http://www.totalfilm.com/features/50-greatest-american-independent-films/martha-marcy-may-maylene-2011

below is the list so you don't have to click through the slide show. their comments section is filled with heads salty as shit Cassavettes aint get one nod.

50. Martha Marcy May Marlene (Durkin, 2011)
49. Hannah Takes The Stairs (Swanberg, 2007)
48. Kids (Clark 1995)
47. Meek’s Cutoff (Reichcardt, 2011)
46. Primer (Carruth, 2004)
45. Drugstore Cowboy (Van Sant, 1989)
44. Ghostdog (Jarmusch, 1999)
43. Grosse Point Blank (Armitag, 1997)
42. Lone Star (Sayles, 1996)
41. THX-1138 (Lucas, 1971)
40. Black Swan (Aronofsky, 2010)
39. Take Shelter (Nichols, 2011)
38. Half Nelson (Fleck, 2006)
37. Killer of Sheep (Burnett, 1977)
36. Pink Flamingos (Waters, 1972)
35. Liman (Swingers, 1996)
34. Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind (Gondry, 2004)
33. Sideways (Payne, 2004)
32. Lost in Translation (S. Coppola, 2003)
31. Henry: Portrait of A Serial Killer (McNaughton, 1986; released in ‘90)
30. Brick (Johnson, 2005)
29. Paranormal Activity (Peli, 2007)
28. Passion of the Christ (Gibson, 2004)
27. Rushmore (Anderson, 1998)
26. Blue Valentine (Cianfrance, 2006)
25. King of New York (Ferrara, 1990)
24. Winter’s Bone (Granik, 2010)
23. Slacker (Linklater, 1991)
22. Being John Malkovich (Jonze, 1999)
21. The Evil Dead (Raimi, 1981)
20. Drive (Refn, 2011)
19. Do the Right Thing (Lee, 1989)
18. Halloween (Carpenter, 1978)
17. Hoop Dreams (James, 1997)
16. Memento (Nolan, 2000)
15. Clerk (Smith, 1994)
14. The Terminator (Cameron, 1984)
13. Fargo (Coens, 1996)
12. Apocalypse Now (F. Coppola, 1979)
11. The Blair Witch Project (Myrick & Sanchez, 1999)
10. Blue Velvet (Lynch, 1986)
9. Donnie Darko (Kelly, 2001)
8. Mean Streets (Scorsese, 1973)
7. Texas Chainsaw Massacre (Hooper, 1974)
6. The Usual Suspect (Singer, 1995)
5. Reservoir Dogs (Tarantino, 1992)
4. Easy Rider (Hopper, 1969)
3. Sex, Lies & Videotape (Soderbergh, 1989)
2. Night of the Living Dead (Romero, 1968)
1. Pulp Fiction (Tarantino, 1994)

>20. Drive (Refn, 2011)
>19. Do the Right Thing (Lee, 1989)
>18. Halloween (Carpenter, 1978)
>17. Hoop Dreams (James, 1997)
>16. Memento (Nolan, 2000)
>15. Clerk (Smith, 1994)
>14. The Terminator (Cameron, 1984)
>13. Fargo (Coens, 1996)
>12. Apocalypse Now (F. Coppola, 1979)
>11. The Blair Witch Project (Myrick & Sanchez, 1999)

I liked Blair Witch, but that's ridiculous.

... otherwise Hoop Dreams really should be above almost all of these films.

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the directors picked two high schoolers who they knew wouldn't "make it". i mean that's the class that had C Webb, Penny, Juwan, etc if i'm not mistaken, and i always imagine the pathos and message of that film plays out much differently if say they followed Jalen from high school to Michigan and he a high pick on draft day

i think they weighed it's influence WAY TOO MUCH

i completely forgot my boo Michelle Williams is in that bitch tho...

They clearly weighed influence on this list. Yeesh.

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i mean they really went on and on about Tarantino's influence in the 90s, but than completely ignored the OG, it was very strange

It's a joke, really, especially considering that they obviously gave consideration to influence in their rankings.

