43. "You have a point regarding the black album" In response to Reply # 2
I probably like Vol. 1 more than the Black Album. I just put it there without thinking about it. I just knew I like Vol 3 more than 1 on a lyrical level throughout.
3. "Mine mirror yours except I have BP3 over Vol 1" In response to Reply # 0
Nas:
Illmatic It Was Written God's Son Street's Disciple Life Is Good
Jay Z: Reasonable Doubt The Blueprint The Black Album American Gangster The Blueprint 3
I never understood the disdain for BP3 personally. I admittedly had to trim four tracks from it that are, IMO, truly awful: On To The Next, Off That, Venus Vs Mars, and Hate.
But yeah otherwise my list is identical to the OP.
21. "I probably hold BP3 in much higher esteem than most" In response to Reply # 5
BP3 was a high water mark for his flow IMO
Vol 1 holds a very special place for me though. “Lucky Me” and “You Must Love Me” are like warm blankets. Play “Where I’m From” in your headphones while wearing a hoodie and you’ll feel damn near invincible.
Lyrically he’s much stronger than he is on BP3.
Plus nothing on Vol 1 has anything as awful as the four tracks I mentioned and that certainly hurts BP3 in a head to head.
So I can see putting this ahead of BP3.
The thing about BP3 for me is that he puts on a delivery clinic over what for him is a generally eclectic selection of beats. He didn’t repeat too many old formulas here while also staying relatively close to his classic lane while still feeling fresh and the overall effect felt like a serious reboot.
Certain cuts, like Reminder, I wound up enjoying in spite of themselves. The singer is awful and the beat is one of those joints that feels a little cheap and phoned in, yet the sum of those parts somehow worked. I like it almost as an epilogue to What More Can I Say thematically, though it can be argued that it’s just another showcase for his inferiority complex and the reliance on numbers in that song is a little annoying. For me that’s a great emotional foundation for art, particularly in hip hop.
All in all I just feel like BP3 is ultimately a meatier, if glossier, album than Vol 1.
Anyhow I’m sure you didn’t want a dissection of this album. I can’t really argue with the choice for Vol 1 over BP3, just explaining some of what makes BP3 pop for me on a higher level.
34. "Oh yeah...I hated Reminder too lol" In response to Reply # 21 Tue Mar-21-17 12:42 PM by Anonymous
I saw the album like I did T.I.'s Paper Trail and Lupe's Lasers.
It was a polished, clear attempt for commercial success that I thought was well done regardless if that was the sound Inwanted from those artists.
None of them were favorite albums of mine but for what they were and what they went for, I was content. Plus they were actually rapping over those glossed up beats.
If you're going all-out gloss and commercial appeal at least rap your ass off so I have something to work with lol.
46. "I actually like Reminder, it's just that I shouldn't" In response to Reply # 34
I made a post in GD the other day about low brow foods that people like and Reminder is a lot like that for me. Nothing about it should work and it fails in nearly every category of objective criteria for me.
Somehow I wound up enjoying the song in spite of a cheap sounding beat, an over reliance on sales to make his case and one of the few lazy moments in terms of his flow on the album.
It doesn't make a lick of sense to me. The drums bang in a decent system and I like to bump it on freeway. Not in public, mind you, because I don't want to actually be seen bumping Reminder on an album that contains DOA.
49. ""Young Forever" might be my pick for worst Jay song of all time" In response to Reply # 3 Tue Mar-21-17 03:46 PM by Oak27
>I never understood the disdain for BP3 personally. I >admittedly had to trim four tracks from it that are, IMO, >truly awful: On To The Next, Off That, Venus Vs Mars, and >Hate.
whereas aforementioned tracks like "On To The Next One", "Off That", "Hate" and "Reminder" I can enjoy for what they are.
54. "Shrug, I love Young Forever. Those other 4 are among his worst" In response to Reply # 49
IMO
I don't understand the disdain for YF at all but the consensus seems to side with you on that, as well as the other four I mentioned. I just don't get it.
