I know a few people here hold that opinion.

I'm open to hearing the reasoning.

And if you think it's blasphemous...feel free to chime in.

My personal taste has Illmatic as the best hip-hop album of all time, in front of Eric B. and Rakim's Paid in Full. I don't think It Was Written would be in my top 30 or 40. I'd be interested in hearing the arguments for IWW > Ill, myself.

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My idea of fun at 34 is significantly different from my idea of fun at 24.

"Riggs, I'm getting too old for this shit." - Sgt. Murtaugh

Nah, but it's greatness none the less....super slick production, and Nas is spitting, but Ilmatic is just llmatic....Illmatic is the jump off of all that Nas absorbed as a youth, and he channeled it into arguably the best Hip Hop LP of all time with unfucwitable production...

Integrity is the Cornerstone of Artistry...

ny state of mind/the world is yours/one love as a maxi single is better than IWW

trackmasters just dont compare to the all time greats

.

http://howardlloyd.bandcamp.com

Because the beats aren't half the quality of Illmatic's.

~
~
~
~
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Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

He was a much better rapper on this album. Didn't mind the production either. If you left some of those beats the same and put Premier's or RZA's name on them instead of Trackmasters, more people would dig them.

******************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

Geto Boys, Poison Clan, UGK, Eightball & MJG, OutKast, Goodie Mob

>If you left some of those beats the same
>and put Premier's or RZA's name on them instead of
>Trackmasters, more people would dig them.

Those beats were so shiny. There's no way anyone would have confused them, let alone believed it.


"I wasn't sure if I was lost or running away again. . ."

http://austinato.bandcamp.com

http://www.discogs.com/lists/Favorites-of-2016/269401

People who say that are simply reiterating what they've read in bullshit reviews.

Please tell me what's shiny about...
The Message
I Gave You Power
Take It In Blood
Silent Murder
Affirmative Action
The Set-Up
Suspect
Shootouts
Live N Rap

So it wasn't what I'd read that gave me such a feeling of crushing disappointment upon hearing it..

Whether or not the songs are 'shiny' they definitely don't sound like the album before. I'd take the production on The World Is Yours over any IWW track.

Lurk everyday.. Post once a month..

> I'd take the production on The
>World Is Yours over any IWW track.

But I think what people do a lot of is saying something completely sucks because it isn't as good as something before when that is a ridiculous way to view music.

It may not be the same or as good but that doesn't mean it's terrible.

I'd take the world is yours over any other beat on illmatic.

******************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

Geto Boys, Poison Clan, UGK, Eightball & MJG, OutKast, Goodie Mob

I bought the album the week it was released and have always felt like the beats were the weak link. Specifically because they were either really self-conscious attempts at recreating the "raw" sound of illmatic (which just turned out awkward, as the drums were way too clean-sounding) or they were very shiny (ex: 'The Message', 'Street Dreams', 'Watch Dem Niggas', 'Nas is Coming', 'Affirmative Action' and 'If I Ruled the World').

And, I know: it was a bigger budget album, Nas getting A+R'd into making a couple moves for wider appeal. I get that. I don't hold it against the album. It's a very good record. But I've always felt like it was a very glossy album.


"I wasn't sure if I was lost or running away again. . ."

http://austinato.bandcamp.com

http://www.discogs.com/lists/Favorites-of-2016/269401

Yes, some of those beats were "shinier" than Illmatic but they weren't Jay-Z Sunshine shiny. They weren't Hypnotize shiny.

I bought it the day it dropped as well so I'm not sure what that has to do with this discussion.

You named a few of the beats I left off my list as shiny but my main point was that the majority, tracks I listed, were dark and the crossover attempts were far from egregious.

IWW had two Havoc joints in the midst of Havoc's darkest production period with one of the songs slated for one of the darkest albums (Hell On Earth) of the time period.

I feel like people go a little far with the "it's not Illmatic" train of thought and end up exaggerating how commercial the album is for If I Ruled The World and Street Dreams.

and I love IWW, but Illmatic is essentially as close to perfect gets on every element of rap music. It's the perfect length, with the perfect storm of golden age NYC based producers and although there is an argument that Nas is marginally better lyrically on IWW, the production on Illmatic is way better than IWW and his lyrical performance on Illmatic is GOAT material anyway....