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i really would love to hear Total Films rationale behind leaving him off

Cassavetes IS American independent film.
From the stories he chose to tell, to the filming techniques he used, to the "independent spirit" of filmmaking, to the quality of the films, to the fact that he's the very model EVERY independent filmmaker follows.
There is no such thing as American independent film without him.


"Your current frequencies of understanding outweigh that which has been given for you to understand." Saul Williams

1. Do the Right Thing (Lee, 1989)
2. The Terminator (Cameron, 1984)
3. Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind (Gondry, 2004)
4. Being John Malkovich (Jonze, 1999)
5. Black Swan (Aronofsky, 2010)
6. Take Shelter (Nichols, 2011)
7. Pulp Fiction (Tarantino, 1994)
8. King of New York (Ferrara, 1990)
9. Drive (Refn, 2011)
10. Winter’s Bone (Granik, 2010)
11. Blue Valentine (Cianfrance, 2006)
12. Ghostdog (Jarmusch, 1999)
13. Easy Rider (Hopper, 1969)
14. Hoop Dreams (James, 1997)
15. Texas Chainsaw Massacre (Hooper, 1974)
16. Fargo (Coens, 1996)
17. Halloween (Carpenter, 1978)
18. Reservoir Dogs (Tarantino, 1992)
19. Mean Streets (Scorsese, 1973)
20. The Usual Suspect (Singer, 1995)
21. Brick (Johnson, 2005)
22. Kids (Clark 1995)
23. Lost in Translation (S. Coppola, 2003)
24. Martha Marcy May Marlene (Durkin, 2011)
25. Half Nelson (Fleck, 2006)
26. Clerks (Smith, 1994)
27. Memento (Nolan, 2000)
28. Donnie Darko (Kelly, 2001)
29. Rushmore (Anderson, 1998)
30. Sideways (Payne, 2004)
31. Swingers (Liman, 1996)
32. The Blair Witch Project (Myrick & Sanchez, 1999)
33. Passion of the Christ (Gibson, 2004) - fuck this movie
34. Meek’s Cutoff (Reichcardt, 2011) - this movie fucn SUCKED. period

I can still hear those squeaky wagon wheels in my head.

I liked it though.

>34. Meek’s Cutoff (Reichcardt, 2011) - this movie fucn SUCKED. period

that shit was awful. literally nothing happened. i don't wanna hear nuthin' 'bout authentic representations of the old west / colonial racist whites, or it acting as a metaphor for the current state of American empire. movie was garbo

I wanna refresh on some of those older ones:

1. Do The Right Thing
2. Fargo
3. Apocalypse Now
4. Hoop Dreams
5. Halloween
6. Terminator
7. Rushmore
8. Eternal Sunshine
9. Half Nelson
10. Being John Malkovich
11. Drive
12. Winter's Bone
13. Brick
14. Take Shelter
15. Blue Velvet
16. The Evil Dead
17. Lost in Translation
18. Paranormal Activity
19. Memento
20. Pulp Fiction
21. Clerks
22. Swingers
23. Passion of the Christ
24. Usual Suspects
25. Easy Rider
26. Martha Marcy May Marlene
27. Sideways
28. Blue Valentine
29. Reservoir Dogs
30. Meek's Cutoff
31. Grosse Point Blank
32. Black Swan

50. Donnie Darko

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I mean, it was made by one of the most prominent directors in the world, starred some major movie stars, was financed in large part (though not entirely) through a major studio, and shot on location for many months in a foreign country.

From WIKI: At the subsequent press conference, Coppola criticized the media for attacking him and the production during their problems filming in the Philippines and famously uttered, "We had access to too much money, too much equipment, and little by little we went insane", and "My film is not about Vietnam, it is Vietnam".

I don't know...just nitpicking I guess.

Edit: even in the description for Rushmore they call Apocalypse Now a "Hollywood" movie...

----

The Greatest American indie films ever and I don't see nan submissions from:

Hal Hartley
John Sayles (where is the brother from another planet? Lianna?)
David Mamet (house of games)

Aronofsky got on for Black Swan but didn't get on for Pi or Requiem for a Dream?


