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Subject: "Okayplayer Movie Club: Nashville by Robert Altman" This topic is locked.
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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
82608 posts
Tue Dec-05-06 09:11 PM

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"Okayplayer Movie Club: Nashville by Robert Altman"


  

          

Rent. Watch. Discuss.

For beer lovers: http://thebeertravelguide.com
For movie lovers: http://russellhainline.com

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
not that I'm a part of what y'all got going on
Dec 02nd 2006
1
quick question: for how long?
Dec 03rd 2006
2
I figured it'd be 2 weeks long before the next poll goes up.
Dec 03rd 2006
3
and here I thought you meant "how long" did you watch it for?
Dec 04th 2006
8
if there is a torrent out there for this, sum1 plz enlighten me
Dec 04th 2006
4
I'd be stunned if your nearest public library doesn't have it.
Dec 04th 2006
5
      im too lazy. need torrent.
Dec 04th 2006
6
This is a movie where I must say I just dont "get" it
Dec 04th 2006
7
Make mine a double.
Dec 04th 2006
9
Amen
Dec 04th 2006
10
      well, I'd say things are off to a great start!
Dec 04th 2006
11
           Lol
Dec 04th 2006
12
                RE: Lol
Dec 05th 2006
13
                     Listen to this man...
Dec 05th 2006
14
                     For me it wasnt so much "boring" as it was "rambling"
Dec 05th 2006
15
                     RE: For me it wasnt so much "boring" as it was "rambling"
Dec 05th 2006
17
                     yeah i know, and i dont know how i feel about that
Dec 05th 2006
20
                          RE: yeah i know, and i dont know how i feel about that
Dec 05th 2006
21
                          Altman says in the commentary that he doesn't care for country music
Dec 09th 2006
29
                     i think like an hour and a half of the movie is just music
Dec 05th 2006
18
                          read it after i saw the movie
Dec 05th 2006
19
                     I should clarify
Dec 14th 2006
41
I've seen this once.
Dec 06th 2006
22
One of my very favorite films
Dec 07th 2006
23
Equal to Rules of the Game?
Dec 11th 2006
35
Nashville showing on TCM Saturday night (the 9th)
Dec 08th 2006
24
My thoughts on Nashville (with lots of Spoilers)
Dec 08th 2006
25
great analysis
Dec 08th 2006
26
I don't think it's off topic, I thought the same thing.
Dec 08th 2006
27
RE: great analysis
Dec 08th 2006
28
It preaches to the choir
Dec 09th 2006
30
      RE: It preaches to the choir
Dec 10th 2006
31
      I didn't get into either of those characters
Dec 10th 2006
33
           RE: I didn't get into either of those characters
Dec 12th 2006
38
                RE: I didn't get into either of those characters
Dec 12th 2006
39
                     best idea of the discussion
Dec 12th 2006
40
      Not sure what you mean by one-sided
Dec 10th 2006
32
           Understated emotion from over the top characters doesn't work IMO
Dec 10th 2006
34
I tried but couldn't get through it...
Dec 11th 2006
36
It did have a lot going on but....
Dec 11th 2006
37

ricky_BUTLER
Member since Jul 06th 2003
16899 posts
Sat Dec-02-06 06:21 PM

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1. "not that I'm a part of what y'all got going on"
In response to Reply # 0


          

but my one suggestion would be to pay attention to the sound, even listen with headphones on if you can. there's whole other world in the background of Altman films.

good luck

  

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dro
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Sun Dec-03-06 09:58 AM

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2. "quick question: for how long?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

like, how long will this be the okaymovieclub movie? 3 weeks, so netflix people get it?

just wondering. i want to participate in the movie club, but can't really for 2 more weeks. not saying "hey, wait up for me!" or anything, just wondering what the time frame for discussion is gonna be for each movie. thanks.

peace
mike

http://theonlyblogthatmatters.wordpress.com
http://www.last.fm/user/mdrohan/

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
82608 posts
Sun Dec-03-06 11:40 AM

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3. "I figured it'd be 2 weeks long before the next poll goes up."
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

That way, Netflixies can get it at least by Week 2...at least, this is my understanding due to what people told me in the other post.

