Granted, Dilla didn't act as a producer, according to the credits on Discogs, on Phrenology and The Tipping Point, but my sense is that Dilla probably was there to bounce ideas off of Quest and make suggestions regarding the direction of some of the songs if not the structure of those entire albums.

This statement is an attempt to play pop psychologist, but it could be said that the anger that has been a major theme in all of their music since the death of Dilla could be a result of their anger and grief felt as a result of Dilla's death.

Even if the creative brew that made up the album didn't include feelings of anger regarding Dilla's passing, it's interesting that their albums all had similar musical themes without Dilla except for DYWM (Illadelph, Game Theory, Rising Down, How I Got Over, undun, and ATYSYC were all darker albums sonically and in terms of subject matter than TFA and Phrenology)

Dilla seemed to bring out the best in ?uest. Jay made Quest's genius at conceptualizing themes within an album and artistic statements grounded in the music of the time and for lack of a better term, soulful, while being forward leaning.

All of the albums by The Roots have included heady, intellectual concepts, but the ones where Dilla's influence was more direct had a brighter, happy sound to them. Dilla seemed to serve as a good balance to Quest's loftiness.

Saying Dilla is the main reason for the band's perceived creative rut could be oversimplifying things, but I wanted to hear your thoughts.

<--- Me when my head hits the pillow

I could call their work over the past decade a "rut." If we look back over their albums, most of them have a darker tone to them than we remember. In fact you could make the argument that they're making some of the most important work in Hip Hop as of late.

__________________________________________
CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
------------------------------------
Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

The albums aren't bad in their own right. Each record has at least one song with really nice moments which remind me how great this band is and how they can have a foundation in old-school hip-hop and be progressive as they pull from their past influences.

Like you said many of the band's past albums, even the Geffen albums, were darker than they seemed at the time when they were released. So in effect you're saying that the band hasn't changed, maybe just my perception of them?

There's some truth to that, although albums like Illadelph had a youthful energy that Thought's Money Making Jam Boys mixtape showed.

And like you're getting at, the songs are as well-crafted as they have been over the last number of albums, so it's not the artistry or musicianship that's fallen off or ?uest's leadership.

Maybe I'm older and jaded and in some ways spoiled by the past greatness of the band and I can't look past the quality of these current releases, especially given how few artists are making both musically interesting and socially intelligent music like The Roots are.

The best art, to me, holds a mirror up to its audience and shows the audience, through the artist's experience and expertise understanding reality, a way out of the bleakness. Whether it's a joke to add levity to a tense set of life circumstances or a sense of optimism which is uplifting and refreshing.

And for as interesting and lofty, in a good way, these last two records have been, I wish the band was more 'creative' in the sense of communicating the uplifting and refreshing aspect of their message through their music.

Maybe that's where Dilla's influence may have come in? To help with realizing the concept of ?uest's message in a way that is easier to sense through the music.

<--- Me when my head hits the pillow

This isn't to say their last several albums are
bad.

But, they definitely aren't as cutting edge - especially
musically- as they used to be IMO.

I feel like Dilla obviously had a positive impact
on the roots sonically.

I'm not sure if ?uest benefitted from advice,
competition, fandom, inspiration- or all of the
above.

But yeah, anything post Game Theory is uneven
at best and musically, well, boring.

The other factor could be their houseband
status? I dunno.

Add to the increasingly boring production
a decreasing presence of Thought- each
album has been worse that the previous
for a minute.



I do know you won't get honest replies here tho-
at least very few. Hero worship and alldat.

Either way, the Roots were never repetitive
until Dilla passed. Now all their stuff sounds
the same. You could never say that before.

I think it's be dope if quest found another
Artist to bounce ideas. Mix it up, etc.



And no, for the record, not Elvis f$cking Costello.


But yeah, i think you're on to something.

I think Dillas absence leaves a lot of holes, etc-
Including the output of some of his peeps. Com
is another one.

I don't mean to say that Dilla was the engine that drove The Roots' success or that ?uest isn't a brilliant producer and musical mind in his own right.

