Like if his next album is in the same vein as "Nas Album Done" then this dude hasn't had any fall off in skill since his first album which dropped literally decades ago.

That's amazing. He's not necessarily my favorite, but I got to recognize him as the GOAT though.

We in agreement right? Word. Next topic.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

What keeps him from being the GOAT?

******************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

Geto Boys, Poison Clan, UGK, Eightball & MJG, OutKast, Goodie Mob

mention an alternative if you disagree.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

He's a better lyricist...more consistent...and I never have to be super afraid of his production choices...

Nas made Illmatic...but as a whole catalog...it's not as strong as what Black Thought has done with The Roots...

Nas doesn't have a Questlove on his team that's anal about the sound of the album. He also doesn't have a Malik, Dice, PORN, Peedi, Truck North, etc to give him a break on the mic.

******************************************
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Geto Boys, Poison Clan, UGK, Eightball & MJG, OutKast, Goodie Mob

I'm not sure how people don't understand the difference in work load.

Nas also clearly writes more unique and creative songs.

it's been a 5 year gap since his last album...

As for workload...Black Thought has been the main MC since the inception of the group and he's the solo MC since Phrenology...

Nas' inability to pick beats is on him too...don't try to create a pass for some of his production choices...

Nm

Number of verse:

Thought on Rising Down, How I Got Over, Undun, & ATYSYC = 45 (give or take)

Nas on Life Is Good = 45 (give or take)

So you can say Thought is the main MC in the group since Phrenology but the last 4 albums prove his lack of output. He also hasn't been writing the hooks on the albums.

So it is completely wrong for anyone to argue Thought's output is ANYwhere near Nas'.

Nas admitted that he didn't even pick the songs that made Illmatic...

We all know that Nas' beat selections over the years have had issues...and I think that's important. It's well known...

I have Black Thought ahead of Nas...and he's not the only one either...

No offense but your responses make me believe you don't have it all upstairs bro.

Because you damn sure aren't following the discussion.

It's cool if you want to say that Nas has a bigger workload...

But when you talk about quality consistently for a longer period of time, Thought is in the lead...

When you talk as a live performer, Thought wins in a landslide...

When folks say Thought has ?uestlove, it's a cop out...because Nas could have ANY producer he wants...he chooses otherwise.

>It's cool if you want to say that Nas has a bigger
>workload...
>

It's not "cool", it's an undeniable fact.

>But when you talk about quality consistently for a longer
>period of time, Thought is in the lead...
>

How do you figure that when I just told you over the last 10 years Nas put in more "consistent quality" work on one album than Thought did on 4? On top of that, Nas released Distant Relatives in that time frame as well.

>When you talk as a live performer, Thought wins in a
>landslide...
>

No one is arguing who a better love performer is. Thought is the best at that. Nas has gotten much better though. And regardless of how dope Thought is, what do you think is a more live show, Thought performing Proceed or Nas performing Represent? So while Thought may be the better performer, the status of Nas' classics make up for any difference.

>When folks say Thought has ?uestlove, it's a cop out...because
>Nas could have ANY producer he wants...he chooses otherwise.
>

Nah bro. You're comparing apples and oranges. Thought is in a group which contains a great producer and great musicians. You can't compare Thought's ear for beats to anyone because he's never went outside the group and did it the way Nas has to. So you can knock Nas if you don't like his choices but you can't compare the two situations. Thought could go do his solo and pick wack beats. For all we know, that could be the reason it never came out.

>>It's cool if you want to say that Nas has a bigger
>>workload...
>>
>
>It's not "cool", it's an undeniable fact.

Ok...
>
>>But when you talk about quality consistently for a longer
>>period of time, Thought is in the lead...
>>
>
>How do you figure that when I just told you over the last 10
>years Nas put in more "consistent quality" work on one album
>than Thought did on 4? On top of that, Nas released Distant
>Relatives in that time frame as well.

Okay...you can roll with those two albums...but I rather the 4 Roots albums over those two Nas albums,,,

>>When you talk as a live performer, Thought wins in a
>>landslide...
>>
>
>No one is arguing who a better love performer is. Thought is
>the best at that. Nas has gotten much better though. And
>regardless of how dope Thought is, what do you think is a more
>live show, Thought performing Proceed or Nas performing
>Represent? So while Thought may be the better performer, the
>status of Nas' classics make up for any difference.

