Man.

First of all, put Swinton in that category of "If They're Not Nominated For An Oscar, Then Fuck The Oscars."

Gorgeously shot, really fucked. The perfect manifestation of the issue of what happens if your child doesn't love you, or, worse, you don't love your child.

I'd complain that it may go about 10-15 minutes too long, but the imagery is so vivid that I didn't care. Not sure that Ezra Miller needed to sneer so much as the teen son, but holy shit at the toddler version of Kevin. Unbelievable.

This is a must-see if you can hunt it down.

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and i'm riding hard for Tilda Swinton...

folk sleep on her talent because they caught up in the "scandalous drama" of who she is (got a mid 30s boyfriend painter who travels with her to awards shows and events and is STILl with her husband living in their scottish castle raising their kids, fierce androgyny poses and "faces", etc.)

I've been a fan of hers since her work with the late Derek Jarman (sp?)


But, I have a feeling that her work in this film will get lost in a VERY crowded year for best actress (Theron, Close, Streep, Mulligan, Williams, Mara, Oduye , etc. plus any other last minute dark horses who slip in, which is basically Oduye, Swinton and Theron at the moment)....

Just like everyone SLEPT on and MISSED her work in JULIA (2008) and I AM LOVE (2009), two film in which she REALLY should have been nominated for her work....and wasn't.

sidenote: if you haven't seen these movies, rent them at netflix and thank me later)

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>Theron,

Critics like this movie, but she's playing a hateable role and that's a hard sell at the Oscars

>Close,

People haven't given her ANY critics awards yet. I think not enough people are passionate about it. Unless she gets a SAG or GG nomination, she's utterly toast. I think on one major list, McTeer got a nom and Close didn't.

>Streep,

Lock her in.

>Mulligan,

She's supporting in both.

>Williams,

Lock her in.

>Mara,

I'm pretty close to locking her in on these early reviews. She's gotta fight her way north though-- again, not particularly Oscar friendly fare.

>Oduye

LOOOOOONG shot. Again, not enough people are seeing it.

I think the only locks are Meryl Streep, Michelle Williams, and Viola Davis. The final two slots will be Mara, Swinton, (longer shots) Elizabeth Olsen, Charlize Theron, or (longest shot) Oduye.

Considering people have been outraged at her lack of noms for little seen films the last two years, I think folks are making an effort to watch this one. Plus, it has John C. Reilly and a hot-button subject.

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>>Theron,
>
>Critics like this movie, but she's playing a hateable role and
>that's a hard sell at the Oscars


but from what I am gathering, Theron kills it for real (i'm going to see over the coming weekend)

>>Close,
>
>People haven't given her ANY critics awards yet. I think not
>enough people are passionate about it. Unless she gets a SAG
>or GG nomination, she's utterly toast. I think on one major
>list, McTeer got a nom and Close didn't.

it sucks because I know folk who've seen it and say Close gives a seriously oscar worthy performance. once again, folk sleep on her talent and the performance. But shout out to McTeer, she's fucking fantastic period.

>>Streep,
>
>Lock her in.

love her

>>Mulligan,
>
>She's supporting in both.

really? because some critics are talking as if she's the major lead in both flicks (when it's quite clear she's supporting in both like you said, and honestly, quite minor in DRIVE)

>>Williams,
>
>Lock her in.
>
>>Mara,
>
>I'm pretty close to locking her in on these early reviews.
>She's gotta fight her way north though-- again, not
>particularly Oscar friendly fare.

you might be right but i do have general questions with this below...

>>Oduye
>
>LOOOOOONG shot. Again, not enough people are seeing it.

UGH!

>I think the only locks are Meryl Streep, Michelle Williams,
>and Viola Davis. The final two slots will be Mara, Swinton,
>(longer shots) Elizabeth Olsen, Charlize Theron, or (longest
>shot) Oduye.
>
>Considering people have been outraged at her lack of noms for
>little seen films the last two years, I think folks are making
>an effort to watch this one. Plus, it has John C. Reilly and a
>hot-button subject.


Why does the academy always shy away from unlikeable characters/films with difficult subjects? if the performance is there *AND* kicks ass, award the person.

Yea, The Girl With A Dragon Tattoo is going to be hard to watch, but if Mara goes hard in it and kills (which from what i've been told by folk who see it, she does and her nomination for best actress would be DESERVED), what's the big deal with nominating her?

i mean, damn, Jodie Foster got a nomination as a rape victim for The Accused, Monique walked away with the win as an abusive mother (and a violent one at that), etc.

But, I do hope Swinton slips in there and *shock if she did but i'd be happy as fuck* wins....

though folk are talking like this is Streep's year.

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is all over Martha.

Like jennifer lawrence proved last year, the Academy will nominate a young actress who makes a dramatic debut.

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Calling her a lock would mean that there is zero chance that she doesn't get nominated, which I just don't see. She didn't get a Screen Actors Guild nomination, for one...

----

Especially consider the films that got SAG praise weren't even December films, so people like Mara and Theron will almost certainly get more love from the Academy. Olsen's been out and exposed and STILL didn't get a nod.

