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Subject: "if madlib was doin' donut style beats BEFORE dilla, " Previous topic | Next topic
Bblock
Member since Feb 20th 2012
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Fri Sep-01-17 11:43 AM

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"if madlib was doin' donut style beats BEFORE dilla, "


  

          

https://soundcloud.com/rappcats/madlib-10-summers-old

did dilla bite?

and essentially, if dilla copied off of pete rock and improved and ran with pete's style, isn't that biting?

cuz if that's the case, why do we call just blaze out on bitin' bink! and not dilla on pete?

just cuz he did it better?

life always offers you a 2nd chance...it's called tomorrow. use it wisely

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
OF FUCK HERE WE GO
Sep 01st 2017
1
Donuts always sounded like Madlib to me. No dis.
Sep 01st 2017
2
facts
Sep 01st 2017
10
LOL. Bblock always tryna start something.
Sep 01st 2017
3
Midnight Marauders
Sep 01st 2017
4
I don't think influence equals biting, but...
Sep 01st 2017
5
I thought Donuts was done by Madlib when I first heard it
Sep 01st 2017
6
facts
Sep 01st 2017
11
everyone biting Marley
Sep 01st 2017
7
True. That's actually how I look at when ppl
Sep 05th 2017
26
The question is where do you draw the line between biting and influence
Sep 01st 2017
8
facts
Sep 01st 2017
12
Aaannnnnd that's a wrap
Sep 02nd 2017
13
Truth.
Sep 05th 2017
30
And FYI, Madlib bit Pete just as hard as Dilla did
Sep 01st 2017
9
think so? interesting
Sep 03rd 2017
14
Lib is a Pete disciple too
Sep 03rd 2017
15
And that's why Pete is the best
Sep 03rd 2017
16
he's #1 in my book when it comes to that
Sep 04th 2017
17
I will never criticize someone having Pete as GOAT
Sep 05th 2017
24
      Technical yes, but they'll never have the FEEL Pete had.
Sep 05th 2017
27
           Like I said, it boils down to preference
Sep 05th 2017
32
As much credit as Pete gets, it's still not enough really
Sep 05th 2017
28
He's even admitted as such
Sep 05th 2017
23
      holy shit
Sep 07th 2017
36
RE: And FYI, Madlib bit Pete just as hard as Dilla did
Sep 11th 2017
38
      i remember thinking those j-88 remixes being kinda Pete Rocky-y too
Sep 11th 2017
39
C'mon dawg. We settled this YEARS ago and you were in the post lol
Sep 05th 2017
18
refresh my memory. i'm old now
Sep 05th 2017
19
      lmao. well it's a fact. Ppl who'd been listening to both for years
Sep 05th 2017
25
jay was explicitly trying to do madlib, at least in part
Sep 05th 2017
20
Back then, we called it "calling them out".
Sep 05th 2017
29
      there's that, but I'm also just trying to clarify that
Sep 05th 2017
31
i JUST heard these NEW dilla beat tapes
Sep 05th 2017
21
RE: well played sir. l like it
Sep 18th 2017
48
in all seriousness tho...
Sep 05th 2017
22
Beats Rhymes & Life/LabcabinCalifornia dont sound like Pete Rock
Sep 06th 2017
33
what's yourr point?
Sep 06th 2017
34
      Dilla had 17 different styles, none were biting to me
Sep 07th 2017
35
           come on man he and his mom both said it
Sep 07th 2017
37
Anyone who doesn't consider Madlib and Dilla equals...
Sep 14th 2017
40
I think it's pretty clear why people like Dilla better though
Sep 14th 2017
42
      No doubt.
Sep 15th 2017
44
      madlib did erykah badu's the healer tho
Sep 17th 2017
46
           But he isn't credited to an entire sound like Dilla
Sep 17th 2017
47
                ...but it's important to recognize
Sep 20th 2017
49
RE: if madlib was doin' donut style beats BEFORE dilla,
Sep 14th 2017
41
i saw this
Sep 15th 2017
43
Spinna 1000% on point, as always
Sep 15th 2017
45

Garhart Poppwell
Member since Nov 28th 2008
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Fri Sep-01-17 12:16 PM

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1. "OF FUCK HERE WE GO"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

__________________________________________
CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
------------------------------------
Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

  

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fluicide
Member since Aug 07th 2013
718 posts
Fri Sep-01-17 01:40 PM

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2. "Donuts always sounded like Madlib to me. No dis."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Except Lightworks.

