like a caricature and out of place alongside the rest of the film. But I'm in the minority on this one.

Moments of it look beautiful. Wildly, insanely impressive that it was shot for under 50 million dollars.

I'm a non-believer but other crises of faith movies have won me over. A guy being tortured/watching torture to get him to give up his faith isn't something I needed to see. Nor did it seem like the most interesting angle to take on faith in Japan at that time.

----
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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
25919 posts
Wed Dec-07-16 11:00 AM

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5. "I might have misread the dedication"
In response to Reply # 4


          

Big head sitting in front of me.

Maybe better people than me will like it, clearly some do. Just didn't resonate with me in the slightest. Just seemed to point out the folly of religion.

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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lfresh
Member since Jun 18th 2002
92696 posts
Tue Dec-13-16 01:18 AM

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6. "Wasnt just you"
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

My coworker went and saw it
Didn't like it
AND warned me away
Same reasons
And yep not paying money for this
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
86672 posts
Sun Jan-15-17 12:48 PM

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16. "Yeah, you misread it."
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

It said, IIRC, "Dedicated to the Japanese Christians and their pastors." They're mentioned first.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
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GumDrops
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Tue Jan-10-17 11:02 AM

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7. "christian martyr porn"
In response to Reply # 4
Tue Jan-10-17 11:03 AM by GumDrops

  

          

not one mention of the awful shit missionaries often did when 'spreading the word'

just endless pity on the part of garfields character crying about those dying for their faith

my heart did go out to those innocent japanese believers

but a movie this long, with so many scenes of torture and debate (mainly about how christianity just wont survive in a different culture.. specific to japan here, but basically just martyrdom - WE TRIED BUT WE COULDNT DO IT! POOR US!), and not one scene or mention of the crimes of missionaries

not sure i need this film in my life

looks incredible though. and its often beautiful. and i loved the debates. but to me, its a film that only wants to tell you one thing, over and over, and does not want to entertain any alternative views on missionaries.

a lot of ppl love this film. i guess its the ultimate christianity glorification movie.

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
86672 posts
Sat Jan-14-17 11:22 PM

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10. "Call me crazy..."
In response to Reply # 7


  

          


>just endless pity on the part of garfields character crying
>about those dying for their faith

(mainly about how christianity just wont survive in a
>different culture.. specific to japan here, but basically just
>martyrdom - WE TRIED BUT WE COULDNT DO IT! POOR US!)

>its a film that only wants to tell you
>one thing, over and over, and does not want to entertain any
>alternative views on missionaries.

>i guess its the ultimate
>christianity glorification movie.

... but I didn't get *any* of this from this movie at all. In fact, I sort of feared this is what it would be, and I got something waaaay more complex.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
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benny
Member since Jan 15th 2003
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Sat Jan-14-17 06:53 PM

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8. "agreed 100%, I'd rather be hung up over the pit than watch this again"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

way too long and very clunky (those accents, ugh). I got into the last 20-30 minutes but by that point my mind was made up. And I was pretty excited about it going in.

------------------------------
For the record, my teams:
MLB: Mets / Soccer: PSG
NCAA BB: Arizona / NCAA FB: Michigan
NBA: Spurs / NFL: Jets

  

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Deebot
Member since Oct 21st 2004
26762 posts
Sat Jan-14-17 07:40 PM

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9. "Naa. Not good."
In response to Reply # 0


          

Dull, drab, painfully long and sparse for no good reason. Bergman made superior films about crisis of faith and the silence of god in 80-90 mins. I was engaged for maybe...10 minutes of the total runtime.

There were some redeeming qualities and interesting ideas, but not enough.

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
86672 posts
Sat Jan-14-17 11:47 PM

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11. "I saw a different movie than most of you, I guess."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Because this movie didn't praise missionary work or Christian priests with martyr complexes. If anything, everything in the movie decries Garfield's character as callow and posturing, a victim of a self-inflicted messianic complex that can come when you're, y'know, constantly trying to convert.

From describing the villagers as beasts and wretches at the beginning to the Inquisitor, his soldiers, and Neeson constantly exposing Garfield for not being terribly interested in actual good will or godliness at all, it's a journey of him understand that he's not a mouthpiece for the Lord or an important person in any way-- he's just a man. But then, once he learns that he's just a man, he actually *does* find godliness. If that makes sense.