Dilla and ?uest obviously worked well together. Their best moments, to me, came when they were working together on the same projects - Things Fall Apart, Like Water for Chocolate, Voodoo, Electic Circus - and it seemed that ?uest really looked up to Dilla as someone to emulate and to push his own craft and creative process.

I'm not a creative type, but finding someone who you both can work alongside yet have a mutual admiration so that you can push each other forward in whatever line of work is a rare thing and it almost would have been odd if ?uest were able to replicate that same dynamic with someone else.

You're idea about ?uest collaborating with an up and coming producer to bounce ideas off is an interesting one, although since he and Dilla were peers, there wasn't an imbalance of experience although Dilla was a bit younger than ?uest when they worked together.

Terrance Martin and Thundercat mainly work with the FlyLo and Kendrick camp, but man, they seem like they would work well with ?uest.

<--- Me when my head hits the pillow

>I don't mean to say that Dilla was the engine that drove The
>Roots' success or that ?uest isn't a brilliant producer and
>musical mind in his own right.
>
>Dilla and ?uest obviously worked well together. Their best
>moments, to me, came when they were working together on the
>same projects - Things Fall Apart, Like Water for Chocolate,
>Voodoo, Electic Circus - and it seemed that ?uest really
>looked up to Dilla as someone to emulate and to push his own
>craft and creative process.
>
>I'm not a creative type, but finding someone who you both can
>work alongside yet have a mutual admiration so that you can
>push each other forward in whatever line of work is a rare
>thing and it almost would have been odd if ?uest were able to
>replicate that same dynamic with someone else.
>

Word.

In fact, I'm pretty sure quest himself has said
TFA was a response to Fantastic and
Phren was a result if Dilla pushing him left
(Electric Circus etc)

Kind of crazy how folks are dismissing your
point outright and in the process downplaying
The whole Soulquarians era.

But, I just don't think you're going to get a lot
of open minded discussion on this one.

I love Dilla like the next but there are certain artists that I feel people go above and beyond attempting to give credit to and he's one of.

I completely agree that everything after Game Theory has been spotty at best. But to try to give Dilla the credit for their early albums is not only ridiculous but also disrespectful in my opinion.

But, it's worth mentioning that Dilla and ?uest had a really good working relationship and obviously ?uest really thought well of Dilla and his work.

?uest is a brilliant producer and musician in his own right and deserves his fair share of being one of the leading figures in turning a hip-hop band into a credible act rather than a novelty.

But whether it is simply that ?uest and Dilla influenced each other's work or Dilla was a good sounding board, The Roots' music was more adventurous and dynamic when Dilla was around the band. Obviously ?uest, as one of the leaders and chief influencer of the band's sound, is the driving reason for the band's acclaim, respect and level of expertise, but I think the interaction between the two helped the band's music become more innovative and wide-ranging.

<--- Me when my head hits the pillow

It's odd you keep claiming that and then naming IH and TTP as two of the albums to make your case.

IH was simply an attempt to sound more mid-90s hip-hop than a live band in order to fit into the current NYC scene.

TTP was an attempt at sounding more commercial for that time with Jimmy pushing for that.

Then you have TFA and P which to me was more of an answer to Aquemini and Stankonia more than Dilla pushing them...as was LWFC and EC.

Then I find it odd that you keep leaving Game Theory out of the equation when that was probably their best and most cohesive effort with a balance of pushing the envelope a little while staying true to their foundation.

If you look at RD, HIGO, UD, and ATYSYC...one could even make the claim that those albums are more outside of their comfort zone (with maybe the exception of HIGO) and therefore more "adventurous".

I just think that your statement is just a desperate attempt to give Dilla credit for something he doesn't really deserve. I get that ?uest was influenced by him but that wouldn't necessarily stop with Dilla's death which makes your statement come off as eluding to Dilla constantly being in the studio with The Roots and pushing the direction which I don't think was the case at all.