  

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hammam
Member since Nov 03rd 2011
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Fri Sep-01-17 06:55 PM

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10. "facts"
In response to Reply # 2


          

  

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A Love Supreme
Member since Nov 25th 2003
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Fri Sep-01-17 01:44 PM

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3. "LOL. Bblock always tryna start something."
In response to Reply # 0


          

  

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Anonymous
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4. "Midnight Marauders"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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stylez dainty
Member since Nov 22nd 2004
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Fri Sep-01-17 02:13 PM

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5. "I don't think influence equals biting, but..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I do think it's weird that Dilla is seen as the father of the whole beat scene, when to my ears I feel like Madlib is the true catalyst for all that.

But both of them seemed to adopt things from each other. Madlib adopted more Dilla like percussion with off kilter claps, instead of the boom bap drums you hear in the Lootpack stuff. And I think Dilla was inspired by Madlib to go further left field and embrace the weird.

----
I check for: Serengeti, Zeroh, Open Mike Eagle, Jeremiah Jae, Moka Only.

  

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cbk
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6. "I thought Donuts was done by Madlib when I first heard it"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Like, someone at Stones Throw made a mistake on this advance. Or this download was mislabeled.

Since 03 I associated that loopy/Dave Cooley compressed sound with only Madlib: Jaylib, Madvillian, Quasimoto 2, etc.

And especially on Jaylib--their beat styles are so contrasted on that one.

The "Motown/beat CD 3" didn't have that sound, so I knew that wasn't 'lib.

But Donuts to me sounded like Madlib but with more precise chops. I just figured he spent more chopping samples on his newer stuff.


PRINCE beat tape https://chrisp.bandcamp.com/album/17th-day

D'ANGELO beat tape https://chrisp.bandcamp.com/album/smack-your-ass-pull-your-hair

INVISIBLE
http://chrisp.bandcamp.com/album/invisible

冥々
http://chrisp.bandcamp.com/album/--2

  

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hammam
Member since Nov 03rd 2011
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Fri Sep-01-17 06:57 PM

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11. "facts "
In response to Reply # 6


          

  

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My_SP1200_Broken_Again
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7. "everyone biting Marley"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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SP1200
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26. "True. That's actually how I look at when ppl "
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

bit Premo and Dilla. They were new Marley's of their time. Set a
heavily impactful blueprint.

http://i54.tinypic.com/2j51hj4.jpg

  

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PCProductions
Member since Oct 31st 2009
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Fri Sep-01-17 05:32 PM

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8. "The question is where do you draw the line between biting and influence"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Because even as early as 2003 Dilla was gravitating towards Madlib's approach to making beats: raw, unfiltered soul and prog rock. Donuts was simply Dilla at his most Madlib, and Dilla never kept it secret that Madlib was the only producer he feared.

The thing is that when Dilla was doing Madlib, he still had his unique touch that separated him artistically. Although many say that Madlib was equally influenced by Dilla, I think that's a huge stretch. Madlib certainly employed certain Dilla-like drum arrangements at times, but it was really Madlib who led the charge between the two as far as where they converged artistically. They, like Pete and Premier, were the two influencers of their day and are both to be seen as equals in the pantheon of beatmaking.

  

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hammam
Member since Nov 03rd 2011
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12. "facts"
In response to Reply # 8


          

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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13. "Aaannnnnd that's a wrap"
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

  

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SP1200
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30. "Truth."
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

>Because even as early as 2003 Dilla was gravitating towards
>Madlib's approach to making beats: raw, unfiltered soul and
>prog rock. Donuts was simply Dilla at his most Madlib, and
>Dilla never kept it secret that Madlib was the only producer
>he feared.
>
>The thing is that when Dilla was doing Madlib, he still had
>his unique touch that separated him artistically. Although
>many say that Madlib was equally influenced by Dilla, I think
>that's a huge stretch. Madlib certainly employed certain
>Dilla-like drum arrangements at times, but it was really
>Madlib who led the charge between the two as far as where they
>converged artistically. They, like Pete and Premier, were the
>two influencers of their day and are both to be seen as equals
>in the pantheon of beatmaking.

http://i54.tinypic.com/2j51hj4.jpg

  

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PCProductions
Member since Oct 31st 2009
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Fri Sep-01-17 05:36 PM

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9. "And FYI, Madlib bit Pete just as hard as Dilla did"
In response to Reply # 0


          

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MEeI7hrPPM

... basically all of Madlib Medicine Show #5: The History of the Loop Digga sounds like Pete Rock.

  

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Small Pro
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14. "think so? interesting"
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

like, i've never thought that even once

--------------------------------------
https://careercrooks.bandcamp.com/album/good-luck-with-that

  

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Garhart Poppwell
Member since Nov 28th 2008
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15. "Lib is a Pete disciple too"
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

everybody from that era bit Pete, including R&B and jazz guys.