94. "After playing it this weekend " In response to Reply # 10
I forgot how terrible disc 2 is. Damn, disc 2 just should've never happened. Only 4 cuts I rock with on there. Disc 1 is strong as hell though so I'm keeping SD in my top 5.
****************************************** Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks
High Society Member since Oct 13th 2003 7375 posts
Mon Mar-20-17 08:24 PM
11. "Nas rankings are kind of difficult imo." In response to Reply # 0
Jigga:
1. Reasonable Doubt - take off Ain' No
2. In My Lifetime Vol. 1 - take off Girls Like, Sunshine, Faceoff, MAYBE Who You Wit II (though his verses are FIRE! beat is kinda doodoo...
Have tracklist look something like: 1. Intro 2. City is Mine 3. Imaginary Player 4. Streets is Watching 5. Friend or Foe 98 6. Lucky Me 7. Real Ns 8. Rap Game / Crack Game 9. Where I'm From 10. You Must Love Me
Ten tracks works, look at Illmatic (9 really)
You've got maybe his best album ever. 3 Primo beats, 4 Hitmen beats including Buckwild assist on Lucky Me. And maybe a *cough* Pharrell beat: (City Is Mine w/ Teddy Riley and Chad)
I absolutely love Vol. 1 minus those 3 or 4 songs I've removed via ITunes.
3. The Blueprint 4. American Gangster 5. The Black Album
Nasty Nas 1. Illmatic 2. Life is Good (HONEST!) 3. IWW 4. I AM 5. Stillmatic is what I'm going with... but I need to revisit God's Son
I LOVE NAS... Nas may have more 9 and 10 out of 10 verses than anybody in Hip Hop. But DAMN!! if his solo albums aren't a REAL MESS.
I need a Nas and Primo album before Nas hangs it up. Or Nas should run back an album with just the producers from Illmatic. 10 songs. In and out. Not Illmatic 2.... just revisit those producers.
Or do yall think that's a wack idea and people would call it Illmatic 2?
13. "My Vol 1 track list..." In response to Reply # 11
1 A Million and One Questions/Rhyme No More 2 City Is Mine 3 Rap Game/Crack Game 4 Where I'm From 5 Streets Is Watching 6 Friend Or Foe '98 7 Lucky Me 8 Who You Wit II 9 Imaginary Players 10 Face Off 11 Real N*s 12 Wishing On A Star 13 In My Lifetime (Remix) 14 You Must Love Me
65. "no doubt...Stillmatic should look like this..." In response to Reply # 64
1 Stillmatic 2 Got Ur Self A Gun 3 The Flyest 4 My Way 5 You're Da Man 6 Rewind 7 One Mic 8 No Idea's Original 9 Purple 10 My Country 11 Nothing Lasts Forever 12 Black Zombies 13 Second Childhood 14 What Goes Around 15 Ether 16 Doo Rags
12. "RE: List your 5 favorite Nas and Jay Z albums" In response to Reply # 0
Nas 1 Illmatic 2 It Was Written 3 The Lost Tapes 4 Distant Relatives 5 Life Is Good (Add Stillmatic and God's Son if The Lost Tapes and Distant Relatives don't count)
Jay-Z 1 Reasonable Doubt 2 In My Lifetime Vol 1 3 The Blueprint 4 American Gangster 5 The Black Album
23. "Fam I LOVE I Am. I put it in personal classic status though " In response to Reply # 14
I don’t really begrudge those who aren’t big fans of it. Tracks like Ghetto Prisoners are a little too generic IMO. I enjoy I could never argue it as a great song. You Won’t See Me Tonight should have been an Aaliyah solo and I might have really enjoyed it, or a Tim & Magoo joint… but that’s not really a Nas cut.