That's a rambling, obviously. Lord knows (heh) that there are billion things to talk about in this movie. But I didn't find this remotely to be pro-missionary or even necessarily pro-Christian. It's pro-human, anti-ego. It praises the sacrifices ordinary people make, because they don't see themselves as important, and it has characters laugh at Rodrigues's preening-- and we understand that, even if the Japanese are violent, they absolutely have many very strong points to make.

It's almost like the man who made Wolf of Wall Street was content to just tell a story, show many sides, and let the viewer decide. Fancy that.

Anyhow. I really, really liked it.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
86672 posts
Sat Jan-14-17 11:54 PM

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12. "Some quotes from a couple of smart critics I like:"
In response to Reply # 11
Sun Jan-15-17 01:48 AM by Frank Longo

  

          

(Spoilers abound, obvi.)

From Sean Burns:

"The adoration of such totems — "this religion of things" — at first troubles Garfield’s Father Rodrigues, who narrates the film via letters home that start out clouded thick with condescension. He refers to the locals as “wretches,” but reserves the lion’s share of his disdain for their drunken guide Kichijiro — a comedic shambles played in fine, Toshiro Mifune-style by Yōsuke Kubozuka. Like most of Rodrigues’ assessments, these are all incredibly short-sighted and he’s going to wind up paying dearly for them before the movie’s done.

Lenny Bruce had a great routine about how missionaries couldn’t help but wind up kinda believing that they’re God, and it’s not for nothing that Scorsese has outfitted the preening Garfield with a gorgeously flowing mane straight out of a Cecil B. DeMille Biblical epic. Rodrigues hilariously sees a painting of Jesus staring back from his reflection in a puddle of water, and if “The Last Temptation of Christ” was about a holy man struggling to accept that he's God, “Silence” is about a holy man struggling to accept that he’s just a man, and a fallen one at that. (In other words, this is a Martin Scorsese picture.)

Rodrigues gets broken down by the best, though. The second half of “Silence” is a series of harrowing, dialectic conversations with a deliciously slithering head inquisitor (Issey Ogata) and his translator (Tadanobu Asano from “Ichi the Killer”) whose very smile feels like an act of violence. What is this arrogance that inspires white men to journey to lands unknown and inflict their beliefs on poor people whose language they can’t even be bothered to learn? A deeply religious film with no interest in winning converts nor preaching to the converted, “Silence” just asks us to sit with some troubling history, provoking and prodding until we arrive at our own conclusions."

From Amy Nicholson:

"Scorsese keeps Rodrigues ignorant, too. When he's captured by the Japanese leaders, all wizened men two and three times his age, they realize that this crusader is a dummy. "We do have a better grasp of your language than you have of ours," snips his interpreter, not hiding his condescension. They've studied his tongue and his church, and concluded that they don't see the need for new ideas like Hell. But Rodrigues is so arrogant in his own beliefs that he hasn't extended them the same courtesy. He has simply written off Buddhism as wrong, dividing the world into Catholics and savages. "Only a Christian would see Buddha simply as man," sighs the interpreter. "You are ignorant, padre."

The more Rodrigues shuts his ears to talk over them, the more rude and insolent he sounds. (Although I can imagine someone watching the same scene and thinking him brave.) "We have brought you the truth!" he shouts, Garfield delivering the line with volume and conviction and zero evidence, the equivalent of an all-caps "BELIEVE ME!" Rodrigues wants his Japanese captors to make him a martyr — there's honor in dying. But they refuse to even let him face off against a proper villain, a cruel tyrant like King Herod or Emperor Nero. Instead, the Inquisitor Inoue (Ogata) who controls Rodrigues's fate is charming and reasonable and exasperated by the priest's stubbornness. Inoue's almost too goofy for the movie — he sticks out his ass when he walks and has the slithering accent of a cartoon snake. He makes Rodrigues seem like a bore who's crashed his cocktail party. Finally, after Rodrigues gives a passionate speech that sounds like it should end in violins and applause, Inoue and the elders giggle and walk away. This moron isn't worth their time.

Whether Silence is worth its daunting 161-minute running time depends on what truths you bring to it. It's possible to watch Silence and see a story about saints martyred by an oppressive government. It's also possible to see a told-you-so parable about imperialists who should have stayed home. I suspect Scorsese would be a little disappointed by either conclusion. But he stays quiet because he wants to challenge the audience to go deeper inside themselves, to separate our own religion (or lack of one) from the faith that guided us to it. No matter what you believe, we've all drawn our conclusion from the same evidence — which is to say, there hasn't been any. And maybe that's enough, just like it has to be for Rodrigues, who spends the film praying to a Jesus who doesn't answer, and then simply listens to his own conscience and makes the best decision he can."

