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Subject: ""Ol' Dirty Bastard vehemently denied his middle-class upbringing"" Previous topic | Next topic
IslaSoul
Member since Aug 01st 2003
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Tue Jun-09-15 06:44 AM

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""Ol' Dirty Bastard vehemently denied his middle-class upbringing""
Tue Jun-09-15 06:50 AM by IslaSoul

  

          

Following excerpt is from "It's Bigger Than Hip Hop: The Rise of the Post-Hip-Hop Generation" (M.K. Asante, Jr.)


"The late Russel Tyrone Jones-also known as Joe Bananas, Dirt Mcgirt, Dirt Dog, Ason Unique, Big Baby Jesus, Osirus and most commonly Ol' Dirty Bastard-died frontin'. Much like my brother, ODB spent his adult life dancing between jail, welfare, and stints with rap success. And also like my brother, ODB vehemently denied his middle-class upbringing, and instead promoted a poverty-stricken, dangerous one (as if being Black wasn't enough). In "Caught Up," he raps:

I'm a ghetto n***a dog so I get it how I live
Got Money, lock 'em off, f***ers still I got drama
Got two strike dog and five baby mamas.

"I was furious," said William Jones, ODB's father. "You know, that story about him being raised in the Fort Greene projects on welfare until he was a child of thirteen was a total lie," he added.
When Jones talked to his wife about their son's bogus claims of ghettoship, her response was simple: "he did it for publicity." Of course he did. ODB understood that boasting racist and classist stereotypes about Blacks would reaffirm them in the minds of a largely white consumer market. This would explain the correlation between ODB's run-ins with the law and simultaneous spikes in record sales.

ODB's story reminds us that most artists feel that in order to "make it," they need to portray a stereotypical image that is marketable to white America. As a result, artists like ODB downplay their middle-class origins and artists who are from the ghetto avoid portraying and calling out the savage injustices that created their condition."

http://islasoul.bandcamp.com

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
...it's also about selling that image to Black consumers.
Jun 09th 2015
1
agreed
Jun 09th 2015
3
yup...this probably played a bigger role in his situation...
Jun 11th 2015
37
All rappers are actors
Jun 09th 2015
2
Not all rappers are, there are many artists who genuinely try
Jun 09th 2015
6
RE: "Ol' Dirty Bastard vehemently denied his middle-class upbringing"
Jun 09th 2015
4
That & the "rags to riches" narrative is much more compelling
Jun 09th 2015
5
Wait, so was he even a bastard?
Jun 09th 2015
7
RE: Wait, so was he even a bastard? Yes
Jun 09th 2015
10
I bet that muhfucka showered too
Jun 09th 2015
11
that punk wasn't even 40 when he died "OL" my ass.!
Jun 09th 2015
13
this girl from my neighborhood said he used...........
Jun 11th 2015
34
      that was only for his neck
Jun 11th 2015
41
           lmao
Jun 11th 2015
42
           Yoooo
Jun 11th 2015
44
I just Tweeted about this, and....
Jun 09th 2015
*duplicate*
Jun 09th 2015
8
Yo, Richard Attenborough never made a dinosaur!?
Jun 09th 2015
9
nah, its pretty fucked up when a Black man from a good home lies about i...
Jun 09th 2015
12
Agreed
Jun 09th 2015
14
I've been around Ason's people
Jun 09th 2015
15
dirty recognize dirty.
Jun 09th 2015
16
I been around his brother Will Jones, drummer for Funkface, a NYC
Jun 09th 2015
17
did he seem like a middle class type of guy?
Jun 09th 2015
19
uh, he is really well spoken. Could have been on radio or TV
Jun 09th 2015
20
      yeah i mean i'm not crapping on being poor
Jun 09th 2015
21
Ahhh you know Ram?
Jun 09th 2015
24
      Check out the band Funkface - the band Ramsey drums with
Jun 10th 2015
28
ayo I got a question about a Dumhi verse..
Jun 09th 2015
18
      must have been that dilla mixtape
Jun 09th 2015
22
           still... I think you might be right on both points
Jun 09th 2015
25
This excerpt is not only a criticism of ODB dumbing down
Jun 09th 2015
23
Brooklyn Zoological Gardens?
Jun 09th 2015
26
I'm pretty sure that "Vehemently" was his middle name, no?
Jun 09th 2015
27
So... did he NOT have 5 baby mommas?
Jun 10th 2015
29
right??
Jun 10th 2015
30
Raw hide
Jun 10th 2015
31
      I gotta ask the fam
Jun 10th 2015
32
      RE: Raw hide..... In the same song, he also said...
Jun 11th 2015
33
RE: "Ol' Dirty Bastard vehemently denied his middle-class upbringing"
Jun 11th 2015
35
fraudulent? Man foh. You ain't gotta like him but that shit is way out...
Jun 11th 2015
40
      i know right??
Jun 11th 2015
45
Does it really matter?
Jun 11th 2015
36
RE: Does it really matter?
Jun 11th 2015
39
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1WFA0liN1o&t=3m37s
Jun 11th 2015
38
If his father was furious, why wait till after ODB is dead to bring it u...
Jun 11th 2015
43
It's in the book and I don't think it's meant being disrespectful
Jun 11th 2015
48
i been told y'all this since 1998
Jun 11th 2015
46
It took me a while to understand why Suburban White kids loved
Jun 11th 2015
47
Actually...
Jun 11th 2015
49
RE: i been told y'all this since 1998
Jun 12th 2015
50

