"Moneyball" (Brad Pitt, Jonah Hill & Philip Seymour Hoffman):

http://recordinglivefromsomewhere.wordpress.com/2011/06/16/moneyball-miller-pitt-hill-seymour-hoffman-wright-pratt-morris-first-look-trailer/

“The story of Oakland A’s general manager Billy Beane’s successful attempt to put together a baseball club on a budget by employing computer-generated analysis to draft his players.”

Andy as Scott Hatteberg?! Inspired casting.
Co-written by the now Oscar-winning Aaron Sorkin.

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Same author for both books, but it looks like they took unconventional stories and made them into the most conventional movies possible.

Of course, there's no way this book would have been made into a movie if "The Blind Side" wasn't such a huge hit. But this probably didn't need to be a film anyway.

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>
>Of course, there's no way this book would have been made into
>a movie if "The Blind Side" wasn't such a huge hit. But this
>probably didn't need to be a film anyway.

Having Sorkin on board helps.

------------------------------

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I know his script was completely unconventional (and probably would have made ZERO money) but it would have been more interesting than shooting this as a straight underdog story and bending the real events to fit a simplistic narrative.

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Like, literally I don't know how you're
concluding any of this

Sorkin just turned a potential boring story
into a fantastic story (Social Newtork).

If he can make that story into a wildly entertaining
script, he can easily do the same with Moneyball

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O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

I was thinking while watching the trailer, "This could be Social Network-esque" and then I saw Sorkin wrote it.

Looks good to me. *shrug*

------------------------------

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I'm well aware that previews can make good movies look bad just as easily as they make bad movies look good, but that particular preview made it seem like any other Hollywood Sports Underdog film:

- Unconventional genius/free-thinker comes to hang-dog franchise and city and shocks everyone with his non-traditional way of doing things.

- Unconventional genius builds team around cast-offs who everyone counts out

- Things don't go so well in the beginning, which puts unconventional genius' livelihood in danger by people who are always doubted him

- Team wins the day on the backs of the lead cast-off who everyone doubted could do it.

Reads like the plot of "Bad News Bear: All Grown Up".* And the major problem is that almost none of it actually happened like that.

Yes, Sorkin is involved, so maybe the finished product is better than the preview suggests, but I'm REALLY skeptical right now.

*No disrespect to "Bad News Bears"; that's my favorite sports movie ever.

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I mean, there is snobby, and there's you.

You're on another level.

'Moneyball' is one of my favorite books of the last
decade and I saw that preview and was pleasantly
surprised at the tone.


>- Unconventional genius/free-thinker comes to hang-dog
>franchise and city and shocks everyone with his
>non-traditional way of doing things.

Weird. That's sort of what I thought about the book.

One of the lowest payrolls in baseball.

Team was full of castoffs and throwaways like
David Justice

Unconventional philosophy builds a winner.

That's what happened

Of course, the details are what made the book and
story great, but the preview seemed to capture
many of those details.

>- Unconventional genius builds team around cast-offs who
>everyone counts out

Well, Beane wasn't the genius, but he did surround
himself with smart people who knew what he was doing.

And the team did have some studs, but lots of castoffs
and throwaways. That is a fact. That is the real story.


>- Things don't go so well in the beginning, which puts
>unconventional genius' livelihood in danger by people who are
>always doubted him

That is actually what was in the book. That actually happened.

The A's ripped off one of the longest winning streaks ever
to win that division. That is actually a fact.

And him being doubted in the end is also in the book.

Joe Morgan hating on the A's in the playoffs that season by
saying they lost because they don't manufacture runs.


Not sure what you're crying about.



>- Team wins the day on the backs of the lead cast-off who
>everyone doubted could do it.

Don't know how the hell you got this.

The scene in the preview with that catcher who plays
first base was a true story. That happened. Forgot his
name. Dude never played first base, but Beane wanted the
lineup full of guys who got on base, and dude walked like
a machine.


