What song or album was the last major NJS hit?

What non-NJS Album or Song marks the new direction R&B would be going into post-NJS?


My uneducated guess is that TLCs first album was the last distinctly NJS hit and G Funk and Diddy produced R&B marks the new direction that R&B/Hip-Hop was heading in post NJS.



**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson


"One of the most important things in life is what Judge Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you're

I heard that MJ's REMEMBER THE TIME is considered the bookend to the era. that came out Feburary of 1992 though.

I would also say BLACKSTREET was showing the new direction of R&B...whatever that was.

"Here we go" that were the last of the era.

Even songs like Jade "Don't walk away" were very similar to NJS, but slightly more evolved.

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musical trends end when their originators/purveyors abandon it. So in the case of the almighty Teddy Riley... around the time he switched his sound up with Blackstreet. whenever that was...

I was thinking it was My Life that marked the beginning of the new direction because it was just take an old school beat that you mama use to jam to, change absolutely nothing about it, but lay different R&B vocals over it.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson


"One of the most important things in life is what Judge Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you're

same sound. Think about how Groove Theory "Tell me," R. Kelly ft. Biggie "You to be happy," Faith "I remember" were extremely similar in structure...drums, bridge, etc.

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>same sound. Think about how Groove Theory "Tell me," R. Kelly
>ft. Biggie "You to be happy," Faith "I remember" were
>extremely similar in structure...drums, bridge, etc.

Man...they were all up on that Barry. Good call...all three of those joints are the jam.

Tell Me is high on a list of my favorite songs ever. I had a HUGE high school crush who was all about that song..whoooo! I'ma stop self/dry-snitching...tangent over!

I'm with the folks who cite Puffy as a big part of ending NJS. That NY/street R&B was where it was at by the time he was about to put BIG out in 95. He was in on Jodeci and the first two Mary albums were nails all up in the coffin.

I could also see Keith Sweat as a bridge between the two cuz he was carrying a gang of 'rap bass' on his slow jams and his uptempo stuff was hella NJS. So maybe he can catch an honorable mention.

My Life solidified that direction but specifically 'Real Love' and 'What's the 411' (the songs) with Jodeci's 'Come And Talk To Me' (Remix) kicked off the NEW THING. kinda like Keith Sweat's 'I Want Her' and Johnny Kemp's 'Just Got Paid' had done w/NJS.

fuck you.

And even "Rumpshaker" which was 92-93. Both of those were slightly evolved, as I feel about Jade "Don't walk away."

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Once Teddy moved on, NJS was a wrap. Could he have continued in the face of G-Funk and the Puffy/Bad Boy era (which was an extension of the Uptown sound)? Not exactly sure. But Teddy started it and ended it, in my book

<-- Dave Thomas knows what's up...
__________________________

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Jay: Aretha Franklin.
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Jay: Nigga...

And it feels like it's no actual New Jack Swing on there. It has songs like Mariah "Dreamlover," Christopher Williams "Every little thing you do," and Joe "I'm in luv" and these songs were all basically the next step past New Jack Swing, keeping the happy sounding elements, similar drums, but the swing itself was eliminated.

Even this sound itself was extremely brief...by 1994, you only heard a few songs that were similar, such as Black Girl "90's girl" -https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xf1_apP84Zg - and songs like SWV "Anything (remix)" Zhane "Sending my love," and Aaliyah "Back and forth" seemed to be even more advanced.

So I'd say 92, which is when the sound of upbeat R&B started to change...some of it started getting darker and even more Boom Bap, such as "Rumpshaker" and "Above the rim" which were both Teddy. Even listening to Blackstreet's 94 album, you can tell Teddy had just left NJS, but that sound he used became stale VERY fast, because even the upbeat songs were starting to sound a bit more acoustic at the time. Think about a Janet "That's the way love goes," Mary J. Blige "You bring me joy," or Zhane "Hey Mr. DJ."

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>Even this sound itself was extremely brief...by 1994, you only
>heard a few songs that were similar, such as Black Girl "90's
>girl" -https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xf1_apP84Zg - and songs
>like SWV "Anything (remix)" Zhane "Sending my love," and
>Aaliyah "Back and forth" seemed to be even more advanced.


