__________________________________________ CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!! ------------------------------------ Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this
5. "I don't think influence equals biting, but..." In response to Reply # 0
I do think it's weird that Dilla is seen as the father of the whole beat scene, when to my ears I feel like Madlib is the true catalyst for all that.
But both of them seemed to adopt things from each other. Madlib adopted more Dilla like percussion with off kilter claps, instead of the boom bap drums you hear in the Lootpack stuff. And I think Dilla was inspired by Madlib to go further left field and embrace the weird.
---- I check for: Serengeti, Zeroh, Open Mike Eagle, Jeremiah Jae, Moka Only.
8. "The question is where do you draw the line between biting and influence" In response to Reply # 0
Because even as early as 2003 Dilla was gravitating towards Madlib's approach to making beats: raw, unfiltered soul and prog rock. Donuts was simply Dilla at his most Madlib, and Dilla never kept it secret that Madlib was the only producer he feared.
The thing is that when Dilla was doing Madlib, he still had his unique touch that separated him artistically. Although many say that Madlib was equally influenced by Dilla, I think that's a huge stretch. Madlib certainly employed certain Dilla-like drum arrangements at times, but it was really Madlib who led the charge between the two as far as where they converged artistically. They, like Pete and Premier, were the two influencers of their day and are both to be seen as equals in the pantheon of beatmaking.
>Because even as early as 2003 Dilla was gravitating towards >Madlib's approach to making beats: raw, unfiltered soul and >prog rock. Donuts was simply Dilla at his most Madlib, and >Dilla never kept it secret that Madlib was the only producer >he feared. > >The thing is that when Dilla was doing Madlib, he still had >his unique touch that separated him artistically. Although >many say that Madlib was equally influenced by Dilla, I think >that's a huge stretch. Madlib certainly employed certain >Dilla-like drum arrangements at times, but it was really >Madlib who led the charge between the two as far as where they >converged artistically. They, like Pete and Premier, were the >two influencers of their day and are both to be seen as equals >in the pantheon of beatmaking.
15. "Lib is a Pete disciple too" In response to Reply # 14
everybody from that era bit Pete, including R&B and jazz guys.
__________________________________________ CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!! ------------------------------------ Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this
17. "he's #1 in my book when it comes to that" In response to Reply # 16
he shouldn't have been able to do work as expressive as he did with an SP-1200. Lots of guys have great beats with it, but nobody got nearly as much a visceral musical response with it.
__________________________________________ CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!! ------------------------------------ Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this
24. "I will never criticize someone having Pete as GOAT" In response to Reply # 16
But Madlib and Dilla are every bit the technical wizards that Pete Rock was. I think it boils down to preference at that level. My mount rushmore is Pete, Premier, Dilla and Madlib as far as pure beatmaking goes.
32. "Like I said, it boils down to preference" In response to Reply # 27
And even my own preference changes in different periods of my life. All four were masters whom I feel were every bit each other's equal with their own artistic integrity.
23. "He's even admitted as such" In response to Reply # 14
>>> Let’s start at the beginning; what’s the deal with that Lootpack Toyota video?
My father hooked that up. That’s embarrassing (laughs). That’s when I was trying to be like Pete Rock on the beats. My pops hooked that up and it was shown locally, everybody was laughing and shit.
25. "lmao. well it's a fact. Ppl who'd been listening to both for years" In response to Reply # 19
knew immediately when they heard Donuts, that it was Dilla doing his version of Madlib. Heavily influenced, yes. That was all covered in that old post. That actually kinda turned me off from Donuts at first tbh. Dilla was known for doing that at times tho. His version of Pete Rock joints and hell even Rockwilder who was hot at the time with the choppy stuff. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZCdK_o60R0 his biggest Pete tribute beat imo.
29. "Back then, we called it "calling them out"." In response to Reply # 20
Which I don't see anything wrong with, but then the Dilla disciples tried to act like his style had no origins. And that was a problem.
Hell, even Pete did it around the peak Bumpy Knuckles era, calling out Premier cause he was the most popular at that time. Oh y'all like all the chopping/scratching and such? I can do that easy...
48. "RE: well played sir. l like it" In response to Reply # 21
__________________________________________ CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!! ------------------------------------ Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this
22. "in all seriousness tho..." In response to Reply # 0
it seemed like the bat signal was thrown out by madlib one he put out them white labels with him rhyming over Dilla beats and calling it "Jaylib" waay before they linked and put out official music together. Things got a little tense once Dilla and his camp found out about it..
So even if it WAS the sensationalism that bblock is trying to portray, Dilla coming back YEARS later to freak a style Madlib has been doing was warranted....in a good 'kindred spirit' way.
34. "what's yourr point?" In response to Reply # 33
no snark, I'm trying to understand what you're saying.
__________________________________________ CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!! ------------------------------------ Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this
35. "Dilla had 17 different styles, none were biting to me" In response to Reply # 34
influence, sure but old Kev Brown beats reminded me of Pete Rock if anyone 1-900-Hustler and You, Me, Him and Her (Bink) sound like what Just Blaze's style developed into after the Dynasty album
37. "come on man he and his mom both said it" In response to Reply # 35
it's just a part of the process when you start out.
__________________________________________ CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!! ------------------------------------ Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this
40. "Anyone who doesn't consider Madlib and Dilla equals..." In response to Reply # 0
...needs to fall back.
They were always equals, musically. That's why they gravitated to one another, and that's why they had such great respect and admiration for one another. And also, that's why heads like me and more than a few people I know were so fucking excited when the Jaylib project was about to go down...
42. "I think it's pretty clear why people like Dilla better though" In response to Reply # 40
He is attached to some our favorite projects ever.
Outside of Madvillainy, Madlib is pretty low key and hasn't been attached to high profile projects like LWFC and Mama's Gun. Not to mention his influence on Voodoo.
47. "But he isn't credited to an entire sound like Dilla" In response to Reply # 46
Come on Block. You've been here as long as me.
?uest and this site is a large part of Dilla's legacy.
Maybe he would be Madlib levels of underground if ?uest, D'Angelo and Q-Tip weren't singing his praises and basically crediting him with being the influence of the entire neo-soul movement.
49. "...but it's important to recognize" In response to Reply # 47
...that Dilla had contemporaries. Is he the best of all time? Uh, maybe? He does have peers, and he does have the people who were at his level and who influenced him and who he influenced that were at his level. Madlib was prolific during the same period that Dilla was, and though the prestige wasn't quite the same at the time, the quality of the music always was, and continued to be through and through.
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