>Reads like the plot of "Bad News Bear: All Grown Up".* And the
>major problem is that almost none of it actually happened like
>that.

You're going way, way, way, way, way, way too hard.


>Yes, Sorkin is involved, so maybe the finished product is
>better than the preview suggests, but I'm REALLY skeptical
>right now.

For no reason.

The preview was a cutesy catch preview but was pretty
faithful to the book

>*No disrespect to "Bad News Bears"; that's my favorite sports
>movie ever.

This movie has nothing to do with 'Bad News Bears'.

----------------------------

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O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

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I was fixing to charge you like Tanner lol

Avatar?
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I'll get back to the above response in a bit; got a deadline. Just wanted to say what up tho.

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For what it's worth, I heard Michael Lewis on the radio recently (on Chris Townsend's A's pre-game show actually) and he mentioned that he was really happy with how the film turned out. Can't guarantee that he wasn't just trying to sell the film to increase his slice of the pie, but I'm hopeful that the qualities that made the book so interesting translate onto the big screen.

I mean, if someone asked me to sell the public on a film about a topic as nerdy as constructing a baseball team the way you would your stock portfolio, I would put Brad Pitt in all but 10 seconds of the trailer too! But the cast -- Pitt, Wright, Hoffman -- is too accomplished not to give this the benefit of the doubt for now, at least until actual reviews come out.

>For what it's worth, I heard Michael Lewis on the radio
>recently (on Chris Townsend's A's pre-game show actually) and
>he mentioned that he was really happy with how the film turned
>out. Can't guarantee that he wasn't just trying to sell the
>film to increase his slice of the pie, but I'm hopeful that
>the qualities that made the book so interesting translate onto
>the big screen.

I'll be the cynic and say he was just talking it up because they probably paid him a shitload of money in the process of making the book. Almost all authors talk like that once the movie is about to come out.

>I mean, if someone asked me to sell the public on a film about
>a topic as nerdy as constructing a baseball team the way you
>would your stock portfolio, I would put Brad Pitt in all but
>10 seconds of the trailer too! But the cast -- Pitt, Wright,
>Hoffman -- is too accomplished not to give this the benefit of
>the doubt for now, at least until actual reviews come out.

I don't have a problem with Pitt, I have a problem portraying that A's season as a traditional underdog baseball story. I mean, you lived through it too. Beane had been building that franchise for like five seasons before 2002. The A's made the play-offs the previous two years. Beane's job was never in danger; the team had a bad two weeks early in the season where they were a whopping six games under /500 (much better than the current situation). They didn't win 103 games that season and 20 games in a row and made the play-offs because Beane took a chance and turned Scott Hatteberg into a first-baseman. They did all that because Miguel Tejada was the MVP, Zito was the Cy Young, and they had the best rotation in the game. This seems like fairly simplistic bullshit that they're pushing.

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>I don't have a problem with Pitt, I have a problem portraying
>that A's season as a traditional underdog baseball story. I
>mean, you lived through it too. Beane had been building that
>franchise for like five seasons before 2002. The A's made the
>play-offs the previous two years. Beane's job was never in
>danger; the team had a bad two weeks early in the season where
>they were a whopping six games under /500 (much better than
>the current situation). They didn't win 103 games that season
>and 20 games in a row and made the play-offs because Beane
>took a chance and turned Scott Hatteberg into a first-baseman.
>They did all that because Miguel Tejada was the MVP, Zito was
>the Cy Young, and they had the best rotation in the game. This
>seems like fairly simplistic bullshit that they're pushing.

But that was true with the source material. From the book you would think Chad Bradford was the key to the season. He got more run than Zito, Hudson and Mulder combined in that book.

On some c**dyman steez

Yeah, it's more of an underdog story but I'm not sure how else you make the book, besides as a documentary.

----
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I trust in the people in charge of this project to make it work. This ain't the scrubs who did Blind Side-- Bennett Miller and Aaron Sorkin is quite a combo.

