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Subject: "Avant-garde jazz " Previous topic | Next topic
hip bopper
Member since Jun 22nd 2003
6021 posts
Thu Oct-26-17 10:32 AM

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"Avant-garde jazz "


          

We have come with the most far out hip hop records. Now let’s bring out the most far out jazz records.

I will start with Ornette Coleman:

https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL3CORvPuwGFBjWrJaDn7KL3zBT37z0oQd

https://m.youtube.com/watch?list=PLe8JAHc-WH2AeI12VcXGL6BuSS_BKisXT&v=a16O9Ns_xno

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xbZIiom9rDA

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0hIEPPfVcVE

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WEtbEdV3nko

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oBTheWr9x7k

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ua5S8UmoeWs

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xg6ygbd5Wfs

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=r1xl2cPs3U4

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
Sonny Sharrock - Black Woman
Oct 26th 2017
1
This shit is straight fire!!!!!!
Oct 26th 2017
2
RE: Avant-garde jazz
Oct 27th 2017
3
nice list dude! :-)
Oct 27th 2017
4
      Thanks!
Oct 27th 2017
6
           RE: Thanks!
Oct 28th 2017
9
                RE: Thanks!
Oct 28th 2017
12
                     RE: Thanks!
Oct 28th 2017
13
                          wow. I missed that thread
Oct 28th 2017
16
Don Cherry
Oct 27th 2017
5
Some cool jams:
Oct 27th 2017
7
another nice list! dubble thumbs up. :-)
Oct 28th 2017
10
han bennink playing tabla! wtf!? awesome! haha
Oct 28th 2017
11
      Yup!
Oct 28th 2017
14
RE: Avant-garde jazz
Oct 28th 2017
8
Matthew Shipp
Oct 28th 2017
15
Mazz Swift
Oct 28th 2017
17
Art Ensemble of Chicago
Oct 29th 2017
18
Jon Bap "Yesterday's Homily"
Oct 29th 2017
19
Dope
Oct 29th 2017
20
Have you guys ever given this Coltrane record a listen?
Nov 01st 2017
21
a few that maybe you guys haven't heard.
Nov 05th 2017
22
RE: a few that maybe you guys haven't heard.
Nov 05th 2017
24
Have you heard this record?
Nov 12th 2017
38
      RE: Have you heard this record?
Nov 13th 2017
39
It is the awesome n/m
Nov 05th 2017
23
Ivo Perelman
Nov 06th 2017
25
I LOVE YOU PEOPLE I LOVE THIS PLACE
Nov 06th 2017
26
Rahsaan Roland Kirk
Nov 06th 2017
27
good stuff, thanks!
Nov 12th 2017
36
      Not a problem
Nov 12th 2017
37
more
Nov 07th 2017
28
Man I was going to post Marion next... lol
Nov 07th 2017
30
      nice. hehe
Nov 08th 2017
32
           Most definitely
Nov 08th 2017
33
gotta post some coltrane. :-)
Nov 07th 2017
29
Eddie Gale
Nov 07th 2017
31
Mahavishnu Orchestra & Mahavishnu John McLaughlin
Nov 08th 2017
34
Herbie Hancock Mwandishi
Nov 11th 2017
35
evan parker/derek bailey/han bennink - the topography of the lungs
Nov 14th 2017
40
Some new blood: Christian Scott
Nov 14th 2017
41
RE: Some new blood: Christian Scott
Nov 14th 2017
42
      How do you feel about Esperanza Spalding's latest album?
Nov 15th 2017
44
           RE: How do you feel about Esperanza Spalding's latest album?
Nov 15th 2017
46
           I loved this album
Nov 15th 2017
56
Chick Corea - Return to Forever
Nov 14th 2017
43
Art Ensemble of Chicago (again)
Nov 15th 2017
45
more new blood: tyshawn sorey - verisimilitude
Nov 15th 2017
47
RE: more new blood: tyshawn sorey - verisimilitude
Nov 15th 2017
48
yup.
Nov 15th 2017
50
Nice! I can definitely hear the Xenakis influence
Nov 15th 2017
52
Steve Lehman
Nov 15th 2017
49
love that octet record.
Nov 15th 2017
51
      Yeah great stuff
Nov 15th 2017
54
Jon Benjamin's Jazz Dare Devil
Nov 15th 2017
53
Frank Lowe
Nov 15th 2017
55
Free improvisation: still the ultimate in underground music? (swipe)
Nov 16th 2017
57
What do you agree with... and what don’t you agree with?
Nov 16th 2017
58
      RE: What do you agree with... and what don’t you agree with?
Nov 17th 2017
59
           Good points
Nov 17th 2017
62
                i don't know.
Nov 18th 2017
63
henry threadgill sextett - theme from thomas cole
Nov 17th 2017
60
Makaya McCraven - Highly Rare
Nov 17th 2017
61

