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Subject: "the h8ful eight (QT, 2015)" Previous topic | Next topic
dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
21750 posts
Mon May-11-15 01:46 PM

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"the h8ful eight (QT, 2015)"


  

          

first look x character portraits

http://www.ew.com/gallery/hateful-eight-first-photos
http://www.ew.com/gallery/hateful-eight-character-portraits

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
awful click bait.
May 11th 2015
1
I'm glad he's doing Westerns.
May 11th 2015
2
Conflicted
May 11th 2015
3
Cast looks great. Premise is great. QT usually delivers.
May 11th 2015
4
Both QT and Night Dogg films this year...PTP will be poppin off
May 13th 2015
5
teaser is up.
Aug 12th 2015
6
starring tim roth as christoph waltz.
Aug 12th 2015
7
I thought the same thing.
Aug 12th 2015
8
i was surprised waltz wasn't cast.
Aug 12th 2015
9
      Scheduling conflicts is my guess
Aug 12th 2015
10
      i'm waiting for the reference track to leak.
Aug 12th 2015
11
           I see what you did there...
Aug 12th 2015
12
      he would have been playing the same Django character though
Aug 13th 2015
15
Looks cool. Kurt and SLJ together is exciting, Walton Goggins is highli...
Aug 13th 2015
14
looks corny
Aug 13th 2015
16
basically it's Smoking Aces but now it's a period piece w/ better dialog...
Aug 14th 2015
17
      No complaints here.
Aug 19th 2015
18
DAMN. CO LOOKS PRETTY.
Aug 12th 2015
13
saw it last night in 70mm
Dec 02nd 2015
19
Well this is good /surprising to hear
Dec 02nd 2015
20
Question: Did you like Django?
Dec 05th 2015
22
      loved it
Dec 07th 2015
23
Distasteful, pretentious yet almost amateurish, awful
Dec 05th 2015
21
i thought it was okay...but it's the SAME movie over and over
Dec 21st 2015
25
agree....
Dec 23rd 2015
31
co-sign all of this
Dec 30th 2015
70
I did NOT want to agree with this review
Jan 03rd 2016
88
Film is pretty good...not my favorite of his movies
Dec 21st 2015
24
my dude walt goggins bodied the beat.
Dec 21st 2015
26
I love hearing this, Goggins is fantastic in everything.
Dec 21st 2015
27
he really loves playing a racist huh...
Dec 23rd 2015
29
It had its moments.....
Dec 23rd 2015
28
i feel you on this
Dec 23rd 2015
30
... did QT just try to get political?
Dec 23rd 2015
32
yeah, a lot of the reviews have picked up on that.
Dec 23rd 2015
33
the village voice profile is also a good read.
Dec 23rd 2015
34
QT never makes a statement?
Dec 24th 2015
35
      I don't think either of those gets deeper than revenge fantasy.
Dec 24th 2015
36
      i actually think django had something to do with america's recent
Dec 24th 2015
38
           I disagree with your take.
Dec 24th 2015
39
                I'm trying to think of examples.....
Dec 26th 2015
42
                just being a historical revenge fantasy makes it political
Dec 29th 2015
60
                     It's only political in the loosest possible sense.
Dec 29th 2015
61
      The feminism of death proof
Dec 28th 2015
59
Seeing in 70MM tonight.
Dec 24th 2015
37
Tarantino showed up to my 70mm screening
Dec 25th 2015
40
Excellent film. Seeing it in 70mm made it even better
Dec 25th 2015
41
Just got back from the 70MM showing... (no spoilers)
Dec 26th 2015
43
This shit was on point 4/5
Dec 26th 2015
44
Any focus issues?
Dec 26th 2015
45
None at my screening
Dec 26th 2015
46
solid focus at my screening.
Dec 27th 2015
48
I bought my ticket, let's hope for the best
Dec 28th 2015
52
This is like a Tarantino homage to Tarantino films....
Dec 27th 2015
47
I thought it was better than Django and Bastards.
Dec 27th 2015
49
RE: tarantino breaks no new ground here.
Dec 27th 2015
50
Is it ever alright with someone just to stick with what works?
Dec 27th 2015
51
???
Dec 28th 2015
53
      I laughed at that too.
Dec 28th 2015
54
      He script doctored it, got chewed out by Denzel.
Dec 28th 2015
58
Armond White: hate him or not, this is a great read. (swipe)
Dec 28th 2015
55
This dude is a fuccboi, Jerome would run him a fade
Dec 28th 2015
57
WOW. Nice piece. I agree with about 90% of that
Dec 29th 2015
62
      that was actually one of the smartest things about the film.
Dec 29th 2015
65
           yeah, that's a bunch of bullshit, lol
Dec 30th 2015
78
                i couldn't disagree more.
Dec 30th 2015
79
                     I actually agree with all of this.
Dec 30th 2015
80
                     The 70mm complaint is a surprise to me.
Dec 30th 2015
81
Dumb Question
Dec 28th 2015
56
I saw Interstellar in 70 at BAM, and it was on their small screen
Dec 29th 2015
63
      I SAW IT THERE TOO SMH
Dec 29th 2015
67
Dope flick. I give it 4 say words.
Dec 29th 2015
64
sam jack is >>> in this than he was in pulp fiction btw.
Dec 29th 2015
66
Lance Lawson = plothole? *SPOILER*
Dec 29th 2015
68
RE: Lance Lawson = plothole? *SPOILER*
Dec 29th 2015
69
Have to assume the theatrical is easier to get thru
Dec 30th 2015
71
Just the overture and intermission are gone
Dec 30th 2015
76
      some of the scenes are also different.
Dec 30th 2015
77
Why not just poison the coffee from the beginning?
Dec 30th 2015
72
Man, been mulling this fucking thing over for like 5 days...
Dec 30th 2015
73
So did Minnie like Mexicans or not?
Dec 30th 2015
74
I think she just hated chihuahuas
Dec 30th 2015
75
      AYYYYYEEEEE
Jan 09th 2016
96
I'll sit with it awhile but rather pointless....just ok.
Dec 31st 2015
82
I saw it tonight (tech spoilers)
Jan 01st 2016
83
The last two QT movies I saw in the theater there were cats clapping
Jan 01st 2016
84
only thing giving me pause about disliking this film
Jan 01st 2016
85
QT has absoluetly nothing to say,ever, other than
Jan 02nd 2016
87
smh /lol
Jan 02nd 2016
86
Went to 70mm; projector died an hour in and we were escorted out
Jan 04th 2016
89
I guess i'm easy...i enjoyed it
Jan 05th 2016
90
I liked it but had my issues with it as well.
Jan 05th 2016
91
Joe Gage and O.B were the only characters that didn't say
Jan 05th 2016
92
Loved it.
Jan 07th 2016
93
Spoiler:
Jan 09th 2016
94
I think it's reading too much into it
Jan 09th 2016
95
      Hadn't thought of that.
Jan 10th 2016
98
           ...so we're here already, lol?
Jan 11th 2016
101
                ?
Jan 13th 2016
109
Glenn Kenny, as usual, provides a terrific read on H8Ful Eight.
Jan 10th 2016
97
Holy word soup, Batman!
Jan 10th 2016
99
      I'm not the only one then.
Jan 10th 2016
100
      I could read Glenn write about movies all day.
Jan 11th 2016
103
      The thing I felt while watching the film is this....
Jan 11th 2016
104
           Yeah, the "moral dynamic" was nil to me.
Jan 11th 2016
105
                ^^Hyperbole
Jan 12th 2016
106
                     Yeah, I've never actually seen an Eli Roth movie
Jan 12th 2016
107
                          Forget what you heard.
Jan 13th 2016
110
Having let this sink in for about a week...
Jan 11th 2016
102
Same here, I liked it more than Django and Bastards
Jan 13th 2016
108
I think this is a good movie that easily could have been great.
Nov 27th 2017
111
yeah
Nov 27th 2017
112
This..and cut about 30 minutes out of it...
Jan 10th 2019
113
Throw my whole review of this film in the trash....
Jan 14th 2019
114
It's fucking awful
Jan 14th 2019
115
      it baffles me this got an actors reading like it was something special
Jan 14th 2019
116
      yes and yes....
Jan 15th 2019
117

SoWhat
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Mon May-11-15 01:48 PM

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1. "awful click bait."
In response to Reply # 0
Mon May-11-15 01:49 PM by SoWhat

  

          

anyway, it's a QT movie so i'll see it. i dig all of his work.

fuck you.

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Mon May-11-15 02:24 PM

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2. "I'm glad he's doing Westerns."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

If anyone can inexplicably make that genre popular again, it's him. And I've been praying for the return of Westerns for awhile now.

For beer lovers: http://thebeertravelguide.com
For movie lovers: http://russellhainline.com

  

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handle
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Mon May-11-15 02:41 PM

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3. "Conflicted"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Its QT so I'll see it but...

Kurt Russel looks like he's wearing a costume from the Halloween superstore. Sam Jackon's wearing a uniform from F-Troop with a scarf.

Seems like a COSTUME drama instead of a costume DRAMA.

  

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phenompyrus
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Mon May-11-15 06:04 PM

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4. "Cast looks great. Premise is great. QT usually delivers."
In response to Reply # 0


          

This all equals excitement.

http://twitter.com/phenompyrus

Get Out the Room
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http://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/get-out-the-room/id525657893

  

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Deebot
Member since Oct 21st 2004
26554 posts
Wed May-13-15 09:06 AM

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5. "Both QT and Night Dogg films this year...PTP will be poppin off"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

================================

"Brownsville, never ran never will unless you strapped and I'm not fuck it I gotta peel, P!"

-Sean Price

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
21750 posts
Wed Aug-12-15 04:45 PM

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6. "teaser is up."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

https://youtu.be/gnRbXn4-Yis

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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tingum
Member since Apr 07th 2007
662 posts
Wed Aug-12-15 04:59 PM

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7. "starring tim roth as christoph waltz."
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

-----

god blessin all the trap niggas.

  

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BigWorm
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Wed Aug-12-15 05:40 PM

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8. "I thought the same thing. "
In response to Reply # 7


          

I had to go on imdb to confirm it.

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
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Wed Aug-12-15 06:09 PM

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9. "i was surprised waltz wasn't cast."
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

the script reads like the role was specifically written for him.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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JiggysMyDayJob
Member since Jul 03rd 2002
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Wed Aug-12-15 07:07 PM

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10. "Scheduling conflicts is my guess"
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

Was this filming around the same time as Spectre? But yea Roth is totally doing Waltz,I mean down to the same outfit in Django.

sometimes u gotta leave ur inner nigger in the bank vault. - desus

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
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Wed Aug-12-15 08:06 PM

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11. "i'm waiting for the reference track to leak."
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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ODotSoHot
Member since Apr 02nd 2013
1156 posts
Wed Aug-12-15 09:06 PM

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12. "I see what you did there..."
In response to Reply # 11


  

          

  

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rdhull
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Thu Aug-13-15 11:53 AM

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15. "he would have been playing the same Django character though"
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

>the script reads like the role was specifically written for
>him.

  

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phenompyrus
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Thu Aug-13-15 09:36 AM

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14. "Looks cool. Kurt and SLJ together is exciting, Walton Goggins is highli..."
In response to Reply # 6


          

Simply because he's fantastic in everything he does and I think he's the most talented actor out there right now.

http://twitter.com/phenompyrus

Get Out the Room
http://getouttheroom.podomatic.com
http://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/get-out-the-room/id525657893

  

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Deebot
Member since Oct 21st 2004
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Thu Aug-13-15 03:43 PM

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16. "looks corny"
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

================================

"Brownsville, never ran never will unless you strapped and I'm not fuck it I gotta peel, P!"

-Sean Price

  

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RobOne4
Member since Jun 06th 2003
56410 posts
Fri Aug-14-15 02:35 AM

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17. "basically it's Smoking Aces but now it's a period piece w/ better dialog..."
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

Im in.

http://warehousestories.wordpress.com
^^^WORK BLOG
last updated 9-17-08

November 8th, 2005 The greatest night in the history of GD!

