Printer-friendly copy Email this topic to a friend
Lobby Pass The Popcorn topic #649295

Subject: "Lee Daniels' The Butler (Daniels, 2013)" Previous topic | Next topic
CherNic
Member since Aug 18th 2005
37156 posts
Wed May-08-13 11:14 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
"Lee Daniels' The Butler (Daniels, 2013)"
Wed Jul-24-13 03:17 AM by ZooTown74

  

          

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAagFuR_XIM

film supposed to be released in Oct. What do we think?

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top


Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
After The Paperboy, I'm officially a Daniels fan. Can't wait.
May 08th 2013
1
RE: After The Paperboy, I'm officially a Daniels fan. Can't wait.
May 08th 2013
2
      Oprah slaps a man in the trailer.
May 08th 2013
3
Not so fast, Ol' Man Harv! Warners sez you need a new title (swipe)
Jul 03rd 2013
4
Bush league move by Warner Brothers...n/m
Jul 03rd 2013
5
Jul 05th 2013
6
      At first I was surprised that WB was in the right...
Jul 05th 2013
8
      It's a dick-ish move but the rules are the rules
Jul 05th 2013
9
the make up in this movie looks horrible
Jul 05th 2013
7
Wait, are they re-releasing the short film?
Jul 05th 2013
10
The title is now official. And the movie's coming out in August.
Jul 24th 2013
11
also the title of the James Brown from-the-grave theme song:
Jul 24th 2013
12
Lee Daniels' Forrest Gump.
Aug 20th 2013
21
      Daniels had no choice-- there was a lawsuit.
Aug 20th 2013
22
           i figured the Forrest Gump producers sued, so
Aug 20th 2013
23
Saw this shit today.
Aug 01st 2013
13
did you ask Oprah anything at all?
Aug 16th 2013
15
      phrasing
Aug 16th 2013
16
      No. I shook her hand in awe as she was talking to me breifly about
Aug 16th 2013
18
It's really good. I agree with every word Odie Henderson wrote: (swipe)
Aug 16th 2013
14
Link to my review here:
Aug 16th 2013
17
Great story. Movie was the hottest of garbage
Aug 19th 2013
19
Lee Daniels' Forrest Gump.
Aug 19th 2013
20
Yep. That's exactly what it was.
Aug 20th 2013
24
      i didn't think it was bad it just was kinda boring in spots. SPOILERS B...
Aug 20th 2013
25
i didn't like it
Aug 26th 2013
26
the performances were great, but fuck the artistic license
Aug 29th 2013
27
yup.
Aug 30th 2013
28
But see, I don't need the movie to be historically "accurate"
Aug 30th 2013
29
Just saw it. Which actor did the best President?
Sep 14th 2013
30
I enjoyed Cusack as Nixon.
Sep 15th 2013
31
Mixed feelings but I appreciate the tribute to every black grand daddy
Feb 05th 2014
32
SoWhat is on-point with "Lee Daniels' Forrest Gump".
Oct 25th 2014
33

Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
86670 posts
Wed May-08-13 12:04 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
1. "After The Paperboy, I'm officially a Daniels fan. Can't wait."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

This movie is going to be gloriously campy and melodramatic.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
The Analyst
Member since Sep 22nd 2007
4621 posts
Wed May-08-13 12:38 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
2. "RE: After The Paperboy, I'm officially a Daniels fan. Can't wait."
In response to Reply # 1
Wed May-08-13 12:39 PM by The Analyst

  

          

>This movie is going to be gloriously campy and melodramatic.

Maybe, but I'm a little disappointed by Daniels' own comments that it's a basically major compromise and essentially a work-for-hire.

I mean, I was a big fan of the The Paperboy too, but that shit was some uncut raw straight from the craziest, most gloriously devious part of his mind. Obviously this ain't that. I get the melodramatic part, but I'm not sure I'm getting a "campy" vibe from the trailer.

Still, regardless, I'm checking for this. Interesting cast, to say the least. Also, ALAN FUCKIN RICKMAN AS RONALD REAGAN!

----

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
86670 posts
Wed May-08-13 12:44 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
3. "Oprah slaps a man in the trailer."
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

And Alan Rickman plays Ronald Reagan.

I'm thinking we'll get some camp, bare minimum.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

ZooTown74
Member since May 29th 2002
43582 posts
Wed Jul-03-13 10:33 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
4. "Not so fast, Ol' Man Harv! Warners sez you need a new title (swipe)"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://variety.com/2013/film/news/warner-bros-wins-the-butler-arbitration-over-weinstein-company-1200504301/

>Warner Bros. Wins ‘The Butler’ Arbitration Over Weinstein Co.

JULY 2, 2013 | 04:54PM PT
TWC required to select new title

Dave McNary
Film Reporter
@Variety_DMcNary

Warner Bros. has won an arbitration over the Weinstein Co. over the title for “The Butler,” requiring TWC to select another title.