>It's odd you keep claiming that and then naming IH and TTP as
>two of the albums to make your case.
>
>IH was simply an attempt to sound more mid-90s hip-hop than a
>live band in order to fit into the current NYC scene.
>
>TTP was an attempt at sounding more commercial for that time
>with Jimmy pushing for that.
>
>Then you have TFA and P which to me was more of an answer to
>Aquemini and Stankonia more than Dilla pushing them...as was
>LWFC and EC.
>
>Then I find it odd that you keep leaving Game Theory out of
>the equation when that was probably their best and most
>cohesive effort with a balance of pushing the envelope a
>little while staying true to their foundation.
>
>If you look at RD, HIGO, UD, and ATYSYC...one could even make
>the claim that those albums are more outside of their comfort
>zone (with maybe the exception of HIGO) and therefore more
>"adventurous".
>
>I just think that your statement is just a desperate attempt
>to give Dilla credit for something he doesn't really deserve.
>I get that ?uest was influenced by him but that wouldn't
>necessarily stop with Dilla's death which makes your statement
>come off as eluding to Dilla constantly being in the studio
>with The Roots and pushing the direction which I don't think
>was the case at all.
>
>
all of this.....on-point!

"You don't like climbing trees?......You're missin' out." - Michael Jackson

"But Michael, you're a 44-year-old man now, what do you get out of
this?" - Martin Bashir

"Prince Michael II but we call him Blanket......because it's an expression I use

People age.
It happens to us all.
It's extremely rare that it happens without a loss
of vitality in some respect.

~
~
~
~
~
Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

There's a link to a YouTube video which shows ?uest talking about the age of the bandmembers influencing their music in the ... and then you shoot your cousin?!!? post near the bottom.

Quest said that the band is consciously trying to make music that serves a social purpose. The shift in the aim for the band's music along with the kind of seriousness that making serious music takes could be a big reason for the heaviness of the last two records.

<--- Me when my head hits the pillow

It matters in art as well.

~
~
~
~
~
Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

If we're talking their proper studio albums, they remain some of the best albums in their discography and no, I'm not in anyone's back-pocket nor was I bribed to say that. I love the fact that because the popular opinion is that something is different, it immediately means it's time for everyone to throw hate because it's not "You Got Me" or "Proceed Part 42". There were differences between DO YOU WANT MORE?!!!??! and ILLADELPH HALFLIFE that were as clear as day so back then, I was glad they were making the effort to not do another "Silent Treatment" or another "Datskat". There's a sense of continuity in all of their music, which is why all of their songs are numbered in that way. You're meant to hear it individually, as an individual whole and as one continuous piece. It may not be meant to be heard that way but as an option, why not listen to it that way?

Early on, I was into The Roots for the long haul and I can't say that for groups I loved for a long time. I haven't been in tune with De La or Public Enemy in a long time but I highly respect them. The Roots go out of their way to be "left of themselves", they realize the risks but also do what they do in order to continue to be a unit. Otherwise, they would've been what everyone expects them to do. I am more than willing to take them at whatever face value they may offer and I'm with them.

I became an Okayplayer because of my interest in their music. Hard to believe but I've been here for 17 years. I've been a Roots fan for 22. I don't care what the "popular opinion" is. What I care about is my opinion. Music matters to me, which is why I am still here. As for what you're alluding to, you know exactly what you're saying.


SHORT VERSION: like Dave Mason, we just disagree.




THE HOME OF BOOK-NESS:
http://thisisbooksmusic.wordpress.com
http://twitter.com/thisisjohnbook
http://www.facebook.com/book1


http://i32.tinypic.com/kbewp4.gif
http://i60.tinypic.com/a59mp3.jpg

I've liked them since the first time I heard Proceed back in '94. I own all of their proper albums and even bought the two 'greatest hits' albums. So, I like the band.

I even like a lot of the albums the band has released since Dilla passed. I'm not as much of a fan of Game Theory as many people on here are, but undun is an album that is one of their best, if not the album that matches the essence of the group's ability to make good music that is as well-executed as it is well-conceived.

I'm not saying that the band has 'fallen off'. Do they have the same youth in their music? No. But like Boogie Stimuli mentioned, the group is made up of 40 somethings that have been at their craft for over 20 years. I'm not generally a fan of many 'legacy' acts, but the band likely reached the height of its potential and is currently operating at a high level even if its mark on hip-hop has already been made.