  

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spades
Member since Mar 22nd 2006
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Wed Aug-19-15 02:32 PM

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18. "No complaints here."
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

********************************
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"The world is changed by your example, not by your opinion" - Paulo Coehlo

  

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JRennolds
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Wed Aug-12-15 11:23 PM

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13. "DAMN. CO LOOKS PRETTY."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

COLORADO >>>>> WHERE YOU LIVE

GOMD

  

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theprofessional
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Wed Dec-02-15 07:35 PM

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19. "saw it last night in 70mm"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

i'd rank it somewhere near inglourious on QT's filmography, which is to say pretty close to the top. the 3 hours flies, partly 'cause it's broken up in chapters, partly 'cause it's just wildly entertaining. feels like it was written as a stage play, and i could easily see this going on a theater run with almost no changes to the script, but it works beautifully on film thanks to some crazy good/crazy fun performances and masterful direction. jennifer jason leigh steals the show, and she's gonna get a ton of hardware off this, but sam jackson does all the heavy lifting. time for america to stop taking this man for granted and give him his due as one of the greats.

the crowd i saw it with was mostly white, and hearing them react to the racist dialogue was almost a show in itself. dude next to me was like "jesus!" or "oh, god" at nearly every instance of the N-word, and i couldn't tell if it was 'cause he was sitting next to me and felt obligated to express some sort of disapproval. though he did laugh a little too hard at one of the racist jokes, so i was like stop acting like this ain't what your thanksgiving sounded like.

really though, QT's obsession with the N-word doesn't bother me 'cause, to be fair, it is probably the most charged word in the english language, carrying the most history, importance, nuance, etc., at least to americans. and the way he weaves it through his dialogue-- finding the subtle meaning in it even among the frivolity-- is fairly genius. the way characters use it, the context they use it in, immediately gives you a full page of backstory on them without even getting into it. the way daisy uses it in the very beginning, i immediately have a pretty good idea who she is and why she's chained to ruth. the way goggins and dern's characters use it when conversing, you know where they're from and what they're about. a ton of subtext in the frivolity.

anyway, you're gonna see this anyway (see it in 70mm if you can), so i'm not saying this to sell you. but it's gonna be a national tragedy the day QT stops making movies. the filmography he's building is putting him into some really rarefied air, not just among filmmakers but also among writers, period.

"i smack clowns with nouns, punch herbs with verbs..."

  

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xangeluvr
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Wed Dec-02-15 08:41 PM

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20. "Well this is good /surprising to hear "
In response to Reply # 19


  

          

For me anyway. The trailers had me real skeptical and I'm a big QT fan.

GamerTag and PSN: PokeEmAll

  

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mrshow
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22. "Question: Did you like Django?"
In response to Reply # 19


          

  

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theprofessional
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Mon Dec-07-15 07:51 PM

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23. "loved it"
In response to Reply # 22


  

          

my review of django is in the archives:
http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=23&topic_id=107141&mesg_id=107141&listing_type=search#107205

"i smack clowns with nouns, punch herbs with verbs..."

  

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
25919 posts
Sat Dec-05-15 01:49 AM

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21. "Distasteful, pretentious yet almost amateurish, awful"
In response to Reply # 0


          

I know, I know. I'll be in the minority on this one but I thought this movie was terrible.

The director of Funny Games said he made the film to be a test; if you could keep watching, something was wrong with you.

I feel like Hateful Eight is the same thing. If it was designed to make a statement on everything wrong with America, it does a good job. But instead, it's just a pretentious silly dark comedy b-movie that really is pretty much everything wrong with America.

It's almost like Tarantino was trolling people.
Think he's pretentious? Here's a long overture at the beginning of a three hour film.
Don't like his use on the N-word? I think every tenth word is an n-bomb.
Don't like when he appears in his films? Well, he'll pop up as the narrator for a second.
Don't like the b-movie, over-the-top violence for laughs and hammily delivered lines? Well, that's basically all we've got to offer!

Sam Jackson and Jennifer Jason Leigh carry the film. I thought Kurt Russell was tough to watch and Demian Bechir was a painfully stereotypical Mexican character which really made me wonder why the hell he took the role. A good amount of the laughs were from people delivering their lines in a ham-fisted way.

The first half is pretty damn boring but it ends strong. The second half starts with what I hoped would be the beginning of a burst of creativity but then, no, it just devolves into b-movie violence and more n-bombs with Sam Jackson yelling something funny now and then.

The score was great although a Jack White song appears midway through Act 1 which felt out of place.

Tarantino said that westerns always reflect the time they're made in but I really don't believe that he gets just how his film actually reflects contemporary times. The fact that he thinks the movie talks about institutional racism in some way is mind boggling.

But yeah, if you like the n-word, over-the-top violence for giggles, and wasting three hours of your life, The Hateful Eight's for you.

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
49295 posts
Mon Dec-21-15 08:38 AM

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25. "i thought it was okay...but it's the SAME movie over and over"
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

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Sofian_Hadi
Member since Jan 03rd 2003
2825 posts
Wed Dec-23-15 04:05 PM

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31. "agree...."
In response to Reply # 21


          

Though i think the Mexican character was purposefully over the top, same as the British guy, using an exagerated accent that leveled off after the reveal and during the flash back

Besides Goggins and Jennifer Jason Leigh, who both knocked it out of the park, this movie was waaaaay too long and not memorable. Im guessing Tarantino was jerking off while he inserted the N word into every sentence of dialogue. The "in historical context" thing is getting old. Wasnt needed in this movie.

---------------------------------------

"The world is before you and you need not take it or leave it as it was when you came in." - James Baldwin

  

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ErnestLee
Member since Mar 03rd 2003
28498 posts
Wed Dec-30-15 08:50 AM

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70. "co-sign all of this"
In response to Reply # 21


  

          


>
>It's almost like Tarantino was trolling people.
>Think he's pretentious? Here's a long overture at the
>beginning of a three hour film.
>Don't like his use on the N-word? I think every tenth word is
>an n-bomb.
>Don't like when he appears in his films? Well, he'll pop up as
>the narrator for a second.
>Don't like the b-movie, over-the-top violence for laughs and
>hammily delivered lines? Well, that's basically all we've got
>to offer!
>

---------------------------------------------------------

  

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Mgmt
Member since Feb 17th 2005
21087 posts
Sun Jan-03-16 11:35 AM

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88. "I did NOT want to agree with this review"
In response to Reply # 21
Sun Jan-03-16 11:36 AM by Mgmt

  

          

but after seeing the film

here I am in this line.

This movie was a mistake. Great score though, even though it was a Morricone leftover (how crazy is that?).

  

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gumz
Member since Jan 09th 2005
20093 posts
Mon Dec-21-15 07:09 AM

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24. "Film is pretty good...not my favorite of his movies"
In response to Reply # 0
Mon Dec-21-15 07:11 AM by gumz

  

          

I like how it all took place in just a few locations and it had a theater (stage) feel to it like Reservoir Dogs did. I may watch it again and appreciate it way more, like I did Death Proof...but for now it's my least favorite of his films. For a movie that relied heavily on dialogue it lacked some of that flair he usually throws in his scripts.

The movie leaked pretty early by today's standards. Considered he almost didn't make it when the script leaked I'm curious what his reaction will be to this.

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dula dibiasi
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26. "my dude walt goggins bodied the beat."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

dope performances all around but he was a standout.

ennio still a beast.

qt did it again. another winner.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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phenompyrus
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27. "I love hearing this, Goggins is fantastic in everything."
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http://twitter.com/phenompyrus

Get Out the Room
http://getouttheroom.podomatic.com
http://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/get-out-the-room/id525657893

  

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gumz
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29. "he really loves playing a racist huh..."
In response to Reply # 26


  

          

all the roles i can think of off top except his transgender role in SOA were him playing a straight up racist...Shield, Justified, Django, this...dude must have a clause in his contract

http://www.youtube.com/user/gumzization
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KnowOne
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28. "It had its moments....."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

but just felt like something was missing. It was okay but I couldnt recommend it. Goggins killed it as always though.

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gumz
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30. "i feel you on this"
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

can't put my finger on it but there was a certain charm to QT movies that I didn't get out of this one. there were some highlights though for sure.

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Frank Longo
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32. "... did QT just try to get political?"
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Dec-23-15 05:38 PM by Frank Longo

  

          

The N-word stuff, and the treatment of JJL as a punching bag for the audience to cheer, definitely feels like QT thumbing his nose at the audience. It also felt like, at times, for maybe the first time in his whole fucking career, he was actually trying to make a Statement. Which is at once refreshing, because he never does it, and odd, because it doesn't *really* work, since, y'know, he never does it.

So it's hard to figure out. Is he being nasty just to be nasty... or is the reading of the Lincoln letter at the end-- one of the most nakedly and unironic stabs at genuine emotion in his entire body of work-- a political jab at the American ideal? Is all of the violence toward JJL because Tarantino thinks punching the bitch is funny, or is it because he thinks that hatred of women outweighs men's racial biases? (Certainly audiences love watching JJL get punched and watching her scream in pain all of the time, which is tremendously off-putting.) Is he doing all of these things at once, and, if so, which ones is he doing intentionally?

You get the usual from QT, of course. Brilliant performances. Gorgeous RR cinematography and lush Morricone music-- maybe the best shot and scored film in QT's entire filmography. So that's definitely something. There's no ignoring that.

And I'm never one to give QT credit for some shit that isn't there, btw. I've been mocking from the early days of PTP the folks who wax philosophical on all of the deep meanings behind Death Proof and QT's other genre recreations. QT's never been about that. I suspect that's part of what's made him so popular.

Yet he's definitely trying... something here. It's not always successful. It's exciting some times, boring other times. Some characters rule, other characters are definitely undercooked. It's unrepentantly nasty, which isn't really my thing when it comes to movies. But for the first time maybe ever in his career, I left the theater thinking I'd just watch QT attempt to do something political. Which is... interesting, needless to say.

I still don't really know how much I "enjoyed" the film. I'll have to think about it some more. I'm not even convinced I believe the stuff I wrote in the second paragraph above. Maybe it's just because he ditched some of his usual thick layers of ironic detachment here. I don't know. I'll let it marinate. These are my initial thoughts.

(Also, thanks to QT for not showing up like a fucking idiot as an actor. Blissfully, he only appears via narration.)

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dula dibiasi
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33. "yeah, a lot of the reviews have picked up on that."
In response to Reply # 32


  

          

http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/12/16/the-hateful-eight-review

Westerns weren't always just shoot 'em-ups, as a film buff like Tarantino obviously knows. The westerns of the 1950s-'70s smuggled in political messages, too, and The Hateful Eight embraces that tradition. Tarantino's film is very much about race relations in America, the story's post-Civil War setting actually allowing for an exploration of some very contemporary issues... This is arguably Tarantino's most nuanced and adult tale yet.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/film/hateful-eight/review/

The fact that the film is set at an undetermined point shortly after the end of the American Civil War is obviously no accident. Minnie’s Haberdashery becomes America writ small, fraught with all the hideous, baked-in racial tension that lingers in the United States to this day. (At one point, the room is even divided into rival North and South areas.)

And while its eight inhabitants might be individually despicable, they’re also a product of their shared history, and their fates are all but predetermined as soon as they walk through the Haberdashery’s door. William Faulkner wrote in Requiem for a Nun: “The past is never dead. It’s not even past.” The past has these people between its teeth.

http://screencrush.com/the-hateful-eight-review/

Those willing to put in the time will find a movie that is both beautiful and hideous, funny and shocking, and even thoughtful on occasion; once it’s fully occupied, Minnie’s Haberdashery becomes something of a microcosm of America, one that, in Tarantino’s jaundiced view, is a melting pot where everyone gets burned. Those in power can’t be trusted, and neither can the people they’re protecting. You can take away people’s guns, but they’ll always find more.

http://www.torontosun.com/2015/12/23/the-hateful-eight-review-tarantinos-latest-a-bloody-good-time

With his love of genre, violence, salty language and often despicable characters whom we learn to appreciate from a safe distance, Quentin Tarantino courts controversy along with loathing, love and respect.