But TWC has brushed off the ruling and hired high-powered attorney David Boies to handle an appeal and possible lawsuit.

The arbitration was conducted Tuesday through MPAA’s Title Registration Bureau, which has long been used by the industry to regulate use of titles.

“TWC made continuous use of the unregistered title in willful violation of the TRB rules,” the ruling said.

The ruling requires TWC to remove the word “Butler” from its marketing, promotional and other material related to the film.

Warner Bros. had asserted it has rights to the title, due to its ownership of a 1916 comedy short of the same name, and that TWC did not clear the title with Warner Bros. Boies blasted the ruling in a statement.

“The suggestion that there is a danger of confusion between TWC’s 2013 feature movie and a 1917 short that has not been shown in theaters, television, DVDs, or in any other way for almost a century makes no sense,” Boies said. “The award has no purpose except to restrict competition and is contrary to public policy.”

“The Butler” stars Forest Whitaker as the African-American servant who worked in the White House during eight presidencies. TWC has set the film for an Aug. 16 release in the U.S.

The MPAA describes the bureau as a voluntary central registration entity for titles of movies intended for U.S. theatrical distribution. The aim is to “prevent public confusion over films with similar titles.”

The ensemble drama, directed by Lee Daniels, also stars Oprah Winfrey, David Oyelowo, Liev Schreiber, Aml Ameen, Alan Rickman, James Marsden, Jane Fonda and Robin Williams.

Danny Strong wrote the script with Daniels. It is based on Wil Haygood’s Washington Post article about White House employee Eugene Allen. Daniels is producing with Hilary Shor, Cassian Elwes and Pam Williams of Laura Ziskin Prods.

Haygood’s article, titled “A Butler Well Served by This Election,” was published in November 2008, three days after Barack Obama’s election. Allen worked for eight presidents, starting with Harry Truman in 1952 and ending in 1986 with Ronald Reagan.

Warner Bros. did not comment for this report.

_________________________________________________________________________________________
Im not posting in PTP

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
The Analyst
Member since Sep 22nd 2007
4621 posts
Wed Jul-03-13 10:40 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
5. "Bush league move by Warner Brothers...n/m"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

----

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
b.Touch
Member since Jun 28th 2011
20514 posts
Fri Jul-05-13 03:33 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
6. ""
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

http://www.deadline.com/2013/07/citing-its-1916-silent-film-short-warner-bros-blocking-harvey-weinstein-from-using-the-butler-title-on-lee-daniels-film/

UPDATE: Warner Bros Refusing To Back Down Following ‘The Butler’ Director Lee Daniels’ Personal Appeal Over Title Dispute

By MIKE FLEMING JR | Friday July 5, 2013 @ 11:53am PDT
Tags: Big Deals Film, Forest Whitaker, Oprah Winfrey, The Butler, The Weinstein Company, Warner Bros

4th EXCLUSIVE UPDATE: The July 4th holiday didn’t stop the battle between The WeinsteinCompany and Warner Brothers over the title to The Butler. Attorneys for Warner Brothers yesterday sent a letter to TWC counsel David Boies in response to director Lee Daniels’ personal appeal to WB to back down on its demand for a title change. In the letter, WB attorney John Spiegel stands firm, calling TWC’s “cries of unfairness and its threats to sue Warner ..unproductive and unwarranted”. Sources tell Deadline that Daniels received a personal response from CEO Kevin Tsujihara yesterday. Warner Bros had no comment on the matter. You can read the complete letter below:

July 4, 2013

David Boies, Esq.
Boies, Schiller & Flexner LLP
333 Main Street
Armonk, NY 10504

Re:The Weinstein Company/The Butler

Dear Mr. Boies:

We represent Warner Bros. Pictures (WBP) and Warner Bros. Family Entertainment (collectively, “Warner”). I write in response to your July 3, 2013 letter on behalf of The Weinstein Company’s (TWC). TWC’s cries of unfairness and its threats to sue Warner are unproductive and unwarranted responses to a situation that TWC alone has created.

Your letter conspicuously omits to discuss the actual course of events in this case. That is no oversight, of course, because TWC has flagrantly and repeatedly violated the rules of the Title Registration Bureau (TRB) of the Motion Picture Association of America, Inc. (MPAA). For many years, TWC (including its affiliates and its predecessor in interest, Miramax Film Corporation) has subscribed to the TRB rules and procedures. The TRB functions as the central registration bureau for its subscribers’ film titles of U.S. theatrical motion pictures. TWC is a voluntary subscriber to the TRB. In other words, TWC chooses to avail itself of the many services and benefits the TRB provides. In exchange, TWC, like anyone else who voluntarily elects to participate in the TRB process, agrees to be bound by the TRB’s rules and procedures. Over the years, however, TWC and its principals have operated in the TRB process with breathtaking hypocrisy. They have used the TRB rules and procedures to extract concessions from, and initiate arbitration against, other subscriber companies in order to advance TWC’s own interests. See, e.g., Phoenix Pictures/Miramax-Dimension Arbitration (Oct. 5, 1999) (awarding the Weinstein-controlled Miramax relief against Phoenix’s release of “Got To Be You”); New Line Productions/Miramax-Dimension Arbitration (Dec. 17, 2003) (awarding the Weinstein-controlled Miramax relief against New Line’s “Curse of the Mask”). At the same time, TWC has flouted those same rules if and when they have happened to conflict with TWC’s interests.

