1. "Always liked this song" In response to Reply # 0
Don't Say Nuttin was the worst thing to happen to The Tipping Point.
The perception of the album changed to a commercial album with 'The Roots' songs.
In reality, the album is solid but the two commercial songs, Don't Say Nuttin and Duck Down bring down the craftsmanship of the album.
I know that the only way the album got made was that Jimmy Iovine loved the demo of Don't Say Nuttin but in retrospect maybe the best outcome was for Jimmy to drop the band and then have the band sign with Def Jam.
I don't think they were wrong to pass up on the star treatment that Interscope offered then tho. Just my thoughts.
2. "i disagree. love those two songs" In response to Reply # 1
what i don't like is actually black thoughts verses on I Don't Care. very plain and boring to me. only time i can say that. also, to me this album felt like a collection of dope songs that don't really feel cohesive.
3. "I also love both songs. Also love the album." In response to Reply # 2
It's the only album, as we all know and as you guys have touched on, that pandered to the mainstream a little too much for obvious reasons. But I still think it knocked in a way only The Roots could really pull off, while still trying to appeal to the masses.
Re: Don't Say Nothin', I love that track despite its mainstream leanings because it was pretty clearly a "fuck the industry" song so I can appreciate the passive/aggressive nature of it. Pandering while taking subtle shots at the industry that *made* them pander.
7. "Your point about the cohesion is the point I couldn't articulate" In response to Reply # 2
The non commercial songs seem more similar and could kind of work together on its own album. But then with Duck Down and Don't Say Nuttin the album doesn't flow well.
Maybe Jimmy was thinking that most rap albums, at least of that time, simply were a collection of songs rather than an album in the sense of songs with some type of theme threading them together.
5. "I like both of those songs, and the whole album " In response to Reply # 1
Beats bang, Thought was killing it. I never understood people’s problems with that album. If I recall correctly, Questlove didn’t exactly love it either?
Don’t Say Nothin was a hard beat with hard rhymes. A more “commercial” sound than usual maybe, but so what? It still knocked IMO. It was one of the best rap singles out at that time. Star? Stay Cool? Web? Boom? Duck Down? So good.
8. "That's exactly why people didn't like it." In response to Reply # 5
>Don’t Say Nothin was a hard beat with hard rhymes. A more >“commercial” sound than usual maybe, but so what?
I think most of us were still in full backpacker mode at that time so the fact that The Roots, of all acts, would dare flirt with the mainstream turned folks off.
But I think in hindsight we can all appreciate this album. I always really liked TTP but admittedly talked shit about the "commercial" tone of the album at the same time.
10. "In 04 I was more on that “good mainstream rap is coming back!” tip" In response to Reply # 8
I was more full on backpacker a few years earlier.
But in ‘04 those horrid Ja Rule sing songy hits that dominated radio a few years earlier were dying out. He even had a dope single around that time in “New York”. Fabolous with “Breathe”, Kanye with “Through the Wire”, Nas with “Thief’s Theme” and “You Know My Style”....even Fat Joe “Lean Back” banged a lot harder than the bullshit he’d been doing a few years earlier.....I felt like we were starting to see it again be possible to get a lot of airplay with more true to hip hop music that knocked, so I thought “Don’t Say Nothin’” was more in that lane which I liked.
I think there was a mix of both. Folks like you who were happy to see our favorites getting some shine. Others who were sorta resentful of The Roots and others going in that direction, even tho the music was good. But honestly I remember the overriding reaction to TTP being negative here.
13. "RE: Yea good point." In response to Reply # 12
>I think there was a mix of both. Folks like you who were >happy to see our favorites getting some shine. Others who were >sorta resentful of The Roots and others going in that >direction, even tho the music was good. But honestly I >remember the overriding reaction to TTP being negative here.
Agreed, that is how I remember the OKP reaction like that too. But I liked it from day 1. I remember an ESPN segment on the Eagles around that time and The Roots being mentioned and “Don’t Say Nothin” being played. Even though I hated the Eagles I was geeked The Roots we’re getting shine, lol. And then Common the next year when BE came out. That was a good time IMO.
17. "I don't disagree with you, but... " In response to Reply # 16
Is Birthday Girl an objectively bad song or is it like Don't Say Nuttin in that it just isn't a The Roots song?
I've only heard Birthday Girl once or twice. It sounded alright. For the record I wasn't a Fall Out Boy fan and didn't pick up on the meaning of the lyrics or the music.
But it wasn't a bad song. It just was unremarkable like most pop songs are.
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