But I disagree with you that the band is still 'left of themselves'.

Do You Want More was the playful album. Illadelph was the 'let's be taken seriously album.' Things Fall Apart was them hitting their stride. Phrenology was the band at their most confident and arguably at the height of their skill. And while The Tipping Point didn't give The Roots the superstardom they may have wished for, there are some really strong songs on there that were socially aware and also used Afro-beat and instrumentation which was rare for the early Aughties. Plus it showed a willingness to go for pop stardom, which is a goal few fans of the band thought it would ever reach, even if we wanted them to get there.

Each album seemed to one-up the one before it as far as its artistry and musicianship and execution.

But after Phrenology something shifted.

It could have been Quest not having access to Dilla to collaborate with and have as an inspiration. It could be that the music marketplace had changed and The Roots needed to carve out a new take on their music because they couldn't count on being, and forgive me if I'm using this term incorrectly, a critically acclaimed loss-leader which could be supported on a major label.n From what I understand ?uest and the rest of the group really liked being on A&M and with the label switch, maybe the band didn't get that same support and guidance at Def Jam.

I try to accept each album on its own and maybe I'm the one getting older and simply listening to the new albums through the static of nostalgia and feeling disappointed that the style of music the band used to deliver is something that they'll likely not produce again.

In the end, the newer batch of records are more intellectually interesting than musically adventurous and its the adventure that I want from them again.

<--- Me when my head hits the pillow

>Iundun is an album that is one of their
>best, if not the album that matches the essence of the group's
>ability to make good music that is as well-executed as it is
>well-conceived.

i been saying it for years...

and the rhyming! smfh

http://howardlloyd.bandcamp.com

>But after Phrenology something shifted.

Wait wait -- your pivot point for them "losing their vitality" (whatever that means) is Phrenology? Their fourth major album? Since which they've released six proper albums over twelve years, touching on every style they've played with in the past and adding more and more to their repertoire?

I was going to write a long response to your original post, but I read that and had to laugh and move on, bc if your benchmark is so early, than the span of their "vital" period for you is criminally short (three albums, four years?).

Why frame this as a question about vitality when it's really about you not liking the direction the band took in their career and art? This isn't about their relationship with Dilla, or age, or quality. You don't like what they've done - that's fine, you don't have to. But don't turn this into a "what did they lose?" question when it's really just a pining for a rather short, specific period in a twenty-plus year career.

rotating cast of characters on record and behind the scenes, and never in my life did I think Dilla had much input in either capacity.

I never saw Dilla as someone who really even cared that much about what anyone else was doing.

rotating cast of characters on record and behind the scenes, and never in my life did I think Dilla had much input in either capacity.

I never saw Dilla as someone who really even cared that much about what anyone else was doing.

The Roots have been trying to branch off to commercialism since "Phrenology" and basically where I started to not dig them anymore "Tipping Point" was their last decent album.

Influence, yeah J-Dilla had a lot to do with them but not the only kat in their OKP camp gave them ideas though, to me it's not others, it's just them not having any passion in what they are delivering now, but they will give you some dope free shit, c'mon.

Blackthought is spitting like a robot, Dice Raw can't sing, Porn ain't on enough songs, Malik B. is missing in action, Kamal isn't bringing enough ideas to the table, L. Hubbard needs to come back.

https://tinyurl.com/y4ba6hog

---------
"We in here talking about later career Prince records
& your fool ass is cruising around in a time machine
trying to collect props for a couple of sociopathic degenerates" - s.blak

It's one of their worst.