For beer lovers: http://thebeertravelguide.com
For movie lovers: http://russellhainline.com

  

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biscuit
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Mon Dec-04-06 08:27 PM

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8. "and here I thought you meant "how long" did you watch it for?"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

cause I only got about 30 minutes in before I gave up.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

*Effasig*

  

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araQual
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Mon Dec-04-06 09:22 AM

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4. "if there is a torrent out there for this, sum1 plz enlighten me"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

V.

---
http://confessionsofacurlymind.com
https://soundcloud.com/confessionsofacurlymindredux
https://soundcloud.com/generic80sbadguy
https://soundcloud.com/miles_matheson

DROkayplayerâ„¢

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
82608 posts
Mon Dec-04-06 09:47 AM

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5. "I'd be stunned if your nearest public library doesn't have it."
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

For beer lovers: http://thebeertravelguide.com
For movie lovers: http://russellhainline.com

  

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araQual
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Mon Dec-04-06 10:25 AM

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6. "im too lazy. need torrent."
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

if all else fails ill go snoopin around for it...once i get paid...next MONDAY aaarrhhhhgg crap!

V.

---
http://confessionsofacurlymind.com
https://soundcloud.com/confessionsofacurlymindredux
https://soundcloud.com/generic80sbadguy
https://soundcloud.com/miles_matheson

DROkayplayerâ„¢

  

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DubSpt
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13933 posts
Mon Dec-04-06 06:01 PM

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7. "This is a movie where I must say I just dont "get" it"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I dont know, it just doesnt work for me.

Now, if this was a McCabe & Mrs. Miller post... I'd be down like a frown.

Nonetheless, maybe discussion on this film could open it back up for me, but I think it may just not be for me.

- Dub

I give rappers the biz for being m-izza-a-archaic.

  

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biscuit
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Mon Dec-04-06 08:28 PM

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9. "Make mine a double."
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

I'm with you my brethen.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

*Effasig*

  

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Deebot
Member since Oct 21st 2004
26581 posts
Mon Dec-04-06 09:46 PM

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10. "Amen"
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

================================

"Brownsville, never ran never will unless you strapped and I'm not fuck it I gotta peel, P!"

-Sean Price

  

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buckshot defunct
Member since May 02nd 2003
26345 posts
Mon Dec-04-06 09:56 PM

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11. "well, I'd say things are off to a great start!"
In response to Reply # 10


  

          


-----------------------------
http://talestosuffice.com/
@kennykeil

  

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Deebot
Member since Oct 21st 2004
26581 posts
Mon Dec-04-06 10:11 PM

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12. "Lol"
In response to Reply # 11


  

          

I own the movie, so watching it again crossed my mind when i saw this was picked, but i don't think i want to because it was long, boring and i hate country music.

================================

"Brownsville, never ran never will unless you strapped and I'm not fuck it I gotta peel, P!"

-Sean Price

  

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King_Friday
Member since Nov 22nd 2002
3087 posts
Tue Dec-05-06 12:06 AM

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13. "RE: Lol"
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

>but i don't think i want to because it
>was long, boring

I hope you'll give it another try. I love the movie myself. I'm going to watch it again and try and contribute to the discussion here. . . but at the very least you ought to say why you didn't like it (beyond the generic "long" and "boring" description).

If you thought it was boring, why? What, for you, was missing? What do you think of other Altman movies and how or why was your reaction to Nashville different or the same in relation to the others.

This movie club post should have lots of in-depth discussion. And it should come from both people who like the movie and people who don't.

Both opinions are perfectly valid, but they both deserve some explanation.

So please, explain.

>and i hate country music.

Sir, these are just fighting words.

In the name of Hank Williams, Johnny Cash, Ernest Tubb, Jimmie Rodgers, Willie Nelson, and all that is holy. . . you must repent before it's too late.








  

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okaycomputer
Member since Dec 02nd 2002
8090 posts
Tue Dec-05-06 10:33 AM

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14. "Listen to this man..."
In response to Reply # 13


          

re: country music.

he'll convert you if you let your gaurd down.

I was a hater and am now a convert, hell, I even own an S-10 now.


As far as Nashville goes, I own it, but fell asleep the only time I tried to watch it. I'll give it another go sometime this week. This is a perfect pick for me, I've been meaning to watch this again.

  

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DubSpt
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Tue Dec-05-06 03:34 PM

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15. "For me it wasnt so much "boring" as it was "rambling""
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

And I tried watching it a few times hoping that it would all come together for me.