I disagree that it makes up a difference...I've seen Nas 4 times...and while his live act has gotten better...that delta isn't enough...Nas' live show isn't that good man...

>>When folks say Thought has ?uestlove, it's a cop
>out...because
>>Nas could have ANY producer he wants...he chooses otherwise.
>
>>
>
>Nah bro. You're comparing apples and oranges. Thought is in a
>group which contains a great producer and great musicians. You
>can't compare Thought's ear for beats to anyone because he's
>never went outside the group and did it the way Nas has to. So
>you can knock Nas if you don't like his choices but you can't
>compare the two situations. Thought could go do his solo and
>pick wack beats. For all we know, that could be the reason it
>never came out.

But he's Nas though...he can get any producer he wants...same goes to Thought...but that's his decision ...

But once again...you put the catalog of The Roots versus Nas...it's not that close in my opinion...even with Illmatic...it's not close man...Nas low points cannot be forgotten...it cannot...it will not...

It's not The Roots catalogue vs Nas catalogue.

And you can take those 4 albums over those 2 Nas albums. I won't. Just know with those Roots albums you're getting a single production team and MAD guest MCs along with Thought.

We are talking Nas vs Black Thought.

You're basically taking Terry Bradshaw over Aaron Rodgers because you feel Thought has more rings than Nas. But those rings that Thought has are a TEAM effort.

Nas is undeniably the greater MC. And this coming from someone who has had Thought as my favorite since Illadelph.

At some point you need to be objective man.

Just don't think Nas is better than Thought...

Thought isn't the only guy I got ahead of Nas...I have about 7 rappers ahead of him...

You make it sound like Black Thought has no say in The Roots process AT ALL...he gets production credit too on some material.

We can agree to disagree...

On their albums. Especially since signing to Def Jam. Thought carries nowhere near the load Nas does so it's not a fair comparison. He was barely on 50 percent of the last LP

******************************************
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Close, but gotta roll with Thought...

Integrity is the Cornerstone of Artistry...

Nas just covers more topics and is more creative with the songs he writes.

Plus Thought spent his career in a group setting. He was lead on most of the albums but it is a different work load than what Nas put in.

...but I would counter with the lack of quality production on a great deal of Nas projects has hurt the overall package/output. His ear for choosing beats is his kryptonite...

Integrity is the Cornerstone of Artistry...

to go with the criteria yall are setting.

but if yall did......

but Nas is my favorite MC, so he gets my vote

----------
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Honestly...

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They stopped selling records because hip hop used to change directions and move on a lot quicker, but the rapping was still there for a long time.

but they're mostly judged by their golden years output. there are a few rappers that are only a few years younger than them that found an audience as they continued to rap well. is anybody gonna come in here and put up Kristyles or The Seventh Seal against any of Nas last albums?


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He's my favorite and has been since the 90s.

But really, LL is the only one who came out in the 80s who had a long career in terms of selling records. Rakim and Kane and them were looked at as "old" when they were like 25 years old.

Things eventually changed to where cats like Nas, Snoop, Jay have had 20+ year runs.l of selling records.

but people still want to hear Nas. He's kept his sound current while staying true to himself. The other guys failed to do so which is why they fell off during the 90s. They just aren't making good music anymore.

******************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

Geto Boys, Poison Clan, UGK, Eightball & MJG, OutKast, Goodie Mob

Like Nas is the son of Rakim in my opinion. But it's the case where the son greatly surpassed the father.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

at this point

take your tims and yankee fitted off. your suburb doesn't require it

top 5 tho

--------------------------------------
https://smallprofessor.bandcamp.com

>top 5 tho

Who you got?

...but

jay
big
nas
rakim

pretty east coast biasy, but eh

--------------------------------------
https://smallprofessor.bandcamp.com

-------------------
I wanna go to where the martyrs went
the brown figures on the walls of my apart-a-ment...

https://memecrunch.com/meme/B0ITM/yeah-that-s-gonna-be-a-no-for-me-dog/image.jpg?w=400&c=1

"I wasn't sure if I was lost or running away again. . ."

http://austinato.bandcamp.com

https://www.discogs.com/lists/Favorites-of-2017/332378

preference for one person or another. Nas is in that pantheon and has been for quite some time. He's done more than enough to deserve it.

