1) meek has a record with drake, it is a 'hit' on the hot 100. meek subsequently has #1 album in the country two weeks in a row.

2) at some point in the last week and a half, meek denounces drake because it came to his attention that many of his most popular songs/appearances over the last 8 months have been 'ghostwritten' by an unknown rapper named, quentin miller.

3) one of many 'reference tracks' for notable drake songs of the last 8 months is leaked to funkmaster flex by someone in OVO, fully corroborating meek mill's accusations.

4) drake promptly releases two diss tracks aimed at meek mill, his personal life, etc.

---STOP---

this is the point in this encounter where i'm left scratching my head:

what did drake personally diss meek for again, exactly?

the 'reference tracks' leaked.
everything meek mill said was proven and backed with evidence.

drake then responded by going on a rap tirade toward meek, yet not addressing the (now proven) allegation that he didn't write xyz songs.

so again, what exactly did drake diss meek mill for?

...for exposing him?

and somehow he's the winner out of all of this? sheesh.

I got torched something serious for suggesting the same points that you mentioned, so I bow out, because it's obvious cats live in a different universe than I do.

Even got called a Meek stan for saying Meek's "technically" the better rapper ALTHOUGH I said that I didn't like EITHER of their diss tracks...

Let's see where this one goes...

This whole situation reminds me of when Canibus battled LL. I won't front that it was great to hear LL regain his verve with Ripper Strikes Back, but cats was acting like Canibus didn't have some hot lines or rip LL a new one in his tracks. And, I think it SIMPLY had to do with LL having a larger fanbase to overpower the voice of Canibus' fans.

If 'Bus didn't make all the bad career decisions and had maintained a decent presence above the underground, the "supposed" victor of that one might have been revisited with a different outcome later on.

But, with Canibus basically self-imploding shortly thereafter, that's just something else for cats to use when saying LL won that one.

Come to grips with the fact that most OKP's are of the Nut Hugger lineage, so, if you' re not part of the little cliques that exist 'round here, your posts will probably tank like Souljaboy's album sales.

remember mobb deep - clap?

ok, imagine if jay HADN'T dissed prodigy on 'the takeover' and mobb deep just released 'clap' in response to the summer jam picture being flashed on screen.

i can't imagine anybody 'winning' any sort of engagement by catching feelings and desperately trying to save face via ad-hominem after being exposed in such fashion.

imo, drake's best move would have been saying something to the effect of:

"i'm an entertainer, first and foremost. i often collaborate with many producers, rappers to generate the best output i possibly can for my fans. i can understand if some people are disappointed that i don't dictate every creative aspect of my art solely by myself, but i like to think the end result justifies the means. p.s. congratulations to meek mill on his recent accomplishments"

something like that would have completely defused the situation.

and imo, meek shouldn't even have responded in light of the 'reference tracks' leaking to the public.

references
specifically RICO
there were a couple lines that made it to drakes verse but the rest was more than likely written by aubrey
the problem is meek jumped out the window and said drake doesnt write
drake does write
thats like telling everyone someone snitched and got someone locked up because they were in a police station

______________________________________

Navem nu, cuando sol
Tutu nu, vondo nos nu
Vita em, no continous non
Nos nu ekta nos sepe ta, amen

When the sun shades the ship
We sweat and life is not safe
To swim or to touch not
When we unite we hedge amen

and quentin miller was providing exactly that for a fee to drake.

changing a few words from the reference track is really a moot point.

That's the thing; Meek made it seem like Drake was Lil Kim. He wasn't written ALL of his songs, but he writes.

quentin didn't get a credit on 'know yourself'.

Meek Mill uses that same cadence on that song too. Maybe Meek sent the track to Drake with his verse already on it and QM wrote a verse to it, and Drake kept the lines he liked and re-wrote other shit.

The one that has me a little uneasy is "Know Yourself." Cuz that's such a big song, like probably top 10 of his catalog and its main parts are written by another dude.

I wanna know why these refence tracks are only 30-45 seconds long. If you can get that much of a song, why can't you get the whole reference track.

___________________________
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everybody does it

it's not a big deal

etc...

then why try to deny it

QM replied and tried to distance himself from the accusations

and Drake never directly addressed it

i.e. if it's not that big of a deal, if everybody's doing it

the reply shoulda been, yeah so.

why's Drake mad?

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

People like Drake because he's popular and they feel they are supposed to like what's hot.

The reasons for their liking him end there.

Honestly, take it another step...not only does he suck, he doesn't even write the shit that sucks.

Thats false..

Drake makes songs people like

A Lot...

they don't care how the bread was made though..

you can maybe blame it on Kanye... but most ppl are purists and have grown up.