I simply just didnt understand what it was trying to go for. Is it a human movie? Is it a political movie? Is it just a movie about country music? I think it is all of those things, but it works out to be none of those things because it is too moment-in-time if you will. There are several interesting stories (Lily Tomlin and Keith Carradine's relationship, the woman who wants to be a singer and ends up being... well I won't spoil that for the people who havent seen it, the lead country singers pomposity but ultimate vulnerability) there is a lot going on to like. But for me it was kind of like taking several of your favorite foods, mixing them together, and calling it a stew. Several of the parts may be good, but that doesnt necessarily make the whole good. I may watch it again and be changed because it could be that I can't see the forest for the trees, but to me it is like listening to a story by an old man who ends up telling you nothing by telling you everything.

- Dub

I give rappers the biz for being m-izza-a-archaic.

  

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Sponge
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Tue Dec-05-06 05:36 PM

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17. "RE: For me it wasnt so much "boring" as it was "rambling""
In response to Reply # 15


          

>Is it just a movie about country music?

A few articles have mentioned that Altman said he wasn't concerned with the real Nashville or country music. I haven't seen a direct quote or filmed interview clip, though.





  

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DubSpt
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Tue Dec-05-06 07:15 PM

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20. "yeah i know, and i dont know how i feel about that"
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

Because, at least in my opinion, if you set something as your backdrop it should be at least a little bit important because it is a part of what informs your characters and the story you want to tell. Altman can swear all day and all night it isnt a movie about country music (and obviously it isnt JUST about country music) but the characters feelings and motivations are partially shown through their music, especially since most of the actors wrote their own music for the film. I think if one wants to argue for the film and remove the music than they will lose a large portion of why and how the characters interact, which is often times the most important thing in Altman's films, or anyone elses for that matter.

- Dub

I give rappers the biz for being m-izza-a-archaic.

  

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Sponge
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Tue Dec-05-06 08:06 PM

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21. "RE: yeah i know, and i dont know how i feel about that"
In response to Reply # 20


          

>Because, at least in my opinion, if you set something as your
>backdrop it should be at least a little bit important because
>it is a part of what informs your characters and the story you
>want to tell.

That's an issue of creative/artistic license and integrity, I think. Is authenticity a valid criticism for a film that didn't seek authenticity? Obviously this question is based on the circulated notion that Altman wasn't concerned with real country music or Nashville. Hopefully OKP's country music aficionados will post about its degree of authenticity or lack thereof.

>Altman can swear all day and all night it isnt
>a movie about country music (and obviously it isnt JUST about
>country music) but the characters feelings and motivations are
>partially shown through their music, especially since most of
>the actors wrote their own music for the film.

Yes, country music is vital to the film, as a device. The form of the device (in this case country music) doesn't necessarily have to be the main content/subject of the film. Does the importance of the device require the device's form to be authentic? In terms of fulfilling the artwork in terms of narrative, plot, etc. - no; but in terms of integrity, validity, morals, or values - depends on the individual.



  

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
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Sat Dec-09-06 11:15 PM

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29. "Altman says in the commentary that he doesn't care for country music"
In response to Reply # 20


          

He doesn't say it in those words but he says that most of the music in Nashville isn't good. I understand his point for making some of the music bad (it's realistic and not some Hollywood, everyone could be a star if they got the shot treatment) but it also reaks of someone who doesn't like Nashville commenting on Nashville. I could imagine this as a Michael Moore type documentary.

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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Deebot
Member since Oct 21st 2004
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Tue Dec-05-06 05:40 PM

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18. "i think like an hour and a half of the movie is just music"
In response to Reply # 15
Tue Dec-05-06 05:45 PM by Deebot

  

          

i'm serious. I don't like that.

and that reminds me, if you wanna read up on this just check out Ebert's great movies list. but don't read it if you haven't seen the movie before.

================================

"Brownsville, never ran never will unless you strapped and I'm not fuck it I gotta peel, P!"

-Sean Price

  

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DubSpt
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19. "read it after i saw the movie"
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

Didnt really agree with his assessment of it.

- Dub

I give rappers the biz for being m-izza-a-archaic.