But never saw the video. Did they REALLY name the group Blackgirl while only having dark skinned women in the group? No one saw a problem with that? That's like a group with only light skinned women name Clear.

Come to grips with the fact that most OKP's are of the Nut Hugger lineage, so, if you' re not part of the little cliques that exist 'round here, your posts will probably tank like Souljaboy's album sales.

"Remember the time" feels like the end..

Although the Jodeci era crossed through NJS to Hip Hop Soul era... it feels like My Life was where the shift happened.

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What's the 411 was in the space of post NJS which someone mentioned also had SWV's "Anything".

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imo neither are NJS

You could argue there are similarities since Teddy Riley and Chucky Thompson both pulled from Gogo swing (as did Herbie Lovebug) but What's the 411 and SWV where based on (drum) breaks which is totally different than what NJS was doing.

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fuck you.

I agree.. I think I just picked the wrong Mary album.. lol

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That was the end. Not My Life.

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because there were plenty of NJS hits afterr the 411. I think I point to My Life because there were no NJS hits after that record.

So Mary in my mind marks the turning point and that turning point was complete by My Life.

It's not much of a disagreement though because alot of us are pointing to Diddy's influence as the major change in R&B.

I am also thinking about how 15 described how he felt like My Life changed the game when he heard it drop.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson


"One of the most important things in life is what Judge Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you're

it ended when Hip-Hop Soul came along w/R&B songs backed by actual Hip-Hop beats instead of Hip-Hop-influenced musical arrangements.

fuck you.

<-- Dave Thomas knows what's up...
__________________________

Jay: Look here homie, any nigga can get a hit record. This here is about respect.
Game: Like Gladys Knight.
Jay: Aretha Franklin.
Game: Word, I like her too.
Jay: Nigga...

That came out in November, 1991.

The uptempo side of Jodeci's Forever My Lady had some New Jack Swing grooves but what hit for them was the downtempo jams like Stay and Come & Talk to Me. Forever My Lady dropped in August, '91.

From then on out, the hip hop soul shit was in full effect.


http://twitter.com/collazo

to the end of NJS.

fuck you.

The Puff remixes at Uptown really ended NJS because of the break beats and baseline changes.. shifted the whole R&B thang

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fuck you.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson


"One of the most important things in life is what Judge Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you're

'Hold On' was not NJS and was a huge hit in 1990.

'My Lovin (You're Never Gonna Get It)' wasn't NJS either. that hit in 1992.

same w/'Free Your Mind', sorta.

though i credit 'Hold On' as the first real H-H Soul hit single i wouldn't say that song kicked off the HHS movement. maybe their hits were just outliers during the NJS era.

fuck you.

There was alot of overlap and a transition period so it would be hard to point to that one record that changed everything.

One form of R&B was on the rise while another was on decline and the two styles mingled alot during the transition.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson


"One of the most important things in life is what Judge Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you're

>'Hold On' was not NJS and was a huge hit in 1990.

Was Hold On the first R&B tune to "sample" a hip hop tune (Boomin' System) that had already sampled an R&B tune? I don't know what the original sample was.


*EDIT* Wait, Hold On was BEFORE Boomin' System? I always assumed it was the other way around.





http://twitter.com/collazo

'Hold On' was released first. produced by Foster & McElroy, it has a prominent sample from James Brown's 'The Payback'.

i dunno if Marley Marl heard that and was inspired but a few months later LL's 'Boomin System' was released and either lifted the backing track from 'Hold On' OR also sampled 'The Payback' in a strikingly similar fashion. either way, Foster & McElroy got at Marley Marl and Def Jam over all of this. an agreement was reached by which Marley Marl and Def Jam agreed to tweak 'Boomin System' so that the backing track isn't so close to 'Hold On'. as a result the single and album versions of 'Boomin System' were changed and the original 'Boomin System' w/the original beat became known as the Underground Mix.

fuck you.

https://digife.com

>'Hold On' was released first. produced by Foster & McElroy,
>it has a prominent sample from James Brown's 'The Payback'.
>
>i dunno if Marley Marl heard that and was inspired but a few
>months later LL's 'Boomin System' was released and either
>lifted the backing track from 'Hold On' OR also sampled 'The
>Payback' in a strikingly similar fashion. either way, Foster
>& McElroy got at Marley Marl and Def Jam over all of this. an
>agreement was reached by which Marley Marl and Def Jam agreed
>to tweak 'Boomin System' so that the backing track isn't so
>close to 'Hold On'. as a result the single and album versions
>of 'Boomin System' were changed and the original 'Boomin
>System' w/the original beat became known as the Underground
>Mix.