So it is that The Hateful Eight — a western set in the Rocky Mountains years after the U.S. Civil War — has become a lightning rod for that controversy. Despite its 19th century period story, Tarantino deliberately was writing and directing a picture about 21st century racial violence and police brutality.

Even if the film itself does not spell out its metaphor — because the filmmaker is an artist and an auteur, not a demagogue — Tarantino and his muse and star actor Samuel L. Jackson have spelled out its meaning in public statements. A multitude of American policemen have vowed to boycott the film, primarily for what Tarantino has said about his motives.

The Hateful Eight is a lesser work than his masterpiece Pulp Fiction, or his savage WWII fantasy Inglourious Basterds or his powerful slave-western Django Unchained. It does have its own glory, however, and a whole posse of incredible characters, few of them heroic or even clean and respectable. Layer in Tarantino’s sparkling dialogue, explode the joint with a lot of swearing and ’N’ bombs and The Hateful Eight is a crackling yarn with a deep well of meaning and socio-political commentary.

http://www.avclub.com/review/quentin-tarantino-gets-theatrical-70mm-western-hat-229377?

Stubbornly theatrical, Quentin Tarantino’s three-hour snowed-in Western The Hateful Eight is a difficult movie by a director who’s not known for making them. Slow in the early going, it withholds almost all overt action until just before the intermission, at which point it explodes into the meanest, most gruesome and nihilistic violence of Tarantino’s career, only to conclude on a disquieting note of hope. Shot in 70mm, but largely set in one room, this is the writer-director’s take on the betrayed promise of America: a perverse vision of sadistic men comforted by false causes. The American ideal was only ever a lie, says The Hateful Eight, but in the end, when the floorboards are slicked with blood and brain matter, and the fatally wounded have enacted a ritualistic parody of justice, it looks toward that same ideal with the hope that one day, someone will be suckered by it hard enough to make it come true. Who could have predicted that Quentin Tarantino, director of Reservoir Dogs and Pulp Fiction, would eventually turn into a political filmmaker?

The Hateful Eight stakes territory previously worked by Sam Peckinpah and the more politically conscious of the spaghetti Westerns, but it owes just as much to John Carpenter’s The Thing, with which it shares a star, a composer, and a whole lot more. The claustrophobic set-up—seven bad men and a feral woman, trapped in a Wyoming roadhouse—brings out the worst in an ugly bunch, and it comes out at first in slurs and pointed fingers, and then in sprays of bloody vomit and gunshots that blow heads and nutsacks clean off. But even if a lot of it is played for laughs, this is still the first Tarantino movie that might be called a drama...

Though he’s characterized as a fetishist who makes movie-movies, most of Tarantino’s reference points and influences (blaxploitation films, revisionist Westerns, New Wave-era Jean-Luc Godard movies, etc.) are very political; given the lengths he’s gone to imitate their sense of cool, perhaps it was inevitable that he’d develop a political conscience. Here, there is talk of violence in law enforcement, and the only black man among the eight speaks at length about being seen as a threat. Tarantino still can’t resist a signifying reference (in The Hateful Eight, characters are named after underrated directors, lesser B-movie starlets, and John Ford bit players), but they’re no longer the main draw. It used to be that when an American director had something to say about fundamental values, they went and made a Western, and making Westerns is just about all Tarantino has been doing as of late...

At the center of this long, deliberate movie sits the complex figure of Warren, the bounty hunter who was once himself a wanted man, and the image of Lincoln, whose death at the hands of John Wilkes Booth is spoken of as though it were Biblical. For the eight, snowed in with their prejudices and their paranoia and their itchy trigger fingers, venerating Honest Abe expresses a belief in something better than themselves, regardless of which side of the Civil War they fought on. (Heck, even Birth Of A Nation worshipped Lincoln.) And in a finale reminiscent of Pulp Fiction’s enigmatic endpoint, when the ugly American past and present they’ve given voice to has degraded and de-evolved into a caveman instinct of violence and retribution, the remaining characters gather to marvel at what a beautiful idea America could be—one of the few really moving scenes in Tarantino’s highly stylized body of work.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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dula dibiasi
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34. "the village voice profile is also a good read."
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

http://www.villagevoice.com/film/quentin-tarantino-is-about-to-drop-his-most-unconventional-film-in-decades-8035303

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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denny
Member since Apr 11th 2008
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35. "QT never makes a statement?"
In response to Reply # 32


          

I haven't seen hateful 8 but Inglorious and Django are full of statements. I can see how his earlier films might be characterized as somewhat relativist or morally vacuous....but I think it's pretty clear that he's moved on from that.

  

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Frank Longo
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36. "I don't think either of those gets deeper than revenge fantasy."
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Any statements that might be made in those are just the same statements made in the films to which he's paying homage. They're entertainment, first and foremost. Nothing wrong with that, btw. But this movie actually feels like a genuine political statement. Still not entirely in love with the execution, but I'm at least impressed that he's clearly trying to go for something deeper than genre pleasure and/or revenge fantasy thrills.

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theprofessional
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38. "i actually think django had something to do with america's recent"
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rejection of the confederate flag. it was a massive blockbuster and a best picture nominee (meaning a lot of people saw it), and it was the first film i can think of to unapologetically portray the antebellum south for the morally repulsive institution that it was. everyone agrees that slavery is wrong, but to see the slave-owning south presented for the first time like nazi super-villains to a society that had mostly gotten "gone with the wind" type sympathetic portrayals, if not outright "heroic in defeat" worship-- it had to be jarring for a lot of people.

so to go from that notion that QT planted in our collective conscience to what happened in charleston, suddenly something about this one was different and we knew almost immediately what needed to be done-- in a way we couldn't agree on for the previous 150 years. i said at the time that django was one of the most incredible political statements ever put on film. the dots from that to our recent nationwide pang of conscience-- where statues, memorials, and symbols that have stood for a century or more are now being taken down-- aren't difficult to connect.

"i smack clowns with nouns, punch herbs with verbs..."

  

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Frank Longo
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39. "I disagree with your take."
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The depth of it, anyhow. It's a very entertaining movie, stylishly made and well-acted. Excellent revenge fantasy exploitation genre play. That's my personal take. I don't see it as deeply political.

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denny
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42. "I'm trying to think of examples....."
In response to Reply # 39
Sat Dec-26-15 12:56 AM by denny

          

Y'know when Django shoots Leo Dicaprio's sister? I thought that was a political statement. Also hilarious cause she literally gets blown into another room. It conveyed that it was not only the people who perpetrated or actively participated in the slave trade that are morally responsible....but also those that benefitted from it. She was just as morally culpable as the guy holding the whip.

  

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theprofessional
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60. "just being a historical revenge fantasy makes it political"
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he's pointing to a group of people in history who he feels were wronged and who deserve revenge. then he's writing them their revenge. just the act of picking which group is which is a political statement. he could've written a historical revenge fantasy where a captured confederate soldier escapes and heroically takes out half the union army. he didn't write that movie because that would've been a political statement he doesn't agree with.

not to mention all the other things you missed like, as denny pointed out, blasting scarlett o'hara. you seriously think he wrote that just for juvenile fun? how can you not see something like that as a political statement?

"i smack clowns with nouns, punch herbs with verbs..."

  

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Frank Longo
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61. "It's only political in the loosest possible sense."
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This film is far more political, far more contemporary in its attempted message.

There's some loosely political stuff in Django tied to the nature of who he chose as his protagonist, but I don't see it as political filmmaking. And yes, I think the black man blasting the white girl *is* more for fun than for a deep political statement. In this revenge fantasy genre, the black man killing whitey is fun to see. That's why the deaths of the white people are staged in a comedic over-the-top style, complete with witty action-movie punchlines. The death of Miss Laura in *particular* is insanely goofy.

There's not much goofy about The Hateful Eight. It's nasty. Its points aren't underscored with one-liners, and its deaths, for the most part, are not comedically staged. Hence why I think the politics are far more deliberate in intention here.

You are entitled to your read, of course, which I'm familiar with, from the original Django post and this one. I just happen to disagree with what you're saying. Which is fine.

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Lil Rabies
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59. "The feminism of death proof "
In response to Reply # 35


  

          

is scarier than zombies to some of y'all hurt niggers. Sheesh...statement.

Seen enough to eye you/
But I've seen too much to try you

  

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LeroyBumpkin
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37. "Seeing in 70MM tonight."
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seandammit
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40. "Tarantino showed up to my 70mm screening "
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Was hoping for a Q&A, but he only spoke a bit at the beginning. He did sit there in the third row the whole time, including through the intermission.

As far as the film goes, I'd definitely rate it in the upper half of his films. Great actors, cool shots, great dialogue...I mean, it's exactly what you would expect of QT.

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mrhood75
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Fri Dec-25-15 11:59 PM

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41. "Excellent film. Seeing it in 70mm made it even better"
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No complaints at all.

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rhymesandammo
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Sat Dec-26-15 01:52 AM

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43. "Just got back from the 70MM showing... (no spoilers)"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I liked it a lot. Looks really stunning in Ultra Panavision. Worth going to the movies for that alone, especially if you are younger than 50 and never had the opportunity to see a film shot with this lens and presented in this format. Also really cool to leave the theatre with a program book, they went all out for this and crafted a genuine event. I may still need to marinate on it, but out of the three period films he's done so far, this one might have worked the best for me or at least felt the most "Quentin" and the least Hollywood. The film is filled with small moments and little details that harken back to his earlier work. The score worked perfectly and was a nice departure from QT's usual mix tape approach. As far as the actors are concerned, Samuel L. Jackson & Jennifer Jason Leigh stole damn near every scene they were in. Hopefully they both get nominations come award season.

The political statements in the film were very overt but appreciated nonetheless. While Django was more of a straight-up revenge flick set during slavery, The Hateful Eight is Tarantino taking a magnifying glass to race relations and racism in post-Civil War America and showing how little things have changed in 150 years. Tarantino's flippant use of "the n word" in his scripts has never turned me off from enjoying his films but they do rub me the wrong way at times depending on the context. This film, despite even giving Django Unchained a run for it's money in that department, is justified in it's choice of language. As the original poster pointed out: "really though, QT's obsession with the N-word doesn't bother me 'cause, to be fair, it is probably the most charged word in the english language, carrying the most history, importance, nuance, etc., at least to americans. and the way he weaves it through his dialogue-- finding the subtle meaning in it even among the frivolity-- is fairly genius. the way characters use it, the context they use it in, immediately gives you a full page of backstory on them without even getting into it.".

If I had to rank them, I guess The Hateful Eight would be somewhere in the middle of his filmography for me:

1. Kill Bill
2. Pulp Fiction
3. Jackie Brown
4. The Hateful Eight
5. Django Unchained
6. Reservoir Dogs
7. Death Proof
8. Inglorious Basterds

Again, just for the presentation, it's worth going to see before the 70MM engagement is finished. See this film as intended, it's gorgeously detailed and no frame is wasted. Quentin must have had a blast shooting it.

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Brother Rabbit
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Sat Dec-26-15 11:42 AM

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44. "This shit was on point 4/5"
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Sat Dec-26-15 11:43 AM by Brother Rabbit

  

          

*Saw the 70mm "Roadshow" version, which was gorgeous.

______________________________

They're bureaucrats! I don't respect them.(c)Rick Sanchez

  

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handle
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45. "Any focus issues?"
In response to Reply # 44


          

I've been seeing reports that the 70MM lens they sent out are prone to warping when hot - so about 2 hours in the LAMCA showing had the left 1/3 of the screen go soft.

If it can happen in LA then it could happen anywhere.