As TWC is well aware, TRB subscribers must register each and every one of their film titles and cannot use a title for which they do not have the rights under the TRB rules. See TRB Rules 3.1 and 5.1.2. Pursuant to TRB Rule 3.7.2.2, each subscriber may designate up to five hundred (500) titles as “Permanent Original Releases.” WBP chose to add its title, “The Butler,” to this list in May of 2010. Where, as here, a subscriber submits a title for registration that is identical to the title of a Permanent Original Release, TRB Rule 4.4.2.2 clearly provides that registration will be denied unless a waiver is obtained from the subscriber with the protected title. If a waiver is not obtained, the subscriber seeking to register the identical title can instead register a variation of that title. If the subscriber with the similar permanently protected title protests, the subscriber seeking to use the similar title can request an arbitration, and a panel of arbitrators then decides, based on numerous factors, including equitable considerations, whether or not there is “harmful conflict” between the titles, such that the party seeking to use the permanently protected title should be precluded from doing so.

These are the rules and procedures — among many others — which have been in place for decades, with which TWC is intimately familiar, and which TWC has invoked many times for its own benefit. And yet, as it has also done several times in the past, TWC has chosen to proceed in reckless disregard of the rules, apparently relying on a self-spun “Weinstein exception” to the rules whenever and wherever those rules do not solely favor TWC.

TWC’s violation of the rules in this case include the following:

(1)TWC began promoting its film in September 2012, two months before TWC even attempted to register the title with the TRB;
(2)TWC attempted unsuccessfully to register the title in November 2012, and continued to use the title without authorization for eight months after its registration was denied
(3)TWC delayed for four months seeking a waiver from WBP, during which time TWC continued to make unauthorized use of the title;
(4)TWC failed to timely register a similar title, that Warner would likely not have protested and, even had the matter gone to arbitration, would likely have resulted in TWC’s being able to use the similar title; and
(5) TWC continued to use the title for months after Warner declined to grant a waiver.

In light of the severity of TWC’s transgressions, it is unsurprising that the arbitrators ruled as they did. Indeed there was ample precedent for their ruling, including TWC’s own disturbing pattern and practice of flagrant TRB rules violations. For example, in 1997, the Weinstein-controlled Miramax released the motion picture “Scream” without having cleared the title in conformance with TRB rules. After the subscriber who protested Miramax’s unauthorized use sought arbitration, the panel, as the panel did in this case, enjoined Miramax from any further use of the title; prohibited Miramax from using the word “scream” in any form; awarded damages and attorneys’ fees to the opposing party; and ordered monetary sanctions for any prospective violations of the arbitration award. Similarly egregious violations of the TRB rules by your clients in connection with the motion pictures “Il Postino” (“The Postman”) and “Control” resulted in the imposition of similar injunctions and sanctions.

When viewed in light of the complete factual background, TWC could not reasonably have expected the arbitration in this matter to yield any result other than the arbitrators’ ruling. On the contrary, given TWC’s extensive experience with the TRB and intimate knowledge of the rules, it is truly astounding that TWC chose once again to flout the rules, especially when there were so many opportunities for TWC itself to obviate the harm that TWC now claims. Had TWC timely sought to register the title and timely sought a waiver from Warner, there would have been ample opportunity for TWC to register a clearly similar title if Warner denied the waiver. TWC could have registered any number of alternative titles featuring the word “Butler.” In fact, TWC registered the title “Lee Daniels’ The Butler,” which Warner did not protest and which TWC could easily have used. Instead, TWC insisted on continuing to use an unregistered, uncleared, protested title, giving Warner no choice but to bring an arbitration against TWC, not only to defend Warner’s own rights in this case but to defend the integrity of the TRB rules and procedures.

I also note that, as your client is well aware and contrary to what you have written in your correspondence, Warner never agreed that TWC could copy Warner’s protected title. TWC attempted to make this argument at the arbitration hearing and it was soundly rejected by the arbitrators. The evidence was clear and unambiguous that Warner expressly rejected TWC’s request for a waiver — including at least twice in writing — and that TWC continued to use the title in willful disregard of Warner’s rights and in violation of the TRB rules.

In light of the complete background, it is obvious that the accusations your letter makes are both baseless and fruitless, and that TWC is trying to twist this dispute into something it is not. Warner is in no respect trying “to restrict the marketing and distribution” of TWC’s motion picture. The fact that TWC is now using a campaign of misinformation about those rules and procedures to gin up publicity for the film is not lost on anyone. Indeed, the New York Times noted just yesterday that TWC is following its well-worn path of creating “well-publicized controversies” on the eve of a film’s release. http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/07/03/its-weinstein-vs-warner-brothers-over-use-of-the-title-the-butler/.