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https://93millionmilesabove.blogspot.com/
https://rateyourmusic.com/~Kosa12

...concept album.

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"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

I know you guys are used to Kendrick force feeding you the concept by making it easily noticeable but if you pay attention to the themes from song to song on IWW they all follow one main theme and storyline.

I swear...hip-hop fans need shit to be way too literal.

But yea no .. it's not a concept album.

>I know you guys are used to Kendrick force feeding you the
>concept by making it easily noticeable but if you pay
>attention to the themes from song to song on IWW they all
>follow one main theme and storyline.
>
>I swear...hip-hop fans need shit to be way too literal.

Didn't Nas LITERALLY give away the metaphor behind "I Gave You Power" instead of letting us figure it out on our own, on this very album ?

Your hero isn't perfect. It's OK. It's an excellent album. It's not a concept album.

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"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

2. I have stated that I hated the intro dialogue to IGYP on here before because it's giving away the concept.

3. It is a concept album.

4. No one cares what you think because you're a white buy from Boston that hangs out with other whites guys from Boston and most likely routinely drop the N bomb with each other.

>"1. I never said he was perfect"
>
>2. I have stated that I hated the intro dialogue to IGYP on here
>before because it's giving away the concept.

I applaud your bravery.


>3. It is a concept album.

It is most definitely not a concept album. You can say it however many times you like, but that doesn't make it true. The artist didn't intend to make a concept album which, by its very definition, would mean that it is not a concept album. Nas has done a million interviews about this album since he created it and never once did he describe it as a "concept" he was fleshing out. You're like a stoner college kid convinced that Pink Floyd made Dark Side of the Moon for the explicit purpose of syncing it up with The Wizard of Oz. You're free to see it in whichever light you want, but the artist didn't intend it that way, and it isn't true.


>4. No one cares what you think because you're a white buy from Boston that hangs out with other whites guys from Boston and most likely routinely drop the N bomb with each other.

There's two options at play here:

(a) you were trying to make a funny joke. It bombed.
(b) you were being serious. In which case you are a 9 year old child.

Do better. I mean, I know you can't actually do better, you don't have it in you. But keep trying, champ.

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"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

And I'm glad you know exactly what Nas was intending when creating the album.

Thanks for the insight.

Thanks for proving my points.

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"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

The evidence to date is on my side. You're still yet to provide any evidence to the contrary.

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"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

.

on the God's Son album:

Illmatic I was boss, It Was Written I flossed
One of the most creative LPs to ever hit stores

you could actually explain why you think it is in detail

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https://93millionmilesabove.blogspot.com/
https://rateyourmusic.com/~Kosa12

>you could actually explain why you think it is in detail

He's an imbecile.

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"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

Let me type it up for you when I get home.

Your boy Brew replied like a jackass so I returned the favor.

>Your boy Brew replied like a jackass so I returned the favor.

It's funny that you still can't grasp the fact that it *always* works the opposite way, no matter how many times we all point it out to you. Always.

It's like your brain works backwards.

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"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

It's sad how you can't even follow the conversation in this very thread and have no clue why I respond to you like a piece of shit.

I know there's history here, but there's also good discussion to be had. And is happening. So let's please all tone down the sniping.

Cool?

-----------------

www.albumism.com

Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

https://www.mixcloud.com/returntozero/

As stated above...ill reply to Kosa a little later

It Was Written is an album that finds Nas reaching new heights and dealing with the stress and issues that come with his new position. The story is primarily told from a street king (mafioso themes) perspective but can easily be seen as a metaphor for his spot in the rap game.

The intro finds Nas 'freeing himself' and taking control of his own life and destiny. As a start to the sophomore album he is basically saying that he doing it his way now and he's back to take over. AZ is again utilized in the intro and pops up two more times on the album as his 'partner in crime' so to speak.

The Message has Nas telling a story from his new spot as 'king' and how people are out to take him down. This is a common theme for many rappers at the time ie Mo Money Mo Problems and rappers claiming to have the crown and others trying to take it.