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Brother Rabbit
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46. "None at my screening"
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______________________________

They're bureaucrats! I don't respect them.(c)Rick Sanchez

  

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LeroyBumpkin
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48. "solid focus at my screening."
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@dseals | @digife
https://digife.com

  

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handle
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52. "I bought my ticket, let's hope for the best"
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Seeing it in La Jolla on Friday.

I bought seats closer than I normally would because the image is going to be small in this theater.

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rorschach
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Sun Dec-27-15 11:52 AM

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47. "This is like a Tarantino homage to Tarantino films...."
In response to Reply # 0
Sun Dec-27-15 11:58 AM by rorschach

  

          

If you put Django, Kill Bill, and maybe Reservoir Dogs in a blender you'd get this.

The Good:
Ennio Morricone's score....I'm so glad the score's Oscar-eligible. He may not have to settle for that Honorary Oscar after all.
Sam Jackson, Walton Goggins, and Jennifer Jason Leigh: all Oscar-worthy IMHO. I know Sam Jack's iconic role is Pulp Fiction but....he's every bit as good here as he was there.
The cinematography: Best exterior shots in any QT film. There's been a significant jump in the cinematography since Inglorious and I'm glad the camera work continues to get better.
The monologue before Intermission: Wow

The Not So Good:
There's a big plothole (lapse of logic) that gets exposed in the second half of the film when a certain twist/reveal happens.
There's a death at the end that didn't have the effect that it was supposed to have and it came off slightly disturbing as a result.
I don't think some of the more grindhouse elements worked here. They weren't necessary here.

If you're seeing the 70mm version, you're going to have to be 'that guy' in regards to making sure you get the best viewing experience. The screening I went to had soft focus issues here and there. I wish someone would've told the staff to sharpen the focus during intermission. Also, depending on the theater, you probably will end up watching it on a regular screen (because Star Wars) but still getting charged for the upgrade (thanks AMC Southpoint).

Overall, this is a midrange QT film. It's not seeing Pulp or Kill Bill but it's far better than Death Proof.

  

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aesop socks
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49. "I thought it was better than Django and Bastards. "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I had my doubts after seeing the trailer but he came through. Watching the roadshow version made it a big experience. The program, the intermission the thing at the beginning that I forgot the name of. I came in already know the word nigger would be used in every other sentence, this guy behind my was enjoying that way too much. Laughing hella loud during some uncomfortable parts. So during the intermission I take a look at the guy and it was brotha in his sixties.

  

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maternalbliss
Member since Jul 05th 2005
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50. "RE: tarantino breaks no new ground here."
In response to Reply # 0


          

This is an half ass effort. It was ok and i never got bored with it.
Grade B-

Best/Favorite films written or directed by Tarantino

Kill Bill Vol. 1
Grade A+

Django Unchained
Grade A+

Jackie Brown
Grade A

Kill Bill Vol. 2
Grade A-

Crimson Tide and Reservoir Dogs both get an B+

  

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aesop socks
Member since Sep 18th 2007
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51. "Is it ever alright with someone just to stick with what works?"
In response to Reply # 50


  

          

Take Nas for example, never really looked back after dropping Illmatic he gets criticized all the time for it.

  

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Ceej
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53. "???"
In response to Reply # 50


  

          


>Crimson Tide

http://i.imgur.com/vPqCzVU.jpg

  

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Frank Longo
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54. "I laughed at that too."
In response to Reply # 53


  

          

For beer lovers: http://thebeertravelguide.com
For movie lovers: http://russellhainline.com

  

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
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58. "He script doctored it, got chewed out by Denzel."
In response to Reply # 53


          

The Silver Surfer argument was all Tarantino. But word is that Denzel took him to task for using the N-word so much. Not sure if that's true or urban legend.

But I think he only reworked some dialogue so, yeah, he shouldn't get credit for it.

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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Frank Longo
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55. "Armond White: hate him or not, this is a great read. (swipe)"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/428923/hateful-eights-racial-insults?target=author&tid=1152026

Tarantino's Macro-Aggressions

by ARMOND WHITE December 23, 2015 4:00 AM

The Hateful Eight burlesques American race relations.

Quentin Tarantino pries open American ugliness in The Hateful Eight. His Civil War/Agatha Christie/John Ford omnibus western uses racial epithets with unbounded insensitivity. The film’s macro-aggressions surpass anything in movie history (outcussing even QT’s own vulgar Django Unchained). In a too-hip-for-the-room way, The Hateful Eight vents the bottled-up venom that is the reality behind political correctness. Not a happy thing.

As always, QT is concerned only with expressing his antisocial impulse. The Hateful Eight doesn’t aim for historical realism, just the movie-based, juvenile fantasies of brash frat boys and oily hipsters. QT casts alter-ego Samuel L. Jackson as Major Marquis Warren, a black Civil War veteran turned bounty hunter who commandeers a group of white ne’er-do-wells who are snowbound at a Wyoming stagecoach stop, Minnie’s Haberdashery. Warren is in the socially inferior but morally superior position of rectifying and scaring his honky entourage: fellow bounty hunter John Ruth (Kurt Russell), prisoner Daisy (Jennifer Jason Leigh), and henchmen Jody (Channing Tatum), Joe Gage (Michael Madsen), and Bob (Demian Bichir), plus General Smithers (Bruce Dern) and Sheriff Mannix (Walton Goggins). Warren sets things straight like the black stud heroes from the Seventies blaxploitation films that the teenage Tarantino suckled on. But Warren’s revenge isn’t the film’s point; he simply ignites QT’s pandemonium. After an intermission, QT himself steps in as voice-over narrator to claim — and further entangle — the mass-murder plot.

The Hateful Eight is not a national microcosm such as John Ford explored in the 1939 Stagecoach, where the classes and sexes clashed. (William Inge’s 1956 Bus Stop used the same premise.) Tarantino has no interest in American political or psychological history. His stand-in, SamJack, serves the same function here as when playing the pimp-emcee of Spike Lee’s cultural burlesque Chi-Raq. Like Lee, Tarantino is basically unserious; both filmmakers show antipathy to human suffering, evoking past or current experience simply to display personal impudence. Titled after cut-rate Italian spaghetti westerns, The Hateful Eight dramatizes another of QT’s references to social chaos, specifically, the 2012 movie-theater massacre in Aurora, Colo.

That’s not a stretch; the two-part Kill Bill was QT’s proto–Abu Ghraib satire. (As Jean-Luc Godard corroborated in an interview, no thinking person can deny the concurrence of those QT films with that incident of nasty American GI folly.) Politically unschooled, Tarantino links movie genres to mundane catastrophe; his entire output solders unconscionable cruelty to American moviegoers’ heartless sense of entitlement. He indulges the thrill of destruction that used to be the delectation ascribed to yahoos but, after the sea-change of his Pulp Fiction, is now defended by “intellectuals.”

No wonder QT launched his publicity campaign for The Hateful Eight by taking an unprecedented position favoring the current anti-police protests. This dubious act of “solidarity” with the Black Lives Matter crusade showed how truly out of touch Tarantino is with African-American lives. His films demonstrate that he relates to black culture only through fanboy fantasy. Despite his specious protesting, The Hateful Eight accepts racial hostility as endemic to American culture. That’s why, having relished Shaft, Hammer, and Slaughter and been aroused by Pam Grier’s films, Tarantino feels he has a right to manipulate a black protagonist and the dynamics of race relations in The Hateful Eight – as if he himself were a black man with a cause. This is an extension of what Tarantino’s producer-distributor, Harvey Weinstein, called “The Obama Effect.”

In response to Obama-era sanctimony, and feeling safe from any accusations of racism, Tarantino acts as if he is justified in ignoring public decorum and any societal misgivings in his outpouring of America’s #1 racial epithet. He puts unreserved hostility in his white characters’ mouths and — with the encouragement of an Academy Award for the scabrous Django Unchained — challenges anyone to resent it. (Major Warren’s adjustment to the N-word distorts its usage by today’s multiculti generation.) In lieu of dramatic excitement, The Hateful Eight derides Obama-era politesse for little stabs of bigoted satisfaction. QT liberates his white characters (and his audiences) from well-mannered reticence.

The Hateful Eight indulges the most heinous racist fantasies, climaxing in SamJack’s parody of Abraham Lincoln’s largesse, plus a flashback of black phallic domination addressed to Dern’s Confederate general. This scene’s pretense of emasculating two generations of white manliness is a private joke derived from blaxploitation’s get-whitey convention. But it seems that Tarantino himself has probably not quite figured it out. So, instead of writing characters with emotional complexity, he mangles narrative structure while twisting the American vernacular.

Language in The Hateful Eight overwhelms the story. It obliterates the law-and-order concern that is basic to the western while trivializing the film’s race-relations subtext. (The scene of a white woman’s lynching doesn’t exactly pay reparations.) Tarantino’s wigger use of “nigger” goes back to pre–Civil-Rights-era defamation — not hip-hop’s fraternal term “nigga,” which linguists might describe as infra dig. Given our current national dialogue on race (ha!), QT’s linguistic offenses are meant to appease both guilt-ridden whites and resentful blacks. This affront is likely to suit the aberrant feelings of outrage that fuel the recent puerile protests. (“See, this proves white cops are racists,” the anarchists will chime. But are they ticket-buyers?)

The etymology of the word “nigger” and its faddish evolution are not explained by The Hateful Eight’s fiction. Instead, Tarantino’s insensitive goof abuses political sophistication; his liberalism dispenses with caution and opts for shamelessness. He is clearly indifferent to the humanism exhibited in the remarkable 1967 western Hombre, where director Martin Ritt and two of Hollywood’s most talented screenwriters, Irving Ravetch and Harriet Frank Jr., sought to clarify Civil-Rights-era complexities. As Hombre’s half–Native American outlaw, Paul Newman faced down feckless settlers and brazen villains and was instructed, “You will find that white people stick together.” It was a revelatory moment for liberal Hollywood — never to be repeated.

Today, QT indulges the “post-racial” delusions of the Obama era, which sanction his up-front, unapologetic hostility, freely unleashing the country’s hidden disgust. After the Motion Picture Academy’s endorsement of Django Unchained, Tarantino’s racist invective is likely to have a greater effect than any of the quasi-political games played in films like Straight Outta Compton or Chi-Raq. The Hateful Eight will be seen more widely, and Tarantino’s command of the culture (such as his acceptance by academics) will, regrettably, continue.

All this was to be expected from QT’s fashionable degenerate habits. But it’s especially dismaying that the dialogue-driven Tarantino doesn’t rise to the fanboy challenge he set himself by filming The Hateful Eight on 70mm celluloid, as if reviving cinema’s original aesthetic. QT has never been a visually accomplished filmmaker like Ford, Sam Peckinpah, or Sergio Leone, and his close-ups and shallow focus (particularly the undistinguished wintry exterior vistas and the scenes of foreground convulsions while the background is blurred) only recall cheap B-movies. This contradicts the deluxe visual imagery that once made 70mm roadshow exhibitions a moviegoer’s delight. The purpose of David Lean’s, Carol Reed’s, and Stanley Kubrick’s 70mm films was to magnify, if not glorify, human complexity. The complete ugliness of The Hateful Eight only proves that the high-class roadshow presentation has — like racial empathy — gone the way of social etiquette.

For beer lovers: http://thebeertravelguide.com
For movie lovers: http://russellhainline.com

  

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Brother Rabbit
Member since Oct 31st 2007
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57. "This dude is a fuccboi, Jerome would run him a fade"
In response to Reply # 55


  

          

______________________________

They're bureaucrats! I don't respect them.(c)Rick Sanchez

  

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kayru99
Member since Jan 26th 2004
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62. "WOW. Nice piece. I agree with about 90% of that"
In response to Reply # 55
Tue Dec-29-15 11:36 AM by kayru99

  

          

also, shooting in 70mm and having a movie be set largely indoors is just indulgent as all hell

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
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65. "that was actually one of the smartest things about the film."
In response to Reply # 62


  

          

>shooting in 70mm and having a movie be set largely indoors

inspired stylistic decision imo. the telegraph review nailed it, pretty much mirrors my feelings exactly: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/film/hateful-eight/review/

...

