because they got the perfect role for them early on.


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"One of the most important things in life is what Judge Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you're

He turned out to be a really mediocre actor....but he was decent in early roles in American Flyers, The Untouchables, and Bull Durham. Since then. Awful. He wasn't stellar in any of those early roles either.

But man, is he awful as of late. I caught "Draft Day" on HBO on a humbug; not as bad as I thought it would be (though it wasn't good at all), but Costner is really, really bad in it.

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He's got too many good performances to be called a bad actor. Just cuz a guy gets big and phones in some unimpressive movie star turns over the course of a decade or so doesn't make the actor as a whole a bad actor.

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After "Tim Cup", his only good performance was in "Open Range." That's it. Now, does that make him a "bad" actor? Probably not. But it's safe to say 1) he's picking really shitty roles and not trying at all or 2) isn't doing a good job in the few good parts he's gotten since 1997.

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Tin Cup. Open Range. Thirteen Days. The Upside of Anger. The Company Men. Again, he was the best part of Man of Steel. And, again, he literally *just* won a Best Actor Emmy *and* a Best Actor Golden Globe for Hatfields & McCoys.

All within the last twenty years. All performances that range from "pretty good" to "quite good."

If I can Cuban B all of the shit and mediocrity that older classic actors shovel out, from Pacino to DeNiro, I can Cuban B the fact that *most* Costner-led films of the last twenty years were garbage. Again, the PROJECTS were bad. Even in bad movies like Message in a Bottle and Mr. Brooks, Costner isn't really bad at all.

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Second, he was very much the worst part of "Thirteen Days," a movie I thoroughly enjoyed.

I will say that I forgot "Company Men," and I haven't seen "Hatfields and McCoys".

And I think DeNiro still does better in bad movies (like, say, "Killer Elite) than Costner, which I have an easier time cutting him some slack for his recent choices.

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people don't know what the fuck they're talking about.

if black or white wasn't so fucking melodramatic, that material might've propelled that performance to an oscar. he was brilliant.

____________________________________________________


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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

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Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

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Like Frank said, dude has put in solid work over the years and yea everyone has a down turn, but don't say that he was mistaken for a good actor cause thats not true.

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Not a bad actor at all. He's just chosen a number of shitty roles, presumably due to paychecks. I wouldn't have him play Hamlet, but he's definitely got talent and has given some terrific performances over the years.

He was the best part of Man of Steel (by a lot), and he did strong work in Hatfields & McCoys (didn't he win the Best Actor Golden Globe & Emmy?).

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>He was the best part of Man of Steel (by a lot),

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So maybe.

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____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

Awful.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson


"One of the most important things in life is what Judge Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you're

... then they are almost certainly good actors.

Maybe their subsequent performances have been disappointments or shitty roles in shitty movies... but untalented actors don't get critical raves. Cinema is by miles the most emotionally honest of mediums-- you can see through the bullshit from far away. Bad actors can get away with theatrics on stage or with just playing themselves on TV (though that's pretty fucking hard too). On screen? Nah. You need talent to conjure up whatever it takes to really connect with an audience.

All of the big-name actors who get shit for being "bad actors" are almost always incredibly good actors. They just have dud roles under their belts.

Now, if this post was about which critically acclaimed performances you think actually *weren't* good performances, subjectively... then I'd have some good names to drop. Til then? I'll be defending the inevitable mentions of Keanu, Cage, and whoever else the easiest punching bags are. Those guys are very good actors.

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I think you are conflating two different skills that people have on camera.

One is great acting and the other skill is being a natural, charismatic person on camera.

I think there are a lot of people who have the second quality who get mistaken for good actors. These people are often accused of playing the same character over and over again (like Kevin Costner) which is a fair assessment in my opinion.

They are also accused of not acting but just being themselves on camera and I think that's not a fair critique. Most people like that aren't like that when the camera is'n't rolling. Instead they have created a character that works, and they use that character over and over again in movies.

I think the biggest thing that made me come up with this distinction is reality tv. We talk trash about them but not everyone can do what the "great" reality tv stars do. They create a persona that people want to watch. There is a skill and talent there, but I wouldn't call it great acting.

The other thing that makes me believe this is seeing how hard it is to actually be on camera. I've seen huge personalities absolutely shutdown when cameras start rolling. I've seen interesting people become completely uninteresting once on camera.

I also think a good director can make a non-actor look good. Lawrence Taylor was great in Any Given Sunday. But we know he shouldn't be playing shakespeare in the park.


All that to say, the camera loves Halle Berry, but she can't act her way out a paper bag.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson


"One of the most important things in life is what Judge Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you're

but she can't act her way out a paper bag.

http://i.imgur.com/vPqCzVU.jpg

"great" reality tv stars

http://i.imgur.com/vPqCzVU.jpg

This expression gets used for *countless* movie stars. And it is, with very few exceptions, never true. Ever.

Silverado. No Way Out. Field of Dreams. JFK. Waterworld. Mr. Brooks. Jack Ryan. 3 Days to Kill.

All of these are different characters. Notably different.

Does he infuse them with his Costnerian charm? Of course. That's literally what he is hired to do. So every role does *feel* like Costner. Obviously. But they're all different. And he plays variations on a theme-- not remotely the same performance, just the same performer.