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

Yes...people like his songs a lot...even though they suck.

But that is separate from MCing skill, which he doesn't have regardless of what you've made yourself believe.

Faulting an MC for using ghostwriters is attacking their skill as an MC and is unrelated to the "hit songs" they put out.

Many of you industry cats think they're the same thing.

The industry is built on songs... Not virtuoso musicians.. Its awesome when someone can play piano REALLY REALLY well and it shows in their live performance...

But if you cannot craft a song... Shit dont matter how well that piano is played.. The skill of MCing is a component not the totality

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

______________________________________________________________
http://twitter.com/Gedi

"This is your world. Shape it or someone else will." - Gary Lew

So what's your point

Every post he makes or answers to is about Industry 101 for the most part. That's probably where the disconnect is between these posts.

__________________________________________
CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
------------------------------------
Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

I am quite far.... 100%

but in terms of okp I try to play level headed "industry" talk... cuz im not gonna gossip..

in the end... I want hip hop to be great... I want that shit to be in the pantheon of all other american artforms.. I want my old heads like Jeff Barry and Barry Mann & Cynthia Weil to respect it from a songwriting perspective and content perspective..

Like we should WANT Jay & Em & Run DMC etc.. in the Songwriting Hall Of Fame...

Hip Hop is 40 years old.. its far removed from its roots just like Rock/Blues, Country and every other genre before it.. We cant put the genie back in the bottle..

So I say all that to say.... all greats.. are made up of a massive team effort... be it co-writers, co-producers etc.... sometimes these arbitrary rules keep some of our heroes from continuing to make a great living.. whereas classic rockers out here still caking..

Pop star is not a bad term to me.. if you can make it I want all the rappers I enjoy to become pop stars..

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

__________________________________________
CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
------------------------------------
Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

"just like Rock/Blues, Country and every other genre before it.. We cant put the genie back in the bottle..

So I say all that to say.... all greats.. are made up of a massive team effort... be it co-writers, co-producers etc.... sometimes these arbitrary rules keep some of our heroes from continuing to make a great living.. whereas classic rockers out here still caking..

Pop star is not a bad term to me.. if you can make it I want all the rappers I enjoy to become pop stars.."

IRT the parallels of rock n roll vs hip-hop

I initally noticed it when our parents were quick to jump up and discredit it, turn that noise off, etc...

strange they couldn't see that's exactly what their parents did when rock n roll broke

anyway, I'm not sure if you've played out your analogy

but I've often thought to myself, in the context of those parallels, if I had to compare a moment in rock n roll to where we are now in hip-hop

I'd say we're in the glam rock/hair band phase

that is to say, most of the music that's being commercialized is shyte

and there won't be those nostalgia opportunities in the future for the majority of the artists that have been so prevalent the last decade or so

it's disposable, zero impact, and I'd expect there to be alot of 1 hit wonders that disappear

of course there are some bands that had staying power like motley crue

and some good rock music like metallica during that same period

but I think you get my point

which has me very hyped for whatever it is that may be coming that we can't see, i.e. Nirvana

that will get us back to some real music

I appreciate your insider perspective

but I don't think anything you've offered to this point has resolved any of the issues

or absolved anybody on the inside for some responsibility in manufacturing this shyte

in fact, you may be compounding the issue by co-signing it and testifying to how prevalent the fraud shyte is

I wish you luck in your future endeavors and hope you keep pushing for that next level sound

don't get stuck on fraud.

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

lets start...

Meek was mad drake didn't tweet his album...

He had what he thought was a trump card with QM reference tracks...

Dropped the twitter bombshell... then 1st reference..

No one cared..

Drake lightly touched him with charged up (invite to spar) while dropping another smash (hotline bling)

Charged Up was bait but the people felt it was too light... Be clear Drake cares about the people respecting his bars so Drake gave em Back 2 Back to up the ante...

Meek didn't deliver..

Fact is.. Drake coaxed him into a battle... he forced him back into the rap realm and dude lost

Meeks trump card was ghostwriting allegations.. no one cared.. he has nowhere else to go.. His sister spit better

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

>No one cared..

drake cared.
he cared so much he made not one but two diss tracks towards meek.

fuck you.

>>No one cared..
>
>drake cared.
>he cared so much he made not one but two diss tracks towards
>meek.

I said Drake cared about the people respecting his bars... The "battle" was a Drake move not a meek one..

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

dude catches feelings, releases two attack records in a week aimed personally at meek mill over him doing what?
telling the truth about you?

