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Subject: "Fruitvale Station (Coogler, 2013)" Previous topic | Next topic
ZooTown74
Member since May 29th 2002
43582 posts
Sat May-11-13 05:12 PM

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"Fruitvale Station (Coogler, 2013)"
Sat May-11-13 05:13 PM by ZooTown74

  

          

Trailer

http://movies.yahoo.com/video/fruitvale-station-trailer-230035186.html

Michael B. Jordan (not to be confused with Lionel B.Richie) and Octavia Spencer

Supposed to be good

I wonder if there will be any "Oscar Grant wasn't a saint!" controversies stirred up by it

_________________________________________________________________________________
Voila, Magic.

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
finally a trailer
May 11th 2013
1
I don't think I can watch this movie
May 11th 2013
2
RE: Fruitvale Station (Coogler, 2013)
May 11th 2013
3
Saw this at LA Film Fest last night. (no spoilers)
Jun 18th 2013
4
RE: Saw this at LA Film Fest last night. (no spoilers)
Jun 21st 2013
7
He's like Denzel meets Will.
Jun 21st 2013
13
      That's too imprecise. Give me a white comparison.
Jun 21st 2013
18
           Good point.
Jun 21st 2013
22
                i'm liking the Jennifer Lawrence comparison
Jul 10th 2013
30
Weird. I didn't hear white people say this about 'Beautiful Mind'.
Jun 21st 2013
9
Yeah, there was a ton of discussion about this aspect of Beautiful Mind.
Jun 21st 2013
10
JFK, Finding Neverland, Kinsey all came with some controversy too
Jul 14th 2013
33
      LOL. Finding Neverland's controversy was being terrible
Jul 14th 2013
34
           LOL. You wrote some bullshit and are now mad
Jul 15th 2013
40
                o actually you were supporting my point, tho
Jul 15th 2013
43
                     Good save!
Jul 15th 2013
45
                          Glad to have you aboard Starship_Established
Jul 15th 2013
46
                               Again, take your time with these replies.
Jul 15th 2013
47
                                    Lol. Yeah, you mad.
Jul 15th 2013
49
                                         It's always funny when you pretend to care about social issues
Jul 15th 2013
50
                                              I'm a freedom fighter of the highest order.
Jul 15th 2013
51
Well, most didn't before the Oscars... but when Oscar season came...
Jun 21st 2013
11
      http://tinyurl.com/mxxkcy9
Jun 21st 2013
15
           I don't disagree at all.
Jun 21st 2013
16
                it might be dogshit for all I know. And I don't care about oscars.
Jun 21st 2013
17
                     Wasn't that an issue before it was even a movie?
Jun 21st 2013
21
See, I would argue that he doesn't think he knows he's going to die.
Jul 13th 2013
32
RE: Saw this at LA Film Fest last night. (no spoilers)
Aug 05th 2013
78
      I won't go into detail with my response...
Aug 05th 2013
80
           we're gonna have to start defining these terms
Aug 06th 2013
81
                Huh?
Aug 06th 2013
82
                     RE: Huh?
Aug 08th 2013
84
                          Response:
Aug 08th 2013
85
I'm going to see this in a theater... alone. Just saying.
Jun 18th 2013
5
^^^ what Fred Willard said
Jun 21st 2013
12
      *returns bottle of lotion and Kleenex*
Jun 21st 2013
20
He's innocent but not Oscar the Saint innocent like in the trailer.
Jun 21st 2013
6
Watch the fucking movie, jesus christ.
Jun 21st 2013
8
The trailer, like all trailers, removes complexity.
Jun 21st 2013
14
I crush on Melonie big time
Jun 21st 2013
19
I hope she gets some award season buzz.
Jun 21st 2013
23
Coogler is dat nigga.
Jul 09th 2013
24
I wouldn't go THIS far.
Jul 09th 2013
25
      I mean *spoilers*
Jul 09th 2013
26
           Coogler may have mentioned those things in the talkback...
Jul 09th 2013
27
                Fair enough dude. I'm not gonna argue that point. It was just the point ...
Jul 10th 2013
28
                     i'm with you a bit
Jul 15th 2013
36
                          Dude just seemed like a standard over-aggressive white cop
Jul 28th 2013
62
                               ^^^Exactly.
Jul 28th 2013
64
looking forward to seeing this and
Jul 10th 2013
29
A beautifully sad and powerful piece of work. (SPOILERS)
Jul 13th 2013
31
As a day
Jul 15th 2013
35
you're making me look up words again
Jul 15th 2013
38
Like what?
Jul 28th 2013
61
      word..
Jul 28th 2013
63
           Quoting what he actually said = a BIASED pro-black anti-white film!!
Jul 28th 2013
65
                Ike didn't say that at ALL smh yall be on some bullshit
Jul 29th 2013
67
                yeah, he didn't.
Dec 27th 2013
89
                there you go being a twat again. (c) keith sweat
Dec 28th 2013
93
saw it yesterday
Jul 15th 2013
37
Steven Boone's pre-verdict review for rogerebert.com is outstanding. (Sw...
Jul 15th 2013
39
another review? ...commentary? (pre verdict)
Jul 15th 2013
41
I also want to add, for posterity's sake, that Ol' Man Harv has an
Jul 15th 2013
42
crazy
Jul 15th 2013
44
while in the Arclight yesterday some white dude
Jul 15th 2013
48
      RE: while in the Arclight yesterday some white dude
Jul 19th 2013
56
so nationwide July 26,is that right?
Jul 16th 2013
52
correct
Jul 16th 2013
53
going to see it tonight
Jul 17th 2013
54
Good flick. Big fan of Jordan. He's next up definitely.
Jul 19th 2013
55
where do i begin
Jul 20th 2013
57
is this a limited release?
Jul 20th 2013
58
nationwide on the 30th
Jul 21st 2013
59
      or earlier according to above
Jul 21st 2013
60
outstanding and extremely powerful movie
Jul 28th 2013
66
Thoughts (SPOILERS)
Jul 29th 2013
68
Wow. Easily the least thoughtful movie review I've read all year.
Jul 29th 2013
69
RE: Wow. Easily the least thoughtful movie review I've read all year.
Jul 29th 2013
70
      LOL. You're an embarrassment.
Jul 29th 2013
71
           Lol why you sound so pressed?
Jul 30th 2013
72
                LMAO...you wanted Oscar robbing people and throwing up gang signs
Jul 30th 2013
73
                     I'm tapping out lol....
Jul 30th 2013
74
                          Fruitvale 2: Oscar comes back to life as a Blood who kills old ladies
Jul 30th 2013
76
RE: Thoughts (SPOILERS)
Aug 05th 2013
79
Nope...he wanted Oscar to rape the woman in the Deli
Aug 08th 2013
86
after watching it, this review makes me ill
Jan 15th 2014
95
I almost lost it...
Jul 30th 2013
75
This revolves highly around his relationship with his daughter?
Aug 01st 2013
77
Movie of the year so far.
Aug 06th 2013
83
there was a guy in there with his lil son
Aug 10th 2013
87
i loved this movie...the power of storytelling is in full display
Dec 25th 2013
88
where did you see it. i'm in LA ad can't find it any where
Dec 27th 2013
90
      the interwebz....unfortunately. Would have liked to spend money on this ...
Dec 27th 2013
91
           cool. in box link please
Dec 27th 2013
92
                n/m
Jan 15th 2014
96
Finally watched it.
Jan 15th 2014
94
RE: Fruitvale Station (Coogler, 2013)
Jan 31st 2014
97
he had it coming?
Mar 15th 2014
98
lol wut
Mar 15th 2014
99
Good grief, man.
Mar 15th 2014
100
you are a very stupid shitty person
Mar 16th 2014
101
      RE: eply to all
Mar 20th 2014
102
           The fuck?
Mar 20th 2014
103
                RE: The police kill people every single day
Mar 21st 2014
104

CherNic
Member since Aug 18th 2005
37156 posts
Sat May-11-13 07:43 PM

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1. "finally a trailer"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I'm sure this film will stir up controversy. I'm just happy it got so much Sundance love. And ecstatic for Michael B. Jordan

  

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nipsey
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Sat May-11-13 10:35 PM

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2. "I don't think I can watch this movie"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

It's gonna be too sad, knowing how it ends. Hopefully it gets some Oscar love.

____________________________________
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The DC Sniper
Member since Apr 13th 2010
2109 posts
Sat May-11-13 11:45 PM

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3. "RE: Fruitvale Station (Coogler, 2013)"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

>Trailer
>
>http://movies.yahoo.com/video/fruitvale-station-trailer-230035186.html
>
>Michael B. Jordan (not to be confused with Lionel B.Richie)
>and Octavia Spencer
>
>Supposed to be good
>
>I wonder if there will be any "Oscar Grant wasn't a saint!"
>controversies

Cant wait for this. Supposedly the movie does delve into his past life as a gang member, though.

"Capitalism will never fail because socialism will always be there to bail it out." - Ralph Nader

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
86672 posts
Tue Jun-18-13 12:27 PM

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4. "Saw this at LA Film Fest last night. (no spoilers)"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Cons:

- the film is almost unrelentingly heavyhanded with its foreshadowing. While some times Coogler nails it (a lingering shot on a train departing, an incident with a dog, etc), the movie does carry the vibe that Oscar knows he's going to his death. Every single interaction is punctuated with an "I love you"-- not a casual one, but a "this is the last time we're going to see each other" heavy one. This pounds the tragedy home with a sledgehammer throughout the run time, and while perhaps this is an issue that can't afford subtlety in execution, I believe I would've been far more emotionally attached had I not felt the consistency of the more blatant heartstring tugs.

- warning to those worried about this: while the movie does a GREAT job of showing Oscar's violent impetuous side and checkered past, it definitely goes out of its way to focus on the sainthood stuff, which will absolutely lead this film to controversy come awards season. Sure, he gets angry, but about reasonable things... and we see him help strangers, help a dog, help a pregnant woman, take steps towards turning his life around. Classic deification of a complex figure stuff. While this personally didn't bother me, as I felt the film's steps towards complexity were admirable enough especially for a first-time feature writer/director, it is easy to see how it will bother many, especially those who weren't digging the film.

Pros:

- for his first feature, Ryan Coogler really hits a home run with his direction. Several long takes, a firm grip on pacing.

- Coogler's script has things to gripe about, but there's far more to praise. His character development is gorgeous, from the leads down to the smallest character. We FEEL every person, which also helps create the world of the piece. Oakland lives and breathes here. The dialogue feels authentic, and there's plenty of humor to counterbalance the foreshadowing. While I complain about the heavyhandedness, there are also plenty of nice subtle touches-- the occasional cop car driving past creating tension, the variety of small ways in which race comes up in everyday conversation.

- Michael B. Jordan is a star. Nothing else to add. This won't be his defining performance, but it's a big leap forward.

- Melonie Diaz I fear will get overlooked in favor of Jordan and Spencer in the awards circuit. She might have been my favorite performance in the piece.

- Octavia Spencer will get an Oscar nom. Bank on it. Two hardcore "Oscar moments," maybe even three. A figure of strength and passion. Beautiful performance.

- the movie feels unfinished, in a good way. It ends on an eerily unresolved note, just as this criminal act was faced with no real justice at the end of the day. It's an unresolved issue in society to date, so the movie's lack of a "satisfying" ending was plenty satisfying to me.

