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Subject: "Artists who distance themselves from their own music" Previous topic | Next topic
Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
Member since Dec 25th 2010
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Sun Jul-24-16 01:25 PM

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"Artists who distance themselves from their own music"


  

          

First examples that come to mind are Dave (De La Soul) with Buhloone Mindstate and Redman with Dare Iz A Darkside. I remember Dave saying he didn't enjoy recording that album and that they went too far left. Reggie said he was in a dark space during that time so he rarely performs that material. I also think the lack of fanfare has something to do with this. What are other examples of artists openly disliking albums in their discog?

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
Common - Electric Circus
Jul 24th 2016
1
RE: Common - Electric Circus
Jul 24th 2016
4
Where did Pos say BMS is their worst album?
Jul 24th 2016
5
pitchfork has quoted dave here saying he hates it {swipe]
Jul 24th 2016
7
I heard it on Combat Jack
Jul 24th 2016
9
I think this is true sometimes, but not all the time.
Jul 24th 2016
10
RE: Common - Electric Circus
Jul 24th 2016
6
RE: Common - Electric Circus
Jul 24th 2016
8
I can't recall exactly where I read/saw it.
Jul 24th 2016
11
      RE: I can't recall exactly where I read/saw it.
Jul 24th 2016
14
Tragedy about Common and EC... album was dopeness.
Jul 25th 2016
19
      RE: Tragedy about Common and EC... album was dopeness.
Jul 25th 2016
20
      Lol, I love both these songs...
Jul 25th 2016
21
           Ha. And I love I Got a Right Ya.
Jul 25th 2016
23
                LOL wow
Jul 25th 2016
24
      never thought about comparing to TPAB
Jul 27th 2016
40
Dr. Dre
Jul 24th 2016
2
That sucks. I'd like to hear that.
Jul 24th 2016
12
I honestly don't think Detox was ever made
Jul 25th 2016
17
      Nah he recorded a LOOOOT for Detox. We heard a good amount of it
Jul 25th 2016
26
      If I remember correctly, couple of Dre's beats from ...
Jul 25th 2016
27
           I recall Dre saying that he gave 50 most of the "Detox" beats he'd made....
Jul 26th 2016
32
                Yea I actually started typing that exact same thing ...
Jul 26th 2016
33
                     I thought a lot of the Detox beats ended up on Game's debut?
Jul 26th 2016
34
                     Yea that wouldn't surprise me, could definitely be the case...
Jul 27th 2016
36
                          "Higher" was really the only one meant for Detox. Story behind that
Jul 27th 2016
39
                     The biggest one, In da club, was for D12
Jul 27th 2016
38
      RE: I honestly don't think Detox was ever made
Jul 28th 2016
42
           He never had a finished product called Detox.
Jul 28th 2016
43
Redman was battling depression on that album
Jul 24th 2016
3
Yea this was always weird to me, though...
Jul 24th 2016
13
      I think that's a big reason why his output has been so sporadic
Jul 25th 2016
28
           Agreed.
Jul 25th 2016
29
Lenny Kravitz - Circus
Jul 25th 2016
15
Prince - Black Album & his overtly sexual material
Jul 25th 2016
16
Radiohead - Pablo honey (1st album)
Jul 25th 2016
18
that really sucks about Redman. THE RED TAPE was GOAT material
Jul 25th 2016
22
Canibus leavin rap to join The Army, Akinyele the strip club owner
Jul 25th 2016
25
Did Al Green stop doing his more risque stuff when he became a preacher?
Jul 26th 2016
30
certainly did.
Jul 27th 2016
37
Talib Kweli
Jul 26th 2016
31
it's like a new catch phrase...
Jul 26th 2016
35
what do you mean? i liked that song!
Jul 29th 2016
44
Tom Browne of Funkin For Jamaica fame leaving to be a pilot
Jul 27th 2016
41

Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Sun Jul-24-16 02:05 PM

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1. "Common - Electric Circus"
In response to Reply # 0
Sun Jul-24-16 02:09 PM by Brew

          

>First examples that come to mind are Dave (De La Soul) with
>Buhloone Mindstate and Redman with Dare Iz A Darkside. I
>remember Dave saying he didn't enjoy recording that album and
>that they went too far left.

I was shocked when I first read that, though once I gave it more thought it made sense. They definitely had a more serious/angry tone and edge on BMS that wasn't present previously, even on tracks with serious subject matter like My Brother is a Basehead. I know the Native Tongues' dissolution bothered them at the time, too. So it makes some sense, though I would've expected Pos to be the one to disown that album before I would've expected Dave to be. Pos came off SUUUUUPER angry on certain portions of that album. It resulted in some damn good lyrics tho. Haha.