'diss records' and 'rap beefs' traditionally stem around somebody disrespecting, disagreeing, and/or slighting somebody else.

not around somebody airing out the facts with irrefutable evidence and then you getting emotional like a broad and storming in the booth to 'vent'.

if you did the shit, you did the shit.
and if it's such a 'non-issue' then wtf are you making 'diss records' for?

The issue isnt about ghost-writing/co-writing per say..

The issue was you were mad that dude didn't tweet your album (there was a precedence with Wale as well) so you try and air him out and question his skill level..

So Drake turned the tables and made him step up to the plate with some raps... and in the court of public opinion he lost..

but these are all warning shots imo.. neither one of them wants to really go for the juglular and lose money/relationships over this

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

>The issue isnt about ghost-writing/co-writing per say..
>
>The issue was you were mad that dude didn't tweet your album
>(there was a precedence with Wale as well) so you try and air
>him out and question his skill level..
>
>So Drake turned the tables and made him step up to the plate
>with some raps... and in the court of public opinion he
>lost..
>
>but these are all warning shots imo.. neither one of them
>wants to really go for the juglular and lose
>money/relationships over this

thats cool...

but thats the way it is...

for some ppl the reference tracks are the end all be all... Drakes steroid scandal.. but what he did was shift the conversation...

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

yall really hate drake that much lol.

why the fuck would he not respond?

<--- Big Baller World Order

like what exactly did meek do or say to warrant drake "charging up" on him?

<--- Big Baller World Order

nm.

<--- Big Baller World Order

it wasn't an attack - it was a track leak.

-someone in OVO sent an email to somebody with tracks cc'd.
-meek finds out.
-meek denounces drake as a result of new evidence of wide-spread ghostwriting coming to his attention.
-'reference tracks' publicly leak.
-drake personally attacks meek, while not addressing the actual issue that meek spoke on that was proven with evidence.

for me, drake dissing anybody as a result of this 'leak' is an admission that he severely felt threatened by meek merely commenting on something that was ultimately proven 100% true.

but if the use of ghostwriters is a 'non-issue' -- what are you responding to? why are you catching feelings and personally dissing someone who didn't even personally diss you for?

maybe you have to have been born in the 1990's for any of this to logically add up.

http://slumz.boxden.com/f87/well-damn-potent-dj-drama-meek-drake-tea-via-lipstickalley-2242227/

just a lot of idiots overplaying their hands and expecting that it was going to catch drake slipping.

drake doesnt have to address the ghostwriter issue because there is no issue. QM is credited. if he isn't on RICO then that's meek/MMG fault. at this point the attempt itself merited the response because it threatened to take money off drake plate. what's so hard to understand

<--- Big Baller World Order

anyway, again... drake should have just sat this one out imo.
and meek definitely should have.

you dont have to believe it but there are many things in there that we know to be true

a few of them cause im too lazy to go thru it all.
- Drake mixtape was supposed to be a Gangsta Grillz tape until he decided to do it on his own. Drama been pissed about this
- Drama being pissed at Meek now for blowing this all up in his face (go check his twitter. it may still be up).
- AR-Ab/Drake association. Drake got loads of material on Meek now.
- all the shit with flex trying to get the tracks causing him to pumpfake on a few nights of shows.

also there's the matter of Meek trying to get QM to write for him but being turned down. so that threw another log on the fire.

it's all true.

<--- Big Baller World Order

all parties look foolish and over-emotional.

meek should have never responded on record.

same as benzino should have never responded when he leaked the eminem n-word tapes.

they both had winning hands and both somehow managed to play themselves.

>
>
>-
>-meek denounces drake as a result of new evidence of
>

What is Drake responding too? You said it yourself

dude

what is the thought process of personally dissing someone for criticizing you for using ghostwriters (that you are, in fact, 100% guilty of using)?

'that motherfucker - how dare he tell everyone i'm using ghostwriters!? fuck him!!'

yeah, i can't co-sign that reaction... at all.

and i'm a strong proponent of ghostwriting in rap.

<--- Big Baller World Order

i could understand drake's position if he was just speculating without proof -- but when those tapes leaked, there really was no 'back and forth'.

imo, you own up to the shit and KIM or don't acknowledge it at all and KIM (a la kanye).

you don't not acknowledge it and also catch feelings and reach out and attack people who questioned your integrity for something that was proven you actually did.

lol.

i guess the position i'm arguing just doesn't make sense to the way people think and process things nowadays.

i don't have anything else to add beyond my op and replies.

If it feels like a shot, it's a shot

dude

This shit is frustrating bc Drake CAN actually write. His mixtape game since Room For Improvement (released 2006) proves that.