I don't see movies like:
The Spanish Prisoner


etc.

smh i'm calling indiefied bullshit on this list for reals.

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for a long time. so it is a good film huh? back when my neighborhood had a Hollywood video i also looked at the DVD case, but thought i'd just end of mad or bored, so never rented. i'll add it to the Queue tonight

and even though i love Black Swan, Pi is good, I agree that Requiem is his best film

>for a long time. so it is a good film huh? back when my
>neighborhood had a Hollywood video i also looked at the DVD
>case, but thought i'd just end of mad or bored, so never
>rented. i'll add it to the Queue tonight


Yes, Brother from Another Planet is *QUITE* good..probably a bit dated but oddly, still relevant today.

>and even though i love Black Swan, Pi is good, I agree that
>Requiem is his best film
>
>

yea, black swan isn't even that good...it really isn't. Pi and Requiem should have been on that list.

Get Out the Room
https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/get-out-the-room/id525657893

Some of y'all need this in your life: http://www.psychology.com

>Yes, Brother from Another Planet is *QUITE* good..probably a
>bit dated but oddly, still relevant today.

cool literally about to watch


>yea, black swan isn't even that good...it really isn't. Pi and
>Requiem should have been on that list.

Black Swan is fantastic, guess you don't like it, all good, but than again you keep talking about that shit fest Party Girl down below

i'm out.
_____________________
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@etfp

A list like this without Cassavetes just proves how pathetic film criticism has come.
Never mind the inmates, the idiots are running the asylum.
Every third film on this list shouldn't be here.
Let's see, in bullet-points:
*movies that are studio-financed but calling them indie (I'm looking at you APOCALYPSE NOW...).
*not picking an independent director's GREATEST work (I'm sorry, I love GHOST DOG more than any other Jarmusch film, but it's obviously not his greatest movie), which is sort of the point of a GREATEST list.
*picking NAMES over FILMS (THX 1138).
*the complete lack of RESEARCH into indie films.
*calling GOOD movies GREAT movies (DRIVE, DARKO, CHRIST, KONY, PARANORMAL ACTIVITY, about a half dozen others) with little to no justification.
*stating that 10 of the 50 greatest American indie films came out in the last 7 years. Really? 20% of the greatest U.S. indies came out after 2005? Really? After TWO SEPARATE INDIE FILM RENAISSANCES, 20% of the list isn't filled? Come on. Feed me all that "Wordman just doesn't appreciate current films" crap - you can't honestly tell me that makes sense to anyone.
*GROSS POINT BLANKE? Are you kidding me?
*The fact that you can name multiple American independent directors and indie films that are DIRECT INFLUENCES to a majority of these 50 films but AREN'T on this list is shameful.

Whatever happened to RESEARCH? Delving into a field of interest before doing something like this? You know, actually KNOWING a subject before making broad proclamations about that subject?




"Your current frequencies of understanding outweigh that which has been given for you to understand." Saul Williams

>A list like this without Cassavetes just proves how pathetic
>film criticism has come.

i almost emailed them about their justification for leaving off his films, but decided not to. 'cause i mean it's their list. maybe they got a Cassavetes only list dropping. let's hope.

>*movies that are studio-financed but calling them indie (I'm
>looking at you APOCALYPSE NOW...).
>*not picking an independent director's GREATEST work (I'm
>sorry, I love GHOST DOG more than any other Jarmusch film, but
>it's obviously not his greatest movie), which is sort of the
>point of a GREATEST list.

what would you pick? I'd go with Stranger than Paradise


>*stating that 10 of the 50 greatest American indie films came
>out in the last 7 years. Really? 20% of the greatest U.S.
>indies came out after 2005? Really? After TWO SEPARATE INDIE
>FILM RENAISSANCES, 20% of the list isn't filled? Come on. Feed
>me all that "Wordman just doesn't appreciate current films"
>crap - you can't honestly tell me that makes sense to anyone.

almost as much sense as that sight and sound list, but you right though, because there are a lot of mediocre films on this list

>Whatever happened to RESEARCH? Delving into a field of
>interest before doing something like this? You know, actually
>KNOWING a subject before making broad proclamations about that
>subject?

it's the internet B. but yo, can we all have a discussion on what justifies independent, seriously. i believe Sankofa suggested a budget of 15mil tops

>>A list like this without Cassavetes just proves how
>pathetic
>>film criticism has come.
>
>i almost emailed them about their justification for leaving
>off his films, but decided not to. 'cause i mean it's their
>list. maybe they got a Cassavetes only list dropping. let's
>hope.