SoWhat
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Tue Jun-09-15 07:22 AM

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1. "...it's also about selling that image to Black consumers."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I agree with all but that race angle.

fuck you.

  

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Dr Claw
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Tue Jun-09-15 10:38 AM

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3. "agreed"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

  

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gumz
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Thu Jun-11-15 11:09 AM

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37. "yup...this probably played a bigger role in his situation..."
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

given where hiphop was it was more important to be accepted by black folks to get on than whites.

http://www.youtube.com/user/gumzization
twitter: @BrosefMalone

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
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Tue Jun-09-15 08:31 AM

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2. "All rappers are actors"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Doesn't diminish the greatness of Return to the 36 Chambers one bit

******************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

OutKast, Gang Starr, UGK, Mobb Deep and Eightball & MJG

  

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IslaSoul
Member since Aug 01st 2003
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Tue Jun-09-15 11:39 AM

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6. "Not all rappers are, there are many artists who genuinely try"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          


representing themselves & where they come from through their art.

He didn't mention "Return to the 36 Chambers"

I think there lies an interesting discussion about authenticity & appropiation in all this.

http://islasoul.bandcamp.com

  

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denny
Member since Apr 11th 2008
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Tue Jun-09-15 11:06 AM

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4. "RE: "Ol' Dirty Bastard vehemently denied his middle-class upbringing""
In response to Reply # 0


          

The 'lower class is virtuous' thing isn't just in hip hop. Look at the Rolling Stones.....upper class kids pretending to be poor and hard whereas the band that actually WAS poor and hard, the beatles, didn't try to exploit their background.

  

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IslaSoul
Member since Aug 01st 2003
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Tue Jun-09-15 11:23 AM

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5. "That & the "rags to riches" narrative is much more compelling"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

>The 'lower class is virtuous' thing isn't just in hip hop.
>Look at the Rolling Stones.....upper class kids pretending to
>be poor and hard whereas the band that actually WAS poor and
>hard, the beatles, didn't try to exploit their background.

than having "everything" while growing up

http://islasoul.bandcamp.com

  

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-DJ R-Tistic-
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Tue Jun-09-15 11:56 AM

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7. "Wait, so was he even a bastard?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

------------------------------

50+ FREE Mixes on www.DJR-Tistic.com!

Twitter and Instagram - @DJ_RTistic

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
Member since Dec 25th 2010
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Tue Jun-09-15 12:59 PM

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10. "RE: Wait, so was he even a bastard? Yes"
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

No father to his style

******************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

OutKast, Gang Starr, UGK, Mobb Deep and Eightball & MJG

  

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Jon
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11. "I bet that muhfucka showered too"
In response to Reply # 7


          

  

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PG
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13. "that punk wasn't even 40 when he died "OL" my ass.!"
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

  

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My_SP1200_Broken_Again
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34. "this girl from my neighborhood said he used..........."
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

......."protection"



smh



















< Live Mixshow - Thurs 11PM/EST >
https://twitch.tv/djchiefone

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tariqhu
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41. "that was only for his neck"
In response to Reply # 34


          

Y'all buy those labels, I was born supreme

  

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Boogie Stimuli
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42. "lmao"
In response to Reply # 41


          

~
~
~
~
~
Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

  

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-DJ R-Tistic-
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44. "Yoooo"
In response to Reply # 41


  

          

------------------------------

50+ FREE Mixes on www.DJR-Tistic.com!