TWC’s attempt to re-litigate a case it lost in arbitration – whether in the press or in court – will never succeed. The TRB rules make it abundantly clear that TRB arbitration is the sole and exclusive remedy for resolving any and all title disputes. The courts do not allow parties like TWC to “sit idle through an arbitration procedure” and then collaterally attack that process in a lawsuit “when the result turns out to be adverse.” Marino v. Writers Guild of America, East, Inc., 992 F.2d 1480, 1484 (9th Cir. 1993). Your suggestion that the TRB rules that TWC voluntarily elected to subscribe to violate the antitrust laws is specious. See Guichard v. Mandalay Pictures, 2005 WL 2007883, at *4 (N.D. Cal. Aug. 22, 2005) (rejecting claim that TRB rules violated antitrust laws); Guichard v. Universal City Studios, 2007 WL 1750216, at *7 (N.D. Cal. June 15, 2007) (rejecting analogous claim that TRB rules were unfair business practices). And, your insinuation that there is some irreparable injury in TWC being subject to sanctions of $25,000 per day for continuing to flout the rules is meritless. If TWC believes that sanction is unwarranted, TWC can make that argument to the arbitration panel or in the appeal process that TWC has voluntarily decided to avail itself of. In all events, the idea that a sanction of $25,000 per day will cause some catastrophic harm to a corporation with the immense resources of TWC and the Weinsteins is self-evidently absurd. TWC’s litigation threats are just more hollow posturing by a party that does not have the facts, law or equity on its side. Let me assure you that Warner will vigorously defend any attempt by TWC to circumvent rules and procedures to which it has voluntarily subscribed and to which it is indisputably bound. It should go without saying that we expect TWC to preserve all relevant documents.

The foregoing is not a complete recitation of all of the facts and law pertaining to this matter, nor a waiver of any of Warner’s rights, remedies, defenses and positions, all of which are expressly reserved.

Very truly yours,

John W. Spiegel

JWS:rcp

cc:John Rogovin, Esq.
Henry Hoberman, Esq.
Floyd Abrams, Esq.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
86670 posts
Fri Jul-05-13 06:08 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
8. "At first I was surprised that WB was in the right..."
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

... but then I remembered: this is Harvey. lol

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
ZooTown74
Member since May 29th 2002
43582 posts
Fri Jul-05-13 08:42 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
9. "It's a dick-ish move but the rules are the rules"
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

Ol' Man Harv need to just call it The American Butler and call it a day

_______________________________________________________________________________________
Im not posting in PTP

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Heinz
Member since Dec 26th 2003
20759 posts
Fri Jul-05-13 05:10 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
7. "the make up in this movie looks horrible"
In response to Reply # 0
Fri Jul-05-13 05:10 PM by Heinz

  

          

equivalent to the make up done in Jimmy Fallon skits lol

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Wordman
Member since Apr 11th 2003
11224 posts
Fri Jul-05-13 11:34 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
10. "Wait, are they re-releasing the short film?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


"Your current frequencies of understanding outweigh that which has been given for you to understand." Saul Williams

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

ZooTown74
Member since May 29th 2002
43582 posts
Wed Jul-24-13 03:26 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
11. "The title is now official. And the movie's coming out in August."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

As a result of this L, Ol' Man Harv just declared war on Hollywood, b

He's gonna outspend every competitor and smear every film at the Oscars this year, WATCH

Also, I don't like the title

There should have been better alternatives:

Butler (straightforward)
The American Servant (Sorkin-esque Feel)
Tha Butler (Compton Edit)
DA BUTT-ler! (Spike Lee '88 Throwback)
Le Butler (Latte Sippers Stand Up)
Servin' America (Double Entendre Title)
Servin' in America (HBO Documentary Feel/Double Entendre)
Yessuh, Mr. Presidents (Racist Title)
The Help 2 (Franchise Continuation)
Black Oscar Bait (Honesty in Advertising)
Lee Danielz' The Butler (Urban Market)
Lee Daniels' The Butler: Based on the Novel by Sapphire (Blatant False Advertising Based Off Of Previous Success)

__________________________________________________________________________________________
But Zootown, black people and media, so...

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
b.Touch
Member since Jun 28th 2011
20514 posts
Wed Jul-24-13 12:32 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
12. "also the title of the James Brown from-the-grave theme song:"
In response to Reply # 11


  

          

>Servin' in America (HBO Documentary Feel/Double Entendre)

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
SoWhat
Charter member
154163 posts
Tue Aug-20-13 10:35 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
21. "Lee Daniels' Forrest Gump."
In response to Reply # 11


  

          

^ i meant to place this here last night. LOL

but anyway, Lee needs to be kicked in the balls for this title. i was trying to find the movie in an alphabetical listing of currently playing titles and couldn't find this under 'B' where i expected it. so then i looked under 'T' just in case. nope, not there. i kept scanning and finally saw it under 'L'. WTF????

actually, maybe Tyler Perry should be kicked in the balls b/c i'm sure this awful title is his idea somehow. or Tyler should kick Lee in the balls.

fuck you.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
86670 posts
Tue Aug-20-13 10:54 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
22. "Daniels had no choice-- there was a lawsuit."
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

Another studio sued because there was a silent film called "The Butler" so the Weinsteins were forced to change it.