Stringer Bell
Member since Mar 15th 2004
2896 posts
Thu Oct-26-17 04:45 PM

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1. "Sonny Sharrock - Black Woman"
In response to Reply # 0


          

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_FBREnqelU

  

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hip bopper
Member since Jun 22nd 2003
6021 posts
Thu Oct-26-17 05:13 PM

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2. "This shit is straight fire!!!!!!"
In response to Reply # 1


          

  

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Kosa12
Member since Jul 19th 2006
4801 posts
Fri Oct-27-17 12:02 AM

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3. "RE: Avant-garde jazz "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Older:

Bill Dixon: https://youtu.be/1hSezaFqXc8
John Coltrane: https://youtu.be/TuzfMR-7v1I
Alice Coltrane: https://youtu.be/HLwjsvrGAq4
Cecil Taylor: https://youtu.be/e_VthdlXvp0
Andrew Hill: https://youtu.be/zwWO8UYjmfI
Pharaoh Sanders: https://youtu.be/5aoSMnvje6A
Sun Ra: https://youtu.be/iEOb3vsC3-0
Sam Rivers: https://youtu.be/V906LOooYO8
Horace Tapscott: https://youtu.be/7ow-PrBqgcc

Modern:

Tomas Fujiwara: https://youtu.be/2n3-F0zril0
Mary Halvorson: https://youtu.be/iAHc2mLJ1sE
Vijay Iyer: https://youtu.be/zLxVisyR0o4
Taylor Ho Bynum: https://youtu.be/pKdDgzy6CUQ
Tomeka Reid: https://youtu.be/wtex6cVdiGI
Matana Roberts: https://youtu.be/U2Undhzx-wA

----------
https://rateyourmusic.com/~Kosa12

  

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A Love Supreme
Member since Nov 25th 2003
2747 posts
Fri Oct-27-17 02:39 AM

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4. "nice list dude! :-)"
In response to Reply # 3


          

  

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Kosa12
Member since Jul 19th 2006
4801 posts
Fri Oct-27-17 09:44 PM

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6. "Thanks!"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

I've really been on an avant garde vibe lately with jazz, specifically Mary Halvorson related stuff (she is on the Tomeka Reid, Ho Bynum, Fujiwara), I know she isn't for everything, but she just has such a unique style, that "Away With You" record is really something and whenever she plays as a sideman she always adjusts accordingly while still keeping her signature style

And that Matana Roberts album I linked to has some of the most unsettling, uncomfortable, visceral stuff I've heard from an emotional/musical stand point...I have to be in a certain mood for it but it is basically like a movie when I am haha

----------
https://rateyourmusic.com/~Kosa12

  

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A Love Supreme
Member since Nov 25th 2003
2747 posts
Sat Oct-28-17 04:04 AM

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9. "RE: Thanks!"
In response to Reply # 6
Sat Oct-28-17 04:10 AM by A Love Supreme

          

i like mary halvorson too. i even saw her live once with her trio. it was fantastic!

haven't heard matana roberts much but from what i've heard it seems like she is on that old school free jazz sound. might have to listen more though.

also, i looove that bill dixon record, intents and purposes.

  

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Kosa12
Member since Jul 19th 2006
4801 posts
Sat Oct-28-17 07:33 AM

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12. "RE: Thanks!"
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

Yeah I've seen her live twice, her Village Vanguard gig a couple months ago with her Octet was absolutely incredible. I actually just got into that Bill Dixon album the other day - I didn't even know who he was until I heard that the last song on that Taylor Ho Bynum album was dedicated to him. That Bill Dixon album is great though, really like how the strings are used in it and his playing is great

----------
https://rateyourmusic.com/~Kosa12

  

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Jakob Hellberg
Member since Apr 18th 2005
9732 posts
Sat Oct-28-17 09:11 AM

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13. "RE: Thanks!"
In response to Reply # 12


          

Here's some stuff I wrote about Bill Dixon some years ago: http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=5&topic_id=2893504&mesg_id=2893504&listing_type=search#2896066

I mixed up "Son of sisyphus" and "Thoughts" (I meant the latter), otherwise, I stand by what I wrote; this boxset of his Soul Note records is highly recommended and quite a bargain: https://www.discogs.com/Bill-Dixon-The-Complete-Remastered-Recordings-On-Black-Saint-Soul-Note/release/3535293

Of course, they have literally all those records on Spotify too but whatever...

