I had this conversation with a few beloved OKP artists and it's kind of challenging for them. Not having proper funds, not given credit and not doing commercially well compared to those who take the formula and perfect to a wider audience. Van Hunt broke this down to me but mentioned how the next generation of stars (Miguel, Frank Ocean) have hit him on DM thanking his contribution.

I get the praise they receive from those in the know, but how does this support them with bills, owning a home and healthcare? Sorry if Im all over the place. But curious to hear your thoughts...


av

Weekends on 89.9 FM // KCRW

as soon as i saw the subject line... i thought "not for your pockets"

i think it would have to be incredibly frustrating even beyond the financial aspect. all any artist wants is for the most amount of people to be exposed to a work and then for there to be a response...

the worst response is crickets or having ideas the public is ALMOST ready for

http://howardlloyd.bandcamp.com

Good point..

Weekends on 89.9 FM // KCRW

that get overlooked at first then sometimes come into public attention later. So that whole thing of later appreciation stuff that was overlooked before makes for new jacks getting inspired, magazines and web articles and books exploring/investigating how this previously overlooked work and artist "handled" (sometimes good/sometimes tragic) being overlooked for a period of time (long or short).


So....society seems to get something out of overlooking stuff and then later "discovering" it (him/her/them). Sometimes the artist who created the overlooked stuff don't have that "tragic" a story to tell about the situation.

It seems like its used when the music just doesn't pop like they'd hoped. not much new under the sun.

maybe the intended audience just didn't dig it. could also be about the marketing of the project and any million other variables.

Y'all buy those labels, I was born supreme

that was near universally hated when it dropped
and near universally loved now

or completed loved now. I liked it from day one and so did many other folks. cept for those last to tracks. could've done with those.

It wasn't ahead of its time. just unexpected from Com. Outkast made a living off 'different' music and nobody ever called them ahead of their time because they also sold millions every time out.

Y'all buy those labels, I was born supreme

The whole crew was extremely progressive. None of them were giving us what we were expecting or hoping for:

Bilal "1st Born Second"
Badu "Worldwide Underground"
Roots "Phrenology"
Jay Dee "Ruff Draft"

None of that stuff was completely congruent with our expectations. It was expected to get the unexpected on that stuff.

People were fine with Erykah and Bilal going left because to an extent they were "eclectic" and even though they went further left than the rest of the crew, it was in line with folks' expectations of them and their images of them.

Common and The Roots were underground, traditional hip-hop heads so Phren and EC came off as weird and forced according to a lot of people. Again, I vividly remember a lot of hate for both albums ... moreso for Comm's. I wish there was a thread to pull up or something.


>The whole crew was extremely progressive. None of them were
>giving us what we were expecting or hoping for:
>
>Bilal "1st Born Second"
>Badu "Worldwide Underground"
>Roots "Phrenology"
>Jay Dee "Ruff Draft"
>
>None of that stuff was completely congruent with our
>expectations. It was expected to get the unexpected on that
>stuff.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

I will say I didn't like half of "Electric Circus" the first two times listening to it, but after a week (maybe 4 or 5 listens from beginning to end) I was loving it except "Jimi Was A Rock Star" that song I disliked for almost a year cause I use to skip that song almost 70% of the time, but it grew on me cause then I realized how it fitted between "I Am Music" and "Heaven Somewhere".

Now I have to listen to the entire album from beginning to end, sometimes I will start the album off with "Heaven Somewhere" and then go to "Ferris Wheel" all the way to the end to "Heaven Somewhere" again; I will say some people on here hated that album for a long time but get it but I was loving it, maybe cause it was a continuation of "Like Water For Chocolate" which I was still listening to almost everyday.

I don't think "Electric Circus" was ahead of it's time just "Jimi Was A Rock Star" that made many go WTF? and turned many away, while the Neptunes/Pharrell stuff was too modern for some.

https://tinyurl.com/y4ba6hog

---------
"We in here talking about later career Prince records
& your fool ass is cruising around in a time machine
trying to collect props for a couple of sociopathic degenerates" - s.blak

>I had this conversation with a few beloved OKP artists and
>it's kind of challenging for them. Not having proper funds,
>not given credit and not doing commercially well compared to
>those who take the formula and perfect to a wider audience.
>Van Hunt broke this down to me but mentioned how the next
>generation of stars (Miguel, Frank Ocean) have hit him on DM
>thanking his contribution.
>
>I get the praise they receive from those in the know, but how
>does this support them with bills, owning a home and
>healthcare? Sorry if Im all over the place. But curious to
>hear your thoughts...

that the general public "isn't ready for". People will consume ANYTHING that they find entertaining.

>that the general public "isn't ready for". People will
>consume ANYTHING that they find entertaining.

NOW maybe, the world is a lot different than it was even 15 years ago with the presence of sites like YouTube, SoundCloud, DatPiff etc there are less gate keepers and artists are able to reach out directly to listeners to build a fanbase

R.I.P. Loud But Wrong Guy
Dec 29th 2009 - Dec 17th 2017

It's no promotions department anymore cause these lazy ass A&R's and executives sign artists who have high number of listeners, likes, and viewership, and they think the regular people who listen to radio, buy cds, & buy downloads know these artists already which 80% of the time they have never heard of these people.