******************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

Geto Boys, Poison Clan, UGK, Eightball & MJG, OutKast, Goodie Mob

It took me a few years to really enjoy "Tipping Point" cause before I always skipped a few tracks especially "Don't Say Nuthin'" which I still hate, but I can listen to it from beginning to the bonus end.

https://tinyurl.com/y4ba6hog

---------
"We in here talking about later career Prince records
& your fool ass is cruising around in a time machine
trying to collect props for a couple of sociopathic degenerates" - s.blak

Damn near every album they released on Def Jam is better than TTP. The very next album, Game Theory, is easily a top 3 or 4 Roots album. TTP is toward the bottom of their discog. Only albums I'd rank it higher than is Organix and ATYSYC

******************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

Geto Boys, Poison Clan, UGK, Eightball & MJG, OutKast, Goodie Mob

no snark, real question

I upped the ...and then you shoot your cousin thread after revisiting that album

and I had the Tipping Point on yesterday

not that I've worked my way through all of their non-Dilla releases

but I think you may be holding onto initial criticism

because the albums have aged really well IMO

and sound real f'n fresh in today's context

I had to LOL@hypnotic donkey rythms

'amazing what niggas willing to do for a chain'

the mumbling on don't say nuthin'

yeah, if you haven't revisited them recently, give it a go

worth your time fo sho

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

“So back we go to these questions — friendship, character… ethics.”

Wake Up!
Betty Wright
and Wise Up Ghost

Money Making Jam Boys
The James Brown jawn with J.

I mean, if we're debating the Roots being in a creative rut

could be their creativity is just passing some folks by, IMO

I think we came to the conclusion after Undun, that if you're looking for a traditional straight hip-hop album front to back from them

they're not in that space anymore

and are one of few artists/groups that can do whatever the f they want

shrugs

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

Personally, I have no desire to hear a John Legend or Elvis Costello album no matter the context.

I also think if you don't have Thought, its not a Roots album.

My guess is there are some beats on those releases that could have been used on actual Roots albums- but instead they were wasted on those.

"Roots" seems more like a BRAND name lately.

Also, as a fan, I hate that they have basically become the safe backup band for white america.

Be it the house band or the entirely unnecessary Elvis album, etc.


**

I do think folks in here don't totally get the point though. I think Okayplayers are hard-wired to defend 15 no matter what.

The Roots don't have a bad album.

The problem is they do seem in a rut- the last several releases have sounded very repetitive and not at all fresh when compared to the previous release.

TFA sounded nothing like Ill...Phren sounded nothing like TFA...GT was a HUGE departure, etc.

You can't say that anymore.

RD sounded like GT, but a little angrier.

HIGO sounded like GT, but a little sleepier. Well, a lot sleepier.

Undun? That's straight up Game Theory part 2.


I think the theory is pretty sound that Dilla- through collaboration, through inspiration, through competition may have pushed them each time to do something fresh. To push the boundaries.

TFA was an answer to Fantastic. Phren was Dilla saying "follow me this way" or whatever- I don't remember the exact words.

GT has Dilla's spirit all in it.


This isn't a nutty or crackpot theory in my opinion. It isn't Dilla stannery. It is paying attention to how much they/Quest were inspired and driven by Dilla. Its in his own words.

I think it could be Dilla's absence.

Could be they are now a house band.

Could be the new band makeup.

Could be age.

Could be Rising Down really was the last Roots album...now they are "Roots crew" ablums where Dice, etc really come up with the direction. Again, "roots" seems more like a brand these days.

Kind of strange that I believe the Lesson recently discussed somewhere how much Com's output has been hurt by the absence of Dilla...but folks won't consider that the Roots may miss him too.

And again, this isn't to say they are making "bad" music. Just repeating themselves.

Add the presence of Dice's corny hooks and terrible singing, the shrinking presence of Black Thought, etc...

the albums just aren't hitting like they used to.