Anyway, BIG fan of dude and he was extremely important as a teacher/ideologist etc. in 60's free jazz; it was he who started the Jazz Composers Guild for example and also organized the october revolution in jazz in NYC in '64. Unfortunately, his discography in the 60's and 70's is very small but he made up for it in the 80's and continued to make music in his trademark style-no compromises...

  

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Kosa12
Member since Jul 19th 2006
4801 posts
Sat Oct-28-17 07:04 PM

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16. "wow. I missed that thread"
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

that is one of the best threads I've ever seen on this board haha

----------
https://rateyourmusic.com/~Kosa12

  

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hip bopper
Member since Jun 22nd 2003
6021 posts
Fri Oct-27-17 08:18 AM

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5. "Don Cherry"
In response to Reply # 0


          

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Xk0ypnd01bw

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WS8PK53DYGA

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3iv72L-7bz4

https://m.youtube.com/watch?list=PL4fVbdWiJlTsH8RgYsN3rnrH69J1Umgkh&v=JSFWG6WUz8I

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=W32Am2co82s

  

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Jakob Hellberg
Member since Apr 18th 2005
9732 posts
Fri Oct-27-17 11:51 PM

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7. "Some cool jams:"
In response to Reply # 0
Sat Oct-28-17 12:04 AM by Jakob Hellberg

          

Rashied Ali&Frank lowe-Duo Exchange:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvAmsWNVgZE

Charles Tyler-Saga of the Outlaws:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VA3BKZr170

Frank Wright & Noah howard-Church nr 9.:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvAIUnKoQiA (pt1 I couldn't fin )

Archie Shepp-One for Trane pt II:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIcWbU10NH4 Peep the saxophone *TONE*!!! Illest ever...

Robin Kenyatta-You Know How We Do:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAqO8izZ3mA&index=3&list=PL7_IIKq9aeZ9nEmJR9bw5dmqZRKFNVA2v

Dewey Redman-look for the black star:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPsYS3Kr1IA&t=2175s

Ornette Coleman-Trouble in te east (mistitled on record; Space Jungle is anoter tune):https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkgsT6qtXJE

Ornette (again)-Law Years:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGPFNGTTdTs

Cecil Taylor (=GOAT!!!)-Spring of...:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AQq8fTkNxU

Albert Ayler-Summertime (MONSTER version!!!):https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Id6N30MuII

Sam Rivers-Tranquility:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sK6wBT2Fi4Y

Anthony braxton (solo!!!)-To pianist Cecil Taylor:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUSsGKiAjgk

Don Cherry-the Thing:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1Nk4tLDz-Y

Aaly Trio-Würzburg:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAFZvL5Ha3A

bill Dixon-Voices:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKcfbaeMD-g

Marion Brown-Porto Novo:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fRqcLO5jVk

...and so on. Mainly stuff from 60's-early 70's since that's where my interest primarily lays, I like later avantgarde stuff to though as evidenced y my Aaly Trio link.





  

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A Love Supreme
Member since Nov 25th 2003
2747 posts
Sat Oct-28-17 04:12 AM

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10. "another nice list! dubble thumbs up. :-)"
In response to Reply # 7


          

that archie shepp recording is amazing.

  

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A Love Supreme
Member since Nov 25th 2003
2747 posts
Sat Oct-28-17 04:52 AM

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11. "han bennink playing tabla! wtf!? awesome! haha"
In response to Reply # 7


          

  

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Jakob Hellberg
Member since Apr 18th 2005
9732 posts
Sat Oct-28-17 09:14 AM

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14. "Yup!"
In response to Reply # 11


          

That whole album is a scorcher-it was recorded for a dutch radio broadcast and is much looser than Brown's records on ESP and impulse with Bennink in particularly just spazzing out in his wacky style and also playing a little tabla and shit. Strangely, it's my favorite Marion Brown album...

  

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hip bopper
Member since Jun 22nd 2003
6021 posts
Sat Oct-28-17 01:08 AM

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8. "RE: Avant-garde jazz "
In response to Reply # 0
Sat Oct-28-17 01:15 AM by hip bopper

          

Here’s one from Joe that was out there.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Dga4Ie74U0Q


Tony Williams Lifetime

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxeiY5kXz8Y

https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLP-NUTVLbG4j2xswsaRKDh81is89lIMjQ

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Nb3lXma4v1A

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OnV6o_KDMHY

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wMHj0POJqFw




  

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hip bopper
Member since Jun 22nd 2003
6021 posts
Sat Oct-28-17 10:41 AM

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15. "Matthew Shipp"
In response to Reply # 0


          