My favorite De La album.


>Reggie said he was in a dark
>space during that time so he rarely performs that material. I
>also think the lack of fanfare has something to do with this.

Yea I remember reading somewhere that he was heavy into hallucinogens during the recording of this album so he hardly remembers a lot of it.


>What are other examples of artists openly disliking albums in
>their discog?

Common - EC. Though I suspect if you asked him now he may back off his previous negative comments about it a bit. Seems that most of that negative commentary about his discog came in the immediate aftermath, when I think even a lot of the people who praise it now hadn't really come to understand it as an album yet.

I always liked EC but also understood why a lot of people couldn't groove with it. It bothered me that Comm denounced it like he did though. It's one thing to move on from it but I still don't think he should've felt like he needed to explain it away and distance himself from it like he did. He was in a different space mentally, clearly, and that reflected on the album. It resulted in a disjointed effort but at the very least he should've stood by his artistic process and the risks he took, especially coming off the success of Like Water for Chocolate; he could've just made a replica of LWFC and guaranteed himself a gold album (which I am psyched that he didn't do). Better to progress and miss than stay stagnant just to sell records.

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bills
Member since Feb 17th 2007
1199 posts
Sun Jul-24-16 06:30 PM

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4. "RE: Common - Electric Circus"
In response to Reply # 1


          

>>First examples that come to mind are Dave (De La Soul) with
>>Buhloone Mindstate and Redman with Dare Iz A Darkside. I
>>remember Dave saying he didn't enjoy recording that album
>and
>>that they went too far left.
>
>I was shocked when I first read that, though once I gave it
>more thought it made sense. They definitely had a more
>serious/angry tone and edge on BMS that wasn't present
>previously, even on tracks with serious subject matter like My
>Brother is a Basehead. I know the Native Tongues' dissolution
>bothered them at the time, too. So it makes some sense, though
>I would've expected Pos to be the one to disown that album
>before I would've expected Dave to be. Pos came off SUUUUUPER
>angry on certain portions of that album. It resulted in some
>damn good lyrics tho. Haha.
>
>My favorite De La album.
>
Mine too, by a long shot. And actually, in recent interviews Dave is by far the most diplomatic about everything, including "Me, Myself & I", but Pos still says BMS is De La's worst album.

>Common - EC. Though I suspect if you asked him now he may back
>off his previous negative comments about it a bit.
You know, Common will always be a favorite of mine off the strength of his career up until Finding Forever, but as far as thoughtful emcees go, dude gives like the least informative interviews ever. It always feels like he's saying what he should say, rather than what he thinks.

EC is my favorite Common album, because he tapped into some stuff I'm really into...so it always saddens me when artists disown the more risky projects that don't pay off.

Seems that
>most of that negative commentary about his discog came in the
>immediate aftermath, when I think even a lot of the people who
>praise it now hadn't really come to understand it as an album
>yet.
>
>I always liked EC but also understood why a lot of people
>couldn't groove with it. It bothered me that Comm denounced it
>like he did though. It's one thing to move on from it but I
>still don't think he should've felt like he needed to explain
>it away and distance himself from it like he did. He was in a
>different space mentally, clearly, and that reflected on the
>album. It resulted in a disjointed effort but at the very
>least he should've stood by his artistic process and the risks
>he took, especially coming off the success of Like Water for
>Chocolate; he could've just made a replica of LWFC and
>guaranteed himself a gold album (which I am psyched that he
>didn't do). Better to progress and miss than stay stagnant
>just to sell records.

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
Member since Dec 25th 2010
16580 posts
Sun Jul-24-16 06:33 PM

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5. "Where did Pos say BMS is their worst album?"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

******************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

Geto Boys, Poison Clan, UGK, Eightball & MJG, OutKast, Goodie Mob

  

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howardlloyd
Member since Jan 18th 2007
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Sun Jul-24-16 07:33 PM

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7. "pitchfork has quoted dave here saying he hates it {swipe]"
In response to Reply # 5


  

          


http://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/22043-buhloone-mindstate/

De La Soul's knotty and brilliant third album is a fever dream of shared memories, historical touchstones, geographical landmarks, first-person pronouns and six feet-deep self­-actualizations.

In 1972, Nikki Giovanni wrote a lovely poem by the name of “Ego­ Tripping (there may be a reason).” Inspired by a trip to Africa, it was an anthropological toast to black feminine pride and drew strength from history, geography and, ultimately, impenetrability: “I am so perfect, so divine, so ethereal, so surreal/I cannot be comprehended except by my permission.”