But here are the writing credits for Jay-Z - Magna Carta/Holy Grail:

http://i.imgur.com/cJqFgGF.png

And here they are for Nas - Life Is Good:

http://i.imgur.com/q8MKN96.png

I'm just putting these up because it's clear that when you are a MAINSTREAM rapper (ubiquitously known across the world, i.e. pop star status), you inevitably collaborate with writers to make HITS. it's how the song-making process works. yes, I agree that in hiphop it is essential to create your own material and if someone else is writing entire songs for you (without receiving any credit at that) then you need to get called out. but when you elevate yourself into the mainstream, it takes a lot more than just pure lyrical ability to make a hit.

---

Frisson Radio | Saturdays 6-8 PM EST | 89.5 FM (Toronto) | www.ciut.fm
https://www.instagram.com/frissonradio

Producers and writers of sampled songs get writing credits right?

~
~
~
~
~
Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

I should've know something was up. It was all Isaac.

I can hear it in the delivery

>Producers and writers of sampled songs get writing credits
>right?

From those credits, it looks to me like there were a lot of co-producers, copyright owners and co-writers on the R&B hooks.

When you're more familiar with who some of those people actually are and what they're known for, you'll see that there aren't any ghostwriters credited on there.

Come to grips with the fact that most OKP's are of the Nut Hugger lineage, so, if you' re not part of the little cliques that exist 'round here, your posts will probably tank like Souljaboy's album sales.

when we clearly SEE that Kanye thought up the hook/bridge well in advance of playing that beat for Jay and SPITS the damn lyrics that Jay ends up using to him:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdyyNJcNavw

why is it ok in this instance but not if someone like Drake or any other star rapper has guys on his team assisting in the song writing process?

that's all I'm trying to question here. if we're gonna criticize someone for something, shouldn't that rule be applied universally?

---

Frisson Radio | Saturdays 6-8 PM EST | 89.5 FM (Toronto) | www.ciut.fm
https://www.instagram.com/frissonradio

apparently its only an issue when other people write verses

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreams_Worth_More_Than_Money#Track_listing

~~~~~~

Faked his death, releasing albums, and getting checks from other artists?

How could he not be the realest?

__________________________________________
CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
------------------------------------
Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

much appreciated

---

Frisson Radio | Saturdays 6-8 PM EST | 89.5 FM (Toronto) | www.ciut.fm
https://www.instagram.com/frissonradio

and quite obviously it worked

meek misjudged how the public would respond to everything
drake pretty expertly steered the ship of public opinion

so now, nobody is talking about meek's allegations, but are instead talking about how weak his diss track was

maybe this is an improper comparison, but look at bill cosby
you can have pretty damning evidence on someone, but it'll take longer than overnight for the general public to accept it

if meek just leaked the reference tracks and let it be, then MAYBE popular opinion would turn on drake with time

instead drake put him in a corner and made him record a diss track. at that point it was over b/c meek didn't have the songwriting ability or additional ammo to get the public on his side

lesson: you go at the king, you best not miss

A one-stop page for new content from former Grantland-ers: https://twitter.com/grantlander33

a smarter person wouldn't have made a weak rap song responding they would have merely raised the point i raised in the OP and not even responded beyond that.

check mate.

A one-stop page for new content from former Grantland-ers: https://twitter.com/grantlander33

information?
lol
double 0 basically broke it down above
meek got in his feelings over some petty shit
tried to "exposed" drake with information 90% of raps fans apparently don't care about
then got destroyed with bars and gobbled the worst rap L in the modern social media era

iono why ppl are aligning themselves with this meek L in the name of some unsubstantiated hip hop edict
it's already been proved that plenty of golden era respected MCs did what drake does
on top of that NO.ONE.CARES

~~~~~~

drake over here proverbially screaming 'fuck you!!'

...like fuck me for what exactly, my dude?

no doubt meek caught an L but that's beside the point i'm trying to make.