This will be around come Oscar season. The LA premiere was a who's who in black Hollywood, and the people watching was phenomenal. The theater erupted with applause when Sidney Poitier and Forest Whitaker embraced each other. The ovation afterward was strong, Coogler is incredibly charming and humble, Spencer knows how to work a Q&A better than maybe anybody alive, and the awards circuit will eat these folks up. Especially considering the movie is quite good, surprisingly so for a first feature. I can't begrudge anyone who dislikes it for its heavyhandedness or its "deification" of Oscar, but I thought the film's humanity outweighed those elements at the end of the day. A solid 3 out of 4 kernels upon first viewing, and I'm interested to see how well it replays.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

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Benedict the Moor
Member since Dec 06th 2011
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Fri Jun-21-13 09:29 AM

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7. "RE: Saw this at LA Film Fest last night. (no spoilers)"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          


>- Michael B. Jordan is a star. Nothing else to add. This won't
>be his defining performance, but it's a big leap forward.
>


I BEEN saying he's the next Denzel. No other young black actor is on his level ATM.

◦◦◦
http://oi40.tinypic.com/2enp550.jpg
http://i.minus.com/iQBdCzZIftHZ2.gif

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Fri Jun-21-13 12:08 PM

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13. "He's like Denzel meets Will. "
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

He has that easy-jokey-charm that Will has, while also carrying the gravity and weight of Denzel simultaneously. It's hard to imagine that a young actor could be better than the two biggest black stars of the last twenty five years, but I honestly believe that with the right film choices, that's where he's headed.

This could be his Glory, the movie that gives him the cred necessary to start giving him his own studio vehicles. And I for one cannot wait.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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Fri Jun-21-13 02:55 PM

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18. "That's too imprecise. Give me a white comparison."
In response to Reply # 13


  

          


Being that there's a lot more white actors than black actors, there's
more options and I'm guessing one of them fits him better

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Fri Jun-21-13 04:54 PM

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22. "Good point. "
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

Honestly, I could go so far as to say young Cruise? Except he's even more charismatic. Cruise in Risky Business has charisma, but it's less showy, a little more stoic.

That's where the Will Smith thing comes in, Will's incredible ease with the one-liners, the little laughs at one's self-- I know that the lazy thing to do is to pair a black actor with another black actor, but I struggle to find a young white actor with that same level of ease that young Will had with jokes, smiles, etc. With being liked the second he strolls in front of you.

But then again, one could say young Will-- Fresh Prince Will-- had a certain amount of self-awareness, which Jordan is absolutely lacking. That honestly could bring me back to Cruise again. Cruise's ability to shift from genial mode to suddenly gravely serious and emotional is almost unparalleled in terms of "stars" imo. Jordan has that. Denzel has that too, hence bringing him up-- it's not just because they're black. It's because they have special talents that make them some of the biggest stars in the world. And I absolutely believe that Michael B. Jordan has that.

His presence is the type of presence guys want to befriend and girls want to fuck. That makes for a future star.

You know what this performance actually most reminds me of? Not even another actor-- Jennifer Lawrence in Winter's Bone. I watched that and thought, "Well, she'll be one of the biggest stars in the world soon enough." Gorgeous, emotional, funny, soulful. Michael B. Jordan hits that whole checklist.

I mean, I could mancrush on Jordan's future stardom even more. But I think I've raved enough here.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
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lfresh
Member since Jun 18th 2002
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Wed Jul-10-13 07:42 PM

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30. "i'm liking the Jennifer Lawrence comparison"
In response to Reply # 22


  

          



~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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Fri Jun-21-13 10:11 AM

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9. "Weird. I didn't hear white people say this about 'Beautiful Mind'. "
In response to Reply # 4
Fri Jun-21-13 10:17 AM by Orbit_Established

  

          

> Classic deification of a complex figure stuff.
>While this personally didn't bother me, as I felt the film's
>steps towards complexity were admirable enough especially for
>a first-time feature writer/director, it is easy to see how it
>will bother many, especially those who weren't digging the
>film.

Or about every single biopic about a white person that
focused on their positives or OUTRIGHT LIED.

If white people complain about "sainthood" I am whipping
out my dick and cumming with all kinds of double standard/cism
talk


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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bignick
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Fri Jun-21-13 12:00 PM

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10. "Yeah, there was a ton of discussion about this aspect of Beautiful Mind."
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

  

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mrshow
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33. "JFK, Finding Neverland, Kinsey all came with some controversy too"
In response to Reply # 10


          

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Sun Jul-14-13 09:59 PM

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34. "LOL. Finding Neverland's controversy was being terrible"
In response to Reply # 33


  

          


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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mrshow
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40. "LOL. You wrote some bullshit and are now mad"
In response to Reply # 34


          

Maybe take some time to think your point out before you hit that "post message" button.

  

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Orbit_Established
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Mon Jul-15-13 10:26 AM

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43. "o actually you were supporting my point, tho"
In response to Reply # 40


  

          


All those controversies came out around Oscar time

Fruitvale station's controversy hit before it came out

o yeah, I'm pretty nice with the synapses b

Sure is

Of Rice and Wrenz up in here

  

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mrshow
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45. "Good save!"
In response to Reply # 43


          

Not really

  

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Orbit_Established
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46. "Glad to have you aboard Starship_Established"
In response to Reply # 45


  

          


Proving my point, making my arguments for me, even if
you didn't know you were

I love it, bro, we got a good thing going here

Fuck it, gimme a hug
----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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mrshow
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Mon Jul-15-13 12:13 PM

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47. "Again, take your time with these replies. "
In response to Reply # 46


          

  

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Orbit_Established
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Mon Jul-15-13 12:39 PM

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49. "Lol. Yeah, you mad."
In response to Reply # 47


  

          


Why?

Fair question.

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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mrshow
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50. "It's always funny when you pretend to care about social issues"
In response to Reply # 49


          

Please continue!

  

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Orbit_Established
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Mon Jul-15-13 01:41 PM

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51. "I'm a freedom fighter of the highest order. "
In response to Reply # 50


  

          


I stand for truth, justice and shall maketh you
mad


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Fri Jun-21-13 12:02 PM

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11. "Well, most didn't before the Oscars... but when Oscar season came..."
In response to Reply # 9
Fri Jun-21-13 12:03 PM by Frank Longo

  

          

A Beautiful Mind's opponents ran one of the loudest and nastiest campaigns in the history of the award, shitting on precisely that: how they cut John Nash's anti-semitism, his affairs, his homosexual encounters, etc. In fact, it got so loud and nasty that I think it actually helped ABM win, because people starting feeling like the campaign was unfairly nasty.

I think if Fruitvale Station is not up for Best Picture that much of that talk will be relatively muted and/or restricted to the blogosphere (though more than A Beautiful Mind, cuz, yknow, black), but if it is, I fully expect a very nasty campaign shouting about deification of an "asshole thug." Despite the fact that Fruitvale Station does present several scenes showing Oscar had a predilection to violently lose his temper, and he was an anti-authoritarian prone to snap.

For better or worse, I'm not necessarily convinced it's a Best Pic lock. It's a lock for Octavia Spencer, maybe screenplay, maybe (hopefully) Michael B. Jordan. If the film catches on with the general public and becomes part of the zeitgeist, that would solidify its BP chances.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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15. "http://tinyurl.com/mxxkcy9"
In response to Reply # 11
Fri Jun-21-13 01:12 PM by Orbit_Established

  

          

http://tinyurl.com/mxxkcy9

It was fiction and it won because it was good.

Fruitvale should be able to be fiction and win because
its good.

Not saying it HAS to win. It might not deserve it.

But if it don't deserve it, that shouldn't be because
its fiction.

Anything else is a racist double standard.

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Fri Jun-21-13 01:29 PM

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16. "I don't disagree at all."
In response to Reply # 15
Fri Jun-21-13 01:35 PM by Frank Longo

  

          

I don't think it's good enough to win, but it's pretty goddamn good, certainly emotional, certainly relevant, and should fit squarely into the Academy's wheelhouse.

It's probably too "indie" to win the big one. Its ceiling of what it can accomplish is probably similar to other Grand Jury Sundance winners like Beasts of the Southern Wild, Precious, and Winter's Bone-- BP nom at best, realistically best chances reside in acting and screenplay categories. I don't think any Sundance winner has ever passed that level of Oscar accomplishment.

The biggest problem it'll face is the goddamn abundance of awards blogs and film crit blogs nowadays who need controversy to write about. They tried to stir up the inaccuracies in Argo, the dicey politics of Beasts, the inaccuracies/politics of Zero Dark Thirty (which was the front runner during critics awards)... since Harvey Weinstein is distributing Fruitvale Station, I fear certain circles will go see it with knives sharpened.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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Fri Jun-21-13 02:28 PM

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17. "it might be dogshit for all I know. And I don't care about oscars. "
In response to Reply # 16
Fri Jun-21-13 02:53 PM by Orbit_Established

  

          


I'm focused on the "he was a saint" issue.

The fact that we're ALREADY hearing this about Fruitvale, BEFORE
IT CAME OUT, tells me that it will fall prey to an unfair double standard.

If it don't, I'll admit that too


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Fri Jun-21-13 04:46 PM

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21. "Wasn't that an issue before it was even a movie?"
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

The same way Trayvon Martin got dragged through the mud, I sort of recall in casual reading about the real case that many writers sure liked to bring up Oscar's "spotty background" and "erratic demeanor" and what have you.

That may just be a societal thing even bigger than the movie, people wanting to somehow lessen the impact of a horrible murder if the victim was a young black man who liked hip hop, baggy jeans, hoodies, weed, etc. a.k.a. Middle White America's idea of a "thug."

I suppose that probably gets us more into GD territory.

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ZooTown74
Member since May 29th 2002
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Sat Jul-13-13 05:32 PM

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32. "See, I would argue that he doesn't think he knows he's going to die."
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

I just thought that he knows that change is coming, he just doesn't know what kind or how he's going to go about making those changes.

What Jordan's performance suggested to me, especially in the scene where he tells Sophina that he's "tired," is that he's literally tired of living the life he's living and is getting ready to make changes. Maybe that's a naive reading of things, but it didn't seem like someone who was so morose or thinking he was about to die would continue living his life during the day, interacting the way he does with his kid, his mom, and his sister, even though, granted, it's his mom's birthday...

_____________________________________________________________________________________________
But Zootown, black people and media, so...

  

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spirit
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Mon Aug-05-13 06:31 PM

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78. "RE: Saw this at LA Film Fest last night. (no spoilers)"
In response to Reply # 4
Mon Aug-05-13 06:32 PM by spirit

  

          

>Cons:
>
>- the film is almost unrelentingly heavyhanded with its
>foreshadowing. While some times Coogler nails it (a lingering
>shot on a train departing, an incident with a dog, etc), the
>movie does carry the vibe that Oscar knows he's going to his
>death.

Couldn't disagree more. In fact, I felt as if, even though the whole audience knows how the movie ends, Coogler did an excellent job of building up the tension to the inevitable climax. Grant says he wants to stay at home, initially he wants to drive instead of taking BART, etc. Even after Grant is shot, Coogler plays out the hospital scene in a way that people unfamiliar with the Grant case might actually think he had a shot at surviving. You'd have to supply at least five moments of alleged heavyhanded foreshadowing for me to give your claim any credence.

Every single interaction is punctuated with an "I love
>you"-- not a casual one, but a "this is the last time we're
>going to see each other" heavy one.

I think you need to see this film again. Every single interaction? No.

>- warning to those worried about this: while the movie does a
>GREAT job of showing Oscar's violent impetuous side and
>checkered past, it definitely goes out of its way to focus on
>the sainthood stuff

Not at all. Other than the dog scene, what made Oscar look like a "saint"? Is helping someone plan a fish fry grounds for sainthood? Helping a pregnant woman use a restroom? I thought these last two were just relatively normal acts of kindness (the former directly tied in to his former line of work and laid the groundwork for the audience sympathizing with his attempt to get his job back...sympathy Grant destroyed a few moments later by threatening his boss).