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AND-0

you just mad.

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anyone know what electronic song is playing in the very last scene/over the end credits?

loved the soundtrack and Jonny Greenwood's score.
editing and cinematography were pretty damn impressive, as well.

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from the preview i knew he "shot" up the high school, i mean god damn it was obvious, but i still went in cause I knew Tilda would kill it and fuck the Oscars for not even nominating this woman for this role. CHRIST she kilt it, again. Also the lil' baby Kevin and teen Kevin deserve a lot of respect/love... more Latte noms I would've givin' if i had seen the film on time.

i love how disorienting/ed the opening scenes are and as the mother-son relationship gets told the tone of the film gets very clean/focused, yet the color of red stays imbedded throughout the whole film alluding to the no shit conclusion. it's very ominous symbolism, if at times heavy handed... dare i say Kubrick-esque.

Yet I don't think the ending is the point, i see it more as being about domestication, child rearing and social norms and how they are constructed and internalized within people's private lives. The dynamics of all the lead characters are so warped and haunting. Ramsay makes the simple seem to have so much importance. It feels like a damn horror film at times.

can't wait to see this again when it drops on DVD

–30–
You know it's drama, but it sound real good.

agreed that it works best as a horror movie, since everyone's behavior is sensationalized. although it's worth questioning, given the dream-state narration, how much is distorted by Swinton's viewpoint.

all three versions of Kevin were beyond creepy to me. him being a prodigy was a wonderful touch, and the relationship with his sister was the tensest part of the film -- again, the horror elements of suspense and sadism come into play here.

enjoyed the ending as well. it's the strongest maternal act Swinton ever makes, during her lowest point as a mother. and proof that whether sick or about to get raped in jail, even sociopaths need their mommies sometimes.

--------

I'm not sure if dude really didn't LOVE her tho. How much different would things have been had the child not picked up on the real resentment coming from his mom?

Oh and the Teen Kevin, is gonna be a problem. I HOPE we see more from him.

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and the image

WOW

"meaner than two fat mutha fuckers wrestlin' over po' chops and greens"

Amazing all the way through. What was he afraid of at the end though? The booty house?

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Yes! She's on the drugs. (c) BoHagon

this is pretentious, heavy handed, boring film school bullshit. Like Shame (another critically acclaimed bullshit movie).

when directors lean too heavy on devices, it means that they dont know how to tell the story....a director who doesn't believe that the story is worthwhile on its own will do all kinds of silly shit to distract from it.

the characters were, both primary and secondary, were so badly illustrated that it seems like parody...there is a real issue here that could have made a compelling story but by broad stroking the shit out of the characters, especially Kevin, it erases any integrity and realism that there may be....

the ONLY saving grace of this mess is the performances...

I always hate movies that establish from jump that theyre only purpose is to jerk your chain....some film geeks are into having their chains jerked, smart film fans and most other people are not...

this flick is damn good

and uhh Shame is one of the best movies of the past 5 years. FOH with that nonsense

What makes Shame great? Great acting does not make a great film. There's no real story arc so there can't be spoilers. The brother and sister are sad. Some mysterious thing happened to them. Because of it bro is a sex addict. Sis is a tumbleweed. Okay, now what? The film throws all that at us then ends.

They coulda used the Nicole Beharie character to make Bro really face his demons. Nope. Sis slits her wrists. We're not shown how that affects either of them or if it has any effect on them at all. It's all set up and no follow through. Oooh they're so troubled and unhappy! Oooh look at all the fucking he does! Oooh look at the full frontal nudity! Sex scenes! Atmospheric music! The end.

How is that good filmmaking?

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..or any art. sometimes we like stuff...it appeals to us regardless of quality...

Say for instance, I love She Hate Me. I love most Spike films...would I recommend some of them? No. Because I know Spike's filmmaking style isnt for most people...

Shame and Kevin are films that we're supposed to like. The critics say so. The films themselves take themselves SO seriously that you feel like that if you dont like it, youre not hip...I dont buy into that shit...

A film has one purpose: tell me a story. Stories have beginning, middle, and end. There's nothing with an ambiguous or open ending if the story lends itself to that and the ending is done properly. It's not done properly when used as an escape hatch for a director that got lost up their own ass and cant find their way out...if you cant tell a story as filmmaker, you suck.

Kevin's failing is that there's a strong story, but the director is so busy tryna be stylish that she fucks up telling it....badly drawn characters, gaping plot holes, going for shock instead of story development makes it a train wreck...the jumps in chronology serve no purpose and could have been done in a way to show us how we get to this point...

not only is the acting excellent, but the shots are vivid and feed the mood of the film overall. it's warped eye candy: from the sister in those white sheets with the open window view, to the vibrancy of the blood after the sister cuts herself. the film has a tone that stays consistent to the very end; actualizing its own world. it's a trait so many movies lack today. they are all over the place tonally and thematically and betray the filmed world the director, writers, and actors attempt to create.

also I won't convince you about the story/plot if that's how empty your reading of the characters is. the film is about addiction and depression. not what caused it. not YOUR need for their catharsis. not YOUR need for some complex set of circumstances and resolutions. it's about the very reality of being an addict and depressed. the machinations of it in daily routines, work, and intrapersonal relationships. how deep and ugly addiction becomes at it's apex.