Twitter and Instagram - @DJ_RTistic

  

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-DJ R-Tistic-
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"I just Tweeted about this, and...."


  

          

https://twitter.com/theerj/status/608317469414014978

------------------------------

50+ FREE Mixes on www.DJR-Tistic.com!

Twitter and Instagram - @DJ_RTistic

  

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-DJ R-Tistic-
Member since Nov 06th 2008
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8. "*duplicate*"
In response to Reply # 0
Tue Jun-09-15 12:10 PM by -DJ R-Tistic-

  

          

nm

------------------------------

50+ FREE Mixes on www.DJR-Tistic.com!

Twitter and Instagram - @DJ_RTistic

  

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Jon
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9. "Yo, Richard Attenborough never made a dinosaur!?"
In response to Reply # 0
Tue Jun-09-15 01:01 PM by Jon

          

What a fraud!

I'm so tired of everyone demanding Hip-Hop artists be autobiographically accurate all the time when doing anything in first person. Its so fucking limiting and stupid.

It's also caused a ton of rappers and wannabe rappers to act shitty and risky in real life to justify the vibe they want to portray with their art.

We don't demand this factual accuracy from Poe or Bob Dylan or Don Cheedle. Johnny Cash can say crazy shit, Jimi can sing Hey Joe, but Pac has to show everyone he really will go to war in the streets

  

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legsdiamond
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12. "nah, its pretty fucked up when a Black man from a good home lies about i..."
In response to Reply # 9


          

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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MME
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14. "Agreed"
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

>What a fraud!
>
>I'm so tired of everyone demanding Hip-Hop artists be
>autobiographically accurate all the time when doing anything
>in first person. Its so fucking limiting and stupid.
>
>It's also caused a ton of rappers and wannabe rappers to act
>shitty and risky in real life to justify the vibe they want to
>portray with their art.
>
>We don't demand this factual accuracy from Poe or Bob Dylan or
>Don Cheedle. Johnny Cash can say crazy shit, Jimi can sing Hey
>Joe, but Pac has to show everyone he really will go to war in
>the streets

____________________________

FUCK DONALD TRUMP

  

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Mash_Comp
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15. "I've been around Ason's people"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

They ain't look middle class to me.

*********************
www.dumhi.com -- We are ALL dumhi

  

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PG
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16. "dirty recognize dirty."
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

  

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c71
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17. "I been around his brother Will Jones, drummer for Funkface, a NYC"
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

funk rock band, for several years. We worked at Tower Records together in the late 90's.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6GcbqZUlEk

(no, I'm not "bunny is the most" who made the comment on the video page)

Will Ramsey Jones is the MAN. He really was a cool very admirable guy. Real in the best sense of the word.

  

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mikediggz
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19. "did he seem like a middle class type of guy?"
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

  

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c71
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20. "uh, he is really well spoken. Could have been on radio or TV"
In response to Reply # 19


  

          

like a correspondent.


I guess I was realizing my referring to his well-spokenness might have been like a "poor people can't speak well" type of assertion.


but, uh, yeah doesn't have a "hood" vibe - to tone down the assertion/insinuation. Isn't nerdy at all, though.

  

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Mash_Comp
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21. "yeah i mean i'm not crapping on being poor"
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

you're right, they all spoke well.

but a lot of "hood" cats spoke "well." hell, i'm from the "hood" and did okay in that arena but i know I qualify as lower middle class.

*********************
www.dumhi.com -- We are ALL dumhi

  

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13Rose
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24. "Ahhh you know Ram?"
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

My boy that played in another band worked at Tower with him also. Dirty is a distant cousin of mine and he was always trying to get me to meet Ram. Said he was a great dude, but we never met. I can't remember the name of that damn band!

This post was paid for by the following.

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Remember MJ The Great!
PSN: ThirteenRose

  

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c71
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28. "Check out the band Funkface - the band Ramsey drums with"
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

on youtube or live if you can

  

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PG
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18. "ayo I got a question about a Dumhi verse.."
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

on RAHM.. who's spits the verse:

"My style varies like a 12 speed bike/y'all dudes don't know who the hell be nice/I heard your LP twice? and it didn't move me not once..."

man I've been wondering that for years.

  

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Mash_Comp
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22. "must have been that dilla mixtape"
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

i'm not sure. maybe FLUD? i couldn't tell you.