And Tyler Perry had nothing to do with this film, as a side note.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
SoWhat
Charter member
154163 posts
Tue Aug-20-13 11:43 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
23. "i figured the Forrest Gump producers sued, so "
In response to Reply # 22
Tue Aug-20-13 11:43 AM by SoWhat

  

          

Daniels was forced to change his title from the more fitting one.

but oh, okay.

fuck you.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

bwood
Member since Apr 03rd 2006
8613 posts
Thu Aug-01-13 06:48 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
13. "Saw this shit today."
In response to Reply # 0


          

Good. Not anything really noteworthy. It's way too long and in some parts a little too melodramatic. Forrest Whitaker, David O, and all them cats that played the president are the only things noteworthy in this piece.

Oprah's cool as fuck tho. I was able to take Mama B.Wood to this shit and I guess moms made an impression cause Oprah came right up to me on her way out to talk for a couple of minutes.

------------------------------------------
America from 9:00 on: https://youtu.be/GUwLCQU10KQ

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Fructose Soda
Member since Feb 19th 2012
2150 posts
Fri Aug-16-13 06:51 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
15. "did you ask Oprah anything at all?"
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

She's one of the few celebs I'd just HAVE to probe.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
jigga
Charter member
31583 posts
Fri Aug-16-13 09:16 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
16. "phrasing"
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

>She's one of the few celebs I'd just HAVE to probe.

boom

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
bwood
Member since Apr 03rd 2006
8613 posts
Fri Aug-16-13 01:05 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
18. "No. I shook her hand in awe as she was talking to me breifly about"
In response to Reply # 15


          

how she hopes that can be a successful so we can have more blacks in the industry.

------------------------------------------
America from 9:00 on: https://youtu.be/GUwLCQU10KQ

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
86670 posts
Fri Aug-16-13 12:51 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
14. "It's really good. I agree with every word Odie Henderson wrote: (swipe)"
In response to Reply # 0
Fri Aug-16-13 01:08 AM by Frank Longo

  

          

There's nothing more I can add. I'm a Daniels fan. Never gets overly pulpy, but pulpy enough to keep it from becoming a straight-laced snoozeville biopic. It's subversive in a way I'm not sure any director with access to this type of budget could be today other than Daniels.

I wonder if its heavy in-your-face racial politics will keep it arm's distance away for Oscar voters. Regardless, it's really good.

http://moviemezzanine.com/lee-daniels-the-butler-pg-13-prestige-with-a-hint-of-freaky-deaky/

‘LEE DANIELS’ THE BUTLER’: PG-13 PRESTIGE WITH A HINT OF FREAKY-DEAKY
by Odie Henderson

The trailer for the movie formerly known as The Butler looked like the love child of Stanley Kramer and Irwin Allen’s casting agent. Here was an old-fashioned “prestige picture” with an all-star cast in unusual roles. At its center is Forrest Whitaker playing a fictionalized version of the man who served 9 U.S. presidents as the White House butler. Being Black and a servant in the days of Jim Crow required a form of anonymity, which made The Butler the perfect, nondescript title for this film. Or so I thought.

When Warner Bros. sued Harvey Scissorhands over the title, The Weinstein Company took a page from the playbooks of John Carpenter, Tyler Perry and Cecil B. DeMille: They put the director’s name in the title. Two weeks before opening, The Butler became Lee Daniels’ The Butler. This was the movie title equivalent of Dorothy opening that black and white door and discovering a Technicolor Oz. Because Lee Daniels is a freak who works out his demons onscreen in ways unsuitable for the old school Hollywood message picture. His “Guess Who’s Coming to Dinner” would have had Spencer Tracy discovering his daughter under a sweaty, butt-naked Sidney Poitier. “Meet mah fiancee, Dadd-ee!” she’d yell.

This is why I’m a Lee Daniels fan, and I make no apologies. I was on Team Paperboy and put Precious on my ten best list that year. Even the dreadful Shadowboxer benefitted from its wacko casting of Helen Mirren and Cuba Gooding Jr. and its batshit crazy levels of nudity, sex and violence. Every auteur sees his fears and perversions through the camera’s viewfinder. Daniels looks through his and sees realism colored by a pulp sensibility. This results in racial and sexual scenarios stretched beyond the breaking point of comfort, and you can tell Daniels enjoys making you squirm. For better or worse, there aren’t too many minority directors willing (or able) to go down this freaky-deaky road. I find this fascinating.