>Sure, he gets angry, but about
>reasonable things...

Um, Grant is shown threatening the lives of two people in this film, one his former boss in a completely irrational way (when the boss lays out very rational reasons why Grant can't get his old job back). The other person whose life he threatens is in front of his own mother! Hardly the kind of things a saint/goodie two shoes would do.

and we see him help strangers, help a
>dog, help a pregnant woman, take steps towards turning his
>life around. Classic deification of a complex figure stuff.

Not deification at all, for the foregoing reasons. Grant wasn't portrayed as a magical Negro here, but as a complex character with good traits and bad ones.

>- for his first feature, Ryan Coogler really hits a home run
>with his direction. Several long takes, a firm grip on
>pacing.

Yup.


>- Michael B. Jordan is a star. Nothing else to add.

And yup.

>
>- the movie feels unfinished, in a good way.

I didn't think it felt unfinished. How else should he have ended it? I thought it was a great ending for this particular story, especially closing on the daughter.

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Mon Aug-05-13 08:34 PM

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80. "I won't go into detail with my response..."
In response to Reply # 78


  

          

... but needless to say, you went into my post looking to counter negative comments, ignoring the fact that I couched them by saying they neither truly bothered me nor affected my overall enjoyment of the film.

I was saying I could see where others could criticize it. That's all. So... cool out with insisting I see the movie again so I can properly understand it, lol. I understood it and enjoyed it and was moved by it just fine.

Also, let me also say: THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH MELODRAMA/HEAVYHANDEDNESS. Nearly every drama in cinema history at least tiptoes into melodrama or heavyhandedness. If a film is well-written or deals with its themes well, melodrama/heavyhandedness isn't a problem; from there, it merely boils down to personal taste.

The injured dog scene IS melodrama, and it IS heavyhanded. The mother grieving her son and insisting aloud she sent him on that train IS melodrama, and it IS heavyhanded. There's also nothing wrong with either scene in my opinion.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
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spirit
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81. "we're gonna have to start defining these terms"
In response to Reply # 80


  

          

Because judging from what you wrote, it seems like you think "melodrama" and "drama" are synonyms. LOL.

ps: "Heavy-handed" has got to be the most subjective phrase used in modern film criticism.
___

http://www.newgoldenera.com

http://tinyurl.com/liberators2 - anarchy in two dimensions

  

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Frank Longo
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Tue Aug-06-13 02:30 PM

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82. "Huh?"
In response to Reply # 81
Tue Aug-06-13 02:31 PM by Frank Longo

  

          

Melodrama is sensation, focus on the height of emotional excitement, or explosion of proportion. I know quite precisely the difference between melodrama and drama.

There's plenty of lingering on the height of emotional excitement here, and the injured dog scene is the creation of a highly emotional moment solely for symbolic purposes. It'd be hard to argue that Fruitvale Station contains no melodrama.

Melodrama isn't camp, nor is it over-acting. I realize it has a negative connotation in layman terms, but as someone with theater background, I appreciate the proper utilization of melodrama. In fact, in theater and film, melodrama is often employed in order to make the characters' story reflect a larger issue in society. Which, again, one could absolutely say is happening here.

P.S. every phrase is the most subjective in modern criticism, because all criticism is enormously subjective.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
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spirit
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84. "RE: Huh?"
In response to Reply # 82


  

          


>
>P.S. every phrase is the most subjective in modern criticism,
>because all criticism is enormously subjective.

There are levels to film criticism that are more objective (whether or not a scene is lit well enough to see what's going on, whether blocking is well choreographed enough for the audience to easily see the action, etc).

As for melodrama/heavyhandiness (which aren't synonyms either, so it's unclear why you suddenly injected melodrama above when we were discussing "heavyhandiness"), without you being willing to even note which scenes are heavy-handed, this entire exchange is pointless. I figure if you say a film is "unrelentingly heavy-handed", you'd either be able to name four or five scenes to illustrate your point or you would admit that "unrelentingly" was an overstatement.

  

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Frank Longo
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Thu Aug-08-13 02:29 PM

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85. "Response:"
In response to Reply # 84
Thu Aug-08-13 02:31 PM by Frank Longo

  

          

>
>>
>>P.S. every phrase is the most subjective in modern
>criticism,
>>because all criticism is enormously subjective.
>
>There are levels to film criticism that are more objective
>(whether or not a scene is lit well enough to see what's going
>on, whether blocking is well choreographed enough for the
>audience to easily see the action, etc).

No, you're mixing up two things: objective criticism (I literally can't see what's going on) with subjective criticism (I can't see because of the lighting/editing/cinematography/blocking/etc).

Unless you literally can't see what's going on, as in it's off screen or in darkness, it's subjective. Some people would say that Bay's action is absolutely visible and clear as day. Others would say they can't see what's going on because it's too choppy. Subjective, both ways.

>As for melodrama/heavyhandiness (which aren't synonyms either,
>so it's unclear why you suddenly injected melodrama above when
>we were discussing "heavyhandiness"), without you being
>willing to even note which scenes are heavy-handed, this
>entire exchange is pointless. I figure if you say a film is
>"unrelentingly heavy-handed", you'd either be able to name
>four or five scenes to illustrate your point or you would
>admit that "unrelentingly" was an overstatement.

Heavyhandedness is an opinion. I could name several things, had I seen the movie in the last month and a half, which I haven't, and you could easily say "how is that heavyhanded?" And the loop continues. (Considering I named things I found heavyhanded in both my initial post about it and in my first reply to you, I find it odd that you want MORE examples.)

The real question: is heavyhandedness necessary to get the point across? In the wake of the Zimmerman verdict especially, it becomes clear that heavyhandedness is likely very necessary as so many people in this world simply don't get the point. To others, heavyhandedness in this scenario will feel like milking emotion superfluously, because it was earned prior to those types of moments. Some don't like a camera focusing in on suffering when we're already plenty aware of suffering. Some may feel, as I initially did, that there's no need to preach to the choir in such a manner-- however, after the Zimmerman verdict and the icy reminder that the choir is way smaller than I assume, I felt differently about the film's use of heavyhandedness.

I'll probably see the movie again in a week or two, so maybe I can follow up then, and maybe I'll feel like my initial adverb choice was an overstatement (also odd that you're hung up on one word of my review, as if "heavyhanded" isn't off-base but my adverb takes me into the realm of the absurd). I stand by how I felt in June though... because, well, it's how I felt. But I don't see how detail will help you at all. You don't find the film to be heavyhanded. When I saw it in June, I felt parts of it were quite heavyhanded. How will examples help when the root of my argument is based entirely in a subjective feeling with which you disagree?

I did a podcast recording (link below) where I discussed my feelings at the time. You can listen and see what I said, if I gave any more details. Other than that, I don't know what to tell you, since all I remember are the positive attributes and I've seen probably twenty+ movies since then, which makes my memory for detailed specifics fuzzy. Sorry.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
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ZooTown74
Member since May 29th 2002
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Tue Jun-18-13 07:15 PM

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5. "I'm going to see this in a theater... alone. Just saying. "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

_______________________________________________________________________________________
Im not posting in PTP

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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12. "^^^ what Fred Willard said"
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

jk

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ZooTown74
Member since May 29th 2002
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Fri Jun-21-13 03:52 PM

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20. "*returns bottle of lotion and Kleenex*"
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

_______________________________________________________________________________________
Im not posting in PTP

  

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81 DUN
Member since Feb 10th 2009
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Fri Jun-21-13 01:36 AM

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6. "He's innocent but not Oscar the Saint innocent like in the trailer."
In response to Reply # 0
Fri Jun-21-13 01:41 AM by 81 DUN

  

          

It looks like a good movie. But he seemed like more asshole than saint. I don't think they needed to sugar coat his image; he was done wrong. Handcuffed that officer was like 6 foot 4 200 plus out to do murder the video shows it.

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Fri Jun-21-13 10:09 AM

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8. "Watch the fucking movie, jesus christ. "
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

>It looks like a good movie. But he seemed like more asshole
>than saint. I don't think they needed to sugar coat his image;
>he was done wrong. Handcuffed that officer was like 6 foot 4
>200 plus out to do murder the video shows it.

The entire fucking point of the movie is that he doesn't
have to be perfect for the crime to be insidious and fucked
up, that we should stop judging the senselessness of murder
by how "expendable" someone is.


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Fri Jun-21-13 12:09 PM

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14. "The trailer, like all trailers, removes complexity."
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

The Short Term 12 and Spectacular Now trailers are also recent examples of that.

They're not trying to accurately depict the film, they're trying to put asses in seats.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

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TheRealBillyOcean
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Fri Jun-21-13 03:11 PM

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19. "I crush on Melonie big time"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Look forward to this.

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Fri Jun-21-13 04:55 PM

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23. "I hope she gets some award season buzz."
In response to Reply # 19


  

          

Her role isn't as showy as Jordan or Spencer, but she's equally terrific.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
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bwood
Member since Apr 03rd 2006
8614 posts
Tue Jul-09-13 04:53 PM

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24. "Coogler is dat nigga."
In response to Reply # 0


          

I've never met someone who during a Q&A stops it and walks up and down the asiles to shake hands and ask people their names. I got to talk to him and Michael after the screening. Did not know Michael was from Newark. I said I was from Jersey too that nigga was like what part and I said "Trenton" and that nigga's eyes lit the fuck up. Nigga was lie "Trenton, Camden, Newark it's all the same thing." My nigga recognizing.

As for the movie itself, I like that they show that Oscar was your average nigga. He wasn't demonized and he wasn't a saint. Coogler also humanized the one cop too (Kevin Durant). I fuck with this movie hard cause I see Oscar Grants happen all the time by bitch ass police.

But yea support this movie. We need more dope black filmmakers out here in the struggle.

------------------------------------------
America from 9:00 on: https://youtu.be/GUwLCQU10KQ

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Tue Jul-09-13 07:08 PM

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25. "I wouldn't go THIS far."
In response to Reply # 24


  

          


>Coogler also humanized the one cop too (Kevin Durant).

They give him one line like "the hell have you done?" or something, but he's pretty much Douche Cop from the second he comes on screen and, outside of one line when he realizes his ass is gonna get fried, he seems pretty unrepentant. Unless they've majorly changed the cut from when I saw it at LAFF.

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bwood
Member since Apr 03rd 2006
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Tue Jul-09-13 11:26 PM

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26. "I mean *spoilers*"
In response to Reply # 25


          

that cop was looking to bust in black heads that night and it went further than what he wanted it to go, but Coogler pointed out that after Oscar got shot he was the first cop to take the handcuffs off and hold his hand until paramedics arrived on the scene whereas apperently from what Coogler told us the other cop booked it and was MIA for a few days after. He took a life and brought a life into this world. Also, Coogler told us that the KD's cop and the officer were romantically involved.

------------------------------------------
America from 9:00 on: https://youtu.be/GUwLCQU10KQ

  

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Frank Longo
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Tue Jul-09-13 11:35 PM

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27. "Coogler may have mentioned those things in the talkback..."
In response to Reply # 26


  

          

... but in the heat of the moment, he absolutely seems like he's simply trying to cover his own ass after being a one-note douchebag the whole way.

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bwood
Member since Apr 03rd 2006
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Wed Jul-10-13 09:04 AM

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28. "Fair enough dude. I'm not gonna argue that point. It was just the point ..."
In response to Reply # 27


          

He was trying to present. He friend not to give a bias opinion in the film.