"The close-up was always Hollywood’s answer to the portrait, but the spaghetti western turned it into a landscape.

When Sergio Leone first zeroed in on Clint Eastwood’s narrowed eyes and gritted teeth in A Fistful of Dollars, he wasn’t just showing off his leading man’s face – he was revealing the craggy topography of his soul.

For the trick to work, you need time, the right cast, and some very wide-angle lenses to drink the details in – and the stately, imperious, pyrotechnically thrilling new film from Quentin Tarantino has all three in ludicrous supply.

When Tarantino announced that he would be shooting his forthcoming western, The Hateful Eight, in Ultra Panavision 70 – an arcane camera process last used in the Fifties and Sixties on horizon-stretching extravaganzas like Ben-Hur and The Fall of the Roman Empire – the last thing anyone imagined was that most of the movie would take place inside a shed. The format was built for lassoing entire mountain ranges.

And in fairness, Tarantino’s film does lots of that, particularly in its glorious opening act (all praise to his cinematographer Robert Richardson: the landscapes have a sculptural grandeur, and there is a sunset here that captures what I’m fairly certain is a previously undiscovered shade of pink).

But after around 45 minutes the film arrives at the cramped confines of Minnie’s Haberdashery, a general store on the road to the frontier town of Red Rock, and there it remains for most of the rest of its leisurely three-hour running time...

And this is where Tarantino’s absurdly wide shots become unexpectedly vital. As the characters gruffly suss one another out, realising that all is not what it seems, you find yourself scrutinising their faces, or raking through the background for clues, watching loaded, spotting alliances being forged and broken."

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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kayru99
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78. "yeah, that's a bunch of bullshit, lol"
In response to Reply # 65
Wed Dec-30-15 04:15 PM by kayru99

  

          

cuz the plot wasn't heady enough
and the close-ups and cuts in Leone's films were rhythmic devices to elevate tension.
They were also reaction shots.
You had a pretty good feel for who's who in those flicks due to plot, so they were not revealing the craggy topography of anyone's soul.
Also, WTF at ^^^THAT^^^ horseshit.
Tarantino took the technique with none of the theory behind it.
He does that a LOT, and waits for critics to make up shit like above to give more weight than what's actually there.

  

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dula dibiasi
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79. "i couldn't disagree more."
In response to Reply # 78
Wed Dec-30-15 05:16 PM by dula dibiasi

  

          

the "extreme wide shots in closed quarters" thing worked completely for me. felt like watching a stage play from row 1.

imo 70 isn't just for shooting vistas. it can also be used effectively in more intimate settings, as PTA showed to great effect with 'the master'. i thought the way tarantino fills his frame in this film was brilliant.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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80. "I actually agree with all of this."
In response to Reply # 79


  

          

The theatricality was why I enjoyed it so much. Although I did miss the gorgeous nature scenery once they went inside, as it was some of Richardson's best work.

For beer lovers: http://thebeertravelguide.com
For movie lovers: http://russellhainline.com

  

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SoulHonky
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81. "The 70mm complaint is a surprise to me."
In response to Reply # 79


          

Unless the complaint is that the film is worse off for it (which I think it pretty clearly isn't) then who cares?

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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Von Pea
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56. "Dumb Question"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

how wrong was I for assuming the 70mm would be shown strictly on large screens like Interstellar? Because to my knowledge Interstellar was only billed 70mm on the large screens.

I bought into the 70mm marketing mostly because of how grand Interstellar was when i saw it on the (huge) screen. I was looking to have that experience again. Got my fix of QT-isms regardless.

  

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Wordman
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63. "I saw Interstellar in 70 at BAM, and it was on their small screen"
In response to Reply # 56


  

          

So I went in with that expectation when I saw Hateful 8 at Village East Cinema in (wait for it) the East Village.
To my surprise, the Village East showed it on a huge screen (I had never been to VEC before).


"Your current frequencies of understanding outweigh that which has been given for you to understand." Saul Williams

  

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Von Pea
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67. "I SAW IT THERE TOO SMH"
In response to Reply # 63


  

          

in theater 7. small screen, I was expecting the huge theater too. ah well. haha


vonpea.com

  

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Wordman
Member since Apr 11th 2003
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64. "Dope flick. I give it 4 say words."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Probably the least "Tarantino" of his movies.
I wouldn't go so far as to say it's "different," and I'm certain no one left the cinema disappointed, but it does manage to defy expectations.
I'm sure you don't need to be told it's well written and well acted, right?
Oh, and I hereby nominate Kurt Russell's facial for hair for a Spilled Latte.


"Your current frequencies of understanding outweigh that which has been given for you to understand." Saul Williams

  

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dula dibiasi
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66. "sam jack is >>> in this than he was in pulp fiction btw."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

fantastic performance.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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Von Pea
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68. "Lance Lawson = plothole? *SPOILER*"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          



how did the British "hangman" really have a notice to hang Lance Lawson in Red Rock?


vonpea.com

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
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69. "RE: Lance Lawson = plothole? *SPOILER*"
In response to Reply # 68


  

          

i had just assumed that hicox had killed the real mobray at some point in the relatively recent past and was trading on his papers.

i think they even stated that explicitly at one point in the film, when major marquis was doing his hercule poirot thing.




>how did the British "hangman" really have a notice to hang
>Lance Lawson in Red Rock?

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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ErnestLee
Member since Mar 03rd 2003
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Wed Dec-30-15 09:41 AM

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71. "Have to assume the theatrical is easier to get thru"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Good lord.

---------------------------------------------------------

  

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SoulHonky
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76. "Just the overture and intermission are gone"
In response to Reply # 71


          

Or so I've been told.

I'm not sure that helps. I needed the intermission.

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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dula dibiasi
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77. "some of the scenes are also different."
In response to Reply # 76


  

          

i've seen the 70mm roadshow and watched the dvd screener, and i definitely noticed that the former featured longer takes in a number of scenes. i read a qt interview the other day where he confirms that. it's about 6 minutes longer.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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ErnestLee
Member since Mar 03rd 2003
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72. "Why not just poison the coffee from the beginning?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

smh

---------------------------------------------------------

  

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The Analyst
Member since Sep 22nd 2007
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73. "Man, been mulling this fucking thing over for like 5 days..."
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Dec-30-15 12:41 PM by The Analyst

  

          

Can't come down with a firm position yet.

Technically, it's a major accomplishment. Very easily his best looking movie, and one of the best looking of the year.

Many of the performances were excellent.

I loved the slow burn of everything pre-intermission. At halftime, I thought I may be in the midst of a near masterpiece.

I struggled with the second half a bit. At the very least, I don't think I've digested it entirely.

If you buy into the idea that it's a social commentary, it feels almost oppressively pessimistic to me (we're living in a society of complete mayhem that's still simmering with distrust, hate and inequality, that also lacks the capacity to apply justice correctly), yet the last shot oddly hits a note that almost sounds like something vaguely optimistic (hey, maybe someday future generations will get this American Dream thing figured out for once and for all).

With that said, I'm not still not sold on how he went about saying what he had to say. I'm not even sure I'm reading what he had to say correctly. There's a lot to chew on there. I'm still up in the air. Really need to see it again.

----

  

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Ceej
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74. "So did Minnie like Mexicans or not?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://i.imgur.com/vPqCzVU.jpg

  

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ErnestLee
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75. "I think she just hated chihuahuas"
In response to Reply # 74


  

          

---------------------------------------------------------

  

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MEAT
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96. "AYYYYYEEEEE"
In response to Reply # 75


  

          

-------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

  

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Ryan M
Member since Oct 21st 2002
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Thu Dec-31-15 07:35 PM

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82. "I'll sit with it awhile but rather pointless....just ok. "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Never found it boring but it's long....needlessly so. There's a lot to like and a lot to dislike. QT did his haters a lot of favors with this one. The indulgence in...well, everything, is staggering.

------------------------------
'18-'19 LA Lakers

James. Ingram. Ball. Kuzma. Stephenson. Rondo. Caldwell-Pope. McGee. TBD...

  

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handle
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83. "I saw it tonight (tech spoilers)"
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Saw it at Arlcight La Jolla. Screen was masked on top, left and right. Not a very big screen to begin with, pretty small at 2.76:1 on it.

We sat in Row F , which is the bottom row of stadium seats where the wheelcharis normally go and I think we'd have been better off in row D which was about 15 feet closer to the screen.

We got the Overtune with cards but we didn't get the intermission music and no card was shown. I think the projectionists was cleaning the gate or making other adjustments and then just skipped to the end of reel 6C for the 70mm version.

Slight flicker visible in outdoor scenes, mostly good otherwise. I think maybe, just maybe it was a little darker than it should have been - but it was close to how I imagine they meant to show it.

Film did not break. After Intermission I thought they might have switched over to DCP, but I saw some fain't green scrapes in the corners, so it was emulsion scratches and still on film.

Sound was clear but not overly loud.

I really think the ascept ratio's going to suck on Bluray - it's just too wide.

He did compose some interesting stuff using the width, but jesus it was indulgent.

The theatre was 90% full, with people sitting in the second row and *all* stadium seats sold. Not a peep out of anyone. Saw no cell phones. People paid attention - it was a nice change.

We got programs on the way out.

The film did not seem that long to me, I think the pacing was good. A friend thought some of the exteriors and set-ups where unnecessarily slow but agreed the tension was almost unbearable in some scenes.

------------
My prayers have been answered!

Gone
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jswerve386
Member since Jun 25th 2007
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Fri Jan-01-16 07:20 PM

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84. "The last two QT movies I saw in the theater there were cats clapping"
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Fri Jan-01-16 07:21 PM by jswerve386

  

          

at the end of the film (Inglorious and Django) .. This one was straight silence with cats just grabbing their belongings and bouncing . I liked the movie. But it definitely didn't have that epic triumph feeling at the end.

And holy fuck, I'm certain this movie said Nigger more than Django Unchained and that joint was set BEFORE the civil war.. It just felt gratuitous at a certain point.

Id rate it in his bottom 4 tier of movies out his his 8 released. Entertaining but I have no reason or desire to ever see that jawn again.

yupyupyupyupyupyupyupyupyupyupyupyupyupyup

  

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lfresh
Member since Jun 18th 2002
92693 posts
Fri Jan-01-16 11:54 PM

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85. "only thing giving me pause about disliking this film"
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is seeing chiraq right before it and ex machina the week before


ex machina turns out to have other things going on
reg called chiraq a beautiful mess and i agree
JSmooth called this a cruel indulgence and i agree

i found all three disturbing as hell
its very hard to disturb me
all three of these film are my genre of choice in my fav filmmakers for the last two

perturbed is what i'm walking away with
and hoping quentin is trying to tell us something
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

  

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kayru99
Member since Jan 26th 2004
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Sat Jan-02-16 05:37 PM

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87. "QT has absoluetly nothing to say,ever, other than"
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1. violence is cool
2. 60s/70s niche cinema was awesome
3. NIGGER!!!


and not necessarily in that order.

Honestly, I don't think he's smart/disciplined enough to make a concise statement with a film. I don't think he ever wants to, or tries to.

  

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rdhull
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Sat Jan-02-16 10:27 AM

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86. "smh /lol "
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Ishwip
Member since Jun 10th 2005
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Mon Jan-04-16 09:25 AM

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89. "Went to 70mm; projector died an hour in and we were escorted out"
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Given 2 free tickets.

Came back the next day but Cardinals/Seahawks were in town and parking was mandatory $10. Eff that! Went home.

Found out this morning AMC would have reimbursed us haha.....should have known that.