Damn, what happened to Foster & McElroy? I was just wondering what happened to another one of those writing/production duos from then, Dr. Freeze & Spydaman...



http://twitter.com/collazo

Never knew the story on that though

<-- Dave Thomas knows what's up...
__________________________

Jay: Look here homie, any nigga can get a hit record. This here is about respect.
Game: Like Gladys Knight.
Jay: Aretha Franklin.
Game: Word, I like her too.
Jay: Nigga...

>'Hold On' was released first. produced by Foster & McElroy,
>it has a prominent sample from James Brown's 'The Payback'.
>
>i dunno if Marley Marl heard that and was inspired but a few
>months later LL's 'Boomin System' was released and either
>lifted the backing track from 'Hold On' OR also sampled 'The
>Payback' in a strikingly similar fashion. either way, Foster
>& McElroy got at Marley Marl and Def Jam over all of this. an
>agreement was reached by which Marley Marl and Def Jam agreed
>to tweak 'Boomin System' so that the backing track isn't so
>close to 'Hold On'. as a result the single and album versions
>of 'Boomin System' were changed and the original 'Boomin
>System' w/the original beat became known as the Underground
>Mix.

And this is exactly the kind of inside stuff that keeps me coming back to OKP.

Come to grips with the fact that most OKP's are of the Nut Hugger lineage, so, if you' re not part of the little cliques that exist 'round here, your posts will probably tank like Souljaboy's album sales.

Those En Vogue songs were kinda biting the British soul sound of the time though no?

Soul II Soul/Caron Wheeler
Lisa Stansfield

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-------------------------------------------
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song ever. but that version wasn't a hit single so i don't credit that song as being the first HHS hit.

anyway, yes - SS's thing where they had Caron Wheeler singing sweetly over hard drums helped form the blueprint for HHS, IMO.

fuck you.

Man that was the soundtrack to the greatest summer in my life! 1989 FTW!

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not the acapella.

regardless...the acapella is one of my top 3 favorite songs of all time.

fuck you.

I only heard the single version on radio and on the video. That said, I'm with you with my love of that song.

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when i played my copy of the Keep On Movin album...which i'd bought at a swap meet and didn't realize was a bootleg. LOL. the bootleg is actually mislabeled - it's the original UK album, Club Classics Vol 1, which had the acapella version of 'Back To Life'. the American album, Keep on Movin', had the single version of 'Back To Life' and not the acapella. which is why at least where i was the streets didn't have the acapella - it was only available on the 12 inch single in the USA.

fuck you.

Or was the first one this..

Off that Kid Capri mixtape -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vihnVBpntDo

This feels like the archetype to a lot (coulda been biting soul II soul as well though both 1989)

The British producers (Coldcut) were obviously up on this since they successfully remixed Paid In Full into a hit in 1987..

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so i dunno if i'd count it. plus i think 'Back To Life' came first.

fuck you.

Yea I dont remember the timeline..

but everything was a remix back then.. or a "version"

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w/an R&B singer singing over a break-beat. it's not a remix. neither is 'Hold On'. those are the songs i've posited as the first HHS.

fuck you.

The acapella intro version is the first one I've heard. The one that begins with "steady are you ready"

Then there is a version with drums starting it.

Then the sole acapella.. etc..

What I am saying is back then there were a few different versions of songs that could be the break out.

Paid In Full's most famous version is a remix. As were a ton of rap records back then (word to Salaam Remi).. but yea

The Kid Capri joint was a "blend" but it was one of the biggest mixtapes in new york (maybe ever) and that version was played on the radio.