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=L7hWtnhYh8c

https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLQ2MYrzRKgIKqyHc04P1imfXdzsLoUes9

https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLIXCvTLKXWuFN67NGUIOyOWID9jL2Ei5F

https://destination-out.bandcamp.com/album/before-the-world

http://bandcamp.for-tune.pl/album/not-bound

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AgBv9scDsPc

  

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hip bopper
Member since Jun 22nd 2003
6021 posts
Sat Oct-28-17 08:46 PM

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17. "Mazz Swift"
In response to Reply # 0


          

https://intlanthem.bandcamp.com/album/not-living-in-fear

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3XxXq0Uyl_w

  

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hip bopper
Member since Jun 22nd 2003
6021 posts
Sun Oct-29-17 02:28 AM

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18. "Art Ensemble of Chicago "
In response to Reply # 0


          

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=31YaAXC8ciE

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kDZg-M1x6mM

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kqyWHaW9CaA

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MrJPohi02cc

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Zio-8p5TDIU

  

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atruhead
Charter member
83549 posts
Sun Oct-29-17 10:16 AM

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19. "Jon Bap "Yesterday's Homily""
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

https://jonbap.bandcamp.com/album/yesterdays-homily

I suggested it to my dad and he liked it. he's into jazz the way Im into Hip-Hop

  

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hip bopper
Member since Jun 22nd 2003
6021 posts
Sun Oct-29-17 10:45 AM

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20. "Dope"
In response to Reply # 19
Sun Oct-29-17 10:59 AM by hip bopper

          

Have you ever put him on to this oldie but goodie???

https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL590CE3E40099F736

  

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hip bopper
Member since Jun 22nd 2003
6021 posts
Wed Nov-01-17 01:06 PM

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21. "Have you guys ever given this Coltrane record a listen?"
In response to Reply # 0


          

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=x2HZQ70hpbU

  

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A Love Supreme
Member since Nov 25th 2003
2747 posts
Sun Nov-05-17 04:16 AM

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22. "a few that maybe you guys haven't heard."
In response to Reply # 0


          

not specifically thinking in "avant guard" terms just some good stuff that i like.

darek bailey - improvisation 1975
solo guitar
https://youtu.be/mfMVQ-DvAB8

tony oxley - ichnos
w/evan parker, barry guy, evan parker, kenny wheeler and paul rutherford
https://youtu.be/4JEp_UUwq7E

fieldwork - live at le poisson rouge, nyc 2008
vijay iyer, steve lehman, tyshawn sorey
https://youtu.be/mlw24oWkgMo

  

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hip bopper
Member since Jun 22nd 2003
6021 posts
Sun Nov-05-17 11:31 PM

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24. "RE: a few that maybe you guys haven't heard."
In response to Reply # 22


          

That Darek Bailey and Tony Oxley is nice.

I have checked out Vijay Iyer... dude is nice.

  

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hip bopper
Member since Jun 22nd 2003
6021 posts
Sun Nov-12-17 11:10 PM

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38. "Have you heard this record?"
In response to Reply # 22


          

Dave Holland and Derek Bailey

Improvisations for Cello and Guitar

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Yl_ObKL3Y9s

  

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A Love Supreme
Member since Nov 25th 2003
2747 posts
Mon Nov-13-17 03:12 AM

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39. "RE: Have you heard this record?"
In response to Reply # 38


          

yeah, i think i have. sounds really good.

  

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johnbook
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Sun Nov-05-17 06:05 PM

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23. "It is the awesome n/m"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


THE HOME OF BOOK-NESS:
http://thisisbooksmusic.wordpress.com
http://twitter.com/thisisjohnbook
http://www.facebook.com/book1


http://i32.tinypic.com/kbewp4.gif
http://i60.tinypic.com/a59mp3.jpg

  

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hip bopper
Member since Jun 22nd 2003
6021 posts
Mon Nov-06-17 12:08 AM

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25. "Ivo Perelman"
In response to Reply # 0


          

https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLWogjQLocFYUzcgHVlqc8DEoCQ9tkWRHm

https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLARWvlpkicFpHl3T7DO7CcN79ztKaCRAW

https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLk5HwpdvWv3X8TtQfxl56q8fIAVHrt07G

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=D5rdlkZTqeY

  

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stone_phalanges
Member since Mar 06th 2010
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Mon Nov-06-17 04:48 PM

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26. "I LOVE YOU PEOPLE I LOVE THIS PLACE"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

this is why I come here

www.anwarmorse.com
Stone-phalanges.deviantart.com

  

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hip bopper
Member since Jun 22nd 2003
6021 posts
Mon Nov-06-17 07:11 PM

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27. "Rahsaan Roland Kirk"
In response to Reply # 0


          

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UKYDec_2B1o

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vQJS6lZjh74

  