Ended up watching the screener rip yesterday and found the movie a chore to get through, which I've never felt with any of his films. I've always dug the long, meandering dialogue in his joints but this time I didn't find much of it clever or entertaining. The payoff wasn't there and really the only tension I felt was how sleepy I got. :/

__
I don't like the beat anymore because its just a loop. ALC didn't FLIP IT ENOUGH!

Flip it enough? Flip these. Flip off. Go flip some f*cking burgers.(c)Kno

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dgonsh
Member since Aug 14th 2002
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Tue Jan-05-16 12:47 PM

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90. "I guess i'm easy...i enjoyed it"
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Tue Jan-05-16 12:48 PM by dgonsh

  

          

I loved the performances, cinematography, landscapes, the overall look and feel (i felt cold the entire time even though our theatre was balmy AF). The score is still escalating up and down in my mind a week after the fact. Goggins was putting in work. Same for Sam and JJL.

for a movie centric forum that we have here at PTP, how much better does it get than the roadshow? The overture, intermission and pre-intermission climax were exactly what I dream of when going to a theatre. Having said that, I could only stomach an experience like that every so often. It worked for *this* movie.

As a privileged white male, my take on QT's use of the N-word is functionally invalid, but it is probably fairly accurate to the way white people spoke at the time so it seems more shocking through the lens of today than it does in the actual setting. Its jarring and people in my theatre uncomfortably laughed in shock the first time JJL says it to sam in the wagon. but thats also a device used to make us realize this woman is demonic and we should struggle when feeling any pity for her.

I dunno...I was exhausted when we saw the 10:30pm showing and after the overture I was certain I was gonna accidentally fall asleep 10 mins in, but from that first shot of the Jesus sculpture I rarely blinked through the entire 3 hrs that followed.

The 70mm format clearly contributed to how vast the cabin felt despite its smallness.

********************************************************************




"I *always* quote myself. I'm the only reliable source on *most* subjects" - OKP's First Lady of Knowledge, Janey

  

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Nodima
Member since Jul 30th 2008
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Tue Jan-05-16 01:49 PM

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91. "I liked it but had my issues with it as well."
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Tue Jan-05-16 01:51 PM by Nodima

  

          

I don't mind the language. We recently got an Alamo Drafthouse in Omaha and they're doing a "The Hateful Great" retrospective on QT so I saw Pulp Fiction in theaters for the first time the following night (last night) and felt far more uncomfortable with that film's use of 'nigger'. Not the Jimmy stuff, but it felt egregious in every other instance. Tarantino sure does like to paint his villains as racists.


I was dragging a little through the monologue by Samuel L. Jackson as well and I'm surprised more people aren't a little bothered by it. It would've been one thing without actually showing us the son sucking his dick, because I was under the impression it was all a ruse to piss Old Man Rebel off and get him to draw that gun on Sam. Re-enacting what I read as a lie just seemed like an odd, Mandingo embellishment that wasn't necessary.


But after the intermission (which was GREATLY appreciated at that point) I was hooked from the jump. I loved the whole "Passengers" chapter, and the violence was spectacular throughout the final chapter. My girlfriend fucking cackled when Señor Dan got his head blown off, that may be my favorite gratuitous violence bit in Tarentino's recent love affair with the form.


Overall, I can see any argument that posits this isn't Tarentino's best movie. It's more grounded than most (in that its dialogue lacks character), heavy-handed beyond reason in its finale (the first thing I said walking out of the theater was that I wished Tarentino hadn't tried to apologize for his use of 'nigger', or whatever he was trying to do, with that final bedside scene) and seemed a bit vapidly in love with itself in a way I haven't felt so strongly from other recent Tarentino films (even Death Proof).


But, like guy above me said, I guess I'm easy. My interest waned at times but I loved the fourth and fifth acts all the way to its somewhat unfortunate ending. The opening was also super gorgeous, Morricone adapted his style to the modern, bass-heavy times effortlessly and the whole ensemble pulled their weight, especially Jackson, Goggins, Russell and JJL.


My last complaint is that they didn't show the effort it'd require those two men to get that woman in a noose, let alone set it up for a hanging, given their condition. I'd have rather they just left that out and implied she was found and hanged at a later date.

~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
Member since Dec 25th 2010
16253 posts
Tue Jan-05-16 02:00 PM

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92. "Joe Gage and O.B were the only characters that didn't say"
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Tue Jan-05-16 02:02 PM by Nick Has a Problem..

  

          

Nigger. Movie was cool but too long. Could have easily been trimmed down at least 30mins. Dug the score too. QT is usually on point with the music he selects for his films.

****************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

"Dude just seems like he's been chosen for some reason. Maybe he did a backspin for Oprah or something." micMajestic

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denny
Member since Apr 11th 2008
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Thu Jan-07-16 04:44 AM

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93. "Loved it."
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Man...that's a trifecta. Inglorious....Django....and then the 8. Quentin's outgrown his initial persona and become something different to me. This film was incredible.

  

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denny
Member since Apr 11th 2008
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Sat Jan-09-16 09:23 PM

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94. "Spoiler:"
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Sat Jan-09-16 09:24 PM by denny

          

So is Daisy's character symbolic of white supremacy/privilege?

Or is that an oversimplification/reading too much into it?

I'm trying to put it together to see if it holds water.....

So slavery has been abolished......Daisy (as a symbol of white supremacy) is beaten and bruised but is still alive. And she is being held prisoner by a white man who holds her under wraps but doesn't want to kill her. Ie he's keeping his privilege in his back pocket in case he needs it. The fact that he is gonna cash in on her also kinda works in this regard. She is a currency for him just like privilege is....and though he might be 'less racist' than the other characters....he still wants her for the benefit she provides. She represents a pay-off for him.

Then when shit hits the fan and she is (somewhat) unleashed.....she offers up opportunity/advantage to the white character at the expense of the black character.

The surprise turn at the end to me was that the white character rejects her offer and decides to hang her with Sam Jackson. Why did he do that? There's a change somewhere in his character and I can't identify why that happened. Why didn't he cash in on the privilege that she represents? I'm guessing there's an answer for that I'm missing.

In anycase...then they hang her together in an oddly touching manner. They looked so cute and giddy together fastening that rope. So this would be a black and white man destroying white supremacy together which I guess would suggest that we ALL need to dismantle institutional racism. It's not enough for only the oppressed to fight white supremacy because of the nature of oppression. The people who benefit from the oppression need to do their part too. And that, in the end, it's in ALL of our interests to do so.

I'm kinda going on a limb here and I realize I might be doing too much. Anyone agree with this reading or have anything to add?

  

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
25919 posts
Sat Jan-09-16 09:53 PM

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95. "I think it's reading too much into it"
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Sat Jan-09-16 09:53 PM by SoulHonky

          

Unless the argument is that White Privilege isn't extended to poor white people because Mannix turns down the deal because he was almost poisoned... basically, he's upset that he wasn't given privilege.
But then, it doesn't really make sense since white privilege is why he went from marauder to sheriff.

Ultimately, I think QT's story overwhelmed his message but the strands are there that people can read pretty much anything from it.

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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denny
Member since Apr 11th 2008
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Sun Jan-10-16 01:36 AM

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98. "Hadn't thought of that."
In response to Reply # 95
Sun Jan-10-16 02:00 AM by denny

          

Ok, so Mannix realizes that he will be excluded from some of the privileges of white supremacy but not all of them. So that does kinda start to formulate why he has a change of heart and works with my suggestion.

Somewhat related: When Mannix reads the Abe letter at the end he refers to the last line and says 'nice touch'. He says that with admiration just like Russell's character did earlier....but this time it's in the context that he knows it's a fake. So this is Mannix acknowledging Sam Jack's character's ability to navigate white supremacy and giving him props for doing it successfully.

A good test.....If there's any truth to my idea than the lyrics of the song she sings should show something like that. i'll try to find them.

  

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kayru99
Member since Jan 26th 2004
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Mon Jan-11-16 01:07 AM

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101. "...so we're here already, lol?"
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denny
Member since Apr 11th 2008
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Wed Jan-13-16 01:03 AM

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109. "?"
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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Sun Jan-10-16 01:13 AM

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97. "Glenn Kenny, as usual, provides a terrific read on H8Ful Eight."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://somecamerunning.typepad.com/some_came_running/2016/01/notes-on-the-hateful-eight.html

1

In the last scene of Bigger Than Life, the 1956 film directed by Nicholas Ray and produced by its star, James Mason, Ed Avery, the middle-class teacher played by Mason, is lying in a hospital bed after a psychotic episode brought on, ostensibly, by cortisone abuse. That episode was previously depicted in a scene much beloved of cinephiles, a scene in which Avery enacts the Biblical passage in which God demands that Abraham sacrifice his son. When Avery’s wife Lou (Barbara Rush) reminds Ed that God subsequently rescinded his merciless demand, Ed thunders, “God was wrong!” In any event, Ed, now subdued, and having experienced what his doctor (Robert Simon) describes as “a deep, refreshing sleep,” may now see his family. A moment of truth awaits. If the psychotic episode was indeed a definitive break with reality, Ed may not be the same kind and thoughtful family man he was before cortisone began twisting up his personality.

Ed’s awakening is not initially promising. “Turn out the sun,” he says, referring, as it turns out, to his room’s overhead lamp. Then, looking at his doctor, he asks the usual questions and admits: “I’m disappointed.”

“About what?” asks his doctor.

“You’re a poor substitute for Abraham Lincoln.”

The seeming non sequitur strongly suggests that Ed’s still loony, but no: he recognizes his family, he remembers his breakdown, he grows emotional, beckons for his son, and says, “I was dreaming. I walked with Lincoln. He was as big, and ugly, and beautiful, as he was in life. Abraham.”

And then he remembers.

“Abraham!” he shouts.

2

No one, save for a very willful person, would insist that Quentin Tarantino is an artist with an overweening, or maybe one would better say primary, interest in morality. Either in the abstract or in practice. Tarantino is, though, an artist who has a great deal of interest in manipulating audiences with respect to affinity and empathy. And as a filmmaker whose biggest point of reference is genre cinema, he owes a lot, in terms of ideas if not overt technique, to the genre cinema artist nonpareil, Alfred Hitchcock. Tarantino’s affinity for genre cinema also ties in with a certain sadistic streak (we should remember that no less a figure than André Bazin detected a similar streak in Hitchcock, and found it largely if not wholly objectionable). This sadistic streak, more than just compelling him to depict galvanically hyperbolic acts of violence in the goriest of details, also drives him to concoct ethical conundrums that place audience in uncomfortable and uncomfortably shifting positions.

So, The Hateful Eight. It opens, more or less, with a shot of sadly hanging wooden Christ in the snow, and for a long time the image seems merely generically cheeky. There’s a stagecoach, with John “The Hangman” Ruth inside, chained to Daisy Domergue, a prisoner for whom he intends to collects $10,000 for in a town called Red Rock. On a sled ahead of the stage, stranded in snow are piled several male corpses. These belong to another bounty hunter, Major Marquis Warren, an African-American Civil War veteran who prefersto kill his prey before bringing them in for his reward. These three, and the exempted-from-hatefulness stage driver O.B., are the first characters the viewer meets in the film.

While they are played by movie stars who are expert at turning on the charm, and they participate in several exchanges that peg them as intelligent, articulate, and even ingratiating, Kurt Russell’s John Ruth and Samuel L. Jackson’s Marquis Warren are not “good” guys, or “good guys,” except in the context of their circumscribed and mutually agreed-upon worlds. These men are killers; they make their living at it. I think one has to take Tarantino’s word with respect to his title—these and the characters to come are indeed hateful, regardless of how the movie will continue to undermine that fact. As for Jennifer Jason Leigh’s Daisy Domergue, she does not charm, not in a conventional sense—her greeting to Warren is an dryly perky “Howdy, nigger!” about which more in a bit. She is unusually cheerful for a woman chained to a man who continually elbows her in the face and smites her with the butt of his handgun. Tarantino’s film, like several of his others, is divided into designated chapters, and the chapter right after is intermission is called “Domergue’s Got A Secret.” But Daisy acts as if she has a secret very early on, giving Warren insinuating looks, and even a wink at one point. Could be she’s crazy—her wild eyes and seethingly inappropriate grin suggest as much. As it happens, she is not, at least not in the sense of being delusional.