Street Dreams is Nas laying out what everyone is aiming for where he's from. He claims King on the first track and is now stating the ambitions of people coming up and he understand people are out to get what he has. The interlude leading into I Gave You Power documents two people killing someone and it can be assumed these two are in the streets chasing the dream that Nas is speaking of.

I Gave You Power Nas basically speaks from the gun's perspective of the senseless killings that occur as people try to reach the top. It works in the theme of the album that the person killed was someone on Nas' team which connects to The Set-Up/Suspect/Shootouts towards the end. He talks about how it's a never ending cycle and no matter how bad you wish the violence would stop, there is always goin to be someone out there to watch out for...hence

Watch Dem N...is Nas talking about how you have to not only watch outsiders gunning for your spot (maybe Pac) you also have to watch those around you (Big). Obviously I'm adding those two MCs who may not have anything g to do with the storyline but does add to the metaphor of the entire album being about his hip-hop career and both those guys have been documented as going at Nas so maybe there was more to that underlying story.

Take It Blood is Nas saying "fuck it...they can come for me all they want...I'm taking mine any way". This track is Nas basically stating again that despite tracks 3-5, he's taking his.

Nas Is Coming is exactly what the title says coming off of Take It In Blood. He King and he's coming to take everything he can get.

Affirmative Actions...not only is Nas coming...his team is introduced as well.

The Set-Up is Nas (and AZ is mentioned in this story as well) taking care of business.

Black Girl Lost is a track that breaks away from the main story to add another dimension to Nas' character as he speaks about how he wishes he could save a specific female who he is obviously interested in. Every story or movie like the one Nas told has a love interest and this is the song that speaks on that and discusses the dynamic between him and the female. Remember, Nas was and is big into movies and specifically crime/mafia movies so this song plays that role in the album.

Suspect is a track that eludes to Nas and his team still having unfinished business in the revenge for the murder after Street Dreams.

Shootouts is again pretty literally and maybe can be seen as the climax of the album.

Live N Rap is basically Nas and his team (now played by Mobb...maybe they're just introduced as more members of his team) claiming victory and stating "don't fuck with them".

If I Ruled The World is Nas basically on top of the street (rap) game and imagining how much farther he can take it. What would he do if he ruled the world...not just the streets (rap).

I feel like the story is basic and not that hard to piece together. It makes sense when considering the type of movies Nas was into and how Nas saw his position on the rap game.

And shit, maybe Brew is right that Nas didn't intentionally piece the album together like that but does that void the fact that it works thematically from on track to the next? Does that mean it's not a concept album because I would argue regardless of the intentions, it's a concept album due to the storyline.

Sgt Peppers is always praised as a concept album and the Beatles have noted that the songs were not made to go together and have no connection.

I never feel like I need to be told what a concept album is. If it follows a specific theme throughout the entire album then it's a concept to me. Ready To Die is a concept album in my opinion because that two follows Big through his struggle and ultimately fall.

think it's a hell of a reach to call it a concept album. For starters, the "being on top of the game" narrative is pretty much the epitome of hip-hop at its very essence. "I'm the best MC" etc., it's the type of competitive shit-talking that hip-hop was born from, so I don't think the fact that he spent a lot of IWW talking about that is/was anything beyond just that - shit talk. Nas is just so damn good at it/light years better than most everyone else so he was able to make the album flow better and more cohesively than his cohorts.

Further, I think if you're going to consider IWW a concept album just because he strung together a few loosely related themes (being on top, guarding his place at the top, bringing his crew to the top with him) then you'd have to be willing to consider a TON of other albums "concept albums" as well. In fact, any artist worth a damn goes into an album with *some* kind of vision as to the connected themes and subjects they'd like to touch on, but I don't consider that to be them creating "concept albums". It's just, you know, an album. One that immediately comes to mind is The Marshall Mathers LP. Thematically it was all about the ills of fame and how tired he was of dealing with his newfound popularity, etc. And while I think MMLP is one of his two best albums and definitely his most well put together thematically, I would never go as far as to say it's a "concept album". I doubt you would either. And if that's the case it'd be a little disingenuous and biased. Maybe you do consider a lot of other albums concept albums as well. I'm just taking a guess.