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Deacon Blues
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Sun Nov-12-17 03:48 PM

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36. "good stuff, thanks!"
In response to Reply # 27


  

          

dude

  

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hip bopper
Member since Jun 22nd 2003
6021 posts
Sun Nov-12-17 03:59 PM

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37. "Not a problem"
In response to Reply # 36


          

  

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A Love Supreme
Member since Nov 25th 2003
2747 posts
Tue Nov-07-17 03:46 AM

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28. "more"
In response to Reply # 0


          

marion brown septett - juba lee
https://youtu.be/roESXC73jLw

jimmy guiffre, paul bley, steve swallow
flight from the album emphasis & flight 1961
https://open.spotify.com/track/0VBrMLXYCxf0buwJlPplOK

it's not on youtube.

  

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hip bopper
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30. "Man I was going to post Marion next... lol"
In response to Reply # 28


          

Good stuff

  

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A Love Supreme
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32. "nice. hehe"
In response to Reply # 30


          

that guiffre/bley/swallow trio was ahead of their time imo.

  

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hip bopper
Member since Jun 22nd 2003
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33. "Most definitely "
In response to Reply # 32


          

>that guiffre/bley/swallow trio was ahead of their time imo.

  

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A Love Supreme
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29. "gotta post some coltrane. :-)"
In response to Reply # 0


          

song of praise from live at the half note
https://youtu.be/n-NWoR3DGJI

  

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hip bopper
Member since Jun 22nd 2003
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31. "Eddie Gale"
In response to Reply # 0


          

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jPNQzFQkZyg

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=G8nB5gaQggs

  

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hip bopper
Member since Jun 22nd 2003
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34. "Mahavishnu Orchestra & Mahavishnu John McLaughlin"
In response to Reply # 0


          

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YmNkGQm1YE4

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=a3Cwoz_JnyM

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=usoXOaoWRIQ

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=y3BFn4TuLL0

  

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hip bopper
Member since Jun 22nd 2003
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35. "Herbie Hancock Mwandishi"
In response to Reply # 0


          

https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLUfYhiL9NqMeJbup74TLM3dMQNj_D5154

  

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A Love Supreme
Member since Nov 25th 2003
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40. "evan parker/derek bailey/han bennink - the topography of the lungs"
In response to Reply # 0


          

https://youtu.be/GJZuf4OiMcQ

  

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mind_grapes
Member since Nov 13th 2007
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Tue Nov-14-17 02:55 PM

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41. "Some new blood: Christian Scott"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Not exactly avant gaurd, since its sooo melodic. But the way he incorporates all these different musical elements is absolutely genius. I think there is something, at this point, avant guard about playing Jazz music that is designed to be as well crafted as a pop album with a million dollar plus budget. This guy is introducing prepared piano, electronic drum programming, poly rhythms, and even novel distribution channels. He released his last album as an app, so musicians can hone in on each instrumental part, see the musical notation, and play along.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuGc7YvQzeM&t=2453s

  

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hip bopper
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42. "RE: Some new blood: Christian Scott"
In response to Reply # 41


          

>Not exactly avant gaurd, since its sooo melodic. But the way
>he incorporates all these different musical elements is
>absolutely genius. I think there is something, at this point,
>avant guard about playing Jazz music that is designed to be as
>well crafted as a pop album with a million dollar plus budget.
>This guy is introducing prepared piano, electronic drum
>programming, poly rhythms, and even novel distribution
>channels. He released his last album as an app, so musicians
>can hone in on each instrumental part, see the musical
>notation, and play along.
>
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuGc7YvQzeM&t=2453s

No not avant-garde but the melodies are not traditional. Hopefully he will move to a move avant-garde sound in the future.

  

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mind_grapes
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44. "How do you feel about Esperanza Spalding's latest album?"
In response to Reply # 42


          

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDrEHphZbcE

It's definitely avant guard for a blues and hard rock album, but I don't know if I would call it jazz.

  

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hip bopper
Member since Jun 22nd 2003
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46. "RE: How do you feel about Esperanza Spalding's latest album?"
In response to Reply # 44
Wed Nov-15-17 11:28 AM by hip bopper

          

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDrEHphZbcE
>
>It's definitely avant guard for a blues and hard rock album,
>but I don't know if I would call it jazz.

It don’t know if I wouldn’t call it jazz since the genre has given birth to many sounds. It was definitely a progressive rock/blue grass sound. I thought it was pretty good.

If you take this recording for instance...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ayDDa0SnUuc

It has a definite progressive rock/jazz feel to it.

Artists such as Tony Williams Lifetime, Mahavishnu Orchestra, or Mary Halvorson to name a few could bend the genre to make the sound wanted. In Esperanza’s case while the album is good, I wonder how far she will continue to go in this direction.