>I do think folks in here don't totally get the point though.
>I think Okayplayers are hard-wired to defend 15 no matter
>what.
>
>The Roots don't have a bad album.
>
>The problem is they do seem in a rut- the last several
>releases have sounded very repetitive and not at all fresh
>when compared to the previous release.
>
>TFA sounded nothing like Ill...Phren sounded nothing like
>TFA...GT was a HUGE departure, etc.
>
>You can't say that anymore.
>
>RD sounded like GT, but a little angrier.
>
>HIGO sounded like GT, but a little sleepier. Well, a lot
>sleepier.
>
>Undun? That's straight up Game Theory part 2.
>
>
>I think the theory is pretty sound that Dilla- through
>collaboration, through inspiration, through competition may
>have pushed them each time to do something fresh. To push the
>boundaries.
>
>TFA was an answer to Fantastic. Phren was Dilla saying
>"follow me this way" or whatever- I don't remember the exact
>words.
>
>GT has Dilla's spirit all in it.
>
>
>This isn't a nutty or crackpot theory in my opinion. It isn't
>Dilla stannery. It is paying attention to how much they/Quest
>were inspired and driven by Dilla. Its in his own words.
>
>I think it could be Dilla's absence.
>
>Could be they are now a house band.
>
>Could be the new band makeup.
>
>Could be age.
>
>Could be Rising Down really was the last Roots album...now
>they are "Roots crew" ablums where Dice, etc really come up
>with the direction. Again, "roots" seems more like a brand
>these days.
>
>Kind of strange that I believe the Lesson recently discussed
>somewhere how much Com's output has been hurt by the absence
>of Dilla...but folks won't consider that the Roots may miss
>him too.
>
>And again, this isn't to say they are making "bad" music.
>Just repeating themselves.
>
>Add the presence of Dice's corny hooks and terrible singing,
>the shrinking presence of Black Thought, etc...
>
>the albums just aren't hitting like they used to.

Thanks for stating your point so clearly. The thesis of your comment is exactly what I wanted to get across.

I don't think that Dilla pulled ?uest into the corner of their recording studios and was telling ?uest when to bring the keys in and when to remove the guitar. ?uest and Dilla just had a synergy which made the music of The Roots intelligent and conceptual but with a certain style of funkiness.

The example that came to mind was the relationship that Guru and Premier had. The two of them were great artists individually, but when they worked together they had an alchemy that was unique and landmark within hip-hop. And while Premier has made classics since Guru passed, I don't think he's been able to capture that magic that he had with Guru with any other MC.

I can see that someone might read my post and think I was dissing ?uest and to a degree I was in a passive aggressive way even though that didn't seem clear earlier.

I can't remember if I said this earlier in this post, but ?uest is on the record that the albums lately have been intended to be serious and have a form of commentary to them. That's noble and fitting their style since they have always had awareness of their lyrical imagery and the sophistication of their music.

Are the recent albums quality? Yes. I've listen to all of them repeatedly and even lately have given ...And Then You Shoot Your Cousin a revisit and am amazed at the intricacy of the lyricism as it relates to the environment of the 'characters'.

I don't know how to articulate what I sense about the music of The Roots' last few albums and to be fair I simply don't give music the amount of attention and focus that I did even five years ago. My attention span for holding a concept in my mind has shrunk over the years and unless that message is as compelling as Kendrick's To Pimp a Butterfly, I find it hard to mind any artist's message, even if it is worth sharing.

...And Then You Shoot Your Cousin seems like a Terrance Malick movie where the high-concept of statement is likely really rich in depth and meaning, but unless the person viewing the film is rich in film knowledge and has the time and energy to focus, the message is going to be lost on them and that's what I feel with the last few albums.

<--- Me when my head hits the pillow

"?uest and Dilla just had a synergy which made the music of The Roots intelligent and conceptual but with a certain style of funkiness."

seen

"The example that came to mind was the relationship that Guru and Premier had. The two of them were great artists individually, but when they worked together they had an alchemy that was unique and landmark within hip-hop. And while Premier has made classics since Guru passed, I don't think he's been able to capture that magic that he had with Guru with any other MC."

agreed

"I can't remember if I said this earlier in this post, but ?uest is on the record that the albums lately have been intended to be serious and have a form of commentary to them. That's noble and fitting their style since they have always had awareness of their lyrical imagery and the sophistication of their music."

^^^ we're saying the same thing. They're in a space where they can do an album like this. I'm happy for them just off the strength of that.

"Are the recent albums quality? Yes."