It’s not entirely clear that the Long Island trio De La Soul had this poem on their mind specifically when, in 1993, they recorded their knotty and brilliant third album, Buhloone Mindstate. “Ego Trippin’ (Part Two)” was the album’s second single, but that title was by all accounts a hand-me-down from rap’s earliest eccentrics the Ultramagnetic MC’s, who recorded their own “Ego Tripping” in 1986. It’s possible that the De La MCs Posdnuos and Trugoy the Dove and DJ Maseo recorded their “Ego” without ever knowing of Ms. Giovanni’s existence—hip hop memory has always been shallower than its actual roots often demand. In any case, it’s hard not to read Buhloone as a direct successor to the OG “Trippin’”—a fever dream of shared memories, historical touchstones, geographical landmarks, first person pronouns, and six feet deep self-­actualizations. It's also a notoriously and proudly ­inaccessible project. “Fuck being hard, Posdnuos is complicated” has become its unofficial tagline in part because it was one of but a few direct statements made in an otherwise indecipherable web of interlocking wordplay.

The De La catalog had always been littered with linguistic in-­jokes and secret passwords, but the broad stroke mythology was fairly straightforward prior to Buhloone. Check any number of the nth-anniversary reviews that practically write themselves today: Their 1989 debut, 3 Feet High & Rising, was an exercise in fluorescent sampledelic hippie rap, conceived or at least marketed as an antidote to all the tough guy posturing that had previously come to define hip-­hop. The follow up, De La Soul Is Dead, was the reaction to that reaction. The group recanted their flower child ways and knuckled the fuck up. They were weirdoes to be certain, but these lunchroom identity narratives—The Peace Loving Hippies Have Arrived; The Peace Loving Hippies Strike Back at the Folks Calling Them Peace Loving Hippies­—provided an anchor for that weirdness. Buhloone was just weird, lost in the woods. There is no decoding this album; you can only hope to inflate its context.

So here it goes: Buhloone Mindstate came at a time when De La’s career was hanging in the balance. ...is Dead was a success by both critical and commercial standards but less so than the dominant 3 Feet. Their Native Tongues collective­—an amorphous, ever­-growing posse comprised of A Tribe Called Quest, the Jungle Brothers, and basically every other rapper to ever rock a leather medallion at the dawn of the ’90s—was falling apart in the way adolescent social circles typically dissolve with time. Dr. Dre’s genre realigning gangsta opus The Chronic had just dropped. Enter the Wu-Tang was on its way. But rather than chasing trends or (worse still) pushing back against them with a grown-up scowl, they embraced their fate as outsiders. It was a case of personal liberation via free fall. They buried themselves in themselves.

“This time out, the peace of mind was cool,” Pos told Vibe in 1993. “We dealt with the stuff we had to deal with on the second record... we didn’t care; we said, ‘Let’s go back to ‘Buggin’ Out.’” “Buggin’ Out” meant bouncing off the walls in a narrow space. Songs might stop mid-verse; verses felt like they might never end at all. The production was deceptively accessible, less chaotic and warmer than their earlier stuff and drawing a bit from the jazz-rap pool that Tribe and Gang Starr had been dabbling but without any of the explicit nostalgia. It’s a much shorter album than its overstuffed skit-heavy predecessors too, clocking in at under 50 minutes with just ten full rap songs ­and yet is crammed with more information than ever before. It’s never light but always loose. “We had so much fun in the studio creating it,” Pos continues in the same interview. “The mistakes we made on this album? We left them in, ’cause they sounded cool.” Cue Nikki: “I am so hip even my errors are correct.”

It didn’t have to be quite so bugged, though. The first movement of Buhloone hints at a more coherent concept album. The intro incantation of “It might blow up but it won’t go pop.” is clever but to the point, on some “No Sell Out” shit. And while the three songs that follow were definitely written from the advanced De La code book—“I hit the shines but I’m shoeing it now/‘Member when the floor model had a spine? Well it’s all bent over/A day­glo nigga gets the red doormat/It’s a roller coaster when your shit’s burnt toast” laments Dove—they also occupy a clear thematic territory, navigating industry racism and the pitfalls of fame.

But then just as those ideas start to coagulate the group’s focus turns outward. They turn their mics off and make room for a somber five minute solo track from long time James Brown saxophonist Maceo Parker. Then comes a short freestyle from the Japanese rap trio Scha Dara Parr, who don’t utter a word of English until they chant “Yes yes y’all we don't stop” right before being tagged out by a lo-­fi live dub of Bronx old schooler Tricky Tee shouting about Long Island.

