It was just the first HBO programming that I remember watching and hearing a buzz about. Obviously Sopranos was a superior show but the first season or two of OZ was definately good television.
9. "But did non-cable TV step its game up after The Sopranos?" In response to Reply # 7 Thu Aug-06-09 04:09 PM by mrhood75
**Yeah, I know that's not what you were implying here, but work with me***
It's pretty much given that HBO, Showtime, FX, AMC, USA, etc. stepped it's game up after the Sopranos, but it's not like network TV is really doing anything special/different in the post-Sopranos universe. I mean, good network shows have come along since the Sopranos premiered, but none are really radically different than anything else that was already out there.
10. "i don't watch enough non cable shows to answer that one" In response to Reply # 9
in fact Lost and Friday Night Lights are only ones i can think of. i didn't even start catching up on those until last year when hbo withdrawals kicked in.
15. "They tried, and in some cases, failed" In response to Reply # 9 Thu Aug-06-09 06:52 PM by ZooTown74
And not in a specific, "let's copy The Sopranos and cast a bad guy as a lead character!" way, either...
All you need to know why the networks failed to produce shows of a consistent quality like The Sopranos is when, during one of the Television Critics meetings, (I believe it was) Jeff Zucker who copped the plea that The Sopranos was so well-regarded only because they could get away with cussing and showing tits while the network shows couldn't... as if the quality writing and acting had nothing to do with the show's success...
The folks at USA Network (Monk, Psych, Burn Notice) and FX (The Shield, Nip/Tuck, Damages) seem to understand that, like The Sopranos and other such shows, good television is mainly about having *compelling characters* (first and foremost) in compelling stories that are worth watching... that's the part of the formula that took a while for the networks to (re)figure out... they didn't have to "do anything radical" at all...
And in some cases, such as The Shield, other networks *did* nick The Sopranos by having a compelling and complex anti-hero as the lead character... ________________________________________________________________________
17. "not to cop pleas, but Network TV has it's hands tied by the FCC." In response to Reply # 9
we can't even see an "Accidental" titty on Live TV, so how can they write gritty shit without making it seem lame?
Even when they do and leave the adult content out for the DVD release ( see also: NBC's "Kingpin"), it still looks contrived. I saw the DVD of Kingpin and not the TV version, and I can see where they were writing gratuitous (violence and nudity )parts in just to keep pace with Cable. And it seemed VERY stilted.
18. "I think that's a weak excuse." In response to Reply # 17
Especially with stuff like The Shield and Damages on FX which has some FCC limitations. They could have figured out a way to make Dexter or Six Feet Under or countless other show suitable for network air. Even Sopranos could have been pretty damn good. They could tone down the nudity and language without losing much from True Blood (and that's a show that might be even benefit from commercial breaks since it's built to have constant "What'll happen next?!" moments.)
20. "I think Oz was the precursor to this age of television..." In response to Reply # 1
It had its problems, but I think it allowed HBO to see what direction they could potentially head in.
The Sopranos got the formula right, Oz was the prototype. Kinda like all those black soldiers they tested the super soldier serum on before they made Captain America.
"Jack of all trades, master of none, though ofttimes better than master of one"-Anonymous
The sharpest sword is a word spoken in wrath;the deadliest poison is covetousness;the fiercest fire is hatred; the darkest night is ignorance.-The Buddha
6. "It was the most influential in the new cable era." In response to Reply # 0
But some of the guys who influenced that era made their names in 1993-1994 boon years for networks: NYPD Blue, Northern Exposure, ER, Homicide, Frasier, Friends, etc.
16. "I thought you were making an argument about "ground breaking"" In response to Reply # 12
>Northern Exposure and I'll Fly Away were produced by David >Chase and they probably helped him. > >Friends definitely influenced the 20-something sit-coms that >you see today. Frasier was just a great sit-com and helped >bring back the office sit-com.
Which is I think what folks mean when they talk about the Sopranos. I don't think those 3 "changed the game" so to speak.
13. "The Sopranos was really the first show to ask its audience to alternatel..." In response to Reply # 11 Thu Aug-06-09 06:43 PM by ZooTown74
root for and cheer against its protagonist; it literally gave you insight into the mindset of the anti-hero, helped you find empathy in his story, identify with his pathos (pass the latte), and also implicitly (and sometimes explicitly) make you question why you liked this guy in the first place...
Oz didn't do any of that, it wasn't nearly as complex, so therefore it's not seen as being as groundbreaking...