Either way... all of that led to the shift certainly.. don't think we can pinpoint one specific song

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and i think it's likely 'Back To Life' or 'Hold On'.

and when i say 'Back to Life' i mean this original version:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzYSfiSxqo0

that ^ is the version that was released first. it first appeared on Soul II Soul's album Club Classics, Volume One which was released in April 1989. the 'Back to Life' single was released about a month later. it included a new version of the song w/new lyrics and a new musical arrangement. it was eventually re-titled 'Back to Life (However Do You Want Me)' to differentiate it from the album version. it's this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOijWD9NWmE

the b-side of the 12 inch single had a remix of the original acapella version:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWYOMdisorA

the US singles included yet another remix, the Acapella Intro Version you first heard:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hd7Ksz6rek

then the American version of the Club Classics album was released, titled Keep On Movin. it included the version of 'Back To Life (However Do You Want Me)' most of us know:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wB5TuHSPUlM

fuck you.

Back to Life was 1989..

But the full Michael Bivens, Dallas Austin era of NJS barely began...

TLC, ABC, Boyz II Men, Uptown Records, Strictly Business soundtrack and all that good NJS happens well into 91 at least

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fuck you.

Peace,

Spirit (Alan)
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Eclectic Soul/Sunday, 2-4 PM est/89.3 WCSB.ORG

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with my heart was new jack swing base though it has a Pat Boone kick to it.

truth is it never really ended because Teddy RIley combined R&B,Pop and Rap as one. so that style format is alive and well. the actual sound per se went out in the late 90's.

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

I miss joints like this.

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The premise will be that New Jack Swing Died, and the Neptunes Sound was born at Teddy Riley's studio in Va Beach.

Three episode podcast.

first episode will be about Teddy Moving to VA after all the success he had with New Jack Swing.

Second Episode would be about the Pivot away from New Jack Swing with Black Street. Talk about Hip-Hop Soul.

Third Episode about Teddy Riley introducing Neptunes and Missy & Timbland to the World and their impact on Black Music.

DO IT! Seriously.

I recently dreamt of getting an investor and taking over a seemingly defunct music zine I will not name here and producing new issues, including one dedicated to New Jack Swing. So, it’s mad coincidental you posted this.

The NJS issue would include persons/groups not mentioned as much (see: The Gyrlz, Kyle West) and would also discuss equipment used and interviews with/ articles about heavily sampled artists and songs within the sub genre. Plus an obligatory interview with Teddy. His Red Bull Music Academy lecture is good starting point...


Off topic: I think a New Jack City film remake is in the works. SMDH. I ain’t nuthin sacred!

--
"Music is not to be possessed; it's to be shared.” - James Mtume

"Just stay loose, keep it raw, and bang ya drums out sometimes." - Madlib

....and blew the fuck up with it anyway

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Great idea for a podcast series.

https://digife.com

Teddy Riley's influence on What's the 411. Of course Puffy get's all the credit for producing but since we know Puffy steals/borrows what's hot who was the real creative force behind What's the 411? Were ROn G mixtapes the inspiration? Just trying to figure out if it's a reach to say Teddy Riley had a role or huge influence on What's the 411 (despite some credits on the remix album).

Secondly, I am trying to figure out how Mr Dalvin fits into the picture. I don't know if there is a line between Mr. Dalvin and Teddy Riley other than Missy Elliot being around Teddy and then ultimately being picked up by Mr. Dalvin.




**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

I’m not aware of any connection between them?

I am trying to figure what exactly is the relationship between Teddy and Missy. I understand Teddy was an inspiration by being in Va Beach when Missy and Tim were growing up.

Timbaland, Pharrell and Teddy Riley even all went to the same church.

But I am trying to figure out if Teddy helped Missy and Timbaland directly in their careers.

In this article they refer to Teddy as a mentor to them but I am not sure if they meant he literally mentored and worked with them.

https://daily.redbullmusicacademy.com/2015/04/origin-stories-missy-elliott-timbaland


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

>What song or album was the last major NJS hit?
>
>What non-NJS Album or Song marks the new direction R&B would
>be going into post-NJS?
>
>
>My uneducated guess is that TLCs first album was the last
>distinctly NJS hit and G Funk and Diddy produced R&B marks the
>new direction that R&B/Hip-Hop was heading in post NJS.
>
>
>
>**********
>"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then
>they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson
>
>
>"One of the most important things in life is what Judge
>Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to
>whether you're


Peace,

Spirit (Alan)
http://wutangbook.com