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"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

I'm open to hearing other albums as concept albums as well.

You have some concept albums that stick to themes and then some that stick to themes through a story.

I feel IWW does that and has a beginning/middle/end with a climax like most stories do.

I honestly thought IWW was also fairly easy to follow in that regards which is why I always thought it was a great album.

of "concept album" than I do, which is fine. If it makes you appreciate albums more all the power to you.

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"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

If an artist sits down and says "I want to cover this main topic through these different themes" and then ties each track together...it's a concept album.

I don't need something like Good Kid where the concept is spoon fed and follows a specific timeline etc.

Maybe that means I have a more broad take on what a concept album is but I like to analyze albums from the artists perspective.

do you think IWW is more of a concept album than Only Built?

do you think IWW is better than Only Built?

-----
Cameo
Soundshape Records

but I don't think the song necessarily follow any real timeline. The skits and the production definitely keep the album cohesive.

I think that IWW follows a tighter story but Nas has always had a knack for using small details to create larger concepts.

OB4CL is the better album but I'd be lying to say I don't appreciate Nas' lyrical performance on IWW better than any aspect I appreciate on Cuban Linx.

Both are classic in my opinion but Cuban Linx is one of the greatest hip-hop albums of all-time.

Shout out to Melmag...
This was his theory for Only Built being a concept album.

Striving 4 Perfection - Rae & Ghost discuss the masterplan: capture the spoils of the mafia underworld, make they names known in infamy, then retire somewhere in the islands with their families

Knuckleheadz - their first foray into the underworld. they're given a minor task to test their mettle...an accomplice is killed along the way...they chalk it up to the game, and the life they've chosen. the task is a success nonetheless, the underboss is mildly impressed.

Knowledge GOd - Rae contemplates this life he's chosen & his impending death or incarceration. no time for looking back though, he has taken the oath. the plan must be executed no matter what.
the promises of riches & fame far outweigh his conscience anyway.

Criminology - Rae & Ghost lace up they boots & delve full-blown into their first major heist. they blaze a trail never seen before. and just when you thought they were done, ALAS! they come back for leftovers & take out a major kingpin in the after-raid. authorities are baffled by this couple's expertise & adeptness. they become a sensation almost overnite. rival crews take full notice!

Incarecerated Scarfaces - the block is motherfuckin hot!!! whispers about the heist still linger. Rae & Ghost decide to separate for a while. Rae is satisfied, his ego is stroked to the fullest. he prides himself on a job well done, but realizes the battle has only just begun. he praises the soldiers that have fallen along the way, but FUCK NO, this isnt Rae's fate: he will conquer at all cost!!

Rainy Dayz - Rae & Ghost reunite in a undisclosed location to discuss their masterplan...they're both still focused, proud yet humbled, their ultimate dreams & ambitions is still intact. life might look bleak at the moment but the future holds infinite happiness.

Guillotines - Rival crews are put on blast. It's discovered that this already notorious couple is part of a even larger family. A silent assasin from this family is revealed as none other than Deck who singlehandedly wipes out a frontline of messengers. INCREDIBLE!

Can it be so simple (rmx) - Paranoia ultimately sets in. A mere screwface from a random cat sets off a bullet. again, they contemplate an easier, more peaceful existence. how long will they live like this???

Shark Niggaz: Rae & Ghost learn about a copycat heist. they
criticize the perpetrators and advise them on being original. Copy cats never prosper.

Ice Water - Rae & Ghost meet up with an old accomplice, Capadonna, fresh out the bin. they reminisce about past adventures as youngsters, boast about recent conquests, sexual exploits, etc..

Glaciers of Ice - Back to Business! Rae & Ghost pull off yet another
heist, this one arguably more daring than the previous one. their legend is at a climax. RZA's ominous & chaotic piano loops leave a murderous trail in its path. the full impact of this particular heist may never be recognized. Rae & Ghost are now officially kingpins themselves, fuck the petty thuggery.

