"Name good artists whose "Gimmick" distracted from their talent " Thu Aug-23-18 06:07 AM by Buddy_Gilapagos
Man I swear Jamiroquai wasn't recognized for the good artist that he is because he came to be known for sounding like Stevie and that Damn hat.
Jidenna got heat, I hope he isn't just seen as the dude who dresses lke a Dandy.
All the jams that Cameo got, can't help but think of Larry Blackmon's Codpiece when I think of the group.
Back in the day, my dude from the bay area had to work hard to convince me to check out Digital Underground's work because all I was associating them with was the Novelty of Humpty Hump.
Prince Marky Dee could have been a serious solo artist maybe if he didn't have the Fat Boys past (maybe).
Who else?
********** "Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson
1. "I think Jazzy Jeff suffered cause of the Fresh Prince TV show." In response to Reply # 0
Think folks from the 80s knew of his talent and appreciated him but 90s kids like myself thought he was just Will Smith's goofy friend on TV who used to work with him on his comical music from the 80s.
Come to find out he's one of the most talented, revered, and respected DJs in the game.
Not sure if he really qualifies as a "gimmick" but.
19. "Good point. I was thinking the question was asking more about ..." In response to Reply # 16
... "reputation" than money. So I guess the answer goes both ways in the case of Jazzy.
Though I'd have to think the OP *meant* for the question to be more about reputation/opinion than money. Because the majority of the time the "gimmick" is there with the sole purpose to make the artist money.
34. "JAZZY JEFF SUFFERED LACK OF NOTORIETY WAY BEFORE TV" In response to Reply # 1 Thu Aug-30-18 01:17 PM by maro
I am old enough to remember when the early singles by JJ and the FP dropped. And while as kids we all loved "parents just don't understand" and "nightmare on my street" - those cartoony story telling rap songs and videos completely camouflaged the true hidden gem of Jazzy Jeff producer and scratch machine that gets displayed on nearly all of their albums.
SEE - He's the Dj, I'm the rapper (both album AND Track) for case and point.
3. "Yo I had no idea about Mase" In response to Reply # 2
until I heard him on a mixtape freestyle murdering it.
The Bad Boy thing is a mix bag though because if Puffy didn't do all the glitzy stuff, I think most people never would have heard of Biggie, Mase, Lox. They might habe been "real" hip-hop street artist, but how does that work out for most folks?
********** "Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson
4. "Haha yea I always liked Mase but kinda begrudgingly." In response to Reply # 3
>until I heard him on a mixtape freestyle murdering it.
Like I could tell he had a ton of skill but I was so meh on the Bad Boy / flashy shit, he was almost like a guilty pleasure.
Then I heard some early "Murda Mase" stuff as well and thought, OK I wasn't crazy. Haha.
>The Bad Boy thing is a mix bag though because if Puffy didn't >do all the glitzy stuff, I think most people never would have >heard of Biggie, Mase, Lox. They might habe been "real" >hip-hop street artist, but how does that work out for most >folks?
Agree 100%. I liked a good chunk of their music but cringed at the blingy stuff like a lot of us did I'm sure.
But you nailed it, their explosion in the mainstream made it so a lot of street artists could be heard and sell records. It wasn't all bad haha.
I'd argue that they didn't have to go quite as flashy as they did to accomplish their goals (Death Row is an example of how it can be done without totally selling your soul) but alas, it worked. Can't hate.
Shaun Tha Don Member since Nov 19th 2005 18289 posts
Sat Sep-29-18 11:38 PM
59. "What convinced me that there was more to Mase than the shiny suits" In response to Reply # 3
was his guest spots on Herb McGruff's danger Zone and DMX's Niggaz Done Started Somthing (especially). I was left so impressed I was willing to give him a chance. That was until Double Up dropped.
11. "Puffy's/Bad Boy's corniness distracted me from..." In response to Reply # 2
...the dope MCs on his roster. I mean, I knew Big and Craig Mack were dope, but I unfairly dismissed Black Rob and G-Dep out the gate due to their Bad Boy-affiliation.