  

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Deebot
Member since Oct 21st 2004
26581 posts
Thu Dec-14-06 06:56 PM

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41. "I should clarify"
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

>>and i hate country music.
>
>Sir, these are just fighting words.
>
>In the name of Hank Williams, Johnny Cash, Ernest Tubb, Jimmie
>Rodgers, Willie Nelson, and all that is holy. . . you must
>repent before it's too late.

I like Roy Orbison alot

================================

"Brownsville, never ran never will unless you strapped and I'm not fuck it I gotta peel, P!"

-Sean Price

  

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damngirlobserver
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Wed Dec-06-06 08:36 PM

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22. "I've seen this once."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

And it was awhile ago, so I apologize ahead of time if what I say isn't very in depth or even doesn't make sense.

It took me a long time (45-60 minutes) to get a sense of who the characters were, and even by the end I can't say I ever cared about them. But I don't think Altman ever tried to generate any empathy in the first place. It all seemed very matter of fact, which I tend to like in movies because it seems more realistic.

And even now I'm not sure I understood what the point was. Not that the film needed a point. It didn't start off like a movie that had a point, so it's ok that it never got around to having one. Once again, very matter of fact and realistic.

The one thing I got out of watching it was the way that Nashville seemed to be outside of reality, or at least seemed to have its own reality. Some fairly irregular shit went down, and in public, but no one blinked. It got brushed aside and on went the show. It was almost like the whole city was a variety show, with a little bit of this and a little bit of that.

Anyhow, those are my thoughts.

And I also enjoyed McCabe and Mrs. Miller more. But probably because it was a more "traditional" type of film story, and easier to digest. Not as ambitious, although ambitious in its own way.

"Hypocrisy is the ultimate form of intellectual freedom." - Walleye

  

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colonelk
Member since Dec 10th 2002
5056 posts
Thu Dec-07-06 12:39 AM

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23. "One of my very favorite films"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

A great work of art. Maybe even the equal of Rules of the Game.

No, I wasn't personally alive in '75, but I don't think there's been a better portrait of a time and place than this film. This film really is about post-Vietnam, post-Watergate America. Is it a comprehensive, encyclopedic look? Of course not. That's how you get a shitty mini-series like "The Sixties." But this is film is an incisive, moving look at a confused, hurt, scared nation that was just waiting for the Reagan 80s to make them feel better. And by nation, I do, in fact, mean, middle-America white protestants (thus the brilliant decision to make a political film not in D.C. but in the country music capital).

Regarding empathy: it's true that Altman fiercely resists using technique to help the viewer empathize with his characters. Some will find themselves reacting fairly coldly to the first time through. Yet Altman keeps not an ironic distance, but a polite one. My suspicion is that Altman, like Antonioni, resists emotional string-pulling not out of lack of ability but because he is genuinely moved more easily than most of us. And if you give this film a chance with repeat viewings, you'll be moved too.

The characters are all wonderful and all have independent lives which avoid and defy explanation. Look at the Sunday morning sequence: who is in which church? Who isn't in church? Which couples are in different places? The answers aren't what we'd expect, but none of it is deliberately making any sort of "point."

The culmination of one of the greatest 5-year runs in film history:

MASH (1970)
Brewster McCloud (1970)
McCabe & Mrs. Miller (1971)
Images (1972)
The Long Goodbye (1973)
Thieves Like Us (1974)
California Split (1974)
Nashville (1975)

I think Altman made some great films after this run, but he was clearly in a magic zone (ala Sturges 40-44, Godard 59-65), probably the result of being creatively denied for so long.










--------

hell-below.com

  

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DubSpt
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Mon Dec-11-06 02:06 AM

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35. "Equal to Rules of the Game?"
In response to Reply # 23


  

          

What?




















What?

- Dub

I give rappers the biz for being m-izza-a-archaic.

  

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King_Friday
Member since Nov 22nd 2002
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Fri Dec-08-06 12:52 AM

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24. "Nashville showing on TCM Saturday night (the 9th)"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Nashville will be shown on Turner Classic Movies at 12:30 AM Eastern on the night of Dec. 9th (that's Saturday Night/Sunday Morning). In widescreen with no commercials of course.

  

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King_Friday
Member since Nov 22nd 2002
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Fri Dec-08-06 01:34 AM

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25. "My thoughts on Nashville (with lots of Spoilers)"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I just watched Nashville again for the third or fourth time so I could have it fresh in my mind for this here club of ours. I really love the movie.