And just like that the whole album cracks open, giving way to a full­-on psychedelic-egotistical history lesson. While Ms. Giovanni traced the full African American diaspora, De La narrows in on its one corner that has, for better or worse, come to most visibly represent it over the past four decades of­ hip hop music. Their Sahara was the South Bronx, their Noah was Kool Herc, their precious jewels were the hand me down tape recordings of late ’70s and early ’80s rap concerts funneled eastbound to the Long Island suburb of Amityville that they called home. (Pos’ personal background is even more tangled than than just the reels on his cassettes here—when he was still in elementary school his family was forced out to LI after their South Bronx apartment was burnt down by one of the many crooked landlords who would leave the borough in ruin while inadvertently setting the stage for the most important American cultural movement of the 20th century. You can hear Pos’ own take on these events in the opening verse of the gorgeous Michael Jackson-­flipping “Breakadawn.” His telling also involves catscans and stew.)

Though hip hop’s absolute commercial peak wouldn’t come for a few more years, it was already a global, multimillion dollar industry by 1993. And as is frequently the case with global, multimillion dollar industries it had already begun to lose sight of its cultural origins. Rappers who were once household names to the small cadre of first-wave, five borough hip hop heads had become ancient history in the wake of the Def Jam explosion. To many of the kids buying De La Soul tapes, particularly those outside of the culture for whom 3 Feet’s hippiedom provided an easy point of entry, Grandmaster Caz or Melle Mel might as well have been Fats Waller. It would’ve meant something had De La just said their names. And they did do that. But they also showed a deeper spiritual connection to the old school, foregrounding the language and stylistic tics of their predecessors. If you spend enough time listening to rap music, your brain will break, and all of your thoughts will be colored within the lines of the many raps you’ve memorized.

I think a little bit of that was happening on Buhloone. Nearly every bar on the record is a triple folded origami reference to a rap verse from a bygone era. Disembodied Busy Bee routines dialogue with repurposed Joeski Love adlibs. On the 12” only “Ego Trippin’ (Part 3),” Pos explains: “My style was created from the tapes of boys and girls/Who had the second generation dubs of crews at Harlem World.” (For further B-side breadcrumbs check the rare, supplemental promo EP Clear Lake Audiotorium where they actually rocked alongside Caz, Prince Whipper Whip of the Fantastic Five, and LA Sunshine of the Treacherous Three on the posse cut “Stix & Stonz.”)

And however tethered they were to those old-school routines this was no revival act. There was a perpetual newness bursting out of their cadences. Pos in particular was peaking here, rocking a sharp-elbowed, crisply enunciated and instinctively avant-garde flow that had few stylistic precedents. Sometimes he’d stilt his bars, leaving half measures hollow or letting sparred ad-libs from guests like Biz Markie and Shorty No Mas fill in the blanks. Elsewhere he would ramble on for bars and bars without even hitting a single identifiable rhyme. I’ve long believed that the greatest rappers—from T La Rock to 2Pac to Gucci Mane—were the ones who rapped and wrote like they needed to get every last thought they’ve ever had committed to tape. Pos’ style here gives shape to that sense of urgency.

At times that stream-of-consciousness gives way to straight-up consciousness. Check the album’s emotional centerpiece “I Am I Be,” a pageant of self­-definition that draws Pos back down to earth for a minute to paint the record industry as a modern-day slave system and to shout out his daughter and late mother by name. Dove, on the other hand, stays in the abstract, letting trees fall for ink playgrounds and spilling H20 drops, but does so with such sentimentality that you would swear he was speaking simply. “This record flowed on feeling, on emotions.” Pos told Vibe. “I listen to it now and think ‘Wow we weren’t even thinking of saying this or that.’ It’s like a jigsaw puzzle.” This is perhaps the best way to approach Buhloone as a listener, too. If you roll with the stikabushes and absorb all the zoas, and dodge every punk squid, the album’s depths reveal themselves with time. Let it all go over your head and it will come back around and hit you in the heart.

Unsurprisingly mainstream audiences did not show Buhloone the patience it demands upon its release. It did not go pop; it did not blow up. It fared well critically—four-and-a-half mics in the Source, #8 on the Village Voice’s Pazz & Jop critics poll —and was embraced by diehards but was basically dead-on-arrival commercially. It remains a bit of a favorite amongst critics to this day, but isn’t nearly as adored as the more accessible De La albums. When it does get a mention, its inherent and remarkable weirdness is usually brushed over in favor of parroting the basic Won’t Go Pop thesis.