------------------------------------------
America from 9:00 on: https://youtu.be/GUwLCQU10KQ

  

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lfresh
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Mon Jul-15-13 12:49 AM

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36. "i'm with you a bit"
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

talked about it with the person i saw it with

and we kinda agreed
he meant to be a douche but not a killer douche
lol
apparently he, as a douchebag, had his line and killing the kid was that line
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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Sun Jul-28-13 08:44 AM

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62. "Dude just seemed like a standard over-aggressive white cop"
In response to Reply # 36


  

          


But not an evil person who wanted to kill anyone

Film captured that perfectly


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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bwood
Member since Apr 03rd 2006
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Sun Jul-28-13 02:59 PM

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64. "^^^Exactly."
In response to Reply # 62


          

And that's what my nigga Ryan Coogler was trying to point out.

------------------------------------------
America from 9:00 on: https://youtu.be/GUwLCQU10KQ

  

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DJ007
Member since Apr 06th 2003
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Wed Jul-10-13 05:43 PM

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29. "looking forward to seeing this and "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

love hearing the good feedback about it !
_____________________________________________________
"You can win with certainty with the spirit of "one cut". "Musashi Miyamoto

  

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ZooTown74
Member since May 29th 2002
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Sat Jul-13-13 05:25 PM

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31. "A beautifully sad and powerful piece of work. (SPOILERS)"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I haven't read anyone else's thoughts on this so if there's some overlap, it's just going to have to be there.

In my eyes, this is Best Picture material. Not only should Michael B. Jordan (again, not "Lionel B.Richie") be nominated for an Oscar, but so should the film itself, Octavia Spencer, as well as writer-director Ryan Coogler.

The genius stroke that Coogler chooses is to start the film with the actual footage of Oscar Grant getting shot in the back. It's a genius move because it gives the slice-of-life that follows a tragic inevitability. When you hear Oscar tell his girl that he's "tired," when you see him pour that fat sack of weed into the ocean, when you see and hear him tell his daughter what they're going to do "tomorrow" after she says she doesn't want him to leave her before the NYE outing that killed him, your heart sinks, because you know what's going to happen, and how tragic and disgusting it all ultimately is. Rather than assume that you know what happened, or that you saw the footage, Coogler puts it out there up-front, serving as a grim specter of sorts hovering over the story's proceedings. This story will not have a happy ending.

The other cool thing Coogler does is show Oscar mainly in small, intimate moments with the three women that mean the most to him: his girl, his moms, and his daughter. These moments serve as a nice contrast to the moments where we see Oscar ready to pop off at rivals, or at the store manager who fired him for being late, and show that while he's flawed, he's certainly a caring and thoughtful dude to those who were close to him.

Speaking of thoughtful, apparently there's some kind of controversy with a scene in the film regarding Oscar and a stray pit bull, which apparently didn't happen in real life... and once again highlights my annoyance with people who believe that fact-based movies should stick to the facts, and only the facts, dramatic license be damned.

To that end, don't expect 86 minutes of wall-to-wall action. This is a slice-of-life story where "nothing happens," just relatively quietly-observed moments in a life that is about to be cut tragically short.

Michael B. Jordan's performance is as outstanding as advertised. In the course of the movie he has to sell you on the notion that this man, an ex-con with fidelity and employment and financial and temper issue is still a decent person, a human with flaws but someone who appears ready to work through those flaws.

What a highly emotional and devastating movie. I'ma need Ol' Man Harv to start glad-handling and kissing babies to get this movie all the way to the Oscars. And yes, if you were to ask all involved, I guarantee you it matters, for at least a couple of reasons.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________
But Zootown, black people and media, so...

  

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IkeMoses
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35. "As a day"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

the movie veers into the improbable, with so many charged moments packed in.

But there's a rhythm to those charged moments that's more honest than mere mimesis.

I'm doubtful Oscar's last day was crammed with all that nonstop sweetness and explosiveness.

But I'll be damned if I didn't see a portrait of so many brothers I know in that hot and cold pattern.

The movie has flaws. Some blatant heartstring pulling and a torturous sequence after the shooting. But this ain't no OpEd piece disguised as a movie. Ain't no cookie cut message. This is honest, character-centered filmmaking, which is unfortunately rare in black film.

-30-
You know it's drama, but it sound real good.

  

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lfresh
Member since Jun 18th 2002
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38. "you're making me look up words again"
In response to Reply # 35


  

          

hawt
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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Sun Jul-28-13 08:43 AM

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61. "Like what? "
In response to Reply # 35


  

          


>The movie has flaws. Some blatant heartstring pulling

What? Him being a dad who does dad shit like pick up
his daughter from school?

Yeah, real biased there


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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The3rdOne
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63. "word.."
In response to Reply # 61


  

          

if the actual court records states if all he was saying at the time he was shot was "you shot me...i have a daughter" REPEATEDLY...then WHY in the blue hell wouldn't this be a main supporting theme of this movie???

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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65. "Quoting what he actually said = a BIASED pro-black anti-white film!!"
In response to Reply # 63


  

          

>if the actual court records states if all he was saying at
>the time he was shot was "you shot me...i have a daughter"
>REPEATEDLY...then WHY in the blue hell wouldn't this be a main
>supporting theme of this movie???

Yup

  

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CherNic
Member since Aug 18th 2005
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67. "Ike didn't say that at ALL smh yall be on some bullshit"
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astralblak
Member since Apr 05th 2007
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89. "yeah, he didn't. "
In response to Reply # 65


  

          

you be pulling shit out of the blue fucking sky A LOT my G, fall back

  

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shockzilla
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93. "there you go being a twat again. (c) keith sweat"
In response to Reply # 65


          

  

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lfresh
Member since Jun 18th 2002
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37. "saw it yesterday"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

the Trayvon verdict was a few hours later

the audience cried
i shed some tears

it was really well done
a light touch and a deft hand which i really appreciated
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Mon Jul-15-13 01:00 AM

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39. "Steven Boone's pre-verdict review for rogerebert.com is outstanding. (Sw..."
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http://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/fruitvale-station-2013

"Fruitvale Station" is about what we can imagine when we cast our gaze across the longstanding divides in this persistently, cancerously segregated American society. Like Paul Haggis' "Crash," it is an ambitious do-gooder project aimed at penetrating hardened hearts. Unlike "Crash," it has one solid, irrefutable piece of reality on which to anchor its fable-like teachable moments: The protagonist, Oscar Grant (the brilliant Michael B. Jordan), was a real 22-year-old man. The first thing we see in "Fruitvale" is the fatal moment that will lead to Oscar's death. Camera phone footage of Bay Area Rapid Transit cops beating Oscar and his friends on a subway platform ends with a gunshot.

The rest of the film dramatizes what Oscar was up to the day before he was killed, New Year's Eve 2009. I must paraphrase "The Elephant Man" to explain what it all amounts to: Oscar was not an animal. He was a human being. He had dreams and feelings. He cared for many people, and many people cared for him. His death left a giant crater in several lives.

For those of you who understand that young black men are humans, not beasts, it might sound like a silly project to undertake. But consider what pop culture gives us to go on. For every complicated, vulnerable, flawed but basically decent black male character or celebrity there are a hundred loud, imbecilic thugs. Ho'wood spent six decades emasculating and lobotomizing black male characters, then traded on some cheap, crime-based empowerment narratives via blaxploitation.

The past three decades were about depicting the refurbished, physically potent and powerful black man as a moral and intellectual weakling. When we did get a glimpse of black male intelligence, it tended to be the psychopathic "street smart" variety. The pop icons among rap artists, the ones who dine with the corporate elite, promote prison culture, ruthless self-interest and jewelry.

These images have fed racists, but they've also fed generations of black boys who learned that survival in a country that has little use for them means suppressing "soft" emotions and projecting a confidence that, in black skin, often comes off as arrogance. People who wanted to believe that blacks are inferior and black youth who took these images of aggressive inferiority as the underclass path to success joined hands to keep the dehumanization circus in business into the new century.

Judging by its haunted atmosphere, "Fruitvale Station" knows all that history, and knows better than to confront it, fret over it or wag its finger at it. Writer-director Ryan Coogler simply lets us sample Oscar's daily routine and pressures. We get so caught up in his world, there's little time to respond to the cultural cues that would indicate to a certain segment of the audience that they're dealing with what "Menace II Society" called "America's nightmare: young, black and don't give a fuck."

Oscar gives a fuck. He dresses like a homeboy and blasts his car stereo, but he is no thug. He's a father worrying about rent, bills and his daughter's schooling. He used to sell marijuana to get by, and losing his job at the local supermarket pushes him that much closer to dealing pot again. But he's been busted before, so another arrest could send him away from his daughter and her mother (the radiant Melonie Diaz) for a good while.

His explosive side stems more from the fact that he shares little of his mental burdens with anyone. At least the raging bull Jake LaMotta had the boxing ring. Oscar has few outlets, but his girlfriend and daughter and friends and family keep him "lifted up" — a term his mother (Octavia Spencer) uses when gathering them all to pray for Oscar to survive the bullet that pierced his lung.

"Fruitvale Station" reminded me of a social realist classic by Ken Loach ("Raining Stones," "The Wind that Shakes the Barley", "Land and Freedom"). Its volatile, deeply sensitive and charismatic protagonist is in the mold of Loach's working-class antiheroes. The only important differences are that Ryan Coogler's debut feature is set in the US, not the UK, and his hero is black. If these differences don't sound like much, try to imagine Trayvon Martin as a white kid. Would there be as many commentators speculating that Trayvon's attitude caused his own death at the hands of the man who stalked him with a gun? Or let's imagine the new cult classic, Nicholas Winding Refn's "Drive," with Michael K. Williams in the lead role as a stoic, brutally violent protector, instead of blond sex symbol Ryan Gosling.

In many ways, "Fruitvale Station" is as green and earnest as "Boyz N the Hood," a debut film made by another alumnus of Coogler's alma mater, USC: John Singleton. Yet its ambition is closer to that of the most important American indie film in at least a decade, Patrick Wang's "In the Family," a must-see that's now available on DVD. It's about a gay father (played by Wang) who's cruelly separated from his son after his partner, the boy's biological father, dies. The film becomes something much grander than a woe-is-he political statement as Wang slowly, stealthily brings various strangers into the picture. These folks, inscrutable and potentially hostile at first, become the protagonist's passionate allies, revealing useful talents and resources we didn't expect. It's all because Wang's character draws them in with his sunny, embracing, fair-minded spirit.

It's the same spirit that Oscar brings to encounters with those who don't automatically write him off. The genius of Jordan's performance, and the sense of portent that Coogler builds around it, is in showing how aware Oscar was that his freedom and even his life could depend on overturning a superficial, unfair impression.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

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lfresh
Member since Jun 18th 2002
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41. "another review? ...commentary? (pre verdict)"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2013/07/-i-fruitvale-station-i-s-insight-oscar-grants-life-was-complex-his-death-was-tragic/277652/


Fruitvale Station's Insight: Oscar Grant's Life Was Complex; His Death Was Tragic

The film portrays the man killed in the 2009 BART shooting as a full human being—a portrayal that, as the the Trayvon Martin trial reminds us, remains sadly needed.

The shaky iPhone video ran hundreds of times on local and national newscasts in the first months of 2009, but its impact feels new and even bigger when viewed on a movie screen. The image is poor and the sound is distorted by the many raised, overlapping voices, but this much is clear: The BART cops pull one of the young black men from the group, put him on his stomach, and cuff him. And then one of the officers pulls out his pistol and shoots him dead. The sound of that gunshot packs a terrifying jolt, and the screen cuts to black.