__________________________________________
CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
------------------------------------
Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

  

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Anonymous
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16. "And that's why Pete is the best"
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

Yes, you can make a case that Dre and Primo and even potentially RZA are greater producers due to their output.

But Pete is just technically better than all of them.

  

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Garhart Poppwell
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17. "he's #1 in my book when it comes to that"
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

he shouldn't have been able to do work as expressive as he did with an SP-1200. Lots of guys have great beats with it, but nobody got nearly as much a visceral musical response with it.

__________________________________________
CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
------------------------------------
Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

  

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PCProductions
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24. "I will never criticize someone having Pete as GOAT"
In response to Reply # 16


          

But Madlib and Dilla are every bit the technical wizards that Pete Rock was. I think it boils down to preference at that level. My mount rushmore is Pete, Premier, Dilla and Madlib as far as pure beatmaking goes.

  

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SP1200
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27. "Technical yes, but they'll never have the FEEL Pete had."
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

And why he's the GOAT to me.

http://i54.tinypic.com/2j51hj4.jpg

  

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PCProductions
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32. "Like I said, it boils down to preference"
In response to Reply # 27


          

And even my own preference changes in different periods of my life. All four were masters whom I feel were every bit each other's equal with their own artistic integrity.

  

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SP1200
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28. "As much credit as Pete gets, it's still not enough really"
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

to the extent of his impact.

http://i54.tinypic.com/2j51hj4.jpg

  

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PCProductions
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23. "He's even admitted as such"
In response to Reply # 14


          

>>> Let’s start at the beginning; what’s the deal with that Lootpack Toyota video?

My father hooked that up. That’s embarrassing (laughs). That’s when I was trying to be like Pete Rock on the beats. My pops hooked that up and it was shown locally, everybody was laughing and shit.


http://www.bonafidemag.com/cover-story-madlib-interview/

  

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Small Pro
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36. "holy shit"
In response to Reply # 23


  

          

--------------------------------------
https://careercrooks.bandcamp.com/album/good-luck-with-that

  

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Small Pro
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38. "RE: And FYI, Madlib bit Pete just as hard as Dilla did"
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

>... basically all of Madlib Medicine Show #5: The History of
>the Loop Digga sounds like Pete Rock.

listened to this on friday, you're right...dont know why i never made this connection, even "the unseen" is pete rocky at times

--------------------------------------
https://careercrooks.bandcamp.com/album/good-luck-with-that

  

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cbk
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39. "i remember thinking those j-88 remixes being kinda Pete Rocky-y too"
In response to Reply # 38


          

Haven't listened to that in a while tho.


PRINCE beat tape https://chrisp.bandcamp.com/album/17th-day

D'ANGELO beat tape https://chrisp.bandcamp.com/album/smack-your-ass-pull-your-hair

INVISIBLE
http://chrisp.bandcamp.com/album/invisible

冥々
http://chrisp.bandcamp.com/album/--2

  

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SP1200
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18. "C'mon dawg. We settled this YEARS ago and you were in the post lol"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://i54.tinypic.com/2j51hj4.jpg

  

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Bblock
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19. "refresh my memory. i'm old now"
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

life always offers you a 2nd chance...it's called tomorrow. use it wisely

  

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SP1200
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25. "lmao. well it's a fact. Ppl who'd been listening to both for years"
In response to Reply # 19


  

          

knew immediately when they heard Donuts, that it was Dilla doing his
version of Madlib. Heavily influenced, yes. That was all covered in
that old post. That actually kinda turned me off from Donuts at first
tbh. Dilla was known for doing that at times tho. His version of Pete
Rock joints and hell even Rockwilder who was hot at the time with the
choppy stuff.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZCdK_o60R0 his biggest Pete tribute
beat imo.



http://i54.tinypic.com/2j51hj4.jpg

  

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dba_BAD
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20. "jay was explicitly trying to do madlib, at least in part"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

like, he said it, multiple times

__

fairweather

  

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SP1200
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29. "Back then, we called it "calling them out"."
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

Which I don't see anything wrong with, but then the Dilla disciples
tried to act like his style had no origins. And that was a problem.

Hell, even Pete did it around the peak Bumpy Knuckles era, calling out
Premier cause he was the most popular at that time. Oh y'all like all
the chopping/scratching and such? I can do that easy...

http://i54.tinypic.com/2j51hj4.jpg

  

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dba_BAD
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31. "there's that, but I'm also just trying to clarify that"
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

jay really was enamored with madlib's sound, and hoping to capture some of it in his own music

to the degree that he was working with his team to make his sound "more like madlib's," like that's the language he was using with his engineers, etc

it doesn't take anything away from dilla, who was similarly one of madlib's most important influences

in fact in that way the whole thing has a very sweet full circle theme to it

__

fairweather

  

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The3rdOne
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21. "i JUST heard these NEW dilla beat tapes"
In response to Reply # 0
Tue Sep-05-17 12:03 PM by The3rdOne

  

          

labeled Motown chops #3!!