Even the group themselves has seemed baffled by the project in retrospect and reluctant to stand behind the strength of their own gibberish. On the follow up, Stakes Is High, they would take a sharp turn towards conservatism in both form and content, fleshing out many of the concerns about the state of hip hop that had only obliquely addressed on Buhloone and in the most literal terms possible. “We being real blatant now,” Mase told Rap Pages at the time of its 1996 release. “No more symbolism, no more beating around the bush, no more talking over people’s heads in a language we only understand.” In a 2005 interview with Allhiphop.com, Dove—having long since formally rechristened himself as just “Dave”—dismissed the bug outs of Buhloone even more directly: “Personally, I hated Buhloone Mindstate... I think we were just a little too creative.”

But appropriately enough, Buhloone lives on in the subconscious of modern day hip-hop. You can hear specks of its style in Kendrick’s anxiety of representation, in Chance’s responsible whimsy, in Earl Sweatshirt’s ADD introspection, in Young Thug’s cascading chatter, and in Big Sean’s run-on sentences. It’s unlikely that all or even many of these artists have even heard the record—in part because it, like every ’90s De La album, remains woefully unavailable for streaming or legal download—but again, sometimes influence is ephemeral. And hip hop’s memory is still out of focus. It cannot be comprehended.

http://howardlloyd.bandcamp.com

  

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bills
Member since Feb 17th 2007
1199 posts
Sun Jul-24-16 08:49 PM

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9. "I heard it on Combat Jack"
In response to Reply # 5


          

early on in the Anonymous Nobody promo.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Sun Jul-24-16 09:28 PM

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10. "I think this is true sometimes, but not all the time."
In response to Reply # 4


          

>You know, Common will always be a favorite of mine off the
>strength of his career up until Finding Forever, but as far as
>thoughtful emcees go, dude gives like the least informative
>interviews ever. It always feels like he's saying what he
>should say, rather than what he thinks.

I do think that can be true depending on what he's being interviewed for. When he's talking to people interviewing him more for movie promotion or something other than his rap career, he can sound forced and even uncomfortable. But being that he's my favorite MC (like you, mostly for his career up to FF, though I appreciate a lot of his later work (that's another conversation), I've watched a TON of interviews with him where he sounds natural and shows plenty of personality and seems natural. I think that's more often the case but again I watch every interview I find with him so I probably have more of a sample size (that's an assumption, of course). Just my opinion tho.


>EC is my favorite Common album, because he tapped into some
>stuff I'm really into...so it always saddens me when artists
>disown the more risky projects that don't pay off.

It's not my favorite Comm album but I definitely loved it at the time and love it more now, despite its shortcomings, for those reasons and more.

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"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
Member since Dec 25th 2010
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Sun Jul-24-16 07:32 PM

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6. "RE: Common - Electric Circus"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

>My favorite De La album.
>

Second only to DLSID. Great album.

>Common - EC. Though I suspect if you asked him now he may back
>off his previous negative comments about it a bit. Seems that
>most of that negative commentary about his discog came in the
>immediate aftermath, when I think even a lot of the people who
>praise it now hadn't really come to understand it as an album
>yet.
>
>I always liked EC but also understood why a lot of people
>couldn't groove with it. It bothered me that Comm denounced it
>like he did though. It's one thing to move on from it but I
>still don't think he should've felt like he needed to explain
>it away and distance himself from it like he did. He was in a
>different space mentally, clearly, and that reflected on the
>album. It resulted in a disjointed effort but at the very
>least he should've stood by his artistic process and the risks
>he took, especially coming off the success of Like Water for
>Chocolate; he could've just made a replica of LWFC and
>guaranteed himself a gold album (which I am psyched that he
>didn't do). Better to progress and miss than stay stagnant
>just to sell records.

What did Common say about EC?

******************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

Geto Boys, Poison Clan, UGK, Eightball & MJG, OutKast, Goodie Mob

  

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Austin
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Sun Jul-24-16 08:30 PM

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8. "RE: Common - Electric Circus"
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

I think it has more to do with what Common *didn't* say in the aftermath of Electric Circus. The quick creative regression and rejection of previous collaborators (except Dilla) on Be says all it needs to say, really.


"I wasn't sure if I was lost or running away again. . ."

http://austinato.bandcamp.com

http://www.discogs.com/lists/Favorites-of-2016/269401

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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11. "I can't recall exactly where I read/saw it."
In response to Reply # 6


          

>What did Common say about EC?