  

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Kosa12
Member since Jul 19th 2006
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56. "I loved this album"
In response to Reply # 44


  

          

to me it wasn't avant garde in the way that I think of the term in regards to jazz, but what it was was a great LP of fusion-ish things and occasionally funk-ish and psych-rock ish things fit into a pop song length. That was one of my favorite albums of that year

----------
https://rateyourmusic.com/~Kosa12

  

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hip bopper
Member since Jun 22nd 2003
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Tue Nov-14-17 11:33 PM

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43. "Chick Corea - Return to Forever"
In response to Reply # 0


          

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0TcSK6MYkpU

  

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hip bopper
Member since Jun 22nd 2003
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Wed Nov-15-17 11:11 AM

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45. "Art Ensemble of Chicago (again)"
In response to Reply # 0


          

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RXzQUa9qHhY

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=60HhZmssjPE

  

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A Love Supreme
Member since Nov 25th 2003
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Wed Nov-15-17 11:30 AM

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47. "more new blood: tyshawn sorey - verisimilitude"
In response to Reply # 0


          

w/cory smyth and chris tordini
https://tyshawn-sorey.bandcamp.com/album/verisimilitude

  

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hip bopper
Member since Jun 22nd 2003
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Wed Nov-15-17 11:46 AM

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48. "RE: more new blood: tyshawn sorey - verisimilitude"
In response to Reply # 47


          

This is amazing!!!!!!

  

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A Love Supreme
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50. "yup."
In response to Reply # 48


          

  

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mind_grapes
Member since Nov 13th 2007
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52. "Nice! I can definitely hear the Xenakis influence"
In response to Reply # 47


          

It gets really interesting around the 6 min mark. What instrument is that, a glockenspiel? The way the percussion starts subtly interacting with the piano part is mind blowing.

It's so sparse and glacial, when anything happens your mind immediately grabs on to it and then it just kinda dissipates until something new pops up.

  

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hip bopper
Member since Jun 22nd 2003
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Wed Nov-15-17 12:39 PM

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49. "Steve Lehman"
In response to Reply # 0


          

https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLiHoHaF6SHc-H5_QRWZKFel2dWgVhpTd0

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-hcAggZjz_w

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CYTsTtmw5lY

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WxfkssXdgVc

  

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A Love Supreme
Member since Nov 25th 2003
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Wed Nov-15-17 01:52 PM

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51. "love that octet record."
In response to Reply # 49


          

pi recordings releases a lot of great stuff.

also, it's weird that we haven't "met" on the boards before.

  

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hip bopper
Member since Jun 22nd 2003
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54. "Yeah great stuff"
In response to Reply # 51


          

I rarely post on here. I had been gone for some years and I just started posting again recently.

  

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mind_grapes
Member since Nov 13th 2007
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53. "Jon Benjamin's Jazz Dare Devil"
In response to Reply # 0


          

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yS5p4M08jJs&index=2&list=PL5Fsk3NnpU7PQoA7fJAQvbhdpFsoZPY0u

You're welcome in advance LOL

  

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hip bopper
Member since Jun 22nd 2003
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Wed Nov-15-17 03:24 PM

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55. "Frank Lowe"
In response to Reply # 0


          

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mdaMdBDsRD0

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BU_ANAC5N_s

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VhTDmjngPjU



Rashied Ali + Frank Lowe

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2WpJ3qzNqkY

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=G_R7DvIQOSM



  

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A Love Supreme
Member since Nov 25th 2003
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Thu Nov-16-17 09:31 AM

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57. "Free improvisation: still the ultimate in underground music? (swipe)"
In response to Reply # 0


          

This belongs here even though I don't personally agree with everything that is being said about preforming or listening to free improv. Still worth a read.

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2017/nov/15/free-improvisation-jazz-ultimate-underground-music

Free improvisation: still the ultimate in underground music?

Pioneered in the 1950s by musicians breaking the rules of jazz and composition, free improvisation is still as difficult – and potentially transcendent – as it ever was. A Guardian documentary takes you inside its world

by Noah Payne-Frank

“There are people that hear it once and think: never again!” says Evan Parker of free improvisation, a musical style that some might compare to a jazz band falling down the stairs – and others find transcendental. “Then there are people who hear it once and say, ‘My god, what was that?’ But they creep back, because there’s something that’s connected for them. There’s a worldview involved that touches people.” This short film, as part of the Guardian’s series on underground music, featuring Parker as well as other free improv luminaries such as John Edwards and Eddie Prévost, gives you a six-minute taste of this worldview.
Free improvisation: still the ultimate in underground music?

