"You think dope lyricism will ever go out of style?"
It seems like Rap is always at an existential crisis where the latest trend seems to represent lyricism not being that important. From Mumble rap, to trap, to ringtone raps, all the way back to vanilla ice and other wack lyricists. It just always seems like rap is one fad away from the point where being able to rap doesn't matter anymore.
And yet, the top artist always seems to be a capable lyricist. From Drake (and yall might disagree but Drake can rhyme when he wants to) moving backwards to Jay-Z, to Snoop, and back to times when rhyming was clearly a requirement to be at the top of hip-hop.
So do you think it will still be the same going forward? Could we really reach a time where there are no good lyricists in popular hip-hop or will their always be a return to lyricism every so often just when you think rap is on the verge of forgetting how to rap?
What do you think?
********** "Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson
Dj Joey Joe Member since Sep 01st 2007 13770 posts
Wed Mar-06-19 03:39 PM
1. "No Lyricism Will Never Go Out Of Style" In response to Reply # 0
Being lyrical is what makes other rappers stand out if not their flow, voice, but it will always be some type of guard or gatekeeper who keeps yelling at the top of their lungs that we need emcees not rappers, not singers who claim to rap, or rappers who sing 90% of the time with no content other than a,b,c, dick & jane, type rhymes.
Yeah it's about the music, yeah it's about entertainment, yeah it's about making people dance, yeah it's about what the mass consumer wants but some artists will continue to make great music and their will always be a few emcees who will make it about being lyrical.
Right now it's up to the masses and how much they can take before it becomes over crowed and boring and they want something different; they might switch to something worst or might go back to something better, nobody really knows, only time will tell.
--------- "We in here talking about later career Prince records & your fool ass is cruising around in a time machine trying to collect props for a couple of sociopathic degenerates" - s.blak
2. "Nah I don't think so. There's always an audience for it." In response to Reply # 0
I know every era has a crop of artists who decry the "death" of hip-hop, but it seemingly never comes. For starters the artform itself is grassroots/underground in nature which means it will always have an audience of listeners who view *themselves* to be anti-mainstream. And that's the *worst* case scenario IMO. I'm of the belief that lyricism will always have a place in the mainstream because good/great writing/lyricism is sort of perpetually impressive on its own merits. No matter their lot in life or what their general music preferences are, a verse like Deck's on "Triumph," Biggie's on "Victory," Snoop's on "G Thang" or any number of other timeless/classic verses resonate with just about everyone.
Longform verses are sort of unique to hip-hop so I think there will always be room for those who excel at it. There's nothing quite like an entire room of people chanting the lyrics to a great rap verse. Don't think that will go anywhere anytime soon, at least not during our lifetimes.
5. "Hm fair enough. The scales have definitely been tipped." In response to Reply # 4
>if we're talking main stream. having Drake, Kendrick, Cole >prove they're the exceptions and not the majority. > >its kinda like vinyl in that there will always a crowd for it, >but I don't see it going mainstream like it was before.
I guess you're right that lyricists used to be the rule, and novelty rap acts were the exception. Now it's the other way around. So the scales tipped.
The perspective I was speaking from in my post above was that I don't see lyricism going the way of, say, disco, or even OG rock n' roll, et al ... artforms which more or less cease to exist now. I think there will always be room in the mainstream as well for creative lyricists like the aforementioned Kendrick, Drake, Cole, etc., even if they now occupy a smaller space in the hip-hop pantheon than they once did. And I definitely don't see the underground crowd going anywhere.
But yea I guess we'll have to wait and see but that's my opinion anyway.
6. "RE: You think dope lyricism will ever go out of style?" In response to Reply # 0
It’s been out of style for 20+ years. By this I mean you can’t show up with ‘just leeryx’ and get over huge. Chino xl. Aesop Rock.
You have to be properly framed as an act or you risk being ignored by the masses.
Even popular rappers who are good rappers don’t always get fair credit for their talent. Too short, as simple as he was, was dope. Tupac? Shiiiid, folks will love to hear the average rapper doing that much rapping now. DMX was good at his best too.
As for the future, I think there’ll always be good rappers. It’s just a matter of how much rapping they’ll do. Now, dudes are increasingly ‘rationing the rapping’. That’s why hearing something like those Thought EPs is so jarring.
>It seems like Rap is always at an existential crisis where >the latest trend seems to represent lyricism not being that >important. From Mumble rap, to trap, to ringtone raps, all >the way back to vanilla ice and other wack lyricists. It just >always seems like rap is one fad away from the point where >being able to rap doesn't matter anymore. > >And yet, the top artist always seems to be a capable lyricist. >From Drake (and yall might disagree but Drake can rhyme when >he wants to) moving backwards to Jay-Z, to Snoop, and back to >times when rhyming was clearly a requirement to be at the top >of hip-hop. > >So do you think it will still be the same going forward? Could >we really reach a time where there are no good lyricists in >popular hip-hop or will their always be a return to lyricism >every so often just when you think rap is on the verge of >forgetting how to rap? > >What do you think? > > >********** >"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then >they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson > >"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"
7. "Well I think it's always been this way." In response to Reply # 6
>It’s been out of style for 20+ years. By this I mean you >can’t show up with ‘just leeryx’ and get over huge. >Chino xl. Aesop Rock. > >You have to be properly framed as an act or you risk being >ignored by the masses.
I don't think this is something that's changed. I think on a certain level it's always been this way. For example this is exactly why Biggie outsold Nas. Biggie was "properly framed" by Diddy. Nas was just a dope lyricist with dope beats. So even though Illmatic was the superior product from a hip-hop perspective, the masses gravitated to Biggie because he was marketed properly. So IMO that dynamic has always existed.
>Even popular rappers who are good rappers don’t always get >fair credit for their talent. Too short, as simple as he was, >was dope. Tupac? Shiiiid, folks will love to hear the average >rapper doing that much rapping now. DMX was good at his best >too.
Yea I think 2 Chainz falls into this category now. People see him more as a gimmick act than a lyricist. Which is his own doing, to be sure. And smart in a business sense. But he is better than his reputation would indicate.
>As for the future, I think there’ll always be good rappers. >It’s just a matter of how much rapping they’ll do. Now, >dudes are increasingly ‘rationing the rapping’. That’s >why hearing something like those Thought EPs is so jarring. > >>It seems like Rap is always at an existential crisis where >>the latest trend seems to represent lyricism not being that >>important. From Mumble rap, to trap, to ringtone raps, all >>the way back to vanilla ice and other wack lyricists. It >just >>always seems like rap is one fad away from the point where >>being able to rap doesn't matter anymore.
Haha yea I was thinking along these lines as well. Rappers have been complaining about the state of rap since rap started. The artform is built on competition so it's only natural. I think that push and pull is a primary reason it has withstood the test of time and only become more popular. And also this is the reason why I think it will never go fully out of style, even if the scales tip a bit every few years.
>>And yet, the top artist always seems to be a capable >lyricist. >>From Drake (and yall might disagree but Drake can rhyme when >>he wants to) moving backwards to Jay-Z, to Snoop, and back >to >>times when rhyming was clearly a requirement to be at the >top >>of hip-hop. >> >>So do you think it will still be the same going forward? >Could >>we really reach a time where there are no good lyricists in >>popular hip-hop or will their always be a return to lyricism >>every so often just when you think rap is on the verge of >>forgetting how to rap? >> >>What do you think? >> >> >>********** >>"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then >>they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson >> >>"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant" >
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