In that moment, it seems wrong to think of anything but Oscar Julius Grant III, the man whose life was so brutally taken. But upon seeing it in Fruitvale Station, my mind nevertheless leapt to Sanford, Florida, where the aural counterpart, tapes of 911 calls capturing the final moments of Trayvon Martin's life, have been unspooling for the past three weeks. In that courtroom, and in the coverage of the events within it, a young black man's death has prompted speculation, assumptions, and judgment about his life. And in theaters across the country, Fruitvale Station considers those some questions about Oscar Grant.

Over the 90 minutes that follow the iPhone clip that opens the film, writer/director Ryan Coogler dramatizes the day that turned out to be Grant's last. Yet this is not merely a mournful docudrama; it's a film of keenly observed behavior and subtle domestic details, one that offers a bravely complex portrait of a man unjustly killed. Grant (played by Michael B. Jordan) is 22, living with his girlfriend Sophina (Melonie Diaz) and their daughter. He's hot tempered, has trouble with fidelity, and deals marijuana--though his New Year's resolution is to quit slinging and go straight. It won't be easy. He lost his job at a grocery store weeks earlier (due to chronic lateness) and hasn't worked up the nerve yet to tell Sophina. Instead, he goes back to the store and begs his old boss for his job back. When his request is refused, he loses his cool: He yells at, and even threatens, the man who could help him.

In that one scene, Coogler (and the excellent Jordan) tactfully conveys how Oscar's rage switches on and how quickly it gets out of his control. It's a foreboding turn of events, since we already know about his death--have already seen it, even--and thus presume that that anger will return to haunt him. But the entire sequence around that blow-up showcases the duality of his person. Mere moments earlier, while visiting a friend at the butcher's counter, he helps a customer looking for help buying supplies for a fish fry by putting her on the phone with his grandma for tips--and he doesn't even work there anymore. He's capable of being both kind and brutal, both honorable and troubling, both guilty and innocent.

Coogler's willingness to acknowledge Grant's flaws, to resist the urge to cast him as a martyr and instead paint the portrait of a troubled, sometimes "bad" guy, is what makes Fruitvale Station special--and challenging as drama and as commentary. That's why some early responses to the film are so puzzling. I'm not usually one to read or put much stock in IMDb reviews, particularly in advance of a film's release, but it's worth noting that as of this writing, nearly half of the user blurbs are not only negative, but grossly inaccurate, bafflingly charging the film with "whitewashing" the story of "Saint Oscar." "We elevate another hoodlum to the status of martyr," goes one typical review. Did these people see the same film?

The answer is, probably not. If they did, they perhaps couldn't abide the film's portrayal of a young black man as a complex human being--you're either a thug or a saint, good or bad, black or white (sometimes literally), with no shades of grey between. But this is not a phenomenon unique to Fruitvale Station. In the weeks and months following the shooting of Trayvon Martin, the eagerness with which the pro-Zimmerman faction of the populace and media leapt breathlessly upon any scrap of negative information about his 17-year-old victim--he smoked pot! He talked like a thug on Twitter! He flipped off the camera in pictures! He may have stolen jewelry! "He was no angel," I was assured confidently by a family member, information she presumably attained from all the time they spent hanging out together. But even if every vile posthumous rumor that attached itself to Martin was true, even if he was a pot-dealing, thugged-out thief, what then? Is tweeting like Tupac a death-penalty offense?

It would be easy to presume that such bombshells gave those who secretly cheered Martin's murder justification for their bloodlust, but I can't claim to know what goes on in their hearts in any more than I can claim to know why someone who either did or didn't see Fruitvale Station would proclaim it a whitewash. But what seems certain, in both instances, is that there are those who refuse to acknowledge the possibility that these young black men could be both imperfect and undeserving of their deaths. George Zimmerman may well be acquitted in Martin's murder. Oscar Grant's killer, Officer Johannes Mehserle, is currently free after serving less than two years. In both cases, neither the men who killed them nor their apologists saw beyond Grant and Martin's sweatshirts and black skin to the living, breathing, complicated and troubled human beings inside. Fruitvale Station sees that person, for all of his flaws, and mourns him.
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

  

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ZooTown74
Member since May 29th 2002
43582 posts
Mon Jul-15-13 10:18 AM

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42. "I also want to add, for posterity's sake, that Ol' Man Harv has an"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

impeccable sense of timing

Of course, he and The Weinstein Company had no idea that the events of this past weekend would dovetail so nicely with the limited release of this movie when they moved its release date up, but it's an incredible coincidence...

__________________________________________________________________________________________
But Zootown, black people and media, so...

  

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lfresh
Member since Jun 18th 2002
92696 posts
Mon Jul-15-13 10:31 AM

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44. "crazy"
In response to Reply # 42


  

          

>impeccable sense of timing
>
>Of course, he and The Weinstein Company had no idea that the
>events of this past weekend would dovetail so nicely with the
>limited release of this movie when they moved its release date
>up, but it's an incredible coincidence...


crazy coincidence
like hours later for me
=(
it hurt too much
i had to bow out at a certain point
~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

  

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IkeMoses
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48. "while in the Arclight yesterday some white dude"
In response to Reply # 42


  

          

was saying Weinstein probably popped champagne when he heard the verdict.

he might be right, but i still felt like bangin on him.

-30-
You know it's drama, but it sound real good.

  

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SankofaII
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56. "RE: while in the Arclight yesterday some white dude"
In response to Reply # 48


  

          

>was saying Weinstein probably popped champagne when he heard
>the verdict.
>
>he might be right, but i still felt like bangin on him.

you should have took dude out behind the Arclight and double tapped him in the chest, execution style.

ridiculous.

Get Out the Room
https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/get-out-the-room/id525657893

Some of y'all need this in your life: http://www.psychology.com

  

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DJ007
Member since Apr 06th 2003
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Tue Jul-16-13 07:46 AM

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52. "so nationwide July 26,is that right?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


_____________________________________________________
"You can win with certainty with the spirit of "one cut". "Musashi Miyamoto

  

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lfresh
Member since Jun 18th 2002
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53. "correct"
In response to Reply # 52


  

          


~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

  

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CherNic
Member since Aug 18th 2005
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Wed Jul-17-13 08:11 AM

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54. "going to see it tonight"
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Solaam
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Fri Jul-19-13 01:56 AM

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55. "Good flick. Big fan of Jordan. He's next up definitely."
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And the director is 26? Yikes.

PS3/Xbox ID: BackDo Do
Wii: Solaam

  

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Crash Bandacoot
Member since May 13th 2003
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Sat Jul-20-13 01:31 PM

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57. "where do i begin"
In response to Reply # 0
Sat Jul-20-13 01:36 PM by Crash Bandacoot

          

went to see this in a downtown dc theatre first thing this morning and
came out feeling empty, sad, and angry. this wasn't just some made
for the screen movie, it occurs in real life all of the time. first
thing i notice when i come out of the theatre are hoards of yts with
seemingly not a care in the world...a self-society-imposed utopia.
it's nice that they don't have to worry about dying in the same manner
that oscar grant did -- when they die, it will not because of "that".


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"It is better to be silent and thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt"

  

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southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
90059 posts
Sat Jul-20-13 03:35 PM

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58. "is this a limited release?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