__________________________________________
CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
------------------------------------
Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

there is no GOAT. there's a select group of guys, then it comes down to preference.

dudes love arguing about this dumb shit over and over tho.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

but sure, Nas can be the greatest of all time in your worlds where he didnt have long runs of mediocre to trash output

Name me an artist that's been around 20+ years without bad albums. Don't name Jay either because he has a few of them.

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guarantee you my list will be longer

I'm a fan of Ross. I catch heat here for ridin' with him but he does not make better songs than Brad. He lacks the content to make better songs than Face. Now if you wanna say you dig the beats Ross raps to more, I ain't mad at that. The man's ear for beats can't be denied.

******************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

Geto Boys, Poison Clan, UGK, Eightball & MJG, OutKast, Goodie Mob

this is why I prefer listening to Noreaga over Ras Kass

but I also think Rick Ross is an above average emcee

You have to have some nuance to the shit man.

Scarface has well above average beats on top of everything else.

He's not Ras Kass and bringing him up in regards to Face is disrespectful.

>but I also think Rick Ross is an above average emcee

No doubt. He can rap. Just needs to branch out a bit on the subject matter.

******************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

Geto Boys, Poison Clan, UGK, Eightball & MJG, OutKast, Goodie Mob

that doesn't change his GOAT status.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

The original "Project Windows"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mERosfEgij0

"Where Y'all At", bonus track from HHID:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7oCGlwrex0

"What It Is" left off Untitled:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZt-b0_JzVw

all 3 of those are timeless...and there's plenty of other good songs between those 3 albums IMO

Bandcamp/IG/FB/Twitter: @hecticzeniths

Not dissin Nas, but two out of those three are why Thought edges him out for the top spot.....

Integrity is the Cornerstone of Artistry...

Nas' best 4 albums came out in 1994, 2001, 2002 (Lost Tapes), and 2012

Kendrick's best 4 albums to date came out 2010, 2011, 2012, and 2015

Jay may have a more popular track record but it's not better. Especially post The Black Album. AG is the only good post retirement album he got.

>
>Kendrick's best 4 albums to date came out 2010, 2011, 2012,
>and 2015

Kendrick is not Nas peer fam so yeah, his best albums have recently come out. Let's see what he does a decade plus into his career.

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Illmatic > Reasonable Doubt
It Was Written > Vol 1
I Am > Vol 2
Nastradamus = Vol 3
Stillmatic > Dynasty
Lost Tapes > Blueprint
Gods Son > BP2
Streets Disciple > The Black Album
Hip-Hop Is Dead > Kingdom Come
Untitled < American Gangster
Distant Relatives > Watch The Throne
Life Is Good > BP3

And then I'm taking back Jay's American Gangster win for releasing MCHG

I also ignored those Best of Both Worlds bullshit ass albums and Nas' impeccable "unreleased" material that we've all heard.

>Lost Tapes > Blueprint
>



"I wasn't sure if I was lost or running away again. . ."

http://austinato.bandcamp.com

https://www.discogs.com/lists/Favorites-of-2017/332378

It's not revisionist because I'm not claiming Lost Tapes was the bigger album.

But if we are really honest...

Lyrics - Nas
Concepts - Nas
Beats - Nas
Stories - Nas
Originality - Nas

Lost Tapes is an incredible album. People don't judge it because it's a compilation but it is an album made up of unreleased tracks and therefore is someone asks me to recommend a Nas album...that shit will come up because it should be listened to.

Lost Tapes also doesn't have the lows Blueprint has. No Jigga That N and noHola Hovito.

Not to mention Takeover, Izzo, and Girls are all gimmick pieces that get the skip button.

>It's not revisionist because I'm not claiming Lost Tapes was
>the bigger album.
>
>But if we are really honest...
>
>Lyrics - Nas
>Concepts - Nas
>Beats - Nas
>Stories - Nas
>Originality - Nas
>
>Lost Tapes is an incredible album. People don't judge it
>because it's a compilation but it is an album made up of
>unreleased tracks and therefore is someone asks me to
>recommend a Nas album...that shit will come up because it
>should be listened to.
>
>Lost Tapes also doesn't have the lows Blueprint has. No Jigga
>That N and noHola Hovito.
>
>Not to mention Takeover, Izzo, and Girls are all gimmick
>pieces that get the skip button.