Parker has spent 50 years playing his saxophone without a song sheet, without notation and often without any idea of how a performance is going to evolve. I’ve seen the moment he describes unfold a number of times. At a Parker show in 2014, a clean-cut couple sat next to me watched the first 50-minute set of the evening in near silence, before turning to me to exclaim: “What the hell just happened?” An hour later they said: “Well, it’s something to tell them about at work tomorrow …”

None of this is to say that the music is elitist – in fact it represents the absolute rejection of the elite. The origins are disputed, but at some point in the late 1950s jazz players and modern composers who were repelled by the codification conservatism of their peers and broke free. There is no manifesto, no union or club you can join, just a shared worldview and an acceptance that no one is going to get rich from it. The claims of non-hierarchical band structures are not always borne out – you can’t deny the seniority of experience, or the person who organised the gig – but this is as close as you’re going to get to a music that reflects socialist values.

All of this makes it the ultimate in underground music. The music is simply too inaccessible for the mainstream, and no one involved is particularly interested in it anyway.

There are key recordings – Parker’s Topography of the Lungs, AMM’s AMMMusic – but for many of the musicians, the process of making the music is as important as the results. This creates a suspicion that free improvisation is simply music for musicians, that an audience can never get close to it in the same way a performer can. There is some truth in this. Occasionally at live shows, you feel as if you’ve intruded on someone’s private space, or that you’re watching scientists at work in the lab. But if you put the effort in and offer yourself to it, the shock you might feel at first will recede, and, as Parker says, you’ll creep back.

  

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hip bopper
Member since Jun 22nd 2003
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58. "What do you agree with... and what don’t you agree with?"
In response to Reply # 57


          

>This belongs here even though I don't personally agree with
>everything that is being said about preforming or listening to
>free improv. Still worth a read.
>
>https://www.theguardian.com/music/2017/nov/15/free-improvisation-jazz-ultimate-underground-music
>
>Free improvisation: still the ultimate in underground music?
>
>Pioneered in the 1950s by musicians breaking the rules of jazz
>and composition, free improvisation is still as difficult –
>and potentially transcendent – as it ever was. A Guardian
>documentary takes you inside its world
>
>by Noah Payne-Frank
>
>“There are people that hear it once and think: never
>again!” says Evan Parker of free improvisation, a musical
>style that some might compare to a jazz band falling down the
>stairs – and others find transcendental. “Then there are
>people who hear it once and say, ‘My god, what was that?’
>But they creep back, because there’s something that’s
>connected for them. There’s a worldview involved that
>touches people.” This short film, as part of the
>Guardian’s series on underground music, featuring Parker as
>well as other free improv luminaries such as John Edwards and
>Eddie Prévost, gives you a six-minute taste of this
>worldview.
>Free improvisation: still the ultimate in underground music?
>

I do experience with people who hear avant-garde (free improv) for the first time and their reaction is one of which it looks like they ate an onion. You do have to truly appreciate the stuff that we listen to because not everyone is going to appreciate it. Is it what I consider underground... NO!!!! There are some free improvisers that have been accept by a majority of jazz listeners.

>None of this is to say that the music is elitist – in fact
>it represents the absolute rejection of the elite. The origins
>are disputed, but at some point in the late 1950s jazz players
>and modern composers who were repelled by the codification
>conservatism of their peers and broke free. There is no
>manifesto, no union or club you can join, just a shared
>worldview and an acceptance that no one is going to get rich
>from it. The claims of non-hierarchical band structures are
>not always borne out – you can’t deny the seniority of
>experience, or the person who organised the gig – but this
>is as close as you’re going to get to a music that reflects
>socialist values.
>
I think this is a very true statement. I feel that straight ahead jazz musicians have always felt that they are the elite... that they play true jazz music. I remember reading articles, statements from Wynton and Crouch pretty much condemning free improvisers. Also Kool and the Gang walking out in disgust at a Sun Ra concert. There definitely has to be an appreciation for this form of art.


>All of this makes it the ultimate in underground music. The
>music is simply too inaccessible for the mainstream, and no
>one involved is particularly interested in it anyway.
>

Avant-garde has never been inaccessible. In fact it is very accessible, it’s just that some choose not to want to have access.

>There are key recordings – Parker’s Topography of the
>Lungs, AMM’s AMMMusic – but for many of the musicians, the
>process of making the music is as important as the results.
>This creates a suspicion that free improvisation is simply
>music for musicians, that an audience can never get close to
>it in the same way a performer can. There is some truth in
>this. Occasionally at live shows, you feel as if you’ve
>intruded on someone’s private space, or that you’re
>watching scientists at work in the lab. But if you put the
>effort in and offer yourself to it, the shock you might feel
>at first will recede, and, as Parker says, you’ll creep
>back.