I Want To Talk To You is such a real sentiment but it’s hokey as hell. They took a decent atmospheric sample (I think it’s a sample) that would have fit perfectly with some of the Lost Tapes material that was ultimately cut and threw a skittish, stuttering drum beat on it when it would have been far better as a simple boom bap joint. *I* like Big Things but it’s not exactly what anyone wants from Nasir Jones. Shit it’s not what *I* want from him.
There are just too many cuts like that on I Am to take issue with people not putting it in their top five. The high points are exceptional- Nas Is Like and NY State Of Mind Pt 2. We Will Survive is nice. Small World might be the best Nas/Timbo joint ever, but that’s not saying much. Those moments are just too far and few between.
Had this included the Lost Tapes tracks that got cut in place of those with some of the more cliché’ late 90’s production I Am might be viewed in a different light entirely
24. "I've always been curious about why people don't like it." In response to Reply # 22
>i may put something else instead of HHID, but i dig that >album too.
Don't know that I've ever asked or heard an answer that I deemed reasonable (haha).
But seriously - why the hate for it ? Was it the gimmicky title and concept ? I don't really know what else it could be. It's not particularly glossy or poppy, though it's not QUITE as gritty as some of his other better projects. Maybe it was because he worked with Will.i.am ? I dunno. I liked that track anyway, even though he used the same sample TWO YEARS PRIOR.
25. "Mainly the production " In response to Reply # 24
Nas always brings it lyrically. It's the production that makes or breaks his albums to me and I just didn't vibe with most of the production on HHID. And one of my favorite joints on there most people hate lol.
****************************************** Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks
I grooved with the production. I didn't find it super glossy or poppy like I said but I guess I can understand if someone saw it that way. Not a perfect album by any means but I really like a lot of it.
>I grooved with the production. I didn't find it super glossy >or poppy like I said but I guess I can understand if someone >saw it that way. Not a perfect album by any means but I really >like a lot of it. > >You can't be referring to "Who Killed It?" ?!? Ha
You know it lol
****************************************** Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks
27. "It's a pretty bad album with three really good cuts." In response to Reply # 24
Let’s start with Black Republican Let's start with Black Republicans.
We had a historical moment with Jay and Nas together over a godawful beat that sounds like it was someone’s first beat after learning his sampler/sequencer of choice.
Generic sample, generic drums, generic and predictable topic that didn’t really say much. It's got a squishy snare sound for crying out loud. It's an extremely generic production choice for what should have been a monumental moment.
Who Killed It is polarizing. I hate it personally. Another generic track with that corny voice that makes it hard to appreciate as a hip hop song. People argue that the voice is part of the theme, an artistic choice or whatever. It sounds horrid. That beat is just plain not good. Some people are passionate as hell about this one though and it baffles me. It just sounds awful at every turn to me.
Not Going Back? Yeesh. It’s cool. It does have a Lost Tapes vibe but it just feels generic. Ditto Hold Down The Block, which utilized an awful organ sound, shitty drum sounds, and a generic melody/chord progression that screams “sketch at 2 am” that should never see the light of day. Ditto You Can’t Kill Me.
HHID for me is HHID, Let There Be Light, Can’t Forget About You and that’s it. It’s full of generic and forgettable production choices and is precisely the reason why people hear these Rawce albums and wish Nas had his ear for beats.
28. "Yea I can't argue that." In response to Reply # 27 Tue Mar-21-17 11:11 AM by Brew
I guess the production is sorta lacking in the "innovation" department but with that said, I'd argue that HHID is a lot more than just the tracks you named. I think it succeeds in spite of the generic production (a description which I don't fully disagree with, though I guess I just enjoy a lot of the tracks despite the production more than you and others).
Money Over Bullshit Carry on Tradition Hip Hop is Dead Still Dreaming Let There be Light Play on Playa Can't Forget About You
I also like You Can't Kill Me, and (despite your accurate knocks on it) Black Republicans. Mostly because of the nostalgia of the moment though I agree it was underwhelming considering the expectations.