Just cause some rapper got two million listens for a song mean most people have heard of that song or artist, numbers can be manipulated these days, people pay for artists to get high numbers; but that doesn't mean these ratings are natural instead of generated by blogs, computers, spam rebloggers.

I almost hate going on soundcloud's promoted page cause it's always some wack ass rock & rap artist who I've never heard of who paid for membership that's not worth my time.

https://tinyurl.com/y4ba6hog

---------
"We in here talking about later career Prince records
& your fool ass is cruising around in a time machine
trying to collect props for a couple of sociopathic degenerates" - s.blak

The example that came to me was the development of G-Funk. Some say that Dre wasn't the originator of that style. DJ Muggs and DJ Quik have tracks that approximate the sound that Dre used.

Granted both DJ Muggs and DJ Quik both are legends and have had really good careers, but I could see that they could feel a way that Dre took their sound and ran with it, not so much because the music was that much better but because his brand was able to get attention for that style of music.

I guess Jeff Buckley is somewhat of another example. He had a unique vocal sound that apparently Thom Yorke heard once and decided to jack. Obviously Radiohead is a renown band and Jeff Buckley, partially because he died so young, is mostly forgotten and only remembered by fans of his at his peak.

And then there's the case of Dilla. He probably would have never wanted commercial acceptance but he created a style that influenced beatmakers for a decade.

I would think that for an artist to be that ahead of the curve, they're probably misunderstood on a personal level, maybe? Just a bit different from most folks. Having other people jump on their style after they did all of the leg work must be disappointing.

But trends come in waves and generally the 'first-to-market' rarely wins that race. The audience needs to be taught what to like to a degree, especially when something is radically new. The way that music careers go, it seems most semi-successful artists have two or three albums to make a name. That's also about as much time as it would take a younger artist to incorporate a visionary's work into their own style. So, the trailblazer did something noble, but no one remembers who builds their streets, so to speak.

I wish music journalists were able to do a better job at recognizing unheralded artists but the way the market moves so quickly, I don't see outlets making that a priority anytime soon.

<--- Me when my head hits the pillow

I was thinking I should have raised the points you made about those who start something not being able to enjoy the environment that they helped create like those who follow them.

refreshing to read some accurate analysis here.

True.. Well said!

Weekends on 89.9 FM // KCRW

>The example that came to me was the development of G-Funk.
>Some say that Dre wasn't the originator of that style. DJ
>Muggs and DJ Quik have tracks that approximate the sound that
>Dre used.

I mean.... the stylistic progression of Efil4Zaggin into the Chronic is perfectly fluid. I cannot ride with this theory at all. The stuff that Muggs was doing was far more faithful to the same sample-based style that was coming from the most influential stuff from the east coast at the time. I can't ride with this hypothesis at all. That's not to say that Dre wasn't susceptible to following his influences, but this is a serious stretch... specifically when you consider that he has stuff that sounds like "G-Funk" that precedes the release of Cypress Hill's first album and Quik's album.

>I guess Jeff Buckley is somewhat of another example. He had a
>unique vocal sound that apparently Thom Yorke heard once and
>decided to jack. Obviously Radiohead is a renown band and Jeff
>Buckley, partially because he died so young, is mostly
>forgotten and only remembered by fans of his at his peak.

What on earth... Buckley's album came out in summer 94. Radiohead's first album came out in early 93.

LOL. Really?

>And then there's the case of Dilla. He probably would have
>never wanted commercial acceptance but he created a style that
>influenced beatmakers for a decade.

Why would he have not wanted commercial acceptance? He HAD commercial acceptance. He had Pharrell on BET when he was the most commercially successful beatmaker citing JayDee as his favorite producer. He was heavily influencing very successful musicians and beatmakers long before his death. He just kept it moving because that's what artists do. He obviously ended up being heavily influenced himself by Madlib before his death....

>>The example that came to me was the development of G-Funk.
>>Some say that Dre wasn't the originator of that style. DJ
>>Muggs and DJ Quik have tracks that approximate the sound
>that
>>Dre used.
>
>I mean.... the stylistic progression of Efil4Zaggin into the
>Chronic is perfectly fluid. I cannot ride with this theory
>at all. The stuff that Muggs was doing was far more faithful
>to the same sample-based style that was coming from the most
>influential stuff from the east coast at the time. I can't
>ride with this hypothesis at all. That's not to say that
>Dre wasn't susceptible to following his influences, but this
>is a serious stretch... specifically when you consider that he
>has stuff that sounds like "G-Funk" that precedes the release
>of Cypress Hill's first album and Quik's album.

I was kinda riffing when I posted this. I've read posters here in The Lesson mention that Muggs and Quik were influencers of G-Funk. Or at least stumbled onto the basics before Dre perfected that sounds.