And as good as those first two or three seasons of Oz were, they weren't as *consistently* as good and well-written as The Sopranos were over the entire run of the show... ________________________________________________________________________
21. "Also I think it's difficult to call this a golden age when Network TV" In response to Reply # 0
is so shitty, reality TV is dominating the airwaves, and while there are some good new shows out there (Hung, nurse jackie), overall the premium networks don't have heavy hitters like the Sopranos or The Wire or Dead Wood at the moment.
I mean maybe it is a golden era and we're just in an in between year...but I'm not that impressed with the state of TV at the moment.
Also...fuck Trueblood...
"Jack of all trades, master of none, though ofttimes better than master of one"-Anonymous
The sharpest sword is a word spoken in wrath;the deadliest poison is covetousness;the fiercest fire is hatred; the darkest night is ignorance.-The Buddha
23. "I don't know if its fair to call network tv shitty in 2009" In response to Reply # 21 Fri Aug-07-09 07:22 AM by BigReg
Mediocre maybe. Imho, drama's overall are as strong as I have ever seen them on network tv, and you have some very solid well written sitcoms to balance out the reality tv invasion.
>is so shitty, reality TV is dominating the airwaves, and >while there are some good new shows out there (Hung, nurse >jackie), overall the premium networks don't have heavy hitters >like the Sopranos or The Wire or Dead Wood at the moment. > >I mean maybe it is a golden era and we're just in an in >between year...but I'm not that impressed with the state of TV >at the moment. > >Also...fuck Trueblood... > > > >"Jack of all trades, master of none, though ofttimes better >than master of one"-Anonymous > > >The sharpest sword is a word spoken in wrath;the deadliest >poison is covetousness;the fiercest fire is hatred; the >darkest night is ignorance.-The Buddha
24. "Perhaps I was being a bit hyperbolic..." In response to Reply # 23 Fri Aug-07-09 07:57 AM by Lardlad95
Still, overall I was pretty unimpressed with network TV this past season. Even the shows I like kinda felt like they were falling flat.
"Jack of all trades, master of none, though ofttimes better than master of one"-Anonymous
The sharpest sword is a word spoken in wrath;the deadliest poison is covetousness;the fiercest fire is hatred; the darkest night is ignorance.-The Buddha
29. "Lost is actually that golden age winding down. " In response to Reply # 21
when taht show ends, the era ends with it.
oz, sopranos, the wire, the shield, deadwood (so i hear), lost, etc represent that "golden age". we are no longer in that age, and some shows from that are on the way out. golden age is a past tense, though it wasn't technically used that way./
-Sig-
“Why didn’t you do this in your own god damn country?"
-All Stah's view on undocumented immigrants wanting to be treated like human beings.
25. "I think it has a lot to with selling shows on DVD too" In response to Reply # 0
As much as I love the Sopranos (y'all are aware that I like the show, right...I mean I think I've been pretty clear on that) I think creators are trying to make season long films with the thought that people will be checking for this show with their wallets.
31. "you wanna know something weird?" In response to Reply # 26
I own every season of "The Office" ( both NBC and BBC ), and believe it or not, I haven't really watched them.
I watched S2 of the NBC version, and I watched the entire run of the BBC version once. But the rest of them are unopened. Like, still in the shrinkwrap, even.
In retrospect, I don't think that's a series that needs to be watched over and over. It's definitely one of my favorite shows, but not to the point where I'd watch it again and again, like "The Wire".
And now that the NBC version is going into syndication, I REALLY feel stupid.
*should've bought all the seasons of "Rescue Me" instead*
28. "oz-sopranos as supreme clientele-blueprint. and soap operas. " In response to Reply # 0
oz is the gritty, grimey, unpolished forerunne; it laid the foundation.
sopranos took many of the bare elements that made oz the show it was, spit shined the formula and made it work for the masses. at the end of the day it really was the sopranos that served as the true catalyst for the direction tv has gone in since.... but in the same vein as the blueprint, it owes a portion of its dynamic to its more underground predecessor.
when people were doing the sped up soul music, most of them were imitating kanye and just blaze, while that duo imitated ayatollah, alchemist, mathematics, rza, and co.
oz laid the groundwork for the show that laid the groundwork, if that makes sense. that isn't to say that many shows wouldn't exist- but the sopranos did tv in such a way that it engaged viewers like a soap would.
so truthfully, they are both simply taking basic soap opera formulas and building grittier, darker worlds using the same skeleton.
-Sig-
“Why didn’t you do this in your own god damn country?"
-All Stah's view on undocumented immigrants wanting to be treated like human beings.
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