Finally, a lengthy chunk from a really great writer I follow on Letterboxd, who goes by Aleph Null, and whose whole review can be found here: http://letterboxd.com/aleph_null/film/silence/1/

"1. i really understand why people read scorsese as lionising rodrigues & garrpe’s work but what i perceived was intense rage against the system, against the dependency they foster through the limitation of sacramental administrations & the desperation they implicitly encourage in kakure kirishitans for white european mediators to god. even besides their refusal to learn japanese, their unwillingness to learn local religious traditions, their assumptions that any resistance must be purely religious in nature—rodrigues doesn’t flinch one bit when a japanese lady crouch-bows before him, in stark contrast with angels who frantically refuse worship (revelation 19.10, 22.9). i saw so much acknowledgement of how the missionaries dehumanise japanese people, both christian and otherwise—referring to them as ‘creatures’, fetishising their endurance of suffering as innate, relying on their suffering on order to avoid their own; in general, keeping in line with european perceptions of the ‘childlike races’. maybe this is because i’m soakedly familiar with so much traditional christian behaviour and can’t help but read it, even when portrayed positively, as emotionally abusive—but in this case i don’t see any praise of any ‘free-thinking’ western world, nor any ‘gentleness’ associated with the west, any more than an emotionally abusive person could be called gentler than a physically abusive one. endo’s novel was acutely aware of every orientalist microaggression on the part of the priests; i honestly have a hard time reading this film any differently.

b. i strongly object to the idea that inoue’s resistance to christianity is depicted as being purely for religious reasons. he explicitly explains to rodrigues that the ban on christianity is on account of its use as a wedge by competing european traders. i know critics argue that this explanation is sidelined in favour of other narratives, but when rodrigues suggests in response that japan be bound (as in marriage) only to the church, not to any of the european powers, inoue sighs very exaggeratedly—i think the sigh & shot are held for about fifteen seconds—and it feels very, very clear (to me, at least) that scorsese finds this gesture expressly significant. not the villainous sigh of someone out-argued, but the exhausted, exasperated sigh of someone fed up with rodrigues’s naïveté, and priests’ in general. how can you put forth a reasonable position to someone so clueless? how can you try to explain emotional abuse on a national scale to someone who refuses to connect the dots? it’s clear that he couldn’t get this through to ferreira either—ferreira’s almost certainly a fake apostate, and the ideas that japan is a swamp, that kakure kirishitans’ syncretism makes them not true christians, etc., are very clearly not inoue’s. they’re ferreira’s, repackaged and sold back to him, so he can express at least some conviction in his supposedly apostate set of beliefs.

iii. it’s of great importance that the fumie given to rodrigues is not just of christ but of christ crucified. treading on the fumie, for rodrigues, is not only about disrespecting christ—i’d guess not even chiefly. it’s trampling on his own dreams of suffering glory, giving up his idea of christlike loving sacrifice, and with it the crown of martyrdom. this is not unique in christian history; many early christian groups prized martyrdom so highly that members engaged in a kind of bloodlust for their own blood. in one famous story, the source for which i cannot remember right now but i promise i will link when i find it again, a whole gaggle of second-century christians swarmed to a local governor’s office, asked to be executed, and were very upset when he told them it couldn’t be done. but rodrigues clearly does not universalise this bloodlust. he alone is worthy of it. he, unlike garrpe, encourages the kirishitans to trample on the fumie—he’s not as interested in their receipt of any martyrs’ crown, or any internal struggle they might have. the fact that he exhorts them, without hesitation, to trample, but finds it so hard to trample (his own dreams) even when directly told ‘the price for your glory is their suffering’, even as he grows angrier with kichijiro, is not at all commendable."

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
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bwood
Member since Apr 03rd 2006
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Sun Jan-15-17 08:44 AM

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13. "^^^^^^^^^^"
In response to Reply # 11


          

Thank you Russ. Thank you.

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Deebot
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Sun Jan-15-17 12:16 PM

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14. "how many sleeps though?"
In response to Reply # 11


          

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Sun Jan-15-17 12:44 PM

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15. "Haha, none for me. And none for my wife either!"
In response to Reply # 14
Sun Jan-15-17 12:46 PM by Frank Longo

  

          

And she falls asleep in *everything.*

I heard her telling a friend later it was only two hours long. She gave me the Kenan-as-Steve-Harvey look when I told her the actual runtime.