Had the Oscars not already gone for the full-brunt, “you nasty!” Lee Daniels, I’m sure TWC would have called this movie something else, like Forrest Whitaker Gump. What I’m curious to see is how the Academy will respond to an on-the-surface mellowing by Daniels. I say on the surface because underneath It, Daniels is still exercising his trademark insanity. Not five minutes into Lee Daniels’ The Butler, there’s a lynching, a rape and a murder. Granted, the rape occurs offscreen as does most of the murder victim’s brain splatter. But these events announce that, prestige picture or not, the viewer shouldn’t get too comfortable.

Cecil Gaines (Forrest Whitaker) is our tour guide in this Around the Cullud World in 80 Days style extravaganza. He is joined by Miss Sofia Herself, Oprah Winfrey, as his alcoholic wife, Gloria. They make a great couple, with Oprah matching the Oscar winner beat for beat. In fact, Winfrey is one of the two actors who walk off with Lee Daniels’ The Butler whenever they’re onscreen. (The other is my doppelganger, Cuba Gooding Jr., who plays this film’s raunchy Black id.)



Whether it’s slurring drunkedly while Terrence Howard touches her tig ol’ biddies, or dancing, Afro-clad and sexy as hell, to Soul Train, Winfrey is memorable. She inhabits Gloria from the inside out; her phrasing choices and how she addresses the camera and her co-stars always feels real. She’s boisterously external while Whitaker looks at times as if his pain is an anchor pulling him further within himself.

Cecil has a lot of pain to suppress. After his father is gunned down in front of him, young Cecil (Michael Rainey Jr) is taken under the wing of a plantation owner (Vanessa Redgrave) who gives him lessons on serving White folks in the house. “You should be invisible,” she tells the young boy. As a teenager, Cecil leaves his mother (Mariah Carey), who has been driven crazy by abuse, and sets out to find work up North. He gets a server job at a fancy D.C. restaurant courtesy of his temporary mentor Maynard (the great Clarence Williams III). Maynard continues Redgrave’s teachings about servitude, and when Whitaker assumes the role of Cecil as an adult, he seamlessly stitches those lessons on invisibility into his performance.

Cecil is so good at serving “de White folks” that a customer recommends him to the White House staff. The interview is hilarious, with Cecil proving to his Black interviewer that he’ll make “a good house nigger.” “Are you political,” asks the head butler interviewing him. When Cecil says he isn’t, screenwriter Danny Strong throws a red meat line of dialogue to the audience: “There’s no room for politics at the White House.” Cecil gets the job, and his journey through the times that are a-changing begins.

At the White House, the parade of oddly cast Presidents co-exists with a colorized Upstairs, Downstairs vibe. Cecil’s co-workers include Lenny Kravitz and Daniels’ stand-in, the aforementioned Cuba Gooding Jr. Cuba’s first lines of dialogue are a joke so dirty the PG-13 rating forces the sound man to obscure the punchline. (The PG-13 doesn’t prevent you from reading his lips, though.) These scenes, along with Cecil’s party sequences at home, are funny and joyous; they show the personalities leeched from the characters the second they interact with Whites. We never forget that Blacks are only fully visible in Black company.



As for the Commanders-in-Chiefs: If Bill Murray can be FDR, why can’t John Cusack be Nixon? In fact, Cusack’s just fine as Nixon, as are Robin Williams, Alan Richman and Jane Fonda as Eisenhower and the Reagans. (Fonda’s Mommy even shakes her ass as she walks away!) James Marsden’s John F. Kennedy is looked upon with the eyes of the Black grandmother who had pictures of MLK, JFK and Black Jesus on her mantle. Liev Schreiber’s LBJ is crude in all the ways Lee Daniels characters should be. Whether taking meetings on the toilet (“Cecil, get me some more laxative!”) or addressing his butler staff (“When did he start saying Negro?” asks Cuba, “That nigga says nigger more than I say nigga!”), Schrieber commands his few scenes.

Just like the Black women who raised their employers’ White children, the White House keeps Cecil from his home life. As Gloria crawls deeper into the bottle, and into dangerous flirtation with randy neighbor Howard (Terrence Howard), Cecil’s sons traverse separate paths to adulthood. The elder of Cecil’s sons, Louis (a fine David Oyeloko) becomes a member of the Black Panthers. The younger son volunteers for Vietnam. Louis figures in the film’s most blatantly symbolic (though very effective) moment: A sit-in Louis and his fellow Fisk University students attend is intercut with Cecil setting the White House table for dinner. In both, it’s a visually rendered dinnertime juxtaposition between being invisible and refusing to be invisible.