only showing in two "near by" theaters
the ritz which is an expensive low key bougie theater that shows shit like jiro dreams of sushi (aka black ppl don't know about it and don't go there)
and a lowes in NJ
smh

~~~~~~

  

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Noodity
Member since Jul 11th 2011
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Sun Jul-21-13 11:52 AM

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59. "nationwide on the 30th"
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*poof*

  

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Noodity
Member since Jul 11th 2011
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Sun Jul-21-13 12:21 PM

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60. "or earlier according to above"
In response to Reply # 59


          

*poof*

  

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SankofaII
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Sun Jul-28-13 09:10 PM

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66. "outstanding and extremely powerful movie"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

There's something wrong with this world if Michael B. Jordan, Octavia Spencer, and Melonie Diaz (folk claim she doesn't pop here but she does just as much as Spencer) don't end up in the oscar race talk this season.

Really.

At nearly 90 minutes, this biopic did more (with less) and was way better written than many that have ended up in theaters for a long time (my opinion).

A must see for EVERYONE...seriously, it is.

Get Out the Room
https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/get-out-the-room/id525657893

Some of y'all need this in your life: http://www.psychology.com

  

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ODotSoHot
Member since Apr 02nd 2013
1171 posts
Mon Jul-29-13 04:35 PM

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68. "Thoughts (SPOILERS)"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I'll preface this by saying I thought the movie was incredibly moving and thought-provoking; however, for me, it left much to be desired.

I didn't really feel 'invested' until the last 20 minutes of the film. The first hour seemed like the same beat OVER AND OVER again -- Oscar being well-intentioned with the occasional flash of anger. We get it...he's a good guy...now show us something else! It spent too much time trying to make him into a saint. I am definitely a proponent of giving the audience a reason to root for the main character, but come the fuck on...there were like 30 of 'em. They might as well have called the flick, "Blake Snyder Presents: Oscar Saves The Cat". We see him inviting his daughter into his bed, giving her a fruit rollup even though mommy says no, wishing his mom a happy birthday 4 times, lending his sister money even though he's broke, helping a white stranger plan a fish-fry, tending to a wounded dog, dumping a fat sack of weed in the ocean, racing his daughter after daycare, helping her brush her teeth, jump-starting a new years eve party on a train, getting an asshole store owner to help a pregnant woman, etc. A day in the life of Ghandi wouldn't have been that fuckin' charitable. It was all too heavy-handed and saccharine.

People are saying that Coogler managed to capture the duality of his nature -- if by briefly alluding to an affair and showing him snapping on a racist convict in jail is supposed to do that, I guess. I would have liked to have seen more of his checkered past and his struggles playing a bigger role here. How the affair affected his relationship with Sephina -- maybe she still doesn't trust him, but is trying to work it out for their daughter, etc. Maybe he tries to get 'fish-fry' girl's number after he helps her? How'd he end up in jail in the first place? Making him into a martyr simplifies and maybe even overlooks the real issue here -- the incident was an injustice by any fuckin' standard. Whether or not the kid was an unfaithful and temperamental drug dealer or is irrelevant...the shit was WRONG.

I thought Coogler really came into his own once the action moved to the train station. The performances, staging, cinematography were all excellent -- gritty and real. Even though you knew what was coming, it still felt incredibly tense and heart-breaking. Michael B. Jordan definitely embodied the fear and anger that anyone who has been accosted by police can relate to. When we got to the hospital, Octavia Spencer was impeccable. Hopefully, she gets an Oscar nom. She deserves it.

I also thought Coogler was good in the subtler moments. The actual birthday party (his uncles talking football), him buying the 'white card' after his sister told him not to, his mom telling him to take the train so he'd be 'safe', her refusing to hug him at the jail and then being unable to give him one after he died, etc. Hopefully, he learns that less is often more and audiences are smart enough to pick up on things like that.

Technically, there were small things to gripe about (missing focus from tim to time, bad overdubbing, bland production design, etc.), but overall it didn't distract too much from the film's major theme. Also, the cine's lens captured the Bay area beautifully.

All in all, it was a strong showing for a first-time feature film writer/director, and I think Coogler will only improve with time. Definitely, worth a watch, but as I said earlier...there were some missed opportunities and room for growth.

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Mon Jul-29-13 08:02 PM

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69. "Wow. Easily the least thoughtful movie review I've read all year. "
In response to Reply # 68
Mon Jul-29-13 08:06 PM by Orbit_Established

  

          



You'll probably regret posting this, because you actually
missed the entire point of the film, and I'd give you a pass
if you didn't write so much. I'm almost offended, but not
quite.


>I didn't really feel 'invested' until the last 20 minutes of
>the film. The first hour seemed like the same beat OVER AND
>OVER again -- Oscar being well-intentioned with the occasional
>flash of anger. We get it...he's a good guy...now show us
>something else! It spent too much time trying to make him
>into a saint. I am definitely a proponent of giving the
>audience a reason to root for the main character, but come the
>fuck on...there were like 30 of 'em. They might as well have
>called the flick, "Blake Snyder Presents: Oscar Saves The
>Cat". We see him inviting his daughter into his bed, giving
>her a fruit rollup even though mommy says no, wishing his mom
>a happy birthday 4 times, lending his sister money even though
>he's broke, helping a white stranger plan a fish-fry, tending
>to a wounded dog, dumping a fat sack of weed in the ocean,
>racing his daughter after daycare, helping her brush her
>teeth, jump-starting a new years eve party on a train, getting
>an asshole store owner to help a pregnant woman, etc. A day
>in the life of Ghandi wouldn't have been that fuckin'
>charitable. It was all too heavy-handed and saccharine.


For the love of god, what the fuck are you talking about?

You just walked directly into a minefield.

If you think that those acts are heavy-handed, you're probably
afraid of black men. That is, like, the exact point Coogler
was trying to make with the acts.

The acts *appear* angelic because we all HATE black men;
if you look at the acts in and of themselves, they are basic
things that regular people do.

Oscar didn't save anyone's life. He didn't didn't donate to
any charity. He did regular, basic, people shit.

Being a dad?

Helping a customer?

Being a good son?


LOL.


Really overdone isn't it?

Oscar's dying words were about his daughter; to build the
story around that relationship is not only perfectly reasonable
for a fictional movie, it was perfectly appropriate given the
FACTS.

Again: if you think that's extra, you probably hate black
people, and are almost certainly afraid of black men.

(even if you are one).


>People are saying that Coogler managed to capture the duality
>of his nature -- if by briefly alluding to an affair and
>showing him snapping on a racist convict in jail is supposed
>to do that, I guess. I would have liked to have seen more of
>his checkered past and his struggles playing a bigger role
>here. How the affair affected his relationship with Sephina
>-- maybe she still doesn't trust him, but is trying to work it
>out for their daughter, etc.

That's obvious. They are a young couple, struggling with
young couple shit. We know what their relationship is like
5 minutes into the film. The actors are excellent and fill
in the blanks nicely. They are young and dumb. Both love their
daughter. Per usual, the woman is more advanced the man. Its
all spelled out, like, within 5 minutes.


Just like you when you were 22 and me when I was 22 and Obama
when he was 22.


Maybe he tries to get 'fish-fry'
>girl's number after he helps her?

That would have done nothing for the story.

The point is that not every 22 year old black men is trying
to fuck *every* woman. 22 year old black men have regular
conversations with white women. That is the EXACT reason
Coogler put that in.

Again -- that you missed the point proves Coogler's point
about how we see black men.


>How'd he end up in jail in
>the first place?

Doing dumbass 20 year old shit, like a lot of young men.

Same way he was acting like a dumbass kid the night he
was killed.

Making him into a martyr simplifies and
>maybe even overlooks the real issue here -- the incident was
>an injustice by any fuckin' standard. Whether or not the kid
>was an unfaithful and temperamental drug dealer or is
>irrelevant...the shit was WRONG.

No, it doesn't. And that you call him a "martyr" means
you missed the point:

The film isn't even political. Its not about police brutality.

Its about a kid trying to get on his feet; its a fictional
story based on true events, about a guy who makes mistakes,
but is trying, and it is the *trying* rather than the deeds
themselves that make the death so unfortunate.


Sounds like someone has some soul searching to do.




----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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ODotSoHot
Member since Apr 02nd 2013
1171 posts
Mon Jul-29-13 09:05 PM

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70. "RE: Wow. Easily the least thoughtful movie review I've read all year. "
In response to Reply # 69
Mon Jul-29-13 09:12 PM by ODotSoHot

  

          

>You'll probably regret posting this, because you actually
>missed the entire point of the film, and I'd give you a pass
>if you didn't write so much. I'm almost offended, but not
>quite.


Nothing to regret. Just my humble opinion. I understand the point perfectly well -- it was hard to miss with the heavy-handedness.


>If you think that those acts are heavy-handed, you're probably
>
>afraid of black men. That is, like, the exact point Coogler
>was trying to make with the acts.


Every beat in the movie was the same up until the shooting. I'd have the same problem if the story was about a white, black, yellow, or green person. It was too much.


>The acts *appear* angelic because we all HATE black men;
>if you look at the acts in and of themselves, they are basic
>things that regular people do.


I have no idea what you're talking about.


>He did regular, basic, people shit.
>
>Being a dad?


We get the point that he loves his daughter within the first 5 minutes of the movie. He invites her to sleep with them when she gets scared. Then he gives her a fruit rollup even though her mom said no. Then he hugs her and plays with her. Then he races her in slow motion and jumps on the car. Then he helps her brush her teeth. Then he has a talk about how it's safe inside and nothing bad is going to happen, etc. It's the same damn moment over and over again. You remove 3 of those scenes and we still arrive at the same conclusion...Oscar loves his daughter.

It's like Michael Pena's character in 'Crash'. He has one powerful interaction with his daughter at the beginning. We immediately get his love for her. Haggis didn't have to show him dancing with her, giving her hugs, picking her up from school, buying her candy, etc. to get that across. That's all I'm saying.


>Helping a customer?


That scene was ONLY there to make him more endearing to audiences.


>Being a good son?


That storyline goes like this...text message at midnight wishing her happy birthday, phone call the next day to wish her a happy birthday, getting a birthday card to wish her happy birthday, buying the crab for her birthday, blowing off plans with friends so that he can go to her birthday party, helping her wash dishes because...'it's her birthday'. Same beat over and over again.


>Really overdone isn't it?


YESSSSSSSSS!!!!


>Oscar's dying words were about his daughter; to build the
>story around that relationship is not only perfectly
>reasonable
>for a fictional movie, it was perfectly appropriate given the
>FACTS.


Don't disagree with this at all. It was the execution that left something to be desired. Every time they were together on screen, it felt like a rehash of a previous scene.


>Again: if you think that's extra, you probably hate black
>people, and are almost certainly afraid of black men.
>
>(even if you are one).


Cool story.


>Maybe he tries to get 'fish-fry'
>>girl's number after he helps her?
>
>That would have done nothing for the story.


It could have made the character more complex. Even with all his efforts to do right, he's still not immune to the trappings of being a 22 year old man. He likes women...just like me at 22, you at 22, and Barack at 22. Even if you have something good at home, you still might be inclined to see what else is out there. It would have added to the motivation of expending so much effort to help a complete stranger...and it might've added a little more drama/comedy to their interaction on the train when he and Sephina run into her.


>The point is that not every 22 year old black men is trying
>to fuck *every* woman. 22 year old black men have regular
>conversations with white women. That is the EXACT reason
>Coogler put that in.


No, the EXACT reason he put it in is to show that Oscar is a great guy -- going out of his way to help a complete stranger.


>Again -- that you missed the point proves Coogler's point
>about how we see black men.


If Quentin Tarantino did the same shit, you'd have an essay about how stupid it was.


>And that you call him a "martyr" means
>you missed the point:
>
>The film isn't even political. Its not about police
>brutality.


K.


>Its about a kid trying to get on his feet; its a fictional
>story based on true events, about a guy who makes mistakes,
>but is trying, and it is the *trying* rather than the deeds
>themselves that make the death so unfortunate.


Agreed; however, I still think there are more effective and subtle ways to get all that across.


>Sounds like someone has some soul searching to do.


Excellent post. Will read again.

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Mon Jul-29-13 10:29 PM

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71. "LOL. You're an embarrassment. "
In response to Reply # 70
Mon Jul-29-13 10:33 PM by Orbit_Established

  

          

>Nothing to regret. Just my humble opinion. I understand the
>point perfectly well -- it was hard to miss with the
>heavy-handedness.

You wanna know what heavy-handed is?

You wanting Oscar to trying to pull the white woman's
number to make some grand point about his imperfections,
all to make a grander point that its sad when assholes
die too.

LOL-

That's heavy-handed.

This movie was not.

The only problem is that you don't know any
black people, at all, and almost certainly don't
know any in Oscar's demographic. This is why you
want Oscar to smoke crack and smack his girlfriend
earlier in the day, so that it seems more 'realistic'.

The exact point of the film is that what you saw isn't
any further from reality than this 'realism' that you
want-

You want Oscar doing more negative things, because that
is who you and America believe Oscar is.