I think Nashville presents a kind of unmasking of America, or at least part of America. Watching this movie is like seeing a crack in a "brave face" someone puts on themselves where some of the insecurities and hard times finally start showing through.

America was a hell of a place when Nashville was made and released. There was Watergate and Nixon's resignation, widespread unemployment, the Vietnam War was coming to an ugly end. . . and yet. . . what is Haven Hamilton singing when we first meet him in the opening of the movie? "We must be doing something right to last 200 years." It's almost like he's trying to convince himself of something. And what does he say after the shooting at the end of the movie? "This can't happen in Nashville". "This isn't Dallas". And finally "Somebody sing." He says it over and over. "Somebody sing". It's like he's trying to plug up a leak before his boat sinks. Reality has broken through and he's trying like hell to force things back to the way they were before. This is one of the major themes of the movie.

Another major theme of the movie is the unhealthy world of celebrity, "success", and unfulfilled dreams (everyone wants to be a singer or performer. . . even the magician who pops up here and there is constantly doing his act). This theme is best illustrated in the stories of my two favorite characters, Sueleen Gay and Barbara Jean.

In Barbara Jean's character we see the all-too familiar way in which the celebrity world--whether centered in Nashville or Hollywood--can destory people in the drive for fame and wealth. Barbara Jean doesn't want to perform anymore. . . in her on-stage meltdown she says she's worked non-stop since childhood. At this point she's just being exploited by her husband/manager. In fact it seems like everyone wants to use her, to exploit her. Even in her hospital room she can't get a moment of peace.

One of the most remarkable scenes in the whole movie is her near-breakdown in her hospital room when her husband/manager says that incredible line to her: "Don't tell me how to run your life, I been doing pretty good with it."

Barbara Jean's story only makes the other stories in the movie all the more tragic. Here is the dream everyone else--especially Sueleen Gay--wants. But we can see how much it's really worth. The other people have no idea. From the outside it all looks very glamorous.

Sueleen Gay's story (she's the tone-deaf, airport cafe waitress who wants to be a singer) provides some of the best moments in the movie. The striptease scene is one of the most painful to watch in the whole film.

In the first place, here we see the ugly face of the political relations of the populist Replacement Party candidate whose campaign we've witnessed throughout the movie. It's a bunch of horrible men throwing around cash in a back room. And here this poor woman is thrown to them like meat to a pack of wolves.

She finally compromises herself and agrees to strip because it might put her one step closer to being a star. She's promised she can be on stage with Barbara Jean. She want to be Barbara Jean. And what we know of Barbara Jean's story only makes Sueleen's story that much sadder. Gwen Welles, the actress who played Sueleen, is incredible in that political fundraiser scene and throughout the whole movie.

Altman's direction is never sensational in Nashville. He stays in a far-away wide shot in places a lesser director would've used close-ups or lots of editing. A shot he comes back to again and again is one that starts from a wide shot and slowly zooms in to a focal point. . . an action or a character's face. In this way he presents us first with a context, an environment, and then zeroes in on the character it's effecting. This shows both the way the world effects the characters and shows us how they're alienated from that world as well.

The assassination of Barbara Jean makes for a pretty disturbing end to the movie. Even more disturbing than the shooting itself, is what follows. After Haven Hamilton's pleading, a song is started up. And slowly but surely the whole crowd at the event begins to sing along. They've all just witnessed a murder, but they stand there singing just as if nothing at all had happened. They sing for quite a while. . . Altman lingers on the scene. The whole thing has the feeling of a happy ending. Of people coming together after a tragedy. It's almost pleasant until you consider the words they're singing: "You may say that I ain't free, but it don't worry me."

It's this delusional reassurance. . . like Haven Hamilton singing "We must be doing something right" at the beginning of the film that leaves you with the feeling that the whole cycle is about to start up again. The brave face we've seen falling apart for the past 2 and a half hours is going up again. It's all swept under the rug again. But only until the next cracks start to appear, that is, only until the tensions in such a society express themselves in another violent scenario.

"You may say that I ain't free, but it don't worry me."

Of course that's not a very hopeful idea. No one in the Altman universe--Altman most of all--is able to see a way out of this doomed cycle of events. Perhaps that's one of the director's flaws as an artist. Maybe he never fully worked through the problems he dealt with in his art. But what's there is pretty great anyway.