5. "The ones who fathered a style and spawned less talented biters" In response to Reply # 0
It's not their fault, they came with a new style and the biters ran it into the ground, even to the point of taking the shine off the originators
No clearer example than Das EFX, but there's others:
NWA > every studio gangster L.O.N.S > Onyx Fu-Schnickens > Jay-Z (before RD) Gravediggaz > that awful "horrorcore" shit 2Pac > Ja Rule (a damm carbon copy with none of the charisma) Co Flow > Anticon Future > every mumble rapper
>It's not their fault, they came with a new style and the >biters ran it into the ground, even to the point of taking the >shine off the originators > >No clearer example than Das EFX, but there's others: > >NWA > every studio gangster >L.O.N.S > Onyx >Fu-Schnickens > Jay-Z (before RD) >Gravediggaz > that awful "horrorcore" shit >2Pac > Ja Rule (a damm carbon copy with none of the charisma) >Co Flow > Anticon >Future > every mumble rapper >
It was so sad that I couldn't convince people that they were slagging 2Pac because of the guys that followed. I had that argument for years! Pac had his own flaws, but he was still a special artist to me when I was left with the music. He had a lot of a lot of things that makes a rapper a good one. Two of my favorite 'big' rappers are follow-ups to 2Pac right now so someone's brother/uncle/dad must've thought the same thing.
33. "^^ I was just about to say Akinyele, " In response to Reply # 6
The 'euuuuuuh' voice drop he did was annoying which distracted from the master work that was Vagina Diner. A full album of Large Professor beats and Ak was absolutely killing it with the lyrics. I bought it on cassette and CD when it dropped. Criminally slept on album (and no sex talk like his later work, strangely enough...
Not sure if Chino XL had a gimmick per se (dissing everybody seemed to work for Em), but his beat selection didn't help at all....
<-- Dave Thomas knows what's up... __________________________
Jay: Look here homie, any nigga can get a hit record. This here is about respect. Game: Like Gladys Knight. Jay: Aretha Franklin. Game: Word, I like her too. Jay: Nigga...
9. "Funny how you still managed to refer to Jay Kay as Jamiroquai " In response to Reply # 0
>Man I swear Jamiroquai wasn't recognized for the good artist >that he is because he came to be known for sounding like >Stevie and that Damn hat. > >Jidenna got heat, I hope he isn't just seen as the dude who >dresses lke a Dandy. > >All the jams that Cameo got, can't help but think of Larry >Blackmon's Codpiece when I think of the group. > >Back in the day, my dude from the bay area had to work hard to >convince me to check out Digital Underground's work because >all I was associating them with was the Novelty of Humpty >Hump. > >Prince Marky Dee could have been a serious solo artist maybe >if he didn't have the Fat Boys past (maybe). > >Who else?
I did that for the longest too, I guess it proves your point.
Dj Joey Joe Member since Sep 01st 2007 13770 posts
Sun Aug-26-18 12:38 AM
22. "Prince Markie Dee's Music Was Too Commerical" In response to Reply # 10
I wanted to like his solo album but it was too commercial for me to get into, but a few of the singles he had, had some better remixes that tried to be more street which I didn't know why in the hell he didn't go that route to begin with.
Heavy D had commercial joints too but his music was way better produced, had better singers on hooks, but I will say half the album "Heavy" had some commercial duds that I still can't listen to even now.
--------- "We in here talking about later career Prince records & your fool ass is cruising around in a time machine trying to collect props for a couple of sociopathic degenerates" - s.blak
15. "This may not qualify" In response to Reply # 0
But I would say Bruno Mars. Granted, he's a big-time pop star but I think his talents get lost in the shuffle. Yeah, he's heavy into retro sounds but to continually make big hits while moving from one time period to the next shows he's got some chops.
17. "Arrested Development" In response to Reply # 0
They kinds ushered in the new African pride movement of the early 90's, but they and Speech still went on to make great music, even tho gangsta rap killed off that aesthetic.