36. "I like that shit too..." In response to Reply # 32 Tue Mar-21-17 12:51 PM by Anonymous
The thing I like most about Black Republicans and Success is that both MCs stayed in their lane. Jay did his shit talk flow and Nas did his introspective storytelling shit and it worked for me.
>The thing I like most about Black Republicans and Success is >that both MCs stayed in their lane. Jay did his shit talk flow >and Nas did his introspective storytelling shit and it worked >for me.
37. "Oh me too, all I meant was that I can't argue ..." In response to Reply # 32 Tue Mar-21-17 12:59 PM by Brew
... his point about the production being somewhat generic.
I honestly think that they ultimately decided they didn't want to come off like they were too caught up in the moment, and trying too hard as a result. And I actually appreciated that approach. In other words I almost feel like they didn't want to enlist like, Primo to do the beat, and come up with some over the top attempt at a concept, and overdo it to the point that we'd all be saying they overthought the whole thing. So they kinda went the opposite direction and treated it like any other song with any other artist. Haha. Which, again, I'd prefer over the "try too hard" method.
But - to be sure, Black Republican stayed in heavy, heavy rotation for a long time after it came out. I think it served its purpose.
40. "I think they should've went for a Primo joint" In response to Reply # 37 Tue Mar-21-17 01:07 PM by Anonymous
I could be wrong but I would've let the moment inspire them naturally through competition.
I would've had Puff call up Primo and say "Nas. Jay. Collabo. Send me your best shit in two weeks." And then just hang up the phone.
Primo would've got his ass in the lab and made some killer shit.
Then I would've given it to Jay and Nas and they would've both internalized that shit like, "ok I gotta come strong on this shit" and then let them write.
Fly that shit back to Primo for the scratched hook and your good.
And it didn't have to be Primo. It could've Just Blaze or someone like that but I would've let competition just happen silently like that.
And y'all talk shit about me, but if I'm honest, I would've gave Primo the phone call and then ship the beat to AZ and let him destroy that shit so Nas and Jay knew they couldn't come weak. LOL
41. "Haha I mean it probably could've/would've worked just fine." In response to Reply # 40
God knows I'd love to hear the three of them on a track.
Who did do that beat anyway ? The more I think about it the more strange it is that they didn't enlist one of their many common producers to hook them up. Primo/NoID/Kanye/whoever. Someone who was comfortable with both of them. Kinda makes no sense, despite the fact that I was fine with the end result.
Thankfully they *did* enlist NoID for the follow-up ("Success") which IMO is the better song, though I dig both quite a bit.
31. "Oh you are the worst. Haha." In response to Reply # 30
Also, re: Stillmatic vs. HHID (which would be the only potential switch on my Nas list), I chose HHID because I enjoy the generic production of HHID more than I do the dated production on Stillmatic. Stillmatic is great and has some all-time Nas moments, but listening to that album you're very much in 2001. No way that album could be released today.
42. "RE: List your 5 favorite Nas and Jay Z albums" In response to Reply # 0
Nas: llmatic It Was Written God's Son (If we count Lost Tapes this gets swapped with Lost Tapes, Stillmatic is fighting for this spot too) Street's Disciple Life Is Good
Jay Z: Reasonable Doubt Vol. 3 The Blueprint The Black Album American Gangster
62. "With RD & Illmatic there's a detachment becuse of my age & exp." In response to Reply # 58
Vol. 1 was the first Jigga album I heard (I was 13)...and when I did I didn't know what RD was, I didn't hear it the first time until the first re-release. So while there's songs on there I love (22twos is a top-10 Hov song), I just don't FEEL it like I do the others. Plus in Detroit there weren't paying much Jay at all until the Blackstreet record.
63. "I want to get it but I don't." In response to Reply # 62
I understand it not being your favorite Jay album for the reason you stated but to miss its release by 1 year and have it drop all the way to 7 is a bit absurd in my opinion.