Louis, who hates his father’s servitude, is the source of some controversy surrounding Lee Daniels’ The Butler. Seems the butler whose life provides the basis for this film didn’t have a militant Black son. Of course, “based on a true story” is given more scrutiny when the true story is brown, but I see what Daniels is doing here. As a Black man in the rare position of telling a Black story through the eyes of Black characters, Daniels needed to show both sides of how we dealt with our treatment in America. The actual footage of abuse Daniels uses is not only a reminder of days gone by but a wake-up call about how those days may slowly be returning. So screw the complainers: If John Nash can have an imaginary albino and win Best Picture, Cecil Gaines can have Stokely Carmichael as a son.

Strong’s script ticks off the events and the actors believably depict them. At the center is Whitaker, who like Tim Robbins in Mystic River contorts his imposing frame into a convincing meekness. It’s almost as if he disappears before your eyes, descending into some pit of internal sorrow and/or solace. Unlike Louis, he represents the older generation who hopes for change through non-violent means, with a faith in the government that will eventually dissolve. It’s Whitaker’s finest hour onscreen so far.

In my 42 conversation with Steven Boone, I said Black folks will cinematically overcome when we’re given the same kind of corny Americana treatment White heroes are usually afforded. I should have also included us getting a big screen tour through American history as seen through an African-American filter. Lee Daniels’ The Butler provides that without forsaking the identity of its filmmaker or its characters.

This is Oscar bait, to be sure, but just remember: The director of Precious and The Paperboy is holding the fishing rod.

Grade: B+

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
86670 posts
Fri Aug-16-13 11:23 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
17. "Link to my review here:"
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

http://exm.nr/1abXL3B

Snippet:

"If film marketing campaigns were forced to tell the truth, every poster for Lee Daniels’ The Butler would have Lee Daniels’ name bold-faced and italicized. The trailer would be recut to showcase this film’s in-your-face racial and sexual elements, and perhaps people wouldn’t mistake this film for your ordinary biopic. It fits several of the cliches (sappy music, serious narration, actors who play the same part from age 13 to his 60s thanks to make-up, etc.), but this isn’t merely the tale of a dignified black man who serves his country best by serving. Lee Daniels’ The Butler is about the awakening of racial identity, about the different paths black people could take during the era of segregation to be subversive. Perhaps you could view this movie’s trailer as the exact same level of subversion: make white folks think they’re seeing a tidy pleasant biopic about a kindly old black man, and instead make them sit through a wonderfully uncomfortable, cheerfully sloppy, and surprisingly irreverent biopic. Its pulpy pleasures and its stubborn refusal to cut away from this country’s ugliness are what make it so enjoyable to watch. In short, it’s a Lee Daniels movie."

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

cipha_2
Member since Nov 01st 2004
8277 posts
Mon Aug-19-13 03:28 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
19. "Great story. Movie was the hottest of garbage"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

glad I went to support #niggashit tho.

*


"D is for what I serve, I don't be on no curb, she aint no junky neither, I ain't no dope dealer" - 3000

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

SoWhat
Charter member
154163 posts
Mon Aug-19-13 08:26 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
20. "Lee Daniels' Forrest Gump."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

^^ even more appropriate title.

fuck you.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
ZooTown74
Member since May 29th 2002
43582 posts
Tue Aug-20-13 12:50 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
24. "Yep. That's exactly what it was."
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

Movie was enjoyable and it was fun to see cats like Lenny (funk album soon buddy?), Mariah, and Robin Williams show up in big roles

And Forest and Oprah were great

And some of Lee's ironic music cue choices were inspired

But the shit where the son JUST HAPPENED to be in the vicinity of major civil rights events was kinda annoying

And I did see a piece somewhere where the movie is taken to task for demonizing the son's choice of joining up with the Black Panthers and the "bitch" (Oprah's words) whom he fell in love with

That was weird

Otherwise, it was fine

_______________________________________________________________________________________________
But Zootown, black people and media, so...

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
SoWhat
Charter member
154163 posts
Tue Aug-20-13 02:14 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
25. "i didn't think it was bad it just was kinda boring in spots. SPOILERS B..."
In response to Reply # 24
Tue Aug-20-13 02:25 PM by SoWhat

  

          

SPOILERS BELOW.














































i was ready to go 5 minutes into it (the shooting) but stuck it out.

then by the time Louis was in jail w/MLK in Birmingham i wondered if i left then would i make it home in time for the evening local news (i saw a 4:30 matinee). when he joined the Panthers i thought about going for a restroom break and delaying my decision about leaving altogether. thank goodness for the fast-forward through the Ford and Carter admins.

i HOPED Louis was gonna end up w/a drug habit and a white woman or a mental disorder and a white woman. but no.

anyway, once i begrudgingly accepted what was going on ("Tyler Perry's Forrest Gump") i decided to just stay for whole thing. but...ugh.

fuck you.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Crash Bandacoot
Member since May 13th 2003
10118 posts
Mon Aug-26-13 02:27 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
26. "i didn't like it"
In response to Reply # 0


          

didn't like the storyline for a myriad of reasons. shit was just sad all around. 'dignified negro struggle' x10000000000000

i will say that lee daniels did a good job directing though.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"It is better to be silent and thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt"