Dj Joey Joe Member since Sep 01st 2007 13770 posts
Sun Aug-26-18 12:48 AM
23. "That Solo Album Speech Did Was Wack As Fuck" In response to Reply # 17
I don't know what the fuck he was thinking in the studio, of course he was selling millions with the A.D. stuff (which I didn't like either), but it's like he tried to make something opposite but he went the wrong direction.
That rap group down with Arrested Development named Gumbo, they had an album out too titled "Dropping Soulful H2O On The Fiber" wasn't good either.
--------- "We in here talking about later career Prince records & your fool ass is cruising around in a time machine trying to collect props for a couple of sociopathic degenerates" - s.blak
might be the 2nd time I have heard that group referenced on OKP. LOL I bought that CD at a used spot at the Jeresey Shore sometime in the 90's. My boy still doesn't let me live down how bad the album was.
That said, I just saw AD live a few months ago. Great show, tons of energy, and speech is highly underrated as an EMCEE
31. "Dres talent is obscured somewhat by the "Black Sheep" name/association" In response to Reply # 0
>Man I swear Jamiroquai wasn't recognized for the good artist >that he is because he came to be known for sounding like >Stevie and that Damn hat. > >Jidenna got heat, I hope he isn't just seen as the dude who >dresses lke a Dandy. > >All the jams that Cameo got, can't help but think of Larry >Blackmon's Codpiece when I think of the group. > >Back in the day, my dude from the bay area had to work hard to >convince me to check out Digital Underground's work because >all I was associating them with was the Novelty of Humpty >Hump. > >Prince Marky Dee could have been a serious solo artist maybe >if he didn't have the Fat Boys past (maybe). > >Who else? >
He was one of the nicest dudes in that era, killing the guest appearances and all that. But the first album had a lot of childish fun moments, then the next go around they decided to stop offering that in their music.
I'm not sure if he got slept on because he took a more serious turn, or if he got a little flat as an emcee. But it seemed like the "Black Sheep" gimmick kept him from getting his proper due as a lyricist.
48. "I think sometimes rappers can be tooo "funny"" In response to Reply # 31
Like if you are tooo funny too much of the time, you might get seen as a parody joke rapper. Like a lil dicky.
One problem with being the funny rapper is that most jokes don't age that well.
I feel like De La ran that risk hence them killing their daisy age image.
I think this probably happened to Black Sheep to a certain extent. ********** "Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson
36. "Digital Underground worked for that era of rap in a way" In response to Reply # 0
that would be hard to revisit and accept at a later date. Back then, there were not as many unwritten rules and restrictions on how a group should look. In '89 when "doowutchyalike" came out, you had Biz, 3 ft high and rising, kwame, etc., so I don't think that their image limited them as much as others.
39. "He's an interesting case." In response to Reply # 38 Fri Sep-07-18 11:32 AM by Brew
Cause I think technically you're right - he was way too talented to *need* a gimmick, but at the same time I kinda liked his gimmick and think that it ultimately sorta helped him and added to his talent / separated him from the crowd to an extent ?
Like I think his uniqueness was *part* of his talent, even if he didn't really need it to stand out as a damn talented MC. If that makes sense.
In other words I think that if he didn't do the whole "wild man" act (for lack of a better term), then maybe we wouldn't have ended up with "Woo Hah !" or some of his other classics, and that'd be a shame. So while his gimmick may have distracted from his talent, it also kinda simultaneously added to it maybe ?
43. "that wasn't a gimmick to me." In response to Reply # 39
I feel like that who he was at the time. he was dope for while being wild style with the big ass clothes and hyper-color ass videos. I agree that it did make him stick out.
he had two gimmicks tho. that count down to 2000, lol. that had no choice but to end.
his other gimmick ended up causing him to fall off. when he became Gangsta Rhymez, it seemed a lot more contrived and trying to fit in.