She did, in fairness, think the epilogue was too long. I disagreed, but I can understand why she felt that way. She tends to be a very "gimme the narrative" moviegoer. (She really doesn't like Tarantino, lol.)

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
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Mon Jan-16-17 04:41 PM

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17. "Sounds like you saw the same movie."
In response to Reply # 11
Mon Jan-16-17 04:55 PM by SoulHonky

          

>From describing the villagers as beasts and wretches at the
>beginning to the Inquisitor, his soldiers, and Neeson
>constantly exposing Garfield for not being terribly interested
>in actual good will or godliness at all, it's a journey of him
>understand that he's not a mouthpiece for the Lord or an
>important person in any way-- he's just a man. But then, once
>he learns that he's just a man, he actually *does* find
>godliness. If that makes sense.

Who cares?

That's the honest question that I think people who didn't like the film were struggling to answer. Given everything going on in the film, who cares if the European guy suddenly learns that he's just a man? And is that lesson really so great that I have to watch an hour of Japanese people being tortured to get the European guy there?

Beyond that, I didn't see him finding godliness. His journey ended with him still preaching in secret but now he was also snitching on people smuggling in goods and (presumably) getting them killed. The fact that we were supposed to see Garfield's character still keeping his faith as some kind of victory rang hollow for me.

But just take the movie you saw and imagine the moviegoer didn't buy into the importance of Rodrigues's journey. I don't think it's hard to understand how the movie could seem interminable.


>It's almost like the man who made Wolf of Wall Street was
>content to just tell a story, show many sides, and let the
>viewer decide. Fancy that.

Just because it's not a one-sided telling of the story doesn't mean that he gave every side its due. I think that's the issue people have with it. Just like with Wolf of Wall St., you compliment him for nods to other sides but other people think he ignored very important aspects of the story that might have made the lead character seem worse. (And in the Q&A I was in, Scorsese dismissed the imperialism storyline as something he didn't want to cover too much. Almost a distraction. I think the people who didn't like the film believe that's a very key element to what was going on in Japan at that time and isn't a sidenote that could have been dismissed.)

EDIT: MTV of all places has a good example of this reading of the film: http://www.mtv.com/news/2969662/its-hard-out-here-for-an-imperialist/

----
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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Mon Jan-16-17 07:44 PM

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18. "Some thoughts:"
In response to Reply # 17
Mon Jan-16-17 08:17 PM by Frank Longo

  

          

Again, probably long-winded and repetitive, as I just saw it and am still formulating my thoughts on it the day after.

>Who cares?
>
>That's the honest question that I think people who didn't like
>the film were struggling to answer. Given everything going on
>in the film, who cares if the European guy suddenly learns
>that he's just a man? And is that lesson really so great that
>I have to watch an hour of Japanese people being tortured to
>get the European guy there?

It's not about just the European guy. It's, in fact, highly critical of the European guy and European guys like him. It's not asking for his redemption. I think in 2017, the story of watching guys who insist they're right and they can lead "wretches" and "beasts" and they refuse to hear how condescending and arrogant they are is... pretty astonishingly relevant.

>Beyond that, I didn't see him finding godliness. His journey
>ended with him still preaching in secret but now he was also
>snitching on people smuggling in goods and (presumably)
>getting them killed. The fact that we were supposed to see
>Garfield's character still keeping his faith as some kind of
>victory rang hollow for me.

But that's just it! I'm not convinced he *is* still keeping his faith. I know I wrote above that he learns he's just a man, and that's the lesson he *should* learn... but does he actually learn it? What is his faith at that point? Who knows? The final moment can be read a billion different ways-- I think the moment in which he hears God through relating to another man for the first time doesn't mean he is transformed, nor does it even necessarily mean he's learned his lesson.

>But just take the movie you saw and imagine the moviegoer
>didn't buy into the importance of Rodrigues's journey. I don't
>think it's hard to understand how the movie could seem
>interminable.

I can understand that, sure. I'm just pointing out that the point of Eurocentricity here... is a criticism of that Eurocentricity. And it's unclear if the European lead here even learns a lesson (even if he does come close to realizing he's "just a man" once or twice), because as you point out, his actions at the end leave a lot open-- on both sides of the argument. If people are tired of seeing Eurocentricity used to criticize Eurocentricity, then okay, I can dig that.