It's truly mind-boggling.

>>*movies that are studio-financed but calling them indie (I'm
>>looking at you APOCALYPSE NOW...).
>>*not picking an independent director's GREATEST work (I'm
>>sorry, I love GHOST DOG more than any other Jarmusch film,
>but
>>it's obviously not his greatest movie), which is sort of the
>>point of a GREATEST list.
>
>what would you pick? I'd go with Stranger than Paradise

Yeah, I'd go with STRANGER THAN PARADISE, maybe DOWN BY LAW.

>>*stating that 10 of the 50 greatest American indie films
>came
>>out in the last 7 years. Really? 20% of the greatest U.S.
>>indies came out after 2005? Really? After TWO SEPARATE INDIE
>>FILM RENAISSANCES, 20% of the list isn't filled? Come on.
>Feed
>>me all that "Wordman just doesn't appreciate current films"
>>crap - you can't honestly tell me that makes sense to
>anyone.
>
>almost as much sense as that sight and sound list, but you
>right though, because there are a lot of mediocre films on
>this list

It's as if they took the 2 indie films that were playing at their local cinema from the past five years and put them on the list.

>>Whatever happened to RESEARCH? Delving into a field of
>>interest before doing something like this? You know,
>actually
>>KNOWING a subject before making broad proclamations about
>that
>>subject?
>
>it's the internet B. but yo, can we all have a discussion on
>what justifies independent, seriously.

Yeah, but that's a serious film magazine. They've got no excuse for being so blatantly bad.

>i believe Sankofa
>suggested a budget of 15mil tops

I don't consider budget, though I'm hard pressed to think of an indie film that was made for more than 15 mil.


"Your current frequencies of understanding outweigh that which has been given for you to understand." Saul Williams

----

These movies should make it on the basis on "influential" "notable landmark in indie cinema history" etc

>48. Kids (Clark 1995)
>46. Primer (Carruth, 2004)
>45. Drugstore Cowboy (Van Sant, 1989)
>42. Lone Star (Sayles, 1996)
>37. Killer of Sheep (Burnett, 1977)
>36. Pink Flamingos (Waters, 1972)
>35. Liman (Swingers, 1996)
>31. Henry: Portrait of A Serial Killer (McNaughton, 1986;
>released in ‘90)
>29. Paranormal Activity (Peli, 2007)
>27. Rushmore (Anderson, 1998)
>23. Slacker (Linklater, 1991)
>21. The Evil Dead (Raimi, 1981)
>19. Do the Right Thing (Lee, 1989)
>18. Halloween (Carpenter, 1978)
>17. Hoop Dreams (James, 1997)
>15. Clerk (Smith, 1994)
>11. The Blair Witch Project (Myrick & Sanchez, 1999)
>10. Blue Velvet (Lynch, 1986)
>8. Mean Streets (Scorsese, 1973)
>7. Texas Chainsaw Massacre (Hooper, 1974)
>5. Reservoir Dogs (Tarantino, 1992)
>4. Easy Rider (Hopper, 1969)
>3. Sex, Lies & Videotape (Soderbergh, 1989)
>2. Night of the Living Dead (Romero, 1968)
>1. Pulp Fiction (Tarantino, 1994)

That's 25.