44. "Yea true. I guess Anonymous and I were kinda stretching the definition." In response to Reply # 43
I'd argue that while I agree that his persona was certainly *close* to what he portrayed in his music and his videos, I think he certainly played it up for the cameras. So it could still be considered sorta gimmicky to an extent, but I agree that he didn't like *create* the persona specifically for music ... I think he was what he said he was, just played up that persona when the lights came on.
>I feel like that who he was at the time. he was dope for >while being wild style with the big ass clothes and >hyper-color ass videos. I agree that it did make him stick >out. > >he had two gimmicks tho. that count down to 2000, lol. that >had no choice but to end. > >his other gimmick ended up causing him to fall off. when he >became Gangsta Rhymez, it seemed a lot more contrived and >trying to fit in.
49. "For sure. Can definitely agree with that." In response to Reply # 47
Like these weren't "gimmicks" to the extent that they were playing characters or something. These dudes were definitely exactly how they presented themselves in their music, for better or for worse.
>RE: I think ODB, Two Chainz and Busta Rhymes to a certain extent are all very good lyricist who are sometimes overshadowed by >their "zany" personas. > > >********** >"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then >they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson > >"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"
40. "some people say the Greg Nice echo over stayed its welcome..." In response to Reply # 0
....but thats not how i feel ..in fact when i hear some of the stuff from the final Nice & Smooth LP that doesn't have that echo effect I get upset (set)
Despite the oft-corny punchlines and voice fluctuations, she is by far the most technically gifted of any current-era rapper. Her flow game is top-notch.
She's one of the most glaring, for sure. Cause she could've carved out a nice little niche for herself and been regarded as one of the better female MCs possibly ever but she went the Barbie route instead and here we are.
Still has plenty of dope moments - she can rap her ass off when she wants to, but I mostly can't listen to her music.
Double 0 DJ/Producer/Artist Producer in Kidz In The Hall ------------------------------------------- twitter: @godouble0 IG: @godouble0 www.thinklikearapper.com
I used to hate her, because she sounded more like an ad-libber than a rapper shouting random words and phrases. But her DRW album I listened to back in 1999 was pretty damn good. Great beats, great guest spots. And she held her own admirably.
61. "At this point, Kanye" In response to Reply # 0
He's a try-hard who can occasionally make really good and/or important music. That's who he actually is to me when you strip away everything else that has saddled him.
BUT
His desperate trolling for attention/control/whatever he wants has rendered his music muted. I haven't seen this level of sabotage since MJ and Prince.
Don't start me on the actual music, which has almost no shot of surviving all of his BS even if it is good in spots.
I'll cop the plea that the way Kanye is viewed is absolutely no accident. From the time he complained about awards way back when, he's been a target. THEN, he had the Bush thing, but that was less risky since hating on Bush wasn't special by that time AND FB and Fox weren't what they are now. BUT THEN the Taylor Swift/Beyonce award thing guaranteed that he'd never be judged solely for what his music sounds like ever again.
Look: there's no way to treat him like he's not his own worst enemy at this point. He can't just curl up in a corner and come out with something that is consistent and jamming. That would help him sooooooo much more than he seems to know. So, we continue to get shenanigans, shitshows, trollathon tweet flurries, dog ate my homework-style release schedules that don't pass in 2018, and music that is HARD to vouch for as complete works even if you can find a way to ignore the subtext and context of Kanye's existence.
Back to Supreme Blientele I go...
>Man I swear Jamiroquai wasn't recognized for the good artist >that he is because he came to be known for sounding like >Stevie and that Damn hat. > >Jidenna got heat, I hope he isn't just seen as the dude who >dresses lke a Dandy. > >All the jams that Cameo got, can't help but think of Larry >Blackmon's Codpiece when I think of the group. > >Back in the day, my dude from the bay area had to work hard to >convince me to check out Digital Underground's work because >all I was associating them with was the Novelty of Humpty >Hump. > >Prince Marky Dee could have been a serious solo artist maybe >if he didn't have the Fat Boys past (maybe). > >Who else? > > >********** >"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then >they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson > >"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"
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