*********************
www.dumhi.com -- We are ALL dumhi

  

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PG
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25. "still... I think you might be right on both points"
In response to Reply # 22


  

          

  

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IslaSoul
Member since Aug 01st 2003
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23. "This excerpt is not only a criticism of ODB dumbing down"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


it's about identity and creating a persona that fits into who the outside world expects you to be. Fame (for example) can intensify that experience and push individuals to certain limits of that persona, thus creating an 'other you' conforming to the status quo.

In the same book, Asante writes about an increased level of suicides amongst Black teens who come from higher socioeconomic backgrounds than the general African-American population. He continues writing that many psychologists speculate that this increase is due to identity crises perpetuated by the mass media.

http://islasoul.bandcamp.com

  

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csuave03
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26. "Brooklyn Zoological Gardens?"
In response to Reply # 0
Tue Jun-09-15 05:58 PM by csuave03

  

          

Based on personal experience, people that are really really grimy weren't even really from the hood, they may have just spent a lot of time there because of unresolved stereotypical proclivities. Not saying that was ODB but it definitely does include a lot of entertainers.

There is also the education angle, most people that really grew up lower class didn't have access to good education. Some did, but how hood were they really if so? However, there are always exceptions

IDK

  

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PG
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27. "I'm pretty sure that "Vehemently" was his middle name, no?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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13Rose
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29. "So... did he NOT have 5 baby mommas?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I'm confused. To my knowledge Dirty stayed making babies and stayed high. I don't remember him referencing his childhood much at all.

This post was paid for by the following.

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spitfire
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30. "right??"
In response to Reply # 29


          

why did dude single ODB out when there are literally tons of worse offenders..

Either way i always felt like he was glorifying craziness. a hood upbringing? not so much...

of course there was the MTV/welfare thing, but even that was just sheer madness. What stereotype is ODB exactly pushin? he was definitely no pimp, hustler, gangster, player, kingpin or whatever

i don't think the bugged out, paranoid, alcoholic uncle who could get funky as hell when he was buzzed counts

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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c71
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31. "Raw hide"
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

"I came out my momma ****** -- I'm on welfare
Twenty-six years old -- still on welfare!"

  

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13Rose
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32. "I gotta ask the fam"
In response to Reply # 31


  

          

I know my cousins came up rough like I did but I didn't grow up with Dirty an em so I don't know.

This post was paid for by the following.

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Remember MJ The Great!
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Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
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Thu Jun-11-15 02:01 AM

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33. "RE: Raw hide..... In the same song, he also said..."
In response to Reply # 31


          

"Gotta come back to attack
Killin' niggas who say they got stacks
cuz I don't give a fuck
I wanna see blood, whether it's period blood or bustin ya fuckin face
SOME BLOOD!!!!!
I'm goin out my fuckin mind
Every time I get around devils
*breathes heavy*"


Among other pretty wild shit. Next yall will be using to song to prove that he
"vehemently denied" being a vampire due to the line about blood... or that he
"vehemently denied" being a murderer of rich rappers.

Lol @ taking Dirt seriously... ESPECIALLY in that song.

Geezus.



~
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~
~
~
Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

  

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spidey
Charter member
13107 posts
Thu Jun-11-15 10:23 AM

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35. "RE: "Ol' Dirty Bastard vehemently denied his middle-class upbringing""
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Huge Wu fan, but never got the appeal of dude…never saw brother as that talented on mic….yeah, some bangers he got down on here and there, but overall nah…and y'all need to stop coppin pleas, fraudulent is fraudulent….

Integrity is the Cornerstone of Artistry...

  

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Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
14000 posts
Thu Jun-11-15 11:50 AM

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40. "fraudulent? Man foh. You ain't gotta like him but that shit is way out..."
In response to Reply # 35


          

and uncalled for. Just say he ain't your cup of tea and sip something else.
Disrespectful mufuckas man I tell ya.

~
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Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

  

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The3rdOne
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9105 posts
Thu Jun-11-15 02:36 PM

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45. "i know right??"
In response to Reply # 40


  

          

  

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Mack
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7372 posts
Thu Jun-11-15 10:51 AM

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36. "Does it really matter?"
In response to Reply # 0


          

let the guy rest in peace. His "On Parole" tv documentary was so sad...watching how everyone just used him for their gain. the price of fame, I guess.