Verbal Intercourse - Escobar, an old, respected, rival hears about the couple's recent heists. A kingpin himself, he cant help but be mystified at the couple's brilliance. At a chance
meeting & ovecome with comraderie, he lays down an epic ode which later becomes a scripture.

Wisdom Body - GFK longs for a woman's warmth.. a lady's man at heart, he must satify his carnal lust immediately. He proceeds to proposition a woman the only way he knows how: spit the meanest game

Spot Rushers - While GFK is away on his rendevous, Rae completes a quick & opportune wipeout of his last rival. He has come tooo far to be taken out by a mere messenger. The messenger is outdone & taken hostage, his boss gleefully shows up to witness Rae's hanging and is astounded to see his messenger gagged & bound behind the door. In a fit of utter shock, he turns to run, and is met with 2 bullets to the head from Rae's ruger. MISSION COMPLETE!

Ice Cream - Word of this notorious family spread. They celebrate
a job well done. They toast lavishly at the impending good life. Tons of female of all shapes,sizes & ethnicites are invited, a massive orgy commences.

Wu-Gambinos - The dream is finally realized. The epic saga is now at the end of its infamous run. Rae & GFK having spearheaded this expedition are at a loss for words. from petty thugs to deified kingpins, they will now live in infamy. The Wu-Gambinos are now the elite family in the crime underworld. Jealousy & Envy linger, but nobody dares challenge...they ride off in the sunset, legends for eons.

Heaven or Hell - A while later Rae & Ghost, finally having a chance to reflect, reminisce about all the individuals that shaped their lives in one form or another, the highs & pitfalls, and especially the soldiers that died along the way. they are saddened of the loss but ultimately optimistic of their souls in a better place.


No one in that post even tried to come up with a theory for IWW
as a concept album, and there are some flimsy theories in that post.
I personally don't think IWW is a concept album.
Some songs you could potentially point to
and try real hard to build a case for it, sure.
Though most of your examples were:
"this is Nas talking about being on top, this is Nas talking about staying on top."

I'll take Only Built as the better album as well.
And the much stronger concept LP.

peace.

-----
Cameo
Soundshape Records

I'll take that as a concept album.

I feel by nature Wu has always been more abstract and that's part of what makes them great.

I don't think the storyline is that much more in depth than IWW nor do I care no one mentioned IWW in that post.

I think both albums touch on a similar theme with a as obviously giving a better performance on the mic.

The one area I agree with people is that the beats could've been better. I just don't think they hinder the album from greatness because they're still dope to me

The main reason I take Cuban alms over IWW is because it has more iconic type of songs. That album is something else and will forever be in my top 10 of all-time.

Props to dude that wrote out his thoughts on the album as well. He obviously went much more in depth than I did.

Good shit.

I will listen to it because of the fine work done by Nas.
But I really don't like Trackmasters beats.
The Dre beat was eh to me. Would've liked to hear Nas on XXplosive.

The Message is one of my favorite Nas songs along with I Gave You Power.

Honestly I like what he was doing on I Am more.
It's a shame that the lp was bootlegged to shit
and we didn't get to hear it as intended.

But due to itunes, mp3s and Lost Tapes we can sort of recreate it.

-----
Cameo
Soundshape Records

That was a good explanation and I get where you are coming from. I fall more on Brew's side with this though, your explanation of "concept album" does seem a bit too broad for my liking.

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https://93millionmilesabove.blogspot.com/
https://rateyourmusic.com/~Kosa12

I too think it's a bit broad.
I think albums can be cohesive and follow a theme without being a concept.

https://digife.com

If an artist's follow one theme and strings songs together, then why would you not consider it a concept album?

I feel like you're discrediting the artist if you do that.

So an album has to be spoon fed to you like GKMC for it to be a concept album?

Get over yourselves. Make good songs and be done with it.


"I wasn't sure if I was lost or running away again. . ."

http://austinato.bandcamp.com

http://www.discogs.com/lists/Favorites-of-2016/269401

"I wasn't sure if I was lost or running away again. . ."

http://austinato.bandcamp.com

http://www.discogs.com/lists/Favorites-of-2016/269401

I think they're overrated because most artist struggle to do them right.