Altman was probably the best director of that whole "new wave" in American cinema--which probably started with Arthur Penn in the late 60s and lasted to the late 70s/very early 80s.

Nashville is one of his greatest achievements. Some of his other great films are "Thieves Like Us", "McCabe And Mrs. Miller", "The Long Goodbye", and "A Wedding". All of those and Nashville are my most favorite of his many films anyway.

You know, I think it's time for a major reassessment of that American New Wave period in film. Scorsese and Coppola have been considered the very best it had to offer for a long time now. I don't see it that way myself.

I much prefer the films of Altman, Arthur Penn, George Romero, Hal Ashby, and Michael Cimino for example.

I mean George Romero, for all his shortcomings, technical sloppiness, low budgets, and bad actors said more about American society than either Scorsese or Coppola at their best ever did.

Just my opinion of course.





  

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colonelk
Member since Dec 10th 2002
5056 posts
Fri Dec-08-06 01:37 PM

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26. "great analysis"
In response to Reply # 25


  

          

I hope we get more of this in the club. I couldn't agree more on Nashville.

I also agree that Altman, Ashby, and Cimino (plus Monte Hellman, Jerry Schatzberg, and a few others) deserve much more 70s esteem than they tend to get. But you really don't think the first two Godfathers have anything to say about American society? Not to get off topic...

--------

hell-below.com

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
82608 posts
Fri Dec-08-06 01:48 PM

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27. "I don't think it's off topic, I thought the same thing."
In response to Reply # 26


  

          

After I read that comment, I thought, "Now HERE we go!" LOL

For beer lovers: http://thebeertravelguide.com
For movie lovers: http://russellhainline.com

  

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King_Friday
Member since Nov 22nd 2002
3087 posts
Fri Dec-08-06 10:08 PM

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28. "RE: great analysis"
In response to Reply # 26
Fri Dec-08-06 10:10 PM by King_Friday

  

          

>I hope we get more of this in the club.

I see the club as a great opportunity for really in-depth, spoiler-rich discussion of movies. We spend a lot of time making lists or handing out recommendations here. . . which is fine with me, I love a good list. And we don't want to ruin movies for people by telling them what happens so we don't go into much detail on why certain movies are great. That's understandable. But in the club, where we know everyone is going to be watching then coming in here to discuss a particular movie. . . and with Frank saying this club ought to be about a cinematic education or sorts. . . I think we should go all out with the discussion.

>But you really don't think
>the first two Godfathers have anything to say about American
>society? Not to get off topic...
>
>

No, I didn't mean that at all. The first two godfather movies--especially the second one--have plenty to say about American society. I didn't mean to dismiss those movies (and certainly not The Conversation or Apocalypse Now either).

I consider myself a fan of all those Coppola movies, and certain Scorsese movies too (especially Mean Streets).

Still, I do believe that Altman tapped into something about American society much deeper than they did.

And however crude his technique may have been, Romero's "The Crazies", "Season Of The Witch", and "Dawn Of The Dead" are truly remarkable in their treatment of life in America.

Arthur Penn's "Night Moves" is as good as any movie released during that whole period.

That's how I feel about it, but I also think the second Godfather movie is an essential, must-see film from that period too.

I just think other filmmakers are more deserving of a place at the top.






  

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
25919 posts
Sat Dec-09-06 11:29 PM

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30. "It preaches to the choir"
In response to Reply # 25


          

I understand Altman's point but, for me, its over the top, borderline cartoonish. Altman didn't care for Nashville or the South and that shows. There's no real heroes, nobody is working towards anything all that positive. Even when the one woman reaches her dream, it is a sign of how we're able to overlook issues in hopes of maintaining the dream of a status quo. One question I would ask is this: if a one-sided movie like this came out about hip hop, people would be up in arms about the portrayal of the culture.

And the understated nature of many of the relationships dulls the drama/emotion. For me, it's a film you appreciate more than actually getting caught up in. This is Altman's statement but I prefer a film that raises questions rather than just gives one side of the story.

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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King_Friday
Member since Nov 22nd 2002
3087 posts
Sun Dec-10-06 01:20 AM

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31. "RE: It preaches to the choir"
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

>Altman didn't care for Nashville or
>the South and that shows.