And that you think his deeds qualify as saintly means
that you can't fathom someone in his demographic authoring
those acts (none of which are even that great).

That's the point.


>Every beat in the movie was the same up until the shooting.
>I'd have the same problem if the story was about a white,
>black, yellow, or green person. It was too much.

What was too much?

Name one thing that the protagonist did that was REALLY
out of the ordinary, as in, Ghandi-good? Zero. Zilch. He did
basic shit that regular people do.

THAT YOU FIND it heavy-handed proves Coogler's point that
you don't know anything about black men.


>We get the point that he loves his daughter within the first 5
>minutes of the movie.

LMAO!!!!!

So that's enough?

Oscar Grant DIED TALKING ABOUT HIS DAUGHTER, sparky.

That was the MOST important thing to him.

That the film focused on it is actually ACCURATE.

He wasn't running a fucking orphanage; he was doing regular
people shit and taking care of *his* daughter.

Just like lots of young black men who have spent time
behind bars.


He invites her to sleep with them when
>she gets scared. Then he gives her a fruit rollup even though
>her mom said no. Then he hugs her and plays with her. Then
>he races her in slow motion and jumps on the car. Then he
>helps her brush her teeth. Then he has a talk about how it's
>safe inside and nothing bad is going to happen, etc. It's the
>same damn moment over and over again. You remove 3 of those
>scenes and we still arrive at the same conclusion...Oscar
>loves his daughter.



Ummmm.


That's kinda what being a FATHER is like.

That's sorta what the point was.

I'm confused.


>>Helping a customer?
>
>
>That scene was ONLY there to make him more endearing to
>audiences.

LOL -

He didn't rescue a baby from a burning building. He helped
a woman cook her catfish. That's regular people shit.

Not to mention its New Year's Day and people are often
upbeat and hopeful.

You seem to have missed that part -- the TIMING of the
event is HUGE -- its a reflective time when people are
trying to start over and do the right thing.

Couple that with his mother's birthday and you have a
confused dude trying to turn it around. Hell, I'm a pretty
lousy person all in all and I'm REALLY nice to everyone around
New Year's Day


>That storyline goes like this...text message at midnight
>wishing her happy birthday, phone call the next day to wish
>her a happy birthday, getting a birthday card to wish her
>happy birthday, buying the crab for her birthday, blowing off
>plans with friends so that he can go to her birthday party,
>helping her wash dishes because...'it's her birthday'. Same
>beat over and over again.


LOL -

Its his mother's birthday. The day was built around his
mother's birthday. He was buying crab and cards and other
stuff....for his mother's birthday. That's why the film kept
revisiting...his mother's birthday.

What? You wanted him to walking into his mother's birthday
and rob everyone? Would that have been less contrived?

LMAO


>Don't disagree with this at all. It was the execution that
>left something to be desired. Every time they were together
>on screen, it felt like a rehash of a previous scene.

Ummm.


That's what being a father to an adorable little girl is
actually like.


Maybe you're actually just not very bright. If you're not,
tell me now and I'll back off.



>It could have made the character more complex. Even with all
>his efforts to do right, he's still not immune to the
>trappings of being a 22 year old man.

Well, no shit. But trying to book the white girl doesn't make
him more "complex." It just makes him fit YOUR image of what
a black man is supposed to do. That you wanted him to do that
proves that you have hangups of your own.

>He likes women...just
>like me at 22, you at 22, and Barack at 22.

Did you try to book *every* woman at 22?

No. Neither did Barack.

Me? Most, but not all.


> Even if you have
>something good at home, you still might be inclined to see
>what else is out there.

Not all the time, every time. Sometimes you're just a person
stopping by your job to say hi to your boy and decide to help
someone. Its actually not far fetched. Its only far fetched if
you think young black men are hyper sexual beings who can't
escape the trappings of every available vagina.


It would have added to the motivation
>of expending so much effort to help a complete stranger...and
>it might've added a little more drama/comedy to their
>interaction on the train when he and Sephina run into her.

You've actually never helped a stranger that way?

What kind of dickhead are you?


>No, the EXACT reason he put it in is to show that Oscar is a
>great guy -- going out of his way to help a complete
>stranger.


That isn't a *great* deed. Its a normal, decent human being
deed. Geez, bro, up your expectations for Homo sapiens. That
isn't a "great deed" by any definition.

I mean, I'm actually an asshole in real life and do shit like
that all the time.


>If Quentin Tarantino did the same shit, you'd have an essay
>about how stupid it was.


Glad you brought that up.

Talk about "heavy-handed"-

Tarantino would have made this a revenge movie with
tribute shots and nods everywhere.

  

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ODotSoHot
Member since Apr 02nd 2013
1171 posts
Tue Jul-30-13 12:07 AM

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72. "Lol why you sound so pressed?"
In response to Reply # 71
Tue Jul-30-13 12:08 AM by ODotSoHot

  

          

>You wanna know what heavy-handed is?
>
>You wanting Oscar to trying to pull the white woman's
>number to make some grand point about his imperfections,
>all to make a grander point that its sad when assholes
>die too.


That's a little hypocritical, no? They can show how 'sweet', 'kind', and 'loving' he is OVER AND OVER, but spending a little more time with his imperfections is too much to ask? Isn't Coogler being praised for capturing the duality of the character? I don't think it's an unfair request.

Take Mickey Rourke in 'The Wrestler'....another character who is 'trying to get back on his feet'. Aronofsky didn't spend the first hour of that flick trying to paint him as a boyscout. We got the good and bad...probably more bad than good. But that's okay...because people are complex animals. We still loved that character at the end of the day.


>The only problem is that you don't know any
>black people, at all, and almost certainly don't
>know any in Oscar's demographic.


I'm a 26 year old black man, born and raised in Compton, CA. I am Oscar's demographic.


>This is why you
>want Oscar to smoke crack and smack his girlfriend
>earlier in the day, so that it seems more 'realistic'.


I never said I had a problem with the 'realism'...my issue is that the realism isn't all that cinematic.

As for smoking crack and smacking his girlfriend...those are your own projections. I never said anything close to that.


>You want Oscar doing more negative things, because that
>is who you and America believe Oscar is.


That's who everybody is. It has nothing to do with race, background, social standing, etc. Nobody is all good all the time. 90% of the film is Oscar being a good samaritan and Dudley Do-Right. FOR ME, it got old and started feeling like blatant manipulation.


>And that you think his deeds qualify as saintly means
>that you can't fathom someone in his demographic authoring
>those acts (none of which are even that great).


That's not what it means at all. Unless it's a movie about Jesus of Nazareth, I don't want to spend an hour watching ANYONE do nothing but good deeds. It got redundant.


>THAT YOU FIND it heavy-handed proves Coogler's point that
>you don't know anything about black men.


Coogler's point is that ODotSoHot knows nothing about black men? Cool story.


>>We get the point that he loves his daughter within the first
>5
>>minutes of the movie.
>
>LMAO!!!!!
>
>That's what being a father to an adorable little girl is
>actually like.


No, it's not. It's a part of what it's like, but it isn't the totality of what it means to be a father. Little girls disrupt their classes, little girls get attitudes, little girls eat boogers, little girls throw tantrums, little girls wet the bed, little girls need help with their homework, little girls wanna know why the car smells funny, etc. I'm not saying that all of that needed to be explored, but every scene didn't need to be so sugary between them. Coogler kept ringing the same bell, because he wanted to pull at your heartstrings.


>Its his mother's birthday. The day was built around his
>mother's birthday. He was buying crab and cards and other
>stuff....for his mother's birthday. That's why the film kept
>revisiting...his mother's birthday.


I don't have a problem with him doing it. I have a problem with him doing it in every fucking scene. Coogler hammers the same points in the exact same ways OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER.


>What? You wanted him to walking into his mother's birthday
>and rob everyone? Would that have been less contrived?


Never said anything was 'contrived'.


>Maybe you're actually just not very bright. If you're not,
>tell me now and I'll back off.


BA-ZING!!!


>Did you try to book *every* woman at 22?


Not every woman, but the ones who I'd go out of my way to give unsolicited advice to and put on the phone with my grandma...yeah.


>Its only far fetched
>if
>you think young black men are hyper sexual beings who can't
>escape the trappings of every available vagina.


Why do you keep bringing race into this conversation? I said upfront I don't care what color he is. I'd have the same issues with the heavy-handedness if he was White, Mexican, Chinese, or Pakistani. 90% of the movie was him going out of his way to be Dudley Do-Right. It SCREAMED 'feel extra bad for me, because I loved my mama, I helped dogs, I put random white women on the phone with my grandma, I give my daughter extra snacks, etc.'.


>You've actually never helped a stranger that way?


I have. Gave a homeless man named Maurice my last $10 today. It's not that Oscar was doing anything SPECTACULARLY great...it was that EVERYTHING he did leading up to the shooting was there to make him look like a saint. Seeing the same beat repeated ad nauseum just isn't all that interesting. I'd wager that the film would be equally potent as a 20 minute short.



  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Tue Jul-30-13 03:33 AM

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73. "LMAO...you wanted Oscar robbing people and throwing up gang signs"
In response to Reply # 72


  

          



BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


Oscar is sooooo complex omg, the movie showed him smoking
crack rocks and having an orgy.....bwahahahahahhaa


>That's a little hypocritical, no? They can show how 'sweet',
>'kind', and 'loving' he is OVER AND OVER, but spending a
>little more time with his imperfections is too much to ask?
>Isn't Coogler being praised for capturing the duality of the
>character? I don't think it's an unfair request.

Sure, making him book the white girl REAAAALLLY would have
made him more "complex."

LOL -


>Take Mickey Rourke in 'The Wrestler'....another character who
>is 'trying to get back on his feet'. Aronofsky didn't spend
>the first hour of that flick trying to paint him as a
>boyscout. We got the good and bad...probably more bad than
>good. But that's okay...because people are complex animals.
>We still loved that character at the end of the day.

Did you just compare Oscar Grant to the dude from the
fictional 'Wrestler?'

That movie melodrama that spanned months

Fruitvale was a character-driven story about the last
day of someone's life, where the hook is specifically
about how the audience feels about the character.


>
>I'm a 26 year old black man, born and raised in Compton, CA.
>I am Oscar's demographic.

Do you smoke crack and smack your girlfriend? How complex,
exactly are you?

bwahahahhahahahaha


>I never said I had a problem with the 'realism'...my issue is
>that the realism isn't all that cinematic.

Not even sure what that means.


>As for smoking crack and smacking his girlfriend...those are
>your own projections. I never said anything close to that.

Would that not have made Oscar more complex? And wouldn't
it have added richness to the story, forcing the audience
to feel a certain way when he died?


Oh.



>That's who everybody is. It has nothing to do with race,
>background, social standing, etc. Nobody is all good all the
>time. 90% of the film is Oscar being a good samaritan and
>Dudley Do-Right. FOR ME, it got old and started feeling like
>blatant manipulation.

That's because the film is pushing against what you're
using to seeing.

You feel manipulated because a 22 y/o black kid acting like
a father is not natural for you to see.

That's precisely the point.

>That's not what it means at all. Unless it's a movie about
>Jesus of Nazareth, I don't want to spend an hour watching
>ANYONE do nothing but good deeds. It got redundant.

Most of the good deeds weren't good deeds.

They were a normal New Year's Eve, when people are upbeat
and trying to turn their life around.

He wasn't conquering illness and freedom fighting.

Dude was helping people cook catfish.


>
>Coogler's point is that ODotSoHot knows nothing about black
>men? Cool story.

Well, you're the one who wants Oscar hollering at pussy
every minute and smoking crack and smacking his lady in
the name of "complexity"

LOL


>No, it's not. It's a part of what it's like, but it isn't the
>totality of what it means to be a father.

Lol.


Little girls
>disrupt their classes, little girls get attitudes, little
>girls eat boogers, little girls throw tantrums, little girls
>wet the bed, little girls need help with their homework,
>little girls wanna know why the car smells funny, etc.


LOL--and guess what?

There are days when fathers love every second of everything
you just named.

That is basic, bread and butter fatherhood.

Not sure what in blue fuck you're talking about.

I'm
>not saying that all of that needed to be explored, but every
>scene didn't need to be so sugary between them. Coogler kept
>ringing the same bell, because he wanted to pull at your
>heartstrings.

That is actually the way a lot of fatherhood can be.

Like, that's actually how it can be.

It really is.

I guess you wanted scenes with transvestite orgies,
eh?

>I don't have a problem with him doing it. I have a problem
>with him doing it in every fucking scene. Coogler hammers the
>same points in the exact same ways OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND
>OVER.

ITS HIS MOTHER'S BIRTHDAY, nigga

Its NEW YEARS DAY, nigga

Its TWO big days in ONE. He's trying to be positive, start
off the year on the right foot....the WHOLE MOVIE is about
a FLAWED dude trying to start anew...what better way to do
that than on your MOTHER'S birthday, which also happens to
be on NEW YEARS Day? It actually makes perfect sense


>
>Not every woman, but the ones who I'd go out of my way to give
>unsolicited advice to and put on the phone with my
>grandma...yeah.

Probably got shot down, too

Maybe the nigga don't like white girls...you know not
every black dude likes white girls...might not be his
style...he might just stop at Mexican


>Why do you keep bringing race into this conversation? I said
>upfront I don't care what color he is. I'd have the same
>issues with the heavy-handedness if he was White, Mexican,
>Chinese, or Pakistani. 90% of the movie was him going out of
>his way to be Dudley Do-Right. It SCREAMED 'feel extra bad
>for me, because I loved my mama, I helped dogs, I put random
>white women on the phone with my grandma, I give my daughter
>extra snacks, etc.'.


Nah....i'ma ride out with my opinion, thanks

You want Oscar raping women and snorting coke for the
sake of "complexity in the character"

bwahahahahahahahahahaha


you have black men, which is yourself apparently


Sad


>
>I have. Gave a homeless man named Maurice my last $10 today.

That would make you nicer than Oscar

Do recall that the man at the store was also nice to
Oscar, which was also the point....it was New Years...