On the ride to Minnie’s, Ruth and Warren revive an acquaintance that had begun some months before, and buttress their affinity via the sharing of what they refer to as “the Lincoln letter,” that is, a letter to Marquis from Abraham Lincoln that the Major keeps as a particularly proud souvenir.

Just as the viewer may have begun to cozy up to Major Warren, who is one the one hand a bounty hunter, but on the other hand isn’t persistently punching a defenseless woman in the face, a new stage passenger, Walton Goggins’ would-be Red Rock sheriff Chris Mannix, tries to pour cold water on any coziness. After Mannix recounts the tale of just how Warren escaped from a Confederate prison. Warren shrugs at Mannix’s indignation. “The whole damn place was made out of kindling…so I burnt it down,” he notes. Everybody in the stage laughs except Mannix, who points out that the fruits of Warren’s labors, his escape aside, were “47 men, burned to a crisp.” He then raises on his hand, so to speak, claiming that those men included more Union casualties than rebel. “You joined the war to keep niggers in chains,” Warren says with no small irritation. “I joined the war to kill white southern crackers.” John Ruth finds this amusing enough.

The interactions between the four male characters that turn out to not be in cahoots with Daisy are all about, as it happens, overturning whatever positive impressions the viewers may have formed. A basic knowledge of Civil War history will enable one to connect the dots between “Mannix’s raiders” and “Quantrill’s raiders,” and the resultant pictures a viewer may derive from that are not pretty. Marquis Warren’s grudge against confederate general Smithers extends beyond the general fact that Smithers was a leader of white southern crackers and harks back to a specific incident suffered by Warren. So, the guys we are offered as possible heroes (I’m including Smithers in this bunch not because it’s particularly logical, but because you never know, especially up until five minutes or so before the film’s intermission) are, to recap, a bounty hunter who’s especially meticulous about making sure his captives are subjected to a grisly and sadistic method of execution; a man who shrugs off the indiscriminate slaughter of nearly 50 souls that resulted from his deliberately undertaken actions; and two out-and-out war criminals at least.

This is not, I would have to argue, insignificant. These really are not good people. But the audience’s sympathies and their manipulation rely on some of them being considered at some point in time to be less non-good than some of the others. And then, more. The twists in the moral dynamic do bring to mind the action of a corkscrew, but by the same token the movie’s narrative is so dispersive and discursive—such a splatter, eventually—that another metaphor might be that of a ping-pong game in which the ball very frequently gets banged far away from the table. Whatever the metaphor, one is obliged to admit that even the characters capable of behaving in a charming, ingratiating, sympathetic way all lack a certain, shall we say, emotional maturity. (This may also be true, as seems to be a particularly popular line these days, of the man who wrote these characters. But let’s not get carried away, either; Tarantino, as far as I know, has never actually killed anyone.)

Given these circumstances, it’s only proper in a certain scheme of things that these characters all behave in ways that ultimately doom them. The critic Armond White has astutely pointed out that in this film Samuel L. Jackson’s character serves as an alter ego for the director himself. This conclusion can be bolstered via examination of some of Tarantino’s more ostentatiously fulsome interviews, in which he’s claimed explicit forms of identification with African-American men. Inasmuch as Warren can be seen as the ultimate “hero” of The Hateful Eight, it is also noteworthy that he’s the character who solves, at least in part, its central mystery; he’s the Hercule Poirot of what Tarantino’s called, more than once, his “Agatha Christie mystery.”

But he is ultimately a self-defeating character. The big scene that ends the first half of the movie shows Warren at first (seemingly) caught in a lie, and then, having rationalized his lie, shows him settling, rather arbitrarily, a very personal score. It’s here that the movie, which up until this point has been so narratively straightforward as to seem not just conventional but stage bound and potentially stagnant, starts to break out of its shell. Tarantino’s manic declared “hatred” of John Ford notwithstanding, it’s also here that the ironies of Ford’s The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance relative to truth and fable start to resonate in a rather ghastly register. After the authenticity of the “Lincoln letter” is very credibly dismantled by Mannix, Warren seems genuinely crestfallen, but rather than dismiss his interlocutors in a huff, he deigns to rationalize his choices. He seems particularly unhappy to have disappointed John Ruth. (“Guess it’s true what they say about you people. Can’t trust a fucking word that comes out of your mouth,” spits a disgusted Ruth, and perhaps the word he’s looking for is “shifty?” Polite but defiant—and obviously trying to maintain relations out of a certain self-interest—Warren counters, “I know I’m the only black son of a bitch you ever conversed with so I’m gonna cut you some slack.”) But, he insists, he has his reasons, and they are, he insists, good. The man whom everybody in the cabin save Ruth, stage driver O.B., and the Mexican Bob call “nigger” over and over says ““The only time black folks is safe is when white folks is disarmed. And this letter had the desired effect of disarming white folks.” As for his ultimate justification, he reminds John Ruth that the Lincoln letter was, in a very real sense, the thing that got him on to the stagecoach with Ruth. Saved his life, in other words.

After which Warren starts right in on General Smithers. While it may well be “true” that Warren did meet and kill Smithers’ son, the evidence that Warren is making up the story of torture and sexual abuse is strong indeed. It’s in the visual language: not so much the “flashback” visualizing the incident in the tale Warren tells (which, like the soon-to-come narration, are bold strokes of meta-directorial intervention), but the close-ups of Smithers’ eyes when Warren’s tongue rolls out another particularly juicy detail. “Big black pecker out of my pants,” say, and then that near-avuncular smile as Warren explains “it was full of blood so it was warm.” This leads up to what is currently and will likely remain the films most famous and quotable line: “You’re starting to see pictures, ain’t ya?” Indeed he is, as is the audience, literally, because Tarantino’s putting the improbable images up there. In a recent interview in the Guardian, the poet Claudia Rankine said “Blackness in the white imagination has nothing to do with black people” and continued “When white men are shooting black people, some of it is malice and some an out-of-control image of blackness in their minds. Darren Wilson told the jury that he shot Michael Brown because he looked ‘like a demon.’ And I don’t disbelieve that.” When Smithers goes for his gun, Warren looks even more like a demon to him than he did when he first entered the cabin. Warren was, of course, counting on that. It enables him to get the drop on the guy, and blow a hole right through his chest.

But this ultimately will prove a pyrrhic victory. Consider: when Marquis Warren arrives at Minnie’s Haberdashery, he notices that Bob’s a Mexican, he notices that the chair that only Sweet Dave is allowed to sit in is occupied by another person, he notices that a jellybean is on the floor. But rather than try to get any of this sorted right away, he indulges in a diversion that ends with him killing a man who, as it turns out, is of no material threat to him. And he does so in a way that creates a sufficient distraction for one of Daisy Domergue’s cronies to poison the coffee. (Or, as Tarantino’s in-need-of-a-copy-edit narration puts it, “something equally as important happened.” Oy.)

3

“Domergue, to you this is MAJOR Warren,” John Ruth says as he’s about to let Warren on the stagecoach. Daisy gives a droll little wave and says “Howdy nigger,” implying a bit of unspoken knowledge: here, she sees, is someone a rung or two, or three, below her on the social ladder—despite her being both a woman and a despised criminal.

Nevertheless, up to the point when Warren kills General Smithers in “self defense,” as Tarantino’s narrator (who is Tarantino himself) tells us was the general consensus of the cabin’s inhabitants at the time of the shooting, Daisy Domergue has been the only person on the receiving end of staggering physical violence, which she almost invariably grins at once the smarting stops. In an article for Variety by Kris Tapley, about the notion that the film is misogynist, Tarantino insists, “You’re supposed to say, ‘Oh my God. John Ruth is a brutal bastard!’” Okay, but by the same token, most of John Ruth’s shots at Daisy are performed and timed like gags in a Three Stooges short, particularly the bit where he tosses a bowlful of stew in her face. You don’t have to be a woman-hater to laugh, because the brutality—its realism in a certain dimension notwithstanding—is played for comedy.

Tapley’s piece also quotes critic Stephanie Zacharek to the effect that Daisy’s continued defiance in the face of her abuse registers as the “triumphant opposite” of misogyny.

But is Daisy’s triumph, if you want to call it that, really worth celebrating? For me the most staggering sequence in The Hateful Eight is its Chapter Five, “The Four Passengers.” It represents one of the most audacious and effective uses of flashback structuring I’ve seen in a Tarantino film, and if you know Tarantino’s films, you know he does a lot of flashback structuring. The chapter shows just what happened at Minnie’s Haberdashery prior to the arrival of Warren, Ruth, Domergue, and O.B.. It introduces the audience to the only good, and only truly likable, characters in the film: The coach drivers Ed and Six-Horse Judy, and the crew of Minnie’s Haberdashery: Minnie, Gemma, Sweet Dave, and a day laborer named Charlie. These folks are total innocents, kind, welcoming, good-humored. And given what the audience knows at this point in the film, the audience now also has to know that it is about to see them die.

It is kind of droll that Tarantino cast Channing Tatum, the Prom King of Gawker Nation (this is through no fault of his own, I feel compelled to note), in the role of what is in fact the movie’s most loathsome character, the ringleader of the killers “Mobray,” “Joe Gage,” and “Bob.” Tarantino even obliges Tatum to utter the phrase “pile of niggers,” which is close to Pulp Fiction’s ostentatious and perpetually distasteful “dead nigger storage” on the objectionability scale, not once, but twice. (Discussing the supposedly rampant use of the racial epithet at a recent panel, Jackson amusedly speculated that prior to having to say her first line in the film, Jennifer Jason Leigh had probably never uttered the word “nigger” in her life. He continued: ““It’s not disingenuous, it’s honest, and it’s coming out of characters’ mouths from an honest place, especially in that particular time. People are just getting past a war that divided a country, that freed a bunch of people that a bunch of people didn’t want freed, and they’re running around free, so who are we talking about? Oh those ‘free colored people?’ Um, no. Nobody was saying that.” Discussing the supposed preponderance of the word in Tarantino’s Jackie Brown in 1998, the novelist Elmore Leonard said, ““Spike Lee said the word was used 38 times. I wondered how many would be acceptable. Maybe 19? If that’s the way the character talks, if that’s his sound, you gotta go with it. You can’t say, `Oh, he has to stop at 20.’”) This is really not very nice at all. But nothing in this scene is nice or comforting. The violence isn’t choreographed or played out for the least comedic effect, as it has been and will be a little later.

“Mobray” and “Gage” and “Bob” dispatch their victims with brisk relish; it’s particularly awful to see Tim Roth’s impassive Pete/“Mobray” put a second bullet into Brenda Owino’s Gemma. And then to watch Michael Madsen’s “Joe Gage” do the same to Zoe Bell’s Judy. (It has been noted that Tarantino, fond of what are likely first-draft nomenclature in-jokes, gave Madsen’s character’s alias the name of a director of all-male porn; similarly, Marquis Warren is a gloss on Charles Marquis Warren, a real-life Western movie and TV director.) It makes all the male bonding stuff Tatum’s Jody and his gang engage in play as masculinity at its most toxic. And the violence is so immediate that it’s easy to forget, I suppose, that it’s all being executed for Daisy’s sake, and in Daisy’s name. And nothing she says or does in the actual diegesis suggests that she has any objections whatsoever, which fact could lead a viewer to infer that she’d have no problem doing it herself. This perhaps opens up the question as to whether any of the violence done to her, or her grisly final moments, were “deserved.” Like the man in Unforgiven (the Western in which no single character even commented on the fact that the main character’s companion/hunting partner was African American) said, “Deserve’s got nothing to do with it,” and he may have been right. But if he was right, it's cold comfort for the victims of the massacre in this movie.