I actually think Nashville is one of Altman's least judgemental movies. Especially when you compare it to something like MASH which is really cruel in its treatment of some of the characters.

>There's no real heroes, nobody is
>working towards anything all that positive.

Why do we need a hero in the movie? Or in any movie for that matter? Even in genre movies like westerns or crime movies, the best ones always explore moral ambiguities and blur lines between the "good guys" and "bad guys".

If there's no heroes in Nashville, there aren't any villains either. That's not to say there aren't acts of cruelty on the one hand or compassion on the other in Nashville. There are. But it's more complicated than that, just like life.

>if a one-sided movie
>like this came out about hip hop, people would be up in arms
>about the portrayal of the culture.
>

Well, look, I can tell you this: there is probably no kind of music on this earth I like more than country music. And I'm not at all "up in arms" about the portrayal of it or Nashville in general in this film. By and large the music being produced in Nashville then was slick and plastic. It wasn't very good. And it's only gotten worse since then.

But "Nashville", the movie, isn't really about country music. It's much more about celebrity and people holding onto a dream that won't come true for them. In that sense the country music scene in Nashville is more of a metaphor, a stand in for the bigger "American Dream".

>And the understated nature of many of the relationships dulls
>the drama/emotion. For me, it's a film you appreciate more
>than actually getting caught up in.

Fair enough. But I must say I don't share that opinion. I find it a very involving movie. Especially the stories of Barbara Jean and Sueleen Gay.

  

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
25919 posts
Sun Dec-10-06 12:31 PM

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33. "I didn't get into either of those characters"
In response to Reply # 31


          

"If there's no heroes in Nashville, there aren't any villains either."

I think Triplett is pretty much a villain. Tom is pretty much a villain. Haven is pretty much a villain since he adds nothing. Barbara Jean's husband could have been a villian or could have been a fatally flawed hero, if everything he was doing was out of love but it could go either way. For me, I saw a lot of potential in some of the relationships but I didn't think any were really fleshed out.

Having real life relationships works if you have real life characters. But most of the characters in this film seemed like caricatures so it didn't fit that their relationships would then be "real".

"Fair enough. But I must say I don't share that opinion. I find it a very involving movie. Especially the stories of Barbara Jean and Sueleen Gay."

My issue is that neither of them had an arc. They were downhill the whole time. Same with L.A. Joan and her uncle. Most of the characters just seemed pathetic.

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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King_Friday
Member since Nov 22nd 2002
3087 posts
Tue Dec-12-06 05:43 AM

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38. "RE: I didn't get into either of those characters"
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

>Tom is pretty much
>a villain.

Really? A "villain"? Honestly, I think putting him (or any of the other characters for that matter) into such a generic, ready-made mold only serves to prevent our understanding them better. Lots of different people are lots of different shades of good and bad, no?

Just as in real life, we ought to consider the people in Nashville--their actions or inactions--in relation to the world in which they live. To quote Leon Trotsky from his autobiography "My Life":

"In different epochs, and in varying social surroundings, man loves and hates and hopes differently. Just as the tree feeds its leaves, flowers, and fruits with the extracts absorbed from the soil by its roots, so does the individual find food for his sentiment and ideas, even the most 'sublime' ones, in the economic roots of society."

It's clear in Nashville that the society is unhealthy and has taken its toll on the characters. The increasingly brutal political atmosphere which expressed itself so violently and tragically in the assassinations of the Kennedy brothers has made its mark on the collective psyche of these people.

I think it's worth considering them in this context.

>Haven is pretty much a villain since he adds
>nothing.

I don't understand what you mean by this.

  

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
25919 posts
Tue Dec-12-06 12:56 PM

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39. "RE: I didn't get into either of those characters"
In response to Reply # 38


          

"Really? A "villain"? Honestly, I think putting him (or any of the other characters for that matter) into such a generic, ready-made mold only serves to prevent our understanding them better. Lots of different people are lots of different shades of good and bad, no?"

The villain label was for conversation. Tom isn't a cut and dry bad guy but overall, he doesn't really do anything positive in the movie. Name a shade of good in Tom.
----
"I think it's worth considering them in this context."

I did consider it in that context and still thought it was short-sighted and hopeless. Also, it is a chicken vs. the egg situation. Personally, I think the assasination is more of a chickens coming home to roost situation.
----
>Haven is pretty much a villain since he adds
>nothing.