Why can't people get past this? Better, why do people feel they have to go past this? One of my favorite groups is still nice <end/story>

"My attention span for holding a concept in my mind has shrunk over the years and unless that message is as compelling as Kendrick's To Pimp a Butterfly, I find it hard to mind any artist's message, even if it is worth sharing."

ironic, I think it's the same concept as undun

"...And Then You Shoot Your Cousin seems like a Terrance Malick movie where the high-concept of statement is likely really rich in depth and meaning, but unless the person viewing the film is rich in film knowledge and has the time and energy to focus, the message is going to be lost on them and that's what I feel with the last few albums."

right, they made an album for adults

a few questions?

now that D' is back do you expect them to move more toward that Soulquarian sound?

I think you're underestimating the Roots ability to continue that sound, or try to recreate that synergy had they chose

of course there is no Dilla, but there are cats in the game that are comparable

They moved on

and to be honest

I think Dilla would have to

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

>"?uest and Dilla just had a synergy which made the music of
>The Roots intelligent and conceptual but with a certain style
>of funkiness."
>
>seen
>
>"The example that came to mind was the relationship that Guru
>and Premier had. The two of them were great artists
>individually, but when they worked together they had an
>alchemy that was unique and landmark within hip-hop. And while
>Premier has made classics since Guru passed, I don't think
>he's been able to capture that magic that he had with Guru
>with any other MC."
>
>agreed
>
>"I can't remember if I said this earlier in this post, but
>?uest is on the record that the albums lately have been
>intended to be serious and have a form of commentary to them.
>That's noble and fitting their style since they have always
>had awareness of their lyrical imagery and the sophistication
>of their music."
>
>^^^ we're saying the same thing. They're in a space where
>they can do an album like this. I'm happy for them just off
>the strength of that.
>
>"Are the recent albums quality? Yes."
>
>Why can't people get past this? Better, why do people feel
>they have to go past this? One of my favorite groups is still
>nice <end/story>
>
>"My attention span for holding a concept in my mind has shrunk
>over the years and unless that message is as compelling as
>Kendrick's To Pimp a Butterfly, I find it hard to mind any
>artist's message, even if it is worth sharing."
>
>ironic, I think it's the same concept as undun
>
>"...And Then You Shoot Your Cousin seems like a Terrance
>Malick movie where the high-concept of statement is likely
>really rich in depth and meaning, but unless the person
>viewing the film is rich in film knowledge and has the time
>and energy to focus, the message is going to be lost on them
>and that's what I feel with the last few albums."
>
>right, they made an album for adults

Don't get me wrong, I like that they're making thoughtful music which takes a bit to unpack, but for whatever reason I just couldn't get into ATYSYC. Maybe I needed a Cliff Notes to understand what the satire was attempting to address. I could have had a clearer jumping point to understand the project.

>
>a few questions?
>
>now that D' is back do you expect them to move more toward
>that Soulquarian sound?
>
>I think you're underestimating the Roots ability to continue
>that sound, or try to recreate that synergy had they chose
>
>of course there is no Dilla, but there are cats in the game
>that are comparable
>
>They moved on
>
>and to be honest
>
>I think Dilla would have to

I don't think the sounds of D' and The Roots are going to have much overlap going forward. I think D's album took the blueprint of Voodoo, in that D 'sampled' and aped the themes of the music of the artists who influenced him, which worked out well for him. (also, I am not up on D's recording process so I'm not sure if D's approach to Black Messiah was the same he took with Voodoo.)

15 said that Endgame is going to have the band go back to the illadelph halflife days and craft their beats based upon live music that the band made in the studio and then adding snippets to a sampler. The Instagram posts didn't sound like illadelph halflife, in that the beats were funkier.

So their approach will be the same, but I don't think The Roots are interested in making 'smooth' music, like D's, anymore. At least they haven't in the output from their Def Jam days.

I like that the band made a switch in their sound and for as talented and ambitious as The Roots are, I can't think that they would stay making music like they did over a decade ago. But hopefully Endgame will have a message, but also some moments which are just visceral and less heavy.

<--- Me when my head hits the pillow

http://jperiod.com/music/album-view/j.period-john-legend-the-roots-wake-up-radio/mixtapes/?/wakeup/#.WBX0t9IrLIU

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

I cant speak to the two after that

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"