But in promotion of Be he did some interviews where I remember him speaking sort of lukewarmly about that album. Think he mentioned how he was in a different head space at the time and is glad he moved on from that style, etc. He wasn't denouncing it quite as viciously as De La did BMS but he definitely hinted at the fact that he thought he went too far left with it.

He even rhymed about it a few times, though again it wasn't necessarily an Eminem "Relapse" thing where he totally bad-talked it. One example is "they say the crotchet pants and the sweater was wack / seen 'The Corner' now they say that n****'s back" and shit like that.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
Member since Dec 25th 2010
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Sun Jul-24-16 10:08 PM

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14. "RE: I can't recall exactly where I read/saw it."
In response to Reply # 11


  

          

Now that you mentioned it I do remember that. Think it was in XXL mag too

******************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

Geto Boys, Poison Clan, UGK, Eightball & MJG, OutKast, Goodie Mob

  

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Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
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Mon Jul-25-16 10:04 AM

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19. "Tragedy about Common and EC... album was dopeness."
In response to Reply # 1


          

I still fuck with that one hard.
It wasn't even really all that "left"
outside of a couple of songs. Imo,
it was the TPAB before TPAB. TPAB
incorporates all these Black music
traditions, and EC did a lot of that
while also delving into some other
shit such as New Wave, but I even like
that joint. EC was really fresh
and creative, and if I could compare
it to anything, it would be a Parliament/
Funkadelic album. I wish he would've
kept going in that direction and
refined that style a bit more. He
should be more ashamed of UMC than
anything.

~
~
~
~
~
Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

  

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Brew
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20. "RE: Tragedy about Common and EC... album was dopeness."
In response to Reply # 19
Mon Jul-25-16 11:13 AM by Brew

          

>I still fuck with that one hard.
>It wasn't even really all that "left"
>outside of a couple of songs.

Hindsight's 20/20. I loved and still love that album, too, but at the TIME it was certainly really left of what hip-hop was doing and even more specifically, was a trillion miles left of what Common had done up to that point. So I get your point, hearing it today, it doesn't sound so risky or different. But in the context of what Common had done up to that point, and the landscape of 2002 in general, it was definitely a risky record and one that pushed the envelope pretty far left from what we were used to hearing.


>Imo,
>it was the TPAB before TPAB. TPAB
>incorporates all these Black music
>traditions, and EC did a lot of that
>while also delving into some other
>shit such as New Wave, but I even like
>that joint.

That actually remains one of my top 3 on that album. I love that song.


>EC was really fresh
>and creative, and if I could compare
>it to anything, it would be a Parliament/
>Funkadelic album. I wish he would've
>kept going in that direction and
>refined that style a bit more.

Yea I do wish he explored it a little more as well. Refined is the right word. While I love that album it still has some significant shortcomings like Jimi Was a Rock Star. That shit was a mess. As was Electric Wire Hustle Flower.


>He
>should be more ashamed of UMC than
>anything.

Agreed. Though he and everyone seem to just act like that album never happened at all, which I'm fine with. Sort of the same thing. Not talking about it is better than harping on how awful it was, IMO, because the latter requires actually talking about it. Haha.

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Boogie Stimuli
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21. "Lol, I love both these songs..."
In response to Reply # 20


          

>Yea I do wish he explored it a little more as well. Refined is
>the right word. While I love that album it still has some
>significant shortcomings like Jimi Was a Rock Star. That shit
>was a mess. As was Electric Wire Hustle Flower.
>


I don't even have a word for "Jimi Was A Rock Star"
Something was conjured during that song. I can't
even speak on it.
I love EWHF as well. The only song I'd get rid of is
"I Got A Right Ta". It would literally be a perfect
album for me without that one song.

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Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

  

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Brew
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23. "Ha. And I love I Got a Right Ya."
In response to Reply # 21


          

>I don't even have a word for "Jimi Was A Rock Star"
>Something was conjured during that song. I can't
>even speak on it.
>I love EWHF as well. The only song I'd get rid of is
>"I Got A Right Ta". It would literally be a perfect
>album for me without that one song.

I know people feel like it doesn't jive with the rest of the album but I don't see it that way. If there's any song that doesn't fit the overall sound of the album it's "The Hustle" but that's one of my favorite songs on the joint as well.

I just love the lyricism on I Got a Right Ta.

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Boogie Stimuli
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24. "LOL wow"
In response to Reply # 23


          

I actually agree about The Hustle not necessarily
fitting in with the rest of the album, because it's
basically the one song on the album that you would
expect from Common at that point lol... but it's
so dope that I wouldn't even mind it in the middle
of a Mars Volta album.