"I don't understand what you mean by this."

Again, name something positive about Haven besides being completely aloof (which isn't even a positive). There isn't any. Nashville is filled with characters that have nothing positive about them.

Personally, I thought everyone just looked bad in this film and it didn't show any shades of good and bad. Everyone appeared to be a caricature. It's a film that allows for a lot of fan fiction but none of the real issues or relationships were ever fleshed out on screen.

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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colonelk
Member since Dec 10th 2002
5056 posts
Tue Dec-12-06 01:13 PM

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40. "best idea of the discussion"
In response to Reply # 39


  

          

>It's a film that allows for a
>lot of fan fiction but none of the real issues or
>relationships were ever fleshed out on screen.

Altman fan fiction!


McCabe entered the smokey room, hat dripping. The clerk neglected to look up at him but instead spat again in the nearly full spittoon.

"'M here to see the judge--"

The clerk scornfully tried to cut him off, "Judge ain't in."

"--'Bout a property dispute down at the ol'...Sorry wha'd you say?"

"Huh?"

"I said I'm here to see the..."

Across the room a heavy set woman sat down, perspiring. She turned to the woman next to her. "It's always hottest when it rains."

The woman looked bewildered, but nodded politely.

"I must say I'm tempted to unfasten my shawl," the heavy-set woman continued.

Down the hall a young country doctor stormed out of the judge's office. He swore under his breath and punched the palm of his own hand nearly running into McCabe who was on his way down the hall with the clerk trailing behind him.

"You cain't go in there, ya damn fool."

McCabe was unshaken, "Jes try and stop me."

Outside the window a child tried with all his might to pull his toy wagon out of the mud.

--------

hell-below.com

  

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colonelk
Member since Dec 10th 2002
5056 posts
Sun Dec-10-06 02:30 AM

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32. "Not sure what you mean by one-sided"
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

The film is not anti-country music or anti-Dixie or anti- anything tangible that I can see.

And with regards to emotion, I think understated human relationships in films can often be much more emotionally moving than obviously constructed drama, but that's a matter of taste I guess.

--------

hell-below.com

  

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
25919 posts
Sun Dec-10-06 12:39 PM

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34. "Understated emotion from over the top characters doesn't work IMO"
In response to Reply # 32


          

and that's what I saw this film as being. I'm not sure one character had an actual arc in the film.

As for one-sided, I thought it was fairly Anti-South. Even southern hospitality was played as simply being aloof. I just didn't see any conflicts in the film. It was one pathetic person chasing after another pathetic person.

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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BreezeBoogie
Charter member
7898 posts
Mon Dec-11-06 10:29 AM

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36. "I tried but couldn't get through it..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

not particularly impressed by the performances, writing, locations or photography. costuming was cool — i dug the clothes. laughed a couple of times and i managed to last an hour an a half before checking out. because of the reviews and synopsis of the movie, i voted that we watch and discuss this movie 1st. after seeing it, i'm not happy with my choice.

on another note, i got another indie flick from netflix this past weekend called "happy accidents" — a sci-fi romantic comedy starring mirisa tomei and vincent d'onofrio (of law & order fame). slightly weird, extremely quirky but very enjoyably. kind of a "high fidelity" but told, instead, by the female with strange science fiction-like elements.

but uhhhh, nashville felt like it was a project by an aspiring filmmaker whose friends were afraid to tell him that he was a bad writer and director who didn't have enough money in the film to hide his ineptness.

-----------------------
www.twitter/breeze29
-----------------------
"I'm so glad I got my own
I'm so glad that I can see
my life's a natural high
the man can't put no thing on me" (c) Curtis Mayfield

  

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jodinescorner
Member since Feb 22nd 2006
86 posts
Mon Dec-11-06 10:55 AM

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37. "It did have a lot going on but...."
In response to Reply # 36


  

          

I think it was too much for one movie. I easily peeled three storylines that would have been a good fit if we just focused on them and gave them more attention. I am a classic ADD and still couldn't keep up with all the storylines in the film. Also, I never got a chance to connect to any of the characters and it was a great crew of actors.

Sorry Chuck but I have to give this film a D+.

Jodine

http://www.digital-djs.com
Elevate your Mind, Balance your Body and Feed your SOUL!

  

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