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------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

The Twins win.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

The Twins then get served by the Angels.

Yes, I'm mad.

Fucking Howe never should have put Koch in during Game 5.

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well in the crowd scenes any way. They were trying to get me to come out with them but fuck going to sit in a half empty stadium at 2am with no real game being played.

I actually have mixed feelings on this movie as an A's fan. I like that we're getting shine but Billy Beane getting the Brad Pitt treatment kinda makes me sick. I'm sure they're going to make dude out to be a lot smarter and more successful than he really is.
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in OKS. I'm not as against Beane as you, considering this one of the years he ended up doing a lot right.

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I don't think he's awful or anything but I do think he puts too much into certain numbers when the eye ball test can tell you a lot more about the same player....... see Jack Cust.
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It was a big part of the book. And despite saying he didn't watch the games, he either a) Got constant updates (via up a ticker in his office and/or car) or b) just watched them onto TV or listened to the radio anyway.

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My point is you aren't doing your job if you can't sit down and watch the players you're putting on the field. I'm not against numbers at all... what I am against is the way Beane and his minions over at Athletics Nation think it's the end all. It's ignoring what you can see with your own eyes and just looking at a stat sheet that leads to people arguing Daric Barton had a "Great" year in 2010.... not good but great.
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I mean, Theo Epstein literally built the Red
Sox the same way, just with more money. Kevin Youkilis
was all over Moneyball as a prospect that Beane loved,
despite the fact that he was overall not too great
a prospect.




----------------------------

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O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

>I mean, Theo Epstein literally built the Red
>Sox the same way, just with more money. Kevin Youkilis
>was all over Moneyball as a prospect that Beane loved,
>despite the fact that he was overall not too great
>a prospect.

So was Jeremy Brown...

http://i.imgur.com/vPqCzVU.jpg

Having Zito, Mulder, Hudson all come up at once will help hide some issues. He also won one playoff series in his decade or so managing the team.

>Having Zito, Mulder, Hudson all come up at once will help
>hide some issues. He also won one playoff series in his decade
>or so managing the team.

Umm...only Mulder was a blue chip. The rest of those niggas
were throwaways who Beane liked. Like I said -- the sabremetrics
just formalized shit he had already been thinking...he smart in
choosing niggas for his team for a long time


Y'all just sound mad for some odd reason




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O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

If this was a E! True Baseball Story these 3 would be the prominent figures, its not, its a movie not based in reality. BUT because it has some truths in it its hard to accept the terrible mistruths.

The A's didnt trade Carlos Pena to the Tigers for some Mountain Dew, they got Ted Lilly who was kind of an okay pitcher. But again, a movie and Ted Lilly is not good for on screen drama.

http://i.imgur.com/vPqCzVU.jpg

as an A's fan, i should have read the book years ago. the movie looks interesting tho.

********************************************

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i've read moneyball years ago and enjoyed it and always liked billy's theory although i think it should only be used as a very good resource and not the end all be all of baseball scouting. either way, i've definitely been interested in this movie getting made since i heard about it years ago. i gotta say that i really wish soderbergh's script was being used though.

and what's up with paul depodesta's character having his name changed to peter brand? i know that jonah hill looks nothing like paul but they coulda just kept the same name and chalked it up to creative liberty within the movie. i think that demetri martin dude they casted in soderbergh's original movie woulda fit better (at least looks wise) than jonah hill but i digress. they shoulda threw my boy joseph gordon-levitt in as paul tho and really killed it but whatever.

and bill james has gotta have at least a bit part in this right?

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but I'd rather not relive this whole debate lol
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He facilitated the greatest play in postseason history.......too bad it was AGAINST the A's

http://i.imgur.com/vPqCzVU.jpg

http://kenlevine.blogspot.com/2006/10/if-aaron-sorkin-wrote-show-about.html

----
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The best scenes are the ones where men in power sit and talk about their jobs and conduct trades and talk business.