I agree with most of this but Takeover is a gimmick? It's just a dope ass song to me.

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Takeover and Ether aren't gimmicks but they are both locked in a time capsule and I don't always want to re-listen to those battle tracks.

Battle tracks are like that for the most part.

we talking bout trolling? hold up, pardon my back

>Illmatic > Reasonable Doubt

8 timeless songs (minus One Time For Your Mind) vs. 12 timeless songs (Cashmere Thoughts and I was kind enough to extend you Coming Of Age)

>It Was Written > Vol 1

Fettuccine Capone and bad Foxy Math vs. Sunshine and I Know What Girls Like. it can go either way

>I Am > Vol 2

here's where you're lying

>Nastradamus = Vol 3

here's where you're really lying

>Stillmatic > Dynasty

look at how bad you're reaching. you compared a great 2001 comeback to a great 2000 Jay Z Rocafella compilation album

>Lost Tapes > Blueprint

You compared great Nas outtakes to one of the greatest albums ever. Dont be ridiculous (c) Balki Bartokomis


>Gods Son > BP2

Oh behave. Hovi Baby alone > everything on God's song

>Streets Disciple > The Black Album

disgusting. you compared a double album with 1/2 of a good disc to an album with Lucifer and Allure


>Hip-Hop Is Dead > Kingdom Come

both subpar, both have a few songs I like

>Untitled < American Gangster

finally you're honest

>Distant Relatives > Watch The Throne

I dont love Watch The Throne but I found Distant Relatives trash

>Life Is Good > BP3

that isnt saying much, it was Nas' first great album in a decade and I dont hate Blueprint 3

>we talking bout trolling? hold up, pardon my back
>
>>Illmatic > Reasonable Doubt
>
>8 timeless songs (minus One Time For Your Mind) vs. 12
>timeless songs (Cashmere Thoughts and I was kind enough to
>extend you Coming Of Age)
>

Ok buddy...let me know when you're serious

>>It Was Written > Vol 1
>
>Fettuccine Capone and bad Foxy Math vs. Sunshine and I Know
>What Girls Like. it can go either way
>

It Was Written is also better than every Jay album.

>>I Am > Vol 2
>
>here's where you're lying
>

Nah Vol 2 is a steaming pile of worthless shit while I Am has NY State of Mind PT 2, Small World, Nas Is Like, and Undying Love. The rest ain't bad as y'all claim either.

>>Nastradamus = Vol 3
>
>here's where you're really lying
>

Nothing on Vol 3 comes close to Life We Chose or Project Windows and Jay has zero verses as good as Last Words. You're lucky I gave you a tie.

>>Stillmatic > Dynasty
>
>look at how bad you're reaching. you compared a great 2001
>comeback to a great 2000 Jay Z Rocafella compilation album
>

How is this reaching? I'm going by order of release. And you can try to pass it off as a Roc album all you want. That shit is a Jay album.

>>Lost Tapes > Blueprint
>
>You compared great Nas outtakes to one of the greatest albums
>ever. Dont be ridiculous (c) Balki Bartokomis
>

That tells you how great Nas is. His outtakes are better than Jay's most prized album.

>>Gods Son > BP2
>
>Oh behave. Hovi Baby alone > everything on God's song
>

You're quoting Hov...that how I know you're a fucking loser in real life. Made You Look alone is better than Hovi Baby.

>>Streets Disciple > The Black Album
>
>disgusting. you compared a double album with 1/2 of a good
>disc to an album with Lucifer and Allure
>
>

Thief's Theme and Street's Disciple are better than those two joints...

>>Hip-Hop Is Dead > Kingdom Come
>
>both subpar, both have a few songs I like
>

Ok...

>>Untitled < American Gangster
>
>finally you're honest
>

I'm being honest this entire post brah.