like u said he never even denied any of the "exposure"
clearly meek was *trying* to disrespect or discredit drake
whether the public agreed with meek is irrelevant because only the intention matters at that point
drake peeped and made quick work of meek

~~~~~~

talking about dude's girl, his money, his status, etc.

going in on him like he claimed he fucked your wife and called you a fat motherfucka.

...and what exactly did meek do to you again?

oh yeah, he said he didn't respect that you use ghostwriters, which you do and were proven with irrefutable evidence leaked to the general public.

so why are you catching feelings and recording these diss records, again?

think about it.

i guess "diss me and you'll never hear a response to it" went out the window and meek didn't even really 'diss' him like that. lol.

A rapper raps.

Reeling off a few tracks like that is nothing to a talented
rapper.

And someone challenging your skills, in any way, is reason
enough to do it


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

There you go....

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

LL dissing Canibus on a song he reached out to him to feature on. A pretty innocuous, non-malicious bar. But LL felt a way about it, and instantly wrote a response to it. That's rap. An artform predominantly consisting of proud, boastful, war ready individuals. In many cases, you shoot first, ask questions/clear the mess later.

The general public didn't know about these "ghostwriter" allegations until Meek's tweet(s). He essentially attempted to "out" Drake, and in association with Flex, intentionally or not, gave the impression that his entire catalog could be the product of collaborative writing. Which ultimately calls Drake's creative and writing prowess into question. And you don't think a rapper would/should take offense to that, and respond in kind?

......................................

https://soundcloud.com/jasper_brown

http://jasperbrown.bandcamp.com/

>A rapper raps.
>
>Reeling off a few tracks like that is nothing to a talented
>rapper.
>
>And someone challenging your skills, in any way, is reason
>enough to do it

he didn't 'challenge his skills' like "yo i think i'm better than you!!".

he just said he had heard he used ghostwriters, he didn't respect that -- a couple days later the tracks leak which proved meek right.

He should battle it out live, once your pen game is questioned and people hear a reference track, what do you prove by releasing more songs?

This is an easy one..if you try to get at somebody by saying 'hey..this guy doesn't write his own stuff' and you don't have another punch to throw after, you're taking a risk that may not pay off.

'You didn't write some of your songs, a guy who is basically your stan fan who raps just like you did and you paid him for his work and used the songs' <> a death sentence. Meek doesn't know his history, so thought it was and didn't have a follow-up once Drake came back at him.

Sure, I too would love it if every lyric spit was concocted by the spitter, but that's Santa Claus stuff. And it has been for a looooong time.

I JUST listened to All Eyez On Me...all 27 songs. 2Pac is my dude, but tell me Daz didn't write at least some lines on those songs...some other time.

Jimaveli

>1) meek has a record with drake, it is a 'hit' on the hot
>100. meek subsequently has #1 album in the country two weeks
>in a row.
>
>2) at some point in the last week and a half, meek denounces
>drake because it came to his attention that many of his most
>popular songs/appearances over the last 8 months have been
>'ghostwritten' by an unknown rapper named, quentin miller.
>
>3) one of many 'reference tracks' for notable drake songs of
>the last 8 months is leaked to funkmaster flex by someone in
>OVO, fully corroborating meek mill's accusations.
>
>4) drake promptly releases two diss tracks aimed at meek mill,
>his personal life, etc.
>
>---STOP---
>
>this is the point in this encounter where i'm left scratching
>my head:
>
>what did drake personally diss meek for again, exactly?
>
>the 'reference tracks' leaked.
>everything meek mill said was proven and backed with
>evidence.
>
>drake then responded by going on a rap tirade toward meek, yet
>not addressing the (now proven) allegation that he didn't
>write xyz songs.
>
>so again, what exactly did drake diss meek mill for?
>
>...for exposing him?
>
>and somehow he's the winner out of all of this? sheesh.

>I JUST listened to All Eyez On Me...all 27 songs. 2Pac is my
>dude, but tell me Daz didn't write at least some lines on
>those songs...some other time.

Why Daz though? Why not Kurupt, who I would say is actually a better rapper than Pac, unlike Daz. Now, don't get me wrong, Daz ain't no slouch, but definitely not better than Pac.

I feel like, yeah, it's possible, but when you hear the stories of Pac's work ethic, it makes this theory kind of suspect.

Also, I kind of feel like SOMEONE in the camp would have said something about Pac using ghostwriters by now...

Come to grips with the fact that most OKP's are of the Nut Hugger lineage, so, if you' re not part of the little cliques that exist 'round here, your posts will probably tank like Souljaboy's album sales.

he getting pub and sales he wouldnt have gotten otherwise.. any publicity is good publicity

the drop-off on next week sales is gonna be free fall status.

how do you think puma feels about his endorsement right now?
lol
he's signed to a rappers imprint, he probably barely getting 10 cent an album on sales
he needs all that show/endorsement money. if his image is shot with the pop/white demo and he needs to rely on hood niggas or "real hip hop heads" it's a wrap

~~~~~~

meek always scanning like 250-500k from what i've seen.

i'm so old that i don't even get exposed to the type of people who would be big enough fans of his to actually part with their money for his material.

he always sounds like he's one or two semitones above rapping in the right key of the beat.

i like high-octave voiced rappers, but he doesn't do it right.
he seems tone-deaf or something.

-shrugs-

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