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LeroyBumpkin
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40. "never thought about comparing to TPAB"
In response to Reply # 19


  

          

Interesting.

https://digife.com

  

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fatboybrandon
Member since May 15th 2010
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2. "Dr. Dre"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

he said recently on Big Boy's show he doesn't listen to The Chronic. Detox is a pretty good example of any artist distancing themselves from their own music considering how long that damn thing has been shelved.

___________________
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Brew
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12. "That sucks. I'd like to hear that."
In response to Reply # 2


          

>he said recently on Big Boy's show he doesn't listen to The
>Chronic.

Maybe that's why "Compton" was so .... meh. Haha. He should def be listening to "The Chronic" to remind himself about how to be funky.

That said, saying "I don't listen to The Chronic anymore" and denouncing it as a work of art are two different things, I think.

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Boogie Stimuli
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17. "I honestly don't think Detox was ever made"
In response to Reply # 2


          

I think he leaked a couple of tracks, trying
to figure out a direction to go in that would
be hittin to the young folks, but he never
came up with anything that evoked the kind
of reaction he wanted, so he gave up and just
made "Compton" his final album.
My speculation is that "Compton" was the shit
he was working on for Detox. He just knew
that shit wasn't good enough to come out as Detox.
He was saving face and avoiding embarrassment.

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-DJ R-Tistic-
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26. "Nah he recorded a LOOOOT for Detox. We heard a good amount of it"
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

I know songs like "Outta control" the original version, "Higher" that Game used, and a few other tracks from that era were originally made for Detox. The songs for "Compton" came after he had basically given up on Detox...hence why they sound so trendy. That modern Trap sound wasn't even around last decade, with the sonics that were used on this album. You are right about him dropping test singles, and seeing that the response was lukewarm, though

------------------------------

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Brew
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27. "If I remember correctly, couple of Dre's beats from ..."
In response to Reply # 26


          

Get Rich or Die Tryin' were Detox "scraps" (at the time) too. "If I Can't" comes to mind specifically, but I think "Heat" and maybe "Back Down" were too.

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mrhood75
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32. "I recall Dre saying that he gave 50 most of the "Detox" beats he'd made...."
In response to Reply # 27


  

          

...in order to make GRODT. I always figured that as soon as that happened, it spelled the end of Detox ever coming out, since he was basically restarting the creative process from there. I dunno though, I could be wrong...

-----------------

www.albumism.com

Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

https://www.mixcloud.com/returntozero/

  

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Brew
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33. "Yea I actually started typing that exact same thing ..."
In response to Reply # 32
Tue Jul-26-16 08:17 PM by Brew

          

but then I wiki'd the production credits and it looks like Dre only did 4 beats. Which in and of itself is kinda shocking (I for some reason thought he did about half the album) but also would lead me to believe he didn't give 50 ALL of the Detox beats...but then again I suppose he could've offered a bunch more to him that ultimately ended up on the cutting room floor. Who knows.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Get_Rich_or_Die_Tryin%27#Track_listing

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Anonymous
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Tue Jul-26-16 09:23 PM

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34. "I thought a lot of the Detox beats ended up on Game's debut?"
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

  

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Brew
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36. "Yea that wouldn't surprise me, could definitely be the case..."
In response to Reply # 34


          

I never personally saw that but it doesn't shock me if indeed you're right.

But I know for sure that I read back when Get Rich.. was release that a few, if not all, of Dre's beats for that album were Detox "scraps". The only one I'm questioning is "In Da Club" because I feel like they made that song from scratch when they got in the studio. Not sure though.

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-DJ R-Tistic-
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39. ""Higher" was really the only one meant for Detox. Story behind that"
In response to Reply # 36


  

          

is that 50 did the original hook for "Higher" but Game didn't care for it. So Dre basically re-did the beat and created "Outta control," which is where 50 used that hook that he had originally made for "Higher."

They had originally said "How we do" was something he had in his vault since the 80's, just to build hype around it, but that wasn't true.

------------------------------

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-DJ R-Tistic-
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38. "The biggest one, In da club, was for D12"
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

------------------------------

50+ FREE Mixes on www.DJR-Tistic.com!

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double 0
Member since Nov 17th 2004
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42. "RE: I honestly don't think Detox was ever made"
In response to Reply # 17


          

There is a decade+ of detox songs..

Him and Just Blaze might've damn near made a whole albums worth of beats for it alone

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

  

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Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
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43. "He never had a finished product called Detox."
In response to Reply # 42


          

Sure, he was making music tho.

The album never existed as far as
I'm concerned.