4

Like Bigger Than Life, a film many critics have interpreted as being about a very particularly American kind of grandiose madness, The Hateful Eight ends with an invocation/evocation of Abraham Lincoln. As the probably mortally wounded Mannix and Warren hang Daisy Domergue, Mannix reads aloud Warren’s “Lincoln letter.”

Previously decried by Mannix as a fake, it’s at his request that Marquis Warren retrieves it, for what the audience has every reason to believe is its last reading anywhere. For some reason, Mannix now wants to believe. “Nothing can bring together a black man and a white, a young man and an old, a country man and a city man, than a dollar placed between them,” the critic and historian Nick Tosches. But what’s bringing Mannix and Warren together at the end is…a thirst for vengeance? Well, sure, but one ought to remember that unless he really is lying, Mannix is the duly appointed sheriff of Red Rock, and by putting in with Warren and executing Daisy Domergue, the fellows form

one nation under God perpetrating the opposite of “frontier justice.” But deriving great personal satisfaction from their work nonetheless. Regardless of how you interpret what they’re up to, what they’re up to is very nasty indeed (the hanging figure of Domergue does come to perversely resemble the hanging wooden Christ of the movie’s opening), and part of this film’s cinematic jolt, if it carries any power for you at all, derives from the sensibility dissonance in which a grindhouse ethos is mounted in an overblown “distinguished” presentation. The UltraPanavision, the overture, the intermission; the second-rateness and claustrophobia of Ice Station Zebra do not quite provide precedent for the Italian zombie-movie gore and Euro-redolent extremes of pessimism and cynicism that distinguish this movie’s vision. (By the same token, much Euro-sadistic cinema doesn’t have the visual clarity and fluidity that Tarantino brings to this largely in-close-quarters narrative; in terms of making every space a cinematic space, Tarantino is not Kubrick, it’s true, but he gets the job largely done.) Said pessimism and cynicism has sent more than one writing viewer of the film to the Good Liberal Fainting Couch, and I can’t say that’s not understandable. Tarantino’s approach does have, undeniably, more than a touch of “giggly viciousness.” I think “giggly viciousness” is Martin Amis’ phrase, and if I continue to remember correctly he coined it as a description of something he’s proud to have grown out of. Some people, some artists, never do. It’s an open question as to whether unexamined self-righteousness is the most apt response to an artist who does not.

I don’t think it’s particularly constructive to spend a lot of time speculating as to whether the cynicism and pessimism of The Hateful Eight is “earned” or not. One recollects Sam Fuller’s original ending for his 1957 Western Forty Guns. This would have showed his ostensible hero, Griff, as a guy who would actually kill the woman he professed to love in order to then gun down the foe who shot his brother. This was not permitted, so Fuller concocted a ridiculous but ultimately very pleasing compromise: he made Griff so good a shot that he could plug the woman he loved so accurately that the woman he loved would fall but not suffer permanent or even vaguely life-threatening injury, clearing the way for him to then kill the foe who was holding her as a shield. Had Fuller been permitted to go with his original ending, could he have been said to have “earned” it?

Whatever Tarantino’s intentions or aspirations, the cynicism and pessimism of the movie is, I think, inarguably pertinent. Because Tarantino arguably revels in a mess rather than even trying to offer a solution, does that make him part of the problem? The extent to which this is or is not genuinely troubling would depend on the extent to which you rely on film and film criticism to be “problem”-oriented.

But let’s go with it a little. If Aretha Franklin’s performance of Carole King’s “(You Make Me Feel Like A) Natural Woman” at the Kennedy Center Honors in December can be seen as the most inspiringly optimistic vision of race relations in America in 2015/2016, The Hateful Eight can be seen as a purposefully rebarbative nightmare vision of same. This ought not surprise. As an individual, Tarantino may well have a social conscience, and even a social consciousness, but there’s no way that he’s ever been what you could call a socially responsible filmmaker. A few years ago, in a “State of the Cinema” address at the San Francisco Film International Festival, Steven Soderbergh, with mordant facetiousness, advised young filmmakers, when seeking financing, to “in the process of telling story, , stop yourself in the middle of a sentence and act like you’re having an epiphany, and say: “You know what, at the end of this day, this is a movie about hope.’” One ought give credit where it’s due, finally: Tarantino, cinema sensationalist nonpareil, has made a movie entirely not about hope, for what it’s worth.

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
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Sun Jan-10-16 10:51 AM

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99. "Holy word soup, Batman! "
In response to Reply # 97


          

That was a chore to get through and I don't think he really sold any of this points, especially the fact that the flashback was the most audacious and effective use of flashback that Tarantino has used.

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denny
Member since Apr 11th 2008
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Sun Jan-10-16 11:32 AM

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100. "I'm not the only one then."
In response to Reply # 99


          

Damn. It took me 15 minutes to read that.

  

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Frank Longo
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Mon Jan-11-16 02:08 PM

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103. "I could read Glenn write about movies all day."
In response to Reply # 99


  

          

I don't really care how many words he uses.

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handle
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104. "The thing I felt while watching the film is this...."
In response to Reply # 99


          

NONE of the main charters deserved any sympathy - or even to be liked at all.

I just accepted that, and let Quentin take me on a ride.

But only the stagecoach driver, or the staff of Minnie's in flashbacks were characters that had any redeeming qualities - ALL of the others were wholly "bad."

I've heard this criticism of the Sopranos too - and I feel the same way - all the main characters were "bad."

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
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Mon Jan-11-16 04:34 PM

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105. "Yeah, the "moral dynamic" was nil to me."
In response to Reply # 104


          

I mean, the movie's called The Hateful 8 and it's Tarantino so I wasn't expecting to like anyone. It was a throwback to Natural Born Killers and his original script for True Romance (in which Clarence and Alabama were more like Mickey and Mallory.)

I definitely didn't feel a corkscrew or moral dilemma.

Just for me, the ride QT took me on was boring, long, and sophomoric. I really did wonder for an instant if Eli Roth wrote the script and QT shot it to see what the response would be if his name/touch was on a Roth script.

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handle
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106. "^^Hyperbole"
In response to Reply # 105


          

> I really did wonder for an instant if Eli Roth wrote the script and QT shot it to see what the response would be if his name/touch was on a Roth script.

You didn't really think that - you just wanted to snark.

Because this is Quentin's film all the way.

And Eli Roth fucking SUCKS. (Not hating here, he can keep getting that cash - its a free country.)

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
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Tue Jan-12-16 01:04 AM

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107. "Yeah, I've never actually seen an Eli Roth movie"
In response to Reply # 106


          

Did he do Cabin Fever? I saw that one (but don't really remember it.)
So I'm probably giving Roth more credit. And there were definitely trademark Tarantino moments. I was just stunned at how much I hated it. I'm probably done with him but his previous films at least had moments.

And I've also always wanted a beloved director to release someone else's film under his name to see how people would react.

----
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denny
Member since Apr 11th 2008
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Wed Jan-13-16 05:15 AM

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110. "Forget what you heard."
In response to Reply # 107
Wed Jan-13-16 05:15 AM by denny

          

The hostel movies are fantastic. Especially the second one.

  

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phenompyrus
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102. "Having let this sink in for about a week..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

I think I do like this film, more than the last 2 of QT's.

I'd like to think he did a better job at directing this than writing it.

The performances were good across the board, Sam Jack, Kurt, Walton (who cares if he plays the same racist dude in all his roles, he's good at it), and JJL (who might be the film's strong point).

It was also filmed beautifully (thanks to Robert Richardson) and the music was perfect (thanks to Ennio Morricone).

That said, this is also the first movie where the use of the N-word seemed excessive, to the point where I noticed, and I usually don't pay any mind, so as to not be subjective, but this was pretty blatant.

Ultimately I think I'm intrigued at this more so than I normally would be, as I liken it to something like Prometheus, which was frustrating as hell (in a very different way), but I enjoyed it nonetheless.

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Splinter.
Member since Oct 22nd 2007
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Wed Jan-13-16 12:49 AM

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108. "Same here, I liked it more than Django and Bastards"
In response to Reply # 102


  

          

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Mon Nov-27-17 11:13 AM

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111. "I think this is a good movie that easily could have been great. "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

It's funny after seeing the, I thought, terrible Murder on the Orient Express I have been feigning to see a good mystery. So much so that I watched Clue last week.

This for most of the movie was the mystery I was looking for. But, I will admit it, I am getting older and the violence is hard to get over.

(spoilers)

It just seems so immature in QT movies. Sam Jackson's speech to the old man. Him getting his nuts shot off, the woman repeated punched in the face and ultimately hanged. All these this violence that was played for laughs I just can't ride with.

If it had been scaled back and taken more seriously I feel like this could have been a great movie of a mystery that explores the raw nerves left by the civil war, but then I guess it wouldn't have been a QT movie.




**********
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BigWorm
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Mon Nov-27-17 11:27 AM

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112. "yeah "
In response to Reply # 111


          

I agree that this was an okay movie that should have been much better. The performances were all great, the plot twist(s) was/were good. I guess the violence was typical Tarantino but it just seemed unnecessary here.

But really the part I had the biggest problem with was the "flashback" scene of dude giving Sam J a BJ.

I mean I know why it's in there, but the result is that it left the audience without a character to like or root for. Maybe that was kind of the point for a movie called The Hateful Eight, but at least in the other Tarantino movies the awful characters are still entertaining to watch. Here it was mostly just a full cast of characters I didn't like all killing each other.

I guess Jennifer Jason Leigh was okay in it though. But then again, just like almost every Tarantino film, things don't turn out very well for the female characters.

  

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tully_blanchard
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Thu Jan-10-19 08:29 AM

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113. "This..and cut about 30 minutes out of it..."
In response to Reply # 111


  

          

It was pretty entertaining, not as good as Inglorious...and yes, the use of "The N Word" was pretty gratuitous, but seeing JJL repeatedly punched, elbowed in the face, and the over the tallest top violence really took me out of it.

It became work to get through it.
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rorschach
Member since Nov 10th 2004
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Mon Jan-14-19 03:09 PM

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114. "Throw my whole review of this film in the trash...."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

This is not a midrange QT film, it's his worst.

Tarantino was trying his hand at being an AUTEUR auteur by being overly provocative and it came off silly and obnoxious. The film undercuts any point it has to make with its crassness.

The film is indulgent and reeks of a director getting an inch and taking miles. The exterior photography is absolutely gorgeous and 70mm was the right choice for those shots. But the majority of the film is indoors so the aspect ratio was wasted.

The score is still A+ but it's on this film.

Hateful Eight is like a child prodigy playing an amazing technical piano piece only to hit wrong notes on purpose in the most obnoxious way possible. And, according to some of those interviews at the time, Tarantino actually thought he was saying something interesting about race with this movie. Bitchplz.

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navajo joe
Member since Apr 13th 2005
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Mon Jan-14-19 05:26 PM

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115. "It's fucking awful "
In response to Reply # 114


  

          

I HATED this movie and all the more because it was a waste of Walton Goggins not to mention 70mm.

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rdhull
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Mon Jan-14-19 09:41 PM

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116. "it baffles me this got an actors reading like it was something special"
In response to Reply # 115


  

          

>I HATED this movie and all the more because it was a waste of
>Walton Goggins not to mention 70mm.
>
>

  

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rorschach
Member since Nov 10th 2004
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Tue Jan-15-19 04:30 PM

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117. "yes and yes...."
In response to Reply # 115


  

          

Walton Goggins and Sam Jackson are good in this film. But this film is still a bad film. My response to Hateful Eight would probably be slightly better if this were a play instead of a film. The whole idea of Tarantino making an old-school Western epic turned out to be totally superficial in its approach and it makes me look at some of his older films even more critically.

The only bright spot for me is that my appreciation for Death Proof grew as a result. That film has its flaws but is not an outright bad film. Hateful Eight is a bad film pretending to be a race movie/Western epic.
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