Dre definitely rooted his sound in funk before The Chronic though.
>

>>I guess Jeff Buckley is somewhat of another example. He had
>a
>>unique vocal sound that apparently Thom Yorke heard once and
>>decided to jack. Obviously Radiohead is a renown band and
>Jeff
>>Buckley, partially because he died so young, is mostly
>>forgotten and only remembered by fans of his at his peak.
>

>What on earth... Buckley's album came out in summer 94.
>Radiohead's first album came out in early 93.
>
>LOL. Really?

You're right that Radiohead came out after Buckley. But if you look online for Jeff Buckley influences on Radiohead you'll come across Thom stating that he heard Buckley's voice and steered his vocal style in that direction. That influence is heard more so after Pablo Honey.

Here's one statement from NME:

Jeff Buckley was a bigger influence on Radiohead than they would perhaps today admit. 'The Bends’ producer John Leckie, recalling the profound effect seeing Buckley had on Thom Yorke, said: "It made him realise you could sing in a falsetto without sounding drippy."
Read more at https://www.nme.com/photos/50-incredibly-geeky-facts-about-radiohead-1418099#AjxKL1HkWATZ2a8c.99


>
>>And then there's the case of Dilla. He probably would have
>>never wanted commercial acceptance but he created a style
>that
>>influenced beatmakers for a decade.
>
>Why would he have not wanted commercial acceptance? He HAD
>commercial acceptance. He had Pharrell on BET when he was
>the most commercially successful beatmaker citing JayDee as
>his favorite producer. He was heavily influencing very
>successful musicians and beatmakers long before his death.
>He just kept it moving because that's what artists do. He
>obviously ended up being heavily influenced himself by Madlib
>before his death....
>
>

By commerical acceptance I meant the type of record sales of his albums that someone like Pharrell had. Yes, Dilla is well-known among heads as being their favorite producer's favorite producer. From what ?uest has said on here, (and someone correct me if I'm wrong) but when his MCA album was shelved, it turned me off of making hit records which is when he stuck to the underground.

But maybe the 'ahead of their time' term could be used to Madlib since like you said, his style was influential to Dilla and to hip-hop of his time and later. But even moreso than Dilla, he was overlooked.

<--- Me when my head hits the pillow

for dumb ass consumers and a music industry bent on selling fantasy and/or dysfunction.

<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

some artists just want to express a feel and they're fortunate enough to have found an outlet/conduit/connect who can relay that feel to a broad scope of people - unadulterated, as the artist intended. It resonates and become massive in its appeal.

But the business of music plays on people's insecurities (both the artist and the audience) for the capitalization on the dollar.

you're never 'ahead of your time'. all artists are 'on time'. everything happens as it should. But if YOU as a person are hung up on the pop-ularity constest, you're just standing in front of a very fast merry-go-round, hoping YOUR TIME will come to get on.

It may never come. That fucks people up. they have placed a value on their creation that's tied to some bullshit - by bullshit I mean 'the record business'.

IG: amadu_me

"...Whateva, man..." (c) Redman

Being ahead of your time for an artist "use to" be a good thing for most artists cause the label "wanted" to keep you signed for the long haul, well not long haul but more like a two album deal, sometimes you can have one or two albums recorded that never get released cause the label is letting you find your niche & fans.

These days being ahead of your time is bad thing cause that means you haven't gained any fans, haven't earned any money, and your sound could be stolen by others who are looking to rip off artists "who are ahead of their time" just to make money cause they already have fans & listeners.

I've seen some neo-soul artists who were ahead of their time get their style taken by others and get well known off of it, remember when Angie Stone said D'Angelo (her baby daddy) said he learn from her and then ran with it, or when Maxwell came out it was about a dozen artists that tried to copy (such as Olu, Eric Benet, Musiq Soulchild, etc.) some flopped while others got a hit or two; and don't get me started on all the Sade, Soul II Soul, Erykah Badu, & Janet Jackson clones over the years; sometimes it pays off sometimes it doesn't.

https://tinyurl.com/y4ba6hog

---------
"We in here talking about later career Prince records
& your fool ass is cruising around in a time machine
trying to collect props for a couple of sociopathic degenerates" - s.blak

It's great to see people in tune with themselves...able to move the movement forward in their mind, in getting their art done, in sharing that art.

BUT...

It sucks when you see people stuck on "lil' cute schitt" (words YOU GOTTA SAY TO GET THEY ATTENTION, production techniques that pacify the masses), associations/co-signs, etc. that exacerbate the nepotism/payoloa vibe you get when you hear what the mainstream is riding.

You drop something...
*crickets*
Wack Pop Act #4081 decides to ride your vibe (see: Phonte/Drake) and BLOWS THE FUCK UP $$$$$$$$$$$$

That's gotta be both validating and torture at the same time.

I'm keeping it lite, cuz...schitt could get heavy.

s.blak
Way Ahead Of My Time

keep: looking,searching,seeking,finding

literally, from conception.

none of us are the result of the first sperm to reach the egg.

that fake-deep shit aside, how the hell was Van Hunt ahead of his time?

everything he did sounded derivative to me. what did he do first?