Its quite interesting that the themes are kind of similar to that of the story of Escobar (which was Nas's persona) from the Netflix series Narcos such as rising to the top, gun violence, the struggles to stay on top and dreams of a better world.

ALL CAPS WHEN U SPELL THE NAME

And I just made the connection to his spot in the rap game.

I honestly didn't know people didn't see the album like that.

People are responding to my write up of the concept like "well it's basic to talk about being on top of the rap game...everyone does that"

But not in the same way. He basically used the entire Rap Game/Crack Game concept for the entire story of the album and I think it's extremely well done.

Haha I'm not trying to be overly critical ... I just find it kind of humorous that you are quite literally the first person in the history of the internet to refer to it as such.

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"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

Doesn't mean I'm wrong.

Hopefully you don't limit your gain of knowledge to Google.

That was fucking *PERFECT*.

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"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

still, we waiting. tell us

.

and he was a much better emcee on that album. But as an album it's lacking in the sequencing aspect, which is probably the most overlooked part of album making and the one that takes a good album to great.

But man there isn't a wasted syllable on the whole thing. The way Nas constructed his verses were definitely an upgrade in the technical aspect of rapping. When I put it on now that's what keeps my attention more than anything else about it.

__________________________________________
CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
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Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

I agree with the lyricism on IWW. May be the best album from top to bottom.

Nas killed that shit.

I also 100% agree with the sequencing comment but I A) don't feel that IWW was that poorly sequenced at all and B) don't look at Illmatic for its sequencing...granted its only 10 tracks.

Funny you mention sequencing cause I was just thinking that "I Gave You Power" is out of place. It aesthetically fits much better with the Havoc tracks and more grimy stuff towards the end of the album. Having it as the 3rd song kind of disrupts the production vibe that the trackmasters establish in the beginning of the album. Street Dreams into Watch Dem would make more sense sonically.

is probably the most important song on the album, thematically. With what Nas decided to do and Primo's movie-like music and the bounce hebadded to it, it pretty much sets in motion the way the album would feel across the board. It's probably the one piece that the album couldn't do without. After the opening and Street Dreams, having him bring it back home that way moves the album story along without it feeling forced.

As an aside, I think IGYP is one of Premier's finest moments that doesn't get recognized as such. We all know it's a great beat but the way it moves the story along while serving Nas' words makes for quite a listening experience. As he goes into more detail with the story, the music makes you feel like something is about to happen at all times until you get to the endwhere it just stops abruptly. You take that record off and the album starts to fall apart from a narrative and feel standpoint.

__________________________________________
CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
------------------------------------
Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

He couldn't trust the audience to figure out that he was rapping from the perspective of the gun? he had to spoon feed the shit?
it was so wack, to ruin a great song with "it's like...like...I'm a gun" FOH

by Nate Dogg is about Tupac.

this has always annoyed me about that song too

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https://93millionmilesabove.blogspot.com/
https://rateyourmusic.com/~Kosa12

or WuTang Forever >> 36 Chambers

>
>or WuTang Forever >> 36 Chambers
>
>

Cuban Linx and Liquid Swords are >>> 36 though

... is the best Wu Tang album.

What are your reasons for thinking so?

Maybe it's nostalgia, but I can't agree that either Cuban Linx or Liquid Swords are better than 36 Chambers.

Linx and Swords are great albums in their own way, but 36 Chambers was an island onto itself, if only for its originality relative to everything out at that time.

<--- Me when my head hits the pillow

I get people say 36 is one of the best albums ever because it came out of nowhere and was something entirely new...

But the production, lyrics, and cohesiveness only got better with OB4CL and LS. Shit, I may even add in Ironman.

is the best Wu project, that said, my favorite Wu MCs are Rae and Ghost and I think RZA's production, like you said, probably reached it's peak with that album and Liquid Swordz, though I have to say - the raw, lo-fi vibe of Wu's debut record, that dark, grimy sound seems nearly impossible to imitate, definitely my second favorite Wu project.

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https://93millionmilesabove.blogspot.com/
https://rateyourmusic.com/~Kosa12