The worst scenes show baseball being played.

It should have stayed behind the scenes.

Pitt is good in it. Hoffman is totally wasted.

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>The worst scenes show baseball being played.


I saw the trailer and right away noticed some shitty swings and bat baseball.

November 8th, 2005 The greatest night in the history of GD!

Miller, Zaillian, Sorkin, Hoffman & Pitt all appeared to have just sleptwalked through this. Hill was ok but he's in no way able to save it from being one of the worst "baseball" or "sports" movies I've ever seen.

Maybe it's not their fault tho. Maybe this just wasn't a very good idea for a move from the start. There's certain ways to improve it but I think it ends up falling flat no matter what.

I know I'll see it sooner or later but it might be after it makes it to cable.
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Seriously, I'd bet anything that the movies gonna be about how Scott Hatteberg lead the A's to 103 wins and the play-offs. Which we both is patently false.

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There is the implication that Beane deserved the credit more than Howe for the number of wins, which I'm not sure how true it is.

Howe is a useless character, only presented to show this was achieved with a coach who didn't want to play the characters Beane wanted.

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>There is the implication that Beane deserved the credit more
>than Howe for the number of wins, which I'm not sure how true
>it is.

It's probably true. Howe was pretty much useless as a manager, and as soon as left the A's, he flamed out quickly coaching the Mets, where he was in completely over his head.

>Howe is a useless character, only presented to show this was
>achieved with a coach who didn't want to play the characters
>Beane wanted.

Well, that's only sorta true. Truth be told, by the 2002 season, Howe had been coaching under Beane for four seasons, and he knew the deal and the type of players Beane often brought in. And since they made the play-offs in '00, '01, and '02, and almost made it in '99 (while having the best home record in the league) with teams that were undeniably put together by Beane, the idea that he wouldn't want to play the players that Beane drafted/traded for is kinda ludicrous.

If anything, that season there was a problem with Howe playing players that Beane didn't want played. After a lousy week and a half stretch by the team (which I imagine the movie shows), Beane traded Jeremy Giambi for Jon Mabry, not expecting Mabry to actually play. Howe put him in the line-up and he started hitting like crazy. That was about the extent of the personnel tension between Beane and Howe for the season.

On a side note, I found it kind of hilarious that they used an actor as good as PSH to play Art Howe. Dude had the personality of a can of beige paint. I imagine they could have used a mannequin to play him.

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It's kind of sad.

Yeah, it sounds like it's only marginally sensationalized. They do feature the bad streak and the ballsy nature of the trades Beane made.

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>There is the implication that Beane deserved the credit more
>than Howe for the number of wins, which I'm not sure how true
>it is.
>
>Howe is a useless character, only presented to show this was
>achieved with a coach who didn't want to play the characters
>Beane wanted.

although i think Howe was presented as more of a puppet for Beane, haven't read the book in a while though.

At the end of Moneyball, the moral of the story should be sabermetrics <<< steroids.

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although the characters on those 70s & 80s teams would be much more interesting to see on the big screen.

but as hood already pointed out our issue is more with the way the team is being portrayed. To see those promos you wouldn't know the A's had the best staff in baseball and were no strangers to the post season. They just wanted to make the Bad News Bears with Brad Pitt.
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juiced up like Canseco and McGwire were

----
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You like your little wittle A's to be your
little wittle A's.

You don't want the rest of the world to know about
you or like you.

Its a popular book, its going to be a popular movie.

Its also a good movie.

The secret is out, DEAL WITH IT, nigga.


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O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

I call shennanigans

This looks more like a respectable "Major League"
-------------------
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The Big 3, Giambi and Tejada helped immensely in their "success" if you can even call it that....WOW good call Beane all diamonds in the rough there.

This is such a non movie/story imo.

http://i.imgur.com/vPqCzVU.jpg

>The Big 3, Giambi and Tejada helped immensely in their
>"success" if you can even call it that....WOW good call Beane
>all diamonds in the rough there.