That leaves 25 for quality alone. From the other list, I'd include:

>39. Take Shelter (Nichols, 2011)
>38. Half Nelson (Fleck, 2006)
>34. Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind (Gondry, 2004)
>32. Lost in Translation (S. Coppola, 2003)
>30. Brick (Johnson, 2005)
>24. Winter’s Bone (Granik, 2010)
>22. Being John Malkovich (Jonze, 1999)
>20. Drive (Refn, 2011)
>16. Memento (Nolan, 2000)
>13. Fargo (Coens, 1996)

That's 10 more. Room for 15. My thoughts:

- Sweet Sweetback's Baadasss Song has to be on here. No question.
- El Mariachi should be on here, no question.
- Cassavetes. Either A Woman Under The Influence or Faces. Maybe both.
- Robert Altman's Short Cuts.
- Carl Franklin's One False Move.
- if Tarantino has two, I think you have to give Spike Lee two, the other of which on an indie list clearly to me should be She's Gotta Have It. Classic example of minor budget, minor scope, major breakthrough, major influence.
- I'd argue Roger and Me, if solely for Michael Moore's impact on the world of documentary filmmaking, for better and worse belongs on here.
- Todd Solondz probably belongs on here for impact/influence, likely with Happiness.
- Darren Aronofsky probably belongs on here for impact/influence, likely with Requiem For A Dream or one could argue for Pi.
- Todd Haynes probably belongs on here for impact/influence, likely with Safe.
- The Hughes Brothers probably belong on here for impact/influence, either with Menace II Society or Dead Presidents.
- Alexander Payne shouldn't be represented by Sideways, but by Election.
- I too would put a different Jarmusch, either Stranger Than Paradise or Down By Law.
- I'd probably put Eraserhead instead of Blue Velvet for Lynch, if the list is supposed to represent "indie spirit."
- I'd put In The Company of Men.
- I'd put American Splendor.
- again, for "indie spirit," Buffalo 66 deserves consideration.

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>- Sweet Sweetback's Baadasss Song has to be on here. No
>question.

absolutely! top 5 IMO

>- El Mariachi should be on here, no question.

GOD DAMN. it took damn near 35 replies for some one to mention it. damn shame. top 3-5 IMO


>- if Tarantino has two, I think you have to give Spike Lee
>two, the other of which on an indie list clearly to me should
>be She's Gotta Have It. Classic example of minor budget, minor
>scope, major breakthrough, major influence.

Yes on She's Gotta Have iT. and Tarantino def did not need/deserve two selection

>- I'd argue Roger and Me, if solely for Michael Moore's impact
>on the world of documentary filmmaking, for better and worse
>belongs on here.

agreed! again.

>- Darren Aronofsky probably belongs on here for
>impact/influence, likely with Requiem For A Dream or one could
>argue for Pi.

yup, I also don't think Black Swan qualifies as indie

>- The Hughes Brothers probably belong on here for
>impact/influence, either with Menace II Society or Dead
>Presidents.

were those indie or just small budget majors? if the former absolutely


>- again, for "indie spirit," Buffalo 66 deserves
>consideration.

fuck that movie it's terrible. fucn awful

what a lovely and adorable bromance/love story

lol

god damn that shit was dark. made Chicago look and feel like the scumbag redneck capital of 80s. that def had "an indie feel/swag". it was just down right menacing and just showing the bodies murdered was as shocking as the murder scenes.

on the list i constructed i'd place it right after Halloween

ALSO ONE THING IS FOR SURE: i'm completely done with flimed rape scenes. this, nude nuns with bug guns, descent, thinking of irreversible, i just fuckin hate watching that shit. it's completely unnecessary, and borderline masochistic and misogynistic. they never add anything to films that isn't there on a tonal or symbolic level, i'm fucking over it. i wish more directors went the route of Precious representation of rape/molestation

overall 3.5/5

I'll check it out.

And irreversible can fuck anyone up.

__________________________________

*Note to self: Add Sig*

but it's absolutely terrible to me, barely made it through. The acting, writing, directing, everything was bad. And not even redeemable as a so bad it's good thing.

Matt Dillon was the go to social misfit/tuff guy/outcast of the 80s yo.

cot damn heather graham was young in this shit.

started off great, got a little silly, seemed a bit sloppy, overall good though

3/5

as opposed to raising arizona?

***

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