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Beamer6178
Member since Jan 09th 2006
6379 posts
Thu Aug-29-13 12:50 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
27. "the performances were great, but fuck the artistic license"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

the opening scene and his older son were completely manufactured to create the film's conflict. besides being just a bit tired of seeing black woman rape by white man followed by black male emasculation/death, i sure as fuck don't need to see it if the shit didn't even HAPPEN. there are more than enough REAL instances of it happening that it doesn't need to be made up.

i've grown more than tired of the black character who has been beaten down again and again with every possible tragedy happening, but manages to hold onto a small iota of dignity in "heroic" fashion.

fuck all that shit. by far the most interesting aspect of the movie was his interactions with 8 different presidents, seeing them in ways that few people ever did. that should have been the majority of the film, because there were pivotal moments in the presidency of each that could have received attention.

and his real son dying in Vietnam when in real life, he worked for the State Department? That's some actual fucking black progress, why couldn't THAT shit have been reported?

like i said, the acting was superb, but they could have easily juxtaposed world affairs and the civil rights movement with gaines' tenure in the white house without needing to create a son to explore that. more than enough real footage to show and scenes of certain events could have been shot as well for effect. gaines is still a black man in america, he didn't need to have a son immersed in the struggle to relate to and connect with it.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
SoWhat
Charter member
154163 posts
Fri Aug-30-13 03:41 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
28. "yup."
In response to Reply # 27


  

          

fuck you.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
ZooTown74
Member since May 29th 2002
43582 posts
Fri Aug-30-13 04:18 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
29. "But see, I don't need the movie to be historically "accurate""
In response to Reply # 27


  

          

It was never said that the movie was going to be about the *actual* White House butler

This isn't a documentary, and that's fine by me

That said, I was just annoyed at the idea that the son *just happened* to be at every important black historical civil rights event in the 60's

That, to me, isn't artistic license, that's straight jacking

And the portrayal of his girl as some ULTRA-radical radical who was down to kill whitey was really trite and goofy and troubling

I would have appreciated a little more nuance with her, even if she is in a Lee Daniels movie

_______________________________________________________________________________________________
But Zootown, black people and media, so...

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

ShinobiShaw
Charter member
48550 posts
Sat Sep-14-13 10:25 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
30. "Just saw it. Which actor did the best President?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Williams as Eisenhower
Shreiber as Johnson
Cyclops as Kennedy
Prof Snape as Reagan
Cusack as Nixon
Obama as Obama??


http://soundcloud.com/djshinobishaw
http://www.rareformnyc.com
http://twitter.com/DJShinobiShaw
https://twitter.com/RareFormNYC
PSN: ShinobiShaw

"Arm Leg Leg Arm How you doin?" (c)T510

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Fructose Soda
Member since Feb 19th 2012
2150 posts
Sun Sep-15-13 08:02 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
31. "I enjoyed Cusack as Nixon."
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

Could've had more screentime of him.
I actually wouldn't be mad if somebody made a movie with Cusack as Nixon.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Buddy_Gilapagos
Charter member
49394 posts
Wed Feb-05-14 12:46 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
32. "Mixed feelings but I appreciate the tribute to every black grand daddy"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Who silently suffered all sorts of indignities to provide for his family, even though their children never appreciated the sacrifices they made.

Also who gives a fuck about the artistic licenses Daniel's took? This isn't a story about one man but about generations of black men who couldn't afford to be militant.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

There is no absolute knowledge and anyone who claims it — whether a scientist, a politician or a religious believer — opens the door to

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

b.Touch
Member since Jun 28th 2011
20514 posts
Sat Oct-25-14 03:14 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
33. "SoWhat is on-point with "Lee Daniels' Forrest Gump"."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Cecil just HAPPENS to be in the room every time a President brings up civil rights - and that Pres goes SKRAIGHT to the Oval Office in the next shot to make a sweeping civil rights speech on TV.

His son just HAPPENS to participate in every major civil rights event from 1960 forward.

It all gets to be a little silly and TV-movie ish. The film is at its best with the standard family/work drama (Cuba Gooding hasn't been this good in years, and Oprah has a lot of fun as the mom). The stunt casting (Lenny Kravitz is too damn pretty to be anyone's damned butler!) is distracting, as has been pointed out, but I didn't much mind Liev Schreiber's LBJ or Alan Rickman's Reagan. The other presidents, "eh" (I couldn't stop saying "get 'em, Cyclops!" when Jimmy Marsden was giving his speech on the TV as JFK).


Wesley Morris' review points out Lee Daniels' obsession with melodrama and trashiness, but that's not necessarily a bad thing here. It works quite well in scenes that depict the lunch-counter protests and Freedom Riders with all of the impact of horror movies, which is how they should be depicted, not in the fru-fru cutesy manner of "The Help".

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Lobby Pass The Popcorn topic #649295 Previous topic | Next topic
Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.25
Copyright © DCScripts.com