Of those five, Giambi and Mulder were considered can't miss prospects. Hudson was too small, Zito didn't have a fast-ball, and Tejada had "attitude" problems. Most other teams would have traded Tejada away before he actually started playing consistently well in 2001.

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The reason Beane gravitated to the science was that
it matched his intuition already....nigga had ALREADY
been drafting and scouting niggas that way for years


LOL @ "That story ain't true!!! He had 4 GREAT PITCHERS!!!"


Ummm who found those niggas?


Beane.


Niggas need to stop being mad.




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O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

Like Longo already stated Hoffman was wasted. I found the movie to be well acted and well shot. But to me it was dull as shit. Jonah Hill was funny as fuck during the Q&A and then Bennet Miller showed up and turned a fun Q&A into a very awkward and painful Q&A.

------------------------------------------
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It was a well made version of a flawed story. Also, it is basically propaganda for sabermetrics and I wish that they would have been a little more even handed (at least have Beane acknowledge that the other scouts were right about Giambi's partying.) It also dragged at times.

Not bad but hardly the next great sports film that some critics are calling it.

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Cool look at the story, great cast, and inspired directing (I guess now I should check out Capote).

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Niggas overanalyzing it...y'all sound like a bunch of
bad major league baseball scouts


Who the fuck KNOWS why that team won all them games


The truth is, that APPROACH was bitten by niggas after
that, so the impact is the impact, so fall theee fock
back and let the film get its due


Its just not artsy enough for y'all because it features
athlete or something


And artsies never really gave Brad Pitt his due...the only
ones of you that like him are the ones that want to massage
his balls....the non-gay artsy fartsies don't like him...
...prolly cuz he hit the gym and do regular nigga shit, while
y'all eat expensive sandwiches and still keep a diary


Pitt don't do that metrosexual sissy shit...not since Legend
of the Fall, reall....since then he do regular dude roles for
the most part....y'all STAY underrating his acting


Sissy ass niggas





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"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

He's super talented as an actor.

I need to see him opposite Daniel Day.

************************

So of course I went along.

Good movie but it was hard to really get totally into it knowing the details like I do. I found it funny they make the Pena trade such a focal point... then I get home and see him hitting a HR that night for the Cubs lol

And if you've never been to Oakland you'd think the city is nothing but loading docks and a stadium.
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At its core this movie is really about Billy Beane, more specifically about his desire to try a new method to build a team (and also feed his own ego). It's about the old guard vs. new ideas. So even though it dragged in spots I wasn't concerned with the accuracy of the trades or who was or wasn't included in the story, since the movie's not a docudrama about the 2002 Oakland Athletics baseball season.

Brad did his thing, as did Jonah. I'm not upset with not seeing a lot of Philip Seymour Hoffman, since he was one of the representatives of The Old Guard. I liked the flashback device of seeing what led Billy Beane to the point in his life where he felt like trying some new shit in order to produce a winner. I liked hearing the voice overs of the former players/analysts shitting on sabermetrics. I liked the final title cards which played like one final cosmic joke on Billy Beane.

Anyway, this was solidly written, acted, and directed, and I fully expect that as the awards seasons accolades start coming in that we'll see op-ed pieces by and interviews from old players and ex-managers and experts questioning the "validity" and "accuracy" of what happened in this film. But just like the critics of The Hurt Locker and The Social Network, two other films that are *based* on true stories but not *about* those true stories (and there is a difference), they'll be off.

Two more notes: I believe that Sorkin that brought in late in the game after Sony restarted the project and did enough of a script polish to get a co-writing credit.

Also, (and this is probably familiar to Laker fans) when we heard/saw the character trait where Billy had to leave the arena because he couldn't watch the games, I couldn't help but be reminded of Mr. Jerry West. Not sure how "accurate" it is in relation to Billy Beane, but I didn't care.

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Back for 22 mo' -- January 2012

HAI HATERZ