dude wasn't trying to charge him 10 bucks to use the
bathroom...its the bay...people are generally upbeat and
the owner wasn't on no racist shit...its what created the
tone for Oscar to insist dude let the pregnant lady it

Its not the March on Washington

Its basic human decent-ness

You're just not used to it because you hate black people


>It's not that Oscar was doing anything SPECTACULARLY
>great...it was that EVERYTHING he did leading up to the
>shooting was there to make him look like a saint.

Saint? What, exactly, what saintly? Its his mother's
birthday and its New years day?

And is smoking weed in the care he's going to pick
his daughter up in "saintly?"

LOL


Seeing the
>same beat repeated ad nauseum just isn't all that interesting.
> I'd wager that the film would be equally potent as a 20
>minute short.

LOL

I'd wager that the film would suck a lot more if Oscar was
robbing convenient stores just so that you had the "complexity"
that you wanted

Bwahhahahahahahahahaha @ your sissy ass hipster opinions


  

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ODotSoHot
Member since Apr 02nd 2013
1171 posts
Tue Jul-30-13 12:56 PM

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74. "I'm tapping out lol...."
In response to Reply # 73


  

          

Startin' to feel like Coogler way you got me repeatin' myself.

But for the record....

>And is smoking weed in the car he's going to pick
>his daughter up in "saintly?"

...Oscar didn't smoke weed in the car. He let the Asian dude try it out. He refused to take a hit, because he was on a mission to become an even better saint.

That's all I got though.

Happy trolling! Peace, fam.

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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Tue Jul-30-13 11:18 PM

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76. "Fruitvale 2: Oscar comes back to life as a Blood who kills old ladies"
In response to Reply # 74


  

          


Apparently the protagonist is totally complex, lends
to a realistic movie



----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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spirit
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Mon Aug-05-13 08:28 PM

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79. "RE: Thoughts (SPOILERS)"
In response to Reply # 68


  

          

> I am definitely a proponent of giving the
>audience a reason to root for the main character, but come the
>fuck on...there were like 30 of 'em. They might as well have
>called the flick, "Blake Snyder Presents: Oscar Saves The
>Cat". We see him inviting his daughter into his bed, giving
>her a fruit rollup even though mommy says no, wishing his mom
>a happy birthday 4 times, lending his sister money even though
>he's broke, helping a white stranger plan a fish-fry, tending
>to a wounded dog, dumping a fat sack of weed in the ocean,
>racing his daughter after daycare, helping her brush her
>teeth, jump-starting a new years eve party on a train, getting
>an asshole store owner to help a pregnant woman, etc. A day
>in the life of Ghandi wouldn't have been that fuckin'
>charitable. It was all too heavy-handed and saccharine.

Did you miss the two scenes where he threatened someone's life (once in prison in front of his own mom and once to his former boss?). There weren't "thirty" scenes of Oscar doing good things, you basically listed all of them. And Ghandi isn't going to go around threatening people's lives or setting up drug deals. Everyone claiming Grant was positioned as a saint must have slept through half this movie.

>People are saying that Coogler managed to capture the duality
>of his nature -- if by briefly alluding to an affair and
>showing him snapping on a racist convict in jail is supposed
>to do that, I guess.

If all you got out of that exchange was the other convict was "racist", you totally missed the point of that scene. The convict accused Grant of being a snitch (a death sentence in prison) and Grant immediately responded by threatening the guy "if he ever saw him on the street" (which is basically a death threat in any hood, anywhere).

You somehow missed Grant threatening his boss, who was being eminently reasonably about explaining why Grant was fired?


___

http://www.newgoldenera.com

http://tinyurl.com/liberators2 - anarchy in two dimensions

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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86. "Nope...he wanted Oscar to rape the woman in the Deli"
In response to Reply # 79


  

          


That would have made it more "realistic"

LMAO @ imbeciles

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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astralblak
Member since Apr 05th 2007
20029 posts
Wed Jan-15-14 02:12 AM

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95. "after watching it, this review makes me ill"
In response to Reply # 68


  

          

.

  

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Hitokiri
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75. "I almost lost it..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Spoiler








At the end when they showed the picture of (real) Oscar and his daughter. I had to fight real hard at that point... motivated by the fact that I saw the flick with one of the homies.

--

"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Thu Aug-01-13 07:02 PM

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77. "This revolves highly around his relationship with his daughter? "
In response to Reply # 0
Thu Aug-01-13 07:02 PM by Cold Truth

  

          

I absolutely have to see it now. I wanted to see it before but that kinda drove a nail into my chest.

-Sig-

“Why didn’t you do this in your own god damn country?"

-All Stah's view on undocumented immigrants wanting to be treated like human beings.

  

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BennyTenStack
Member since Sep 09th 2007
5681 posts
Tue Aug-06-13 09:54 PM

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83. "Movie of the year so far."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Still processing it, but man, I don't know that I've ever sat through a movie with such power packed into 90 minutes. Incredible film. I FELT that movie.

  

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Calico
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87. "there was a guy in there with his lil son"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

....now I kinda wish I woulda taken my godkids too.....this is a slice of reality and should b seen and discussed.....great performances by everyone ... it's not a film everyone will understand though...people focusing on his good deeds or bad ones, how he spoke, etc aren't paying attention that at the end of the day Oscar shouldn't have died like that.....he was just a guy out enjoying his New Year's.....

"yes, sometimes my rhymes are sexist, but you lovely bitches and hos should know i'm tryin to correct it"- hiphopopotamus

  

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gumz
Member since Jan 09th 2005
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Wed Dec-25-13 11:05 PM

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88. "i loved this movie...the power of storytelling is in full display"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

there is no surprise ending, you know where it's going, but it's still so damn powerful when it hits. it doesn't matter how much of this was true and how much of it was made up. it delivers on it's mission to make Oscar a full person in your mind (instead of another name in a headline) and consider how much the people who loved him lost that day. i was really sad at the end. the lead actor really delivered in this role, i hope he gets a ton of work off of this. this should be a career defining movie for him.

http://www.youtube.com/user/gumzization
twitter: @BrosefMalone

  

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astralblak
Member since Apr 05th 2007
20029 posts
Fri Dec-27-13 01:16 PM

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90. "where did you see it. i'm in LA ad can't find it any where"
In response to Reply # 88


  

          

.

  

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gumz
Member since Jan 09th 2005
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Fri Dec-27-13 07:45 PM

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91. "the interwebz....unfortunately. Would have liked to spend money on this ..."
In response to Reply # 90


  

          

http://www.youtube.com/user/gumzization
twitter: @BrosefMalone

  

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astralblak
Member since Apr 05th 2007
20029 posts
Fri Dec-27-13 10:14 PM

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92. "cool. in box link please"
In response to Reply # 91


  

          

cause i been trying to find it and can't

  

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gumz
Member since Jan 09th 2005
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96. "n/m"
In response to Reply # 92
Wed Jan-15-14 02:11 PM by gumz

  

          

n/m

http://www.youtube.com/user/gumzization
twitter: @BrosefMalone

  

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astralblak
Member since Apr 05th 2007
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94. "Finally watched it. "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Even knowing what took place. even being part of the protest in the summer of 09. shit crushed me

Michael B Jordan really does deserve trophy noms in the least, and IMO he gave the best performance of the year. From the range of emotions he displayed to getting the Bay slang down to a T, it was great. Octavia and Melanie deserve love too.

And Coogler, bruh, captured something very moving beyond the tragedy. just a beautiful film all around.

  

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maternalbliss
Member since Jul 05th 2005
2553 posts
Fri Jan-31-14 12:31 AM

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97. "RE: Fruitvale Station (Coogler, 2013)"
In response to Reply # 0
Fri Jan-31-14 12:34 AM by maternalbliss

          

Fruitvale Station is a well acted and well executed film but something about it does not feel right. It felt a bit hollow. It felt kinda slick.
I really do not know what is the value in telling Oscar Grant's story.The police have been militarized for a while now and the public has gotten used to it. There is no real justice in the corrupt criminal court system.
You can call me crazy if you want but the courts are barely any better today than they were in the days of Dred Scott.

I am not sure but i think the guy that accosted Grant on the train was a gang member. Oscar was a former gang member. Karma,

I think he had it coming folks. His death would have been just as stupid and senseless if he had been killed by a gang member.

The film does have a huge emotional impact but it won't fully satisfy folks who think critically and ask questions.


Grade B+

  

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paragon216
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Sat Mar-15-14 05:32 PM

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98. "he had it coming?"
In response to Reply # 97


          



بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

when is murder justifiable? why is he worth so little to you? stop appropriating "karma" for your twisted rationalizations.





¯\(°_o)/¯ www.twitter.com/paragon216


>Fruitvale Station is a well acted and well executed film
>but something about it does not feel right. It felt a bit
>hollow. It felt kinda slick.
>I really do not know what is the value in telling Oscar
>Grant's story.The police have been militarized for a while
>now and the public has gotten used to it. There is no real
>justice in the corrupt criminal court system.
>You can call me crazy if you want but the courts are barely
>any better today than they were in the days of Dred Scott.
>
>I am not sure but i think the guy that accosted Grant on the
>train was a gang member. Oscar was a former gang member.
>Karma,
>
>I think he had it coming folks. His death would have been
>just as stupid and senseless if he had been killed by a gang
>member.
>
>The film does have a huge emotional impact but it won't fully
>satisfy folks who think critically and ask questions.
>
>
>Grade B+
>
>

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
86672 posts
Sat Mar-15-14 07:32 PM

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99. "lol wut"
In response to Reply # 97


  

          

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

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BennyTenStack
Member since Sep 09th 2007
5681 posts
Sat Mar-15-14 09:48 PM

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100. "Good grief, man."
In response to Reply # 97


  

          

He had it coming?

  

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astralblak
Member since Apr 05th 2007
20029 posts
Sun Mar-16-14 01:48 PM

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101. "you are a very stupid shitty person"
In response to Reply # 97


  

          

please stop posting

  

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maternalbliss
Member since Jul 05th 2005
2553 posts
Thu Mar-20-14 07:11 PM

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102. "RE: eply to all"
In response to Reply # 101


          

I look at things from a spiritual point of view. The guy that accosted Oscar was someone he had known from his PAST.
h
LOOK AT ALL THE EVENTS THAT WAS GOING ON B4 THE COPS SHOWED UP THAT IS ALL I AM SAYING

If he had not gotten into that fight with that gangbanger maybe the cops would not have showed up.

I can't ignore the cause and effect and it just appears to me that Oscar had gotten himself in a downward spiral that he was not able or not willing to get himself out of.

This movie tried hard to show Oscar as being a dedicated father but i kinda question that. I don't think a man that is concerned about his daughter would be doing some dangerous shit like selling dope.
What if Oscar and that dude from the train had met on the street somewhere and shit got ugly. We would not even be talking about this shit.........


Imo, the Oscar Grant shooting is just another fake outrage story that is created by the white media (like Trayvonn). After they create these stories the black boule snakes play their role shit quiets down until the next manufactured race story comes along.


Wake up people.

Bliss

  

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ODotSoHot
Member since Apr 02nd 2013
1171 posts
Thu Mar-20-14 09:03 PM

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103. "The fuck?"
In response to Reply # 102


  

          

>Imo, the Oscar Grant shooting is just another fake outrage
>story that is created by the white media (like Trayvonn).

  

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maternalbliss
Member since Jul 05th 2005
2553 posts
Fri Mar-21-14 05:30 AM

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104. "RE: The police kill people every single day"
In response to Reply # 103


          

don't be mad at me break your hypnosis. I clearly see what has been going on.

A couple of years ago a black man was found hanging from a tree in Sunflower county mississippi. This story just got no attention in the media. Imo this case was racially motivated. Nobody wanted to touch this one.


See the gay media could not report this one. There is no way they could trurn a story about a blackman hanging from a tree into a *cute* narrative. Frederick Jermaine Carter was his name,

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/2010-12-06-suicide-mississippi_N.htm?csp=hf

I ain't got no more to say about this really. FVS like most hood movies(cute slick narratives) basically keep the black man dumb and confused and these movies never offer any solutions.

I have said all of this before. I was right yesterday, what i say is true today and it will be true tomorrow. Get over it folks.


Bliss

  

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