unlike you, I do not need a "story arch", i just need quality representations of life where poignant things are taking place. i mean you spoke of that last sex scene, the threesome, like it was enjoyable to watch. that was one of the most uncomfortable scenes in recent memory IMO. he was fucking these two woman out of sheer disgust for his own flesh and inability to control his impulses.

just like McQueen's first film Hunger, Shame is fucn awesome.

but I'm glad you like/enjoyed She Hate Me. over in the Spike thread, i'm like the only one who thinks it's enjoyable, but like you, I'm biased towards Spike

I, too, dug the cinematography (I'm into good cinematography)but IMO, that's not enough...a great film needs the total package for me (story, characters, direction, acting)...you dug it because you saw it as a character study...I cant agree with you on that because the film is intent on NOT exploring the characters, we don't learn anything about them through the film that we didnt learn within the first few minutes of meeting them...we just go through their cycle with them over and over...

as far as being poignant, there was only one of those moments--when he found an emotional connection with ol girl which made him vulnerable and brought all his emotional handicaps to the surface...unlike his other sexual dealings, he found himself facing true intimacy in a situation where both people derive pleasure from the sexual experience...it was nothing like his usual sexual encounters over which he has complete control and only take place to feed his compulsion...his "shame" and fear rendered him impotent...

there are enough and better films abt the ennui of depression and addiction....films that make you feel the character's pain and make you care about them or even loathe them, even if they never overcome the addiction...

LOL. and no, I didn't view the last sex scene as enjoyable...the director did everything he could to make sure we know that ol boy was suffering through that pussy. LMAO...the long ass close up on Fassbender's pained facial expression shoved the sentiment down our throats. We get it. He's a sex addict. He does not enjoy this. He cant help himself. This is not fun for him. He's at the mercy of his addiction. He cant break free. Trust me, if I didnt take anything else from the film, I got that part...

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This movie was completely different from what I was expecting....About 20 minutes in I realized it needed to be watched as a horror movie. And it is effing incredible.

Not sure if the director/screenwriter hijacked the book....but this movie is NOT about Kevin. It's about women and the social expectations placed upon. Most specifically, that a women's identity is defined by child-rearing. For me, Kevin is not really a character per se.....he is a device. A complete exaggeration so that the theme can be properly explored.

The fact that there is absolutely NOTHING redeeming about Kevin almost makes this a monster movie. And Kevin is the monster. At times I was reminded of Rosemary's Baby though this film is not as broad in scope.

And the fact that the townspeople were unrealistically cruel to the protaganist was a device to explore the social pressures, expectations and judgements that women face in 1)Deciding whether or not to have children and 2)The way they raise their children.

I really don't think the movie is meant to be taken literally. It's really NOT about those specific cases wherein a child blows up a school. It speaks to any mother.

Absolutely terrifying. This one really stayed with me. And from what I've heard the movie backed off on the graphic details which was a wise choice. The movie would have been defined by the gory details instead of some of the chilling lines that stayed with me. The biggest being when Kevin is questioned about his computer virus disk:

Mother: "What's the point of having something like that?"

Kevin: "There IS no point. That's the point."

Makes me shiver. UGh.

This movie is like a more subtle, grounded Rosemary's Baby.

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covered by both films....but Rosemary's baby kinda veers off into other things too. 'Kevin' is more focused. best flick I've seen in awhile.

it is a nice way to view the film. either way. it was VERY good

I don't think I've seen a more frightening kid/teen in film than Kevin. Played to disturbing perfection.

Beautifully shot. I especially loved how some of Evas flashbacks were just sounds...and how they subtly became part of a disturbing film score even for scenes representing present day.

I enjoyed the score too....just googled it....had no idea that Jonny Greenwood (guitar player from Radiohead) did it.

it's one of the best parts of the film IMO. just very good all around. the film really stays with you after you're done watching

I didn't watch this as a horror, more like a psychological thriller.
What I found interesting is that they never explained what happened between Kevin and his mother. Seems like she was going through some type of mental breakdown during her pregnancy and I can't exactly say if the town people were really mean to her. I think it was a figment of her imagination.

Then she has Kevin and goes through postpartum depression that goes unaddressed. She never gets help for it and therefore is unable to ever bond with Kevin. That sets the tone for the whole film because he is smart enough to realize it.

but the kid was a jerk. the boy playing the young Kevin was great. Kevin really need an ass whupping though. I do appreciate the turn of events when he's sick and wants to be coddled by his mom and there is a hint that maybe, just maybe, they could get along. But then nope.

The end is just a culmination of all things happening during the movie. I will admit I laughed seeing how he used a bow and arrow to "shoot" up the school. This movie was literally a mother's worse nightmare. Pretty good I must say.

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Had no clue JCR played the Dad in this

It didn't work for me on any other level other than horror. Not quite believable enough...just one cruel act after another basically with not much substance in between.

But as an unsettling horror movie, it's great.

================================

why didn't Tilda just move? Lol

================================