It's like the people who say Cruise is always Cruise, or Smith is always Smith, or Pitt is always Pitt. Or that Downey Jr. is always Downey Jr. because his characters always talk quickly. They're always movie stars with big recognizable faces, voices, bodies, etc... but I sincerely and strongly object that they play "the same character over and over again."

It also implies that they don't work, which is also just not true. They don't just show up to work and do nothing in prep-- those characters, even when the differences are subtle, are different from one another as a result of a lengthy series of conversations, rehearsals, and deliberate choices. Cage doesn't just show up and act crazy-- he does a fuckload of work and research to determine what flavor of crazy he's going to unleash.

I also disagree that Halle Berry can't act, but as she can get a little hammy, I wouldn't vehemently defend her... I'd say her last two performances alone, in Cloud Atlas and in The Call, show pretty clearly she can act, though.

So, in essence, I disagree with pretty much everything in this post, from its origin to many of the replies to the reply above to which I'm responding, lol. Respectfully, of course.

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>It also implies that they don't work, which is also just not
>true. They don't just show up to work and do nothing in prep--
>those characters, even when the differences are subtle, are
>different from one another as a result of a lengthy series of
>conversations, rehearsals, and deliberate choices. Cage
>doesn't just show up and act crazy-- he does a fuckload of
>work and research to determine what flavor of crazy he's going
>to unleash.

I think actors who create these great characters (and use them repeatedly) are talented, worth their salt and prep for their roles.

I think it takes real talent for vince vaughn to have created that fast talking, likable lout that shows up in so many of his films. His charisma is 1 in a million. I just don't know if he is a great actor.

Their are also actors who have created winning characters they use over and over again AND are good actors.

I am thinking folks like eddie murphy and tom hanks for example.




**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson


"One of the most important things in life is what Judge Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you're

Playing something similar is fine. I object to saying it's the same character. Very rarely is one actor, even the big names, playing only one role every time.

I just really, really, really object to the central premise of this post.

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character, they aren't saying playing literally the same character. They mean variations of a character. Of course there are differences. But the characters have similar traits.


>Playing something similar is fine. I object to saying it's
>the same character. Very rarely is one actor, even the big
>names, playing only one role every time.
>
>I just really, really, really object to the central premise of
>this post.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson


"One of the most important things in life is what Judge Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you're

I dont know about early on but im shocked at the love he is getting now. He still cant act for shit but he made the move to where he gets good roles now, which is being mistaken for "he can act all of a sudden."

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j/k

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>I dont know about early on but im shocked at the love he is
>getting now. He still cant act for shit but he made the move
>to where he gets good roles now, which is being mistaken for
>"he can act all of a sudden."

I thought he was better than Steve carrell

Out of Sight.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson


"One of the most important things in life is what Judge Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you're

... and The Cell and The Wedding Planner came right after it...

... I'd say her career would be in exactly the same place, more or less.

Unless you meant where would it be in terms of your opinion of it.

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The Bennifer overexposure is what de-railed her career. She was a perfectly good actress.

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better actress than singer

i'd rather watch her in a movie than listen to her music
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he's terrible in True DT.

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She had a couple good performances tho

>She had a couple good performances tho

She was good in Closer & Duplicity but both were several years ago

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

That's all I've seen her in & want to see her in so I'll take your word for the rest

that's fine. carry on.

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

it's pretty obvious but...

>that's fine. carry on.

.

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they've had a few highs since but no forget what you(whoever) say they ain't good.

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I can't clap to that holmes.

Omar Sharif passing and me not posting about it? I was on vacation. Dude is a legend and I play his bridge game all the time.

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better alert me next time so shit doesn't get out of hand like this..

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\o/
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stiff ass face that shows no emotion.

November 8th, 2005 The greatest night in the history of GD!

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson


"One of the most important things in life is what Judge Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you're

and I give him the pass over Keanu... and in reality what it is that bothers me is the one note schtick that they both have.. it's always Keanu and it's always cage... I suppose though if that is the argument I'd almost have to consider throwing DeNiro and Walken under the same bus.. I'm not about to do that though... I'll catch enough hate for this as it is.

i mean he's good in his lane and I like him well enough, but has anyone ever considered him a good dramatic actor? I never saw My Own Private Idaho, so maybe in that? I dunno.

and Cage is a very good actor (Raising Arizona, Kiss of Death, Bringing Out The Dead, etc., plus the ones mentioned above) He's just been playing the same hack character for 15 years. But he can definitely act.

___________________

Mar-A-Lago delenda est

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

...i've never heard anyone refer to Tatum or keanu as "great" actors, but they've put in really good, if not great performances....

...i justy came in here to see who y'all mnamed...oh well

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as a public persona
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dude played that role perfectly.

a few flicks later
you realize he was just being himself.

justin timberlake has been pretty bad post alpha dog.
(minus sean parker but that was great writing
and jt just doing his jt ham it up thing)

vin diesel comes to mind too.
saving private ryan, boiler room.
wasnt necessarily bad after that,
just a completely one note actor.

-----

god blessin all the trap niggas.

In that Street Fighter movie, he couldn't even ham it up right.

That's like the first example in this entire post that makes me think the original premise actually has examples that could work.

Well done.

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Just as an example, the scene after he wrecks the Dodge in The Fast and The Furious, where he's just silently raging and shaking was pretty perfect and realistic. Other, more regarded actors might have taken the opportunity to cheese out there.

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