>>It's almost like the man who made Wolf of Wall Street was
>>content to just tell a story, show many sides, and let the
>>viewer decide. Fancy that.
>
>Just because it's not a one-sided telling of the story doesn't
>mean that he gave every side its due. I think that's the
>issue people have with it. Just like with Wolf of Wall St.,
>you compliment him for nods to other sides but other people
>think he ignored very important aspects of the story that
>might have made the lead character seem worse. (And in the Q&A
>I was in, Scorsese dismissed the imperialism storyline as
>something he didn't want to cover too much. Almost a
>distraction. I think the people who didn't like the film
>believe that's a very key element to what was going on in
>Japan at that time and isn't a sidenote that could have been
>dismissed.)

I can't speak for Scorsese's Q&A... but the lead character comes off really badly without going into depth regarding the country's history with imperialism. I'm also not convinced it ignores that history-- again, as referenced above, it's alluded to all over the place during the second half of the film. Rodrigues *is* that imperialism, and all of the shouting and preening and refusing to listen tells us just as much, if not more, than a laundry list of the atrocities.

I can't blame anyone who wants a movie about the atrocities of imperialism in Japan during that time. I get it. It's a story that deserves to be told. But I don't think that makes this story any less interesting-- or any less critical of the missionaries' imperialism.

>EDIT: MTV of all places has a good example of this reading of
>the film:
>http://www.mtv.com/news/2969662/its-hard-out-here-for-an-imperialist/

"Or, perhaps: “Sympathy for the White Devil.” That Silence asks its audience to care more about the narcissistic crisis of its Portuguese protagonist than the welfare of the 17th-century Japanese populace is howlingly infuriating and racially insulting."

I almost stopped here, because I certainly don't think it begs for sympathy for Rodrigues, and it *certainly* doesn't do so over the populace, as it goes to great lengths to point out Rodrigues's narcissism.

I read through and found a bunch of other things I disagreed with, including some points missed. In particular: "the fact that we’re never given a reason for the harsh persecution of Christians — such as the threat the foreign religion may pose to national unity — render the inquisitor and his advisers a pack of effete but vicious predators." <--- This is factually inaccurate, as they spell out *that very reason* during the second half of the film! There's a whole speech about it! They discuss it at some length! They come across in that scene as quite reasonable, and certainly far smarter than the stubborn and preening Rodrigues.

Again, I understand that there are perspectives that I will simply never understand due to my race/gender/upbringing/etc, and I'm not about to tell anyone that their desire to see a different type of film about this era is wrong, because that desire *isn't* wrong. I too would be very interested in that movie. I just don't think this movie is any less interesting or complicated or thought-provoking or valid just because it's about what it's about. And I *definitely* vehemently disagree with any review that ignores how critical through truth, from beginning to end, the film is of the missionaries. If a viewer points out that it'd be even more critical with greater context, sure, I can't argue with that-- but I think it's already quite critical as is.

If people object to simply any movie made from the imperialist's perspective, then I can't argue against that-- but writing it from the imperialist's perspective doesn't make him the key figure of empathy, nor does it make the character immune to criticism. In fact, hearing the narration from his perspective, the letters he's writing, allows him to form the noose that the audience (and his inquisitors) will hang him with later.

You found it boring, which I dig-- I've certainly found flicks other people liked deadly boring as well. I just don't agree with some of the criticisms I've seen lobbed at this film.

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The Analyst
Member since Sep 22nd 2007
4621 posts
Tue Jan-17-17 10:24 AM

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19. "Completely agree with this take..."
In response to Reply # 11
Tue Jan-17-17 10:26 AM by The Analyst

  

          

It's not even very subtle about painting the Jesuits as self-aggrandizing, arrogant ideologues who knowingly and stubbornly facilitate pain and suffering under a falsely noble, self-serving sense of “higher purpose.."

A key is to recognize Father Rodrigues’ narration as the *subjective* thoughts of an incredibly narcissistic man who conflates his own struggles with those of Jesus Christ and actively elects not to help people because doing so would wound his pride.

There are multiple times in the film where the missionaries are shit on by Japanese officials for arrogantly not giving a fuck about the native culture, native language, or even the suffering of the native people. And we know this is true because that's how Garfield and Driver got down. They seem to have little interest in actually helping folks outside of holding mass and administering sacraments, which are essentially just ways for them to inflate their own importance and egos.

On top of this criticism, it still manages to tack on a layered, philosophically complex last 30 minutes that still leaves plenty of room for interpretation, debate, discussion. Easily among the best films of this year, and there were many great ones...

----

  

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