"Dressed up like an evil villain dressed up like a soccer dad"

  

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gumz
Member since Jan 09th 2005
20118 posts
Thu Jun-11-15 11:12 AM

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39. "RE: Does it really matter?"
In response to Reply # 36


  

          

it doesn't at all...you're right

>let the guy rest in peace.

http://www.youtube.com/user/gumzization
twitter: @BrosefMalone

  

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normal35762
Member since Oct 20th 2004
13244 posts
Thu Jun-11-15 11:11 AM

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38. "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1WFA0liN1o&t=3m37s"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1WFA0liN1o&t=3m37s

  

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spirit
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21428 posts
Thu Jun-11-15 12:49 PM

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43. "If his father was furious, why wait till after ODB is dead to bring it u..."
In response to Reply # 0
Thu Jun-11-15 12:53 PM by spirit

  

          

This guy could have gotten his story out to the media about his son in the mid-90s. Why wait until 2015 to set the record "straight"?

The whole time ODB was famous as a rapper, I literally never heard a thing from his father anywhere. Where was this guy?

I don't believe you, you need more people....

ps: where did you get this excerpt from? The author MK Asante? His publishing house? If that phrase "died fronting" appears in the book, MK is gonna get a lot of Wu friends and family coming for his head. Wild disrespectful choice of words.

Peace,

Spirit (Alan)
http://wutangbook.com

  

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IslaSoul
Member since Aug 01st 2003
5947 posts
Thu Jun-11-15 04:51 PM

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48. "It's in the book and I don't think it's meant being disrespectful"
In response to Reply # 43


  

          

In that chapter he is deconstructing "keeping it real" ODB is just one example, he also writes about Ice-T and his own brother.

I posted this excerpt because
1) this is new to me

2) I find the being 'authentic' or 'real' narrative can weigh down artists who think they have to behave a certain way in order to be accepted.

http://islasoul.bandcamp.com

  

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15
Member since Mar 01st 2005
9915 posts
Thu Jun-11-15 02:45 PM

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46. "i been told y'all this since 1998"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

1) coons/clowns
2) dangerous thugs
3) sexed out mandingo and dingettes
4: diluted ambigous non threatening
5) dignified and boring.

there are your 5 options.


this is VERY interesting because 2 things NEVER made sense:


1) his family is the OPPOSITE of him. cousins and siblings are like skateboarding punk rockers and are more Alt than street.---always confused me how HE was ghetto as hell but not his brothers.

2) all of his pop culture references were of the things you'd NEVER hear in the hood. i once saw a concert in which he sang BJ Thomas' "hey why dont you play one of those "somebody done somebody wrong song"---i was like "waitaminute!!!"

NO! LIST
Tom Petty
M J
Zeppelin
Springsteen
Neil Young
Eagles
Ray Charles
Madonna
Chuck Berry
South Park TV Songs
Justin Timberlake
"Food Glorious Food"
"Twilight Zone" theme
"A Boy Named Sue"
"Night Moves"
"The Situation"
"Superbowl Shuffle"

  

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-DJ R-Tistic-
Member since Nov 06th 2008
51981 posts
Thu Jun-11-15 03:52 PM

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47. "It took me a while to understand why Suburban White kids loved"
In response to Reply # 46


  

          

Wu more than Black kids, especially in L.A. in 94. I realize that a lot of their overall imagery seems to cater to "nerds" a whole lot, even if the music itself was gutter.

------------------------------

50+ FREE Mixes on www.DJR-Tistic.com!

Twitter and Instagram - @DJ_RTistic

  

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Jakob Hellberg
Member since Apr 18th 2005
9766 posts
Thu Jun-11-15 05:37 PM

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49. "Actually..."
In response to Reply # 46


          


>
>2) all of his pop culture references were of the things you'd
>NEVER hear in the hood. i once saw a concert in which he sang
>BJ Thomas' "hey why dont you play one of those "somebody done
>somebody wrong song"---i was like "waitaminute!!!"

In an interview on swedish radio, he was going on about the Who and Janis Joplin and other stuff. Obviously, I know nothing about the "hood" and what people listen to there but I thought it was a bit strange because rappers at that time-as opposed to the post-Kanye era when it was suddenly cool to namedrop stuff from europe and sweden and Coldplay-rarely mentioned anything not "black" in terms of cultural status. That said, it doesn't beat Godfather Don talking about his love for norwegian black metal around the same time, that was just WTF?

  

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spidey
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13107 posts
Fri Jun-12-15 12:03 AM

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50. "RE: i been told y'all this since 1998"
In response to Reply # 46
Fri Jun-12-15 12:22 AM by spidey

  

          

So in other words, fraudulent? See if Quest says it, it's alright….Be easy y'all...

Integrity is the Cornerstone of Artistry...

  

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