~
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Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

  

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Garhart Poppwell
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3. "Redman was battling depression on that album"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

so I see why he doesn't perform anything off it even though it went gold.

Andre 3ooo does this continuously, he's one of those artists that's not really thinking a lot about music he's done already

__________________________________________
CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
------------------------------------
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Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

  

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Brew
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13. "Yea this was always weird to me, though..."
In response to Reply # 3


          

>Andre 3ooo does this continuously, he's one of those artists
>that's not really thinking a lot about music he's done
>already

I think in Dre's case it's worked out alright because his ability to recognize the past as the past has allowed him to progress and age more gracefully than a lot of artists. I just wish he wasn't so vehement about how he feels about his past work sometimes.

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Garhart Poppwell
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28. "I think that's a big reason why his output has been so sporadic"
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

but it probably served him well because he doesn't have a boatload of shitty music floating around.

__________________________________________
CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
------------------------------------
Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

  

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Brew
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29. "Agreed."
In response to Reply # 28


          

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Boogie Stimuli
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15. "Lenny Kravitz - Circus"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Also due to going through a dark place

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Boogie Stimuli
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16. "Prince - Black Album & his overtly sexual material"
In response to Reply # 0


          

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c71
Member since Jan 15th 2008
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18. "Radiohead - Pablo honey (1st album)"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Red Hot Chili Peppers - don't think they play too much of their 80's material, accept for maybe something off of "Mother's Milk" (doubt even that). When John came back, he didn't want to play anything off of the album "One hot minute" that they made with Dave Navarro in '94.


Paul Westerberg - here's his impression what comes to mind when he was reminded of some of his albums (not surprising since he with the Replacements was big on just being "reckless" about his overall approach as opposed to calculating/careful):


Come Feel Me Tremble (2003) “I can’t even think what’s on it. Is that the one with ‘Soldier of Misfortune’ and that s**t? ‘My Daydream’ is a good song.”

Folker (2004): “Every one of these records makes me think of someone. I thought ‘Jingle’ was kinda good. I can’t remember any of the other songs because they’re s**t. I’ve learned that there’s a reason you don’t remember the ones you’ve forgotten.”

Open Season OST (2006): “Money. I had to pay the f**king rent on the house. People think I’m rich but I owe more money than anybody realizes. You take Hollywood’s money and you eat Hollywood’s s**t. They ain’t called me back since.”


http://www.spin.com/2016/03/paul-westerberg-i-dont-cares-replacements-interview/

  

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Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
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Mon Jul-25-16 11:44 AM

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22. "that really sucks about Redman. THE RED TAPE was GOAT material"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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fatboybrandon
Member since May 15th 2010
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25. "Canibus leavin rap to join The Army, Akinyele the strip club owner"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

plus Izzy Ice from Da King & I dropping a classic then going on to run an internet company. I'm still waitin to hear him and Majesty drop some new or unreleased material!

and peace to all the beautiful females of Hip Hop making the choice to go raise their newborn kids instead. I was mad before when my favorites were no longer making records but now I understand better.

___________________
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Buddy_Gilapagos
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30. "Did Al Green stop doing his more risque stuff when he became a preacher?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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MISTA MONOTONE
Member since Jan 30th 2004
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37. "certainly did."
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

he eased back into it by letting the audience sing the lyrics.

------------------------------------------
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Amritsar
Member since Jan 18th 2008
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31. "Talib Kweli "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

it was all downhill after "Waiting for the DJ" lmao

  

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Anonymous
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Tue Jul-26-16 09:24 PM

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35. "it's like a new catch phrase..."
In response to Reply # 31


  

          

...That no one is going to use.

  

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Brotha Sun
Member since Dec 31st 2009
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Fri Jul-29-16 08:20 AM

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44. "what do you mean? i liked that song!"
In response to Reply # 31


          

"They used to call me Baby Luke....but now? The whole damn 2 Liiiive Crew."

  

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fatboybrandon
Member since May 15th 2010
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Wed Jul-27-16 05:44 PM

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41. "Tom Browne of Funkin For Jamaica fame leaving to be a pilot "
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Jul-27-16 05:45 PM by fatboybrandon

  

          

He's got a beautiful song out recently though called Daydreaming with a talented Filipina vocalist http://blacksciencenetwork.com/m/aqb_news/view/Tom-Browne-studied-physics-and-now-teaches-youth-to-fly

Another funky legend Steve Arrington departed for awhile to another profession but has been back at it lately.

___________________
cratesofjr.blogspot.com. If you think you'll get out alive, you're dreaming.

  

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