I think it was modeled after donuts!

  

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Garhart Poppwell
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48. "RE: well played sir. l like it"
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

__________________________________________
CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
------------------------------------
Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

  

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The3rdOne
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22. "in all seriousness tho..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

it seemed like the bat signal was thrown out by madlib one he put out them white labels with him rhyming over Dilla beats and calling it "Jaylib" waay before they linked and put out official music together.
Things got a little tense once Dilla and his camp found out about it..

So even if it WAS the sensationalism that bblock is trying to portray, Dilla coming back YEARS later to freak a style Madlib has been doing was warranted....in a good 'kindred spirit' way.

  

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atruhead
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33. "Beats Rhymes & Life/LabcabinCalifornia dont sound like Pete Rock"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Just Blaze and Bink had similar styles on the same albums

  

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Garhart Poppwell
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34. "what's yourr point?"
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

no snark, I'm trying to understand what you're saying.

__________________________________________
CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
------------------------------------
Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

  

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atruhead
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35. "Dilla had 17 different styles, none were biting to me"
In response to Reply # 34


  

          

influence, sure
but old Kev Brown beats reminded me of Pete Rock if anyone
1-900-Hustler and You, Me, Him and Her (Bink) sound like what Just Blaze's style developed into after the Dynasty album

  

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Garhart Poppwell
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37. "come on man he and his mom both said it"
In response to Reply # 35


  

          

it's just a part of the process when you start out.

__________________________________________
CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
------------------------------------
Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

  

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BSharp
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Thu Sep-14-17 03:14 PM

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40. "Anyone who doesn't consider Madlib and Dilla equals..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

...needs to fall back.

They were always equals, musically. That's why they gravitated to one another, and that's why they had such great respect and admiration for one another. And also, that's why heads like me and more than a few people I know were so fucking excited when the Jaylib project was about to go down...

  

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Anonymous
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Thu Sep-14-17 09:47 PM

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42. "I think it's pretty clear why people like Dilla better though"
In response to Reply # 40


  

          

He is attached to some our favorite projects ever.

Outside of Madvillainy, Madlib is pretty low key and hasn't been attached to high profile projects like LWFC and Mama's Gun. Not to mention his influence on Voodoo.

  

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BSharp
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Fri Sep-15-17 01:18 AM

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44. "No doubt."
In response to Reply # 42


  

          

  

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Bblock
Member since Feb 20th 2012
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Sun Sep-17-17 11:20 PM

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46. "madlib did erykah badu's the healer tho"
In response to Reply # 42


  

          

and a couple other joints on that lp i believe

life always offers you a 2nd chance...it's called tomorrow. use it wisely

  

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Anonymous
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Sun Sep-17-17 11:51 PM

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47. "But he isn't credited to an entire sound like Dilla"
In response to Reply # 46


  

          

Come on Block. You've been here as long as me.

?uest and this site is a large part of Dilla's legacy.

Maybe he would be Madlib levels of underground if ?uest, D'Angelo and Q-Tip weren't singing his praises and basically crediting him with being the influence of the entire neo-soul movement.

  

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BSharp
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Wed Sep-20-17 09:57 AM

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49. "...but it's important to recognize"
In response to Reply # 47


  

          

...that Dilla had contemporaries. Is he the best of all time? Uh, maybe? He does have peers, and he does have the people who were at his level and who influenced him and who he influenced that were at his level. Madlib was prolific during the same period that Dilla was, and though the prestige wasn't quite the same at the time, the quality of the music always was, and continued to be through and through.

  

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Getyohandouttamypocket
Member since Oct 03rd 2010
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Thu Sep-14-17 08:42 PM

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41. "RE: if madlib was doin' donut style beats BEFORE dilla, "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Peep Spinna's thoughts on this topic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkkgzuRHPs4

  

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Ill Jux
Member since Jan 19th 2007
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Fri Sep-15-17 12:27 AM

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43. "i saw this"
In response to Reply # 41


  

          

i came to post this vid

______

in the memory of NYC upt JUX�

<--- don't front, you'd smash

  

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liveguy
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Fri Sep-15-17 11:45 AM

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45. "Spinna 1000% on point, as always"
In response to Reply # 41


  

          

We see through all that boo boo like it's ghost shit... (c) Quelle Chris

| www.soundcloud.com/liveguy |
| www.twitter.com/liveguy |
| www.instagram.com/theREALliveguy |
| XBOX ONE GT: theREALliveguy |

  

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