>>Distant Relatives > Watch The Throne
>
>I dont love Watch The Throne but I found Distant Relatives
>trash
>

If you don't like Distant Relatives than it paints a clear picture of how wack your musical taste is as you most likely only listen to whatever is on the radio.

>>Life Is Good > BP3
>
>that isnt saying much, it was Nas' first great album in a
>decade and I dont hate Blueprint 3
>

Nah...that's saying Nas is still doing it far better than Jay right now. Where's The Love alone shits on any lyrical outing Jay has had in the last decade.

you also said Made You Look > Hovi Baby

I cant take your opinions serious, you're too biased

Love Nas, but I am willing to go track for track Nas vs Thought on the Mic...let me know....

Integrity is the Cornerstone of Artistry...

And he has put in less work.

You claim Nastradamus is a reason you put Thought over Nas but Nas does more work on that album than Thought does on ATYSYC.

I stand by my statement, when your ready to go track vs track, I'm down...both are greats, I just personally think Thought is that dude...

Integrity is the Cornerstone of Artistry...

I just want to know your thought in the work load.

Nas is a solo artist and Thought shares a lot of mic time.

Do you simply not care about the difference?

Also...how do you justify Thought not varying his content as much as Nas?

I don't really feel like going song for song because we're just not going to agree...and Thought has always been a favorite of mine.

I give huge credit when talking about this subject to consistency. Roots LP after Roots LP, duke brings it, never coming weak. I would say that the fact that Thought never released a solo simply speaks to his intelligence and understanding that his crew brings some of the coldest soundscapes to rhyme over. As far as varying his content, I think he has grown a great deal over his career. I was critical of that aspect of his game, but after those middle releases by the crew, I saw the growth, subject matter he maybe lacked earlier. The mic time, I get your point. Brother just comes so strong, and consistent, and live he kills ish, which just is bigger than anyone else on the Roots projects. Just Thought the track for track idea would be an interesting post, filled with A LOT of great music...PEacE!

Integrity is the Cornerstone of Artistry...

And while I don't feel like going back and forth now...I'll add this...

One Love
Street Dreams
I Gave You Power
Shootouts
If I Ruled The World
NY State of Mind Pt 2
Small World
Nas Is Like
Undying Love
Life We Chose
Project Windows
Last Words
Ether (battle tested)
Rewind
One Mic
Second Childhood
What Goes Around
Doo Rags
Drunk By Myself
Fetus
Get Down
Book Of Rhymes
Heaven
Street's Disciple
War
Where Are They Now
Who Killed It?
Testify
Fried Chicken
Project Roach
Y'all My N
Daughters
Stay
Black Bond
Where's The Love

Now that's off the top of my head...and let me be clear, this is not meant to be a list of Nas' best songs but these are songs that in my opinion set him apart from Thought. His approach to songwriting is just more unique where as Thought is very straight forward. Yes, he has covered more topics recently but Thought is not doing shit like Rewind or Daughters or Fried Chicken...he just doesn't go about creating topics like that and that's where Nas is head and shoulders above *his* peers. Obviously there are other MCs that are as creative but in that GOAT class, he sets himself apart with shit like I listed.

Thought my dude but nah. Can't wait to see spidey's list though

******************************************
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Bro...I was typing all my ish out, took so long it timed me out, lost it all after hitting post....mother fuck!

Integrity is the Cornerstone of Artistry...

Lol

I ain't going out like that....left hook counter shot ala Mayweather, but never duckin the best...

Proceed
Silent Treatment
Super Lyrical-off the Pun joint...
What They Do
You Got Me
Rapid Eye Movement-with Monch
Respond/React
Push Up Ya Lighter
Concerto of the Desparado
Zen Approach-with DJ Krush
Star
Clones
The Hypnotic
Making a Murderer
Doin It Again
The Next Movement
Work
The Imperial
100% Dundee
Thought @ Work
75 Bars
Web-still blows me away after hearing it...
BOOM-incredible
Section
No Alibi
Break You Off
Water
Quills
Rock You
Complexity
Don't Say Nuthin
Guns Are Drawn
Why(What's Going On?)
Game Theory
Clock with No Hands
I will Not Apologize
Game Theory
Dear God 2.0
How I Got Over
Kool On
Sleep
The Day

Integrity is the Cornerstone of Artistry...