Not sure where Parker was going with this... but okay. No matter what the genre is, at live shows you are always sharing your music with your audience. It is way more personal at a live show than a record for sure. It is more intimate because the listener has gone beyond the realm of just listening to the record to seeing the artist in person and possibly have a conversation with them. How is this intrusion?

  

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A Love Supreme
Member since Nov 25th 2003
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Fri Nov-17-17 11:08 AM

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59. "RE: What do you agree with... and what don’t you agree with?"
In response to Reply # 58


          

>Pioneered in the 1950s by musicians breaking the rules of jazz
>and composition, free improvisation is still as difficult –
>and potentially transcendent – as it ever was. A Guardian
>documentary takes you inside its world

to me it's not difficult. in fact, it's very simple and direct. you will feel it instantly. that is to say if the performance is open and including.

>“There are people that hear it once and think: never
>again!” says Evan Parker of free improvisation, a musical
>style that some might compare to a jazz band falling down the
>stairs – and others find transcendental. “Then there are
>people who hear it once and say, ‘My god, what was that?’
>But they creep back, because there’s something that’s
>connected for them. There’s a worldview involved that
>touches people.”

yes, some people react this way but to me it's not important if you like/not like it, or if you feel that you would or wouldn't go to a improv concert again. the experience then and there is the thing. what happens after is not important. also, every improv concert is not the same. for starters, they can sound wildly different from each other and also i would say that the intent of the musicians can vary a lot, and that shows in the music and the experience of listening.

the woldview thing. yeah, maybe for the most part.

>None of this is to say that the music is elitist – in fact
>it represents the absolute rejection of the elite. The origins
>are disputed, but at some point in the late 1950s jazz players
>and modern composers who were repelled by the codification
>conservatism of their peers and broke free. There is no
>manifesto, no union or club you can join, just a shared
>worldview and an acceptance that no one is going to get rich
>from it. The claims of non-hierarchical band structures are
>not always borne out – you can’t deny the seniority of
>experience, or the person who organised the gig – but this
>is as close as you’re going to get to a music that reflects
>socialist values.

about the rejection of the elite. yeah, definitely back in the days but nowadays people choose to play so called free improv for different reasons and have different intent in doing so.

wynton and crouch are elitist but there definitely are elitist among improv musicians now too.

in an ideal session there is no hierarchy at all but i think that rarely is the case. even though there is no outspoken hierarchy (or more of an authority i would say), it occurs while the performance is happening.

i can try and explain it better if you want. i have some experience in this.

>There are key recordings – Parker’s Topography of the
>Lungs, AMM’s AMMMusic – but for many of the musicians, the
>process of making the music is as important as the results.
>This creates a suspicion that free improvisation is simply
>music for musicians, that an audience can never get close to
>it in the same way a performer can. There is some truth in
>this. Occasionally at live shows, you feel as if you’ve
>intruded on someone’s private space, or that you’re
>watching scientists at work in the lab. But if you put the
>effort in and offer yourself to it, the shock you might feel
>at first will recede, and, as Parker says, you’ll creep
>back.

i think the only part of this paragraph that is parkers is "you'll creep back", the rest is the writer of the article. it's weird that he says that musicians feel that the result is important. i think it's mostly not the case.

about the music for musicians. i think it often becomes that due to the performance not being open and including as i mentioned before. also, musicians playing strictly from their ego. if it is open, inclusive and non authoritarian, the listener is exectly as much of a part of the creation as the musician.

about the intruding into someone's space, i don't know where he gets that. maybe the writer experienced that.

  

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hip bopper
Member since Jun 22nd 2003
6021 posts
Fri Nov-17-17 09:03 PM

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62. "Good points"
In response to Reply # 59


          

How much of your jazz collection is avant-garde (free improv)?

  

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A Love Supreme
Member since Nov 25th 2003
2747 posts
Sat Nov-18-17 02:19 PM

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63. "i don't know."
In response to Reply # 62


          

probably less than a third of it. i have a friend who is a record collector. he has a lot of improv/free jazz records.

  

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A Love Supreme
Member since Nov 25th 2003
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Fri Nov-17-17 11:37 AM

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60. "henry threadgill sextett - theme from thomas cole"
In response to Reply # 0


          

https://youtu.be/f1NKMV9YlWc

  

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hip bopper
Member since Jun 22nd 2003
6021 posts
Fri Nov-17-17 09:00 PM

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61. "Makaya McCraven - Highly Rare"
In response to Reply # 0


          

https://intlanthem.bandcamp.com/album/highly-rare

  

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