66. "together and separate" In response to Reply # 0
COMBINED 1. Nas - Illmatic: 9.86 2. Jay-Z - Reasonable Doubt: 9.47 3. Jay-Z - The Blueprint: 9.07 4. Nas - The Lost Tapes: 8.95 5. Nas - Life Is Good: 8.28
40. NASIR JONES 1. Illmatic: 9.86 2. The Lost Tapes: 8.95 3. Life Is Good: 8.28 4. God's Son: 7.89 5. It Was Written: 7.89
46. SHAWN CARTER 1. Reasonable Doubt: 9.47 2. The Blueprint: 9.07 (3. Watch the Throne: 8.31) 4. The Black Album: 8.04 5. American Gangster: 8.03 6. Vol. 2... Hard Knock Life: 7.36
illmatic it was written stillmatic the lost tapes life is good
reasonable doubt in my lifetime the blueprint the black album american gangster
duh.
___
it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes
Overall I liked it well enough. Some of the joints didn't work though, like Made You Look. That's a hard one to top or match, but the energy just wasn't there.
74. "I like Grey Album for what it is. Nastradoomus has some joints." In response to Reply # 70
I'll usually listen to those two volumes over I Am / Nastradamus and there isn't even any effort put into those other than beat matching Nas to DOOM's herbs.
78. "RE: List your 5 favorite Nas and Jay Z albums" In response to Reply # 0
was thinking of the comparison made by Anonymous in that other Nas post. Started thinking that its better to compare albums by years than stacking up debut to debut, etc.
Illmatic is best album by both, really hard to put any album up against it
It Was Written vs Reasonable Doubt - this is close and I might actually call it a tie, could see arguments for either as both are very good. RD probably stronger production, IWW I think lyrically is better.
I Am.. and Nastradmus vs The Vols - Jay's albums are overall better especially Vol 1.
Stillmatic vs Blueprint - Blueprint probably wins due to production altho I think Nas lyrically is better here
Streets Disciple vs Blueprint 2 - going out of order cuz double album vs double album makes more sense. SD is stronger overall
God's Son vs Black Album - Black Album is better, close tho imo
HHID vs Kingdom Come - HHID is better, both average
Untitled vs American Gangster - AG better, AG wins production and stuck to concept better
Life is Good vs Blueprint 3 - Life is Good is way better than either of Jay's last two albums so picked the better of those for comparison
86. "RE: I didn't even listen to Magna Carta" In response to Reply # 85
not even the song with Nas? lol I listened when it came out a couple times. Its not great, but I don't think its awful either. About the same as BP3 to me so if you think thats awful, it probably is to you as well.
88. "Didn't even remember there was a Nas track." In response to Reply # 86
Went to look at the tracklist just now to confirm. And seeing the tracklist reminded me that there is a song called "FuckWithMeYouKnowIGotIt" and what in the blue fucking fuck does that even mean
89. "That song is actually a straight banger" In response to Reply # 88
One of the few on the album. It's a Rick Ross song that Hov snatched for his album. Feels like it too.
There are some good messages on that album but man...it's not a good album. The song with Beyonce has some GREAT singing on it. Some of her best to me. Jay actually messes the song up. SMH.
90. "Yea I mean, I'm sure it's OK" In response to Reply # 89
>One of the few on the album. It's a Rick Ross song that Hov >snatched for his album. Feels like it too.
I was strictly referencing the weird ass, corny title.
>There are some good messages on that album but man...it's not >a good album. The song with Beyonce has some GREAT singing on >it. Some of her best to me. Jay actually messes the song up. >SMH.
Haha that's kinda been the way of things on every one of their collabs since "Crazy in Love". That was the last time Jay came on and actually added to the track (he actually dominated that one).
Since then it's been a dope Bey song followed by a miserable Jay verse. "Drunk in Love" being the worst example. "If I do say so myself..." ugh. Shut the fuck up dude.
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